Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Unprintable life-time ambitions

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

The weather is clement and Jane's got some words on your turf. There's also chat about speed awareness, winter weddings and dried sage. Plus, author R.S. Burnett discusses his novel ‘Whiteout’. Send your suggestions for the next book club pick!If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well you're still using your neighbour's ring doorbell aren't you? Parking outside my neighbour's ring doorbell, yep, so far so good. Nothing has happened to the Skoda Monte Carlo. Because people must look at it, I mean, and think, oof! I wish I could have that. It's about being seen at these things. I can't go, I just can't. Right, welcome. We were just talking about how we can't go out.

What are you doing? We can't go out in the week. But we both have been out this week in fairness to us. We've just been gadflies on the social scene of London. I really wouldn't say that. I went to another BBC Leaving do and you went to Stig Abel's book launch. I did. Just a little just a little light into our social lives which are absolutely a flame. They really are. But my do was very good but this is on Tuesday night and honestly

although I was home, God's honest truth, at a quarter past nine I was still getting over it for much of yesterday. What's happened to me? I know. It's preposterous. I was home by three minutes past eight. I'm still feeling it. And also I don't drink at all during the week.

I tell you what I did do on the way to the book launch, which was really lovely actually. I would just like to say sometimes book launches, I mean you must have been to absolutely thousands of them, they can feel a little bit dry actually because you've got this weird combination of people, people always invite some of their old friends and their family but then there are lots of people who should be there, so lots of journalists who hopefully are going to review the book and all that kind of stuff. So sometimes it's just a slightly uncomfortable mix of people and people just cannot wait to go. Literally by 7.30 the room just cleared. Dawn's back to normal. Dawn's a big bookshop in London where people really, really want to have their book launches actually. But no, this one was at a place called Ketnars in Soho. It was

such a lovely atmosphere, Jane. No exaggeration. It was just, it was a really lovely, lovely book launch. So good on him for that. And he was in the podcast yesterday and that is quite enough. But that's quite enough donkey carrying from me. Yeah, blimey. Well, I know you've read all his works. I'm going to make a start. I am going to make a start. Well, I think you'll love, as you know, mentioned in the interview, I think Jake is just a really, really good character from Stig because he's got stuff in his locker, but not that very, very dark stuff that quite a few male detectives have.

Where you just think at some stage, you just think you actually you might die. It's in a self-inflictedicted drug-addled haze whilst drinking too much whiskey and listening to JJ Cale. Right. JJ Cale. Still with us or Agonah? I can't remember. Oh I don't know. No okay but very much from the the darker end of the music world I think in the sense that you you know, a bit bleak.

So, Eve's busy again on the deadoralive.com. I tell you who got an amazing review. He's dead. 2013. 2013. Was it that long ago? Rest in peace. JJ Cale left us. Cracking reviews in the Times today and elsewhere have noticed for Elton John and Brandi Carlisle. And I didn't know about Brandi, I must admit, completely new name to me,

but they've been working together and apparently they did a stage show and it's five stars for everybody. Oh, Elton. Yeah, he's still going. Now, I've brought in today a magazine that, you know, in every office, every workplace in the land, there's stuff that just lurks. No one knows how it got there. No one knows why it's there. No one ever knows why it's still there.

And this magazine has been irritating me ever since I arrived here many, many years ago. It's a 2019 edition of an industry magazine called Pitch Care, the Turf Care magazine, right? Okay, give it to me sister. Is it got a lonely heart section? It hasn't actually. I wish it had, because they're all very outdoorsy.

Female with perfect edging or acquired. Very outdoorsy types in fleeces. So 160 pages of... Oh come on, read out some diary dates. What is this? It's like the social calendar in AstroTurf Land. Well look, it's all about where sporting events are happening on turf, but five years ago, Fi. Six years ago. So no use, no other use in Ormond. So why is this still here? Anyway,

the big article in Pitchcare back in 2019, which is pre-pandemic, and so, you know, it's a distant land as far as most of us are concerned. Don't miss Major Irrigation Project, a review of the recent work undertaken at Birkenstead Golf Club. If you're a regular at Birkenstead Golf Club, let us know how that went, that big irrigation work you had. And there's also one of those Q&A's where they've interviewed, I won't name him, but a young man who works as a course manager at a golf club. And I'm just really intrigued because he has in the Q&A's asked, what are your pet peeves? And he says the toilet roll on the wrong way, or people who dragged their

feet. Well, in my experience, men never replace toilet roll on the wrong way or people who drag their feet. Well, in my experience, men never replace toilet roll on the hanger do they? What's the right way? What's the wrong way? Well, now the loo roll is meant to appear from the front. Appear from the front, yes, and go down surely rather than you have to bring it up. That can't be right, can it? I've never, ever given this any thought. Anyway, he goes on, he's asked later on, do you have a lifetime ambition?

Yes, he says intriguingly, but it's not printable. Okay, could it, could it possibly include something to do with turf? I don't know. The turf world. It's had me really thinking, I was up half the night thinking, what was that bloke's unprintable lifetime ambition? He does say his dream date would be Madonna, but 15 years ago. Oh, that's horrible. Sorry, that's really horrible.

I would name him, I could name him, but I'm not going to because maybe he's discovered feminism and a whole new way of thinking. Now, where is the answer to that question yesterday about the ring calls? Oh, so that was a bit of a red herring actually because somebody else who is listening, Carmel, who is also a New Zealand resident and someone who finds our local media quite awful a lot of the time, I'm reading now, I couldn't help but sigh, could you tell, that your correspondent from Hamilton yesterday had seen the article in the New Zealand Herald about the man whose wife had developed unattractive wrinkles. So I checked the Herald website and yes, lo and behold, there it was. I would send you the link,

but it is inexplicably considered a premium article, which should need a subscription to read. Well, there is a limit. However, on this occasion, I can't blame the local media entirely because the article appears to have been reprinted from the Daily Telegraph in the UK and it's written by one Rachel Johnson, sister of your former Prime Minister Boris, I know that that triggers you, see attached screenshot, don't look at it Jane. Oh dear this feels like one of those situations where absolutely nobody wins.

So Carmel has very thoughtfully copied and pasted the article and it's, you know, it's Rachel Johnson imagining that somebody had said that to her. So it's a, I'm going to use my little fingers here, it's a comedy article. It's a comedy article. I'm doing it pretty relaxed. little fingers here. It's a comedy article. It's a comedy article. Relax. A comedy article. So we can all stand down but that's not to blame our original correspondent from New Zealand because it was an absolutely atrocious headline but actually one that you could believe somebody somewhere has written. They have written exactly that. My wife is getting old, what should she do?

I can't cope anymore. What should she do? I myself am ageless. There is that fellow isn't there who's determined to live forever. In fact we're hearing quite a lot about... Oh is it Brian Johnson? Yeah he is. He's obsessed with his donger and measuring his erections in the middle of the night and just kind of thinking, oh my god. You know, will it ever end? And if people like him are going to live forever, what a world! That's the problem, isn't it? And I find that exactly the same with the space argument.

You know, if people like that are going to go and populate other planets, then just forget it. Absolutely forget it, mate. You go on your own and Brian you just measure it yourself. Nobody else actually cares. Well, and also I would always think, if it fell to me to carry out that measurement I'd need to find my glasses. The moment would just pass, wouldn't it? The joy would have gone long before I was in position to measure the thing. Right, now let's move on to talking about internet safety, which let's face it, is rather more important.

We've been talking a lot about adolescence and thank you to everybody who's watched those programmes and has emailed us about them, still very much part of the national conversation. But this is from a listener who says that she's interested in what people do when your child who may or may not have a smartphone, possibly doesn't have one, goes to visit a child's house, another child's house. And Kat makes the point that it would surely be a no-brainer for family households and would give us some peace of mind being able to ask fellow parents whether their internet is set to 18 plus when arranging play dates. What she's after here is a kind of certification system for the internet, which we just don't have at the moment.

It's a free-for-all out there, absolute bandit country, but you wouldn't be able to take your seven-year-old to an 18 film, would you? You just couldn't do it. So we expect age ratings on our films, TV shows and music, she says, I don't think it's too much to ask that internet providers categorize violent content as 18 plus, only accessible if the customer

themselves has opted in on the internet contract. So yeah I mean why aren't we able to do that? I mean I know you can set parental controls, would that have you covered if you'd done that? Yes it would have you covered if you'd done that but I think the point is about whether you're opting in to something or opting out. So if it was standard for all Wi-Fi to be censoring content and then you had to, you know, get out your passcode and your key and all of that malarkey, read through what was going to be available when you opted in and all that kind of stuff, that would actually be incredibly helpful, wouldn't it? Because you'd really have to give it some thought as to who else was in the house. But you'd be put in a position where you're actually saying, yes, I'm opting into filth and

beheadings. Yes. But that's actually it, isn't it? That's it. That's exactly it. So it would make people think about what it was that they would be enabling their children and partners and visiting relatives and friends and probably neighbours if you don't have a suitable password. Well you're still using your neighbours ring doorbell aren't you? Parking outside my neighbours ring doorbell, yep so far so good. Nothing has happened to us, go to Monte Carlo. Because people must look at it and think oof, I wish I could have that, but it's protected.

So, I mean, there have been quite a lot of car thefts in the area. Hackney's well known for it actually. I think we're always in the top ten of the most expensive car insurance, premium postcodes and what have you. But so far, no car I've ever owned. It's easily touched. Well, I'll tell you what, that's something people remember about you. Nobody touched her. It's golden. I don't know why I've done an accent there. I'm so sorry.

Just to go back in all seriousness to that, I just think things like that are such a good idea and it's really frustrating, Jane, isn't it? Because we cover this a lot in the news and we quite often find ourselves now too often doing interviews with people whose lives have been ripped apart by what young people have seen on the internet, lasting damage throughout the generations forever and ever and ever. And then we'll talk to somebody from one of the tech providers and they won't answer questions. We've had to talk to somebody from one of the tech providers and they won't answer questions. We've had to agree the terms and conditions of the interview first and

there are certain points that they won't go to and all of that. And our correspondence point is right. We just all need a better level playing field. There is no argument I can see for the positive benefits of that kind of horrendous content of school shootings, macabre activities, terrible misogyny being meted out. What's the argument for it? Free speech! Except the people who are in control of it all won't talk to us and won't answer questions about it. I mean, it's more than an irony, it's absolutely sickening. It's so frustrating. In journalism it is really, really frustrating. And quite often, you know, you get that pushback of, oh yeah, mainstream media.

Right, okay. Well, you know, we have to obey certain rules in mainstream media for the protection of people. I mean, you know, not to disappear up our own fundaments too much, but that is being proved to be quite important. So I'd love an opt-in to Filthy Content. Yes, it gets complicated because I'd have to say I'll opt in for a bit of violence with a plot, please. So earlier in the week I was being very rude about this city as ours, the new Liverpool-based gangland thriller, but I'm three episodes in now and I've got to say I'm invested. Are you? Yes, it's changed slightly and some of the female characters have moved more to the fore of the action

because initially they were just kind of wandering around in upmarket leisure gear. Were they in the back of the kitchen behind the island? They kind of knew what their male partners were up to but they kind of didn't know at the same time and they'd had their hair vigorously blow dried. So there was a lot of that going on and I was a bit irritated but it looks like there's a bit more to it than I might have imagined, so Sean Bean and everybody else can keep on entertaining me. Right. Oh no, don't say things like that. But that actually was such a whisper. Nobody, nobody would be able to get that back into their ears.

Here comes the three R's and it is anonymous. But it's anonymous, but image of a married couple. They've sent a photo. It takes away some of the confusion over your identity. Maybe your name has just fallen off the end of the page. Here we go. I'm just listening to your podcast on the way to work as a maths teacher. Important to note, I trained as a maths teacher.

I laughed out loud at your suggestions that teachers pick up rejection, resilience and resentment. I've taught 25- minute lessons on all three and once a week I teach reading too. Not quite what I had in mind when I joined the profession. I do think it's important that teenagers hear these things from as many trusted adults as possible but I do also sometimes feel out of my depth. PSU once read out my email about my partnership proposal attached as a photo of our winter wedding. Well look, you both look absolutely beautiful. It's beautiful photograph that, yeah.

And I'm sure that many teachers who were listening to our conversation yesterday thought, well actually we do, we teach exactly that. We are in charge of teaching, what was it, resilience, resentment and I've forgotten the third one, rejection. Rejection, yes. All the time anyway. So I think winter weddings are really lovely. I think the summer wedding, I mean, A, you've got a lot of sweat patches on the men, and B, in this country, it just doesn't guarantee anything at all.

No, that's true. The flowers droop, the old people droop, everything droops, the panna cotta goes all sheeny. I think just accept we live in the Northern Hemisphere and have the winter wedding. I think there is a lot to be said for that. I think we've solved the whole wedding problem. Just do it in December. Or November, that unloveliest of months. Shush it up a bit by getting married. Are you asking? Oh, I was going to actually do it in a less public setting, but yes, okay, no. It's Mothering Sunday this week, which I'm saying that very pedantically because that's

what Radio 4 used to insist. Mothering Sunday. Mothering Sunday. Mother's Day. No, well, Mothering Sunday is a Christian festival. That was always what was happening. Anyway, lots of people are very ambivalent about it and I absolutely get it. This anonymous contributor says, my mum died when I was 12 and I thought I'd got a handle on how to deal with this day.

That is until my daughter was born. I celebrated my first Mother's Day as a mum when she was in neonatal intensive care. So that was a 0-60 intro to things, I should say so. I honestly think if you've been through the neonatal intensive care experience and out the other side you really have been through a tough experience so absolutely respect that. 19 years later she says I still really struggle with the day especially the years when her March birthday coincides with a mother's day weekend. It still feels like something I have to endure for the sake of my mother-in-law, rather than a day that I enjoy for myself.

Although, she says, things are a little easier since I put my foot down and refuse to have anything to do with card or gift buying for my mother-in-law. Our relationship is a whole other email, she says. Well, actually, you should never have to buy a Mother's Day card for your mother-in-law. She's not your mother. No, I think you can. Yeah, but you shouldn't have to. No, I mean, no one should have to do anything.

No, but it's... I think it's quite nice of you to. Yeah, I mean, if relations are sort of cordial and you think she'd appreciate it, then fine. But it's not something I'd expect anyone to do, really. think in these modern times there's lots of that going on and lots of stepmothers getting cards and you know stand in mums getting cards and stuff. I think stand in stepmothers are different. I think the mother-in-law if there is a son or you know a daughter involved then they send the card. It's not for the other half of the partnership

to go out and source the card. Surely not. I think I've probably done that many times, Jane, and not, it's not been the biggest of my bug bears, if I can be honest. Well, it'd be one of mine. Actually, in fairness to my outlaw, former mother-in-law, she never celebrated Mothering Sunday,

so I need to make that very clear. She made it very clear, and I was delighted not to celebrate it. Okay. Are you celebrating? In the sense that I'm taking an Avanti West up north on Saturday and then my eldest child and I are spending Sunday together. Okay. Well, that's nice. Yes. I think I'll be buying lunch and then we're booking a holiday, which I'm also paying for. So yes.

That's good. Well, that's absolutely how it should be. Well done, you. But look, in all seriousness, of course it would be lovely. Yeah. What are you doing? Well, I can't get, you see, I can't go to the Swindon because of the rail replacement bus service.

Well, there's no guarantee I'll get to Liverpool. No. So, you know, we're just, we're parking it and obviously a gift has been sent and a card. Don't spoil the surprise. No, it's alright, Mum doesn't listen to this. No, nor does my husband. We're absolutely fine. Nor should she. So we'll bump it further down the line and yeah, I think I'm definitely, I'm with my two.

Well, there we go. That's a sum. It's a bit, yeah, I mean, exactly, because we are, and we're both very fortunate to be in this position, both daughters and mothers. And it's not something that everybody gets to experience at the same time. So we are experiencing it. And yes, we're very grateful for that. It's a treat. Yeah, I completely agree. Do you know what? So I know that everybody has such different experiences and we have spoken on the podcast before about not being ashamed

of when we're having a very good time in life. So I do want to read this because I think it is really absolutely lovely. And this is Anonymous 2. I'm now 74 years old. And as you may know, we don't reach the second half of life without facing huge obstacles alongside many joys in life, especially in our work, relationships and family. And nobody believes that being a mum is anything other than a massive learning curve and quite a lot of hard work interspersed with occasional all-consuming joy. So when a beacon of light shines through as it did, when this came through my letterbox this morning, I feel the most blessed and happiest mum in the world. I don't know what I've done to deserve this. Even my own mum criticised my parenting skills, saying that I was a bit too intimidating.

She herself was very gentle and kind, not my style at all. So that my three 40 plus daughters, 40 plus years old daughters, are willing to give their time like this and bring hilarity and fun once again into my life is a treasure I can never take for granted. So our correspondence, three adult daughters, have mocked up an invitation to Sky Arts Landscape Artist of the Year. It says we are pleased to confirm that your garden has been selected for the Landscape Artist of the Year Mother's Day edition on Saturday the 29th of March from 3 till 6pm. We kindly request your garden looks bonny. They've secured some other people, and I won't read out any of the names obviously, to do the judging. It may also be useful if you could look at all your art equipment prior to the event.

Some drinks and snacks will be made available to you throughout the event, but it may also be useful if you have some emergency pink Prosecco on hand in case of extenuating circumstances. We look forward to seeing you and the sign-off. One of them is the President, one of them is the Chief Executive Officer and one of them, in brackets, another really important job. So you have absolutely nailed it there. That's really good. You adult children and we hope you have a fantastic, fantastic Mothering Sunday. Yeah, that does sound lovely. And actually, I think the weather is set reasonably fair. Is it clement? It's relatively clement, yeah. It's as good as it gets in the United Kingdom in, what is it now? Why don't they use that on the weather forecast? This evening across the north west it will be clement.

Yes so you can go out with just a parka on, make the most of it. Jane and Fee from Jenny please see attached our solution to the cat litter unsightliness smell issue. Simply build a cupboard for it. We had some dead space in the kitchen so now our grumpy 13 year old cat has her own room to do her business in. The door will be closed finally when she eventually pops her clogs which won't be any time soon to the evident dismay of our golden retriever. PS the cupboard isn't just for her she's got the entire ground floor oh I see yes she's roaming free she roams free around the ground floor so the cupboard let me have a look this is very very discreet isn't it she just pops in does her thing and

then comes out how how do they know she might want to go yeah because it's got a proper open closed door yeah isn't it so she sits outside hopping from one paw to the next as an indication that it's time to open the door. Is that how it works Jenny? But also how do they then, because the cat litter tray looks like it's bigger than the door aperture, how are they getting the poo out? We've got more questions here Jenny, I'm afraid you're not going to be selected for Living Magazine until you can furnish us with more information about how your cat facility works. But it's a good idea, just box them in, box in that smell.

Yeah, we haven't all got dead space in our kitchen, have we? Why, what's your kitchen so full of? Just my wonderful creativity. My undercooked spaghetti. Right, God. This is a book club suggestion and we are taking book club suggestions now. It comes in from Carolyn with a K and an E. May I suggest Less by Andrew Sean Greer. Have you heard of this? I haven't.

The protagonist is male but fortunately he's a sympathetic gay man so happy days. Arthur is a failing writer and about to turn 50 when he receives a wedding invitation to an ex-boyfriend's wedding. He doesn't want to go but feels he can't decline so instead he begins accepting invitations to various unquestionable literary events around the world. I laughed loud and often as I traveled with Arthur and also shed a tear. The book is full of wisdom, humor and heart. It's the perfect antidote to our current times." I like the sound of that. I think that just in our, you know, Venn diagram of audience experiences, I suspect that people might feel that they can laugh at literary events because they may have been to them and felt an element of humor was in the room too. Yes, they can be funny, literally.

Oh no, I think they're fantastic. But sometimes you look around and you think this is a comedic novel waiting to happen. Yeah, there's a... You know, there's a special St John's ambulance with people whose shoulder is gone because they've got too many tote bags. There are themes, Jane. There's a lot of linen, shall we say, and sometimes that can get you down. It doesn't require a visit to the St John's ambulance, but nevertheless.

Anyway, we'll both be appearing at a number of... We love them! We can't see the wood for the trees for all the invitations we've got to the tree. Ladies, says Lesley, listening to your podcast from yesterday, I mean, who knows when that was, you were talking about the signposts North and south and didn't think they were anywhere for east and west. Well I can tell you where they are. I, can everybody just pay attention to this because this is great geographical detail, I'm looking at Eve but she isn't necessarily in my line of fire, there'll be other people listening Eve, dear god I hope so. I moved to Wiltshire in 2001 having

lived for years in Stonehaven. Fee you may know it, says Lesley. Home of the pneumatic tyre. Oh yes, on the north east coast of Scotland. Now when you're driving up there, either the... Stonehaven! Now when you're driving up there, either the sea is on your left hand side, so you're going south, or on your right hand side, where would you be going then? North. And you don't really have to think about it. Now this is super handy for people like me with no sense

of direction whatsoever so I'm going to think about that. Thank you Leslie. Why don't you go and live there? You'd like that wouldn't you? Not long after moving I went to pick up my daughter from Bristol Airport and driving out of the airport I came across a sign, oh yeah this would be me, that just said M4 East or M4 West and I just completely panicked. Which way was Devises? I haven't got a bloody clue! I spent 20 years down south and in 2021 I moved back up to Aberdeenshire where my north and south knowledge is absolutely perfect. Yours from a very sunny beautiful Aberdeenshire, Leslie. Leslie thank you very much. Yes I really feel for you there because I would be not helped in any way by those motorway signs that say either M4 East or M4 West.

I'm completely with Leslie I would just think sorry I know I haven't got time to check which one I'm driving for a start so I just think sorry. I know I haven't got time to check which well I'm driving for a start so I can't start fiddling with anything to work out where my direction is Yeah, I would sympathize too. Yeah, just don't go. So I think it's the same isn't it on the clockwise anti-clockwise M25 junctions I can't I really can't picture where where I am on them at all really can't picture where I am on them at all. Well, what I've noticed about younger people's driving also is that they are, in fact in the test these days, they actually encompass using the screen and using sat-nav. Good.

Good, but a whole different way of driving. Yeah. A completely different, because you are, I just don't use my technical, you'll be amazed to hear, I don't use the technical stuff I've got in my car to navigate. No, but that's why you ended up circling Hounslow for four hours trying to get back from Heathrow. It wasn't Hounslow, it was somewhere in Buckinghamshire. No, I don't know how I got there when my actual destination was Terminal 2 at Heathrow Airport.

No, but I know what you mean. So I'm completely with you. So your eye, their eyes, because it's not me. Their eyes are sort of on the road, yeah, but also looking at the screen. Yes, and also I think it takes, I find it horrible using SetNav because it takes away my brain's ability to process time as well. You know, because you're constantly looking at this thing that says 1.7 miles to the exit or whatever. But I've just spent 40 years going, well, if it's a mile away, you know, I'll be I'm doing 60 miles an hour

I'll be there in a minute. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I don't like that. I have to reprogram my brain to understand all of those things and I think it might be a bit late in the day to do that. I definitely feel it's too late for me, which won't come as a surprise to very many people. There's just an overload of information and you're right. I don't feel I need any of it. I definitely feel it's too late for me, which won't come as a surprise to very many people. There's just an overload of information and you're right, I don't feel I need any of it. I suppose it's quite handy to know if there's a speed camera, but I shouldn't be speeding. But also our roads are full of people speeding up and then suddenly braking. We know what you're doing.

And it's just worth saying that neither Fina or I have done a speed awareness course now for... Six months at least. It's more than that. It's a lot more than that. And it's just worth saying that neither Fina or I have done a speed awareness course now for six months It's a lot more than that So I did I said a monumental traffic jam in London the other day and there was an exit that I could have taken But it would have put three points on my license and I did honestly think Jane how many if I got Maybe maybe I could afford another three, you know, just to get home within the hour. I was only about 500 yards away. Have you read the email about crystals? You go for it.

This is really interesting. It's from Lorna from Liverpool. Wonderful. Now, she recently went to Marrakesh on a solo trip. Really recommends it. The people were so lovely and helpful, allowing me to practise my terrible French and Arabic and responding really positively when I tried. There's a big but coming. There is an unfortunately. She says, I'll spare you the gory details.

Don't spare us. We love that sort of stuff. But she got salmonella while she was there and she's currently on day 19 of symptoms. Who's counting she says? I am. Alright, Lorna I'm so sorry that does sound really really terrible. I practice leaving the house on Sunday and she can and she's only at the stage where she can practice leaving the house by popping into Liverpool and making a beeline for a woo-woo shop to get some crystals for gut health. Now what she chose was, now I don't know whether I'm

pronouncing this right, carnelian, citrine and amethyst. I am aware of how batshit this sounds but having tried everything else I'm at that point. The news so far is they don't appear to be working. Fee is astonished. So I thought I should report back to Fee. I did hoot when crystals were mentioned as it finally felt like my call to email, but I also felt terribly ignorant having not considered where they were coming from. I'm normally quite good about things like this. Next steps are to sage the house. Do you know what that is? Well, that is lighting dried sage and wafting it around and sage is meant to have superb restorative properties and also wards off evil, doesn't it? Sage does.

Yeah. Does it though? Well, I mean, it's been used for centuries. Do you know what? Weirdly, I do kind of believe in all of that. It's just, no, it's just the crystal, you know, £39.99, you know, a crystal shop on the Tottenham Court Road. Sorry, sorry Tottenham Court Road. But you know, you've got all of this, you know, crystals for liver, crystals for your kidney, crystals for your inverted tummy button. It's just like, no! If it was that simple. Well, those tech titans wondering about eternal life would just be relying completely on crystals, wouldn't they?

Well, they would. And then, you know, at the till you can buy a battery charger. 5,099! Very celestial. OK, so let's all sage our houses over the weekend to ward off evil. Although, I've not been aware of evil stalking into my house, I've got to be honest, and I haven't saged the house. I do have some dried sage. Perhaps I should just scatter it more liberally around the property.

And light it. No, don't do that. No, God Almighty. Lorna is off to a work conference next week. Oh God, I hope it goes alright. I was lucky enough to be awarded a scholarship, I'm putting a brave face on along with my quite literal big girl pants. I'm a bit scared and I wanted to say thank you both for bringing some sunshine to the shit times, pardon the pun. She says, I like Jane's thoughts on this city as ours because I'm obsessed with Liverpool and I mean she lives in Liverpool and she's still obsessed with it. I'm only watching it for the shots of the Leiver building and the cathedrals. I find, I do find myself genuinely striding past these landmarks.

So I'd have to disagree with Jane's comment that people don't do that because they do. I mean it's true, you know when you see in TV drama people in London walking past the houses of Parliament. But of course some people do. I really would recommend though going down all of the restorative, you know, kefir roots and stuff like that. Filona. Yeah, a big bout of salmonella or any kind of food poisoning. Because I think I'm on safe ground. As we know my wellness centre was shut down by the authorities, by the CQC. But I think I am on quite safe ground in saying that you do need to replenish all of those good bacteria in your gut

when you've had a terrible episode of food poisoning and the kefirs and the kimchi's can do that because they've got life cultures in them. Or just have a bagel, which is what I do, Lorna. But honestly, I really hope for the best. Yes, you poor thing. That must be frightening actually after 19 days. Kate is angry. She's incensed. She's seen the one show tonight promoting another show from another two men traveling around a foreign country. Well, we talked about this and then we got a very effective email pointing out that loads of women go around countries. Just a great big long list of women who do travelogues. But you're right, there is yet another one this week, Neil Morrissey and Martin Clu.

See, we're going somewhere, I can't remember where. I guess Gino Ducampo and his sexually inappropriate behaviour has ruined Italy. Let's hope Neil and Martin keep their hands to themselves in France. No, well, I'm sure they will. There's no suggestion around those two, so I think we're okay. Let's hope Neil and Martin keep their hands to themselves in France. I love France. Well, I'm sure they will. There's no suggestion around those two, so I think we're OK. I do remember the promo for David Baddiel and Hugh Dennis on a canal side in Bordeaux somewhere, where Hugh was having to massage David Baddiel's knee. There's ever

been a moment where I've been envious of these guys and thought Jane and I could do that. I thought no we wouldn't let you. I don't think that would work. Right let's talk to an author Rob Burnett. His Antarctic thriller Whiteout is his first novel. It's out now and you've got to say it's pretty timely because we are now assured that calm has officially been restored to South Africa's Antarctic research base after those recent pleas for rescue from the colleagues of a man thought to have become mentally unstable. have some sympathy for him in all fairness, it is pretty brutal. Dark of course for months on end, outside temperatures plummeting to minus 20 plus Celsius and of course she cannot choose your companions. In White Out, the thriller that Rob has recently published, the valiant central character is Rachel. She ploughs on through the freezing wastelands when she knows there is a fair chance that she could be the last person left alive on planet Earth and you've got to ask yourself if that

person were me would I keep going? I really hope that has whetted your appetite for White Out which I really really enjoyed. Rob good afternoon to you how are you? Hi yeah I'm very good thanks how are you? Well it's great to have you on I'm very well thank you. We'll deal with the Falkland Islands and where you live first of all if you don't mind. Why have you on. I'm very well, thank you. We'll deal with the Falkland Islands and where you live first of all, if you don't mind. Why are you there? Because I know you spent some part of your childhood there, but then you moved back relatively recently, didn't you? Yeah, so my parents first came out here in the 1970s from the UK,

a long time before the war, so it was really in those days, very, very isolated and unusual, you know, a lot of people hadn't even heard of the place. They moved out to a very remote sheep farm, no phones, no television. And they spent a few years here. I was born in the UK and then we came back here when I was a kid.

And I did most of my growing up here, left to go to university, spent 12 or 13 years working in London and about three years ago a friend of mine from school was getting married here, invited me to the wedding and I thought yeah I'm going to come back I'll go to the wedding and I'll maybe have a couple of months in the Falklands and see everybody and that was three years ago and I'm still here. And what is keeping you there? It's all, I mean, simply put, it's home for me. It's always been home really. I had my

kind of formative years here growing up as a child. The friends I made at school when I was younger here are still some of my best friends to this day. While the time I was living away in the UK, I visited, you know, when I could, it's very expensive, but I did visit when I could. And I kept in touch with people. And there was there was always a pull of home for me. But for a long time, there were other things that got in the way of partners or work or whatever that meant I couldn't come back At a certain point those things ceased to be an issue and I came back temporarily and just found that I really had no desire

To to leave again. I was enjoying myself being around my friends. The lifestyle is a bit different to the UK And I was just happy. Yeah. Well a bit different to the UK and I was just happy. Yeah, well a bit different. I mean it is a very very isolated community and is it not very claustrophobic? Well it can be a little bit, yes there is there can be an element of that. You know I always used to say that you know when I'd come back here for a holiday or I'd be back from university for a few weeks you know you can't walk through town without meeting 20 people that you know, and having a chat or you go into the bank and ask for some money and they don't ask for security word they say, Oh, do you want that 20s roll, you know, and so that so it's, it's lovely. But yeah, there are times it can get a bit claustrophobic, I think you need to be able to get out once in a while you know for a couple of weeks and shake it off and see somewhere else and but for the most part I like that I like that small community feel. Okay let's talk about the book which honestly I really did enjoy what attracted you to the idea of a thriller in first of all

in this really claustrophobic setting, perhaps not unlike life in the Falklands, on a research base in the Antarctic. Just tell us about your interest in the subject. Well that kind of came after the spark of the idea. So really the spark for this was I came across on a lunch break years ago the text of the the radio broadcasts that would have been broadcast by the BBC in the event of a nuclear strike on the UK. They declassified this a few years ago and I read that and just found it absolutely fascinating and I'd always thought the Antarctic would be a perfect place to set a thriller, you know, the the conditions the the

environment the isolation And it just sort of clicked into place that what would it be like if you were listening to that? Devastating radio broadcast while you were already cut off from the rest of humanity And it and it grew from there and that is where your character Rachel finds herself. I've got to say it is a brilliant beginning to an epic novel because we catch her hearing that and I mean I don't think I've felt I've never met the woman she's obviously a fictional character but the sympathy that you have with her right from the start is just off the scale and I think a lot of

people have praised the fact that you have written a sympathetic female lead character when I guess, I don't know, you tell me was your temptation to have, to ever have a male central character? Was it always going to be a woman? It was always going to be a woman and I and really for in some way for reasons I can't explain it just the way the story came to me, she was a woman. I just had this vision of her trapped there in that little hut on her own, in the darkness, in the freezing cold, listening to that radio.

And yeah, she just came to me like that. But I was very aware, there's lots of memes and jokes about men writing women, unflatteringly and inaccurately. So I was very aware of that and I just tried to work as hard as I could to get it as right as I could. I'm not giving anything away, she's a mother in the book. I don't have any children, but my sister does. I spoke to her a lot about that. A lot of the early readers were women who read early drafts. My agent is a woman. That was very important to me, just so I was getting

really good feedback about how I was portraying her. Have you ever been to one of these Antarctic research bases? I never have, no. I know lots of people who have. Living in the Falklands, it's kind of a stop-off point for a lot of Antarctic activity. The British Antarctic Survey have an office here. My brother, in fact, worked for the British Antarctic Survey on one of their survey ships years ago, so he's been to a lot of these places.

But I've still not made it, it's still an ambition of mine to get down there. So not having been, I just had to immerse myself in as much research as I could. I read books, I watched blogs, you know, watched video blogs, I followed people on social media, I just tried to get as much information as I could. Yeah, and what have you learned about the type of individual attracted to that line of work? Well I'd say that in some ways not dissimilar to the type of people who would be attracted to coming out and living and working in the Falklands for example. You've got to be resilient, you've got to be adaptable, you've got to be able to turn your hand to anything

that might crop up. You've got to be, I know they talk about this a lot for astronauts, but really it's very similar in some ways. You've got to be able to get along with people. That's one of the real crucial things. And as evidenced by the story that you mentioned earlier about the the South African base there, the problem being that once you're in one of these bases, once the winter closes in, that's it, you're stuck there. So you've really got to be able to get on

with people and solve problems as they arise because nobody's coming to help you. No, I mean they're really not. I'm not going to give the end away. Rachel battles on though, she believes herself to be entirely alone and actually she's fuelled by these incredibly rich fantasies she has of her home life and particularly her daughter and the pull of motherhood. So I appreciate the work you did with your sister because she obviously really taught you well there. I think that's really impressive. Oh, well, thank you. I'm very glad to hear you say that. I was really, as I said, you know, really wanted to not fall into any of the kind of cliches or the traps that might be there for somebody who's not been through that. So I did try and put a lot of work into that and

got readings and you know went back and changed things and but I think that that's really the you know it's really important a really important part of the book I think you know because as you say that's what's kind of driving her on. Without that would she have had the would she have the mental strength to kind of keep going? So that that was very important. One other thing I just wanted to mention quickly is you very kindly said the opening is is very stark and grabs your attention. And I can't really take any credit for that. Because the very opening of the

book is the the transcript as I I mentioned earlier, of the announcement about a nuclear strike on the UK. And I was very lucky in that I had to ask the BBC whether I could use it and eventually I got permission. So the opening is the genuine transcript that people would have heard had there been a nuclear incident in the Cold War, which I think ends it a little bit of realism. I'll put a spring in everyone's step this afternoon. Thank you for that. Exactly. Yeah. I just wanted to mention that there is a topical, a really topical bent to this book because you slip back in time slightly and we learn about the global situation before Rachel went to the

Antarctic and tariffs feature quite prominently. I mean, were you a mind reader or what? Well, I mean, I'll let you behind, you know, see the magic trick here. So really, what happened there? I now look extremely prescient, as you say, because of some of the stuff about tariffs and a right- wing president doing crazy things. But the truth is, I wrote this, the vast majority of this book, I wrote this during Trump's last term in office before he lost to to Joe Biden. And there were obviously there were things he was doing then, which, which,

which, which helped me on that score. And, I mean, luckily for me, unluckily for the world, it's come back around again. And I know that you weren't in the Falkland Islands when the war was on, when the Argentinians invaded, but I gather that there is there's still a legacy very much around the islands. In fact, there are landmines everywhere, aren't there? Well, you're right, I wasn't here. I was born while the conflict was happening,

but in the UK, my parents had serendipitously gone back to the UK just a few months before the invasion. The landmine, there were a lot of landmines here, thousands of landmines. When I was growing up, there were minefields, quite a lot of minefields around Stanley. Some of the nicest beaches near Stanley were mined. We had regular visits from the military bomb disposal team

would come into school every term and teach us about mines. And if you see, you know, they had example, if you see one of these, this is what to do. So we definitely, you know, grew up with that. A couple of years ago, the minefields were all cleared, which was incredible. And I never thought it would happen. And when I came back three years ago,

I went for a walk with some friends on a beach called York Bay, which is near Stanley. There's a penguin colony there, beautiful white sands. That's actually the beach where a lot of the Argentine troops rolled up for the invasion. And I'd never set foot on that beach because it was mined until three years ago, and walking on that was actually quite a moving experience. I never thought I would get to do it. So, but you're right, the war still echoes today. There are reminders still around about the place. There's still a big military presence here

and Argentina still maintain their claim over the Falklands. So that hasn't changed. Right, really interesting. Thank you so much, Rob. Here's a message for you from a, you'll be pleased with this one, from a listener who says, I don't always have the time to read as much as I'd like. However, listening to this guest, I'm going to go and read this one.

He comes across as genuine, a stand-up guy that goes the extra mile to research and gives credit to the help he's had. And I find that very refreshing. Well, there you are, Rob. There's one book sold. Excellent. Thank you. And Elizabeth Clare has also got one. She's bought it Switzerland so you can see that's two sales so that's brilliant. Made it to Switzerland, that's amazing. You have, honestly I think I've made it clear I enjoyed this. It's white out and Rob writes under the name RJ Burnett and he's brilliant hopefully another one soon Rob? Yes RS Burnett in fact but yes. Oh, sorry, apologies. No, no, that's all right. Yes, another one soon I'm working on at the moment.

In fact, yesterday I came back from a farmhouse way out in the sticks. I've been, I've been secluding myself away, working on the second book, which will be out this time next year. Right. So you seclude yourself even in the Falklands. I would have thought just by being there, you were relatively secluded, but you can get even more secluded. Well, this is a bit of a myth, know I'm Stanley where I live I'm still I have lots of friends here and you you know it's very busy there's always something going on so I kind of have to take myself away

even from here to get a lot of work done. Rob Burnett talking there about his book Whiteout and um and just life in the Falklands I I mean, it's certainly, I vividly remember the Falklands War and it was just a plain fact, I don't know about you, I'd never heard of the Falklands until the war. No, no, me neither. I was astonished to hear that a part of Britain, I'd never, or a part of us, if you like, had been invaded when I didn't know it existed

in the first place. So yeah, it's one of my one of my very distinct memories. Carry on. I was just gonna do two very quick parish notices. We will let you know the exact dates of when we hope to be appearing at Fringe by the Sea, which is a cultural literary and music festival just above Edinburgh this August. We haven't quite nailed down all the details for that for crying out loud. Don't book accommodation and stuff yet. And also we would love to hear suggestions for a book club choice. We're trying to find something that is just funny. It can be from way, way back in the mists of time. It can be recent, just something that hopefully most people listening haven't

already read. But we think that a little bit of light might be necessary in what is quite a dark world. We did get an email suggesting Cold Comfort Farm. Now I have read that but to my shame and I think it's probably just me, I didn't really find it all that funny. I don't want to go back there if that's all right. To Cold Comfort Farm. Yes, I've got a feeling it was on a syllabus somewhere and there's just a little bit of me that's never gonna ever want to return to stuff that was on a syllabus. Well, yes, I certainly won't be re-reading The Mayor of Castorbridge any time soon, but that's not funny. Right, OK, let's bring on the weekend.

Or the art of English, to which every single student known to mankind had added an F. Goodbye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee, thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live and we do do it live every day Monday to Thursday 2 till 4 on Times Radio the jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.