Off Air... with Jane and Fi - The stark naked coffee club (with Martin Clunes)

Episode Date: April 29, 2024

Today, Jane and Fi say Goodbye to speaking about Morris Dancers - may you prance in peace. Plus, Jane shares some speculative information she overheard at the hairdressers.And Jane speaks to actor and presenter, Martin Clunes, about his new series of 'Islands of the Pacific'. You can book your tickets to see Jane and Fi live at the new Crossed Wires festival here: https://www.sheffieldtheatres.co.uk/book/instance/663601 Our next book club pick has been announced - A Dutiful Boy by Mohsin Zaidi. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Hannah Quinn Times Radio Producer: Kate Lee Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

They need to be told that they can't light up a Marlboro light, you know, when they're in the dentist's chair. But, excuse me, you could have a rinse and a spit and a fag. Our summer holiday, which is a... It's a villa holiday, the summer, Jane. It runs from Monday to Monday. Oh, well, is that cheaper? I imagine it is. Well, it's definitely...

It's the first time that we can go on holiday outside the school holidays. Yeah. So everything's cheaper. So when you booked it, did you think it was Saturday to Saturday? I didn't really think at all. I just booked it. You were crazy. In desperation. Get that one! get that one get that one quick yes but monday to monday just seems really strange so you've got a whole weekend to pack and worry yeah and worry and worry and then repack

and see if you can get it in a smaller suitcase and decide to take a bigger suitcase all of that but then you've got to take another day off work the week into the week after you've gone away. I've never come across anything like this. I've always thought you were wildly eccentric and here is further proof. It's a Monday to Monday holiday. Yeah, it's not me that's decided

it's the holiday company. All their bookings are Monday to Monday. Well, they're even straightforward. Yeah, it is weird. I don't think it'll catch on, to be honest. Are they British? I think they might be. Yep. Okay.

Well, here we are, reconvening for another edition of Off Air. And once again, a nice chunk of emails here, so thank you very much. But we just both want to say, although we are grateful for the images of the trouble in Shepton Mallet with the knitted...

Naked knitted Morris dancers. That's it. We've seen them now. So lots of people took the time and effort to send us those pictures and we are grateful. I'm certainly... I go to bed every night now with a last lingering glance at those images

before I settle down. But we don't want any more. No, I think we're done. But we don't want any more. No, I think we're done. We just don't want any more. But also, I think we really need to say that this week because the very, very big zenith of the Morris Dancing calendar is this weekend, surely, with May Day. Well, we just want to say we wish everyone well.

We wish you a happy jingle and a happy jangle, but we're okay for pictures. And a clickety-clack. And may you prance excitedly around the maypole in your locality. Yes, have a lovely, lovely maypole. But just be in the moment. Don't feel that you need to set the moment off. This approaching is the so-called May Day bank holidays.

It is. And I do remember when it was brought in that some people were very angry about it because they thought it was a kind of communist thing. I think it was brought in during, was it the 80s or the 90s? It was very newfangled. And a lot of people thought it had connections to, because it's a big workers' holiday, isn't it, in communist countries?

Do you know what? I love the emphasis you've put on that. Workers. Well, is that often something you've said, the workers? It is. I'm not wrong, am I? It is like a communist workers' holiday. That was the idea of May Day. But aren't all bank holidays,

don't all of our bank holidays have that as their... No, they're just for bankers. And the rest of us are just fortunate we're just tagging along for the ride okay no that's just rubbish clearly but this this bank holiday is is the newest one in our collection of bank holidays because as a country this is a boring fact we don't have as many public holidays as lots of others i didn't know that boring fact i've always assumed that we had more because when we get to the summer you kind we get to the summer, you kind of, you know, there's quite a lot. There are quite a lot.

Because you get all of the Easter, and then you get May Day, and then you get the second one in May, and then there's another one coming up in August. And if you've got a bit of Scottishness in your family, there are quite a few other Scottish bank holidays that we don't have down here. Oh, yeah, because they have an extra one for New Year, don't they? Yeah, and there's another August bank holiday as well in Scotland. Oh, why?

I don't know. And then they have the tatty holiday as well, but that's a different thing completely. I'd definitely take some historical detail, probably from Thomas. He's usually quite good at that, isn't he? Yes, he is. On the bank holidays. I haven't heard from him for a while, so you know what you need to do at jade and fee at times.radio we have one very simple email um from grace who just says is this the best email to send in a question for your podcast yes it is jade and fee at times.radio i love this tiny one from k who says i've just spotted in this

episode from the old podcast in October 2021, you saying you'd love to name everything Barbara in a couple of years time. And she's just emailed to say, well done, because you did listen in at the 16 minute mark. It's unlikely I'm going to go back and listen to that. I'm going to take your word for it. But gosh, I mean, well done you

for diving into the back catalogue there. Yeah, we appreciate that. Sometimes, very occasionally, and I am barmy, but I'm not that barmy. I do listen to Off Air. And I've got to say, I enjoy it. I don't listen to every edition, far from it. But every now and again, I think, oh, I can see. Oh, and it's really tragic when you find yourself laughing.

No, it really is. There's something approaching. It's a deeply troubling set of psychological circumstances when something you said seven weeks ago, something you said, darling, seven weeks ago. No, darling, it's bound to have been you. Can make me laugh on the underground. Well, there's a comedian who we both know, we don't like him, but we both know him, who apparently whenever you went round to his house, you had to watch an episode of one of his comedy shows

before having a meal. And not done with any kind of irony at all, but genuinely... As part of the evening. Welcome to my house, let's sit down and watch me. And you had to chortle away and then move on to your meal. I thought the food was good. Can I just say that I did see Red Eye, episode two yesterday.

It's got a throat on it. Have you seen all of it? Yes. Okay. Well, I had to skip to the end. I couldn't. Oh, I'm treating myself, and I do mean that. I'm going to watch it on a terrestrial telly fashion right to the end i'm going to make it part of my sunday

night where i leaf through the papers and watch a bit of silly telly and i'm not leaping ahead i'm watching every damn moment of red eye and last night episode two there was a terrible fight between the two women on the plane it was one of the worst choreographed acting fights i've ever seen it was so... They were hopeless. ...slappy handy, wasn't it? They were like, get off! You thought you trapped my husband.

But also, they both had really long hair. I can barely tell them apart. If you've ever seen a female scrap, it is always hair grabbing. It's horrible. Oh, is it?

But of course you're going to go for somebody's hair. I think... Oh, no. Well, I don't... I'm sure I've said this before, I've only ever witnessed two fights in my life apart from the ones I've been involved in.

Slightly different. And they've been between women. I've never seen two men fighting. Have you not? No. Because you're lucky. Well I appreciate it, I probably am. I don't want to see it either but I've seen two women fighting outside a pub and I've seen a parent, two parents going at it

outside my kid's primary school because one had driven very poorly actually and splashed another woman with puddle water. Wow. And she got out and then they went for it. And the only people who witnessed it were me, you know, the proverbial couldn't fight her way out of a paper bag and the lovely, very softly spoken reception teacher.

And neither of us could have waded in to help. Well, I don't think you should in that instance. Well, we just stood there dithering. I thought you were going to say it was about sats. They caused quite a lot of controversy in our primary school. Well, sats because people didn't want their children to take them, didn't want them to feel under pressure. Yeah.

Yeah, oh gosh, yeah. And also because I think half the staff room agreed with that at the time, but they just have to go ahead with it. That's just what they have to do. So, yeah, I could never quite work out all of the different sides. It seemed to be a rhombus of an argument, that one. But I am interested in what, you know, the idea of the Ofsted rating changing. You know, I think they are abandoning, or are they?

No, they're not abandoning the one word. They were thinking about it, and now they've decided not to. Yeah. I wonder whether any of the teachers who listen have got a view on that, because I'd be really interested. Oh, I'm sure they do. I mean, I just, I always thought it was bonkers. And because, also, it just meant that a school could put

and of course you'd be proud of it if you got Oh God, yeah. outstanding or good you know, would put it up on the sign outside the school and I mean, you know, it was catnip to parents and, you know, created all kinds of Yeah. really weird amounts of people moving house

and renting houses if that's what they could do and other kids who'd lived there all their lives not being able to get in and all that kind of stuff. It was just bizarre. I mean, it's like an estate agent's board outside your house that says, shit, or says, farrow and bald, or whatever it is. It's just you've got to go and look round it. You've got to do some research.

You've got to know a bit more. It can't. I don't think the one-word thing should have stayed at all. And also because, as you know from all of the testimony from headteachers, it's just caused so much angst for them. Yeah. But it isn't as, well, I don't know. That's why I wonder whether, as you say, if you get outstanding,

it just gives everyone on the staff a massive boost. Oh, I'm sure it does. You stick it on the sign and then it's yours for a couple of years, isn't it? Because they're not going to come back for a while. But obviously, if it comes back, needs improvement, then that's, you're not going to put it on the sign, are you? You're just not going to put anything. But I don't know. I'd love to hear what teachers think. Yeah. And of course, you're right're right i mean what an amazing achievement and you would of course you'd want to advertise it and be very proud of it but you can't control what people are then thinking no when they see it and the we've got quite a few still got quite a few really really lovely emails

about people's wedding stories and i think we probably might have to draw that episode of thought to a little bit of a close as well but the ones that you've sent in so far we will keep for our next email special too because they all kind of stand the test of time don't they oh well they really do and we are approaching wedding season aren't we that? That's true. Do you think that is still true? I think probably it is. I mean, there is those sort of slightly frantic summers of your life when you seem to be attending a wedding every couple of weeks. Did you have one of those?

I think I probably did. I can't remember now. Perhaps I didn't, perhaps they were more spaced out. It's like four weddings and a funeral does have a brilliant start. Do you remember how that film starts where Hugh Grant, I think he oversleeps and he's got to get to yet another wedding. He's obviously part of a rather fast upper middle class circle, but he has to dash to get to the wedding he's due at at the start of Four Weddings and a Funeral,

which actually I saw relatively recently. It's quite moving. Am I right? No, I think it's one of the better ones in that genre, isn't it? But it's made beautiful because of the gay couple, don't you think? Oh, yeah, and he dies, doesn't he? Yeah. Spoiler.

Spoiler. And is it the W.H. Auden poem that's read, which is really beautiful? But it's very funny. I mean, they do nail the, you know, the kind of comedic humour of the marquee and all of that kind of nonsense. But Jackie has sent an email which has combined two of our favourite themes from the last couple of editions,

wedding extravaganza and spitting in China. Early in 2022, I got engaged not to be married to my late in life love interest. Well, she just got engaged. Yeah. Later that, thank you. God, you're here. Later that year, I had a change of heart

and went full on bridezilla and organised my absolute dream wedding just coming up to my first anniversary. And I'm still smiling every day, remembering what a fantastic day it was. It was the second time around for both of us my son gave me away my stepson was the best man and my stepdaughter my maid of honor we had everything just as we wanted although eye-wateringly expensive it was worth every penny in the same year other friends did the private ceremony thing and also had their best day I just think it has to be whatever makes

you happy and if you're second third timersers or later in life, it does make it easier to decide what to do. In other spitting news, says Jackie, in the early 1990s, I went to China on business. On my first evening, I met my chaperone in a restaurant and put my bag on the floor. They immediately pitched up and put it on a chair, warning me that it would have been spat on if I left it there. I then went to a hospital to visit the operating theatres. Sorry about my pronunciation. The families wait outside as they have to be called in by the surgeons during an operation

to look at the limb or organ or lump that's been removed. I didn't know that. I would like to know more about, is this still common practice? Please God, it doesn't catch on here. Yeah, the waiting consisted uh mostly of smoking and spitting in a hospital thank you with three kisses um well i'm not reading that out to be pejorative uh about china at all but it's a different cultural thing isn't it in different cultures it's really uh i don't know whether it's acceptable but it's certainly more common to spit

and the smoking thing i mean people used to be able to smoke in hospitals here up until so recently. It's mind-boggling because sometimes you'll notice, won't you, that you'll still go into an old municipal building and it'll have no smoking signs, which my kids find extremely amusing. As though you ever could smoke. Yes, as if they need to be told that they can't light up a Marlboro light, you know, when they're in the dentist's chair. Excuse me.

You could have a rinse and a spit and a fag in your dentist's chair. So times have changed. But yes, is that a thing where you go and look at the bits? I don't know. We're out of our depth here. If it is, don't replace Morris dancing with pictures of lumps. We're begging for no images. Now the interview with

Hadley Freeman last week about, and Hadley had written a brilliant book I think called Good Girls about her recovery from anorexia. But of course we did I think point it out at the time and if we didn't we should have done, I should have done. Not everybody does recover from anorexia.

It's such a cruel, cruel thing. And we've had a long email, which I won't read out in its entirety, from a listener who just says that she's had an incredibly tough time in the grip of anorexia. And she says, of course, weight gain has got to be a part of treatment, but it shouldn't be the only focus. There is a lack of support available in community settings and people are discharged from hospital without getting the help they need outside i do believe that recovery is possible for everybody and i do know of many people who have got better and are living fulfilled lives and they're inspirational to me and i've got to remain hopeful that one day the illness will not be in my present but in my past. At the moment though

I'm taking it one hour at a time as that is all I can do. Off-air is actually part of how I cope with day-to-day tasks and I'm grateful to you both and the rest of the team for giving me just a bit of time during the course of the week whilst the only noise in my head isn't narrated by the illness and I think that's thank you for that and I won't mention your name but I have read the email and I'm really grateful to you for being so honest about about your experience of it that last sentence isn't narrated the noise in my head isn't narrated by the illness is a very small but short but incredibly powerful illustration of the fact that it is utterly dominant in our correspondence head that she has nothing that it seems all powerful there is nothing that she can do about it at the moment although she

says she has to believe that recovery is possible yeah and i And I sincerely hope it is. I agree with you. I think it's a very brilliant insight, isn't it, into how a mind is working and also why you can't see the logic of needing to eat and make yourself act on it because actually it's like an algorithm, isn't it, algorithm? If that's what's just going on in your head all of the time, it pushes out the logic and pushes out the choice. And your internal narration is just about one thing,

which I think a lot of anorexia sufferers say is exactly what happens. You just can't actually, you can't turn off the motorway. It's just nonstop, non-stop so we wish you well and um and i thought i thought the hadley freeman interview uh was just really amazing actually jane because there's something about how she can speak and it's completely without self-pity isn't it or um a kind of an introspection that might make it hard to listen to it's she's just very good at discussing what's happened to her and i understand she can do that from a vantage point of of being a recovered anorexic but it's so helpful it is helpful um but it's just, unfortunately, not everybody's experience. So she, as Hadley, absolutely acknowledges.

So thank you to that listener and indeed to other people who've emailed on that subject. Can I really change gear with public nudity? Well, this is just a puzzle, isn't it? This is just really strange, isn't it? It comes from Rebecca, who says, whilst listening the other morning to the story about naturism my ears pricked up and i felt compelled to write to you to get something off my fully clothed chest picture the scene if you will it was very early january i think that

detail is important it really is in a cafe in macklesfield probably not one of the most clement areas of the uk at that time i was with my daughter seeking a welcome lunch spot on what was a really rather dismal cold day. We took refuge from the elements in a lovely cafe, very welcoming obviously to all as we'd found once we'd taken our seats. It was only then that we noticed a couple sat at a table eating lunch, completely starkers. I exaggerate, the female of the couple was wearing a woolly hat although if she was having a bad hair day I wouldn't have been so offended as her sat there with not a stitch on. We felt we were in some weird dream and it couldn't be real although when the lady in question decided to visit the toilets which was a walk through the

whole cafe and up a flight of stairs I realised the situation was very real indeed. We outstayed their visit and as they left and walked past us, they were wearing a rug wrapped around their bottom half, a coat and, if I remember rightly, sandals on their feet. To this day, I struggle to understand the whys in this. Maybe there's another listener who was in Mac on that cold day and can let me know if it wasn't all a bad dream. Yours fully clothed in a chilly April. Well, Rebecca, there's a lot to unpack there.

Was everybody else in the cafe just nonplussed? Yeah, we need more. Were they regulars? She doesn't say exactly when this was. It was January, was it this year or the year before? I read that and I wasn't quite sure when it had happened. Allegedly. We just don't know.

But also, there are two funny things there, aren't there, as well, with feeling the need to wear a woolly hat when you're completely stuck everything else is on display and feeling the need to wear sandals as if your feet are desperately needing to give into nudity as well but they've taken the next best thing so i i completely understand that obviously there's something that's making a lot of naturists tick, and that's your shebang, that's fine. But I don't... I think it's weird when you want to really display it in a fully clothed place. Is that... Is it the equivalent of...

Because you're a big fan of cold water swimming, and you're far from alone. What are you about to say? Is this a kind of... Is going for a coffee stark naked? Just another version of that? I'm sorry. I mean, I'm not going cold-porter swimming,

so I can have all my bits stared at. I mean, I don't know Macclesfield, do you? But it's a terribly rarefied area. I tell you what, you pay a few quid for a gaff there. So, yeah, we just need to know more. Is there a Macclesfield Naturist Society? Could it have been one of their official meetings? Did our correspondents simply not see the sign on the door?

It's not a very popular society. There are only two of them. That is quite weird. Well, maybe they're just locked in a naturist adder. Oh, I don't know. But at the same time, it's nice to hear naturists just doing normal things because whenever you see a programme about naturists on TV, they are either barbecuing or playing ping pong.

Yeah, just going out for an overpriced latte is so much more respectable. Tracy is in Hampshire. Well, how wonderful. Shout out to Hampshire. I've just listened to your Thursday podcast discussing the moon landing and various choices of potential names for conceived babies. My third son was conceived on a free hotel stay, a free hotel stay, after complaining to a well-known hotel chain

about my previous holiday. Now that is classy. It is. You've hit the jackpot there, Tracey, because not only have you had a free night in a hotel after a successful bit of pioneering consumer work, you actually did the business. My husband and I pondered the choice of names. At the time, it had been made fashionable by the Spice Girls to call children after the place they were conceived. Brooklyn and Phoenix are, of course, now well known. I didn't know that Phoenix was named after the place where she'd been conceived.

That's the daughter of Mel B. Oh, I didn't know that. I think that's right. I think I'm OK on the Sp know that. I think that's right. I think I'm okay on the Spice Girls. I think that's correct. This is where your reading of the 3am column is really showing promise, Jane. Thank you very much.

I knew it would pay off. Tracy says, I'm sure my son Harry, now 25, is really happy we didn't follow trend and call him Leatherhead. Actually, I can't imagine. You do have to be careful with um i mean brooklyn seemed ridiculous at the time but it's actually quite a nice name isn't it it is a nice name but i've always felt

for the lad because yes it's not easy that you know the genetic inheritance i mean it just plunged into fame from the moment you were born but just the name thing because i think it draws attention to something that none of us want to have as a shadow, you know, when being introduced to people. You do not want people to be thinking about your conception when you're introducing yourself,

do you? No. No. No. No. It's a bit odd. Yeah. This one comes from Juliaia although literally everyone you meet has been conceived i know that which is when you think about it quite but you're but you're not being asked to think about the the when and the where are you i mean you can think about the when but well have you read eleanor's email um a few years back a friend told me that she and her

sister had the same birthday which they'd worked out was because it was nine months after their mother's birthday. I laughed, half horrified. But then I did some simple maths in my head. And the maths revealed to me that if me and my three siblings, three of us were born nine months after my father's birthday, and the other one nine months after my mother's, I will never be able to expunge this information from my brain and every so often I'm reminded with a real cringe. Oh dear. Well, just a little bit. High days, holidays and treat days.

Is that Edinburgh? I think I've moved up to Dundee. Well, it's a big day for news from Scotland. Oh my word. And I think all people like yourself with Scottish heritage must be feeling a little bit trepidatious. Very trepidatious. And so Humza Yousaf has resigned as First Minister.

And he, I mean, the SNP's been in all kinds of bother. Well, I think that's a good, well, that's very good. That's a catch-all phrase that I think just about covers it. But I think he alluded to the fact that the dominance of independence in their manifesto has cost quite a lot along the way. But he said that the last final miles of the marathon are the hardest to complete. As we both know that is absolutely true. It's certainly an analogy that really rang true for me jane but it's a dangerous comparison to make isn't it because you could equally say well

you know you you could be seen to be proving that you were uh runners who should never have qualified for the race you could so yes absolutely could. I thought it was quite interesting that he got very tearful towards the end of the speech. And absolutely no shade there. I completely understand that it must be quite overwhelming. But isn't it extraordinary how it's sort of taken for granted now that people will cry at that moment? And when we were growing up 40, 50 years ago, people in public life didn't cry at those moments. I'm not saying that was right or wrong. I'm just saying that we definitely are leaders now emote

in a way that they wouldn't have dared to do or just couldn't all those years ago. Yeah, there's a voice crack that comes, isn't there? I mean, the only person who didn't, Boris Johnson didn't exhibit any, he was just full of, what was it he said? Hasta mañana or something. Hasta la vista, baby. Now, that was in Parliament, wasn't it?

But he said something. Or have I got it the wrong way round? He didn't get teary. No, but, I mean, he must have been exhausted because there was such a long list of things that he had accomplished, do you remember, when he left? Oh, God. Don't get me started.

There we go. But it is an exciting time in Scottish politics. Oh, yes. And, yeah. Do you think in your lifetime you'll see Scotland as an independent country? Oh, no. Okay, right. Well, you have no idea how long I'll live.

I tell you what, book her on all the chat shows. Can I just do one more conception date before... Are you all right? I'm not worried. I've tied myself to... But I was also the person who messaged on the WhatsApp group on Friday to say I thought the election was going to be... the general election was going to be called today.

Could you be a bit careful about what you message on a Friday? Because I saw that incoming. I thought, oh, that's going to be a really, really important work-orientated thing. And it was speculation from the hairdresser's chair, wasn't it? No, it wasn't the hairdresser who told me. I was at the hairdresser's. I thought I'd pass on some speculative information that had reached me whilst I was at the hairdresser's.

OK, but it's not turned out to be true, unless this is the busiest day in politics ever and an election is about to be called. Well, I've been wrong before, and I've been right very, very, very occasionally. Julia sends this. Talking of conception dates, here's a big ick factor for you. I was conceived on the night that ABBA won Eurovision,

as apparently my parents had been to a particularly good party and there was nothing good on the telly. Well, Eurovision was on the telly, wasn't it? Yes, it was 1974, Brighton. Yeah, so they must have enjoyed it on the telly and there was nothing on it. Of course there was nothing on afterwards. Television stopped at about 10.30. It did. Good night.

They played the national anthems, didn't they? And the sky just went... the sky? The screen just went dark. The many 50th anniversary celebrations of this monumentous date the other weekend were particularly amusing amongst my family and friends and a shock reminder that my half century is approaching. My brother's band even played Waterloo and informed everyone at my wedding of the joyous occasion. My parents sadly died in my 20s. I'm sorry about that, Julia, because that's very young, but would be thoroughly amused by the whole event.

I was even in Sainsbury's the other week and bumped into my mum's best friend who announced to her late-in-life love interest that this is my best friend Barbara's daughter. She was conceived when Avalon had her vision, you know. I'm not quite sure he knew what to say. What is a man supposed to say in those circumstances? These are brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

You're standing by the courgettes. And suddenly you've got a terrible, terrible visual image in your head. You really have. Our guest today is the actor Martin Clunes. He was in Men Behaving Badly. Had a huge hit. It was so popular. That show Doc Martin that he did down in Cornwall.

Did you see that one? That's a double whammy of milk tray boxes, isn't it? Yes, it really down in Cornwall. Did you see that one? That's a double whammy of milk tray boxes, isn't it? Yes, it really is. Cornish irascible GP. And yes, he was a very odd character in Doc Martin. He was really spectacularly

grumpy, but as ever rescued by an incredibly understanding female partner. How is it that these women just seem to exist, to stand by their man in spite of all his, I'm going to say personality idiosyncrasies. Anyway, I liked that show. It was very pleasing.

Now he's turned himself into, amongst many other things, a maker of travel shows for ITV. And he's done a series of films based around the islands of the Pacific and in the most recent series which is available on ITVX right now he has been to places that you don't normally see on these sorts of shows Papua New Guinea the Philippines and Guam he has also Fee and you as a dog lover will appreciate this has adopted a retired guide dog. And he heard about this retired guide dog when I interviewed the owner as the guide dog was about to retire.

So he then contacted the organisation, BBC, and basically, long story short, he took on this beautiful retired guide dog. Well, how lovely. Yeah, yeah. And he's got another couple of dogs who I can't really see very well either. Well, of course, the guide dog can't see. I'll tell you what, there's a slight flaw in the platform.

The guide dog can't see. All right, play the tape. Just play the tape. So let's focus on the islands of the Pacific. Actually, Martin, and I'm not just saying this because I'm talking to you, I watched all three of these documentaries in the second part of the series. And did you?

Well, bloody hell. I mean, I just realised how little I knew about this part of the world. Yeah. You'd obviously, when did you do the first three episodes? We sort of ran away 2019, I think, at the end of 2019. And then with the world doors slamming shut behind us, you know, as we skidded in. But that was the first time. But the second time around, I felt was a lot more, I don't know if you saw the first lot, but I mean, they were amazing. But this lot, I felt more embedded, certainly starting in Papua New Guinea and staying in the village with those guys felt very remote, very cut off. You know, there's no hotel to go back to at the end of the day and wash it off, if you know what

I mean. I knew the name Papua New Guinea and I knew the place Port Moresby. That was where my knowledge ended. You went somewhere much more obscure, didn't you? We did. We went to the Trobriand Islands because I'm a huge fan of from our own correspondent and I'd heard this guy talking about the Trobriand Islands when we were down on our hiatus and this incredible game of cricket that they have quite jammy really I end up playing with them a few months later but yeah it was it just felt really very different very different and sort of kicked the whole series off in a different way. Just put it into context for us. The Trobriand Islands are how close to the main Papua New Guinea island? Well, Papua New Guinea, there's the mainland and then the Trobriand's maybe like

400 miles. And then there's East New Britain, New Caledonia. There's all these island states that have been colonised at one time or another. Papua New Guinea was a colony of Australia, but they opted out and became a British colony. Far better value. Or so they believe. Your trip to the Trobriands, they really were living, I mean, to call it a simple life doesn't actually do it justice, does it? Just explain what living conditions are like there. It's like an awful lot of people around the world. It's called subsistence farming, where they literally grow and produce what they eat. And when it goes well, I think they're very satisfied. And they wonder,

I've even heard the, you know, the Yakel tribe who held the Duke of Edinburgh as a god. They said, what do you need all this money for? You've got shelter from the rains. You've got food, you've got company. What more do you know? We, I don't know, because, well, we need stuff, don't we? We're sort of stuff-led. What about the very real problems they have with, I mean, they have been hapless victims of other countries adventuring, haven't they? I mean, that's what actually comes across in all three of these programmes. Mining, mining ambitions, really, and minerals and resources.

Yeah, they have like lots of, an awful lot of places in the world. Yeah, I mean, Papua New Guinea up north on the mainland is even more remote than the Trobriants. And it's up there, there is a particular form of bovines, bungee fawn, BSE related to eating human brains. So that goes on up there. And there are tribal solutions to tribal problems, which we were kind of aware of a bit while we were there. But yes, they have been taken advantage of and their resources sort of pillaged and

sold for them. But I think, you know, there's always steps being taken by somebody to sort of, you know, redress that imbalance. But Port Moresby is one of the most dangerous cities in the world. In terms of levels of violence? Yeah. Any home of any size has razor wire around it. OK, right. I mean, it does make you appreciate the things we take for granted here. You're, at least superficially, and I don't know you well, Martin, but you're such a positive person. You try to find the best in circumstances and in people. Did you leave this series a bit less hopeful about the world? Because it did make me think

about just the damage we've done. We've done it to ourselves. Well, I mean, yeah, we are atrocious, aren't we? But then you meet the other people sort of tipping the tide the other way. And you think, well, actually, no, we are pretty gifted. But it's a sort of mop up operation. I don't know. It didn't. I did. Because there were so many, so many highs, you know, silly things like planting rice in a UNESCO World Heritage site. I just felt you lucky bastard to get to do that and you know with those laughy ladies and just to sort of see that stuff and to go to palau when we got lucky with the dugong because

everybody was you know we'd see people in the evenings and they said oh what are you guys going to film tomorrow we said well we're gonna we're gonna go out and film some dugong and they were going yeah right you know people have been out there looking for them for two weeks but just explain what they are they're these incredibly impressive but slightly recruised reclusive yes very reclusive they um but very social they have large family groups and they are um a south pacific version of a manatee or manatee uh yeah manatee um but they just they have a different tail design but they're yeah we got lucky because and that whole um the corals there the reef the diving was just beyond phenomenal but because the tourists haven't been there for two years so the dugongs were more confident i think to be out and about there's less

traffic there's more visibility um yeah it's just i felt very lucky and then sort of full of hope for them out there um and their island struggles i mean i'd you know then sort of full of hope for them out there and their island struggles. I mean, you know, I sort of collect people. I've got a load of beehives that I've sponsored in Tonga and lessons for lady beekeepers to up their food health, amongst other things in Tonga but so I gather as I go I sort of collect things and people and I'm still in touch with the guys in Palau and people yeah from Galapagos and as I go I don't use social media so it's sort of right yeah no I take your word for it is this you now are you going to travel the world being incredibly interested and enthusiastic about everything and everybody? It's not a bad way to earn a living, I've got to say.

I mean, you know, I have no expertise, but my job is to put the contributors at ease. I think that's that's the best I can do because we've researched them and we know they're interesting and have a good story so if I can tease that out of them then then I'm winning but I don't know Jane I'll probably I'll get caught one day um I don't know I don't know I because I've made all these series for ITV um and I don't know how ITV feels about this sort of series anymore but I've got why do you why do you say that because I mean they've clearly they've clearly got faith in you well they're but yeah they're very well that doesn't you can't rely on these things jane little run out yeah well that's showbiz i guess much more importantly um you're back at home at the moment and you live in dorset don't you martin yes i do yeah yeah and

um you have gathered at your feet right now and I've got to say they're behaving incredibly well. Aren't they? Yes just some of your animals just explain who you've got with you right now. I've got Laura Jean right at my feet and a sweetheart who's our retired guide dog that we have thanks to you. You better just explain that Martin, this is because of a... Okay, an amazing young lady called Jaina Mystery came on your life-changing programme and was talking about having to give up her guide dog that had given her her independence at such a critical time in her life and development and that the the the charity are really strict they come and take the harness away when the dog 11 is the max um so she must be knocking on 13. yeah um uh but but

because of covid that whole process had got delayed but uh and so i just i just emailed your program and said well you know we could give that dog a nice retirement here. And we used to have a black lab called Arthur. And I sort of got vetted and everything. And then Jaina and her mum and her sister and Laura all came down for a trial sleepover. Because we had four dogs at that time. And that all went well. And then we sort of passed the vetting. And then we waited for Jaina to get matched with her new dog.

And we made a little documentary about it as well as we were doing it. So, yeah, Laura's got a film. Her name's in the title, I think. Yes. She just loves it. She just runs for joy. You know, she sees deer and rabbits and things, and she just knows to the ground she loves it. So is it possible then, just for the benefit of anybody else who'd like to get involved, anyone can,

as long as they pass all the tests, they can take on a retired guide dog? Yes, and I thoroughly recommend it. It's a great thing to do. But yeah, there's quite a long, you know, there's a long waiting list. It's sort of like a certain type of rider wants a retired police horse because they're kind of bomb proof sure and you don't you wouldn't have to invest having your socks chewed by a puppy you know

with the whole puppy thing okay well let's hope we get a couple more people interested in doing that and i know you've also got another couple of dogs with you um and let's let's just bring on a little bit of let's just increase the sentiment levels um because you've got two two very very sweet other are they they're spaniels aren't they they're cocker spaniels i don't know where heidi may's gone there's bob jackson uh crashed out yes i think he's had a big lunch he's's had a big, fantastic old Bob. He's terrific. We had, one of the nicest things that ever happened to us, we had a litter of seven puppies, seven little Cocker Spaniels.

It was just gorgeous, gorgeous. And you just kept Bob. He was going to be blind. His mum went blind and we took her eyes out, actually, because they were really sore as well as not working. And that that made life much better for her although it seems a bit drastic but bob we're hoping to keep his eyes but he's losing his sight right okay so how does the blind cocker spaniel manage things is she all right well we're really well placed here because our house is in the middle, we've got about 130 acres and the house is right in the middle of them. And we built a track for riding and carriage driving and all the things that we like to do.

And it's three and a half kilometres. It goes round and they can feel when they're on or off it. So we just go for a walk and they kind of, they know their way around. I mean, Heidi sometimes gets a little, goes in the wrong direction, but she gets, yeah, they get on fine. Good. Well, I'm very much, I'm very glad to hear it. So the next series you're doing, The Islands of the Atlantic. Yes.

And when will that be broadcast? Well, I don't know. I don't know. You don't seem very certain of your prospects at itv i'm very worried for you you're a very successful man well you're in a difficult age um that i don't know we never know when they're going to put it out i mean they they sat on this second island of the pacific for ages um but i've been to uh gu Guinea-Bissau and Santa Maria and the Bejagos Islands and then next week I'm going to Madeira and the Azores and then after that we go to the Faroes and Greenland.

Well, I mean, I'll attempt a serious question. Is it because you think that perhaps the TV channels are getting a bit squeamish about the notion of white middle class men visiting foreign parts? It's as simple as that. Is it? I hadn't attached a colour prejudice to it. I'm just wondering whether that might be an issue. I don't know. No, I don't know.

I don't know. Maybe, you know, the minute somebody thinks they know something about television they're wrong aren't they or any broadcast or media sort of thing. I don't know, I don't know, I yeah maybe I don't know because I'm white. Is the drama a thing of the past or are you going to go back to some more dramatic roles? No, so we just made one at the end of last year about a farmer and his family. It's really dark, who, along with all the threats that farming is facing, have this county lines drug-dealing business model coming at them as well,

because the farmer has a teenage son. And that's coming out out I don't know again I'm not in the scheduling in but that we made that we make me and my wife make most of the things I do and is that is that for ITV or is that for that's for yes called out there. Yeah, it's really good. But it's pretty dark. And you play the farmer. Yeah. Yeah. Right. OK. That does that does sound like a fresh take on a on an interesting topic. OK, I'll be I'll be watching that. It is actually because we shot it all in Wales, which is in the Usk Valley mainly, absolutely beautiful, really breathtakingly beautiful. And because of the nature of the story,

the land was sort of a part of it and the photography of the land was a part of it. So, you know, I think it's, yeah, it's different. But because since having a farm, you know, knowing how to drive a tractor, I've had various people have various ideas, you know, about comedies, this and whatever like that. It never really felt right, but this one really did feel right. And it's by the same, we did a couple of series of about

the policeman Colin Sutton called Man Hunt, and it's the same writer and director team. and it's the same writer and director team that we've worked with. And just from your perspective as somebody who has, you've got a farm, I mean, it's been such a wet winter and a dire spring and so much waterlogged, just sodden ground everywhere. Is it like that with you? Well, we're just sort of coming out of it just the last few days. But there was no more absorbency left in the ground.

We're on a hill, quite luckily, so things kind of roll off. But the horses just know that we get mud fever in their feet and cows get all their feet get all clagged up. It's been terrible, really terrible. Do you think there's as much sympathy as there should be for farmers? Empathy? I don't know. I mean, smallholders are sort of just a thing of the past, really. You have to consider it as a way of supporting an outdoor life, of it it's a consider it as a way of supporting an outdoor life um is to just do that and break even um i mean we tried to make ours wash its face and never have um but there's you know there's the industries around it contractors or people with who own a tractor and some things to put

on the back of it who always find work um but yeah i think i mean i think jeremy clarkson's done a great thing with his making his his programme so entertaining, but also highlighting what that, and he's got thousands of acres. And if he can't make it pay, I don't know. one about Guam gosh it was actually really sad it was a place that has just been completely Americanized and there's a sort of tragedy there actually it's it's actually a bit bleak anyway um well worth seeing uh love your emails keep them coming thank you very much what's the address it is janeandfee at times.radio and in this week's bumper selection of Off Air Podcasts we will be discussing the Book Club book. So I hope you can stay downloading us till then. You did it.

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