Off Air... with Jane and Fi - The Ponder On That think tank (with Alan Cumming)

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

Jane and Fi have been sent some cheese - the King's choice of cheese, which of course gets them on to more royal chat... they also manage to cover Vera, male pets and loud restaurants. Actor and comedian Alan Cumming chats to Fi about his one man show 'Alan Cumming Is Not Acting His Age'. Tickets are available now. Plus, all this week on their Times Radio show, Jane and Fi will focus on pornography and the impact it has. If you want to follow along with this conversation, make sure you're tuning into Times Radio every day this week at 4:20pm. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Eve SalusburyTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. That's a very strong smell of cheese.

It's a very powerful smell of cheese. That's because we were sent some cheese by... I don't think we're allowed to say, but thank you very much, though. Lovely people at Mm-Mm and Mm-Mm who also delivered to the King. Do they? Yes. So even as we speak, they might be settling down for a chunk of that cheddar.

Well, we're learning some quite interesting things about the King and Queen from Robert Hardman's new autobiography. And Robert's going to be on the programme on Thursday, which means that... Is it this Thursday, Eve? Yeah. Is it? OK. We've got our preview copies of the book.

Right. Well, gosh. That's Wednesday cancelled, isn't it? Well, I don't want to. It's a chunky book. I'm hurrying home to enjoy it. But he has revealed some little tidbits already, one of them being that the Queen possibly wasn't thrilled about Harry and Meghan calling their daughter Lilibet but the one that I really, really love

is the apparent, alleged shall we say, nickname for Camilla before she became Queen she was called by her family, her close family Lorraine not after Arloraine

listening to this at home or wherever you are our Lorraine you know host of the early morning fantastic sofa thing if you don't live in the UK Lorraine Kelly she's absolutely, she's queen of the

daytime TV sofas and she's been doing that show for 475 years and she doesn't look like she has. She's fresh every day. She's from Dundee. Yep. But it's not that Lorraine, it's La Rain. It's sort of half funny.

E-I-N-E. Is it half funny? I don't think it's brilliant. I think it's quite a nice, I think it's quite a nice kind of nugget of normal. Yeah, I had a conversation once with her son. What, Lorraine Kelly? No, the Queen.

Oh, OK. It went as follows. Can I take that chair? I said, yes, you can. Right. But I bet he was polite. Very polite. Absolutely.

Yeah, he was very polite. He was in a pub in Shepherd's Bush. That's nice. There we go. Right, so it is Tuesday, and it's, can I just say, London has been enjoying the most perfect winter's weather, hasn't it?

So it's cold. It's very cold. Really cold, but brilliant sunshine, wonderful blue sky, everything just looks magnifico. And I don't mind, I mean, you know, I can afford my heating bills, that's okay. I don't mind the cold when it looks like this. And I don't mind. I mean, you know, I can afford my heating bills. That's OK.

I don't mind the cold when it looks like this. It's brilliant. But it's those days when it's just savage, unremitting, freezing rain and grey skies that I can't live without. Yeah. No, I mean, who does? If there's anybody out there who wakes up in a dreary, grey morning and goes, yay! Yay! Yay! Oh, is that quite unusual?

Fun times. To feel like that. The big fat fox was back on our artificial grass the other day. First thing in the morning I noticed. That's horrible. It's odd. But also, the West London parakeets are back. Oh, aren't they just?

They are all over the place. I saw quite a few of them on my neighbour's roof the other morning. And these are the parakeets that are... I mean, it's a myth, I think, escaped from Ealing Studios because of the film The African Queen. I think that is... Is that a myth? I think that is a myth, but it's lovely.

Yeah, and their descendants still cheerily fly around the London area. I probably think Bert and Bertha were keeping some parakeets and one flew out the window. So a friend of mine, Petra, she found a canary in the street. A little canary or budgerigar. What? Someone had dumped a canary?

Yeah, in the street. It obviously just escaped or whatever. And she took it home. This has a happy ending, this story, because I can't deal with any heartbreak. She took it home and claw has a happy ending, this story, because I can't deal with any heartbreak. She took it home and Claude, the name that they gave the budgerigar Canary, has been a very happy addition to their family for I think about four years now.

But isn't that a lovely thing to do? Because I suspect if I saw Canary in the street, I probably wouldn't try and catch it and take care of it and take it home. Well, I wouldn't be able to. Did she catch it? Encase it in her hands? Yes.

Hands. Yep. She just stayed with it until it was calm enough to be able to... Be scooped up. Be scooped up. And Claude has lived a lovely life with them. He's quite often flying free.

Yes. My gran used to do that with her budgie I was never entirely at ease with that well I mean the obvious question is yeah well quite yeah

are they you know is that a piece of black pepper on my eggs or is it Claude's poop so yeah I mean I've not been to dinner since but it's a lovely story

well done very very positive. Have you seen the story in the Times today? Young miss out when older colleagues work from home. No. Are you delighting in the fact that the older people have won something, Jane? This is the Education Secretary, a lady called Gillian Keegan, who was speaking at an event run by a think tank.

I think you and I, when we retire from broadcasting, we should establish a think tank. It's a good idea. What would we call it? Well, let's ponder on that. Okay, we'll put that on the back. Why don't we just call it that? Ponder on that.

Speaking at an event run by the ponder on that think tank. It works. Keegan said, Employees learn a great deal from seeing meetings and seeing how things are done. Oh, how true that is. I worry about a big... What?

Asked whether she was worried about young people not learning from their seniors, Keegan said, I do worry about it, although I think it's shifting a little bit back to an equilibrium. You can go into an office like this and there's virtually nobody there,

she says, speaking to a very small audience presumably stuck it into the room just discovered to our horror that no one had rocked up don't worry darling i'm sure it was being broadcast online so you're all right but no the young people they pick up something from us every single day don't they they do you can feel they sometimes don't show it but you sense that they're aware that we've said something with little dollop of wisdom, which they're just going to squirrel away and use on another occasion. Yes. I really believe I have to believe that.

I have to. So I think sometimes, you know, when there's a bit of a kind of pause in the conversation and somebody's looking at a screen, I think I could pretty much guarantee they're just looking up something we've said because it just makes so little sense to them. Some kind of name or some TV reference. And they're thinking I need to Google that. But that's fair enough. You didn't watch Gladiators, did you? No, I didn't watch Gladiators. It's rubbish the first time. I'm not going to watch it now.

So I've got on the TV deck at the moment, Traitors is being watched. Vera's being watched. But I think there were only two Veras. No, I think there's a couple more. Okay. So they're okay. They're not as good as peak Vera.

Joe's back. Joe's back and heavily bearded. And Vera had a toothache in the one I watched last night. To be honest, I haven't actually finished it, but I thought it was rather a good plot. Anyway, that reminds me. Somebody I mentioned last night. To be honest, I haven't actually finished it, but I thought it was rather a good plot. Anyway, that reminds me, somebody I mentioned last week, and I'm sorry I lost the email,

that I was reading God in Ruins by Kate Atkinson, which is an amazing book. But it does have a significantly weird ending, which I hadn't been expecting. Someone wrote in to say, will you please tell us what you think of the ending when you get to it? Well, I got to it on Saturday on a train.

I actually, there was a woman sitting opposite me with curlers in, which is, I mean, nothing wrong with that. She was obviously on her way to a big night out in London. I was getting a train back from Liverpool on Saturday evening. You do see that quite a lot. People are getting ready for a night. And I just wanted to go

over to her and say, oh my God, you won't believe this. I've just finished. But I don't think she'd have been that interested so I didn't tell her but it's an incredible end to that book so highly recommended but it does leave you let's say thinking okay that's good to know

I think Kate Atkinson is one of those writers who can do that because you know sometimes when there's a very very very surprising ending and you actually just think you couldn't think of anything else to put there so you've done something weird welcome it's at all been a dream yeah um we should mention if we're talking about books uh that book club number four it is underway it's helen thurston's an elderly lady is up to no good uh it's quite a short book so some of you have already submitted your reviews. My copy has slightly yet to arrive

but then I'll be Are we meant to organise these ourselves? I'm a very busy lady I think they're on their way But keep all of your thoughts coming in and we'll talk about it in about a month's time. I need to cough Do you know what it's the free cheese? It's finally come back to haunt me.

I'm carrying my Stilton home with me on the train, and obviously it's been out of its bag for quite some time now. Will I be popular, do you think? Well, you go home on quite a busy line, so I think that's a good thing. People will move away from you. You've got a blue cheese. It's not a pleasant smell at all.

No, I love it though. It's one of those things as you get older, you realise you're drawn to these very strong tastes that would have utterly revolted you when you were younger. But there's something about heavily veined blue cheese. It reminds me of my legs. I think, oh, yes. Nice.

Yeah. My legs. My varicose veins. Oh, dear. Oh, Lord. Nice. Yeah. My legs. My varicose veins. Oh, dear. Oh, Lord. Don't say that. Right. Are you back in the room?

I'm back in the room. It's because I've just started one of my Nicolton minis. Yeah. I didn't realise how smug I sounded, says Anonymous, when I wrote about staying in a castle for Christmas. Sorry about that. Listen, we're not... I thought it was very impressive, actually.

I should have added context, she says, which is that I was the listener who wrote in before Christmas and was worried about getting through yet another one without my family, or any family, she says. Cancelling the whole idea of it and having something to look forward to for New Year instead was quite transformative for me, she says. So we absolutely in no way thought you sounded smug.

Honestly, we were just jealous. And I'm really glad you had a decent Christmas. She goes on to say on this topic of porn, which you're discussing this week, I've just never watched it. That's not interesting in itself. But the thing I find weird is that absolutely nobody believes me, even though it's completely true. Is that unusual? I've got a good visual imagination and it's just never appealed to me. No, I absolutely believe her. Well, I believe you too. And I don't think it's unusual.

I think especially in our generation, it's not unusual at all. I suppose that's one of the reasons why we're talking about it now, because it just seems to be a norm for our kids now. not unusual at all i suppose that's one of the reasons why we're talking about it now because it just seems to be a norm for our kids now so you know a big thing has changed but anne who says anne from somerset here i've been a loyal listener since the early days in the other place have occasionally thought about writing him but haven't but your call for anyone to contact you who's not used porn or felt the need to use it made me think especially as for the first time it made me think I don't want to listen to discussion on this subject but it's good to open the mind so I will listen despite feeling uncomfortable. I've never used porn I don't understand why people do and perhaps I will be enlightened how anyone male or

female who respects human life can think porn is acceptable is a mystery to me. For me, it's a bit like drugs. Not sure where or how to use it. And Anne goes on to say, Your podcast often makes me realise what a great life I have, but equally has also made me ask myself, Am I boring? What have I been doing with my life? But I have a great life.

It's not always been easy and it's needed hard work. I'm married to the same chap, have been for 32 years. I a lovely home me good health him okayish health we are by choice child free i've had good work-life balances with successful careers so no real money worries as we graduate into retirement i'm 60 next year am i easily satisfied or naive or generally should we all stop wanting everything? Be kinder and have respect for all. I'm no saint, but I do think as a nation we need a reset. Now, do you know what, Anne?

I think that's a great email. Yes, I thought it was just so lovely. And of course you're not easily satisfied or naive or boring or haven't done anything with the life. What a lovely, lovely life to have led. And I'm sure that you have come across lots of things because, you know, your reference have been challenges along the way. And maybe you're one of those wonderful people who haven't dwelt on the challenges and have cracked on and really relished all of the good things. But honestly, you know, I'm envious of that life. I think that sounds absolutely lovely. And to not hugely regret any choices, I think, is a great place to be.

Fantastic. And it's really lovely that you wrote in with that. Yeah. And I don't think that she's alone. I hope she isn't. I think there are loads of us. She's married. She's a happily married woman.

I'm a deeply dull individual myself, and I embrace it. I mean, honestly, I've got to... This evening, I've got... Trust me, she really is. No, I know. This evening, I've got... She's not making it up for effect. I'm absolutely not.

Some people are a bit affected. Not me. Not in this department. Anyway, I've got relatively clean sheets. I've got Robert Hardman's book to read. You've got all of your cardboard cutouts of your previous presenter friends downstairs in your basement. And I've got beans onman's book to read You've got all of your cardboard cutouts of your previous presenter friends downstairs in your basement. And I've got beans on toast for tea

Lovely. So I mean I think we need, Anne, it was Anne wasn't it? That capacity for contentment is hugely underrated and she mustn't berate herself because she's got no interest in porn Good luck to her That's great

I completely agree and your contentment is different to other people's contentment. Yeah, because we're all different. So when you realise that that is the sensation you're having, stop. Because that's it. It's just as good as it gets. It really is.

Can we do another? I love this. This is from Ali. Ladies, your wolf whistle story. I was once walking to work past a rowdy building site filled with blokes. But of course, I steeled myself. I just knew something was going to happen. They'd call out or hassle me or tease me as I went past. That didn't happen, actually. Instead, one of them said, you have the most beautiful hair. And that was it. Sorry.

I love listening from Sydney, says Ali. Australia, that's in Australia. Thank you. Two women on air, she says, sad it's so revolutionary. I always say when male journalists get to 40, they stop asking questions and start making statements. Unfair, but a little true. Ali, I have to be honest and say that I

don't think you can just apply that to male journalists. I think a lot of us have the, let's say, the ability to overstuff our questions with just our sheer knowledge. I know I do that, and I'm very, very aware of it. So, Ali, I do think women do that too. I just want to own it. Terry lived in Tokyo for two years in the early 2000s. And at that time, Westerners were still a kind of novelty there. And quite regularly, Japanese people would compare people to famous Western people they knew of.

My Japanese boss once said to me, and I still don't know if she meant it as a compliment, you look a lot like Emma Thompson. Att, attractive, but not at all sexy. I've never known entirely how to take that, especially as I really don't look anything like Emma Thompson. And at the time the comment was made, there's about 15 years difference between me and Emma. Anyway, it does always make me laugh, although I never did think think I was sexy I do think often this confirmed it for me I love your podcast in a house of three

teenage sons and a husband this is often my reliable female input of the day do you want I would really love to hear from more women who live in all male households I think that is is such a thing and And just amongst friends, a couple of friends who have exactly that combination, actually, four men and them, I know at times in their lives they found that really challenging. Yes, well, you want to get my sister on this subject. Has she got all men?

Two sons, husband, and I'm going to say a quite unattractive cat called Percy. God, you see, she could have got a female. Why didn't she get a female cat? I don't know. I don't know. That's really interesting because when I got Nance, the dog, the greyhound, I was absolutely, absolutely certain

I was not going to have... I just... It was just too much. I didn't want another penis in the house. So, I think Emma Thompson's very sexy, so I would take that as a compliment because I think she was wrong to say that you weren't sexy, but also that is quite funny when someone says

that you look like someone who you really don't look like at all. Well, you do know, don't you, that the very good studio engineer we had the other day thought that you and I were sisters? Yes. I do know that. I don't know which one of us was more upset. I don't know.

I was delighted. Premium bonds. Thank you for your wonderful show on Times Radio and the fantastic podcast, says Melissa. Now, how can you get our Times Radio show, Jane? Well, thank you very much indeed for asking and I'm here to furnish you with the relevant information. Times Radio is available

on DAB, digital radio, on all good radio sets. You just twiddle your knob until you get to T. Now that comes after, it's a long way away from some of the other radio stations, isn't it? Alphabetically speaking. T for Times. So you have to go

to the end of the line. I like to think of it as kind of Uxbridge. Upminster. It's Upminster on the district line. That's where you'll find Times Radio. That's about right, isn't it? It is right. But you can also just download the Times Radio app and you can listen for free.

And I think that's slightly simpler. It doesn't cost you anything to listen to Times Radio on the Times Radio app. It also gives you access on the unique dial, relatively unique, to other of Wireless Group's radio stations. Yes, so you can flick through tunes and all sorts, talk sports here. Talk sport, and some of them will play Toto's Africa. Da-da-da-da-da-da, Serengeti.

That's strange. The worst song ever. I don't This rains. The worst song ever. I don't think it is the worst song ever. It bloody well is. It is. It is the worst song ever. Back to premium bonds. A subject we discussed in our new Money Matters slot

on Monday with Adam Shaw. I think Under the Moon of Love by Shawada Waddy is the worst song ever. Dance Yourself Dizzy by Liquid Gold. That's pretty shit. You'll be here a while. That is pretty shit. Thank you.

Anyway, back to Melissa on the subject of premium bonds. I did a show called Whose Baby when I was 10 in 1976. Now, I remember this show. I think it was ITV or as we called it in those days, The Other Side. I did a show called Whose Baby When I Was 10 in 1976. My mum is an actress and was well known at the time. I'd love to know who her mum is or was. My payment for this appearance was 10 quid's worth of premium bonds. I mean, that's not desperately generous. Even in 76, that's not particularly generous, is it? All my life i've

checked in on them i agree with you i love checking that website and app to see if i've won but i never have i'll always remember my time on who's baby and i live in hope that one day the bonds will come through for me imagine if they did they might what was the premise of who's baby is that like an early jeremy kyle no it was, no, no, it was nothing to do with you're the fight, take a DNA. No, it was a gentle show. I was joking. Yeah, no, it was a gentle show.

And I'm wondering, was it Derek Beatty who presented it, who was a man who was a very nice Geordie accent and he also did Mr and Mrs. Yes. And I always remember this. My mum and dad once took part in a Mr and Mrs contest at the local cricket club. They did so badly.

It was all my dad's fault. The atmosphere in the house for weeks afterwards. Well, it was a very dangerous, dangerous format. It was terrible. Anyway, back to Whose Baby, which I don't think was hosted by Derek Batey, but it was someone like that. And you just, a small person came on

and you had to guess which celebrity might be a parent. I mean, you're right. When you think about it, it's a bit dangerous, isn't it? Melissa, tell us more about it. Email back, please. Jane and Fee at times.radio. Ten quid's worth of premium bonds. I'd have told them where they could stick it.

God, I can just feel the litigation coming on in that show. Oof! Hi, Fee and Jane, Jane and Fee. Last time I wrote to you it was to advise Fee against trying to learn how to do the splits during lockdown. I'd recently tried to do the same to impress my then eight-year-old and quickly realised that

my 40-plus body wasn't designed for the splits. I tore a muscle in my bum and struggled to sit comfortably for the next three months. So, Sarah, I was so grateful to you for making me stop doing that because it just would have been awful if that had happened. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be awful any time. But during a lockdown, you know, I think where the only thing that you could do was actually sit comfortably somewhere so that would be an absolute pointless so thank you for that and but also sarah goes on to make some really fantastic points because uh she had listened to yesterday's podcast where we were talking about the sound print app which is the one that tells you if the music or the sound levels are extremely loud and actually dangerously loud in places that

you visit out and about and Sarah says I started losing my hearing in my late 30s and I now wear two hearing aids my family and friends accept that when we go out to eat or for a drink we may have to move tables or just change restaurants completely if the sound levels are too high and most recently on my son's 10th birthday, we moved tables three times to try and find the optimal space where I stood some chance of being able to hear him and the rest of the family. Until I started losing my hearing,

I had no idea how prevalent it is. One in five people in the UK have hearing loss. It's a lot, isn't it? That's an incredible amount, yeah. And Sarah goes on to say, I actually feel really hopeful now because I'm convinced that people will start voting with their feet with apps like Soundprint.

I think people will start selecting restaurants that take the time to think about and promote their credentials as hearing-friendly environments. And actually, Soundprint has been set up by a guy who has exactly your problem is wearing hearing aids and he struggled to find recommendations for quiet restaurants when he was dating and obviously he wanted to be able to go out on a date and be able to hear the conversation between him and a stranger

and it would be difficult wouldn't it to just be it would be it would add an extra thing on a first date so he set it up in America and it's much bigger in America than it is over here but obviously it's one of those things that the more we all use it the bigger it will get and he's not doing it for money so I think it's just a fantastic thing to download yeah the bigger we can make it the better better. It sounds like a really, really sensible idea, which is clearly hugely helping people. I am interested too in hearing aids because genetically speaking,

I think it's very likely that I will end up with a hearing aid at some time. And listening to other people talking about using them, they're not that easy to get to grips with. Because I think you hear not only, well, people I'm sure will email to tell us what it's like to use hearing aids, but I think they're genuinely quite hard to get used to. And some noises are really, really loud. And I know that some people almost treat themselves

to time away from their hearing aids because wearing them isn't the easiest thing. It's important in certain circumstances to be able to hear clearly, but they're not always the... Well, I'm talking from a position of not knowing, as you can probably tell, but I do think... I think you do very well. Well, I'm just...

Thank you, that's very supportive. It's clear I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but I am interested in this as a subject. So do let us know, what is it like to start wearing hearing aids for the first time, and how long does it take to fully adapt to them, and when do they start to properly help rather than irritate? Just one final thing from Sarah, who wants to let all of our listeners know about a group

that meets every month to chat and support each other. She says, laugh about the highs and lows of hearing loss and you can find that group by typing hear me out and Eventbrite into your search engine. So thank you for all of that Sarah. You have so you're relevant on many many levels and we're extremely grateful for your input. And just one more comment that you didn't really want to hear. I was in my mid-30s, says Claire. My youngest was a couple of months old and I'd got myself a bit more together. You know, I'd had my first post-birth haircut. I was back in my normal clothes and I was able to leave my children

with a couple of, with my husband, with a couple of husbands, to leave my children with my husband for a couple of hours of shopping. I needed to buy a new monitor for my computer, so I went into a store and there was an attractive young man in his early 20s who assisted me. I realised he was sort of flirting with me a little bit. I thought to myself, actually, this is just what I need. And I indulged in a bit of completely harmless banter, fluttering my eyelashes just a teeny tiny bit. I suddenly felt in that moment the whole thing had given me a real boost of confidence. As I completed my purchase he asked me if I wanted to keep the monitor box and then he said because if you're anything like my mum you probably keep hold of all the packaging don't you? I have never forgotten this nor have my very lovely but very annoying university friends

who will bring this story up with great hilarity on any occasion that they feel it necessary. Thank you, Claire. I think he was flirting with you. I don't think he meant that comment about his mother. I don't keep packaging and I'm a woman of a certain age. Not at all. I cast it all aside because deep down I'm still young and frisky. You certainly are.

I'm still young and frisky. You certainly are. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Right, it's Jane and Fi at Times.Radio. If you'd like to contribute to whatever this guff is, we love hearing from you. Shall we crack on with the big interview? Yes, it's with one of your old flames, Alan Cummings. It's not one of my old flames.

I never met the man. In fact, we did a very nice chat on Zoom. Is the bit still in the interview, Eve, where he throws the question back to me? Oh, it threw me. It absolutely threw me. Well, was he a bit cheeky? No, so it's just quite early on.

We were talking about age because his latest stage show is called Alan Cumming is not acting his age. He wanted to show about the pressures of ageing, the pressures to have cosmetic treatments and all of that kind of stuff. And especially as somebody who's in the public eye and dependent in a way on his appearance. So we're having this lovely chat about ageing. and then he suddenly asks me about my aging thing I was so thrown by it Jane because that's not what happens I ask the question do you know who I am no but in the interview kind of you know thing but what could be pathetic what did he ask you well you're about to hear it yeah but just tempt me oh okay well it's just about how I feel about ageing. But I just apologise in advance.

You're having the time of your life. Because it just completely threw me. I was just like, what? What? What? What are you asking me for? Anyway, he's such a nice chap. There's an awful lot of strings to his bow. So we would know him, I think, primarily as an actor. He's been in things like The Good Wife. He was lovely in The Good Wife, actually. Was he? Can I ask that? Was he he's been in things like the good wife feels lovely in the good wife actually was he can I ask that was he a heterosexual in the good one he was Eli yes I think so he was a kind of slightly Machiavellian almost yes a kind of spin-doctor type character he was ever so good but he's also been in Sex and the City. He's won all of the Tonys, the Oliviers.

He's huge in America, darling. Absolutely huge. But he's quite a political animal too. And I've seen him most recently cropping up on Laura Koonsberg saying very interesting things about the state of politics in this country. He's a lifelong supporter of the SNP. And we talk about that in this interview. And one thing that you need to know too

is that he is also the host of the US series of Traitors, which features in this, I think it's the second season over there, the former Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow. Now, we can't work out why John Bercow is in the US series of the Traitors. What he's bringing to that televisual party, I can't imagine. But he's obviously got a big agent, and he's being flogged over there as a personality. So we discussed that too. But we do start with the age thing because it's obviously bothering Alan. Or is it?

Well, I don't feel my actual age in terms of how I used to think, you know, this age should feel. I'm about to turn 59. So, you know, in just over a year i'll be 60 which just i find hilarious i just find hilarious that i'm 60 i i don't i mean i've been thinking a lot about what age i do feel i think perhaps it's because since since i was in my sort of about 33 or so i feel that's when i kind of got into my groove as a person. And my life has sort of, it's obviously my life has changed quite radically since then. And many things have happened. But the sort of kind of person I am and the sort of way I live my life hasn't changed that. I mean, I do all

the things that I still do all the things that I used to do when I was 33. So it's not that I go around feeling that I'm 33. But really, the whole thing about the show is more about me sort of wanting to challenge the who these people are that decide how we should behave in our lives how you should behave at a certain age you know what is age appropriateness and I feel for me it's just about not letting those people dictate to you who how you should live your life and actually staying open to possibility and to adventure and just being curious, actually. Really, it's just about being curious in your life. And that, to me, is not acting your age, actually. Now, who are these people that you're railing against? It's so funny. I think of them

as a sort of little panel of people with white coats and clipboards and tight sphincters, probably Daily Mail readers. And I just, that's who they are are i don't know who they are i just think that's sort of you know society these people that sort of there's a sort of thing you know you've got to when you get to a certain age your principal source of exercise has to be golf things like that you wear more cardigans i just think those are the edicts that we sort of kind of by osmosis start to practice and i just don't understand why I don't understand why I also don't understand why we as a culture worship at the altar of youth and just how we you know the only thing we think we only equate beauty with youth and in other cultures we don't do that other cultures actually

admire and venerate their elders and the process of getting older and that that kind of troubles me too that we don't do that do you think that you're more attractive now than you were when you were younger I think uh yes actually I think I have grown into myself grown into my body I mean obviously I think you know you look at yourself when you're younger you think I was archetypally hotter because I was younger I was skinnier I was whatever my lips were was whatever. My lips were fuller, all that sort of stuff. But I actually think I'm more attractive because I'm more authentic and more comfortable in my body and in my skin.

Yeah. Do you? Oh, fantastic. Feel more attractive now than when you were... It took me by surprise. I've loved everything that you've said there because I think that I'm definitely more comfortable with how I look but I know that other people don't think

that I am as attractive as I maybe once was and I have a constant thing in my head about that and what it does to me is it just makes me want to prove myself in other ways because the plastic surgery route and the trying to stay young route and all that kind of stuff is just it's not for me so I feel a really a really weird pressure to to kind of um I don't know sort of excel in other ways yes exactly that exactly that and sometimes i do have to have a bit of a think about that because i just think well well bloody hell why why am i having to do that why why do i how do i feel that well that's a societal pressure

isn't it that's that that is about this thing of only, I mean, it's so crazy, we're all getting older. It happens to everyone. It is inexorable that we're going to get more wrinkly, get more, you know, less skinny, all these things. Our hair is going to go gray.

That's just what happens. And yet, and so we've decided, we've allowed it to be, we've creatively visualized it to be the worst possible thing that can happen to us i really enjoy getting older i really love the experience of having wisdom and having understanding of things and feeling more comfortable i mean this whole this whole show came about because i was doing a show called daddy a play in new york a

couple years ago called daddy in which i had to be naked for long periods of time. And I was 50, 57 or something at the time, and completely naked for swathes of good 10, 20 minutes and things. And just how people reacted to that was really fascinating. And being objectified in that way at that age, it sort of hadn't happened. I hadn't been objectified about my body in the same way for quite a long time. I think the thing is when you're a man, you go from being like hot, and then you go handsome, then you go you know silver fox and then you kind of become a daddy and that daddy is a sort of a new way of being seen as sort of a sexual being and I think for women they don't have that they don't have the daddy bit to arrive at no we don't just kind of no no that's really interesting but in what way was your body objectified?

So did people write about the fact that your body simply looked older? Yeah. Yeah. And they wrote about my penis. I mean, everything. I mean, like, you know, in the reviews, they sort of, one of them said, if you've ever wanted, if you've ever wondered if Alan Cumming is circumcised, this is the play for you. I kind of thought they would focus more on the the younger

guy who was naked and it was more about me and I just found that really fascinating do you feel a pressure to um to do any of the kind of cosmetic treatments and stuff like that in order to enhance your appearance I know I mean I've a big, strong decision not to do that. I joke that I'm going to be the only person on American TV not to have had Botox. I think, in fact, I think I am. And it's funny, the other day, I am doing a lot of interviews about this topic,

and there was a girl, a younger woman I was interviewed by, and I said that, and she said, gosh, Alan, I hope you take this the right way, but, and I mean this as a girl, a younger woman I was interviewed by. And I said that and she said, gosh, Alan, I hope you take this the right way. But, and I mean this as a compliment, but you look like you have had Botox. I thought that was absolutely hilarious. And also that's the problem that, you know, everybody does it so that if you don't do it,

you're the freak, you look weird. And so I am aware of the pressures. I don't feel like I'm not going to do it you're the freak you look weird and so I am I am aware of the pressures I don't I don't feel like I'm not going to do it so that's that you know I'm also a man so that eases the pressure somewhat because um you know we get to be handsome and we get to be a daddy and we get to be older as I said so you see people writing and talking about how you look all the time and of course they say oh he's getting older or you know blah blah or he's aging well and things like that so even when it's a compliment it's still a reminder of your decay so but I'm actually sort of embracing my decay I think that's what this show is about I'm actually saying yeah I am decaying in front of you but I'm still enjoying

myself and I'm still looking after myself and I'm still feeling good and actually probably feeling better yeah you're still very much in work though aren't you um so you know your ability to age gracefully is not hampering your ability to um you know still get all of the parts and all of the roles and one of them is as the host of the US Traders isn't it which we are enjoying season two of the roles and one of them is as the host of the US Traitors isn't it which we are enjoying season two of the UK Traitors in this country at the moment yours is a little bit different in America because it has some celebrities in it or all celebrities in it last year last first season I had half real people half celebrities this year's all celebrities this features uh John Bercow doesn't it the former speaker yes yes yes now randomly he's one of the celebrities it's so nuts i mean there's one of these little films that they're doing the promo things for i and i interviewed them all and there's

so each one's got me interviewing them and the one for john it's i just go why are you doing this and he said well i want what i want to be outside my comfort zone. I was like, oh, yes, the old comfort zone theory. I found him hilarious. Hilarious in a good way or hilarious in a bad way? I mean, he's a convicted serial bully, Alan, isn't he that's uh yes oh I'm aware I'm very aware of that why he didn't get his parliamentary pass back uh so yes is that at all difficult you know the politicians who who then managed to kind of fail upwards in the world of celebrity yes I think it is a a terrible indictment of our society actually I. I think it's, you know, someone abuses their position in public office and they get to go on, I'm a celebrity, get me out of here or whatever,

and are kind of able to do a sort of, in some way, be like a sort of phoenix rising from the gossip page ashes. And we let them and we encourage them and we enjoy it. With John, I mean, yes, I was very aware of his bullying. I mean, in some way, it was actually very satisfying for me to kind of give him a hard time and to sort of, and, you know, I play a sort of character in this show. I mean, I'm hosting it, but I'm sort of playing this sort of, you know,

stern James Bond baddie sort of person. So John gets out and I say, John, come over and stand by the obelisk failure. You have disappointed yourself and you've disappointed me. And he went, I appreciate you, Alan. That's what he said. And so it was actually satisfying to, I mean, I wasn't bullying him, but I was kind of just giving him a hard time. I was just sort of not letting him, I wasn't letting him, I mean, with all of them, I do that. I don't let anything go. But it's actually really nice to sort of see people who are made to be team players when maybe they're not. Oh, interesting way of putting it. You're also a man who's very happy to exist in the real world with real opinions.

And I've heard you talk before about politics. Are you a member of the SNP? I am, yeah. A lifelong member. I mean, I've got a lifelong membership. What do you think the future for the SNP is? Gosh, that's a big question. I mean, I think at the moment it's about,

and I think this is where Hamza Yousaf, the First Minister, is doing such a good job. It's about sort of calming the waters after the fallout of Nicola resigning and then this police investigation and the kind of very acrimonious leadership election campaign. And I think he's done a really good job in doing so. Now, I think it's about sort of rediscovering

or hopefully getting this police... I don't understand why this police investigation is still not resolved. I mean, it seems insane. It's almost a year now. Maybe not, nine months or something. But also kind of re-harnessing the energy. And of course, the whole thing about the election,

you know, an election year is obviously something that is going to sort of be very important. And I mean, to me, I think what we've got to do is make people realise how strangled Scotland is by the Westminster government. It's not allowed. The Westminster government doesn't allow Scotland to have a referendum that Scotland wants to have. The Parliament voted for it. Scottish Parliament voted for it. And the Westminster government said, no, you can't do it. And there's been two other bills, the trans bill and thing about recycling that the, again, you know, democratically

elected Scottish Parliament voted for, passed, and then the Westminster government said, no, you can't do that Scotland. Scotland. So where do you go from there? And if there wasn't, I don't see how there could ever be a better case for Scotland to have independence, to self-determine, to stop another government that it didn't vote for, telling it that it can't actually do the things that its own parliament has actually voted for. It's undemocratic. So you must be disappointed at where the SNP lie in the polls at the moment, because it's looking like quite a tough fight ahead for them. Do you believe that you will see Scottish independence within your lifetime? I do. You know, Keir Starmer is going

to be the next Prime Minister, and there's going to be a big turn towards Labour after this disastrous Tory government. And because of that, I think, yes, you know, the reason there's 50 something Scottish MPs at the moment is because it was a big protest vote about Brexit and everything. You know, Scotland did not vote for Brexit and yet it's had to face the consequences. So obviously there's going to be less Scottish National Party MPs in Westminster, that's clear. However, the polls for independence within Scotland are at their highest and it hasn't been like that, I don't know, for many, many years. So that to me is heartening, that even with all the stuff

that's been happening and the sort of scandal, I suppose, with the Scottish National Party police investigation thing, and even with the rise of the resurgence of Labour nationally, actually people still want, you know, you can vote Labour and still want to have independence. You can vote Conservative and still want to have independence. So that, to me, is heartening. I just think it's going to be an interesting year

because we're going to have to sort of reassess and once the election's over and find our voice. And I think also, you know, I'm really interested to see what Keir Starmer will do. I mean, he's been making, you know, making it clear that he doesn't want to, he doesn't think Scotland should get a referendum. I feel like, well, you're going to start your new tenure

as a prime minister by supporting an undemocratic act, not letting us have a referendum i feel like well you're going to start your new tenure as a prime minister by supporting an undemocratic act uh not letting us have a referendum but when tony blair got in in 1997 one of the first he things he did was pave the way for a referendum for the scottish devolution and the setup of the scottish parliament the same scottish parliament now westminster's uh taking powers away from so i hope i, I really hope that Keir Starmer and the Labour Party will do the right thing and at least allow a referendum to happen. Final question about American politics, if I may, because you spend a lot of time in America.

Do you have dual citizenship there? I do. I'm a citizen. I'm an American citizen as well as a British one. Lovely. So you're paying taxes in two places. So you get to have political, yes, political rights in two places. And I know that you endorsed Bernie Sanders back in 2016. So who is knocking on your door for an endorsement at the moment and do you think that we are going to see Biden versus Trump? Yes I do think we're going to see Biden versus Trump unfortunately and there's nobody knocking on my door for a presidential endorsement because it's you know

when a sitting president says he wants to run again everybody backs backs down, sadly, I think. And Joe Biden is, you know, obviously, I'm going to vote for him. I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure he wins. But and, you know, as are hopefully most people who voted for him last time, but because the alternative is unthinkable. But he does disappoint me because he said he wasn't going to run for a second time and he was going to you know hand the baton on someone younger and i think the fact that that sort of hubris that he has um he is displaying about what you know in running again is sort of um it's kind of a manifestation of this problem in amer in general, where people who are in, people just

keep going on and stay too long. Like Nancy Pelosi is running again. She's well in her 80s. Dianne Feinstein, the senator for California, I mean, she just died recently. She was like 90 or something, and she wouldn't resign. Mitch mcconnell the the republican was is falling over having a stroke in public and he's still hanging on we've got i don't understand what that is maybe it's partly to do with the whole sort of you know rise of plastic surgery in this way that we've got to pretend to be younger all the time that people who are obviously too old to be doing the job they're doing and i think biden as much as i admire him he's too old it's doing the job they're doing. And I think Biden, as much as I admire him, he's too old. It's like he's got this really, really important job and he needs to hand it over to someone younger.

I mean, there's a reason why we have, you know, people retire. You're supposed to, and you're supposed to let other people do it. And you've got to, you can relax and you can pass down your wisdom, but don't be at the center of things when clearly you're too old to.

And Trump, I think of Trump, you know, there's obviously signs in both of their behaviours of kind of medical issues that you don't really want the President of the United States to be having. So when you say that

to your American friends and possibly even go further and ask the question, what would happen if either of these two candidates died whilst they were campaigning to become president or once they were in office? You know, what do what do your friends say? And can you say that, actually? Can you be that honest with people? Because that seems to be the very, very obvious thing from... I mean, I say this. This is not a secret, though, I've told you.

I have said this before. But the thing is, there is no alternative because that's the way it works. And that, sadly, is the way it works. And nobody is going to sort of... I mean, Gavin Newsom, who's the governor of California, who's much younger, I think is great, actually. I wish he were running.

And he did a sort of a town hall thing with Ron DeSantis and kind of wiped the floor with him. And I thought that was, I mean, it's kind of, he's sort of circling. He would be, he seems to be the obvious choice as the next sort of, you know, heir apparent in the Democratic Party as leader. But there is nothing you can do. Like Biden has said he's running and that's what happens. He's running. If he died, you know,

obviously if he died during office, then Kamala Harris would take over. But I feel that she's been, you know, there's sort of rumors they don't get on. And it's a very difficult role being the vice president. You don't, you know, you can kind of get sidelined. I think Biden, when Obama was president, was the most sort of involved vice president that people could remember.

But there's nothing to be done, sadly. And it's just, in the same way that there's nothing really to be done, you know, Trump, unless he does go to prison before the election, is going to be the Republican nominee. And it's just a tragic state of affairs that that is the case. And also the fact that America, there's no other democracy in the world that only has two political parties. And it's a massive country.

There's over 300 million people. There's only two political parties. So it just is team sports. It's just your side or my side when it comes to politics. And people don't listen. They don't analyse and discuss. They just shout at each other like a football match.

And that, I think, is another problem with the political system there. Alan Cumming and tickets for his one-man show, Alan Cumming is Not Acting His Age, are available now. You'll just be able to catch him in London, but then also in Glasgow and in Manchester. I saw him briefly on Laura Koonsberg. I thought, I'm going to be mature and I'm going to be a journalist. I'm going to watch the Laura Koonsberg show.

Oh, well done. Yes. But then I stopped watching. I can't remember why. I think the phone rang. OK. But I had it on. And I don't see, you know, Laura's a nice woman, isn't she, we should say.

She's a brilliant woman. She did two interviews this week one with David Cameron and with Keir Starmer and they were so good I mean she just be do do do do so professional yeah and you know and definitely not that our colleagues here are not professional all of the right questions no but we're big enough to be able to say that you know some some people back at the old school is still doing well Jane I think we're allowed to say that. I really like what Alan Cummings said, just in a very honest way, just about the age of potentially the two candidates for the US presidency.

I don't know why more people aren't saying it. It's crackers. But exactly that. And as he's just said, in conversation with his friends in America, he is saying, look, you know, these people might not make it. This is, you know, it's not being rude or offensive or ageist. It's just like, this is a fact. So what are we doing here? The idea that they posture as, I mean, men die before women. That's the other thing. They actually do. It's not their fault. It's just the way...

Hashtag not all men. Hashtag not all men. Some live forever. No, so far no one has lived forever and I really am glad they've debunked that idea of that world's oldest dog. That was such a load of dog bollocks. It really was. The dog was clearly not 31.

Honestly, I'm glad. These things need to be righted. I've moved on seamlessly from Alan Cumming, Biden and Trump onto the world's not oldest dog. Certainly have. Yes, there we go. With that, I'm closing my script. Yes, this is scripted.

We've got an awful lot of reading to do because we do have Robert Hardman's chunky but delicious new autobiography of Charles III. Yeah, and tomorrow you're interviewing Bettany Hughes. Yes, about the seven wonders of the world. But it's already been explained to us

we haven't got time for seven wonders. We're just going to do two wonders. Yes, we're just going to pick. We're going to have one from the top and one from the bottom, please, Bettany. Pick your two favourite wonders. So that'll be fun and very informative because she's very clever and she knows an awful lot of stuff.

She certainly is and does. So I hope you can join us for that. Enjoy your evening. Wrap up warm wherever you are or if you're somewhere nice and sunny. We don't need to know. No, we really... Actually, you are.

We don't mind. So join us for our wonders, just a couple, tomorrow. Take care. Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fi Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio.

It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run or running a bank. Thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. Don't be so silly. Running a bank? I know, ladies. be so silly. Money, good bank.

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