Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Unashamed fan of the apple-catcher pant

Episode Date: March 9, 2026

It's our first official visualised podcast episode, so if you're listening to this, why not head over to our YouTube channel and watch it too? Jane and Fi are filled with excitement — the joys of spring and... snot. (It's all glamour over here!) In between the nose-blowing, they ask: Do people still care about VPLs? What is Victor's secret? Is Frank the cat really a cat? Plus, there are apologies to the people of Hertfordshire...Check out our YouTube channel here: www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndFiOur next book club pick is 'A Town Like Alice' by Nevil Shute.Our most asked about book is called 'The Later Years' by Peter Thornton.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We haven't started, have we? We probably have. Shall we just move on some slightly easier ground of matching bras, knickers and ratios? Yeah, no, I think that's... Have we started? Well, we can't broadcast anything that's just been discussed. Let's start now. Why can't we?

I don't think it's suitable. Not because you've offended hot pets. I don't want it to offend. I don't want to offend anybody. I've given up offending. Oh, okay. Tell me just acknowledge. It's only Monday, love.

It's only Monday. And this is a new way of off air, isn't it? It is, Jane. And finally, I just want to be, you have finally succumbed, and we are now living together. And this gorgeous, this wonderful apartment that I've had fitted out with this fire and these accessories. And I just can't believe my good luck. I'm glad that you're finally revealing to the world how deranged you are.

utterly deranged. This fire, which I think actually, it does look incredibly. I think it probably looks quite realistic if you're watching this on a heavily pixelated dodgy Wi-Fi phone somewhere but it's not real Jane it's not giving out any heat whatsoever

It's actually quite cold in here It is very cold You have to ask for the heating to be turned up I don't really understand The knitted doll who appears to be attached to the lamp with her hair I mean we've only just got through

International Women's Day I don't think that's a symbol that we want to have in the background I don't like it much either. We'll affix her in a slightly more pleasant fashion, I think. That's just plain wrong. We've got a few books. Don't look too closely at the books.

You might be, I don't know, whether all of them are entirely, well, are they our sort of thing? We've got a Susie Steiner there, and I know lots of people love her. Well, I think we've got quite a few of our Book Club books. Oh, well, that case, that's all right. Yep. So we've got the Hillary Mantell, we've got a dutiful boy. Oh, good. Wendy Mitchell's down there.

So, no, I think we're okay. Right. I'm not quite sure who... Oh, War Gardens by La Lage Snow. Have you read that? No, not yet, but I'll get round to it. Now, people are going to be concerned, are you feeling a bit better? Yes.

So are you feeling a bit better? Well, oh dear, right. The annoying thing is, I think you had the cold as well. So I was really succumbing to the cold on Thursday, and I just couldn't stop coughing, could not stop coughing. So I went home after the podcast and just coughed to my heart's content in my boudoir alone, Jane, alone. Yeah.

But then you picked up the cold on Friday and then you swan in on Monday, you're through it. Whereas I'm still suffering here. I do seem to be a little better than I was. Very hot and bothered on Saturday. Okay, but it's passed through. It does seem to have done so, yeah. I think one of the huge differences between us,

and you put it down to your ginger shots and your firm constitution coming as you do from the heart of the Liverpool. Yeah. And I'm just a flabby southerner. But actually I did now, and I say this, because you could learn from me, kids, I just smoke way too much in my youth. So when I get a cold, I just get this horrible, horrible chestiness all the time, Jane. It's just inevitable, is it? I don't think I've done myself any favours by, if I'm being honest, probably smoking at least 20 a day for over a decade.

And thinking it would have absolutely no ramifications further down the line. and when I am spluttering around, I just think, well, you were stupid, weren't you love? You were absolutely stupid. Did anyone tell you you were being stupid at the time? Oh my God, of course they did. But you don't. I mean, we were all the same at that age.

Yeah, and I remember my mum saying to me when she found a packet of ten consulate cigarettes and you can smoke any kind of cigarettes you want. I don't know much about, were they sophisticated? They're menthol-tipped. What does that mean? Minty. Minty.

Yeah, so they just slightly disguised the horrible taste of tobacco. I mean, I defy anybody to have liked their first cigarette. It's horrible. Makes you feel sick and faint. I didn't like that one I had on the Isle Man. You know, it's just revolting. But we did take smoking menthol cigarettes because they were just slightly kind of easier.

I mean, it's exactly the same thing that's going on with vapes. You know, the bubble gum flavour is to lure in the younger smokers. So mum found a packet of ten consulates in my gym bag when she was sorting through it at the end of term. When I was in quite a young year at school,

and I remember her saying to me, you think that you're immortal at your age, but you're not, and you'll pay for it further down the line. And of course, as with most things, she was right. But that argument just never, ever turns a young person off doing anything. Because the whole point is that you do feel immortal,

don't you? Yes, you are encouraged to feel immortal. Yeah, what dips through that, I don't know. And actually, that's a genuine question. You know, I don't know. it is. The statistics about smoking is still so bad, aren't they? And they've got all of those things on the packets of horrendous injuries that you all... I don't think the packets can look any more horrendous. Yeah. But I know that in the younger generation, those are kind of laughed at and people

say, you know, I'd like the one with a rancid leg on, please. You know, that's what they ask for in shops is a kind of, I'm big and tough joke. Yeah. I'm immortal. Yes. Yeah. So if anyone has any top tips on what actually works to stop the kids smoking. I know some very, very bold parents, you know, have done that, make them smoke a cigarette, you know, when they're quite young. So they're sick and that puts them off. They actually make them. Yes, I have known, I've never known a parent do it.

I've got friends whose parents made them smoke a cigarette to put them off. Oh, I see. Yeah. Right. But anyway, it's good to have you back. Yeah, sorry, that was very long windy. Can you do matching bras? knickers and ratios. Well, I just want to say hello to Hertfordshire, first of all. Yes.

I mean, it was my fault, wasn't it? If we could turn back time. If we could, I'd say sorry to Hartfordshire. Rachel says, give a shout out to Potter's Bar. I now know more about Hartfordshire than I ever thought was possible. It is in Hertfordshire and it's where my children go to the most amazing school, Dame Alice Owens, if you can give that a shout out to. Right. That's probably enough detail. But Potter's Bar is in Hertfordshire. Nicola makes this point on yesterday's show, Jane stated with absolute certainty that you'd never had an email from Hertfordshire. I'm here to disagree. Can I just not for the first time, Nicola? I'm almost never right. I mean, I talk a lot. And let's be honest, about 75% of it is cobbler's. And my colleague here is often very keen to point that out. But in fairness, she's not wrong. When you were discussing horror birth stories a while back, I emailed in my long and eye-watering in more ways than one experience. Admittedly, it was hastily sent via a phone during the course of a very rainy trek through a field and sadly didn't make the show. But I definitely emailed from Hertfordshire.

Right. Okay. Well, Nicola, I mean, we'll have to take your word for that because the evidence is a little sketchy, but you do claim that you have emailed. And Debbie says, rest assured, you do have listeners in Hertfordshire. I've emailed three times and sent a postcard from the small Hertfordshire town of Tring. Jane was once very disparaging about Tring. because of the slow trains that come this way. But it's a very pretty market town right on the border with Buckinghamshire.

I mean, to think we have listeners on the Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire border. It's wonderful news, isn't it? It's really wonderful news. Thank you all so much. And just another brief mention from Di. What about Watford, Harpenden, Stephenage, Well in Garden City and Letchworth and Hitchin? All of them, Jane. All of them in Harfich.

You couldn't name a single one. I'm sorry about that too. She also actually just has a side note. I'm a good friend of Madonna from Brisbane, who emailed last week. Yes. As she was complaining last week about the flavoured hot cross buns. I actually quite like the cheesy ones from M&S, says Di. But I'm surprised Madonna was at a bus stop.

It's not really her style. Well, it wasn't any fibbing going on. Maybe she's changed when she's in Brisbane. I always love it when a celebrity posts, you know, after a really, really glitzy evening. They've been at the BAFTAs or the Oscars or the world event championships or whatever it is. and then they'll do a little instra on the bus, top deck of the bus on the way home.

Just, yeah. Women and men of the people. Don't believe a word of it. Come in, Alison. Now, do you know what, I can't quite remember, because everything has gone a little bit hazy over the weekend. I think that there's quite a high chance. I'm going to read out an email that I read out on Thursday.

If that happens... Have you taken night nurse? You could clax and sound. No, but I have been, because my cough was keeping me awake, I've been taking half of one of a two-a-night-nightal. Don't come to us at any point for medical advice. We should make that very clear. So no, I'm not very awake until about 2 o'clock.

And we're recording this at... That's confusing, isn't it? Because one clock says 1122 and 1 o'clock says 1222. Well, don't worry, it's 2026. It's only me, Jane Garvey. And you're somewhere in central London. Is Boris Johnson still around? He's still around, but he's not Prime Minister.

Okay. Oh, God. It's good to know. Alison says I've been joined the matching underwear debate and hopefully you can add some statistics to the conversation. Well, thank God for a fact, Alison. In the mid-1990s, I was lingerie buyer from one of our favourite department stores.

There was skill in both selecting the styles, which would appeal to customers, and then buying the right ratios of bras to knickers. Okay. If the lingerie was a distinctive colour or had beautiful embroidery, then would sell them in a ratio of one bra to two bottoms. Sorry, just stop there.

One bra, two bottoms. One bra, two bottoms. Maybe a thong and a brief, giving the wearer options, dependent on her outfit. I know, these were the days, says Alison, when visible panty line was a major fashion faux par. So trousers demanded thongs. I want to come back to that point, Alison.

The strong colour or design would encourage set buying as mismatch would be obvious. However, black and white lingerie was different. Even a white bra made with a beautiful, delicate lace, would sell very few matching bottoms, maybe 0.2 to every one bra. This is why you need to pay attention in maths at school, everybody. That last statistic, pass that one through again.

Okay. 0.2 to every one bra. Right. So less than a knicker to a bra. Yeah, to a bra. There must be a big, big profit to be made. on underwear when you think about it. Because often, unless you're me,

often very little material is required. So the manufacturer must be, they're laughing all the way to the bank, aren't they? Well, I mean, I'm sorry, but imagine if this was two men doing a podcast and one of them sat there and said, talking about pants, they're big pants, I mean, if it was me. Yeah, but I'm not a bloke. So this is in no way a boast.

It's just an honest, it's an honest affirmation. Are you sure? No, I'm an unashamed fan of the apple catcher pant. And I always will be. I always will be. Right. No, I was just because you don't, knickers and bras are really expensive, aren't they? They are, J.

But there's not a lot of material involved. There isn't. It's like a trouser or a coat. No, you're absolutely right. And sometimes they'll cost more than a trouser or a coat. That's what I mean. It's crazy times. I think those of us with a larger bazumba, we should be helped out by the state.

It's not our fault Actually we did have an email Forgive me I can't find it I was just surfing for it there Apparently it's so hot in Australia at the moment Nobody's wearing a bra at all Oh good God I know isn't that horrendous

Well that is quite horrendous I mean I don't know whether it's just that people come through the swing doors of their home And they've been sweating their cobbler's off On the decking or whatever it is And they just take the bra off there But it's over 40 Celsius in some parts of Australia right now I think

Do you I would find it more uncomfortable I'm sorry everybody I'm going to have to blow my nose. I'm through the cold. Go for it. Go for it. Look, these are, Times Radio. A special Times Towers, Freebies. It's a very small tissue. Well, it's got a little slogan on the back. What does it say?

Big issues, little tissues. Oh, there you go. I like that. It's not bad. I think I'd be more uncomfortable in 40 degrees without underwear than with underwear. Oh, that's a big statement, P. Well, it is. But you know what I mean? I'd just go quite like, I'd want to be kind of firmed and kept in during intense heat. Look after Fee in high temperatures. I just want to come back to what Alison was talking about.

Yes. With the visible panty line. Now I actually had to explain VPL to my 18 year old because it's not an acronym available to third generation. So what's going on there? But is it just gone? Are people just not bothered about it anymore? Are they wearing a different type of trouser?

It was a big thing. Oh, well, what was that magazine? I used to get it, actually, heat. Heat, yeah. They used to, and I'm ashamed of it now, but they would have, they would draw circles around. Yeah, they would shame people to their VPL. Celebrities, Cellulite and VPLs. And it's terrible, actually, that that went on.

But it did, and I indulged them by buying it. So I'm very much in the mix here. I didn't realize it had faded the VPL. I thought people still cared. I don't think they do. Right. Well, be in touch. Good for them.

Yeah. Final thought from Alison on the topic of coloured lingerie. At Christmas, we'd sell lots of red matching lingerie sets purchased by hopeful boyfriends and husbands. Then in January, there'll be lots of returns with the girlfriends and wives exchanging the unworn red sets for practical everyday white or black bras. And we just put that out there because quite a few gentlemen, they do listen. So that's just a helpful tip, isn't it?

Yes. But red underwear, it's just a massive flag. As a gift, it's a massive, massive, massive. flag. What Pamela actually wants is a duffel coat. So why don't you just buy one? She'd love it. What is it about fiery red underwear then? I don't know. But I mean, I've never, I've never bought myself red underwear. I don't want to be bought red underwear. It's just, it's just crazy. It makes me think of fireman Sam. I don't know why. Well, that is quite strange. I'm not sure there's an equivalent. I mean, I've never bought flaming red, tight, well,

Why fronts for a gentleman? But it does, whenever I go past Victoria's Secret, which I don't very often, but we do have one in our local mega shopping centre, I just think, well, where's Victor's Secret? What's he wearing? Well, it's a reasonable point, isn't it? It's a very reasonable point.

Why should women get trust up in fripperies? Yeah. Well, trust is the right word as well. Whenever I walk past the front of a Victoria Secret Shop, I just wince a bit. It's not for comfort And also Victoria It's not a secret anymore, is it?

No, you got your goods in the window there. This is from Sam. I don't know why this makes me laugh. This email's been sent by a control freak. He has nothing to control, right? Lots of control freaks aren't actually in charge of anything. She does say Australian travel agents are advising Aussies not to plan European travel at all

for the rest of this year. Now that is a little worrying from our side of things. Please don't stop coming. But anyway, maybe if you're being advised not to come, I'm not going to disagree with it. But anyway, Sam says, I'm emailing from sunny Melbourne in Australia. I'm here to visit my son who, after travelling here from uni, met a lovely Aussie girl and has decided to stay. That's another topic altogether, bereft mums of travelling kids. We have talked about this in the past, haven't we?

And I think, I mean, I'm absolutely, I'm happy to say. I would be so upset if either of my children went to Australia to live. I mean, visit, yes, but that just feels like such a long way. So I totally understand why, Sam, you probably do feel somewhat ambivalent about it all. Anyway, Sam says, I thought I'd take time out of my business for the first time in five years and leave my capable staff in charge just for a couple of weeks. What could go wrong, Jane. That's exactly what Sam says.

What could go wrong? Anywho, she says. War broke out. out, right, which obviously over last weekend. And now it looks as though I'm here to stay, at least for the time being. My husband and I are moving around from hotel to apartment while we work out how on earth to get home. Our flights have been cancelled through Abu Dhabi, of course. It looks like we may be able to take a 40-hour option via China in a few weeks' time, if we're lucky. I've heard about this before by other people, actually. The going via China option

appears to be about the only thing available. But even then you have to wait for quite some time. I do have friends who live in Dubai, and I realize how much more fortunate we are not to be in the middle of this shit show. And we are safe, thank goodness. However, I will say that it's the most surreal feeling that we cannot get back to our home,

the rest of our family and responsibilities until who knows when. And Sam absolutely owns that she isn't the person who's most severely affected by all this. Of course she isn't. But it's still really unsettling, isn't it? Yeah, but so many people, Jane will start to be more seriously. Yeah.

Oh, God, absolutely. Effective, won't they? As time moves on. And the thing that I don't really understand, or there are lots of things I don't understand about this conflict, but for the Iranian regime to be apologising to the other Gulf states for the bombing that they're doing, why not not do it? Well, I don't think anybody knows who's in charge of all that.

No. That's not a very soothing thing to say, is it? I think, I think, I think sorry on the international stage stop meaning what you and I take it to mean a while back. It may have coincided with the arrival of a new president somewhere in the world.

But if you don't mean sorry, don't say it because it doesn't help the receiver at all. No. And there are people being affected all over the place. Certainly in the Middle East, in terrible scenes in Lebanon as well, Israeli bombing there. They're trying to smoke out Hezbollah. Well, literally using white phosphorus, Jane.

I mean, it's grim. Obviously, we don't know exactly what's going on in Iran, but I'm sure people are suffering abominably there. So look, people who email this podcast are relatively fortunate because, first of all, they're able to do so. And like Sam, they acknowledge that they're not having the toughest time of all. But we will very much be here for you. I know we will.

If you'd like to, you know, tell us about where you've got stuck and all of those kind of things because it is immensely helpful. to other people in the same position, I think, to hear those stories. We've also had a fantastic recommendation actually for somebody, one of our correspondents who lives in Dubai, one of your friends, Andrew Davenport, sent an email recommending you actually to be a bit of a correspondent on our programme to let us know what is happening to you at the moment. So we may well pursue that.

It's always quite strange, it must be quite strange, if you listen to the, a podcast and you contribute to it and then somebody else, one of your friends who's also listened to it but hasn't told you they listened to it, contributing to you. You're having a conversation using us as a kind of forum. That's quite right. I definitely need to blow mine as well,

but I'm worried that I'm a lovely, lovely makeup. I know. People have put so much makeup on both of us today that I think if, if I blow my nose, I'm going to look a little bit Rudolph Red Nosed Ranehakes. At the moment it's all stuck on. Stuck on and it's staying there.

A question for Trump. So we were talking about this last week. Yeah. What we had actually asked Donald Trump if we were able to sit down with him. And Renate says, greetings ladies. I've been a fan since you were back at the old place. I haven't emailed until now. But your quandary over what to ask the orange blob inspired.

No, urged me to write in. Any question other than what the fuck is wrong with you gives unwarranted legitimacy to his lies and stupidity and presumes the level of thought and consideration that do not exist. I most sincerely hope you can ask him this question because not a single reporter in the US has had the courage to do so. Thanks to the podcast. It's straightened to the point.

And at journalism school, that's what they always tell you should be doing. Absolutely. Just cut to it. But strangely, nobody in the States has. I wouldn't rule it out happening, though. It would be the moment, wouldn't it? where somebody just says, you're barking, aren't you, mate?

But maybe they will. Well, we've been just, we've just been saying that for years, Jane. It just seems so weird that, you know, 10 years on, we're still having the conversation. Thank God for a new picture of Frank. Oh, yes. Frank, I mean, the cat who owns the world.

Yeah. What was Frank doing in last week's pose? So in last week's pose, Frank was showing us his wares, but in a very, very laid-back coming. and get me of your fancy me. He wouldn't know. He wouldn't need to go to Victor's Secret, would he? No.

No. He really wouldn't. He was definitely, definitely Frank on display. Yeah. But there was a kind of, there was a slightly, there was a come hither look in his eyes, but at the same time, a whatevs. He's a cat. Yeah.

Yeah. No, he's Emma's husband. No, he's not. He's not. Don't send those kind of pictures. Oh, God. No. Oh, Lord.

No, really don't. Anyway, look, Frank's just looking very sweet. And, and, you know, you know, actually quite innocent in today's picture. So we are grateful to have received that. I wouldn't have been able to cope with saucy Frank on a Monday morning. No, last week I mentioned we've moved from a cat called Frank, and before that, Donald Trump, to the Birmingham-based disc jockey Les Ross,

who I mentioned last week, Les has done nothing to deserve this, by the way. And he's still very much broadcasting on something called Boom Radio, Boom, which you and I would probably enjoy more than we'd be prepared to admit. What would the USP, what would the playlist be on boom? Well, Sue in Colwyn Bay in North Wales says, boom is my go-to when the present doom and gloom gets too much. Lots of memories through music. But it goes without saying, she says that it's your podcast that really keeps me going. Well, thank you for that, Sue. We do appreciate it.

No, Les, he's a great broadcaster, and he's described here by Sue as a chirpy Brummy who presents It's the Sunday afternoon show on Boom Radio. You can find it in all good radio places. I think they play songs from the 50s, 60s and 70s. Okay. So nothing to frighten anybody, but good tunes and top quality DJ presentations. Lovely.

Is that a good... We don't plug other radio stations, but we just have. You almost had the correct intonation there as well, which I like. Because there's a way of speaking, isn't there, on that type of radio station, where everything is up to the beginning of a track. And nobody ever speaks like that in normal life.

A car without women design tech input is like a fish without a bicycle. Now this comes from Kate, who is one of our correspondents in New Zealand. Oh, okay. And you can't, I won't be able to do it justice just through the medium of words. Yeah. But I would recommend anybody tries to find it. It's a satirical advert for International Women's Day made by Ford. Okay.

And it imagines the car that would exist if women hadn't been involved. So it would have no Wi-Fi. It wouldn't have proper suspension. It wouldn't have any wing mirrors. It wouldn't have windscreen wipers. And they detail all of the car engineers and designers, female ones who've been involved with their manufacturing over the years. And it's just really brilliant, Jane.

Okay. Yeah. Really, really good. International Women's Day was yesterday, wasn't it? Yes. And I think, I mean, there was a lot of good stuff around. I had a bit of a harumph because I logged on to a supermarket delivery site and there was an

end, this was on Friday and there was an international Women's Day section. What did they offer you? Well exactly, is it all going to be calcium rich foods and wiping materials and all of that and I thought oh you know, bollocks to you, literally bollocks to you. That's capitalism gone mad in it.

Yeah, but I clicked on it thinking, right, I'm going to talk about this on the podcast and I'll go at you. But in fact what it was was supporting businesses founded by women. Ah, in that case, I take it back as well. Yeah.

That's a really wonderful initiative. It's great. Well, well, don't, Ocardo. Yes, yes indeed. Here's somebody else who's, well, it's Sue, who's listening in Vietnam, but normally she'd be in Otley in Yorkshire. Okay. So we're doing well, aren't we?

So we're Brisbane. Yeah. Brisbane, when? No, just our correspondence on the podcast today. Yeah, but, yes, Brisbane, New Zealand. New Zealand. Oh, actually, that reminds me. Hartfordshire.

And let's big uptring. I mean, I wouldn't be big in Tring. The listener you just, the email you just read out from New Zealand, I wanted to ask, Jacinda Ardenne moving to Australia, which is what she's done. How has that gone down in New Zealand? And is it true that lots of people are leaving to go to Australia and they're getting fed up with New Zealand? It's a tricky one, isn't it? Well, I'm just, I genuinely don't know much about it.

And I'd love to hear what our listeners in that part of the world think. Because from the outside looking in, it looks a little bit like a transfer from Spurs to Arsenal, isn't it? Well, don't forget, I was put in my place because I thought New Zealand was, you know, a hop, skipping a jump from Australia. But it's not, is it? It's quite a long way. It's quite some distance.

So I feel really stupid and not for the first time. But there does appear to be a bit of a brain drain from New Zealand to Australia. Well, let's ask our correspondence. Yeah, I mean, let us know. Does it upset you? I think Noel Edmonds is sticking it out, isn't it? No, Noel's in New Zealand, isn't he? He is.

Yes. Yes. Well, come back, Noel. We could do with you. Anyway, I just want to go back to Sue. I'm currently on holiday in Vietnam with my husband, Sy. We were due to fly home yesterday. That's Saturday, but flights cancelled because of the problems in the Middle East.

Flights were re-booked for Monday, but they've been cancelled too. So now we're here until Thursday, when we can take flights in a different direction. I've run out of clean clothes and certainly won't be wearing matching undies. We'll have to find a laundry. I just wanted to say thank you for your podcast, which have made me chuckle, even when we don't know what was going on. A little bit of home for me to hold on to. Despite feeling a million miles away from home,

we're now going to make the most of our extra days here. Well, Sue, I hope you get home safe and sound sooner rather than later. It doesn't sound as though your journey back from Vietnam will be quite as difficult, presumably that flight will actually happen at some point this week. Just I had no idea how many flights went through the Middle East. Well, the hubs are huge, are they? Absolutely huge. I mean, Dubai is the world's busiest airport, so I should have known that really.

Yes, I never know. I thought Shippel was, but if you say so. We used to say it was Heathrow, didn't we? Well, we used to be big in the world. This one comes in from Carolyn. And this is extraordinary, actually, because Carolyn is writing to us from the sunny Central Coastal. New South Wales. We've just got such an Antipodean flavour.

When I heard you discussing convicts in the family tree, I just had to jump on and tell you about ours. On my maternal grandmother's line, we go all the way back to the third fleet where a young woman named Susanna Brown was sent to our shores for stealing some gloves. Sent all the way to the other side of the world for stealing some gloves, Jane.

Oriel. She, like many convicts, ended up marrying another convict and they had a large family. She was my great, grandmother times four. Also on my maternal grandmother's line, but a different branch, we have a soldier, a private in the New South Wales call, though if you read the history books, some of them behaved worse than the convicts. They are free settlers to the early colony in my family tree as well. We've got an English grandfather, a Welsh great-grandmother and Scottish great-grandparents. Like most Australians,

we come from far and wide, but we're happy we ended up down under, especially given current world events. Well, blimey, that is quite the mix, isn't it? But I mean, I wonder how young your grandmother was when she was put on a ship and sent to the other side of the world. If you have any more details, it would be lovely to hear them. It really would actually. And that whole business of stealing some gloves, I mean, look, who knows what motivated that. Cold hands. Possibly just being impoverished and desperate. And I'm all for, you know, sorting out the criminal fraternity. But really, I don't want to sound like one of those old Tory short, sharp shockers of the, what decade was that? All right, Nigel. The kind of on your bike.

Oh, well, Tebett and there was the chat with the sideburns. Roads Boisson, do you remember him? Roadsbolemy. He can't still be around. A lot of people have commented on the interview with Georgia Wilmore about endometriosis. And endometriosis, it was the BAFTA award-winning film, wasn't it that you did the interview with Georgia about last week? Yes, Wyleman. Wilman, sorry, sorry, yeah. Wildman, what did I say? I don't know, but it doesn't matter.

We've smoothed it over, Jane. No one has noticed a thing. This is from Angela. I've often intended to email, but I've failed miserably. However, the interview last week with Georgia on endometriosis really did strike a chord. My sister is now 55. She had a hysterectomy when she was 30, after years of begging and suffering and being made to feel like a drama queen, exactly how Georgia described. She'd also been through anorexia as a

teenager and the medic said the painful periods and the anorexia were linked, and it was to do with her mental health. She now realizes that anorexia was about her taking control in her world, where nobody in the medical profession was listening to her or taking her seriously. You can imagine how happy we are that our daughter Talia has chosen women's health as a career path, and she is focusing on endometriosis. The lack of her. of funding and research resulting in up to 10 years to diagnose has been a real eye-opener and it's hard to believe it would be the same if this was an issue mainly affecting men. And this is a point that, you know, never mind international women's day, we've got to keep

making that, haven't we? Totally. Endometriosis is not something associated with hysterical ladies and girls. It's just a bloody awful thing that blights lives. Well, it really is. And I think Georgie's film is so amazing because she just makes that point and I've just never seen it so clearly depicted Jane where this lovely, happy, carefree little girl is bouncing around. Then along comes puberty, which happens to all of us. It happens if you're a boy. It happens if you're a girl. Happens to all of us. And her life

basically just stopped. And at times in her life, she's been in so much pain she's been in a wheelchair. she had a hysterectomy at the age of 29. You know, dealing with that cataclysmic end to your natural fertility is just such an unrecognised, untalked about thing. Because obviously a hysterectomy is viewed when you're in that much pain and suffering so badly as a cure to symptoms. But, I mean, it's way, way more than that. I mean, have a think about it.

It is not a cure if you want to have children. It's the end of a line of possibility. So the idea that you have to fight to be recognised when your symptoms are that severe and that it's still dismissed as women exaggerating things, making it up a bit. You know, you will have had this experience because, you know, we're both women of a certain age.

You've been in the workplace for 40 years. I was embarrassed to say that I ever had a bad period. I used to dress it up as something else. You know, I've got a stomach bug or, whatever it was. It didn't feel that it was allowed for me to say that I had very bad periods. And then I have come across male managers, not female managers, who have just slightly laughed at it as well.

It felt that it was an area that you could kind of make a little bit of a joke about. Just like, mate. Try it. Just try it. Yeah. So I'm really glad that it won the BAFTA. It's 15 minutes if you want to have a watch of it. And it really conveys, you know, just how much of Georgie's life has been taken up dealing with this whilst being expected to crack on.

Because it's... Maybe we've all cracked on too much. Just women. Yeah. It's just a woman's problem. No, no, no, no. Angela says one of our peers, one of her peers, that's her daughter's peers, is doing a PhD with a big pharmaceutical company, looking at the impacts on mental health and cost of sickness absence due to endometriosis in the workplace.

So there you go. these small steps give us hope that at last there's a shift in the right direction and comments like oh it's a period most women cope just get on with it and even having a baby will help can be buried in the past both of these things were repeatedly said to my sister on a different topic says angela shifting gears as we are prone to do this made me smile the other day my husband a true scouser has decided that my happy music and a tune that will always make him think of me is the soundtrack to your public's I'm podcast. Apparently if I go first, it's going to be played at my funeral. To be honest, I'm happy with that. Oh, Angela. So bizarre. Don't go too soon, Ange. But it's a nice relaxing tune, isn't it? So why not? So we're always on the lookout for merchandising opportunities. Why don't we release a Christmas single using that as our tune? We could sing along to it. It's like that Nick Berry did with EastEnders theme tune. Oh, yes. Anyone could fall in love.

Which reminds me. I know you're not a fan of Call the Midwife, but I did watch the episode last night. So I've just been told off. Can't do a spoiler. But something big happens. Something big happened on Call the Midwife last night. And it was very tastefully done.

But I will say that what happened on Call the Midwife last night has been about to happen for about seven series. It was actually quite glad when it did finally come to pass. So I had a real television double bill of. a treat last night because I had called the midwife, which it was genuinely moving, in all fairness, followed by David Morrissey as a taciturn headmaster on ITV. Oh, and gone. Gone.

Well, no, I'm saving that. Oh, okay. Because I want to, I probably want to binge that. Yes, I think you might. Maybe next weekend. Yeah. I did watch one episode of Vladimir, which is the... Oh, a lot of people are talking about this.

Leo Woodall vehicle, which is him and it's Rachel Weiss, isn't it? Yes, playing a... She plays a slightly older professor at a university married to a philandering professor who's been cancelled by the university. Aren't they both forlandering? Yes. Well, she then seems to be heading in the direction of philandering with Leo Woodall. The number of looks that he has been asked to do to camera to suggest that he is ripe and ready, I think are a little bit over the top, Jane. I'm not sure I'm going to finish that episode.

Oh. It's just too much. So I know what they're trying to do. What are they trying to do? Well, they're trying to flip the coin, you know, on the idea that an older woman wouldn't have kind of wandering hands and be a bit predatory towards a younger man. And she's kind of, is she entitled to it?

If we say that men aren't entitled to do that, where's the power dynamic and all of that? So I suppose he's being asked to play a little bit of a saucy kind of come-heather younger woman. That's what he's been asked to do in the flipping the coin. And how just briefly for the cameras. No, you can't. Can you recreate? Okay, all right, no.

Because I last saw. Okay, while do you talk, I'm going to try and fashion. I last saw Leo Woodall in Nuremberg. That just looked like you were having. having a few digestive issues. But, okay. I can't do it. No, okay.

But it's not working for you, Vladimir. No, I don't. Okay, well, no, just. I don't think it is. And I did, sometimes I do struggle a bit with the, in order for us to make progress and achieve equality, it's somehow about women behaving as badly. As badly as blokes. As men have always done.

And I just, I don't know. I just find that a little. little bit, I just think that's just a bit pathetic. Do you know what, me? I think I'm on safer ground with the taciturn head teacher played by David Morrissey. You carry on with that. And I'm going to give it a lot more thought and do a little bit more of a, okay. David Morrissey is, it's age appropriate for me. He's around the same age. I think it's absolutely fine. Although it has to be said, he may have been up to no good. So maybe I shouldn't be thinking of him in any way other than faint disapproval. But anyway, I haven't, I've only moved, I've only got to

the first episode. Okay. So I've finished the first. Well, did I? No, no, my internet went. It's always happening to me. I'm just not very much at ease in the 21st century. That's a difficult life on a Sunday evening of your Wi-Fi goes. Well, it just went plop and then I just thought, oh, it was after 10 o'clock. I thought I've had an offer and I went to bed. Okay. Well, maybe quite sensibly your internet company has put you on a curfew.

We watched, I swear, at the weekend as well, Jane. And if you haven't watched that, you really, really should. There's been such a hullabaloo about what happened at the BAFTAs. But as we all said after watching it, if everybody in the room and everybody at the BAFTAs had properly watched that film, how can it be that more care wasn't taken? I mean, you know, the whole point of the film

is to just explain how incredibly, incredibly difficult Tourette's for the Suffer and how astonishingly offensive some of the ticks can be. And as you watch the film, and this is what's hard to understand if you haven't watched, it. By the end of it, you are completely empathetic towards the cause of the Tourette's sufferer. Some terrible things have been said along the way in the form of ticks. But you come out of it understanding that it comes from that place in your brain. So just as a tiny example, and I won't repeat any of the offensive language.

But there's a scene in the film where John moves into a flat and it's a council block and he's allocated a flat really high at the top. and his social worker says, well, of course, we'll put bars across it because of your tics. And one of his tics is that genuinely belief, you know, that he might jump off a top floor flat or a building. And he says, you know,

one of his tics is, I'm going to jump off. And that's a tiny feeling that many, many, many of us without Tourette's get. Yeah. When jeopardy is over there. Yes, yeah. There's a bit of your brain that recognizes the jeopardy

by thinking the very worst. thing. And in Tourette's cases, by saying the very worst thing. So if anybody, you know, if everybody had watched that, you would absolutely understand that there wasn't an intention to cause, you know, horrendous offence or embarrassment or anything else like that. Does the film explain, I haven't seen it, when Tourette's first manifests itself? Well, I wouldn't want to answer that because it's such an individual case history. But what happened in that? In the film, it didn't, it didn't appear in John's life in any really recognisable form

until he was about 15, 16 years old. But I honestly don't know. They don't reference whether or not that's usual or unusual. But it's a remarkable film. I couldn't recommend it highly enough. I don't know. I need to blow my nose. The glamour is just unceasing, isn't it?

Why would, it's so typical of us that we start this, let's be honest, experiment in show business for us. I mean obviously not. Both full of cold. Oh, it's just unending. I want to bring in somebody from the BBC, music correspondent.

Oh, now this made me laugh. Mark Savage. Hello, Mark. And thanks for taking our, thanks for just, well, thanks for not getting offended. That's what I really mean. But I appreciate it, Mark. He says, I just wanted to say,

I thoroughly enjoyed your review of my review of the Harry Styles album. That sentence was a bit bit, bit much, wasn't it? Well, it was Mark and it wasn't. I actually slightly admired it. He did say about Harry Stiles' new album, which is called Kiss All the Time. Disco

Occasionally. He said at least one of the songs, or was it the lyrics to one of the songs, was like dandelion seeds floating in the breeze. Anyway, on reflection, I rather like it, I've decided, Mark. So you see, that's what happens when you write to say that you don't mind us having a go at you. We begin to decide that actually

you were right in the first place. and you're very talented and thank you for having a sense of humour. Is that apologetic? No, absolutely. I think it's perfect. Spot on. No more.

No more. I haven't got any more. But Mark, have I made my gratitude clear? Yes, I think you have. So sometimes when a review's got something really funny or punch in it, it does slightly make your day, doesn't it?

I mean, all credit to the very, very long-term reviewers because they've got to come out with something new and descriptive every time. Yeah. Who was it that recently, it was a TV reviewer, No, no, it was Tom Peck, our fantastic political sketchwriter at the Times. Yeah. When Martin Lewis erupted on GM TV at Kebby Badenock.

It was a telemarkets, wasn't it? Teller. Tom described Martin Lewis as a human discount voucher. That's very funny. You see, some of those, I mean, I do think Tom's in a glass of his own, but you have to really be on your game for a sketchwriter, don't you? And he does it every day. He does it every day.

And I absolutely bout him. But Mark, so do you. I'm sure you also. It is a beautiful phrase, actually. I had a short-term career as a television critic, and I got fired. So, you know, let's just back in the box, Garvey, that basically is what I mean. Who do we have come up? Because this is a guest-free edition.

Is it? Case you were thinking, shut up. For God's sake. But who else have we got coming up over this week? I don't know, but I've got to. Well, can I just tell you that Eric Schlosser is on? So he wrote Fast Food Nation. Oh, yes.

It's celebrating its 25th anniversary. And there's just so much to talk about there, Jane. Because when you write a book like that, which was all about the change in diet in America and, you know, this kind of bomb that had hit them nutritionally. And you just think, oh, my God, you know, we are now talking about a generation who weren't even born then, who are in such a worse position. So it'll be fascinating to talk to him about what he hoped would happen. because there was outrage at the time.

You know, it was quite a punchy book. Did he get it and did he lose, I mean, what happened to him? Did his career flourish as a result of that book? No, I don't. I mean, he definitely wasn't kind of panned or left on the sidelines. But it definitely wouldn't, I wouldn't have thought that it had huge impact at the time, but obviously not enough impact to really change the direction. And I speak as somebody, I go to.

to the well-known beef burger joint, probably three or four times a year. And I never, if I'm honest, I enjoy every single morsel. I really do. I have the same order every time. And it never fails to deliver. But what does that make me? Does that make me an idiot?

Or just, I'm not addicted to fast food, but I certainly enjoy it when I have. Well, I don't think, I mean, doesn't that just make you entirely normal? I think that's, I think it's totally fine. What dare you? No, but it is totally fine, isn't it? If your entire diet doesn't consist of that level of saturated fat and all of that kind of junk, then...

But it is beautifully tasted. Yes, it is. And it's moorish. And it's incredibly moorish. Well, I'm looking forward to hearing that. I've just remembered I'm interviewing Katia Radler. Yes, you are. About all sorts of European matters.

She is the BBC's Europe editor, isn't she? She is. And she's made a very interesting documentary. But I've just found Jackie, who's... She's headlined matching garments in Ostealthy. Australia, she's in Sydney. She just says, if only I could wear a bra for more than one day, it's so sweaty here at the moment. It's an impossibility.

As to matching underwear, I'm so hot, I just don't care. I did actually say earlier, Jackie, that people in Australia were so hot they weren't wearing any bras. What Jackie's saying is that she can only wear it for one day. So I take back what I said earlier. I've made yet another mistake, and I apologise. I don't think that's your worst. I mean, I've had Mark Savage, I've had bras in Australia, and I've had Tring. And that's just in this edition of off-air.

I mean, I don't know. Okay. Well, our correspondence are always very kind and very forgiving. But yes, I think probably you should never go to Tring. I'm not planning to. No. Right, we will regroup at the same time tomorrow without the cameras. Steady yourselves against something firm in order to manage your disappointment, everybody.

Jane and Fiat Times dot radio is the email address. Hopefully we'll have stopped blowing our nose. Noses, don't we don't have a joint nose. We've both got our own. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another Offair with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The Jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app.

Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive. producer is Rosie Cutler.