Off Air... with Jane and Fi - They always pick on Scousers! (with Harlan Coben)

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

Mystic Garv is back and she's got some quite rogue predictions... There's also lots of vehicle-chat so keep your ears peeled for mentions of Ted Heath's yacht, motor-homes and the Times Radio election bus... Variety is the spice of life! Plus, Fi speaks to author Harlan Coben about his latest novel 'Think Twice'.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh, no, no, not Hogan. William Morris. William Morris? Yeah, there was a fabric. Was he a fabric designer? He was an amazing illustrator and designer. And he drank like a bloody fish. Do you know that proverb?

I don't know. Right, we were just discussing plans for election night there. I don't think, well, for security reasons, we can't say where we're going. There's a long straw and a short straw. Yeah. Jane has got a short straw. They always pick on Scousers.

No, they don't. Yeah,ousers. No, they don't. Yeah, they do. No, they don't. That's what's happened again. Well, sometimes it just pays to have roots in the South. Right. So, look, we've got to the end of the week, Jane Garvey. And thank you for all of your glorious emails.

Jane Garvey. And thank you for all of your glorious emails. And can I just get this one out of the way so we don't dwell too much on migraines, migraines. And that's only because I, you know, whatever. Carla starts her email off saying, my earliest political memory is of being around five. I had a china cup with a picture of the easter bunny on it that easter bunny was called ted heath i've got no idea why i've still got it and it's still ted

heath picture attached it's quite bizarre isn't it um sorry to hear about fee being slayed by a migraine i say migraine and appreciative of you being able to get to work and make sense the next day not really i've had meegs every few weeks from the age of 14. And in the worst month, I had seven. The impact on family and life can be huge and a bit like having a touch of flu. I'm not sure a bit of a migraine is a thing because they are awful. Mine are hemiplegic migraines. They start with an aura of sparkly pretty lights in my left eye, progress to a searingly painful head and numb face. And then finally, I lose the use of the left side of my body. Each stage lasts a few hours, and then it goes, leaving me feeling punched and hung over for a day or so. For years,

I crawled to bed with the strongest painkillers and a bottle of full fat Coke. Then about 10 years ago, I was prescribed some Matropan, a revelation and the only thing that's ever worked. It's a vile condition it's definitely hormonal as now i'm several years into perimenopause i rarely have one now hooray for aging unfortunately all three of my daughters seem to have inherited the problem thanks mum i think that's such a similar pattern and i agree completely about it being to do with your hormones mine have definitely been affected by those and i think there is a hereditary thing as well i know so many families where migraines migraines go all the way or just headaches generally yes they're not as bad as migraines migraines yeah so i'm

glad you found something that works for you carla and uh thank you for getting in touch and the ted heath i mean you know sometimes the world is better for having mysteries in it. And that cup is one of them. The name of Ted's Heath yacht was? Oh, I don't know. Good question. Morning Cloud. Morning Cloud? Yeah, I don't know why I've lodged that fact in my brain.

But you never know, somebody out there may have sailed with Ted Heath on Morning Cloud. If you are that person or you know someone who did it, hello, Sailor. We'd love to... Come on in. We'd love to hear from you. OK. Just a quick one from Sarah. My dad's a retired neurologist.

He told me once that it's me in British English, so migraine, and migraine in American. You can remember because it's the same as semi. It's semi here and semi in the US. I didn't know that. No, I didn't know they said semi. Oh, yeah, because they say semi-skimmed, don't they?

Do they? Yeah. OK, I didn't know that. Dear Jane and Fee, who's the mysterious Eve and why is she silent? She's only silent in this studio, Gene in New Zealand. Yeah, that's damn true. Her name is not on the list of producers at the end of the show, which is wrong eve it should

be shouldn't it would you like us to change that yes let's stamp our little feet until that changes she's often referred to on the podcast and i think once we heard her laugh she's quite often she's the master of the silent laugh because sometimes jane and i will look across to her and she's completely gone is she training to be a podcaster or is she employed to provide you both with victuals? We need to know. Well, Eve is a fully fledged producer. She sometimes produces the whole live show as well. And she does a very good job on the podcast here.

And she doesn't need to remain quite so silent. So we might drag her in from time to time. She's got a beautiful voice. She has. Actually, let's keep her out of it. People who don't know about the election is the title of this email from Tom. Yeah, you were wondering if there are people out there

who still don't know there's a British general election. Well, my brother is in his late 40s. He has a PhD and a very successful career. On polling date for the last general election, that was 2019, he rang me to ask what the election was about, how he should vote, and indeed wanted an explanation as to how the system worked. I explained to him that I couldn't tell him how to vote,

but I did explain about polling stations and where he needed to go. He listened to all this and then decided he'd think about voting the following day. Don't know where you go with that. I've no idea whether he went to a closed polling station the following morning. I also haven't brought up the forthcoming election with him. Some people just don't engage and I guess that's fine. He works in engineering. I work in PR.

He's more useful than me. Well, Tom, don't be hard on yourself out there in the world of the dizzy world of PR. But I see your point. Do you think that more people would turn out if the polling stations were open for a couple of days instead of just the one day? Oh, I haven't thought about that. Possibly. I wonder why we don't vote on a Sunday because lots of European countries do vote on Sundays, don't they? And then almost everybody will have no excuse on a Sunday. Well, I think it does go back to this very old decision

that Thursday was the best day of the week because it was before you got your pay packet and more people would be sober towards the end of the week and so they were more likely to make themselves available for democracy gosh i didn't know that well i have been told that and i've ingested it because i like the sound of the logic of that but i don't know whether it is actually true we can punt it out to our very intelligent listeners and somebody will know thomas usually writes a very good explainer for us.

So if you're out there, Thomas, we could do with some help on that one. Marie says, butting in on the price of coffee discussion. Well, you're never butting in. Out of sheer desperation as Gregg's was closed for a refit in the absence of any independent coffee shops, I recently popped into the rather pompously named, and I love this, Sir William de Wessington,

which is a branch of the spoonsoons in my hometown of Washington. They quite often have, because the Spoons near me is named after... Oh, what's his bloody name? Hogarth. Is it? Yes. Yeah. I thought once you got a roundabout, then you were done.

He's got a Spoons as well. Oh, no, no, not Hogarth. William Morris. William Morris? Yeah, there was a fabric. Was he a fabric designer? He was an amazing illustrator and designer. And he drank like a bloody fish.

Do you know that? I don't know. We might. Some of his dreamier fabrics. I think he came up with them after a couple of pints. Okay, we might strike that from the record. Well, no, because he's very well dead, isn't he? He is, but even so.

Do you think if I went on Ask Jeeves, there would be an answer to the question, did William Morris have a drink, take a drink? Was he a boozer? I don't know. But Marie's got more to tell us. We were put off by the 9am drinkers and ordered coffee, which was £1.56,

and it included free refills, and honestly, it wasn't too bad. Might as well fess up, we also had the small breakfast, bacon, sausage, egg, beans, and a hash brown for £4.45. It seemed rude not to. Well, I think, so you've got endless coffee and a decent breakfast for under £6. So as Jane was saying, that would only now buy you

one and a half cups of a flat white, wouldn't it? Yeah, it would. And actually, i think weather spoons do a really good job of giving let's be honest a warm place to go for certainly for older people who just fancy a coffee and that i mean that's really good value if you can keep on refilling your mug and they'll let you stay all morning and it gives you a chance to catch up with people or perhaps just gives you a chance not to be on your own what's not to like about that it's all right isn't it yeah and the breakfast does seem remarkably good value um to uh first political memory this is from anita who says my

first political memory is from poland i'm 19 and i've done my matura exams that's the equivalent of polish a levels we're leaving school in our smart outfits after one of the exams and we were given the leaflet about the first democratic election. It was due for the 4th of June 1989. I get emotional even now typing this message. I think people in this country just don't realise how it feels. They take this whole opportunity for granted. I grew up in a communist country, although I had an amazing childhood growing up at my parents' successful farm. I remember the lack of everything

from toothpaste to bananas. Basically, we only had vinegar on the shop shelves. The rest, you had to spend hours queuing or waiting for deliveries. That's probably, though, why I can make a nice meal from just about anything or rather from what we grow in the garden. But like I said, my childhood was amazing, but all I remember is that after that change, our shops filled with goods, stuff we could only see in catalogues sent from people living in America. It was just incredible.

This really is my first political memory, a glorious, warm, sunny day in 1989. I was young, naive, probably a bit arrogant in my white shirt and my black skirt, holding a leaflet which was the proof of a change in our lives, that says Anita. And that, you know, the point there is just that there is a lot of complacency in Britain. And we just because we don't know because we can't know. And it's no good even saying you know women wasn't total um total voting power given to people until 1928 but even if you say

that now people go oh they don't even know that do they uh no and actually I did an interview earlier on this week for the live show with a former Mexican government minister because obviously Mexico has elected its first female president and they didn't get universal suffrage, including women, until 1953. Do you know when French women got it? Last year? Not last year, but it's a good guess. No, I think it was after the Second World War, possibly 1947.

Right, and Switzerland was very late as well. That was the good guess. No, I think it was after the Second World War, possibly 47. Right, and Switzerland was very late as well. That was the 1960s, I think. Yes, well, Swiss women had all that. They had lots of other things to be doing. Like what? I don't know. Claire in Bristol says, I just thought I'd bring it to Fee's attention.

Are you ready for this? Because you hated this email this morning. That she's made it as the answer to the puzzle in the Sun newspaper this morning. So did you see that and you just thought you weren't going to draw attention to it? I don't puzzle in the Sun newspaper this morning. So did you see that and you just thought you weren't going to draw attention to it? I don't look at the Sun. Okay.

I don't take it. Right. Are you sure? What was the question? I don't know. Oh. Because I can't, my eyesight's not good enough to be able to read that. It's on a tiny kind of word search thing. Well, I'm here to tell you, sister, that we could go outside and find a copy of the newspaper.

Yes, we could. Yep, it would be there. No, it's not bother. It's nice. If it was about me, I would bother. Frame it, love. Right, our guest today is the thriller writer, Harlan Coburn, and you're quite a big fan, aren't you?

Well, I like his writing. Just to be completely honest, I don't read every single book that comes out by Harlan, but I think I've probably read about 10 of his oeuvre. Well, that's quite a lot. He's written 35 books, I think. And he's a guarantee. You know what you're getting.

That's what I love about it. So if you like that book where you just want to lose yourself for a couple of days in something, he's just very good at clamping the reader into a very twisty, turny plot. And I've really enjoyed some of his Netflix stuff. I think some people are a bit poo-poo-y about it. But Fool Me Once,

which was a huge hit on Netflix. That was with Michelle Keegan. Yes, yeah. We watched it as a family. We was with Michelle Keegan. Yes. We watched it as a family. We were gripped by it. It was just, I found it thoroughly, thoroughly entertaining. So he is our guest in a couple of moments time.

Yes, okay. This is from Anonymous who says, I was driving listening to yesterday's podcast and you read out an email from a woman who is trying to do her best for her aged mother whilst living elsewhere. Honestly, her description of her mother and her own situation perfectly describes my own although i live in another country but i'm also trying to do the best by and for my mother and it's really hard my own life is on hold i'm traveling back and forth please talk more about

this issue well we can't promise to talk about it the whole time but we just want to know that people who are in that situation not not only women we appreciate there are men in that situation too we we do know you're out there and we will most definitely return to the subject of care caring the responsibility and what politicians are or are not doing about it uh definitely right uh hang on a sec this was oh yes um Jane and Fee, this is from Will. Will discovered the Dune McKeegan radio show, Dune Your Way, and says it really is hilarious as expected. Thanks, he says, I think it's a thee, a he, a thee. Thanks for being great company here and in the other place. I don't normally read those out, but, you know, we're getting...

In the light of the passing of the great Steve Wright, we are occasionally just embracing him by indulging ourselves, by reading out nice things that people send us. Yeah, I thought it was very lovely at the Aria ceremony that we went to, which is the big give-a-gong thing for the radio and audio industry, that when the tribute to Steve came up on the big screen behind, it just said love the show because he did just you know that was the the tagline for the program wasn't it for so many

people that and the whatever it was with no g and i think that just has to remain with him doesn't it you can't do the what was he dj what did he call himself? DJ... Oh, God. Naughty Boy. No, DJ Soft Boy. Naughty Boy. Naughty Boy. Oh, God. With no G.

That's right. Jocking with no... Serious jocking with no G. Yep. I think you got that wrong, but anyway, never mind. Kath from Blairgowrie in Prathesha says, Hello, ladies. Whilst here in our motor home in Calladike

in the kingdom of Fife in Scotland. Yeah, why is it called that? Well, I mean, why not? It just rings true, doesn't it? The kingdom of Fife. I said to my husband, we could listen to my podcast. Yes, whatever, he replies.

He obviously wasn't expecting much. Then when he heard the dogs in prams chat, he was beside himself. As this is a total bone, no pun, of contention with him whilst i can see that the wee doggies might have some sort of ailment he thinks they're just lazy pampered pooches anyway he was happy enough to listen all the way through to the interview with the lovely dune who we know from two doors down in which she is hilarious next night put those two on again

they've got good chat oh i mean job done claire class cath sorry eve cath you're thinking of kathy and claire the jackie agony aunts we've talked about them this week uh we are delighted to have converted him and then she says would love a tote up here in barcha as sheffield is too far for me to travel even for you two so have we awarded the totes for this week, Eve? Parish notices coming through. Not just a pretty face. Tote winners are... I can't read her writing.

Tote winners are Michelle and Michelle, congratulations. Janet Scott, congratulations. And Anna Lee Jarrett and Lisa. Congratulations. Our book club pick, Arrow, I'm sorry. Arrow, our copy's having to arrive. I'll cross it all out, stick a pic on the Insta. Yeah, this is a note that really doesn't merit being read out.

Eve, that is shocking. Absolutely shocking. Yeah, the book is Susie Steiner's Missing Presumed. I'm throwing something at a junior member of staff. Well, you've been warned about that. Actually, you have. No, I have not. What was I going to say?

Something hugely important. Oh, yes, motorhomes. I am really intrigued by the idea, as Kath said there, that she was in her motorhome. I mean, she's so fortunate that she lives in Scotland anyway, so there are some fantastic places to visit. And I just don't really, if I'm honest, I'm intrigued by motorhome holiday couples. There were a couple when I was away in Greece the

week before last who parked up on the beach every night and um there's just just something slightly interesting about I mean it's is it I don't know is is it not just a very confined space I mean you must have to really like the person you're holidaying with in order to live that way that's what that's all i'm saying can you imagine yourself in that situation jay i've been as a child we had to do caravan holidays which you know i mean they just were clearly not for my mum in particular they were not a holiday in any form and the motorhome is is obviously the kind of souped up version of a caravan holiday isn't it it's a really i mean some of them are gorgeous but even the gorgeous ones are pretty small just the thought of cooking and sleeping doing your business in the same

in the same place there i couldn't do it there was I think it's the same couple, but it might not be, were actually surprising naturists. So one day on the beach... Oh, not this again. No, we just... They were naked on the beach, this couple. I don't know whether it was the motorhome couple. And then the woman got into the sea

and the bloke, who, you know, he wasn't Jack Grealish. He bent down to take a photograph of his missus and we had a really good view of proceedings. I'll just put it that way. It's just not good. OK. Keep your trousers on for a pair of speedos. Particularly if you're going to bend down on a beach.

I know. So, Eve and I, we have discussed naturism a lot in your absence because Mulkerran's intermittent Jane, she had done quite a few features discussed naturism a lot in your absence because Mulkerran's Intermittent Jane, she had done quite a few features about naturism for the Times magazine. Oh, yes, she had. Yes, and she'd had to go on long rambles and all that kind of stuff.

And for me, the Giegel point was, you know, when she described, you know, how men sit down, you know, a bit kind of... Well, not... I mean, I'm sitting here with my legs nicely crossed. Can I say very nicely? Thank you. And so are you. And that's helpful, I think, in a naturist colony.

So, yes, the motorhome, though. There's a little bit of me, I think probably under 1%, that thinks it would be lovely to have the freedom to be able to drive anywhere and park up anywhere and all of that. But that's not the reality as well, is it? I don't know. There must be all kinds. What about parking restrictions? Parking restrictions!

You can't just park anywhere and enjoy the view. No, you can't. Nor should you be able to. No. So you find yourself in amongst, don't you? Overnight. And I'm with you. The idea of just everything being tinier in a confined space that doesn't really work for me either but look we'd love to hear experiences yeah living in a motorhome and if you can get them in by next week because jane is off

on the times radio bus which is effectively a democracy motorhome and it's traveling around the country and jane is off to red car next week well it's pronounced red car jane is off to red car next week although i feel that as clearly i'm not from red car uh it would be more honest to call it red car rather than red car adopting a kind of local you know because that is really irritating isn't it when people do that anyway well i mean i'm irritating wherever I go, so it makes no difference, but yes, I'm there. I know what you mean, and it's the short A, long A, isn't it? It's when you say that somebody has

taken a very long bath in Newcastle. Yeah. It's just like the two things should add up. Shouldn't go together at all. So look, you'll be in an RV, you'll be in a motorhome. Yeah, but I'm not spending actually, they haven't told me whether I'm spending Have they got facilities on board? Oh, yeah, there is a loo on the...

Is there? Yeah. Or the election bus. So, unfortunately, I can't go on the bus because I don't make that noise because I am needed on the home front because we are only halfway through GCSEs and A-levels and every day is an exam day for somebody in our household

and thoughts and prayers to everybody else who is doing the double whammy this summer or the single whammy. There's a bit of me that just thinks it's easier for everybody that we're getting it all over and done with in one grotesque summer because we're all on the same hamster's wheel at the moment and I think maybe it would be, is it harder?

I'll chuck that out to our lovely listeners especially if you've got three or four kids. I mean, presumably you have kind of up to six summers of exams to get through. So they're stressful, and, you know, as we have often said before on the podcast, it's a very narrow way of examining a child. I just don't think it really works. I hope it changes in their lifetime. Yeah, I can't see that happening in the near future.

But hey, we don't know what lies ahead, particularly not at the moment, do we? Very true, Mystic Meg. Well, you do know. I do know. And that's where we're going, because we have had, I'm going to say a number of emails, we've actually just had one, saying, how is Mystic Gar feeling about the forthcoming men's Euros?

Well, I can tell you for certain, the mist of confusion on the old ball of the future cleared a couple of days ago, and England, I'm afraid, I'm afraid everybody, they get knocked out in the quarterfinals. Will we? We won't. We won't.

We won't. We won't. We won't. I say we. I mean, you know, lots of our listeners are not English. Scotland will go on to win. Okay, right. Sorry, I shouldn't laugh. Although that would be really funny. You're such a cackle.

There's always, as ever, when England set off for a tournament, there's all this talk about how fabulous they are. And indeed, they have got many talented players, whether they can play as a team in, you know, tournament pressures. I don't think you'd be very welcome in the kingdom of Fife. I might be. I actually would love it if Scotland did better than England. That could be really hilarious.

Right. Shall we play the tape? Here are your facts and figures about the mighty thriller writer Harlan Coben. He's written 35 books, sold 80 million copies of them, most are twisty, turny thrillers, and they've been translated into 46 languages. He's 62 years old, American, has four children. His wife is a paediatrician. His brother lives in the UK and supports Fulham.

His latest book is a Myron Bolletard novel. Now, if you know Harlan's work, you'll know Myron. He's been the detective lead in nearly a dozen books, a former baseball star turned sports agent turned reluctant sleuth. Now, every great crime hero has to have a thing. Hercule Poirot's Little Grey Cells, Saga Norrin's Autistic Tendencies, Jake Jackson, Stig's Creation, A Loathing of Technology. I started by asking Harlem what Myron's sleuthing USP was. I think it lives out in the world, actually. You know, Raymond Chandler had the quote about

his detective walks down these mean streets alone. Myron goes nowhere alone. He always has his sidekick Wynn and Esperanza and Big Cindy and his team with him. I think he's probably the most normal guy, though he has a business where he's in management. Like he manages actors and sports stars and things like that. That gets him in all sorts of trouble.

And he's a bit of a mensch. You know, he's always doing something that hopefully makes him human to people. And then, you know, I'm always doing something that hopefully makes him human to people. And then, you know, I'm hoping the series has heart besides being fast moving and all the stuff that you hopefully expect from me. I hope he also tweaks your heart a little bit. There's a huge backstory in this one, isn't there? So people who've read your novels featuring Maron before might have felt that they got to a bit of a cadence at the end of the last one. But this one explains a lot more about him. How on earth do you do that as a writer to know that you haven't bumped into a detail in a previous book?

Well, first of all, you know, I skipped it. It's been eight years since I wrote him. And when I wrote the thing twice, I said to myself, you got to write this, I guess, the very first Myron. This is a great place. If you've never read a Myron Bolletard book, no, you don't have to go back and read them all. In fact, I think it's actually better if you read this thing twice and then go back. But anyway, so, but every book, when you think about it, you're starting, everybody has the huge backstory, right?

When I wrote the first Myron, he was 28 years old. Now he's nearly 50. Wherever you're starting the person, they have a whole backstory. And so I tell it the same way I would tell it if I hadn't written any of the other books. I try to erase that, yet not make it repetitive for people who have already read some of them. It's a little bit of a balancing act. But if I stick to the story, if I stick to trying to do those things that keep you up at night and keep turning pages, it usually works itself out. Why did you go back to him? There's a couple reasons.

One is I came up with an idea. So once I had that idea, I then say, who is going to tell that story? So I wrote a bunch of Myrons back in the 90s. And then I had this idea for a man whose wife is murdered. Eight years pass. He can't get over her death. He clicks a hyperlink of an email. He sees a webcam and his dead wife walks by and goes, wow, I love this idea.

But Myron can't tell because Myron didn't have a wife. So Myron went into retirement. I wrote a book called Tell No One. So each book I ask who can tell the story. And this is the first time in eight years the answer was Myron Bolitor. The other reason was, though, I don't know, the world's kind of a messed up place. And I just wanted to have something that was a little bit more comfort food. That you just, you know, even if you don't, the mystery is hopefully the thing here.

But you would just like spending time with Myron Wynn and Esperanza and the way sitting around with them. You'd want to spend time with them in a pub. And that's also part of the reason why I brought the team back. Do you write better when the world is quite dark outside? You know, I never really thought about that, but probably. I mean, writing is about shutting yourself off. I am a socially adept introvert. That is that I prefer being alone. I can do these things, but they will exhaust me. I can go on the sets of the TV shows. They will exhaust me. And then all I want, they actually feed off each other.

So I do these shows for Netflix, which I'll probably talk about somewhere along the way. But I'll go on set for two or three days, and I love it for two or three days, and then it exhausts me, and I just want to run and hide in my room and write more. and I just want to run and hide in my room and write more. I do think it makes my job somewhat more important where I want to be that escapism, not in a fake sort of a way, but I think it's healthy for people, both if they're being active or not, politically active or not,

to also take a rest, to take a break and still remember that you should be enjoying life, you should be entertained, you should be experiencing the arts. You really lean into technology in this book, and actually in quite a few of your novels. You're not afraid to reflect the very modern society that we're living in. But I wonder what your thoughts are about the damage

that technology has undoubtedly done to crime fiction, because you can solve a case now with the triangulation of a phone master or the detail of a GPS tracker or the dreaded forensic evidence. And actually that can sometimes feel like it takes away from the ingenuity of the sleuth. Well, Think Twice, like all of my books,

is written exactly in the present day. I'm not writing anything historical. It's not really cutting edge technology either. I don't do a lot of research. It's what's out there. And as you point out, and actually what you're talking about inspired it, inspired the book rather than detracted from it. So I got the idea to write a thing twice. I hate serial killer books. I don't like serial killer stories, but I was reading interestingly enough that we have less serial killers that are active now than any time since they've been keeping track And lord knows as we both know it's not because we are more mentally sound or healthier

No, we are as crazy as we've ever been but it's hard to get away with it now Everyone, you know in those old days you have hitchhikers You'd have the woman who didn't have a you know, couldn't be tracked. Everybody carries a phone with them Everybody's on cctv now a million times a day. Everybody is being tracked when they're driving, their cars. So it's hard for a serial killer to get away with it. So, of course, in my mind, I'm thinking, how can I use that in a story? What a challenge.

Yes, what a challenge. How can I take that and freshen up? So rather than being something that detracts, I think that a lot of this modern technology has helped me. So a lot of people were like, well, you can't have that story anymore where all of a sudden you find out that, gasp, that's your father

because he would take a paternity test. Okay, so how do I do that? Well, you take tests like 23andMe and you get new surprises, different kind of things. So I take those as ways of changing the story for the better, not for the worse. You don't write the very detailed, horrific deaths. You don't really write, well, you don't write sexual assaults.

You don't write rape. You don't put people on a slab. No. All of those kind of things. And I wonder what your thoughts are about writers who do take the reader on those kind of journeys. Is there ever a time when that might actually just be a bit too much, a bit foolish, a bit leading people on?

What do you think? I don't think it leads people on. I mean, it all depends on the writer and the context. There are some writers who do it in brilliant ways that make you think and change how you think and actually will make you more empathetic to that particular situation. And every time I sort of say, oh, I would never or no one should, then someone comes up with one. I remember a number of years ago, really the child abuse thing had just been so

overdone and who wants to read it? And then my friend Dennis Lehane wrote Gone Baby Gone it was completely fresh way so I never say anything shouldn't be done or can't be done it really depends on whose hands it's in. Let's talk about Netflix then because you are such an enormous force on the platform now tiny detail question why is everything that you've written that appears on Netflix set in the UK? Well, it's not. I've had eight shows, four of which have been in the UK, two in Poland, one in France, one in Spain, filming one in Argentina. I stand corrected. Filming, and we are working on a couple in America. There's a couple reasons why I have so many in the UK, and that is that I met wonderful collaborators here. Nicholas Schindler, Danny Brocklehurst, and Richard Fee.

Nicola has done shows from Happy Valley to Last Tang on Halifax, Queer as Folk, all of Russell Davies' shows. And I really loved working with them. And I love working here. I love working in the north in Manchester area. They leave us alone a little bit more, maybe the Netflix and Prime, they let us do our thing. And as long as we deliver, we're okay. Your actors are great. The cast and crews are great. They've seen all the right things. No, I know I always hate when, frankly, when people come on and sound so Pollyanna. Oh, this actor was so great to work with.

But the truth is, these actors were so great. I just, you know, I did Fully Once and I had Michelle Keegan and Joanna Lumley and D.L. Oktar and many times I worked Richard Armitage. And I wish I had, like, something to tell you a little negative about them, just because I think we could. But they really are great. You know, I always go go on set and for example, we do it for me once and I'm watching all these

actors and actors put it together and this wonderful lighting teams and all these people. And I think to myself, wow, I had this silly idea in my house in New Jersey. And now all these people, 200 people are going to bring it to life and Netflix is going to press a button and it's going to be in 190 countries with 250 million subscribers or whatever they have. If that doesn't jazz you as a storyteller, I don't know what does. Yeah, I think you're right to say that and acknowledge it and it's nice to hear that.

That's great. Your books and the Netflix deal presumably presumably, have made you very wealthy. And I wonder what that does to creativity, if anything. I think for a lot of people, it probably has a great effect. For me, it doesn't. This will sound Pollyanna also. I've never chased the dollars. I've always chased the reader's hearts.

And if you get the reader's hearts, the dollars follow. But I've never been driven financially. It just isn't how I'm necessarily built, even though, you know, boy, am I in a better position than I was years ago. And for me, I still want to write a better story. Each book, I want to be better than one before. Are there ever days where you have thought, there's a different life that I could be living?

You studied political science, didn't you, at college? Yep. Sometimes do you look at the world of politics and think, yeah, I could have done that? Hell no. Oh my God, I feel like I dodged a bullet. I almost went to law school. I was all ready to head to the University of Chicago Law School

when my family talked me into helping out with the family business for a couple of years. And I thank God every day that happened. So no, I don't have any regrets. I have literally the greatest job in the world. I mean, if you have a writer, sometimes they'll be like, oh, this is hard or that is hard. The truth of the matter is being a bestselling writer is the single greatest job in the world. And I'm extraordinarily lucky. So no, I have nothing like, ooh, I wish I had gone another route. More like, thank goodness I didn't take those other routes. I know that you were one of the signatories on a letter that was written and sent to Joe Biden.

It was an open letter signed by many celebrities and creative people after the horrendous terrorist attacks of October the 7th. And it was asking that no hostage be left behind. Obviously, we are so many months on from that horrendous, horrendous tragedy. And I wonder what you think of President Joe Biden's handling of the whole situation. What would a letter that was written now be asking him to do? You know, I don't know. It's a very difficult issue in terms of what Biden should do or what a president should do or how involved.

So I don't really know. I mean, it was just, I don't know if it was necessarily a call or I don't remember it anymore. It was very, very early on or congratulatory. It's a very difficult situation. And I don't know. I try not to get publicly involved in politics for a couple reasons. But the main reason is I don't want anybody to go into my books thinking, oh, he's a right-wing wacko,

he's a left-wing extremist, he's this or that. Our world is already polarized enough. I'm hoping that I can carve out a space that we can all find entertainment, find a place to turn off. I think one of the problems we were mentioning before with social media, for example, it's just too much. We are all too polarized and we're all supposed to know everything. So these kids today, and I'm not saying kids because I shouldn't say kids, but I mean everybody, we're supposed to all be activists, but we don't know anything. You can't possibly be an expert in climate change, the Middle East, Russia, Ukraine, everything you're supposed to have. And if you don't speak, silence is murder and all.

It's crazy. There's no way these kids, especially on campuses, but any of us can know all of that. The great heroes of the past, the people who made real changes in the past, the Martin Luther Kings, the Gloria Steinems, who I had the honor of meeting and spending some time with, they were slightly more focused. I mean, you know, Gloria Steinem was on feminism. It wasn't on 47 other things. And I think perhaps if instead of having

to have this sort of groupthink where we have to sort of go on the attack or we have to speak up, even though we really don't know anything about it or enough about it, but our tribe knows enough about it, is really dangerous. And I think that's part of the danger of social media and the dangers that we're seeing today. Yeah, respect to you for that. Final question then. You didn't seriously write for three weeks in the back of an Uber, did you?

I did. I took an Uber when I was first starting those ride shares. How much did that cost you? Oh, no, not that much. I was taking, those days it was kind of inexpensive to do it. And yeah, so for three weeks when I was, anything to write well. I mean, I'll even fly on an airplane. If I'm writing well on an airplane, I'll take airplane rides places. My life is devoted to writing. I live my life like this. Does it help me write? Good. Does it not help me write? Bad. And that's it.

Okay. Did you rate the driver? Did he get five stars? Well, some of my paragraphs weren't the best and he bumped a few times. So I think I moved them down to four. No, it was always five stars. Harlan Coben there and his latest novel, Crime Thriller, whatever you want to call it, is Think Twice. And if you're looking for a riveting summer holiday read, then I think you will enjoy it. I do like the fact that he doesn't go dark and horrible and nasty and, you know, skin being peeled off and all the kind of things

that some other crime writers indulge in. So you've got quite a feeling of safety, I think, when you enter a Harlan Coburn novel, that it's not going to contain that type of violence. Gentle thrills, you'd say. Yes, I mean, people get murdered and quite a lot of people get murdered. Oh, right. But I don't feel it's ever gratuitous or that women come out of it worse.

OK. Well, that's something, isn't it? It is something. But I don't feel it's ever gratuitous or that women come out of it worse. Okay. Well, that's something, isn't it? It is something. Imagine if you put that on the front of the book. Women don't come out of it worse. Fee Glover. This ringing endorsement was supplied by... Okay, now, have a better-than-average weekend.

We will reconvene on Monday ahead of my dizzy night in the Times Radio election bus. I won't be in a good mood on Monday. I'm telling you that for nothing. We're also on our way to the summer party. So maybe we'll have some things to report from there. I don't think so, realistically. But yes, last time we went on a work sounding,

you fell off a stool and I blew a kiss at a management executive, so I think it's everything to play for actually the meal is so rich, I swear to god I'm still digesting it, right, tonight will be easier, just a couple of Proseccos and a sausage roll

and I'll be on my way, right thank you for listening, I mean why you do, we don't know but we're very grateful, it's Jane O'Phee at Timestock Radio, goodnight Right. Thank you for listening. I mean, why you do, we don't know, but we're very grateful. It's Jane and Fee at Times.Radio. Good night. Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe. And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio.

It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run or running a bank. Thank you for joining us and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. Don't be so silly. Running a bank? I know ladies don't do that. A lady listener?

I know, sorry.