Off Air... with Jane and Fi - The perils of balancing baked potatoes - with Professor Green

Episode Date: November 14, 2022

Jane and Fi talk eating lunch at your desk, extravagant gifts from love interests, and putting your golf balls in the dishwasher...And they're joined by rapper Professor Green to hear more about his work with the Post Office and British Gas to give advice on how to get through the cost-of-living crisis.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Producer: Kate LeeTimes Radio Producer: Rosie CutlerPodcast Executive Producer: Ben Mitchell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Hello and welcome to a brand new week on Off Air with me, Jane Garvey.

Oh, you've got your special brand new week voice. Yeah, well, I am quite chipper form. You are, aren't you? And me, Fee Glover. Now, I'm in chipper form because I love this time of year. She lied. It's gone down in degrees by about, what, five degrees, six degrees, seven degrees. I've got to say, it has that feel of proper November misery about it today. And it was a pea super of a day in London.

It was rich in murk, wasn't it? It really was, with those hints of a never-ending winter with no hope of spring. Well, that's cheered everybody up. But anyway, I actually was in... Welcome to the show! Welcome, welcome, welcome. I was in a moderately good mood.

I had a lovely lunch, which when I arrived back at my desk with it, because we are current, I mean, I don't know whether this is particularly nice, but eating at our desks. I don't think, I was very surprised the first day that we came in that we were allowed to do that. I'm not a big fan either, Jane. No, there is something about balancing a baked potato on your workstation. And I mean, obviously I did have it in packaging but I wasn't just putting a hot potato on my lap trying to stick it in my mouth no I'm a

little more sophisticated than that but today it was baked potato with um with cheese and leek sauce it was all beige chicken chicken and leek and cheese sauce was all beige, wasn't it? Oh no, a chicken, chicken and leek and cheese sauce. Yeah, it looked like, and I really like the food here in the canteen, but today it looked like they'd thought of making a pie and then at 8.30 someone had said, I can't be bothered to do the pastry, let's just serve the inside of it anyway. We'll stick this on the jackets. But anyway, you were enjoying it. I loved it.

That's good. No, honestly, it's absolutely carried me through the afternoon. You know how sometimes you start thinking, oh, fancy a biscuit about ten to four? Not a bit of it today. That's very, very good to know. Properly full. Lovely.

What is the most extravagant gift you've ever been given by a love interest? God, I think the... Do you know what the truth to that is? Please. I got a wheeler-long suitcase to take into maternity hospital. OK. Well, I can see why things panned out the way they did, to be honest. To be honest.

It was pretty much at that moment when I unwrapped it. Well, you won't be delighted then to hear about some of the shenanigans of just one of King Juan Carlos of Spain. I tell you what, he was a right Juan, wasn't he? He was. As we're discovering. Well, he had to Juan off because he had so many infidelities and financial

that they basically asked him to abdicate in favour of his son. So he's gone off to live in Abu Dhabi. But some of his girlfriends... I mean, that's nothing to see here,habi but some of his girlfriends are a little bit vociferous on their time with him and one of them and I'm going to go home and listen to this tonight called Karina Larson has made a podcast called Karina and the King in which she details some of the years that she spent with King Juan because he seemed to be very in love with her gave her a huge

emerald cut diamond ring at a candlelit dinner she knew that he was married and i'm interested in listening to the podcast he was the king so of course she'd know he was married but but i'm interested into listening to how she justifies that you know she she knows um from this article that i'm reading today that she really hurt his wife. She knows that. She met her. He'll have told her that his wife doesn't understand him. Or that they've got an open marriage and she's absolutely fine with it.

But I am intrigued by those stories of women brave enough to talk about infidelities and stuff with a very, very powerful man. And it just says at the end of this article, the release of the podcast coincides with the legal battle being fought out in the High Court in London,

brought by Larson against the Emeritus King. She claims that Juan Carlos put her under illegal surveillance in Britain as part of a long-running row over an alleged gift of 65 million euros. Right. It puts that wheeler-long suitcase into some sort of perspective, I've got to say. Then again, I don't think I was ever under surveillance. So, swings and roundabouts. Here, my darling, you're looking very beautiful tonight.

I've got you a little something. 65 million euros. The case continues. They've denied any wrongdoing. Yes, the case certainly does continue. Right. I'm just going to put in, I shouldn't do this really, but I just want to put in a theory of mine into the mix,

which Tony Adams has withdrawn from Strictly. Conspiracy theory klaxon. He's claiming to have an injury. Now, you know, he's a man of a certain vintage, and I think it's fair to say that, I think he's had some troubles with his health recently, so I certainly don't wish him any ill whatsoever. But the thing was, he was kept in strictly until this injury occurred

by the ferocious support of Arsenal anoraks, who were continuing to vote for him, which meant that he didn't ever... I think he's only just appeared in the dance-off, and he's really not very good compared to the other dancers. Anyway, he's now... he's seen reason, it would seem, or he genuinely has been injured and he has withdrawn from the competition.

Do you think he realised he had surpassed his talents in about week three? He didn't have any talents. They were all surpassed well before week one, I would i would say okay i think it's a bit of a shame that strictly has gone down the road of being so fanatical about dance i do genuinely think it was more fun when when it wasn't about when it was just popularity contest yeah people do say daft things don't they his his partner was uh who was it let me just find out do I bear with Akatia Jones Jones, 33, I'm reading from the Times here, Jones, 33, praised

Adams despite their low scores I loved us, she said I loved that we didn't care what people thought when we did every single dance our way Oh come on She's putting in a very respectable request

to be with a fit young person from Hollyoaks next year. Basically saying, give me the Hollyoaks honk when the 2023 season rolls around. Speaking of which, delighting me in the jungle at the moment is the lad from Hollyoaks, Owen. Owen. He is, and I don't mean this in any way disrespectful fashion. But, stand against something firm, everybody, but... He is, and I don't mean this in any way, disrespectful fashion. But, stand against something firm, everybody.

But, he is quite dim. What I like about him is that he knows it and he says of himself. Yes. I'm quite, I don't know anything about current affairs. I'm useless at spelling. I don't know the words. I can't add up. When they were trying to add up all of the ages in camp,

he said to camera, I'm so glad that I just wouldn't have been able to get there myself. And you think, well, it's not long division. You've got to wonder about the details, the finer details of his contract with Hollyoaks. And let's hope he has people in his corner. I'm sure he does. He seems like a lovely lad.

He's a lovely lad, and obviously his people have got him in the jungle. So it can't be all that daft, can they? Okay. Who was our top guest this afternoon? Because he was interesting, wasn't he? I'm sure he does. He seems like a lovely lad. He's a lovely lad and obviously his people have got him in the jungle, so can't be all that daft, can they? OK, who was our top guest this afternoon? Because he was interesting, wasn't he? He was really interesting. So our top guest was Professor Green, who is best known as a rap artist,

but he's also done a lot of work on mental health. I think he's a cracker of a bloke. And now he's teaming up with the Post Office and British Gas to try and give some good advice about how to get through the current cost of living crisis. We asked why he got involved with this campaign, bearing in mind that a lot of people think British Gas are the problem, not the solution to it. Seemingly to people, but I'm here to talk on behalf of the British Gas Energy Trust, which is an independent charitable trust. on behalf of the British Gas Energy Trust, which is an independent charitable trust. I can't speak for British Gas. And the reason I was willing to take part in this primarily is because I think there's a lot of people that need to access support that have no idea there is even any support out there that they can access,

whether that's for previous and existing energy debt, debt that they're scared they're wandering into, even if it's just for the need for it. So basically, British gas and post office have teamed up to to launch british gas and post office pop-ups it's the second phase which is upscaled they hope to have 40 pop-ups in place in 23 locations by january and it's somewhere that the british gas energy trust are supporting local charity charities local independent charities that already exist in these communities so it's not not just, you know, British Gas and Post Office landing in a community and expecting people to trust them. They're supporting charities that already exist in these communities to further support people in the communities who need help the most.

OK, I'm sorry. Sorry, I was just going to say for me, being able to use my voice for something other than myself is quite important. I've done it for quite a long time, especially, as you mentioned, around mental health, not least of all because of my history with it. It's plagued my family. My dad took his own life. His brother took his own life two years before. And, you know, with something like energy debt comes, with any debt, comes shame, right? And shame leads to feelings of

worthlessness to isolation and when that happens people are not going to reach out for the support that they can access and things manifest when you know when you're isolated and left to your own devices things get worse and worse when they stay between your ears well that is the toughest thing isn't it you have to self-identify as someone who's struggling and needs help which for the first time ever there's people you know perhaps not the first time ever but a lot of people for the first time ever even in dual income households are finding themselves in situations where they're having to access food banks in order to be able to provide food for their family despite both of them working there's this like archetypal image of someone who is going through

poverty and it's not accurate it's completely inaccurate you've of someone who is going through poverty, and it's not accurate. It's completely inaccurate. You've got people who work to earn their poverty, who work. My nan, when I was growing up, listen, I'm not here pleading poverty, by the way, right? I'm in a really privileged situation, but that's not how I grew up. I was born to my mother, who was 16. My dad was 18. My mom still lived at home.

There was actually six of us in a three-bedroom flat when i was born um and you know i experienced secondhand by way of of my nan who became my legal guardian energy debt there wasn't the term energy debt then there was no apparent energy crisis it was just debt and hard times um my nan worked three jobs a day and we still lived in poverty um and i think it's quite scary especially for people that have you know because there's a lot My nan worked three jobs a day and we still lived in poverty. And I think it's quite scary, especially for people that have, you know, because there's a lot to be said for people that I grew up around on my estate. If this was the pop up, it would just be something else that we have to handle. I think there's something to be said for people that are used to encountering these kinds of stresses. Not that it's a pleasant life, but they're better versed in how to handle such stress.

Whereas people that have never encountered poverty before all of a sudden thrust into a situation which they don't understand. Yeah, that's such a good point to make, actually, the people who move into that kind of space that, as you've alluded to, you know a lot about. Can you just describe for us what it's like as a kid to know that you're in a family which is struggling to decide between heating and eating I think it's that kind of personal experience that we just can't hear enough

about at the moment in order to get home to people like Jane and I who to be honest we are we are hopefully empathetic but we are never going to really understand what that feels like firstly I think empathy is all important. I don't think people necessarily have to understand in order to empathise and in order to help. It's important that people are empathetic. How does it feel as a child growing up in a household where there is money troubles and struggles and hard times?

It feels horrible and selfishly. My nan was going through a hell of a lot more than I was. But as a product of that, I was a byproduct of that. I was anxious. I was stressed. I was taking on all of that in the household. You know, my nan was coming home after working three jobs a day. And with hindsight, I understand now why she would be tired,

why she would be upset, why she would seem to be angry at the littlest things. It's because she was exhausted. She was stressed. There was never any let up. There wasn't any period of her day where she was able to sit down and even take a breath. And there was no British Gas Post Office pop up. There was no support. There was no one to phone. There was no one to go and see in the local community to sit down and talk to by people that she knew if she had the time to do it. And that's why I think it's really important that people do understand there is support out there and that they access that support rather than hiding. It's a sad thing, you know, people see a letter from perhaps British Gas

to inform them about grants of up to £1,600 for existing energy debt that they don't open because they're so petrified to open a bill to find out that they owe more money. Do you think that perhaps back when you were growing up that there was more support from neighbours and from the wider community? Do you think people were keener to help each other out back then? I don't know if they were keener. I just think there was less division.

I think it was a much more open-door policy. There was, I mean, disparity didn't seem to be as prominent as what it does. It feels overgrown now. Everyone says to me, oh, Hackney's a really nice area. And I find that kind of funny because when I was growing up there, you quite literally couldn't pay people to live there. Whereas now it's, you know, a revolving door if you ever can afford the rent. Unless, of course, you're growing up on an estate there

where it's probably worse to be growing up in Hackney now than it was when I grew up there. What, you think levels of deprivation are worse than in in your youth and childhood? Um I do yeah and I think there's also when I talk about disparity it's the gentrification that's taken place which of course offers more jobs and opportunity but how many people can actually afford to frequent the new shops and you know when I was my dad worked in a green grocers when I was growing up we shopped in the greengrocers the butchers and the fishmongers because we didn't have much money nowadays if look at victoria park in hackney it's got a fishmongers and it's got butchers and it's got greengrocers that you have to be on a relatively high wage to even consider shopping

that because it's so expensive and now because of those things it's called victoria park village yes there's always a village there's a lot of people having their nose pushed up against the window. That's a pretty harsh reality, if you ask me. What would you do if you were in charge to try and bridge that gap? Or is it not actually up to people who are in charge? It's up to all of us to actually join in, see what's in front of us. I really like the second part of that question. The first part was edging towards politics and I'm not a politician and it was a huge question which I'm quite nervous of

because I don't have the answers. As far as the second part is it up to all of us yes I think the problem is that people look at poverty as a problem for those who suffer it like so many things when actually it's a societal problem that affects all of us. But it's, I mean, don't get me wrong, the results of it are anything but perfect. But to me, it seems like somewhat of a perfect storm. We've still got the hangover from COVID and everything that that brought about. And we're now hit

with a completely different set of problems. But again, something that most people probably haven't encountered in their lifetime. people probably haven't encountered in their lifetime. breakfast with anna from 10 to 11 and get on with your day accessibility there's more to iphone you're listening to off air with jane and fee and we've been speaking today to professor green we rather cheekily asked him what he's a professor of um so i'm not a real professor yeah sorry guys a bit like dr fox he's not a doctor not several other things but anyway you know for the amount of times no it was funny i've never made me laugh i've never no one's ever said that for the amount of times i've said it's a bit like dr fox he's not a doctor i've never had anyone say a noisy fox um so you did

make me laugh it was funny i think it was yeah yeah i don't i don't actually want to make any humor about that man because i think no we'll move on very swiftly yes yes yes sorry no no no please don't worry please don't worry at all. Just before we talk a little bit more about your other work, can you just let people know how they would be able to access the British Gas Energy Trust and Post Office collaboration that is happening imminently? Definitely. Beyond popping down to your local post office to find out if there is a pop-up in your area,

you can also find British Gas and Post Office on Twitter and Facebook to find out if there's a British Gas Post Office pop-up happening near you. Okay and just to your point about people who are experiencing a kind of a shame and feelings that they haven't experienced before what would you what advice would you give to them when they walk in you know and they're nervous about asking for help and stuff just a little pointer as to what they might have in their heads good thing about accessing one of these pop-ups is that as i said before it's charities that already exist in these areas that deal with people in these communities day in day out even if what you need is just respite a place to go and talk to someone about everything that is occurring that you think you may be on top of but you want to make sure some people don't get the space in their day to even do that um and so what you can

expect is to walk into a place where you can talk privately and in confidence with someone who can help you with anything that you're worrying about around your energy debt energy crisis cost of living crisis there's so many types of debt whether it's data poverty or energy poverty. It just seems like there is just so much at the moment. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for that. I was just thinking in terms of your own life, you're a relatively recent dad, aren't you?

I am, yeah. He's 20 months old tomorrow and I cannot wait until he turns two so i don't have to talk in months anymore yes said i would never talk in weeks and then i've been never talking months and lo and behold i've done both right well i was going to say to you you're through the worst it's not true uh because you're nowhere near the teenagers but um on the whole how has it been for you i noticed actually that I think there's a panorama on tonight about male mental health after a child is born,

which perhaps it's not panorama, but there's certainly a TV show on tonight. I'll find out exactly what it is and where it is. But this is something that a lot of men do struggle with, isn't it? I mean, women struggle too, but men don't do without suffering at this time. Not at all. i started an instagram based around that to be honest and just to try and give a more real and honest account around

parenting called the unlikely dad's club um obviously women are not just welcome they're encouraged to join in as well because we need open conversation in order to to help things be better and help people be better prepared when i was first one of the first walks i went on with my son slimane in the pram um a dad shouted out to me congratulations from the other side of the road i went cheers you're welcome to the truth club what you want about you know don't worry you'll find out and i did find out very quickly um and i definitely struggled at points and you know I'm hoping I'm through the worst of that now. But, you know, not just because of childhood trauma and things that happened in my past and my dad not being present and then my dad not being alive. And all of the things that I thought I'd already processed and dealt with that then had to deal with a different aspect of when my son was born because they will come flooding back.

But because of really seemingly obvious things like the sleep deprivation which makes it hard to rationalize it can cause friction between you and your partner you're both trying to do everything instead of tag teaming which is a great bit of advice someone gave us a little way down the line um it's difficult if i was to explain it in two words it's wonderful and stressful and it's more wonderful than it is stressful but it is blimmin stressful and people can be stressful and people are scared to say that because they don't want anyone to think that they might that maybe they shouldn't have had a kid or maybe they it's completely normal to be stressed and all the things that people get stressed about

generally are unspoken about because everyone just wants to walk around saying oh my god it changed my entire life 100% by default it changes your entire life because you have you have another person to consider in absolutely all of your decisions but it it doesn't just change your life and make it giddy and happy all of the time that's that's not that's not parenting it's not for the faint-hearted and there's a kind of caricature as well of the new dad, which I think a lot of people would would now regard as really unhelpful. You know, it's the kind of useless person, you know, fainting in the delivery room, doesn't know what to do. Spare part in the household and all that kind of stuff.

It must feel quite hard to be on the receiving end of that, to be honest. Yeah. I've literally been, and this has been really fortunate, it's definitely time to get back to work, and that coincides with Suleiman about to start nursery. But being a stay-at-home dad, I've met a lot of fathers who are in the same situation, some of who, you know, forwent their job so as their partner could go back to work after they'd finished breastfeeding.

And so they were doing what people still in our society sadly would consider to be the woman's job which is entirely unhelpful because then what you get is oh you help the mum out as if you're not a parent you're both parents you don't help your partner out you look after your child you're both parents it doesn't like that to me is just crazy talk like you're not just an add-on. You're not just help. You're a parent. Yeah. But, you know, this isn't taught, is it?

It's never discussed at school. You're just left to blunder through it. And yes, and you do. But I tell you what, by hook or by crook, generally I think you do blunder your way through it. And because my son was born in COVID, we didn't have any support network whatsoever um my i don't you know my mum wasn't close enough my man is elderly now my partner's

mother was a frontline worker and her sister was a frontline worker so all of the people that would have otherwise been support for us couldn't be we couldn't access play groups we couldn't access child care any of those things so it was just us and it was really really difficult but in the time since those things have been available to us and play groups have been open going to play groups and just being able to know that if your child walks over to the other corner there's another parent watching and you can spend those hours while they're playing and they're engaging with other children in a healthy fashion as they should be you can stand there and just complain to another parent if you want and it really helps it's it's bliss it's what

many many female friendships have been built on for years you feel like you're in it exactly you feel like you're in it alone at times and you're really not and i just wish that we would have had access to more of that because i think it would have done both of you know both the health of our relationship and separately our mental health the world of good that is professor green as we determined there thanks to our wonderful interviewing not a real professor uh his real name is steven isn't it i actually forgot what his real name was so i addressed him i think at the beginning as Professor. I've had a really bad day because on the way to the studio, I tripped over my headphone cable as John Pienaar was doing his extremely important and assertive introduction to his show.

It's a sign of John's enormous professionalism that he just carried on as if nothing had happened. It was wonderful. Picked yourself up off the floor. I sometimes wonder whether it's those moments that are caught on camera in our new world of videoing radio. I suspect not. Just the sight of me going arse over tit and my determination to get out of the studio as quickly as possible and onto my next mug of tea.

There was quite a funny clip this weekend that was circulated by Times Radio, which was Kate McCann doing a very good interview with Jeremy Hunt. I don't think that Times Radio realised when they put it out that she just started yawning halfway through his first answer. It was quite a good look. Wendy has emailed. What is the email address? It is janeandfee at times.radio. Hello from Herefordshire,

says Wendy. I moved over to subscribe to Off Air with 20 episodes to catch up. I am now caught up and of course, Jamie Oliver and Jess Phillips MP are the ones I've enjoyed the most so far. Best wishes on your new career endeavours. You've given me hope as I too am having a career move from

a 20-year NHS business administrator role into the county's charity sector. We 50 year olds can do it. Insert a US Rosie the Riveter emoji, she says. Goodness knows when we will retire. In 1989, it was 60 when I started working at Hammersmith Hospital. Kind regards, Wendy. Yes, you know, change is possible as you get older, although I'd be the first to acknowledge, Wendy, that I'm 58 and I find change really difficult. But you've done very well with this, haven't you?

Well, I'm really enjoying myself now, but I can't pretend that it wasn't a bit tricky to start with. New stuff is just hard when you get older. And how do you feel about the fact that 20 years ago you would have been expected to retire in a year and a half's time well because i've got i have friends who are sort of you know on that road and some have sort of already tentatively dipped their toes into the water it is interesting isn't it my mum certainly retired at 61 62 i i it doesn, I don't know how I could begin to fill my days. I genuinely don't know. And also, I'm really fortunate and feel healthy,

and I've got a certain amount of intellectual curiosity. Only a certain amount. You've got between three and five. To be honest, your balance isn't great. No, my balance isn't what it is. I do that thing at Pilates where you stand on one leg, though, and I thought I was getting quite good at that, but I'm afraid this afternoon slightly knocked my confidence in that area.

But no, you wouldn't be able to fill your time if you weren't working, would you? Good God, no. No, I'm actually rather grateful that the retirement age has gone up. I mean, I need it as well. I need to carry on working. I don't know anybody who's actually in a strong enough financial position, especially at the moment, to consider living off the state pension. I'm not sure anybody in this country does.

Dear Jane and Fi, your previous podcast took me through a divorce, selling my home, a new relationship, buying a new home, what felt like 32 prime ministers, and the death of the queen. It's been quite a journey and I'm pleased to have had you as company along the way. I previously wrote in on a subject I won't disclose here as I was anonymous. But I wanted to say hello again as I lie on a sun lounger in 27 degree heat on the Tel Aviv beach. on a sun lounger in 27 degree heat on the Tel Aviv beach. Currently listening to Jane's weekend of rain, laundry and Sainsbury's shopping.

And after two weeks here in the sun, I'm actually quite looking forward to getting back home to rainy England. So do please spare a thought for your poor listeners who are having to endure this heat and the endless supply of hummus whilst you do your laundry. Loving the new podcast and radio show, I'm very pleased i get to listen to you every day now take care ariel he him ariel is a male name in hebrew thought i'd clarify thank you for that ariel thank you very much yeah every level yeah endless supply of

hummus i i there are times when i i want hummus and other times when frankly i'll be glad never i wouldn't want an endless supply unfortunately for me it belongs in exactly the same box as pesto on pasta and carrot sticks and there was just too many of them in the middle class childhood of my children and i cannot go there with any of those ingredients ever again right well that's gosh i mean you've said some pretty controversial things within my earshot fee Phoebe. You've done it now. You really have. Cucumber sticks as well. Oh, God. Tipped you over the edge there.

Cucumber sticks. Did you go and collect your kids from nursery? With a snack. Yes. I'm that type of mum. Yeah, no, I did too. I remember, do you know, I was stopped once in the street by a, I mean, I'm going to say it, by a nosy old biddy.

Because I was walking my daughter back from nursery and she liked a particular form of brown, a balm cake, as we called it up north, you know, a bap. Yeah. It's funny, in the English language and in parts of the British Isles, what you call a small bread thing does vary depending on where you are. Roll, bap, bun, barm cake, all of these. Anyway, there she was gnawing away on a granary bap. And a woman, an old biddy lady, said, I was a disgraceful woman and a disgrace to motherhood for feeding my children confectionery and allowing them to eat it in the street.

What did she think it was? I said i said madam it is an organic roll did she think it was just a great big marshmallow i think she thought it was a big sort of chocolatey bit of confectionery when it was an organic granary roll honestly fee i still think about that obviously you do but i'm very glad that you've uh you've managed to achieve some kind of catharsis by the retelling of that anecdote. I should go on Oprah with that story, shouldn't I? She'd say, thank you for sharing. Now look under your seat.

You'll find a bab. You've won a car. Chris says, Jane, just a tip. If you put your golf balls in the cutlery holder in the dishwasher, they come out like new. Thank you very much, Chris. I'm worried about that, but I'm going to save that worry for another day do you want to do a very very quick reading from craig brown's book and then we'll say goodbye i only wanted to mention uh craig brown is obviously a fantastic writer and a brilliant satirist and he's got a new

compilation of his many columns and books um no his many columns actually this he's written other books oh shut up jay right this is called Haywire, the best of Craig Brown. And there is a chapter which is about In Our Time, the very cerebral Radio 4 show hosted by Mel B, Melvin Bragg. And this particular chapter is about an edition of In Our Time dedicated to the concept of flogging a dead horse. And honestly, I suppose you have to be a bit of a Radio 4 anorak to find it funny. But Melvin's in the chair and his guests are Jeff Beardy,

Professor of Applied EMV Studies at Queen's College, Oxford. Lynn Nervy, Visiting Fellow in the History of Equine Applications at the University of Surrey. And Gervais Hedge, Professor of Equine Linguistics at University College London. Anyway, he's managed to write about, I don't know, 1,500, 2,000 words on this pretend. On flogging a dead horse. On flogging a dead horse.

On flogging a dead horse and the way Mel B and guests would tackle it. Oh, dear. We've both got the giggles today. I got the giggles very unfortunately, Joan, in our conversation about the donation of our bodies as medical research specimens, Asia and I, because I thought you were going to start on you're my universities better than your university.

And I think that the universities that we might send our bodies off to wouldn't really be graded in the same way, would they? I would insist on a tour of the mortuary areas at any university inclined to accept my dead body. OK. I don't think that's unreasonable. Actually, I've got to be honest, I admire those who do leave their bodies to science.

unreasonable. Actually, I've got to be honest, I admire those who do leave their bodies to science. I don't think many people would want to gather around my small apartment or anything else. What could they make of it? No, I don't. I don't fancy it. I don't know why this is so funny. It isn't. And it's just making me laugh right yottam otolenghi yes uh he of the enormous spice cupboard and very imaginative cooking brain is our guest tomorrow i cannot wait i do hope he's not on zoom and he's actually bringing something in with him and dig ables on the program tomorrow doing hero or villain yeah i mean the mighty stick yes and yottam surely will have a view on hummus oh my good lord i hope he doesn't listen to this first. Well, I think we all hope nobody listens to this.

But anyway, those of you who are listening to Off Air with Jane and V, we really hugely appreciate it. It's going great guns. Tell your friends if they're missing the other podcast, this one is now the place to be. Are you going to keep in touch with Melvin? Well, Melvin Bragg. Of course I am.

I'm very, very very very very very dear friends you have been listening to off air with jane garvey and fee glover our times radio producer is rosie cutler and the podcast executive producer is Ben Mitchell. Now you can listen to us on the free Times Radio app or you can download every episode from wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget that if you like what you heard and thought, hey, I want to listen to this, but live,

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