Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Watching Strictly via Wollongong (with Jack Mosley)

Episode Date: July 3, 2025

In Jane and Fi's last episode together for two weeks, they bounce from the Cotswolds to Wollongong to Crete. They also peruse Fi's last six Google searches and ponder estate agent jargon. Please note: this episode also comes with an accent warning—proceed with caution! Plus, Dr. Jack Mosley, son of the late Michael Mosley, discusses his book Food Noise: How Weight Loss Medications & Smart Nutrition Can Silence Your Cravings.If you want to come and see us at Fringe by the Sea, you can buy tickets here: www.fringebythesea.com/fi-jane-and-judy-murray/And if you fancy sending us a postcard, the address is:Jane and FiTimes Radio, News UK1 London Bridge StreetLondonSE1 9GFIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] next book club pick has been announced! We’ll be reading Leonard and Hungry Paul by Rónán Hession.Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

She's come to Britain to live because she doesn't like what's going on over there. Yeah, she's only got 12. Yes, and so that's public. I mean, in a way, that's more than we strictly speaking need to know, isn't it? You could just drive somewhere north of Bambury and shout, go on! I'm Will Kelleher. Join me and Alex Lowe for the Red Lions, a special three-part series on the history of the British and Irish Lions from 1950 to this year's Tour of Australia. With first-hand accounts from the players themselves, it tracks the rancor and revival of rugby's greatest touring team, the Red Lions. Memories, music,

match reports and more, available wherever you download the Ruck Rugby podcast from the Times. This episode of Off Air is brought to you by Washington DC. The city? Yep, the one and only. Washington DC is the city for sightseeing, museum going and even outdoor adventures. It has got a variety of nightlife, dining, art and theatre with over a hundred free things to do. Why not take advantage of the city's green spaces like biking through America's oldest national park, Rock Creek Park. Or you could see a show in a living presidential memorial.

Or try out your sea legs and go kayaking around the wharf. The list goes on and on. There's only one place you can do all of these things. There's only one DC. And this month in a special episode of the podcast, we're chatting to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution, Lonnie G. Bunch, who looks after 17 museums in the city. Sounds like it's time to plan your DC getaway.

Book your trip to DC by visiting dialaflight.com forward slash WDC. Are we ready, Eve? OK. She's back on form, She's back on form. She's back in control of us, which is definitely an art form. We've had quite a torrid and horrid time over the last 24 hours in British politics, Jane, haven't we? And note that you've got the email that I've got at the top of your pile too. From Michelle. Why don't you read it.

So Michelle says I was listening to PMQ in the background before I read about the tears and saw the photos. Now this is our Chancellor Rachel Reeves who was sitting on the front bench during Prime Minister's questions looking visibly distressed and then shed a couple of tears as well during the Prime Minister's defence of the vote that squished through our House of Commons with regard to welfare reform. I'm doing all of this for the benefit of our foreign listeners. But the key point to take from it for people who don't know much about the welfare reform bill in this country is that Rachel Reeves, our Chancellor, has had a really, really difficult time because she wanted to and is at the helm of labour reform

that would have taken apart, dismantled some of the benefits system and the backbenches revolted, some quite near the front bench revolted and said you've really got to water down this bill, it's going to harm people. So she's had that on her plate but yesterday was extraordinary because we saw a woman so distressed at work and obviously that's the image that has been drowned the world back with you Michelle I saw the photos but even then Kemi Badenok leader of the opposition the conservative party's comment about looking miserable felt jarring and unnecessarily personal. Having seen the footage now, I am appalled.

I don't think that Stammer could have seen Rachel Reeves' distress, but the people opposite, certainly Kemi, did. Why is nobody pointing out how cruel this was? I'm only reading in the press about Rachel Reeves and her failings. Why the silence about the nastiness? I can't imagine ever behaving like this to a person in distress but it's not getting a mention, is it me? Well Michelle, it's not just you and actually Jane and I had exactly this conversation during the programme yesterday when it went out. I personally think that there was something

extraordinary about Kemmy Badenock seeming to really fill her boots with the distress that was going on on the benches opposite her and this is a woman who's really come under fire for not being particularly good at PMQs in the past but she certainly managed to rise to the occasion yesterday and I thought too it was unedifying actually. I know there's a performative element to politics and certainly there is to PMQs but you're also witnessing people as human beings so I wasn't sure about it at all but I hand you over to my colleague who had a slightly different perspective so it's always worth

hearing everybody's. Yeah it's difficult this isn't it? First of all today we learn that Sir Keir Starmer who was sitting right next to Rachel Reeves he says he had no idea that she was upset because he's been on Defyre as well for not comforting her which he didn't I mean he didn't. Well nobody gave her a gentle squeeze or even looked in her direction to give her a nod. I've never I have been in that chamber I've never sat on the benches or anything so I would imagine if you are you only have a view of someone's facial expressions if you are sitting right opposite them.

You have a better view. Yeah but you certainly don't notice what the person next to you is doing do you so I would say to Angela Rayner for example who was sitting on the other side of Sir Keir Starmer and Keir Starmer they couldn't really have seen her facial expression. So even so, basically she visibly wilted even more, she was already upset when the Prime Minister couldn't say that she'd stay in her job. He's not very good at, I mean, let's just end the sentence there. The Prime Minister is not very good. I mean, people have always said he's not very good at politics. And sometimes I don't think he's terribly nimble in situations like that. But in fairness to the

man, he couldn't see her face. A chemi-betanoch, I mean, you know, she's doing her job, isn't she? It's really, it's a nasty old business. I thought she chose a strange adjective to describe Rachel Reeve's countenance. Miserable can't have been, it wasn't right, but perhaps she actually saw the reality of her being upset and thought well I can't say that because that would be too much so I'll opt for miserable which is heading in the right direction but not strictly accurate. That's, it's a bit bizarre but look I mean you've got to think on your feet in those situations as a politician. Yes.

And I don't think Sakia Starm is terribly good at it. I'm not sure Kamya Betanoff is really good at it either. Did she have any option yesterday? Because she called the Chancellor a human shield for the Prime Minister, which I think a lot of people feel. That Sakia's made some cock-ups and that she is carrying the can. So, I mean, that's a point I think a lot of people would have made. But it's just nasty. It's all nasty. Politics is nasty. But I didn't like the fact that she just seemed to be very good on... Kemi Badenok seemed to be very good on her feet yesterday, where she hasn't been very good on her feet in previous PMQs,

where she is there to present a political challenge to the leader of the government. And I'm with you, Michelle. I actually, I think something went down yesterday that we all need to let it settle a little bit. Interestingly though, a male leader of the opposition, let's say it had been Robert Jenrick who was the other contender. Could he actually have mentioned Rachel Reeves' appearance? Yes, why not? Because I think it would have been even crueler and harsher from a man. That's interesting

isn't it? You see I don't know what Robert Jenrick would have done. I think it would depend on the man, but I'm not sure that gender is the first point of kind of contact in all of this. I sort of think it is. I think it might have been even harder for a male leader of the opposition to go for Rachel Reeves or reference her and they may not have done it at all. So I don't think it's a very very complicated area this. We don't know why she was upset. Some people say it's something to do with politics. Other people say no. People are saying it's personal. We all have personal problems. We've all cried

at work. It's shit. I mean, certainly I was made to cry by a boss at another employer some years ago. God, it was brutal. It was really brutal. And I wasn't in a happy place in my personal life at the time. And she did. It's almost like she saw the opportunity and went for it. Oh, I've just outed the gender there but you know sometimes people people are unpleasant to you at work and I guess you do have to woman up and skedaddle along with it don't you? Why was she being unpleasant? She was she just perfectly at liberty to criticize my performance which is what she did it wasn't there was nobody else there I

should say, it was just the two of us in a room. It was just at the wrong time. Rachel Rees. Yeah and so you know I don't cry very easily at all, I mean I almost never cry and actually I, weirdly I find now as I get older, it's things like visual images of other people suffering that make me cry, things on television make me cry, they would never have made me cry 10 years ago I don't think actually, oddly. Anyway, this is really difficult. Politics is a miserable and ugly business at times and the Chancellor of the Exchequer being a woman for the first time, there is absolutely no doubt that Rachel Reeves has had to put up

with all the predictable misogyny. I get really worn down by these muppets who delight in using the phrase Rachel from accounts as they like to have a go at the Chancellor. Britain's got a whole string of economic problems. We've got to save money on the welfare bill because frankly we need to spend more money on defence and other things. Rachel Reeves has got a degree in politics, philosophy and economics from Oxford. She's far better qualified than 99.9% of her moronic critics. Is she perfect? No. Has she made mistakes? Yes. But you know what, there's no doubt she has a tougher time than any other occupant of that post. So Michelle, I hope that has helped. I'm not sure it has. But I would just go back to the point that you've made there, which is I think we would all do the world of the public forum of politics a favour if we did call out cruelty and nastiness

because the bar is changing, isn't it, and in completely the wrong direction, and some of the stuff that it now seems to be acceptable to say, and the way that it's said just cannot, cannot be beneficial in the long run. So thank you very much indeed for that. We will move on. I tell you what, yesterday won't have encouraged women into politics, will it? Well, I think maybe it just won't encourage people into politics, Jane. I mean, particularly particularly women but people and also the notion that until we know what it is that's upset Rachel Reeves, you know, we

can't be, we can't judge the situation properly. I think that puts all people off going into politics because if you've got something really really big going on at home, why should it be? And I know the argument is because it can shift the markets if you're the chancellor. Well, it did, unfortunately. But the idea that you always have to carry your personal baggage in public if you accept to roll in public office, I do think that that is unfair. I really, really do think it's unfair. I suppose I want... She shouldn't have gone into the chamber. But if she would have been, she'd have been criticised if she hadn't. There would be massive, massive criticism. And to be honest, I think anybody else who

had had that kind of a rough day at work yesterday would have taken today off. But she's back on her feet. She's already been out and about. She's already, you know, trying to just draw a line underneath it. And I say absolute props to her for doing that because I don't think that that is the right expectation of somebody actually so I feel quite strongly that we're all getting this a little bit wrong. I kind of want to ride both horses so I want to feel, I do feel huge sympathy for Rachel Ruves. I also think it's wrong to completely criticise Kemmy Badernot for basically doing her job.

She looked gleeful. Well, and it's not, it's, but the whole business is nasty. And I just think sometimes we have to just accept it, that, you know, points have got to be made. It's a, it's a combative and gladiatorial environment. It doesn't have to be. But it is. Yeah, but it doesn't have to be made. It's a it's a combative and gladiatorial environment. It doesn't have to be. But it is. Yeah, but it doesn't have to be.

Yeah, well, I know. It's just I kind of I don't want Kemi Badenock to be criticised because I'm not sure she had many other options. It's just not very nice. None of it is very nice. But maybe we get the politicians we deserve. Most of us wouldn't do it, most of us wouldn't do it because it's the pay's crap, the hours are terrible and the pressure is absolutely ungodly. Yeah it is. So there you go. Shall we seek solace... But do vote though everybody, it's very important to vote. Shall we seek solace in art because you've

sent some magnificent pictures of murals to the podcast. This one comes in from a long-time listener, many know Steady Yourself, Eve. No, there's no jingle. No jingle needed. Long-time listener, many times, E-mailer. Yeah, at ease, stand back, take your finger off the button. Yep. You might find this rather hard to believe that this isn't actually a man up a ladder, it is a phenomenal, it's a trompe l'oeil basically isn't it. It's a mural painted on the side of a pub in Stourbridge in the West Midlands. I'm sure many people pass it without even realising that it's not a real man. And Pat has also urged us to look up Presseter Eyes murals and I'm

sorry if I'm pronouncing that wrongly I'll give you an alternative version Prequeta Eye's murals in San Francisco. Some absolutely amazing art, well worth a visit in real life if you're in the vicinity of the Mission District where our daughter lived. Obviously Jane and I will look that up online because San Francisco is far too far away for us to travel to. Difficult time difference. There's also some amazing silo art from Australia which I think, did I not print that one off? I'll flick through the emails while you do another one.

Shout out to Emma who on a rare day away from her four month old son and desperate for a change of scene went with a friend to London Drag Fest in the August of 2021. See a tatched pic for Lou Pick of face sparkle, lashes and pretty sure I was the only one on the premises with my handheld pump whirring away in action. If my now four-year-old explores life as a drag queen this will be why. Thank you Emma and thank you for telling us about your unusual place, well in your case to have expressed milk. I never got on with a breast pump but I know they work for many. Did you never do a breast pump?

Tried but couldn't. That was so strange. Couldn't get it to function. Oh Jane's got it, just there. Grain silo art comes in from Julie Collins. I thought you might be interested in silo art, which can be seen all over Australia in outback country towns on what used to be huge plain white or grey grain silos. You can Google Australian silo art trails to see wonderful examples.

It also brings tourism to these towns, often depicting their way of life or history of the area. And they are phenomenal. So these silos must be, what, 50 meters high possibly even more so and the examples that you've sent there's one of the most amazing kind of burning orange sunset behind some very beautiful sheep and there are some toiling men on another one. Those are just extraordinary and thank you very much indeed for sending them in. It still doesn't answer the original question though, Julia, about how you manage to do

the perspective when you're painting at such enormous scale. So if anybody knows an artist who would be able to explain that to us, I'd still be very grateful. Because it's so hot, do you do it at night? Well quite possibly, yeah, but it's just, it just recreates the perspective so brilliantly, I just don't answer, because that sheep's head must easily be five meters high, so how are you getting the shading on that? That question will, I'm afraid, remain on the spot. Shout out to Pauline. Pauline's in Birmingham. Pauline's been, she's the person responsible for this fantastic bunting.

And we're very, very grateful because I've got some, Fee's got some, Eve's got some, Rosie's got some, even Jamal has got some. And we're all incredibly grateful. Pauline, thank you. And she she's really worked hard on her bunting. And it's it's rather precious and wonderful stuff. Pauline is, can we give her full name because she's running a business I guess, it's Pauline Fatoui, so thank you very much Pauline.

And the bunting is very gay in the old fashioned sense of that much loved adjective. Yeah, can we go back to using gay in different ways? We had a gay afternoon, We had a very gay afternoon Why not? Yeah, I think we should This has been in touch long time listener stand down a third time emailer I want to share my experience my early 20s of appearing on three game shows I did it for the cash or at least in the hope of a big win But securing a spot on one of the big money shows at the time like The Chair or any other hosted by a middle-aged safe pair of hounds

was not easy. Suffice to say the programmes I eventually successfully auditioned for are less known to anyone who actually watched TV during acceptable hours. My first was Celebrity Addicts. I don't know how they got that one through. Who commissioned that? I don't know. In which I correctly identified Lisa Kudrow via her nostrum. It just gets worse. And I won a DVD player. My second was Brain Teaser. No idea either. In which the only crossword clue I got right was Robocop, up against an Oxford undergrad who mercilessly beat me and the third, you're so right that these are very, very, they're niche aren't they Liz? The third, Memory Bank,

my finest game show hour for which I competed against a countdown champion and the postman from Family Affairs. Both were smug know-all men who thought I didn't stand a chance but when on the final round I buzzed before them both with my correct response of Sean Bean they could barely look at me through their mirth. I tell you what it's something for male overconfidence that the guy who played the postman from Family Affairs rated himself. Family Affairs was Channel 5's very sudsy soap opera I think. Yes it's quite a mix isn't it? A countdown champion, Liz and presumably living in hope of being a well-known actor. In the final and solo money-making round in which I had to recite a list of words from memory I included raspberry and beret

as my friend Steve had bet me five pounds I wouldn't. The hosts were all female and incredibly encouraging of my efforts but as I said they were not being watched by anybody with a daytime job working in the media PR industry in the early noughties where most people gained their entry level jobs by working for free. I genuinely thought it would be worth taking a day's annual leave from my terribly paid career to try and win a few hundred pounds. I would have earned much more from the big primetime shows but in those days you had to be a police officer named Beth married to a nice man with an MBA. I just really really love it. It's a

beautiful and you've absolutely nailed it description of the type of person who would tip up on those enormous game shows and you're right I mean you should, you should, of course, if you're in an absolutely rubbish, badly paid job, just skive off the day and try and win thousands of pounds. Because they'll never know, will they, that you're actually on that day. They're not going out live. No, I'm thinking about this. They do quite carefully cast quiz shows, don't they? Because the one that Ant and Dec have done recently, which

I don't think has been terribly successful, where you really can win a lot of money, I can't remember the name of it now. You quite often had NHS people on that, and not knocking them, where would you be without them? But it's very rare, you wouldn't get someone who, you know, frankly was, you know, should we say,, well no, I just go back to my original point. They're carefully cast. You wouldn't get Daniel the very successful property developer from... Or an estate agent. Yeah, you know, from the south of London.

Or if you did have an estate agent, there'd be a kind of, there'd be a joke made about them wouldn't there? Yeah. Yeah. Nothing wrong with estate agents. Regular listeners might know that my mother was once told by a fortune teller that I was going to become one. It never quite happened.

Would you like to show lots of people around houses with a joyful spring in your step? Boast a tile flashback. Flashback, flashback, flashback. Oh god, some of the stuff doing the rounds at the moment on estate agents' websites, because they're using AI, it is mind-boggling. The language of estate agents has always been slightly odd. I might conjure some up for you while you're doing an email because it has got so much worse recently and by the way Liz thank you very much indeed for your email I don't think I gave quite enough welly to your rhymes raspberry and beray, beret, raspberry.

Yeah, get it. It's very good. I like that very much. Yeah. The first thing I Googled this morning, we often threaten or I sometimes threaten maybe just in my head that we should do a feature called what have you most recently searched for?

Oh my God, well, you know that. No, first thing I searched for this morning, are shower heads universal? And the answer is maybe, but not necessarily. If any plumbers are listening, please contact me on this. My shower head is spraying out in a multitude of different directions, none of them good. Well, have you tried de-scaling it? I've de-scaled it recently.

Yeah, I've de-scaled it, yeah. Do you want to know my last six search? Go on. The restaurant that we're going to tonight, a recipe for tiramisu, Roger Federer, Raffer and Adele's game at Wimbledon 2008, LBC's text number, I was really angry this morning, and Bravissimo, because I need a new swimsuit for big boobs. Right.

It's a great game. It is a good game. I don't have my, fortunately I don't have my phone with me. Well you've been looking up wildfires. Tell me about it. I mean look it's a very, it's very parochial but I was hoping to go to Crete next week. I wish everybody well in Greece, it's horrible wildfires, they're terrible. Just wanted to mention again that fantastic book I love called The Eights by Joanna Miller. Joanna herself emailed which I was very touched by, thank you Joanna. But we've had another recommendation here for that book from Amanda who is on holiday from Australia. She's visiting aged parent in Sheffield she says,

I don't usually read much on that tedious flight preferring distraction of a more visual and vacuous nature. However, I read that delicious novel for hours and my enjoyment was further increased by the comfortingly large font of my edition. I tell you what, there's nothing nothing to beat a large font. In later life we all love a larger font and it is such an involving read that. Samantha, Amanda, I do apologize you're not called Samantha, you're very much called Amanda. Samantha, Amanda, I do apologise you're not called Samantha, you're very much called Amanda. I hope your time in Sheffield is good and your aged parent is enjoying the summer. Right, what have you got? No, you've got to do just one more because I'm trying to find a really, really, really

peachy one here. Anonymous says, I enjoyed your commentary on Rod Stewart's glass dough set, especially Fee's description of Mick Hucknall's primary school emergency outfit. Despite my youthful age of nearly 24, I have tickets with my parents and teenage sister to see Simply Red in October and I should say I cannot wait. Mick's dulcet tones got me through many a tough A-level revision session back in the day.

I promise I'm cooler than I sound, says Anonymous. In fairness, and I think we did say this, he's got an amazing voice, and I think songs like Holding Back the Years are just tremendous. I mean, they're so, so moving, actually. She goes on to say, I have nothing to say about Rod as frankly,

I don't know anything about the man or his music, and I don't care to. However, I will say his wife Penny is a regular at the cafe where I've been working for the past three years and she has always been polite. Something that cannot be said for all of the customers. Right. It's my last month at the cafe before I start training to become a secondary school English teacher in September. Well, best of luck with that.

Thank you very much. She says, I've been listening to your podcast since way back at the old place. I was introduced to you by Dolly and Pandora. Gosh, you have been around a long time, Anonymous. Really, best of luck to you. I hope everything goes well. She does have a question for you, Fee. What is your coffee of choice? Well, at the moment it's a strong Americano with oat milk. Did you

get that Anonymous? Strong, small Americano. I don't like a bucket. You can't drink a bucket? No, because sometimes they'll put an Americano in something that you'd take into the cinema for a long film, that size of cup, and that's too much. Anonymous says, PS, I have replayed the bit in one of last week's episodes about hinge heads and chogs about three times as it did make me laugh. Yes, it's still making me laugh for that actually, Anonymous. And shout out to everybody in the hospitality industry and world because grotty customers are a fact of life. They're also a pain in the backside. Very much so and especially the celebrity or celebrity adjacent ones because

I have seen people do that terrible thing where they're being really moody and gruff and horrible and then somebody recognises them. And they suddenly start radiating goodness. Shiny and funny. Yeah. Yeah. I can't find, there's a specific speck on a house that I read recently that I just, I don't want to waste people's time by bringing them something substandard, so I will go away over the weekend and find that. But can we just put out a general plea, and I mean this sincerely, estate agents just speak English, write English.

There's no need to use the funny words. A house doesn't need to boast. It doesn't need to boast a balcony, does it? About a tiled splashback or indeed a balcony. No. It just has one. No. Yeah. And when they try and describe how one space moves into another, well it doesn't actually. It just doesn't. And there was one that I... It's just, it's static. It's space. Unless you're pissed. Yeah. But there was one very odd description that I read the other day about how the eye lines of the drawing room into the kitchen or something matched up and I just genuinely had no idea

what they were banging on about. What do they mean? The eye line. You mean it's on the same level? I don't know. I don't know. But I find the very, very, very pretentious one. If you are an estate agent, Just explain what you're up to. And maybe don't use the AI because it's not helping you out at all. And does anybody actually read it?

I mean, you just look at the pictures and the price and then you move on. We did have a little look yesterday, well actually I made you have a little look at Ellen DeGeneres' new Cotswold mansion. It's a vish, you put it up there on the Insta. This is what boggles me about celebrities. I mean, how much privacy do they actually want, these people? She's come to Britain to live because she doesn't like what's going on over there. Yeah, she's in the Cotswolds. Yes, and so that's public. I mean, in a way, that's more than we strictly speaking need to know,

isn't it? You could just drive somewhere north of Bambri and shout, go on! Not that I dislike her but I don't really know anything about her. I've seen tiny clips from her chat show. I can't say it drew me in particularly but why is she showing everybody pictures of her house? I don't know. So she put it on her own Instagram. Well it was on her Instagram, I'm gonna have to find that as well. Okay busy busy times. Greetings from Australia. This one comes in from Kathy. Good morning Jane and Fete. Would you like an accent on that? I think so. Good morning Jane and Fete and Eve from Wollongong,

New South Wales. Now I'm very fond of Wollongong. Smell the kangaroo dung. Because my VCN thing, VPN, my VPN. Can you better explain for the less technically adept what you're referring to. So you can download a VPN which means that you can watch stuff in different parts of the world because it changes the kind of setting of where you're receiving your Wi-Fi input from. Is that right? About right? Yeah, whatever. So is it a way of... Is it free? No, you pay for it. Oh, you pay for it. And there was just one series in Australia that I really, really, really wanted to watch. So we bought the VPN. How much would you pay for it?

Not very much actually. So is it a physical thing? Same price as a London Strong Americano. No, it's not a physical thing. You just download it as an app. But then if you forget to change it, quite a lot of the time I'm watching as if I am in Wollongong. So it'll tell me when I've powered down the TV that I'm in New South Wales. I don't always understand what you're saying and now I really don't. I'm really sorry. I wish you'd be able to answer my showerhead question. You seemed on very unsafe ground there so you didn't even attempt.

I'm not some plumber. I don't know what's wrong with your shower head. You just immediately accused me of not being an efficient descaler when I'm hard at it with the descaling fluid more often than I care to admit. Is it hard water? Maybe there's something wrong with your thread. Could be. Yeah. Have you unscrewed it and screwed it back? Well that's a dangerous thing because you know sometimes I did that once and it dropped it and it crashed onto the floor and created a dent. Yeah, heavy things aren't they. Yeah they're very heavy.

I'd have someone else to mend the floor. Anyway, yes I think by and large shall we get back to Cathy? Who's in Wollongong. She's actually there. She is there. But you know what, that's why there were ads on Scrublands. Because I was watching from Wollongong instead of on the normal iPad. That does explain why I was not treated to any ads. You're watching BBC programs, well supplied by the BBC, in Italy.

Vile Australia! Well, Vile Australia. That's just rad. For your own amusement. Oh, yep, sorry about that. I work from home and listen to your podcast without fail. You were discussing the strike date in Switzerland celebrating women winning the right to vote and it reminded me that there is a fabulous 2017 film, The Divine Order, about this very topic. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be available on the streaming services currently without renting or buying it. Now this is the description.

The Divine Order is a 2017 Swiss comedy drama film directed by Petra Volpe. It was selected as the Swiss entry for the best foreign language film at the 90th Academy Awards but it was not nominated. The film centres on Nora Ruckstuhl, a housewife and mother in a small village. She publicly advocated for women's suffrage in Switzerland to be voted on in a 1971 referendum. So I love the sound of that. A Swiss comedy drama film. That's what we need this weekend. I didn't know that, I know this is awful. I don't associate the sound of that. A Swiss comedy drama film. That's what we need this weekend. I didn't know that, I know this is awful. I don't associate the Swiss with humour. Well I think just the whole comedy drama women's suffrage, 1971, and Switzerland is a heady

mix. It certainly is. It's intriguing. It's awful isn't it because the British credit themselves with having a great sense of humour. It's all absolute bollocks. I mean every country thinks it's got a great sense of humour. Well also our sense of humour has not aged well. No. Well.

If you think about our biggest hits, careful, then the stuff that came out of this country in the 70s and 80s you wouldn't want to see that again would you? What, Benny Hill? Yep. Well no, no. Is he still running around somewhere? No I think he's taken up permanent residence in that bush. He was always wearing suspenders wasn't he? Was he? Or were they confusing him with Kenny Everett? I genuinely don't know. With that, VPN and Wulongong, if you're going to move to the

outback at least tell me before you go. But Cathy goes on to say I'm soon to retire and my husband and I will be on a trip to the UK and Italy in late August. It'll be my first trip to the UK although my husband has been many times over the years. The main location of interest will be to visit Friday Thorpe near Driftfield, close to York and Hull. Now, do you know why? No, I don't. Why would you go there? Because my father, Pat Hogan, was a navigator

in the RAF in World War II, and his plane was shot down on return to their Driftfield base. He was one of only three who survived the crash. My sister organised a memorial plaque on the site several years ago so I'm very keen to see it. I'm also very excited to discover my Irish roots in, and you're going to have to do that, with your best. Clonmel. Clonmel. Clonmel. And Templemoor. Thank you for your podcast. And then you add a little bit of detail. The plane was part of the Royal Air Force's 466 Squadron. Fridaythorpe is located between Driftfield and Pocklington.

The crash site is on Jill's farm. Patrick Hogan was born in Victoria, Australia in 1922 and he was one of only three crew members to survive the crash. So that will be quite a day, that'll be quite a thing. Yeah, yes I hope that works well for you and you feel glad that you've been there. Yes. Presumably the lady who owns the farm is absolutely up to speed with this and perfectly happy for everyone to come along and well I would imagine if she allowed a memorial. Did I say that wrong? I can have a plaque plaque plaque plaque plaque plaque. Yeah Thank you. Sorry. Eve's laughing. Eve's got a banana out. What's going on?

She expressed a desire for a banana some time ago. It's due to... Oh, Jack Mosley's here. Okay, we need to crack on. Jack Mosley is the guest today and I've collated all of your emails about weight loss drugs. Right. Okay, so Jack Mosley is the guest. Just, we want to mention Ruth. She says, now Ruth, I mean, if I've sounded mad in this podcast, it's just comforting to know that Ruth's also having a struggle. She just says, I can see Les Dawson in my knees.

Is it a miracle? Crack on, says Ruth. It could be. And we're here for your miracles. We are here for your Les Dawson knees. Any chance of a picture? With what? Of Les Dawson? Oh no! Of Ruth's knees. Oh, yeah, come on Ruth.

Yeah, come on. Yeah, delight your many fans. You might not think you have them, but trust me, when they've seen your knees, you'll have loads of them. You can make a fortune out of those knees. Anything goes in 2025. You can make a fortune out of those knees. Anything goes in 2025. Now Britain will be fat free within a decade with more people given access to weight loss jabs. This in from the Health Secretary, Wes Streating. He says he's on a mission. Half a million people in the UK are currently using weight loss medication with 95% accessing it privately. But with such a huge uptake on the NHS horizon, do we know enough

about the side effects of these drugs, both good and bad, and how should we be changing our lives and our diets if we are taking them? Well, Jack Mosley's book Food Noise sets out to fill in some of the gaps. Jack has been a doctor for seven years in emergency medicine and now a GP, and he wrote the book partly to carry on the work his dad Michael Moseley had done in looking at weight and diet. I started our chat by asking Jack exactly what the term food noise means. So food noise is essentially that mental chatter around food. It's your internal food monologue. It's that voice that tells you to grab an extra slice of chocolate cake or get that big share a bag of crisps.

I think the reason food noise has become such a prominent term is because the weight loss medications are so effective at reducing that food noise. A lot of people can really relate to it. I like to think of the weight loss drugs as these noise cancelling headphones. So when you put them on, you can go about your day, you don't hear that mental chatter around food in the same way. But then when you take them off, that food noise comes rushing back with a vengeance. Right, we've got so much to talk about with these weight loss jabs. First question though

is how do they work? It's interesting that you've already referred to how they might change your mental attitude to food but what are they doing to you physically when you take them? So they work on, so they're the GLP-1 agonists, that's kind of the class of medications. So they work on three key organs really, they work on multiple others around the bodies but there's three key ones. Firstly, and this is the reason why they've been used for 20 years for type 2 diabetes, is they help control your blood sugar and they work on the pancreas and liver. Secondly, they are these gut hormones so they act on the gut. So they slow down your stomach, they slow down the emptying of your stomach and they slow down your gut and this is one of the reasons you get these side effects

as well as reducing your appetite. And I think finally, and the reason why they are so popular is because they work directly on your brain. So they reduce your appetite centrally, but they also, as I've kind of alluded to already, is they reduce your cravings, which is essentially your food noise. And this is kind of why they are so popular really. Have all of the different aspects of it been clinically tested? And this has come up in so much correspondence from our listeners.

We've had people who've said actually, my IBS seems to be remarkably reduced. My proper bad relationship with food, so an anorexic relationship with food seems to have been changed.xic relationship with food seems to have been changed. My addiction to alcohol seems to have been changed. When these drugs went through clinical trials, were all of those things being considered

or literally just the weight loss? So there are a lot of these interesting knock-on effects like you mentioned there and a lot of these, we are still not really sure, a lot of it like you say is quite anecdotal and there's not a huge amount of research yet that kind of proves one way or another whether they could be used for these other things. For instance, I think one of the really interesting ways they do work and well or appear to work is like you mentioned on addiction and especially things like alcohols. Anecdotally people say you know I couldn't drink that bottle of wine that I used to drink compared and now they can manage glass or you know even people are talking about less chewing their nails, less scrolling on social media, all of these sorts of things,

but it hasn't been fully established yet and a lot of it at the moment is observational studies really. Right, I mean they do seem to be being proffered as the panacea to all ills. Does that worry you as a doctor? I think there is understandably a lot of hype around these medications, but they're not a magic fix. They're not a magic bullet. A lot of the way they work, I would say, is still around the fact that people who have poor metabolic health or living with obesity and obesity-related diseases, if you lose 5, 10, 15% of your body weight, you can dramatically improve your health and you're probably eating less processed food and all sorts of things. So that to me as far as I've seen is the main real way that they are working.

There does seem to be some potential that they do work on other areas as well, for instance, you know, your heart, your kidneys, you're reducing dementia risk, but once again, I suspect a lot of that is how they do improve your metabolic health. Okay, so basically your body is just getting better because it's losing the excess weight and so some of these remarkable things are happening to you simply because you're healthier. Therefore, quite logical, not necessarily quite so remarkable. Wes Streeting is certainly very invested in them, isn't he? Our current Health Secretary, and in fact he said today that he hopes that Britain will be fat free in a decade

through the use of these drugs. The jabs are a route not just to lower weight but lower taxes. Now that is quite the direct connection to make. Do you think that that is achievable? I think the timeline will be longer than that to begin with. So especially the way they're being rolled out in the NHS is quite slow. So they are technically available at the moment to people with a BMI of over 40 and 4 weight-related diseases, which is quite a lot. But even within that group, very few people are going to be able to access it, at least for several months as the kind of GPs really prepare and put around these wraparound services. And like I say, I think for certain people who are living with obesity and all of these obesity related diseases, they can make a huge amount of difference, but they're not a wonder drug.

And it's still so important that you put in all the nutritional and lifestyle strategies too. Yeah and we definitely need to talk about that because actually this is what your book is about too but just one more question on the kind of politics of it all because you make this point in your book, unless we take steps to diminish the power of big food to deliver highly processed calorie dense yet nutritionally depleted junk food which has been cynically designed to be consumed in excess. We will only be switching one set of health challenges for another. And this is the key point isn't it? Do we become a

society where our bad habits have been encouraged by big food and then big farmer gives us a good habit and we're caught up in a profit making loop. And like you said it's a very it is this very interesting conundrum where big farmer are you know they are they are essentially profiting from the problem big food has created. The real kind of solution would be some more regulation especially around things like even something basic like advertising of these processed foods. So it's a difficult situation where food addiction is a real thing but unlike drug or alcohol addiction with food we still need to eat so it is everywhere and it's unavoidable really.

Let's talk about some of the fantastic recommendations that you make in the book because we are on a new frontier here aren't we? If you're taking weight loss drugs surrounding the taking of that drug has to be a change in the way that you look at your body. So there are some terms that I've never heard of before and I'll probably pronounce this wrong but is it malnubicity? What is that and why would people be getting that? So this was one of the concerns I raised in the book is the fact that we are overfed but we are undernourished so we have this kind of highly calorific, but not very nutritious foods already that we're eating that have been created by big foods.

They often strip away the fiber, the vitamins, all of these things to preserve shelf life or make it more palatable. So 50% of people who are living with obesity, this was a study in the US, 50% of them have some micronutrient deficiency already. So if you're just eating less of a not very nutritious diet then I do have concerns that people will end up with some degree

of malnutrition. And would that be exacerbated when you lose weight very quickly on these drugs? It would be exacerbated if you don't change what you eat and you didn't have a very, you know, nutritious filling diet before, then if you stay, if you're just eating, you know, instead of a big bowl of chips, you're going to just eat a smaller bowl, then there's not that much nutrition in that sort of food. So it could be exacerbated. And for instance, we saw with Robbie Williams, so he's actually, he came out several months ago to say he was taking the weight loss drugs. He developed scurvy, which is a disease

of 16th century pirates and sailors who had been away for months at a time and had no access to fresh food and veg. So I think this is an extreme example. It's actually something I did talk about in the books, Curvy. But yeah, clearly some people have developed some of these incredibly rare diseases. So talk to me about muscle as well,

because I didn't realise that you lose muscle when you diet very quickly, but then if you return to eating, you put on fat. So you're on a seesaw, aren't you there? With these weight loss drugs what the studies seem to show at least that people were losing between 25 to 40 percent of the weight they lose is lean body mass and the main component of that is is muscle. Do you worry that people are losing that too quickly and what does that mean to your body? So losing the weight quickly in itself isn't necessarily a problem and actually some studies

show that the more weight you lose at the beginning is a suggestive of how much weight you lose in the long term really. What I think people can do to offset that is you know eat plenty of protein because like I say if you are restricting how much food you eat, it will become more difficult to get enough protein in and also doing exercise, but even considering something like strength training is really important to preserve your muscle mass because, like you mentioned, you know, you can lose this muscle but it's more difficult to put back on the muscle. We've had quite a few questions from our listeners about food and eating disorders and weight loss drugs. Too many actually to put to you now but if I can just bring in one of our correspondents Rachel who wanted to talk about anorexia in particular with regard to weight

loss drugs and she says my daughter like a lot of people living with anorexia in particular with regard to weight loss drugs. And she says, my daughter, like a lot of people living with anorexia, completely lost her sense of hunger when she was very ill. It wasn't that she was ignoring or overriding her desire to eat. Her body had stopped it entirely. There's an awful lot else that Rachel tells us in her email. But could I just put to you,

for people who are really struggling with their relationship with food and it has become a terrible life-threatening sometimes thing like anorexia, do you worry about what the weight loss drugs are offering? Because you can see how people would think, well, if I take those drugs, maybe it will help with the food noise in my head, but also it will keep my body weight down and there will be people who will be keeping their body weight down to a very unhealthy level. It's something I am definitely worried about and it's something I, again, I do talk about

in the book because ultimately these weight loss drugs are for people, you know, they're licensed for people with a BMI of over 27 and a weight-related disease or over 30, so who are either overweight or living with obesity. They're not for people who are described as a healthy BMI. I think there is a lot of stigma around weight in our society and they could exacerbate eating disorders and that is a real, and they could exacerbate eating disorders and that is a real, really big concern. So that's one of the reasons they do need significant regulation in terms of accessing these drugs. There should be at least an initial video consultation. I can just bring in one of our correspondents.

She wanted to talk about the weight loss drugs she's using and alcohol addiction and she slightly kind of slid into being addicted to drinking. She knew she was on a slippery slope and started researching these drugs and their effects on addiction to drink as much as food and she reports that after two weeks she's lost not only eight pounds but her reaction to her highly dependable glasses of red wine and extras in the pub has been remarkable. She says with absolutely no side effects. I've really managed to cut down. I've got more energy, a clearer head, much better sleep. And she goes on to say, Jack, I don't intend to be on it long term.

A couple of months will hopefully reset my mental attitude to drinking which had got completely out of hand and I did think when I read that what is the advice about stopping these drugs do they only work particularly for someone who has found them to be beneficial for the drinking as well as eating when you're taking them with that sensation just go afterwards? So that is the main way they work. They have a half life of... It depends, it's different for each medication, but it can be around six days. And that's why you have the injection every week. So the half life is when half of the substance is essentially broken down.

So they only work when you are taking the weight loss medications. But this is why I think if you are thinking of taking them, it's so important to change your habits and your lifestyle and what you're eating and for some what you're drinking in terms of alcohol. Because you can really, habits are a powerful thing. They can be negative habits, but you can also build these positive habits, get into a virtuous cycle and really improve your health. So hopefully, I do have hope that if people are focusing on the right nutritional lifestyle strategies, they can ingrain habits that will last beyond

the weight loss drugs. And a very quick one from Rachel who says, I know that we've talked about whether or not weight loss drugs can interfere with a contraceptive pill, but are there any reports it can affect HRT? It depends. So with HRT, and you know, a lot of, most people don't take it orally anymore. In fact, it's often got more side effects and risks

if you take it orally anymore. In fact it's often got more side effects and risks if you take it orally. So a lot of people yeah take it through other other means. So if it's I think it's only if you are taking it orally it could interfere with the absorption there. So you're slapping on a patch you're probably all right. Yeah exactly. So as far as we know if you're slapping on a patch it shouldn't interfere with that. So I hope that that know, if you're slapping on a patch, it shouldn't really interfere with that. So I hope that that's answered some of your questions. Jack Mosley's book is called Food Noise, and it's not just a whole book about weight loss jabs. It's actually a very useful guide if you're trying to lose weight. So there are loads of recipes in the back. Some of them look really tasty and just some very,

very sensible advice about dieting and weight loss in general. So Jack Mosley is the name. Now I'm away for a couple of weeks. Yes you'll be, you are going to be spared. But Jamal is very much in position and chomping at the bit. She is. So it is me and Jamal for next week and then the week after we're just taking a complete break aren't we because I'll be away too. So good luck with your Grecian experience. No genuinely I hope it's okay. You have to change location. It's not my problem is it? No but don't come to France okay. Whereabouts in France? No that's a a secret. Oh, you've already mentioned it, I know where you're going. It's on a need-to-know basis. I'm just going to track you down. With

your VPN. I'll be hurling when you shower head around. Goodbye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.