Off Air... with Jane and Fi - We can only be where we are... and that's here (with Anthony Scaramucci)

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

Happy Thursday! Jane ponders how she’d respond if someone offered her bread and milk in a time of need, whilst Fi thinks about where the Rogers of the world have disappeared to… Plus, Jane speaks to Anthony Scaramucci ahead of his talk “Trump, US Politcs And Me” at the Chalke Festival.If you want to come and see us at Fringe by the Sea, you can buy tickets here: www.fringebythesea.com/fi-jane-and-judy-murray/And if you fancy sending us a postcard, the address is:Jane and FiTimes Radio, News UK1 London Bridge StreetLondonSE1 9GFIf you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] next book club pick has been announced! We’ll be reading Leonard and Hungry Paul by Rónán Hession.Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Hannah QuinnPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's a hospital for hedgehogs with difficult bottoms. Look, I don't know. I'm determined to take this seriously. Well, it says here, from Hedgehog Bottom Hospital and Rescue. Sophie's very unhappy with this. Well, go on then. I really enjoy your podcast. I usually fall asleep to it and re-listen if I miss a substantial chunk, excluding the bit with most of your guests.

Sometimes I have to bite on my pillow so my husband doesn't hear me laughing. Today, your total smugness was off the charts. Maybe you should take a moment to listen to it yourselves in a quiet moment. I'm no aeronautical engineer, but that's only because at Bristol University when I got there it seemed like bloody hard work. So I switched to economics on my first day in 1983 because my working week would then be over by Wednesday lunchtime. But Max 3, is that not some something razor brand?

And you kept on talking about it, my second-hand embarrassment through the roof Surely Concorde only hit just over Mac to briefly over the mid-atlantic very lazy and a bit rubbish to be honest Anyway, only one more this week. So don't bother putting in any more effort Sophie how long did she do aeronautical engineering for? Sophie. How long did she do aeronautical engineering for? She didn't. Just the day? Yes. Just one day of it. But then she wanted to do economics because it was only a kind of two and a half day week at the University. So we've really upset her there. I'm sorry Sophie. And do you know what, I think out of all of the things we've ever said on this podcast, I mean the moronic bin is overflowing, Sophie, with TIT bits.

I didn't think that was particularly about it. I thought it was actually, I think we were entitled not to really understand Mac 3. I don't think it was the biggest of all clangers, no. But look, look, sometimes people just get on your wick. Yeah. We both understand that. And Sophie, thank you for emailing in, honestly. What do we do about Joe, who just says,

I'd be obliged if you and all other broadcasters would stop giving Trump airtime as I keep switching off. I cannot bear the sound of his voice. He makes me feel ill. And this is Joe, who I suspect was listening to Time's Radio yesterday afternoon. And this is genuinely a quandary, isn't it? So yesterday, the NATO summit, oh, and the guest, guest by the way in this podcast is Anthony Scaramucci so

he'll have a thing or two to say about that, the NATO summit and Keir Starmer spoke, Mark Carney spoke but we took live Donald Trump speaking. Now why did we take Donald Trump live because? There is an expectation now that he will say something that rocks the world. So one of the last times that we had heard him speak before he stood up at NATO was what would now become a classic because it was crossing a line in the sand where he swore whilst he was discussing two nation states, Israel and Iran. So the expectation is that we should take every single word and globule that comes out of his mouth just in case it's something as surprising or shocking as that.

But actually, most of what he said yesterday afternoon was drivel. I mean it really was. It was also a repetition wasn't it? Because he said a lot of it earlier in the day. And there was nothing in there that actually merited news time really. You could have condensed it at the end into, he still doubts the intelligence that has been quoted by CNN and the New York Times about whether or not the nuclear facilities in Iran have been truly diminished? Well today apparently, and it's unfortunate timing because let's just be honest about this, I'm due to talk to Anthony Scaramucci at half past 12 our time.

Pete Hegseth is giving, he's the US Defense Secretary, is giving a press conference starting at one our time about evidence in speech marks that will tell us exactly what happened in Iran in terms of the American strikes there. So we're going to have to, well, we can't, we got to do the interview on the basis of something that neither of us have heard from Pete Hegseth. But I think it's just plain fact that Donald Trump for all his hyperbole and his hypocrisy and the inconsistencies and globule is a great word is is ranting muttering no sentences no no no forethought no polish we associate with international states beautiful pilots

and there were beautiful people in Dutchland and he wanted to take back the trees. He's box office. He's just, he's box office. I'm sorry Joe and I really wish he wasn't but we only are, we can only be where we are and we're here. God help us all. We can only be where we are and we're here. That is your brain fighting so hard not to say it is what it is. Well, exactly. I will not say it is what it is. But I just think it's worth saying and Joe, thank you for calling it out. I was speaking to my mom last night.

You know, she's now in her 90s and she needs reassurance from me that the world is in a strange place. So she said, well, I listened to your programs and I listened to Donald Trump. What's he on about? And she wants reassurance that she isn't the only person who's just thinking, what have we come to? Because as you get into your more senior years, you are, you're beginning to think, is it just, is it just me? But you know, she remembers John F. Kennedy. She doesn't get this. And she, I think we don't, he's lulled us into this place where we have begun to accept this as the new normal and it isn't normal for a president

for example or any politician to question the credentials of journalists asking him questions. I know some people will say, well at least Donald Trump takes questions. True, he does. But he demeans the questioner often and his answers don't make any sense. But yeah, he takes questions. But also, so he calls, he calls CNN and the New York Times in particular scum, doesn't he? MSNBC scum. And the huge problem with that is that there's no, I mean that he could use his knowledge, he sees all the US intelligence, he sees the evidence, he could better explain his point of view if he wanted to, but he just appears to not be really bothered to, so he just says you're scum.

He is the one person who's in the room who would be able to persuade you if in fact that intelligence is dubious. You haven't seen it, I haven't seen it. So we could be having a much more grown up conversation. And it's important because particularly in this country, we cannot forget the promises that were made by politicians about evidence that had been seen that took us into a previous war in the Gulf where people lost their lives and the Middle East didn't really benefit from it. We are thinking on our live program though, Joe, and you might be heartened by this, of creating a new slot which will be called What's Happening While He Trumps and we will look

at all of the other news that isn't really getting enough attention at the moment because I think lots of us working in the media are scum. We are frustrated by the amount of attention that we have to give him too, but you would hate it if we missed something important. That's the truth of it too. Yeah, but do let us know what you think about all this because we are, we're not absolutely certain in our own minds and we're, I think it's very difficult because I appreciate that people are interested in bad things and sometimes they're interested I am in terrible people and the awful things they've done and that's just human nature and there we are but that's that. Let's talk

jingle shall we? Pearls back. She says apologies for yelling in my last email but that first jingle did come across rather loudly. If you haven't listened for the last couple of days we've got these new jingles celebrating long-time listeners, first-time emailers and we're hugely grateful in particular to Hillary and John for their efforts in making these jingles. Now we don't want to play one just yet, Anna. She's poised. She is poised. Poised. You know who is still at you know where?

Jubaq next week. But Hannah is a more than adequate replacement, we need to say. Pearl does say that the first time the jingle was played, it came across rather loudly. That's because Eve was not fully focused. She was out the door. Packing her backpack or whatever you call it. In my opinion, there's just too much extraneous music accompanying otherwise completely listenable spoken word programs such as yours. And for no good reason as far as I can tell.

This never used to be the case. I suspect it's the unwanted influence of advertising. Right. I like the program. I've been listening as far back as when Jane once said, I've moved up into the all-encompassing apple catcher pant and Fee once observed of a champagne and tequila combo. It's got top notes of naff and bottom notes of bombast. Irresistible, says Pearl. It's good sometimes just to be reminded of your better lines. I mean, that was a good one.

Yours was a great one. No, no, no, darling. No, nothing. Pearl, thank you. Yes. I mean, look, we take all points of view, but for the moment, we're quite enjoying our jingle-tastic life. So they're here for the time being. Yeah. I think there's an enormous amount of creativity has gone into it.

There has, and we're incredibly grateful. And over the weekend, if you want to qualify for a jingle on Monday's bumper email only edition, you might want to get thinking. If you're a long time listener, first time email or you could just lie. We don't really mind. We don't test it. It's Jane and Fee at Times.Radio. Now this one has to remain anonymous for reasons that will become abundantly clear. Mr Blobby was my boss.

You wouldn't want to go public, would you? There was indeed a Blobby land known as Crinkley Bottom. It was based in Somerset at the former home of Audrey Forbes Hamilton. Now that's to the man abhorrent, isn't it? Penelope Keith. Yes. I had a summer job working at Crinkley Bottom during my years at university. I had various roles, face painting, the ease of doing Mr. B compared to when the wee ones

wanted to be an exotic animal. The relief when an amateur face painter hears that their customer would like Mr. Blobby. It's just pink with some black blobs on it. Pink with yellow blobs. Yellow blobs, sorry. And working in the shop selling more pink tat that you can ever imagine. If you could put images of Mr. or Mrs. Blobby on it, we sold it. Yellow blobs, sorry. And working in the shop selling more pink tat that you can ever imagine. If you could put images of Mr. or Mrs. Blobby on it, we sold it. Pencil cases, lunch boxes,

rain max. I can see how the bizarre creation that was Mr. B could have funded Noel's Paradise in New Zealand. Blobby Blobby Blobby, as he used to say, and our anonymous emailer has actually requested a Kiwi accent for that. So here we go. Blobby, blobby, blobby. Well, if you're listening in Dunedin, let us know whether that hits the mark. Keep doing what you're doing. You're the best podcast out there. Thank you very much indeed. Right. You know earlier in the week, went for comedic effect. You mistook my email about rescuing a hedgehog for taking a man in from the cold and buffing him up. It was funny. That was on Tuesday's edition. If you've missed any this week, I'd go back. I wouldn't bother with this one. I'd go back to Tuesday because that was funny. Jill has emailed from Hedgehog Bottom Hospital and Rescue.

Right, sorry. Jill has emailed from Hedgehog Bottom Hospital and Rescue which is based in Berkshire. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. It's a hospital for hedgehogs with difficult bottoms. Look, I don't know. I'm determined to take this seriously. It's from... well, it says here Jill from Hedgehog Bottom Hospital and Rescue. If you've never thought about hedgehogs having a bottom before, let's face it, you are now. Some of your correspondence emails that you've read out have worried me, particularly, well

yes they worry us, particularly the woman in New Zealand who rescued and flea treated a hedgehog. Well we thought that was just very kind. And then kept it in her bath before she released it. Um, Jill points out that hedgehog fleas are species specific and they don't transfer to humans. Uh, giving hedgehogs over-the-counter flea treatment can be fatal. Uh, they actually need very specific meds.

Any form of rescue and rehab should really be undertaken by a rescue centre where rehabbers have the proper knowledge and skills to successfully treat a hedgehog. They should also never be fed bread and milk. That really is an old wives tale. Hedgehogs are actually lactose intolerant and milk can cause diarrhoea and bread has little nutritional value. Gosh, now do you think that actually foxes might be lactose intolerant and that's why Eves is shitting across her garden all the time? Might well be the problem. But I mean she basically says you need to go to a hedgehog expert. Don't be an amateur hedgehog helper. You know, know your business, know your onions.

Seek out the experts. I'm determined to take this seriously. It is interesting isn't it that that whole business of bread and milk it's like a cure-all for almost every creature that roams the earth but somebody offered me a plate of bread and milk up to them where they can shove it. Yeah. Sounds disgusting. Two things that have been discarded by most of the metropolitan elite at the moment as well. Well they might have oat milk with them. What would they have as a replacement for bread? Well, they'd have a gluten-free loaf, wouldn't they? Oh, I suppose they probably would, yeah. Yeah.

Sourdough at a push. We've got quite a lot of oat milk, oat milk botherers on our team at the moment. Well, I'm an oat milk botherer. Oh, are you? I genuinely, I like it. I find it very... How long is it since I've bought you a drink? Don't be silly.

You're very generous with your coffee rounds, actually. But there's something very... I find there's something really horrible now about bovine milk in a coffee. Oh really? You can't take it? I don't like it. Oh. No, it's got a cheesy whiff about it, doesn't it? I like that. I actually, if I can't think of anything else to eat and I'm home alone, I still just have full fat milk and cereal.

It's lovely. OK. I suppose that's like bread and milk, isn't it? I haven't had a bowl of cereal. No joke. For about 30 years. What? Maybe even longer. You see, I'm still chomping my way through my favourite cereal that I bought on my day trip to Lille. So it really gives that. I love it.

I can't stand it. It was one thing that I really struggled with giving my kids. There's something about it. I just think it's such a massive con. If you grind down a bowl of corned flakes, that's not, you know, corned flakes. Corned flakes. Or frosties or anything like that or Corn flakes or frosties or anything like that or rice thing midgiggies, rice crispies are the worst. Grind down a bowl and you've got that much. You've got something the size of a hapenny bit as actual food. It's madness. What are you paying for?

So what are they? They're the kind of sweepings from the corn factory floor. Yeah, I mean, it's just pumped up air with added sugar and salt in it. I think it's just a complete con, Jay. Come on kids, have a hard boiled egg. Yeah, something like that. Dear Katriona and Felix, this comes from Janine in Germany who loves the new jingles. So I think we might assume that Janine is a... Oh no, no mind. Janine is a... Oh no, no mind. Long time listener, first time inela. Welcome Janine. So slick. And a-longe for the equipment there and got there eventually.

Apparently, had I been a boy, I would have been named Otto after the eminent conductor, Oto Klemperer, as my father was singing Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, the famous Ode to Joy, with the Philharmonia Chorus at the Royal Festival Hall on the 30th of June 1970 conducted by said Otto. I was born the following evening, much to my mother's disdain, because the British tennis player Roger Taylor had reached the semi-finals, which she was trying to watch with great excitement as I was anticipating my arrival. The midwife was horrified how late she turned up, only just making it into the delivery room in time to have me. Whether life would have been better as an otter, who knows? My would-be namesake looks like a right grumpy old sod, so maybe I can be grateful for my life as a Janine."

Well Janine, I'm with you on that. I mean he really does, you know, it's tempestuous doesn't he? Oh well conductors are. Very artistic though, very artistic, very moody. Goodness, moody and maverick and yes I bet he had some, well we don't know. He may have had his struggled, I've struggled. I'm very conscious that Sophie might still be listening and she doesn't want to be offended by any idiotic remark I make today. So we don't know Otto's full story. No, we don't know well done sister So I'll stand back from that but can we just say congratulations Janine to your mum? For trying to hold you in as long as possible to get to the end of Roger Taylor's match

Did he win? I don't know. I mean, I'm amazed but you know, she hadn't managed to do that Would she have been allowed to call you Roger? Oh that would have been nice. Wouldn't it? Or not. Not a lot of Rogers born I don't think in 2025 but if you are one or you're about to have a baby boy and you can't wait to give him the moniker Roger let us know all about it. That's so true isn't it? I haven't met a Roger for years. There's an obvious lie. I'm not going to do it. Jenny says, I had to write as the recent topic of mixing up meds reminded me of a story from my pediatric A&E days where I worked as a nurse. In the midst of hay fever season, a mum came in with her two teenage lads.

They both suffered badly from hay fever, so they were on daily antihistamines. However, mum hadn't put her specks on before dishing out the meds that morning and she'd given them each one of her pills, her contraceptive pills. Can't remember how long it lasted before they realised, but I remember the looks of pain and discomfort they had, followed by the relief when I was able to confirm that there'd be no ill effect. There wouldn't be any, why would anybody, any male react violently against one dose of the contraceptive pill? Well I guess there's something that you might exaggerate in your imagination about the fact that some female hormones have suddenly entered your body.

Because we had a fantastic email once didn didn't we, from a lovely lady whose husband had accidentally sat on her HRT patch and had taken himself off to the doctor just in case something awful was about to happen to him. Before he began to take an interest in quilting. Yes. Or watch one of those films on Channel 5 in the afternoon. Yeah, or take to the housework. Yes, or buff down the oven. Maybe just cry silently

in the laundry room. All of these things are hobbies popular amongst females. Jenny goes on to say that she has an internationally recognized qualification as a lactation consultant and wearing this hat she just wants to tell us about the most common reason that babies feed frequently on flights it's to equalize the pressure in their ears the old suck swallow action keeps their eustachian tubes clear. What? Eustachian. E-U-S, so pretend you're at Euston Station. E-U-S-T, action, Eust action. Okay, never heard of that before. Every time I go to the station from now on, I'll think I'm carrying out Eust action. In fact, I'm going there tomorrow.

I took a baby on a flight a couple of times, V, and miserable, absolutely miserable, for every other passenger as well as for them and indeed for me. Yeah, no, I'm with you on that. We had a terrible one. In fact, it was only flying back from Aberdeen. Aberdeen! Barely in the air. Well, that's what we thought. So we got on board and I think my son would only, I mean, he was still breastfeeding. He would only have been about 10 months old. Obviously, we'd been up to see mum and we got caught in a terrible storm and I hadn't taken anything else with me.

I mean, I'd taken kind of one nappy or whatever, everything else was in the hole because it should only have been a kind of 45-minute flight. And we hit a storm, we had an aborted landing in Birmingham, then we had to land in Manchester. It was really, really bad, Jane. And of course, during that entire time, the most soothing position for a baby to be in is attached to you. Yeah.

But it's, you know, by the time you've had an aborted landing, you know, prayed to a God that you've previously been a little bit cynical about, it was just absolutely exhausting. It was terrible. Actually, there were quite a few small kids on the flight as well. Actually when the turbulence is bad or when you hit just bumpy weather, it is frightening. I think you'd have to be pretty sanguine. I mean, ludicrous, the other side of sanguine not to be discombobulated by that. Yeah, I agree. And I think that air travel is one of those strange things where the statistics never reassure you. Oh no and the statistics are very real and it's properly safe. It doesn't make any difference your state of mind.

I'm afraid it does. When you hit a storm. Right I would like to congratulate Morag who just wanted to let us know that she's spoken to her 17 year old daughter who's on a school trip to London. She said that she must give up her seat on the tube to older people. I have to say, Morag tells us, she just looked at me, rolled her eyes and told me of course she would. It's good to know that my constant nagging about manners over the years has sunk in. I don't have a postcard but I thought you might like the attached early morning picture of Portobello Beach in Edinburgh. Beach getting cleaned, some wild swimmers and rowers out also. North Berwick just as lovely. I hope that everybody who wants to come to North Berwick has managed to get tickets. We're

at the Fringe by the Sea Festival on August the 8th. Judy Murray will be our guest. We will hang around afterwards and say hello to you all because I know that a lot of you are coming from far and wide and we're very grateful for that. We'll have a laugh, won't we? And if you don't want to come, still consider coming. Yes, of course. Or at least go with a friend who really does want to go. Don't be miserable. There's no need to be nasty.

But look at that beach, Jane. Is that beautiful? It does look absolutely beautiful. It was really lovely to see that. So the raging heat in the south of England has slightly cooled off, but it's back over the next couple of days. I think it's 33 in London town on Monday. Right. Oh, we're both going to be in wonderful moods. Well, I've got my new air conditioning unit arriving.

Excellent. So hopefully I will have had a night's sleep, because I'm like a bear with a sore head if I don't get my eight hours. Yeah, and also I don't want you to have to come to work in those shorts. Oh. Ever. Ever. A photograph of Annie cheered me up enormously this morning as well.

That came in from Megan who was telling us all about Annie and her remarkable ability to do poos in the right places and all of that kind of stuff. Annie is Megan's dog and she just looks gorgeous. She's an absolutely jet black Labrador. Yeah, she's got one of those lovely, I don't know, trustworthy faces. Yeah, she's got one of those big thick heads. Decent. Yeah, that's the adjective that I reach for. Thank you very much for that image. This is interesting from a listener who we won't name, but she says, following on from the conversation about the challenges of having adult children

and grandchildren living overseas, we found the key is in packets of biscuits. Now, when there's nothing particular to say, or alternatively, when there are just too many things to say, you don't know where to begin, two of my adult children live with their families in Israel, so that's definitely been the challenge for us in the last couple of years. We've made an effort to share the small details on a regular basis. For example, I bought a new flavour

of chocolate digestives today, they're really yummy. Subtext, unwritten, how much time have you spent in your bomb shelter today? How are the grandchildren coping? How are you coping? How is anyone coping? Or a pretty purple flower opened in the park today. Subtext simply I'm thinking of you and miss you terribly but it doesn't help to say that out loud. We worked out that if you wait till there's something important to say we might not message for ages at a time but by sharing the little things we do feel in close contact. It's even become shorthand so my daughter might say Ben just gave Sophie a kiss on her head for no reason have a biscuit or I'll say I'm hanging up a towel wash have some crumbs. It's no substitute for having them close by and there are times like

this week that I would do anything to give them a hug but it does keep the connection close. And she goes on to say thank you for having Rob Rinder on talking about the current situation it really helps to hear a person of his stature express what is going on as a nightmare resonated so loudly. To be honest the last 18 months have been a very hard time to be Jewish in the UK. I'm sorry to hear that. There's so much suffering going on in the Middle East right now and it's really important that we hear a range of perspectives and thank you very much for yours and I totally get that heavily coded interaction that you've established with your family members in Israel because I don't see how you can operate and keep your sanity without doing things like that actually, just sharing those little nuggets of family life,

existence that make things just a bit more bearable. And that's where modern technology really is a treat, isn't it? Because you can just ping a message or a picture and we would never have known so many stories in previous generations, would we? So we thank the WhatsApp for that occasionally. Yeah. But we also thank the old-fashioned postcard too. What a link. I tell you what, Fie. What? I don't know. It's easy to just say things like, you've not lost it or yes, I heard what you did there and I loved it. This one comes in from Katie who says, hello from the sub Antarctic island of South Georgia. Here the many millions of penguins, seals and elephant seals far outnumber the human population of nine, just nine people. Nine people?

Yeah. It's only a, is it a rock? Just a bit of a rock? I don't know, well I don't know. South Georgia, near the Falklands. Yeah, but maybe a huge expanse of land but only has nine people on it. Your podcast in both its forms has offered me a much appreciated connection to home, knowing that my lovely mum is listening too. Sometimes you even mention the cultural beacon of southern England, Basingstoke. You will no doubt receive this long after the postcard phase, but I felt obliged to make you aware that your fish-poaching and carrot-chuckney and urban fox dilemmas are making waves in far-flung places. As I write,

we're approaching midwinter's day. The late dawn light is creeping over snowy mountains which are tinge deep purple, soon to turn candy floss pink in the bay icebergs and burgee bits, an actual technical term, crackle and pop, not dissimilar to a bowl of cereal with warm wishes from a chilly place. That is Katie incoming. Well I don't think we're ever going to get over our postcard phase. It has diminished a tiny bit from the hundreds that were coming in. But if you're on your holidays, never say the other word, if you're on your holidays and you fancy to drop us a line, we're going

to keep the wall going. It'll grow and grow and grow. I really like the wall. Oh, I love the wall. It cheers me up every day. I mean, you're right, we're not getting a deluge anymore, we're getting a high quality trickle and can I say that very much is one of those trickles. Well, it's very good. What an extraordinary environment to be in. Do we know why she's there?

I don't know, maybe she fell out. Are you lost? Are you trying to get somewhere else? I suspect that she might be part of some kind of a research team. I mean she may have gone there on holiday, I don't know. I don't know how many people do. But I mean I'm amazed she left Basingstoke, very few people would ever want to because you're right, it's a cultural beacon. So do keep them coming.

It's Jane and Fee, Times Radio, One London Bridge, SE19GF, and United Kingdom as well, don't forget that. Oh no, don't. Anne says, now there is no jingle for this, but I actually wish there was. I am a long time listener and failed correspondent twice. It's tricky. Wack, wack, wack, waaah. But it's alright, you've made it now.

So who knows, this email might not float your boat either. No, it's floated mine. I thought I'd chip in with my experience of listening to AI bots rather than real people after you mentioned the loss of future jobs and television, etc. and teaching. At work, we have masses of mandatory training to wade through. Some of the corporate stuff is voiced by AI. It's much harder to listen to, maintain concentration and understand AI voices than the bits with a live human. AI just sounds wrong. Weird intonation occasionally, wrong bits of words or sentences stressed.

After listening to AI it was a relief to hear a human, like when you're slogging up a hill on a long walk and then it flattens out, it suddenly seems a lot easier. The thought of having to listen to the news via AI or children listening to droning bots is absolutely horrific. Yeah, I agree, Anne. Well, I think we both agree. Have you ever had to listen to an AI bot that you're aware of? I mean I've interacted with them knowingly, usually when trying desperately to get a doctor's appointment. Well I was going to say, in the doctor's surgery you're called into the doctor's room now

by an AI bot, which is just funny. What do you mean? So you know, instead of just waiting in the reception room and maybe, you know, the doctor comes in and says, you know, Fiona Glover, your turn now. Right. It'll be up on a screen. And, you know, I'm always feed wherever I go. So I get called into the doctors as Fai Glover by the AR bot.

Right. That's a bit rude, isn't it? That's really rude. And after reading that, though, this morning, Jane, I typed in the following requests to a well-known large language learning model. I'd like to make a podcast, this is me asking ChatGPT, in the style of Offer with Jane and Fee. So could you provide me with five topics they might discuss on that?

Have you really done this? This is work, this is research. It is. And thank you very much for your email. You've inspired us both to just think in my case, but in Fee's case she's done some work. But this is terrible, Jane, because we have been well and truly scraped. We've been scraped. We have been scraped.

So go on, explain. So ChatGPT comes back with, absolutely. Offer with Jane and Fee is known for its witty, informal and relatable tone, blending current events, cultural commentary, personal anecdotes and a bit of irreverent fun. I always prefer reverent fun myself. I went out with him. Before he left the priesthood. No.

Honestly, you have to ruin everything. Right, Carol. If you're aiming for a similar vibe, here are five topics they might dive into and that you could use as well. So we've got the strange world of modern etiquette. Is it ever okay to leave a party without saying goodbye? Oh God. Topic we've done. Midlife madness, in at number two, hot flushes versus cold plunges. Our supplements just expensive, we done that one too. News but not as you know it. Why do world leaders keep falling asleep at global summits? We've talked about that too.

Books we pretended to read in book club, that's where book club started from. Fashion crimes and closet confessions, the return of low-rise jeans, is that a hate crime? Something that you actually said on a podcast. And when I did that this morning, I felt sad for us, for our listeners, for everybody involved in this because somebody's company who wants to make money has created a bot that has listened to our podcast and just chucked it back at us and that's not why we're doing it, is it? It's not. It's not why we're doing it.

No. It's right. We do enjoy getting paid. Don't get me wrong. It's not a charitable service. But it's just weird, Jane. It's a bit of all of us, all our listeners, all of those emails, all of those funny things just now belongs to everybody. It's odd. What do you think? I think it's chilling. But yes, my overwhelming feeling is just sadness. Yeah.

Oh, I know. I'm sorry about that. That's, yeah. Thanks for emailing, Anne. But we need to carry on talking about this, don't we? Because so much of this has happened whilst we've been looking the other way. And I mean, that's the whole point of, you know, why people write at the top of AI of left companies, send open letters to people, you know, they've all been saying it's really, really, really jumped a shark already. Yes. You know, let's try and draw attention to it. And we all kind of went,

oh, it'd be all right. Well, much as we have done with stuff like internet porn and so, you know, it's just there's too much. So we just don't bother with it at all. We just decide, oh, I'll just, I'll just pick my feet for a bit and watch a bit of telly whilst scrolling on my phone. I won't think too much about that. Fiddling whilst Rome burns, Jo. Claire says, long time listener, second time emailer. Catching up with the podcast whilst recovering from a hysterectomy. Hope it's going alright, Claire. It turns out binge listening to you was the perfect companion to my new life lying horizontal in huge Bridget Jones knickers.

Can I just say as you know Claire, because I've said it for years, I've always been in another big, big Bridget Jones apple catching pants and it's a world of comfort. You're very, very welcome to it Claire. Despite brilliant family support, it's been a lonely old road. There's still a massive hush-hush around women's health. But you've kept me company, cheered me up, and given me a few belly laughs, which are slightly hazardous post-op.

Thank you for being unfiltered. Yes, it's almost like. Claire is real, by the way. She's not AI generated. But this is why, yeah, you just read this. It's all going weird. Yes, it is. Onto the topic of male radiologists, she says, doing mammograms.

It reminded me of a very up close and personal moment I wasn't quite prepared for. Picture this, me, fresh from surgery, trying to figure out how to get out of bed and toddle off to the loo without splitting open like a piñata, when in walks a young, wide-eyed male nurse. He looked about 12 and equally traumatized I couldn't move without help and he had clearly drawn the short straw on the rotor Let's just say we bonded over catheters Yeah, well this young man

Had elected to become a nurse Claire and by the way shout out to nurses everywhere Because it's a tough job and I'm in awe of anyone prepared to take it on. I don't think he'll have been as rabbit trapped in the headlights as you might think and he's going to be helping quite a lot of people to the loo after surgery so in the future if he stands and stands can stand the pace gonna last the place so don't be don't be worried about that. But I think I've only ever had in terms of operations caesareans, I've never had anything else. So I don't know what it's like, but it is quite difficult to make that first trip to the loo, isn't

it, after surgery, whatever you've had. And the catheter thing is, yeah, it's, the catheter needs to come out at some point and it's a very intimate business. But Claire, anyway, I hope you're okay. I love her PS. Is that the one about her sister? Yes, sorry, you're right. Love Claire. PS, Helen says hi too.

She's the smug one who still has her uterus. Yes, if you're going to bed tonight with your uterus, you can have a little laugh to yourself about all the joy it's brought you over the years. Well, the thing is, some people I know, it's like a whole new life post-hysterectomy, they love it. So I hope it's that way for you, Claire. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Get well soon. This one comes from Jess, it'll be the last one from me. I will never forget the headline in the news of the world in 92, the year the

Queen had made her awkward speech about the royal family's terribly difficult year. Some poor fella had woken in the night with his piles itching badly and had groped into the cupboard for his preparation H pile soothing cream. Unfortunately the tube he had lighted on in the dark was super glue. When he woke up in the morning his cheeks were stuck together and he had to call an ambulance. I feel that the end of that sentence is unnecessary. I'm glad he did. We're all glad he did. The news of the world apparently called it the second Annus Horribilis of the year. Now I don't know whether or not that's a true story. My immediate thought was if you tried to, you got super glue on your hands, your hand would be stuck to your bottom two. Particulars.

Yes. Thank you, Jess, for sending that in. Yeah. No, thank you. Can you beat breastfeeding at an employment tribunal? This is so far the least likely place to find yourself breastfeeding. It's from Anonymous. I was in and out of the room where the tribunal was taking place to breastfeed my six-week-old son. I won, by the way. My boss had sacked me the day I told her. Her, I was pregnant. There's the sisterhood for you in action. Well done, Anonymous. Congratulations to you and I'm glad you won. Yeah, very glad you won.

Anthony Scaramucci, former director of communications for Donald Trump, pretty briefly. I think it was about 11 days he did at the White House. He's now much better known as the co-host of The Rest is Politics US alongside the very, very impressive Katy Kay, who is, according to Anthony, just the poshest woman alive. Now, Anthony is due to speak at the Chalk Festival this evening. His subject is Trump, US politics and me. And I talked to Mr Scaramucci just before the US defence secretary, Pete Hegseth, told the press that the US Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth told the press that the US bombing of Iran's nuclear facilities had set back Iran's nuclear program an untold number of years. I asked Anthony Scaramucci what he was expecting to hear from Hegseth.

Well, I mean, listen, first of all, we're all readers of Shakespeare. Doubt does protest too much. So if the strike was successful, we've had presidents that the phrase was speak softly and carry a big stick, but these guys are overcompensating for something. And so it would just make everybody in the international community, the journalists wonder why are they being so bombastic about it? If the strike was successful, it was successful and let's move on. Let's hope that we don't have an escalation because I think that would be bad for the world and bad for the United States. Some people point to Hegseth as being the least qualified member of a pretty underwhelming Trump cabinet. What do you think? Sorry, you mean to imply that doing push-ups with the troops doesn't make you qualify to

be the defense secretary? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I think I am. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, obviously, look, I mean, listen, I know Pete a long time. I work with him at Fox News.

I have nothing against Pete. When they were slurring him about his drinking and they said he was drunk at my restaurant, he was not. So I told the truth about that. But he is very unqualified for that job. It's a technical job, it requires getting through a lot of bureaucracy, it also requires being tough on our defense contractors. It's not just a recruiting job but remember the president is casting these people more than he's trying to select the right people

for their qualifications and so he likes the looks of Pete Hegseth. He likes his body fat composition and he sees him on TV and he likes his television appearances. But I will say this because you know this as a journalist, when he's speaking, when Secretary Hessegg is speaking, he looks like he's out of his league. He's out of his depth. You can see a lack of confidence in what he's saying, even his hand movements and the way he's gesticulating indicates that. So yeah, no, he's unqualified for that and everybody knows that and Trump probably knows

that, but he doesn't care because he likes the looks of them. The NATO summit was notable and we don't want to get too obsessed with this. This daddy thing. It's terrible. It's diabolical to many people's ears. Is it just simply necessary? This is the way grown people, grown men like Mark Rutter have got to play Donald Trump. Well, listen, I completely disagree. Prime Minister Carney doesn't play Donald Trump like that. The president's into, for some

reason, humiliation rituals. For some reason he's decided that it makes him more of an alpha male if he can get people that have a power position inferior to his to bow down to him, cow down to him, be obsequious with him. And I find it ridiculous. And by the way, and I've said this on my podcast i'll say this on your radio show

he laughs at these people so uh... uh... mister rote that's how you pronounce his name i mean he's trying to embarrasses her okay he put that text out to embarrass you he's literally sitting on air force one laughing about you and so you're there telling your friends well i, I need to do this and I need to cow tab them.

Actually, you don't. You know, now listen, the president does have a point though, and let's be fair to the president, we have to increase our defense expenditures as an alliance. I think our generals want that. I think your generals frankly want that. And so I don't like the way the president went about it. You know, general Petraeus calls it the angry man theory.

I don't think that reflects well on the United States to go about it the way the president is going about it, but we do need those defense levels to be increased. And so hopefully that mission is accomplished, but it doesn't have to be accomplished with the daddy thing, which is absolutely revolting and it's the meaning of the people in those positions and knock it off you know. Call Mark Carney and Mark Carney will teach you how to deal with a bully and

just knock it off. The fact is though that many of these Western leaders like our own Sir Keir Starmer who've made this defense spending pledge have got a hell of a job at home convincing the electorate and also finding the money to go about it. I mean the government here is facing all kinds of questions about its welfare bill. They're trying to cut their welfare budget. This defense spending thing is going to turn into quite the challenge for so many, so many members of NATO. What do they do about it? Well it's very hard for me to you know intervene and opine on the UK internal politics or even

the European situation. I guess I would just say this, as somebody that's observed this thing for a long time, we have existential threats. The free world needs to stick together. There's 5.7 billion people living under some level of authoritarianism, and we have to be prepared to defend ourselves, and we have to be prepared to defend ourselves, and we can't be caught off guard. And so I think that's got to be a resonating message. Good leadership from Prime Minister Stormer or other leaders in Europe is to guide the electorate to that.

You know, there are certain leaders that are thermostats where they just display the heat that's in the room from their electorate and there's others that are thermometers where they're trying to get you down to where they're going. They have to set the course coordinates, if you will, and guide the people to the right decision and listen, you know, just read the front page of the London Times, you'll get a sense for what the existential threats are. You don't have to read the prime Minister's daily brief or the presidential daily brief to know the threats that we're under. And if you want a world peaceful for the free world we're gonna have to do these things and I think it's a priori and he

has to explain that to the people in the United Kingdom. So let's talk positive about Donald Trump and about the way his behavior actually could well have a positive impact about the way his behavior actually could well have a positive impact on the way the world works. Some people don't like his style, yet we take that. But what if in five years from now, Iran is a different country? Maybe it even has given up its idea of destroying Israel. That isn't beyond the possibility that lies before us, is it? It's not and we can give the credit to the president for aiding that

but I would say that there's an inevitability to that anyway. You know the regime has a 20% approval rating, the theocracy is dying, they've underserved their people, the sanctions that have been applied to the theocracy have crippled them. I think they overplayed their hand, the sanctions that have been applied to the theocracy have crippled them. I think they overplayed their hand with the Hamas proxy war. October 7th probably went deeper into Israel than even the Iranians thought that they were going to get. More damage was done to the Israelis, more casualties, and a result of which the counter-strike that the Israelis have put on over the last two years, while not surprising to people like me,

I think it caught a lot of people in Iran and other places off guard. And I think that there's a story here where that regime could fall. We don't know where the supreme leader is the last seven days he's absent. If that regime falls, the real question is what happens? You know, unfortunately when regimes have changed in the past in the Middle East over the last seven days he's absent. If that regime falls, the real question is what happens. You know, unfortunately, when regimes have changed in the past in the Middle East over the last 20 years, hasn't been a great outcome for the West. You know, we fought 20 years in Afghanistan for regime change, and we went from the Taliban to the Taliban. Blood and treasure lost in Afghanistan, no real meaningful change in regime. If anything, things got worse for us. So we have to be careful with these things, which is one of the reasons why I was against

the strikes. But if you're telling me that they're going to work, I'm happy to say that I'm wrong about that. But I usually would like to go with diplomacy first. And the regime feels weak. Even Vladimir Putin, who's a friend of theirs, recognizes that there could be changes there. And you see, he's been fairly quiet about these strikes. Well, he's not said anything, has he?

No, exactly. But he has said one thing. He said that there are two million Russian speaking, either expats or citizens of the state of Israel. And so he's mindful of Israel's security issues because he feels that there's a lot of Russians in Israel. And so he's mindful of Israel's security issues because he feels that there's a lot of Russians in Israel. And so he's mindful of that. And again, you know, I believe in Israel's right to exist. We can debate about what they're doing in Gaza. There's things about that.

I understand why there's repercussions, negative repercussions against them for some of those things. But again, I'm also somebody that saw the IDF 45 minute video and I shared that video with a lot of executives in New York and a lot of college administrators. People need to understand the level of animalistic violence that they faced on October 7th and they do have a right to defend themselves.

So what's that issue now? Are these proxies from Iran being annihilated? And are we going to subdue that regime? And I think the answer to that is yes. And if Donald Trump has been a part of that, then he deserves credit for it. But again, I would prefer a different style, because we're still the big kid on the block, especially as it relates to the military. And I think when you come across with the bellicosity of a bully, I think it hurts America's standing

in the world and it makes people trust us less. And so why do we need that? MAGA doesn't like foreign wars, doesn't want forever wars, but here we are. Is there a split in the movement or are most fully signed up MAGA members prepared to go with whatever their idol Donald Trump does. So I think it's the latter. You know, I think there was some discussion before the bombs dropped.

The president said something that people should really listen to. They said, well, what are the policies of MAGA? And the president responded, whatever I want them to be. And so that's a full on personality cult. They may disagree, but they've been subdued. They'll disagree either quietly now, or they'll fall in line with him. But this portends a very interesting future for the Republican party, because there's nobody else in the Republican party

that can galvanize that group. The president is the most famous person in the world other than the pope. He's on the world stage as a political figure the last 10 years, and he casts a very big shadow in the Republican party. It's his party now. He decapitated the traditional Republicans and installed his MAGA leadership. But the real issue will be, particularly after the midterms, which are only 18

months away, the real issue is going to be who's going to run, who's going to lead that party. And the short answer is there's nobody in that party that has his cult of personality. And so I think that there will be a civil war in that party. And it'll be interesting to see what the outcome is there. But, you know, listen, I mean, I know people think he's invincible, but he is 79 years old. He is a lame duck president in the United States and he is a decaying political asset. By November of 2026, those Republicans that really dislike him are going to start turning on him because he won't have the political gravity after those midterms. You mentioned his age and I think you thought, I listen regularly to the rest of this politics

US, and you did think that his reason for leaving the G7, you hinted that it might be related to some kind of health issue. Well he doesn't look well to me. Look I know the guy a long time, he's walking with a limp, he's stumbling over a lot of his words. I mean, he was dropping papers when he was talking there with Prime Minister Stormer. He was talking about doing a deal with the EU, when in fact he was doing a deal with the UK. And those are either signs of old age or they're signs of a health issue going on. And I think it's important because what we learned in the Biden administration, uh, we ignored it or we took the spin of their staff. You know,

when the, when the president showed up, president Biden showed up at the 80th anniversary of the Normandy invasion last June. And he was wandering about, we said, Oh, you know, that's AI and all this sort of stuff. And he's sharp as attack and all this stuff, but he wasn't. So I think it's important that we hold President Trump to the same standard of evaluation. This whole Israel-Iran conflict, it's had real performative elements to it, hasn't it? And while we've all been interested in it and watching it and listening to stuff about it. Gaza continues and Russia and Ukraine are still not at peace

and Putin is still doing what he wants. What concerns you the most? Well, let's take them, I think we have to take them separately. So I'm actually optimistic about outcomes in the Middle East. I think that some of these countries want to embrace the Abraham Accords. There's reports that even Syria may want to embrace those accords. It would be in their economic interest to do so.

Of course, the Saudis were talking about doing that before the October 7 terrorist attack. So I think there's a high likelihood that we get to some type of ceasefire armistice, if will in the Middle East and I think they'll be I think I think people are getting tired I think there'll be some hope there and Again, the president in his first term with the Abraham Accords does deserve credit for that Jared Kushner and Mike Pompeo deserve credit for that The other issue that you're referencing which is the Ukrainian-Russian War I think there's

going to be a problem there because I don't know what it is, but Vladimir Putin has a hold on Donald Trump. So none of us could figure it out in the first term, still can figure it out now. When he criticizes Putin, he does it in sort of a light way. He does it in a dry, funny way. He never does anything as it relates to additional sanctions or providing more military aid. And you don't have to be a rocket scientist

in security intelligence to know with the right supplies, the Ukrainians can well defend themselves and push back the Russian army. And they've done a real big damage to the Russian army, way more than other people had anticipated. So I would like to see that bloodshed end. But until the president either goes against Vladimir Putin or Vladimir Putin himself capitulates, I think we're going to be in a further stalemate.

So I'm more troubled by what's going on in Ukraine right now than the Middle East. And let me just make this last point. I think it's an important one. If Putin capitulates, that will be the end of his term. He wants to go out like Joe Stalin. He wants to die in that seat peacefully. He doesn't want to get ousted from that seat. And I think as a Russian leader, I don't see what option he has for withdrawal there. So it's going to be a long, drawn out battle from here. Yeah. You're not a fan of JD Vance. Are you? You know, listen, I read his book. He's a very thoughtful person. He wrote that book at a time where he wasn't famous So he didn't have a ghostwriter. I

Think he's a knowledgeable guy, but I think that he's a political opportunist like Marco Rubio I don't even think they believe some of the stuff that they're doing, but their power and ambition, their needs for power and ambition have precluded their execution of their own principles. And so they've morphed a lot. And I think America is probably going to need somebody that has a principle-based attitude towards things, irrespective of what's going on in the moment in politics. And so the first time I met Vice President Vance

was at a Mitt Romney event in 2018 where he was calling President Trump Hitler. He said he was America's Hitler. And so he's disavowed that in order for his ambition. I get that, because I've been, you know, I got my 11 day PhD in how Washington works, right? So I know what these people are like. But I'm not worried about Vance because Trump has already put him halfway through the woodchipper

and Vance will have very little of a political future by the end of this term. And if you don't believe me, ask Mike Pence. You know, I can give you Mike Pence's cell phone number, call Mike and ask him what Trump did to him. You know, Trump's going to do the same thing to Vance. How is Mike Pence, by the way? I think Mike Pence is a great guy. He just received the Profiles in Courage Award from the Kennedy Library, recognizing that

he went up against the president on the 6th of January. He voted for the procedural application of the Electoral College vote. The president, of course, didn't want him to do that There you know, I mean, I think this is astonishing that we cover this stuff up But there was an insurrection going on on the 6th of January and Mike Pence said I'm not having it I I believe in this system. I believe in the Constitution He's out of the political mainstream now because Trump is still in power. And these guys coded it over.

Ted Cruz, life was being threatened. Josh Hawley, life was being threatened. And the Congressional Police Force was defending them on the 6th of January. And we have Trump on tape fomenting that violence. But of course, that indictment has gone away because to the victor goes to spoils in American politics. All of those processes have been dropped and we've got to deal with President Trump for the next three and a half years but let's not forget what he did. And I applaud Mike Pence for his courage to

do the right thing for the American people. Yeah I mean back to Trump and his health, is he going to complete the term, do you think? No, listen, I don't know. I'm not a doctor, but I can tell you one thing about him. He's a willful guy. And you know, the bad people live a long time, you know that. Only the good die young, Jan. You know that. So I mean, I think the guy, I don't know, probably he could outlive you and me, which is sort of a scary thought, given our relative youth. And this guy, he's a force of nature so I'm assuming he's going to complete the term.

Yeah, I'm not having him outliving you and me. I'm sorry, I'm just not going to let that happen. I don't want that to happen either. Trust me, I sort of pray that that doesn't happen. Just very briefly, when you're in the UK, what is the question you are most frequently asked? Is he going to run for a third term? I think many people in the UK are paralyzed with fear that we're not going to get rid of this guy or he's going to start canceling elections and so I don't think that that's going to happen. It's not because he doesn't have willing sycophants that would let him do something like that. I just think the money in our American political system

is going to stop him. There are lobbyists, there are CEOs around America that are paying their lobbyists right now saying, hey, figure out a way to contain Trump, figure out a way to get them to knock it off and go to people on his staff, go to congressmen and senators. And so there's a lots of different types of checks and balances in the United States, not just the court system and the other branches of government, but there is a very strong lobbying influence, very strong money influence, and the money, and again I'm a Wall Streeter for 36 years, the money is towards a return to some level of

normalcy. So I think he's not going to end up even trying something like that. I think it'll be stopped and put to a halt, but that is the number one question I get when I'm in the UK. We'd say Anthony, he says Anthony, we're right he's wrong, his surname is Scaramucci and we're all agreed on how to say that aren't we? We are and he's always very straight talking so it's always nice to have a chat with him. He is appearing at the Chalk Festival giving a talk called Trump, US politics and me. That's quite a lot he could get out there isn't it?

Yeah I think that'll be a packed tent. Can we do a couple of very quick parish notices if you'd like to crack on with reading the book club book which is Leonard and Hungry Paul by Ronan Tessian then we'll get to that in I think probably two weeks time. If you'd like to add a song on the Spotify playlist all you have to do is just mention the song as a PS on any email that you send in and we will start building that from here. It'll be a lovely little something we can take away on our holidays and all lie together on the metaphorical sun lounger on the beach whilst listening to each other's top tunes.

Have you added one yet? No, not yet, because I cannot decide which song I'd like it to be. I can't just go for the obvious. What, Life is a Rollercoaster? Yeah, or Dance Yourself Dizzy by Liquid Gold. I think you can. Well, in that case, I'd just add that. Yeah, I think the whole point is it's just got to be one cracking song, not necessarily

something from Rumours, the best album of all time. I love Tavistri. We get all that, but if you've got a song that whenever you hear it played, you just think that's my song, I love it. I'm never going to get tired of hearing it. That's the kind of thing that we're after. My other favourite, just a song that makes me smile is You to Me, Everything by The Real Thing. Love that song. Yeah, it's just upbeat, positive, get on your feet, get jigging. Yeah. And it's weird, isn't it? Because actually one of my other songs would be Native New Yorker. Native New Yorker.

That's a great song. It is, but I was born in Slough. But whenever it comes on I think, this is my song. It's so notchy. It just couldn't be less my song. If anyone can come up with, what would it be? Native... Slougher.

Born in Berkshire. Is Slough in Berkshire? Yes. What was the nasty thing that John Petraman said about Slough? Drop thy gentle bombs and obliterate the whole city. No one do that. No, nobody do that, no. Okay, have a decent couple of days. It's Jane O'Fee at Times.Radio and don't forget to qualify for the jingle and we do hope to be playing some of them, just I mean not all

the time during next week's podcast but intermittently as a treat, certainly for us, for us, frustrated disc jockeys. You have to be a first time emela, long time listener, first time emela. Long time listener, first time emela. Goodbye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The Jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's

the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.