Off Air... with Jane and Fi - There was no Clearblue back in the caves (with Julian Clary)

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

Jane’s got big news from her Pilates class, so keep an ear out for that... They also cover estate agent lingo, including north-south-facing houses, rogue bus driving experiences, rare-verging on impossible-photographs of Neanderthals, and the trouble with having a very strong sense of smell. Plus, comedian and actor Julian Clary discusses performing at the Henley Festival. You can check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndFiOur new playlist 'Coiled Spring' is up and running: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4tmoCpbp42ae7R1UY8ofzaOur most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Right, welcome. It's Tuesday where we are in our time. We're doing in our time? I didn't realize that. We will eventually. What's the subject? Is it? I did listen to one of the ones who's about charcoal. Was it? Charcoal. I don't know why I'm laughing. It's a very, very important part of the national fabric of our national fabric. It is, isn't it? It's part of the weft and heft of British life.

Yes. and one of the most downloaded podcasts. But I think, is there a mechanism by which you can... Oh, I know what you're going to say. Check that everybody has listened to the end of a download. You are a cheeky person for suggesting. I know. I know. That's really wrong.

No, I just think it's one of those programs very much like this one, Jane, which people might put on late in the day. So they may not always hear the end. That's all I'm saying. I think it's an extraordinary programme. There is a heightened atmosphere here at times to us today because somebody's giving away free biscuits in the canteen. And honestly, the enthusiasm on display

from people who don't always display enthusiasm, if I'm honest, is, well, it's almost embarrassing. People just love a freebie, don't they? I mean, I was there myself. I don't even like this particular brand of biscuit. Did you take one or two packs? I just took one pack for the team. Okay, well, there are only two biscuits in each one pack? and the team is six of us.

Well, yeah, but it was a generous act on my part because I won't be eating them. So you're going to split, do you want to split a biscuit, Eve? That's what you should look forward to a little bit later, isn't it? I took two packs, Jane. Oh, did you? I didn't know. To be fair, I didn't know, you could have two packs,

I'll go back for another one. Yeah, right. I can't believe this from Anonymous. I've been with you since the start. That's not the bit I can't believe, although I am incredibly impressed by that. I've been catching up with your conversations about weddings. Couldn't resist sharing this one with you

on a visit a number of years ago. go to my local framers in Surrey. Do you have a framer? I do have a framer. I do have a framer. I overheard an amusing conversation as she continues. A man had been into the framers that week with a wedding dress asking for it to be framed, full length carefully pinned the backing card, showing it off in its full glory. I thought it was a bit unusual, but then when asked if his wife knew he was having it framed or was it going to be a surprise, he answered, neither she left me. It wasn't the punchline I was expecting. That's incredible, isn't it?

Yeah, just an illustration of how very strange the world can be. Yeah, you just wonder where he's going to put that. Is it going to be the first thing that he sees when he comes into his abode? Gosh. Is it up in his bedroom? What's going on there? Perhaps we wouldn't want to explore. No, maybe not, but also... All the recesses.

I tell you what, that's going to cost him. But it will cost him. I mean, proper framing. It really does cost you. Oh, you're right there. I dread to think how much it costs as a frame is. sorry. My goodness me. You're right. It's one of those little areas of our life that it's surprisingly pricey, isn't it? It is. But if you've got the money, it's always well worth doing.

Because if you try and do it yourself and you go to the well-known Swedish store on a Sunday, and you buy 75 different frames, along with some tea lights. Never leave without your tea lights. Never. And then you get home and it's just, I've got a whole stack of frames under. my desk at home. And it's just, you know, it's in exactly the same category as I used to buy dress patterns and think that I'd make that on a wet Sunday afternoon.

And I never did. Right. Well, he got plenty of wet Sunday afternoons in prospect, I would have thought. I know, but did you ever think, I remember somebody wrote when the Haberdastery Department finally shut in the big John Lewis in Oxford Street that she was actually relieved.

It was a female columnist. and I'm sorry I can't remember which one it was, but she was relieved that it had closed because she too had just bought so much stuff, thinking, yes, I'm definitely going to do you. I'm going to make that bias cut skirt out of jumbo corduroy next Sunday. And of course, you might cut it and pin it,

but you don't finish it. And then something goes wrong with the zip. I've got a whole basket of things I've had a huff with. Well, I didn't actually know that you could. I mean, would you like to make me a little frock? I tell you what, Jane. You wouldn't want me to make you a little frog. It was, I'm just shitter.

Well, you sound a lot better than me. And don't let me frame your pictures, I think, is that my work. Kate's got a smelly husband. I was listening to the email from Thursday's episode about how we all have an individual scent and can confirm this is correct, although it's not always a good smell. Both times I've been pregnant,

I've developed a phenomenal sense of smell. Did you, when you were pregnant? I can't remember that, actually. Don't think so. The only real reaction, I had was that I've never again have I ever drunk Earl Grey tea. I was repulsed by it and I've never gone back. Gosh, what about Lady Jane? No, Lady Grey. Lady Grey. Lady Jane Grey. She met a sad end. No, no. What is Lady Grey? Lady Grey is an even more, oh, it's disgusting. It's a really, really wet Nelly of a tea that Lady Grey.

Yeah, it's a little dreadful. I always find with the Earl Grey tea bites. You've been. You need about three of them to make a cup, don't you? I can't even really hear the expression. They're very, very weedy. Yes, they're really weedy. I mean, I'm now lifting 4K at 4 kilograms at Pilates. Are you? Yeah.

When I lie down, I'm onto the 4KG weight. Okay. It's the talk of the locality. Just the one or just one big weight? Just the one, because you move it to your other hand. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, just the one. I could do to it.

No, let's rejoin Kate. Both times I've been pregnant, says Kate. I've developed a phenomenal sense of smell to the point I could smell anybody in close proximity to me. Unfortunately, I found my husband's smell particularly repulsive. There's an irony here, isn't it? Despite him having good hygiene in brackets and could even smell of he'd recently been in the room

and would have to open the window to air it out. Poor bloke. Thankfully, both times. my smell has gone back to normal and there's been no long-term detriment to our relationship but I wondered if anybody else had had this too well let's pop that out there to the hive I'm sure some people do and the enhanced smell during pregnancy is actually one of those very very clever primordial things isn't it it's meant to be because you know back in the day you would have to be so much more careful of yourself when you become pregnant and maybe you wouldn't you know you didn't you didn't have the little blue line

you needed to pee on all of that kind of stuff, obviously back in the cave. So it's believed to have been nature's way of alerting you to the fact that you were pregnant and that you needed to take greater care of yourself. How fantastic. Did you have a heightened sense of smell yourself? Yes, I think I probably did, but then I've... You're living in East London at the time. That must have been very difficult.

What do you mean? What do you mean? With all the pongs that one associates with that part of our capital. I don't accept that. Okay, right. Well, anyway, tell me more about it. But no, I mean, you're right. But I think that, you know, the tropes that you're referring to of the East End have gone. Now you smell an awful lot of weed, which I think you probably smell in your part of town.

I think that's why I eat so much when I get in from work. Because I've stoned. Because I come out of the tube station and it's, well. And I, you know, it's just incredible. Let's just be honest, it's just incredible. It is incredible. The thing that I find, really. really mind-boggling is, obviously, I'm walking Nancy very early in the morning,

and there are so many people having a great big, fat, king-size risler, you know, bouncing up and down, so when they're not bouncing, they're walking quite slowly. I was going to say they're bouncing, will they? Meantro. Looping. Yeah, and you do think, wow. That's quite a way to start your Tuesday, isn't it? No, it is. I'd at least wait for this morning to come on. For my help, actually. I should say, of course, it is completely illegal.

It is. It's illegal. Yes, it is illegal. It continues to be illegal. But I don't think that I'd ever stop somebody in East London and point that out to them. But it's an overwhelming smell. It's much, much nicer than cigarettes, though. So if I walk past somebody at 7.30 in the morning,

is having a fag. That really, really makes me want to wretch. What's a lovely thought, everybody. Anyway, don't be rude about my hood. Remember, it's a very lovely neighbourhood. It's the kind of neighbourhood that you want to buy a house in, Jane. Oh, God, yes. I mean, the smell you do get used to it

very, very quickly. It's got a lovely west facing aspect. Yes. Very desirable road. Now, what does that mean, actually? Does that mean you get the sun in the morning or the afternoon? I struggle with directions. Yeah, it's a very good point.

And actually, one of the houses that I went to look at was described as being north-south-facing. Oh, you can't have it both ways! And I just thought, you absolute dicks. You're lying! When you look at what you're done there What? It just doesn't make any sense at all. So this is a very interesting area to me.

So when you go and visit a property, what attracts you and have the current owners made efforts? So have they cleared up? Is there any clutter? Is it beautifully scented? What's going on? It depends. It really depends.

So I have seen some shockers. Some real shockers. Not nasty loos and things like that. You know, smelly and... very untidy and you know piles of washing up just left in the kitchen sink. So no effort made at all? No, absolutely none.

And then I've seen some houses that are just polished to perfection where you just think how can you still be living here? You know, all of the photographs have gone all of the clutter's gone. You are meant, am I right? Are you meant to take away all your photos? I don't, I think it's entirely up to you. I mean, I'm always going to look round at an open house where there's an estate agent there or with an estate agent.

but I don't know what you do with the slightly newer estate agencies where you're in charge of doing all of the viewings yourself. I don't know whether they're giving a different type of advice. I mean, the agent's meant to stick with the person going round all the time to make sure everything is okay. And that you're not pinching anything. No, but if you've got a curious bent in you, it's hard not to look at people's stuff.

Oh, by the way, Julian Clary is our guest today. Just come into my head there. He won't mind the innuendo. He certainly won't. He glories in it. Of all of the guests that we've ever had on the programme. Julian Clarey won't mind that. But yes, it is quite intriguing and it becomes quite addictive looking at houses

and then you can't really decide and then you can't remember which one you've seen. And then, you know, you're wondering whether or not you do want a north-south-facing aspect or a beautiful bay window or something that's rare to the market. What does that mean? Is that a new phrase? I think it just means it just means it hasn't been on. the market for a very long time? You know, those types, I don't know.

It's all so full of cliche. It's just rubbish. I'd love it if I just looked at a set of particulars and it just had one word underneath. It just said, great shit, whatever. You know, all of that blur. It's just like, who's reading through that? Someone's writing it for it?

Well, I think AI's writing. Oh, God, yeah, of course, silly me. Humans are dying out, aren't they? It's a very funny article today about, it's not funny, it's actually very thoughtful about how Neanderthals where nowhere near as dozy and indeed as thick as us homo sapiens like to describe them

and it's been illustrated by a picture of a Neanderthal looking thoughtful. Now, I mean there are no photographs of Neanderthals. There can't be, can there? But it did pass through my dopey human mind. I wonder how they got that photo. Then I realised, no, Jane. Not a photo.

How do they know that they weren't stupid? Oh, I don't know. I haven't finished it. Oh, okay. I haven't placed the article. So I've got a curious mind, but I don't always complete thoughts. Okay, we'll come back to you all on that one tomorrow. But it knows the illustration that I really love because the Neanderthal chap, I think it's a chap,

is looking very sort of inquisitive. Yeah, he's quite attractive. I mean, if I saw that on hinge. I would, certainly, yeah, absolutely, you're right. I would have sent a message. We want to both say huge thanks to Sarah, who says, we must stop putting ourselves down about our book. Okay, we're going to stop it.

I've had it for several years, but not read for a while. And today, having finished a current read, I'd just done some gardening. I needed to sit down in the sun with a copper. I found the book on the shelf, and I've been dipping in. Honestly, it's a good read. Thank you very much, Sarah. What's it called? Did I say that out loud?

Still available. It certainly is. In quite a lot of charity shops. It'll be available for some time. We've got copies if you need them. Yeah, absolutely. Now, can we just clear up something that... About your swearing.

Well, I didn't mean to do it, but it's been doubly cleared up. But apologies to anybody who thought that I said the C word during the episode on the 23rd. I think the title was Lady Car. Was that in the title? No. But it was in the lady car segment on the 23rd. Jonathan is writing this. During the discussion about seatbelt height,

Fee starts to say cuts uncomfortably and is slightly interrupted. by Jane and then repeats the phrase unfortunately adding an N. Well, I didn't, obviously, I didn't mean to do that and Jane wouldn't, Jane wouldn't mean to interrupt me at all. In case anyone clips this, you might want to tiny edit in the online podcast. It's not as bad as I've got his hat on episode,

which will park, John, parking parking. That's very much in a long... It's in a long stay car park. It's in one of those outer ring road at a car park. Anyway, Eve has tidied it up, so please don't worry about it, and I'm very sorry. But you do say... Excuse me, she's so embarrassed, she can't speak. But somebody else had said that I'd made a habit of saying that

because I'd done Jeremy Hunt the thing that often happens with Jeremy Hunt. And actually, that's not true, Jane. No, you haven't done it. Because Rosie and I went to cover his election night, thing of me, Jiggy Wattsett, And we practiced on the train down a lot because it's very difficult to say Jeremy Hunt's constituency without falling into that terrible trap and we didn't say it at all.

We didn't do it. Other broadcasters have done it. Other broadcasters have done it more than once. Yeah. And it's almost like they... Do you think they're doing it deliberately? It's a possibility, isn't it? We could have a fiery feminist debate about this,

so-called rudest word of all. I do think it's interesting because I don't use it myself. And actually, I really don't like it when other people use it to describe men who've been dreadful. Because I just think, well, don't call them that. Call them a male-appropriate, sweary word. Why use that one? Because the fact its status as a really rude word, that in itself is misogyny.

That's it. That's the most glaring illustration of misogyny that you could ever have, I think. So stop it. Because it's reducing women to just one body part in a very coarse way. No, why should that old Anglo-Saxon word for vagina be the rudest word? Yeah. Why? Why should it? We've all started there.

Even I know that. I didn't finish that article about Neanderthals, but very few of us have begun life anywhere else other than in there. Obviously, IVF is a slightly different? You don't need to qualify. We absolutely understand. You know what I'm saying. I do understand.

Yeah, I think it's very, I'm with you on this, I think it's a very, very coarse word, it's very harsh, and I don't, I really, the reclaiming of it, I... Yes, I know what you mean, I'm also a bit uneasy, because I don't want to use it myself. Exactly, I don't want to out there. We're both at sixes and sevens here, aren't we? Six seven, six, seven. No, we're not. Don't do that. But we'd welcome your thoughts, genuinely, I'd welcome your thoughts on, first of all, have you ever dated any and at all?

And secondly, what do you think about? that word and its status as the so-called rudest word in our armory. Do you think that the time has come for a little bit of a relaxation on the broadcast rules around swearing? Because it's very weird, Jane. We are, you know, we're of a dying breed in our off-com regulated, balance your journalism, sit up straight, kind of broadcasting and actually our kids and certainly their kids will get most of their content through a phone, through social media, really ungoverned stuff. So the language that's out there, the vernacular, has just changed. And sometimes I'm not a huge, you know, I don't love swearing,

but sometimes, I mean, we have to apologise here, don't we, if on air. A guest says something. Yeah. Yeah. And it's actually even very mild terminology. I think somebody said, sod off the other day. We did have to apologise for that. And I just don't, I don't know, is it kind of the beginning of the end if you do relax your rules

about broadcasting or is it actually going to be more welcoming and not put up a barrier to a younger generation? Because some of them must think it's quite odd that we speak in a completely different way. I don't think I'm ready to have a

free-for-all in terms of foul language on the airways. Not free for all, but when we apologise to things like that, I think for every person we please in that apology there's someone who thinks, oh, just get on with it. It's quite odd, isn't it?

Because you always say, I'm really sorry if you've been offended. I mean, you must remember those people who haven't been offended. But you have to take up valuable time apologising to those people who are offended. Yeah. I don't know. I'd rather we didn't swear on the radio.

Podcasts slightly different. I mean effing and jeffing has definitely been a part of our conversation over the years. You like to be filthy. Fruity? Fruity. Filty. Your Irish accent is not as good as you're Australian. It really is not good at all, isn't it?

Please let's go ahead and mention Sue. I've been entertained by your conversations about jigsaws in recent podcasts. I loved jigsaws when I was a child. Once I'd completed one, I would turn the pieces over and do it again on the blank side. Now, Sue, I mean, that, well, I don't know, but that puts you, Sue, in a whole, you're in a category of your own there, and I mean that with real respect. I don't know whether you had a television at home growing up, but whether you played out with friends or whether you just stayed in with your jigsaws. And I speak as the mother of a jigsaw fanatic. So I'm in no way dissing the jigsaw community. But that is, that's quite extraordinary to do it on the blank side. And what a task that must be. How long does your jigsaw-o-o-fichonado child leave the completed jigsaw before ripping it up? Well, she's the one who doesn't live at home,

so it's a flatmate you'd have to ask about that. I honestly don't understand how anybody can tolerate it. But when she was jigsawing back at home, did it stay for kind of a week in celebration? It could be a week if she'd do it upstairs, you see. Private times. Okay. Because it must be very painful once you don't,

especially a thousand people. When do you do that ripping up? Very satisfying. I want to make clear, you know, she has a life, not a recluse. But she does love a jigsaw. And I think it is mainly, it is a very mindful thing to do. It really is. But Sue, genuinely, the skill set required the patience you will have needed to do the blank side.

For a child to do that, that's remarkable. It is, really remarkable. I mean, we don't know how many pieces were in that. It might be one of those six pieces. Start with Bob the builder. Six pieces. Well, I mean, there's a time in everybody's life where that's a whole Wednesday morning sorted.

Oh, God, tell me about it. Do you remember the... Because sometimes there'd be free gifts pinned to the front of children's magazines. And that would wide away a good seven or eight minutes if you managed to get the magazine with the free gift. I was very, very attracted to those. Well, the children were.

And I always just gave in because I thought, it's a kind of a book. So yes, they can have it. But some of those free gifts fell apart very quickly. They really did. They didn't have stamina. No, they didn't have any stamina at all. Volvo had nine women designing a car

and the common sense features were like nothing we've seen before. It's the headline on a fantastic article that has been sent to us by Sally regarding our conversation about women designing cars that suit women. And we're really, really grateful to you for sending this, Sally, because it's just phenomenal. So this is back in 2002, a group of female Volvo designers, engineers,

and marketing professionals went to a seminar at the company to learn how they could improve their reach to female customers. What they learned, Volvo Shab, was that women purchase about 65% of cars and influence about 80% of all car sales, but for a century,

men have made most of the decisions in the design, development, and production of a car. So hold on to that. thought. 120 people worked on the project. The Volvo YCC project leadership team, though, it was made out of nine women. And we should name-check them all. So here we go.

Lena Eccalund, Anna Rosen, Maria Widdell Christensen, Camilla Palmots, Tatiana Butchievich, Tem, Eva Lisa Anderson, Elner-Honberg, Maria Ugler and Cynthia Charwick. The developments included movable backseats for more storage, gulwing doors that make it easier to load and unload larger items and children, a seat that tailors itself to your body's needs, specialised compartments, and a split headrest for a ponytail. Wiper fluid and gas would be reachable directly from outside of the car without having to open the hood or the gas cap.

The car would steer parallel parking itself. Wow, that's a winner for you. And would have heel adjust capability so that women wearing heels could angle their feet appropriately to accelerate amongst many other features. Some of the coverage of the Volvo YCC, often written by men at the time, also approached the car with some degree of condescension. Amaze me. One article shared that it was all very touchy-feely and almost more of a break-with tradition

than the Women's Institute members stripping off for a calendar. Okay. Another interviewer asked if men would feel comfortable in the car. Well, bless them. Well, you've got to bear that in mind. But the car was never produced. It still became an innovative and important foray into design by women and for women.

As Eccalund said, at the time of the car's debut, the hallmark of a good idea is that people ask why this hasn't been done before. And the article finishes by saying maybe there's another one to come in the future. It sounds absolutely brilliant, Jane. And I mean, just to go back to that initial statistic,

if we're buying most of the cars, if we're responsible for that purchase within a household, then why didn't the Volvo YCC, a concept car that was only ever shown at the Geneva International Motor Show in 2004, I think by the time they've done it, why didn't someone say, well, this is how a car should be? If most cars are being bought by women, why did it have to just stay as a prototype?

Really bewildering, I don't understand that. Because usually money talks. What's happened? Almost always. It sounds terrific though. I love the thought that's gone into that. It's good to acknowledge the work of those fine women. Linda is in San Jose in California.

She says, I discovered your lovely podcast after seeing a US television interview of you both. I don't know what that was. What was that? Never mind. You've kept me sane from COVID to Trump Squared. I'm now on a UK tour and I burst out laughing in a public restroom

when I saw the real deal cat's ass toilet tissue dispense. answer. Fortunately, no one else was there. I think I'm a scruncher. Okay, well, I think you've outed yourself. She says, I'm glad to be part of the hive, Linda from San Jose. Well, Linda, great to have you on board. Thank you very much. I hope you're enjoying your trip around the UK and our public restrooms continue to give you joy. And I'm glad that you're a fellow scruncher. Yeah. I have tried folding, but it's not as satisfying. It isn't at all. It never is. So many of you have had rogue bus driving experiences

And they're all just, it's just really heartening Really, really heartening Do you know what? This has proved to be a surprisingly cock or warming category of email. Hasn't it just? Katerina tells us about a bus in Hanwell Heading towards Boston Manor Station quite a few years ago As we were leaving the stop,

Some car came at full speed from behind and cut off the bus. The driver clearly saw red And while screaming at him, took up in pursuit while we the passengers held on for dear life no pinging of bells made him stop as he shouted I'll give you a refund while stepping on the accelerator much back and forth while doing our best not to slide off the plastic seats and he came to a halt a couple of stops past the tube station

the passengers ended up reassuring him and telling him to take a minute well that's absolutely brilliant Angela who's in Gidea Park part of Romford and Angela says in brackets yes I heard you last week be rude about Romford if we were we're really sorry

people don't mess about it in Ronford. We didn't mean he might go to Ronford and not come back, Jane. Don't annoy them. I can't remember the exact bus number but I think I was going from Piccadilly to Earl's Court. But we don't need all the details, although I do like to know bus numbers.

Piccadilly to Wells Court. Well you think you'd be looking at... Oh, it could be the 137? No, that turns left down Sloan Street. I don't know. Right. And the reit goes through South Kensington where there's a small one-way system. The bus driver took a wrong turn where upon the

Passengers started to grumble amongst themselves. One woman was having none of it. Walked up to the driver and declared, slash barked, in a very loud middle class voice, you've gone the wrong way. The driver tried to get back on course, but then took another wrong turn, probably stressed by the situation and panicking.

The woman then took charge and proceeded to direct the hapless driver around the one-way system to get back into the Cromwell Road. Final one from Catherine. I'll never forget the bus driver in Sydney on Christmas Day, who checked with all of the people he picked up in the suburbs,

where they were working. And once we got into the city, he just drove around dropping us off at the hotels or restaurants we were heading to for our shifts. Now, what a gentleman? It gives me tingles. That's Christmas.

Isn't it just? 45 years ago on my gap here and the memory of his kindness still makes me feel warm and fuzzy. Well, we're all feeling warm and fuzzy with you, Catherine, who's a long-time listener, second-time emailer,

still holding on to that obo fee. No. He's gone. Oh, I'll get her an oboe for Christmas. Jane in Stockport has written. I love this. She's put in the end, have a wonderful week from Jane in Stockport.

And then in brackets, The New Berlin, according to an optimistic Guardian article in 2022. And featuring the UK's one and only museum dedicated to the hatting industry. Okay, I love that detail. Jane, thank you so much for that. She says,

Fee, big thanks for recommending London falling. She says, I've just binged on it in a couple of days and it's an absolutely incredible thought-provoking book. I still haven't quite finished it, but I would absolutely echo that. It's tremendous. You can get a whole of a copy, whether to read it or to listen. Go, go for it.

Are you reading? I'm reading. Yeah. Yeah, you gave me the book. Oh, of course. Sorry. Sorry. Quickly, I forget. You're reminiscing on school puddings brought back some painful memories. I went to a small village primary school where we'd sit

10 to a dinner table and two of the older children would serve out the days hot dinner to everyone on the table. Now, that really made me tingle because that was my first responsible job. When I was in junior four, but my primary school, I too, was a server. It was fabulous fee.

Because you got the food in a big tray, big metal tray, and you had to carve it up and give it to the breast of the table. I still think about that. I just felt so bloody terrific. Was it the power? It was. It was. It was the power.

Mondays was always chicken supreme with fried bread And most days we had a giant wedge Of some sort of sponge with coloured custer From a giant metal jug I was the youngest on our table And so the servers always served me first Which might seem like a kindness However this meant that as the custard was poured over

My unnecessarily enormous piece of sponge I would watch with horrified dread As yes That rubbery layer of skin Clung the rim of the jug before collapsing onto my pudding with a vicious slap. She says, I just didn't dare to ask them to scrape off the skin before pouring it, and I've never been able to eat custard since.

If you're little, if you're little on the table, you're not going to ask the big girls to get rid of the skin for you, are you just not? No, you're not at all. Fried bread, it's just gone, hasn't it? Sometimes it's called a crouton. Oh, God, but croutons are really hard little things, aren't they? But fried bread, I don't think if you have a full English breakfast. I can't remember the last time I've seen fried bread on the plate.

Do you know what? I had a very nice slice of fried bread at a brunch we had when we were trying to be, we were being lured over here by our current employers. Do you not remember that? I don't, no. We had a lovely brunch. We did. It was a very smart restaurant.

I had a kedgerie. Yeah, you see, I didn't. I went for the full English because I just thought we may never see these people again, make them pay for the full thing. Okay, and you had fried bread there? I did. It did a fried bread, yeah. Anyway, as it happened, we did see them again.

I really like this from Joan. We are going to get on to Julian Clary next, but Joan says this weekend I was wandering through the beautiful gardens at Stockwood Discovery Centre, feeling a bit low at knowing that my beloved little dog is being put to sleep this week. And I was fighting back the tears and trying to come to terms of it being the kindest thing for him.

So I sat on a bench for a little sob and I noticed the plaque which read, in loving memory of Roland Wiggy Man Much missed gardener, fisherman, handyman, problem solver, hero, dad It was an old bench and the wood had been worn by the sun So I sat and told Wiggy all about my little dog Buddy And I swear I felt his arms creeping around me in a comforting hug Whoever he was dad to is a very lucky person

Thanks for listening Wiggy, you really helped Oh Joan, so sorry to hear about Buddy and well, just best of luck with the next couple of weeks because you're going to miss him. It sounds like you really are. Of course you are. But how lovely to sit on a warm bench and feel a kind of connection to somebody? And that's just exactly what those plaques are meant to do, isn't it? I know, I thought we were finished with benches, but every night and again

we just get a really lovely one. Keep on giving. Keep on giving. Do you know, I found myself this morning after I'd done the emails and all of that kind of stuff? You found yourself? No, I've never found myself. I've never found myself. I never want to actually. Never been to me? No, I think I'd be very disappointed. I'm not going to bother Jane. She couldn't get Nancy to walk today. And please don't worry about her, everybody.

I'm not telling you this story out of a sense of tiny violins and pity, but she's a very old dog now. And some morning she just can't get up the stairs in order to get out. And it's fine because we've got a garden at the back, so she can do her business in that. But she loves a walk. All dogs love a walk. So I find myself ordering a special ramp to go.

to go all the way up the stairs and then thinking is that a sensible path to go down because if I don't make her walk up any steps is it a bit like living in a bungalow that she'll completely and utterly lose the art of steps and I'll have to ramp everything so okay well perhaps the hive mind

there'll be some experts out there who'll know what the right thing to do is I don't know because the only other way that I can get her out is to put an enormous piece of meat you know, somewhere, but then she does wince a bit when she's trying to get to the meat. And obviously, I can't do that all the way around London fields. Or just hurling filet mignon

out of a handbag. Yeah, we call it the Helping Ham. Did he? I don't think that's sustainable either. No. So, yes, do ramps work, is a ramp sensible or should you just try and keep them going upstairs or whatever? Yeah.

Okay, yes, you can let us know what you think. Jane and Fee at times dot radio and we're going to now join the wonderful world of Julian Clary Julian Clary is here, good afternoon Julian I'll tell you what Julian we're just going to go straight to the plug that you're here to give and then we can see what else we can get on to because there's lots to talk about potentially

you are appearing at the Henley Festival in July what are you doing there well I haven't decided yet because it's a way comedy you know it'll be a nice gig because they're nice and clean in Henley, aren't they, I imagine. They'll be all smart and well-behaved. And I promise to turn up

and do some old nonsense, you know. Yeah, I didn't actually read an introduction to you. I'm sorry about that. I've called you a novelist and entertainer here. Oh, how nice. I think that's probably good enough, isn't it? Fine by me. Yeah, so you haven't played Henley before? Because Fee and I have done. We've done Henley, haven't we? Or the literary festival. Yes, we have. We've done the Henry, Henry, Literature. You've done Henry as well.

Festival. No, I don't think I have, actually. And it was quite a crowd. I mean, they were very, they were definitely very happy to be there. I think what slightly concerned us, we hadn't thought this through, there are quite a lot of ex-director generals of the BBC and at the time a current director general of the BBC who live in Henley. Oh, no. And I think their friends, maybe even, you know, their wives and partners, may have been in an audience when Jade and I were feeling a little bit virile about the BBC. Yeah, major beef. Proper fillet it was. Well, I've done the literary festival and I've done the art festival before as well. It's all delightful, so I'm happy to go back. Yeah. So that evening,

just to alert people, is on Sunday the 12th of July. I probably know more about it than Julian does. And it's at 1015. Oh, blimey. It's quite late, isn't it? Are you going to be all right at 1015? I might need a stimulant, might not? No, that'll be fine. Right. Okay. So an evening of comedy, hurry and book now, Julian is at the Henley Festival. I can't mention it again, but I will say it's the 12th of July at 10, 15 at night. So try and take the day off the next day, if you're like me, and you need an early night on a Sunday. You won't be able to get one that night.

Thank you. Okay, well, we've done that. Yes. And your novel, you've already written one because you were on here to talk about it. That was about the antics behind the scenes at the Panto, wasn't it? That's, well, no, at the Palladium. At the Palladium, do apologise, yes. And that was Curtain Call.

Curtain Call to Murder. This one is mid-morning murders, and it's about the world of daytime television. Yes. And I put a lot more murders in. I mean, this is not, this is sometime in the future as well. You can't buy it till October. You're like a guest from the future. I know.

I perhaps I should come back in September, but I'm not competing with Trump. Anyway, I'm still tweaking it. It's about to go off to the typesetters and I've amused myself. It says here, Miriam Margulies has already read it because she's already given a quote. That's the last one, but we did. Oh, utterly hilarious and thrillingly disgusting. Mm-hmm.

Right. So yes, it's comedy for me really writing. I like to make people laugh. I like the idea of people laughing when they're reading the books. But it is murder mystery as well. Okay. And it's set in daytime television, which is a trying world, isn't it? I imagine you've probably perched on quite a few daytime sofas, haven't you, over the years?

Yes, I have. I have. And this is a kind of mash-up of all of them. And the power that runs it and how Ruth, They are. The whole world of television really is quite ruthless and they don't really care about you. So that's what I wanted to get across. Who doesn't care? Management don't care about the stars or the talent don't care about their colleagues. What is it? All of them, I would have thought. Right. Okay.

Maybe they care about each other, the people in front of the camera. But it's quite a ruthless world. Yeah. Well, ruthless in the sense that, well, ratings are important. There's no good pretending they're not significant. Basically, if you're not pulling an audience, you get fired, don't you? Yeah, well, that's what my, in this, they're doing a kind of revisiting cold crimes as a strand in this daytime show and they find a serial killer, but they need another murder to happen in order to keep the viewers interested and needs must, you know. Oh my goodness, so things get properly grim. Yeah, I don't want to give it all away, but something like that. Right, okay. I know you, we've had quite a few conversations over the years about the phrase cozy crime. Yeah. Are you at ease with it?

I'm kind of satirise anything I do, so I'm satirising Cozy Crime in these books. They're in that genre, but there's no gingham curtains, and it's all quite rude as well. I think, you know, people underestimate the sort of people that read Cozy Crime, what they can take and what they really want. I think they've lived a life. They can take a bit of filth. Okay. Well, we don't want to get too excited about the book. I'm just looking. It's mid-morning murders by Julian Clary and you can buy it in the autumn. So it's one to put in the diary. Start saving your pennies now. By the way, if you're listening to the podcast version of this interview with Julian Clary, we're talking to Julian alongside the ceremonial welcome at the White House for the king and queen. I hope everybody now feels fully involved. Are you, would you describe yourself as a monarchist?

Well, I like the camp of it. So that keeps me going. And, you know, they mean no harm. But they are terribly rich. And I wouldn't mind if they handed some of that cash over. Well, it's interesting because in lots of interviews, you are, you do, you know, you out yourself as a right lefty. And you were, I think, quite keen on the idea of a Labour government. I mean, how are you feeling about this administration now?

A bit disappointed. Not turned out the way I wanted. But I don't think. I think I want to go green because I don't like his teeth, that man in charge. Zach Polanski. Don't like Zach's teeth. See, no, but that's unfair, isn't it? Because he's authentic, some would say.

Well, I live in Camden, which is Keer Stama's constituency. And he always seems pretty authentic to me. So why do you think, and it is routinely said, I have to say I'm not necessarily one of these people, that people don't like Kea Stama. Your average voter just doesn't take to the man. What do you think the problem is? Well, they're always criticised whoever's in power. It's always going to get it, aren't they?

The holiday doesn't last for long. He might be lacking a bit of charisma, perhaps. It was very good that first week when he started. Remember in question time, Prime Minister's questions when he had a... He was marvellous, and then that was it. It hasn't done much since then. Right. So he let you down.

I think that a lot of people point to the heating allowance as being a decision that they just didn't need to take really. I mean, they took it, and then they changed their minds. And it all just feels a little bit indecisive and flabby, doesn't it, really? Flappy, rather than Flappy. Yes. I mean, whatever they do is going to be wrong in a way at the moment. Last night, there was, always the night before, I'm not entirely certain. Time is no, no meaning in the course of this conversation, to be fair. Jimmy Kimmel is the American comedian who does one of those late-night chat shows. And he's in trouble for a joke he made about Malani. Do you know about this?

No. Okay, so late-night host Jimmy Kimmel has, this is the BBC's version, has defended a joke in which he called Melania Trump an expectant widow, just days before that shooting incident at the White House correspondence dinner. So Melania has complained, President Trump has complained, lots of people think it's in terribly bad taste. But, I mean, what do you think? Is it still possible to make gags about the Trumps? Or have we actually now just moved to a world beyond all that? It's hard. You know, I quite applaud them for finding some way in there because they're quite funny on their own. There's any words, isn't it? It's only a joke. Yeah, but some people find that a very unpleasant joke.

It made me smile when you said it. Right, okay. But does that make it all right? I don't know, Jane. Come on here to be grilled about this joke I've only just heard. No one was harmed, didn't it? Well, I mean, she didn't like it, obviously. No. I mean, I think I would defend it on the grounds.

I think it's a reference not to any shooting, which he didn't know about anyway because it hadn't occurred, but to the yawning great age gap between the happy couple. Oh, yes, that's one way around it, isn't it? Yeah, well, it's true. What do you think, for you? But isn't it also about the power that the current American political elite want to believe that they have,

and they do have it because of social media? So Malani can punt that out. there tap down Jimmy Kimmel and you know that millions of people might get on board with that and that to me is the slightly frightening element to it because I'm I mean she's not an elected person let's make that clear and I'm not sure that I want somebody who hasn't been elected to power to be able to use the power that's close to her to shut people down also they don't seem particularly close do they she doesn't seem like she's besotted with him.

So the word expectant widow might refer to that. Okay, I think, I think we'll, if that was going to appear in a tabloid, they would say that you'd come out defending Jimmy Kim or Julian, that's what they'd say there. Well, you know, we have to stick together. Okay, all comics have got to stick together. Absolutely. Now, I have enjoyed reading about your attempt to live in the countryside, which didn't do all you, what was it about it you didn't,

like. First of all, why did you think you'd ever like it? Well, it was all done on a whim, because I liked the house. I do like the countryside. You know, when it's bright and sunny, the thing is I never really committed to it. I always kept my place in Camden, so I was just dabbling in country life. And what drove me where, I think, I mean, I was there for 12 years, so I had a good crack at it. That's much longer than I thought, yeah. It was the mud, I think, and the lack of street lights. And There was one night I got up to go to the loo, and I looked out my bathroom window at about four in the morning. And my house was down a little lane, you know, there was no other traffic. And there was a car parked opposite my gate with someone sitting in it.

And I decided that someone was coming to kill me. Right. So I thought, why, better move. So that was alarming. You see, if it was in London and there was a car parked outside, you wouldn't even notice. Well, you'd know it was the local drug dealer, wouldn't you? So certainly if you live in our street, that's probably certainly what's happening. Yeah, in Camden as well.

It's okay. So that really genuinely spooked you to such an extent that you thought I can't do this anymore. It was part of it. I just realised my heart belongs in London. You know, I like the noise and the activity and the goings on. I live in a busy part of London. I like to sit at the kitchen and see things happening as opposed to nothing. Right.

Yes. I mean, that's the country. Sunmed up, isn't it really fee? Nothing. If you're listening in the countryside, let us know if anything has happened in the last, I don't know, 10 years you'd like to impart to us.

I wonder what it is about certain people that they are just not meant for the countryside. I take what you say about London because I'm not from London, but I do love being here on the whole because you're very rarely bored. There's always something going on and lots to complain about.

And it's good. You know, I don't go around asking people, their politics but it is quite right you know it's well-known fact quite right wing in the countryside and i like to know the person behind me in the queue at the supermarket is of my type of person okay how would they if they order a granary loaf you know you're on firm ground don't you yeah i might smile at them yes okay but a person who just wants a couple of white balm cakes you'd um you'd take exception to i'd follow them home and see if there's a union jack in their front garden Did you have any flags in any of your villages?

Yes. Okay, right. I think we're getting a little closer to the truth of what really happened in the countryside. I mean, but you can't agree with everybody, can you? It doesn't matter where you live. There must be some, there are some rabble rouses in Camden. That's true, yeah. That wasn't part of it.

I mean, I had a nice time for 12 years. I didn't run screaming. I just thought, oh, I'll move on now. And I was getting older, and I thought, oh, I ought to put my money in a pension. something. Right. Very sensible. How's the pension doing? Terrible. Is it? Oh, I'm sorry, but... No, Fee and I often spend private time together discussing how our pensions have suffered,

certainly in the last couple of weeks. I know, it's one disaster after another. I think that is a real mark of, I'm going to say, reaching maturity, when you do check in with your pension quite regularly to see how it is. My husband's got it on an app and he looks, I don't want to know at the moment. He sounds like this. Is he the sensible one of the two? He is, funnily enough. I was just hedging my bets, I wasn't entirely so. No, he is.

But I mean, he is not, he's resolutely on showbiz, isn't he? Oh, yes. I couldn't be doing with a showbiz person. Well, you say that, but there are some, just trying to think, there are some successful showbiz twosoms, aren't there? Yeah, no, I'm only talking about my own taste, but not saying it should be forbidden.

No, it should be illegal. No, no, it's nice, sort of, he's very funny, keeps me amused. He doesn't like being talked about, so I sort of tend to clam up. Shut this one. down, Jane. We'll move completely on. Can I ask you a question, do you know? Oh, Fee, you've barely contributed to this interview. Well, no, to be fair, we share out the

interviews. I know, she's got one eye on what's going on. Yeah, we do take it in turns and then one of us kind of pops in, you know, like an annoying magpine disturbs the nest. So here we go. Have you reached out to a younger audience? And, you know, if we went to one of your gigs and we did a little survey of who was there, would it be our generation? Would it be the younger generation, too who's coming to see julian clary it's mixed up since i did a taskmaster a couple of years ago and young people watch that and you can kind of spot the taskmaster fans sitting in the audience so that was nice same as years ago i did strictly and suddenly i got all silver-haired ladies sitting there you know that's what happens and do you find that you then uh not change your

material but are you thinking I need to say something that's going to be directly relevant to them or do you keep it absolutely solid Julian no I mean I just sort of ramble away about what's been going on in my life and so no I don't really fashion it to anyone in particular it's kind of my world and you're welcome to it when I'm on stage I think it's yeah I think that's the well that's the sign of a confident performer as well isn't it? What does a taskmaster member of the audience look like? I've never really understood taskmaster.

I've never seen that show. I haven't you? It's very popular with young people. Well, that explains why we haven't seen it. Well, they might be a bit gothy looking. They might wear a hoodie. They might have tattoos. Hard to generalise. But I can tell certainly when I meet them at the stage door.

I said, oh, I know what you're going to say. You saw me on taskmaster. And do you win on taskmaster? I think I came second. It doesn't really. It's a bizarre show where you get given tasks that you don't really understand. So it's just a comedic device really. Yes.

Yeah. What's the strangest thing that you've done or built or been part of on Taskmaster? On Taskmaster. What did I have to do? Oh, I think you had an obstacle course and you were in like an electric buggy thing and you had to pick up flags. And I just thought, well, I'll leave. So I just drove out of the shot and out of the field

And went to where I removed myself from that situation Right And still came second Yes Sounds a bit like a mobility scooter goes mad in Hastings It's got that man in charge Greg I want to say Wallace James

Greg Davis Oh David Get all the Gregs Big man Yes he's very tall He's sort of alpha male He's so he gives out the marks Oh well he yes

Because that's what you're allowed to do He's about six foot eight So he was put on this earth to give out marks. Julian, what are your plans for the summer? Are you always in Panto? Are you in Panto this Christmas? I will be, yes. So after your big gig in Henley on July the 12th, 1015,

will you be seeking sanctuary on some Greek island somewhere? Yes. Oh, no, not in July, I won't. No. No, I like being in London in the summer. Gosh, you really are keen on London, aren't you? My goodness. And I'll be writing the Panto by then.

so that's where my head will be. Right. And do you, how much of the Panto is topical, presumably as much as you can? Do you update it during the course of the run? Yes, if necessary. And we don't put topical stuff in until near the time. Right.

Do you ever have room for two small elves? I mean, Jane and are very much available over the Christmas season. We've never been asked. We've got French and Saunders this year. You could be understudies. Well, that is about the cruelest thing anyone could say. But it's also a compliment that we'd even be considered. Do you know what, Julian, that's very passag.

We're both going over to, going home now to have a cry. But it was good to see you, Julian. Thank you very much for coming in. Good luck with all your endeavours. Thank you very much. Whenever they may be. Julian Clary there. Are we going to decide our book club book sometime this week, Eve?

Announce it on Thursday? Okay. You don't need to whisper. your microphone on. People like you. Come on. We'll do the thing where we print out all the emails, everyone on the team, gets across them, and then we fight our case. Okay.

Oh, it sounds good. Yeah. At the fight on, I'm a celebrity. Let's do that. And the one thing that we also didn't tackle today was the Bobbles on Eve's jumper. When do you know when a jumper has gone beyond Bobble? I'm going to debobble it tonight and I'll let you know. Let's

judge it tomorrow as well. Okay. Are we going to see it again tomorrow? Well, yeah, because that's sad. Oh, we don't need to know about your midweek logistics. Well, let's have a before and after shot. Fun time skids. We've got to have something more interesting. We haven't.

No. We mine the delicious and the tiny on this podcast, and we love it. Do you think it's gone too far? No, not at all. No, I'm very intrigued. I think those debobblers are a rip-off. I think you can debobble once with them, and then I think they've just lost the bubble.

Well, your thoughts welcome. It's a world of pain and sometimes debobbling is right at the forefront of our minds where it belongs. Jane Fee at TimesDrop Radio take every care. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do it live every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale, and if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app.

Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.