Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Up comes the phallic mast (with Alison Moyet)

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

Jane's back in good dental health but she's not yet back on the apples (to Fi's delight). They cover Smooth Radio at the dentist, Jane's dislike for Toto and the importance of having an Olympics in common. Also, singer and songwriter Alison Moyet discusses her latest album ‘Key’ and her upcoming tour with Jane. Our next book club pick has been announced! 'The Trouble with Goats and Sheep' by Joanna Cannon. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You were cruising around London in the GLR Ford estate with the mast on top. Yes, the mast. You know, chain-smoking fags all the way. You join us in Beige Jumper Studio Number One. Although Eve's got, I'd say it was white, it might be just heading towards off-white. Well it is now, it may have originally started off white. And you're oatmeal. Very much oatmeal.

And I'm kind of cream. Yeah, cream with, can I say, attractive black piping. With some black piping. Wonderful. But it's quite funny because we do look like we look like we've dressed together. We look as though we might be in the spinners, which is one for older listeners. They knew their way around a fisherman's jumper. I think one of us might have to start sending the other just a quick picture of the outfit.

Or we get dressed in the morning. In all honesty, you couldn't call what I'm wearing an outfit. It is an outfit. Well, because if you're going to deny yours as an outfit, you're damning all of us. Yeah, that's true. And even I will be upset. Okay. I did have my boots re-healed yesterday. The wonderful Timsons. Shout out there. Excellent service. Always very prompt.

And it just gives you boots, it just takes them through another season, doesn't it? It certainly does. Yeah, money well spent. And you always just get a lovely, lovely feeling of doing good, don't you, on every single level. Exactly. I think the younger generation is often surprised that you can mend a shoe. Yes.

On those things that's been slightly lost on them. But can I just say, cheap shoes are, they're a, whatchamacallit, they're a fool's game, aren't they? They are, along with polyester jumpers. Exactly if you can buy one decent pair of boots and with the help of places like Timsons you may never need a decent pair of boots again. It's a sound investment. Very very true sister. Now is your tooth back in the right place? Oh yeah oh dear but if anyone's worried about root canal, because it does have this kind of, oh root canal, and I honestly think it used to be really, really painful. I'm

here to tell you, I don't have a particularly strong pain threshold at all. In fact, I probably know myself to be something of a wimp. This is infinitely bearable with the aid of modern technology. And anaesthetic. And anaesthetic. So if you've got that hoving interview, don't worry about it, honestly, don't. That's good. So you're feeling chipper today? Oh yes, I feel fine today. It's almost like it never happened except just for the very

occasional twinge. Thank you for asking. Still on relatively soft foods. Are the apples back? Oh no. Have I got another week off the apples? I think you've got, you've well got a week off apples. got a week off apples. And then I'm off next week anyway. Yeah, but I'll make, if I'm back on Apple Chomping Form, I'll be sure to do it at Cheltenham. Okay. Which is when we'll meet again. Oh, now we've had an email here from Claire who says, I'm due to come

to see you talk with Vera Stanhope at the Cheltenham Book Festival. I've never read her novels or watched Vera, but I am a lover of conversation. So I'm looking forward to it. I'm going on my own, which is making me slightly anxious, but I'm sure I won't be the only one without a plus one in the audience. Right, first of all, Claire, never worry about coming on your own to anything that we're at. So just, it just, the people are always very much high quality, aren't they? Very high quality. And they come in all kinds of groupings. Everyone chats to everybody.

Everyone chats or just slags us off. It doesn't matter, we don't care. You can quite often see when you cast your eye out across the crowd, can't you? There'll be some little heads together nodding and you think, yeah, we're in a bitch. Listen, we'll take them all. We don't care. Claire does go on to say, now I feel stupid because I said the conversation was with Vera when in fact it's with Anne Cleves and Brenda Blethan. This shows I don't know much about the author including her name. None of that matters Claire, as you said you just enjoy conversation and by the way I really hope this gets you started on reading Anne Cleves

because she's written the Vera books but so much other stuff. Shetland, there's some great stuff out there. And I always get his name wrong and I shouldn't but the young detective down in Devon. Matthew, oh Matthew Venn. That's it. And that's he used to be in the Plymouth Brethren and she just finds these incredible niches quite closely linked to the geographical location. And she's just a great writer. So Claire, you're in for a treat.

If you've never read a single book by Anne Cleves, loads of stuff to get stuck into. Hope you enjoy it and looking forward to seeing you hopefully at Cheltenham next week. Shall we just return to Teeth in the 50s for a second? Yeah, I like this. And then we'll move on. It makes you think this, doesn't it?

My dear mother, this comes from Jan. 98 is a legend who still lives in her own home by herself. When she was in her mid-20s she went to the free government dentist for a filling and he informed her that he had to take out all of her top teeth as they were too chalky to fix. She was scared and overwhelmed, not surprised, so agreed because he knew best. And I can see her so clearly, though this was some years before I was born, riding the bus home with only one handkerchief held up against a mouth full of blood. She was crying

with pain and embarrassment. My heart aches for her whenever I think of it. My father was waiting for her at home with her two toddlers and asked why she hadn't at least called a taxi. Because I didn't think of it, she replied. They were working class poor and life in the early 50s was tough, yet they managed to buy a small block of land, build a garage, then live in the garage when they built the house. This was done with two small children and later another, me, on the way, and with my father working shifts as a train driver.

Cut to a few decades later when they could afford to go to a private dentist and mum had her ill-fitted top denture replaced. The dentist asked her to bring in a photo of how she used to look before her teeth were removed. She had always had a small and rather cute gap between her two front teeth so he made her a plate that replicated that. She finally felt like herself again but I know that she still remembers that awful day and it always symbolises for me what a resilient and absolutely wonderful woman she is and how lucky I am to still have her in my life. God, blimey bloody hell Jan. What a slice of life and thank you for it Jan and our best wishes to your mum as well who at

98 and still living on her own and after as you described there not the easiest start in life how fantastic what what a trajectory she has been on if that makes any sense. Totally but can we just and not dwell on it too much because I know it's a bit giggle but you know to get on the bus having had all of your teeth root in one day presumably without very much anaesthetic and all of that type of stuff you just think wow wow, wow, okay. And dare I say it, Jane, I don't think, were men having all of their teeth removed in their early 20s before they got married? I don't think so. Jan's mom's experience was in that time when we did respect, well we had no choice but to respect men in white coats who told us what was best for us because that's what you did. And so I don't blame the poor woman at all for going along with it. What else is she going to do?

But there is just something so poignant Jan, as Fee said, about coming back on the bus. coming back on the bus. Anyway, she's going strong at 98 and I love the detail of the wonderful dentist later in her life providing her with an appropriate slightly gap-toothed set of dentures. So she was back to her real self, that's just fantastic. For you, you were mentioning last week the whole business of TVs in dentist surgeries and Claire says you're pondering on the viability of TV viewing from the dentist chairs reminded me of my own recent medical experience summoned for a hysteroscopy earlier this year and that's no laughing matter on the whole. I entered the room in trepidation up in the stirrups in my lucky socks the audience comprised of the consultant plus two nurses two trainees and a

smiling Alexander Armstrong. Yep there was a TV on the wall playing Pointless. There we go. Yes, Alexander would have got slightly more than he bargained for there. I do remember that hysteroscopies, they're quite invasive procedures. I mean, they're very necessary and important and you certainly shouldn't ignore having one if you're told you need one. They used to do them without anaesthetic and there were a lot of women were in extreme discomfort but I think they now routinely do make sure you get an anaesthetic so certainly that sounds as though that was

your experience Claire and you got a telly to boot as well. What is it about dentists and smooth FM? That's what they play. So I had to put my earbuds in yesterday during the procedure because I couldn't listen to smooth FM for an hour. Can you not? No, I'm sorry. No. Because there's always the very real danger that they might play Toto in Africa. I know you hate that song. I just can't. But also I think you're a reformed foreigner lover because no, having dissed it on the podcast when we were trying to compile a driving compilation CD on the live radio

program because CD players aren't put in cars anymore so we were trying to do our own kind of road trip CD you did confess that you had in your youth like to put on a big old banger from foreigner, wind down the windows and cruise off on a Sunday evening? Well no, it'd be more, especially in local radio days when I had, you know the special monogram car? Did you drive that? Oh most certainly.

And going off to an important meeting of a WI in a relatively obscure part of Herefordshire, wonderful. You could stick your elbow out, drive down the, I should know the name of the A Road between Worcester and Hereford, blast out the music. And did lots of people tutor you along the way? No. Oh, okay.

Well, only probably complaining about my driving. But honestly, I thought I've never, I don't think I've ever been happier apart from some obvious examples, than when driving a station branded vehicle. I used to be terrified of it, mainly because I just thought it would, it just means that you were more easily identified. Well there was that. As a terrible driver and obviously ours were all no smoking vehicles and we all smoked. We were cruising around London in the GLR Ford older state, with the mast on top, you know, chain-smoking fags all the way.

I cannot think of anything more trepidatious than driving around London in one of those. I mean, I find navigating London or just driving around London a colossal responsibility even now in a mini. Just think about it, we used to put up the radio masts. I can't imagine. So for the uninitiated, these were in the days before you had Wi-Fi connectivity and stuff, so in order to send stuff back to the station, there was a car that had a radio mast on it that went up about 40 foot and so you'd have one hour's training on how to put this thing up. And also what did you

watch that terrible film? Yes, the safety film. Yes, because somebody had died. Yes, because they'd put the mast up underneath the pylon and the electricity wires obviously had done their thing. That was the same course where they show the terrifying film of Anthea turn on fire. There's no laughing matter. No, she got out of that absolutely fine. But it was shown to remind you to just, I don't know, never get in a car without the Aeternon.

I can't remember what the point of that particular safety bit was. But the radio mast was just a thing of terror, Jane, absolute terror. Because if you had a little bit of adverse camber on your parking, No you were dumb for! and the mast started going up, you could see it's kind of like, well what point is that all going to tip over? And God almighty did it draw your attention to yourself. Hello, here I am, up comes the phallic mast! So thank God those days are over.

The Austin Montego Estate, that's what I drove with a mast, and once famously crashed it into the garage at the radio station. They laugh about it now, Fee. I think they do anyway. The damage was repaired. Now we did mention Philip Schofield and his TV comeback yesterday, didn't we? I didn't see it, I must admit. Will I watch it? No. But we have had some emails about it. This one comes from Fran. How glad I was to hear you talk so honestly and openly about this. The groomed victim had been gagged and tossed aside. I will have no desire to watch him again, not that I was a fan before.

So we can say all of that because it is actually public knowledge that Philip Schofield made a payment to the young man in question. Both of them have signed NDAs, so we won't be hearing very much more about it. Fran goes on to say, portraying himself as a victim in this, the poor family colluding with the grossness of it all madness. So they understand and don't mind, well good for them, I don't. As I get older I only want truth and beauty in my life, no more room for liars and cheats and those that exploit others for their satisfaction. Do you know what the sentence that really stayed with me in that fran is as I get older,

I only want truth and beauty in my life because I completely agree with that sentiment and sometimes I feel quite hard, a harder person now in my old age towards people who I think when I was younger I might have given a little bit more leeway to and then I think oh gosh am I atrophying into a rather unpleasant kind of person. But you said it so wonderfully there, it actually just is about honesty, not really wanting to put up with messy bits from people. Well, I mean, if you're our age, the plain fact, the truth is that so many of the showbiz

stalwarts of our childhood and adolescence have been revealed to be monsters. Yep. I mean, to a greater or lesser extent. Yep. So you can't really blame us for being more than cynical about the whole sort of eyes and teeth of showbiz. I think we have every right to question it and we have every right to expect a decent level of conduct from everybody who seeks to entertain us. Yes, I would agree. Can we agree on that?

God, I sounded pompous there. But have you got one, a nice one there, because then we've got a very interesting one. We have, and this is from Fiona who says, I for one would never watch a programme about a person who had abused their position of power. He's such a narcissist, it wouldn't even occur to him to think of the poor victim in all this as he perceives himself as the victim. I think Channel 5 have just given him a platform to return to TV and I wish more people in the public eye took your stance.

Well I think a lot of people do actually, I don't think we're outliers in just feeling a little bit about all this. But I guess he was a very powerful figure in the media, it wouldn't have any impact on us because we were never going to come into his area were we? But he certainly wasn't someone that would have any power over what we said or thought, but so I don't think we're being brave in taking this stance. I think it's just how we feel.

Just being completely honest. This is from another listener who says, I'm writing anonymously for reasons which will become apparent. I was interested in your view that Scofield should, forgive my paraphrasing, read the room and just go away. I'm someone who's been through something similar to him. In my case, an incident in the workplace

got blown out of all proportion. I had to, quotes, resign. And then a bunch of former colleagues all decided to tell their own stories about me, most of which were completely out of context or just lies. All of this got played out in the media and on social media. I couldn't speak up because of legal restrictions, but everybody else got their two cents worth in, including my former employer, while I hid in my house and teetered on the edge of suicide. Years later I'm still fighting to get the truth out there about what really went on.

There were so many agendas at play and so much going on behind the scenes which nobody ever heard about. All people did hear was about how apparently awful I was. There are a lot of people saying I should read the room and just go away too, but why should I? I lost my job, my career and my house. My life and that of my family has been destroyed by people who were happy, as I suspect is true in Schofield's case, to ride on my coattails for years." So there is always somebody listening, and we never know who is listening, who has been through something of that nature and has been, I think, more than stung by what happened to them. Now, we don't know any more of that listeners experience than what they've chosen to tell us there.

We don't know who you are. And we, so we have no way of knowing whether you are telling us, well, you're giving us your version of the truth, but we've got no idea what really went on. But I do get that life's been exceptionally tough for you and that you feel that other people have

Dobbed you in in more ways than one It's a really tricky area. This isn't it? Well, it is and and we can't really have Enough of a conversation about that case because we don't know enough of the detail, but I suppose and I suppose the difference may well be something about age, because I think for a lot of people it was just very shocking that Philip Schofield had known somebody who was so young and then helped them get a job and then things had developed in a workplace environment. So I don't know whether this gentleman, it might even be a woman who's written to us, had a similar thing with a very, very young person.

But you know, my maternal instinct is involved in the Philip Schofield story, I'm afraid. And were that to have been one of my young adult children, I would have a view on it that would not be swayed, unfortunately, by whatever had happened to the older person. So I think what we were trying to talk about yesterday just was that imbalance of power because of the age, because you and I would be very hypocritical to say it's just about people having relationships at work. I don't know what you mean. No, of course, of course.

It's not that. But we're not, I think when we are hypocritical, I think we own it in fairness to us and we're certainly not perfect and neither of us pretend to be. We've even apologized over the years. Many times. It's quite extraordinary. But no, you're right. I wouldn't want my adult children to be in the workplace with predatory men or women, frankly, taking advantage of their relative youth and inexperience. I wouldn't have it. It's not on. No. I mean, I'm going to be very honest about this. I think I would struggle further down the line. My kids are still a bit younger than yours, but I think I would genuinely struggle if they started a relationship with somebody more than twice their age. I just would think what have you

got in common and there's that fantastic... Have you ever been to see The Vape Lord? He used to do a comedy set as The Vape Lord. He is Jamil Maddox. He's very very funny. He does a really superb part of his routine about age differences and relationships and he always says If you can't share anecdotes about the same Olympic Games, then you really shouldn't be together So, you know if your first Olympic Games one that I remember I think is 1976 You see I'm 72 and that's why we can never be in a relationship But you know if if I were to start a relationship with

somebody who could first remember the 2012 London Games, no but you know what I mean, and I think I just find that, I will always find that difficult actually and I know we've talked about this before, I know some people have had fantastic relationships with people who are you you know, 40 years older than them. But just as a mum, I feel that kind of youth and age. I don't know. It would just be weird. Proper weird. Where I have sympathy with our correspondent there is that whole business of people being happy to ride on the coattails of people who are successful. Yeah, that's very true. There is no doubt that if you're Mr Big or Miss Big in the showbiz world in particular, and by the way probably in other worlds as well, you'll have many people who are very much your

mate until they're not. And that may very well be because you're no longer Flavour of the Month, or you've done something terrible that they don't want to be associated with, and then you discover who your true friends are. As by the way, when crisis hits you in whatever form it will come your way, because it will eventually, that's when you also find out who your real mates are. Those people who will turn up at the drop of a hat and listen to you banging on for three or four hours about the same subject. They're the people you need in your life. But in the business of show, you know, friendships are, they're not always as genuine as they might seem. I've said it. No? Eve, I'm off.

Don't mean I am off. I don't mean us! Debbie, we've sent her a tote bag for her wonderful crochet work and by the way, neither of us were criticizing her color palette, Debbie. She sent back a whole range of beautiful stuff that she has made. I'm looking forward to filling my tote bag much wanted with my crochet and knitting project, she says. After listening to Thursday's podcast though, I had a crisis of confidence in my color choices due to your lighthearted criticism of my palette.

I've attached a photo of one of the finished items and a few other projects to see if the colour selection is more to your liking. I do agree. The purple, green, red, beige combo is a bit strange. I was just using up odds and ends of yarn to practice new granny squares. Oh, I really like that colour combo. Actually it looks amazing, it really does and there's a most beautiful cardigan that Debbie's made for a baby granddaughter which just look at that beautiful autumnal russet and beige and a little hint of red there and some darker browns absolutely gorgeous. I'm such a big I'm not able to do any of this stuff myself but I'm a huge admirer of those people who can do it I just think it's incredible. I always feel rather sad when I see beautiful items like that in the local charity shops because you think gosh someone's put so many hours into that and when my two were tiny

and you know we were using clothes like that, wearing clothes like that, I always felt a bit reticent about buying them because it was almost like they were kind of being wrapped up in somebody else's love. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but that's rather nice. That could be the title of a poem. Somebody else's love. No, wrapped in somebody else's love. But do you feel the same way about buying books that have a personal inscription in them in second-hand bookshops? Yes, that can be rather sad, can't it? Yeah. Yeah. So I've still got the books that I got at primary school as prizes,

and I'm not parting with them because they've got the crest in and, you know, the thing I won it for. Oh, no, you should always keep those. I wouldn't want anyone to get their stinky old mitts on that. No. But you know, when you open a book and it says, you know, to Gertrude in memory of, or, you know, happy birthday. It's my grandmother's name, Gertrude.

Is it? Okay. And I always feel it slightly changes my read of the book. Yeah? Ever so slightly. I can see that because it's had another life. Yes. And it was given to somebody for a very specific purpose. It's an odd one. Do you have a book of Common Prayer at home? Do you know what? I don't have any prayer books or Bibles. I think I've kept...

I think I do have my school hymn book. I've got my school hymn book, yeah. Which I don't think you're supposed to take, but I have taken it. Oh, okay. They'll be in touch. Such a maverick. Now, this one comes from Helen who says, I'm smiling listening to you talking on your podcast about cutting pieces out of a newspaper.

Now we've got quite a few of these. I didn't realise it was such a common practice. I'm of a similar vintage. It reminded me of my early days in the late 1980s working for the research arm of a pre-privatised electricity industry, the CEGB, the Central Electricity Generating Board. Our department had a typist, the lovely Barbara, favourite name in the world, and we presented her with our reports to type up. When the boss edited these, we had to make the amendments by literally cutting the paper

up and pasting it back together with sellotape to create a new version for Barbara to type again. Our times have changed. We didn't have computers then. Now cut and paste to just a mouse click away. And Helen says, my husband and I listened to you in the morning in that lovely calm period after letting our dog out into the garden at 6am and properly getting up at 7.30. Well that's good. So we feel a kind of, I didn't know this time existed actually.

No, that's a long poo. That's an hour and a half. What are you and your husband doing for that hour and a half Helen? Just godgetating are you? An hour and a half while old Rover gets out there. They are having calm time. A calm time, okay. Well, I do love that whole cutting and pasting thing.

I mean, as Helen says, cut and paste, just a mouse click away. Not for all of us. thing. I mean as Helen says, cut and paste, just a mouse click away. Not for all of us. I still have to seek a junior assistant. It goes down so badly at home. Anyway, we don't care when you listen but I would like to know more about maybe the time that people spend. Because this is, I'm with Helen in the sense I think it's rather beautiful even at this time of year getting up before seven and just having that first cup of tea and just getting to grips with the day and its possibilities. I rather like that. As the world is waking up around you.

Yes, yeah. Now this is from Marie who is one of our favorite listeners. Often quite rude. Quite rude, we don't mind. By the way, Glyn, your Tufty badge that I took home and it's now on my mantelpiece in my bedroom. Oh, that's lovely. Thank you. Much loved. Marie, you just wanted to say how much I've enjoyed your stories from local newspapers.

I've deliberated about sending this bizarre story. I was in the North Norfolk News a few years ago. It's just so unbelievable. Anyway, here goes. Right, now steady yourselves. The incident took place in an antique centre in the Georgian market town of Holt, and the gist of the story was this. A woman was caught on CCTV camera defecating into a Moses basket. She then proceeded to clean herself with a Victorian christening robe. It's believed the woman wasn't local. I mean that's the line isn't it?

She was just passing through. Maybe she was some suffocating. She thought to hell with it. Oh dear me. Shall we bring in our guest today? Yes I think we should. Yes, because we're running out of studio time. We could just sit here for hours, but apparently other people need to use the facilities.

We don't know who, we don't know why. And our guest today is such a good singer. She's been around really as long, and I don't mean this in any way, unpleasantly, almost as long as I have been a fan of contemporary music. It's Alison Moyer. Oh, and should we answer the question about why we don't interview people together? Because we did have an email about this, didn't we? We did. We thought it was a bit of a boring subject, but then we thought we'd just be honest with you and talk about it. So let's just do some

admin information. Over to my colleague. It was an inquiry from Karen who said that she had been going through our back catalogue to help her sleep. And as an example, she happened upon an interview that we both did with Leanne Moriarty when she was in promoting Apple's Never Fall the Book. And then Karen went on to listen to the latest interview and it was just Jane doing that. So Karen has asked the question and it's a Jane doing that. So Karen has asked the question. And it's a combination of things. One is a really, really, really dull technical thing. Brace yourselves.

That sometimes when we're doing interviews down the line means that Jane and I have to sit with our heads touching. That's very bad. It can spread lice and all kinds of things in order to simply fit on the same screen. So that just felt a bit daft and we felt it was a bit intimidating for the one person who's at the other end of the line to have these two people kind of squashed together. So we stopped doing together interviews on that piece of kit.

And it's also just a timing thing sometimes when we are so busy preparing for the live show. So, so busy preparing for the live show, so so busy. It's just much easier for one of us to pop out and do the interview. So sometimes you will still hear both of us doing an interview if the guest has come in live on the show but even then it's one person who leads it and the other one just bobs in. And also it's about the sheer workload of reading the books. Yeah because we actually don't really want to do interviews about a book when we haven't read the book. So it just makes more sense for one of us to

have properly read the book because we both love reading but there is a limit to just how much reading can do. Yeah I mean we couldn't do four books a week so sometimes it's that. Only if I neglected the housework. Oh darling well you can't do that. No it just doesn't bear thinking about it. You don't want to turn into a slut. How much longer have I got when realistically I could turn into a slut? Stay tuned, let's bring in our guest today, Alison Moyer. Much-loved singer-songwriter, she brought us the likes of All Cried Out, Is This Love, Love Resurrection.

She has a new album out this week, it's called Key, and this is a collection of 16 reworked singles and it celebrates 40 years of her very successful solo career. When you're looking at a catalogue that spans 40 years as a solo artist, obviously you're going to be dealing in that time with very different sounds and different producers and different lineups. And were you to present a body of work in the way that was originally created, you'd end up with this hideous karaoke. It would be so schismatic and unpleasant. And also for me, I think for anybody, your aesthetic changes as you get older, your language changes. So all the big hits are here, I should say. So people are going to get Love Resurrection and All Cried Out and Is This Love? But also...

Well, actually not all the hits there, you know, I like to make it very clear. I don't do Weakening the Presence of Beauty or Invisible Life, I haven't done Invisible for about 35 years for that reason of talking about finding a language that I can relate to. And also, it's a great moment of relief and release to sing songs that no one kind of has to struggle with, no one needs to struggle with it, they can just be in the place that they want to be with them, you know. And I enjoy that. I'm not unlike anybody else, you know. When there's something that kind of sits in there with your muscle memory or whatever, it's a good feeling. And it is like community song, you know. It's like church or, you know,

these things that we all share together. That's a really nice thing. How long have you gone in your life without performing live or has it always been a big part of what you do? Oh no, there have been big periods where I haven't and that's so often because promoters feel safer about putting you on when they've got an album alongside it to help advertise the fact that you're working live. And then there've been other occasions when I've been between albums or focusing on other things. I mean, the last time I did a tour proper, I think was,

I mean, a tour proper of my own was like seven years ago. And that obviously was affected by lockdown. And also the fact that I went to university I decided to go to university and did a degree in that time and so as someone who hyper focuses my my mind was elsewhere. Yeah so you went to university what in your in your 50s? No in my 60s. In your 60s? Well actually lately, lately, you know, from about, well, I graduated in July, last July. Not this July just gone, but the July before, so I graduated when I was 62. Right, well, congratulations for a start. Why didn't you go in your teens?

Well, I left school at 16. I had no qualifications to go to college. I mean, I don't have, I think I have one bad O level in French. And bearing in mind I was bilingual at two, that's nothing to shout about. So yeah, I didn't do well at school, but it was something that I had always intended to do at some point. It was always a bit of a chip on my shoulder. And I expected doing music that the career would end any year as so many music careers do. And then every year, it maintained and it continued and it held my interest. And so it wasn't really until lockdown

when we weren't in a position to tour or to be sitting in studios with other people that it seemed like the right time to do it. So you went to uni and how did your fellow students treat you? Well, you know, it was really interesting because, you know, obviously I'm a, you know, I was the old lady of the class and I'm in a cohort of people around, you know, from 22. I mean, there are a couple, I think there are a couple in their 30s, maybe one even at 40. But in the way

that you'd expect, you know, young people when they go to university, they want to meet and to socialize and they, you know, they're lovely, they're lovely. So they're all warm and friendly and I was there to really get my head down. So and I had no desire to you know, this wasn't about me pretending to be a youth or anything anymore. So, you know, we engaged together in our class and our lessons and they didn't know who I was, you know, I went in with my married name and the name that I was christened, which is not Alison, and is on my documents and my passport and stuff like that. So there was no indication that I was anything other than a mature student. Right, okay. And did it live up to your expectations of what doing a degree would be?

up to your expectations of what doing a degree would be? In some ways it did and in some ways it didn't. I really liked the challenge of it and the challenge for me was to stay focused, something that I had to commit to regularly day on day out. I'd never written an essay, which I discovered I absolutely despised. I hated writing essays. And I thought it was going to be like, I thought, oh yeah, that'd be all right. I've been writing for the whole of my career. And then you realize how different is to kind of write prose or poetry or nursery rhymes than it is to writing essays. I'm also fiercely disorganized. And so getting my head around citations, like, you know, I could read,

I'd go off down rabbit holes and then forget where I'd seen something and then have to spend as much time trying to find the bits that I was writing about to do citations. So I've found that incredibly stressful. But it also taught me a lot of things that were really useful. I'm quite a Luddite, even though I've worked with Electronica and people that work in that. And I've had great examples around me all the time of how to use this

technology. I've never been someone that can stay in a room for long. My mind is always elsewhere and it requires a focus that I just didn't have. And it was easy for me to walk away from it. When you're a college, having to work with... Because I was doing printmaking and so was working with other kinds of platforms and technologies, I had to. I couldn't run away with it. So actually I ended up with a language that I hadn't picked up before that I was then afterwards able to translate into logic and music programs, which was actually really useful. It sounds amazing and a really positive experience for you, but if you had advice for someone of the time of the age that

you were when you kicked all this off someone who perhaps like you felt they missed out when they were younger through no fault of their own just where life took them what would you say? Well I think it very much depends on what it is that you want to learn about and to what ends you You know, for me, I had always wanted to do art. You know, it was the one area, you know, and I wasn't like I say, I wasn't qualified to go to art school, but it was one area that I was interested in solely

because it was a field that where my mind became still. In anything else, I am spinning, spinning all the time, you know, that I'm in my head too much. There was also another angle, the fact that I was doing printmaking was that I came from a long line. I come from a very patriarchal family and a long line of men in my family that did printing. And I thought when I left school, that that's kind of what I'd like to do. I'd like to get, have a printing apprenticeship. My dad is like this Frenchman, he talk like

this, you know, no, you know, clothes shop, no Allah, you know, close shop, no women. You know, so this, and that would have, you know, that would have really kind of like, kind of stuck in my crore. And so that, you know, it was something that I was determined to do. But yeah, I think it's down to what you're going to study. I, the course at Brighton, which is where I went,

cause it's my local university for printmaking, that was a really significant place to go to because they had such great equipment. And there is heavy machinery that you need that you can't easily replicate at home. Very much recommend that. At the same time, there's still a big part of me that thinks that this kind of ubiquitous

enthusiasm for universities has not on the whole been, not in every way been a positive place. I think that, I mean, one of the first courses I did when I was younger, just before it kicked off with Yazoo, is I was at the London College of Furniture doing a City and Guilds in piano restoration and tuning, you know. So it was much more about hands-on, much more about the physical learning than an academic learning. And sometimes I feel that the academic stuff is superfluous. It's like no one, no one needs to read one of my essays. You know what I mean? It's like, and probably no one does. So just, it feels superfluous.

You know, there are writers for a reason because that is, they have the talents and they have the wherewithal to pull this information together and to put it down in such a way that engages people, you know. And so I think university for everything is a nonsense. I think we should get back to top quality apprenticeships and to arteliers for art. You know, people learn in different ways. And I am someone that learns by doing, not by, not by, I'm not interested in just constant stories about what other people do.

Well we should say you've got a first class degree, which is amazing and clearly richly deserved, but you, I mean people listening to you will be thinking, wow this woman has a quite extraordinary skill set. You mentioned that the furniture stuff that you were doing when you were much younger, now you've got a first class degree, you've had an amazing career in music, you write songs, you've got a great voice. Do you occasionally just allow yourself just a quick pat on the back and think, you know what, Alison, that's not bad. Well, you know, that's lovely of you to say.

No, it's because because my thrill is engaging. I mean, yeah, I did get a first-class degree, but it nigh on killed me because I was so aware of, I'm so aware of the time that I've wasted in kind of my midlife, you know, it's like, it's remarkable that in my 50s and 60s, I'm so much more engaged than I ever was in my 20s and my 30s, you know, it's like you become aware of the value

of time and more than that, the joy you have and I'm that you have in making it's like one of the my big thrills at the moment, I've got really heavy into DIY. So it's like I love fixing things. I love working with my hands. I would quite have liked being a manual worker, I believe. Tell us about your last really successful bit of DIY. Go on. My daughter went on holiday with her child and her husband and she not long moved into a house and there was kind of some serious problems going on

with damp and the patio doors were all rotting and it was kind of coming through to the skirt. And so when they went as a surprise, I went in for the two weeks they were away into the house to fix it up. And that ended up me kind of doing up their kitchen because it's like, I'll see one thing and I'll see the next thing.

I'm putting out scurrying and I'm filling in the gaps in the walls and I've painted everything kind of like fix the door and refix pieces of wood. It was the way that I was brought up, my dad, I come from a half of my family is French and they were very much a peasant family. And I use that word advisedly because that's how my dad would refer to himself.

But it was always about fixing. It was always about fixing and making. And those were the things that they valued. And those are the things that I find dreamy about other people, other people. I remember my dad even as a successful pop star, him saying to me that I rewired the Hoover and he loved that. You could have bought a new Hoover but you fixed it, that's brilliant. And those were the things that they showed pride in. So it was nice that I sang, it's like, yeah well done you sang,

but isn't it brilliant that you fixed that? And he'd be really proud if he saw me really scrubbing a pan within an inch of his life. It's that kind of stuff. So those are the things I admire and those are the things I admire in other people. Okay, it's a real glimpse inside what sounds like a pretty remarkable soul I have to say. But can we just end with you telling us about the song you most like to perform? Oh, that can change on the day. You know, I think one of the hardest things about this key album, and I'm sorry because I know I'm going a little bit off-bent there, it depends on my mood.

You know, it depends on how I'm feeling and that can change day to day and from how I respond to the audience and where my head's at. Like I say, without wanting to be a pounce, it's a very authentic experience for me and so yeah, I don't have one favourite. All I do know is I don't perform any live songs that I don't want to. Okay. As a fact, I have one hit in America and I won't perform it, which pisses everyone off. Which one is that? Well, I say hit, you know, same hit. It was charted. Invisible.

Invisible, yeah. That's the one song the Americans know for me and I won't perform. You just do not like that song? I admire it. I really admire it. It's a great song and I'm really happy that it matters to anybody. It's just I don't relate to it. It uses a language that I don't use and it has a sentiment that I don't adhere to. It's that kind of feeling, being desperate over a man and I'm so not romantic, I'm very much, he's been an asshole, kick him in his touch, you know.

I've got past those young years where I celebrate desperation. Alison Moyer, who's on tour and you can find out all the details by going to a popular search engine. But Alison, she is somebody who really has bestowed the contemporary music scene for quite some time, had a huge impact. And she's just got so many die-hard fans who just love what she does. And she has got an amazing set of pipes. Yeah. So just that opening, the looking from a window above, gets me every time. Looking from a window above, there's a story above. me every time. And also I really loved her when I was growing up, Jane, because she didn't conform to the very, very kind of strict body image that seemed to define quite a lot of

the pop world at the time. And I loved her for that. Absolutely loved her for that. I agree. And what was also, you know, we've definitely mentioned Banana Rama before, they just used to lull up around in their dungarees. They did. And backcombed hair and having a laugh, you know, Doc Martens and I want more of that because that was actually very healthy. Oh, but it's back Jane. Is it? Yeah, the last dinner party.

Have you come across them? All girl band. Absolutely fantastic. Do they wear Doc Martens? Oh, and then some and some of their lyrics as well. They're so rude, it's delicious. You should seek them out actually. I think you would enjoy their audio company.

Tiny Farewell comes from Malcolm Howlett who's explained something to us. Go on, Jane. And often it's a man who does. The reason I was told that male bikes still have a diamond shape frame that can catch all the unmentionables is that the diamond shape is stronger than the step through used for female bikes. Cheers says Malcolm. Thank you Malcolm. I wonder if Malcolm like us has been incommoded by the sudden absence of lids on pods of hummus and not just hummus,

it's... Yoghurt as well. Whipped feta. And it's incredibly annoying and it's something that is causing the British middle classes an enormous amount of angst. I don't know if the rest of the world is impacted by this yet. Well, let's talk about that because there's been a serious report about bacteria and I'd just like to throw into the mix as well. How can you call dental floss whitening? How can a little strip of cotton... I didn't know they did. Yeah. They brand it as whitening. It's not... it's not... Oh help us out. Jane and Fee at the Times. Radio. The world is going to the dogs and you're spending your time listening to us, wittering on. But hey, if it helps us, it might help you, who knows.

We love hearing from you. Thank you very much for being a part of whatever this is. Keep listening. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB

or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler. Music