Off Air... with Jane and Fi - We show our grati-Judi (with Juliet Stevenson)

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

'Tis the season - Jane's tree is en route and Fi's came rather late last night. The Lady has also arrived and is providing some giggles. And some chat about I'm A Celeb, ancestry and karaoke. Plus, actress Juliet Stevenson discusses her latest film 'Reawakening'. Get your suggestions in for the next book club pick!If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Come on now. All right, I'm summoning my inner Michelle Hussain. She sparkles brightly in our sky. She's made us laugh. She's made us cry. For so long our pride and joy, I've loved her man and boy. Oh my god.

Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Hello, I'm Holly Mead and with me is Lucy Andrews and we are both from the Money Team at The Times and Sunday Times. And our new podcast is called Feel Better About Money. It's a safe place to talk positively about money and personal finance. Each week we will tackle a specific financial topic from managing debt,

saving for a pension, buying a house or deciding whether to insure your cat or dog or goldfish. Feel Better About Money is sponsored by Lloyd's Readymade Investments. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which has nearly doubled the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider Flu-Cilvax-Quad and help protect yourself from the flu.

It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur and 100% protection is not I don't want to waste a moment. I've just asked Jane if she's tree up yet, technical term in the domestic Christmas industry. Yeah. I went to the garden center yesterday and had a look at the trees. They've sort of slightly upped their game at my local garden center and they had a little Santa's Grotto and all sorts of stuff going on. That's nice. Yeah. Trees are not cheap, are they? No, they're not. Still. Have you got Nordman fir? I don't know, but it's quite, it's relatively

pale green and nice and plump. That's nice. Yeah, not too tall. Okay. And coming tonight. In fact, I probably won't really be here. That's like my kind of guy. I've got to go home to be there for it. That's nice.

Yes. Oh, and thanks to Pam, who sent Christmas cards. Christmas cards are just not as commonplace as they used to be, are they? No, of course they're not, because they're just too pricey. They're so expensive. So Pam, thank you very much indeed for sending this card. Little baby cheeses in a manger. She's got three baby bells lined up in the manger there. As we know, the Virgin Mary gave birth just to one baby and to no cheeses at all, as far as we know. Well, that's one way that the legend has gone, but you know we're open minded. It could have gone another way. Pam thank you for taking

the time and frankly spending the money on sending cards. Much appreciated. Seven Foot arrived last night just in case anyone's curious. And have you decorated it? No, no because it arrived really late. It was on delivery because I can't fit it in the back of the car, I've got quite a small car. So it had to be delivered and it arrived at 10 o'clock. So I bothered to... 10 o'clock a night? I almost stayed up to watch the end of I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here in order to receive the tree. Right.

But in the end I didn't have to because they make that final go on for about four and a half hours. Because of my television difficulties I haven't watched a single minute and do you know what I haven't missed it for. So I've occasionally kind of stumbled onto it you know whilst searching for something else but honestly I do think just stop it it just seems so tired. It is it's well it's the format where you just well you're watching people eating unpleasant parts of animals. I mean, in the end, it doesn't say a lot about us as a species, does it?

No, but they have very interesting people who go in there, don't they? They do, yeah. But they can't possibly, they can't possibly have such dull conversations, you know, the ones that they then put out on the programme. Because if you think of the combination, just the three who were left in last night in the final, so the guy from McFly Busted, and I'm sorry I don't know his name,

but it's obviously just slightly out of my reach that time in pop, Richard Coles and Colleen. We know him and we know her. Yeah, and they would have really, really interesting chats about the nature of fame, possibly about belief, about everything that's happened in Colleen's life, everything that's happened in Richard Coles' life. And they don't, they just show these really bog-standard, dull, kind of tailing-off chats. Does it remind you of anything? They come on and say, you know, oh, you know, fantastic chat. And you think, no it wasn't.

No. No, that's for the two of you. I mean, have you had a decent chat with what you've been waiting for? Yeah, well, if only. I don't know how much longer they can go on being cheeky little boys because they're well into their 80s now, aren't they? Still ploughing that furrow. Now you've got, well first of all, Fee has gone right off script and came in today with a pasty. Which you've, not only

have you almost finished it, but you've left bits of the crust on it. It's not like you at all. No, but that's what you're meant to do with a pasty, isn't it? The crust was only... You sucked out the contents. But the crust was only ever there as a means of holding it to eat the filling. Oh really? Yeah. Because it was given to tin miners. Yes, it was for people who wouldn't have, you know, a packed lunch and cutlery with them. So you're not meant to eat all of that pastry. Do you know what, I went to the Marks and Spencer's, I

bought a very, very sensible salad, you know, it's about 14 of my 5 a day. It's glorious and wonderful. It's got bite, it's got crunch, it looks disgusting. And as I was leaving and it's cold as well, I just thought this isn't enough for a Monday. It's not enough for a Monday. And next door to it, in a cruel twist of olfactory fate, there is a Cornish pasty maker. And as it wafted out across me I gave in to it. I won't do it again. No, okay well we've all had those moments. I was witness to a very grave incident in my local store of the same name over the weekend. They are selling cuddly Percy pigs. Have you seen them? Cuddly Percy pigs? What do you mean?

They're quite large. Well you know the Percy pig suite? Yes. Yeah well there's a cuddly thing version of the pig. What a toy? Yes. Yeah. And a small child very very toddlerly just came up picked it up and went I have this. She said and I don't I don't think that mummy and daddy were in the mood to buy a large cuddly Percy pig and an incident ensued. But look, we have so all been there. We have, yes. With a little person who sees something and wants it. And it can be difficult.

It's a dangerous time of year for that, isn't it? Yes, God, it really is. Thoughts and prayers. Now I've opened it. You've got a copy of the lady. Well, I've actually managed to keep it. I think Eve very specifically put it on the desk furthest away from the long reach of Jane Garvey. But you can have it as soon as you want to.

Who's on the cover? I don't think it's a named person. I think it's a beautiful model looking very kind of 60s-esque. But is that a famous person? I don't know. I'm afraid I don't know either, but you're right. Absolutely lovely. And I think the lady is marking, as we all should, the 90th birthday of Dame Judy Dench. Yes, and there's a poem inside. Would you like just a couple of stanza? Very much. Written by Dame Judy?

No, written by Henry Dorr of Uppingham Rutland. Oh! Do you know his work? Probably not as well as I should but carry on. Okay here we go. This lady truly is unique, a precious gem, a rare antique. I don't think she's crikey. Henry that's bold. I'm going to have to really concentrate to do this. Come on now. Right I'm summoning my inner Michelle Hussain. We need to talk about that in a sec. Oh yes. She sparkles brightly in our sky, she's made us laugh, she's made

us cry. For so long our pride and joy, I've loved her man and boy. I mean it's well meant but it veers off in some unexpected directions doesn't it? It just keeps on veering. I think it's got, what do they call that thing now that they have on cars? Lane Assist. You know the Lane Assist that just... Yes, I think we need to put Lane Assist on the poem. She's been there to serve us all, never failing to enthrall her company, brings such delight she cheers up any gloomy night. To leave her is always a wrench by her, I mean Dame Judi Dench. And it's a very, very long poem.

Would you just like me to skip to the end? I think probably that would be best. I'm only doing that in terms of timing. It's honestly, it is very long, so here we go. But one star outshines all today, one beacon guides them on their way To that most sumptuous birthday feast with cake and treacle tart At least ninety candles there to see Ninety years that's more than me Britain now shows gratitude

To its one, it's only, Jude Now I think... First of all,'s law. I know. I think you should have been bolder Henry and Gone Britain now shows a gratitude-y. That's what I'd have done when I was at school. But look it's lovely. No it is lovely. And I'm sorry because genuinely Jane and I kind of we of, we're not laughing at the sentiment here because it's really lovely. And wouldn't you like somebody to write a whole kind of two-page spread of a poem about you?

When I'm 90, very much so. And also let's just acknowledge that Dame Judy is what an extraordinary actress she is. Just absolutely. I've only ever seen her on stage once and it was in A Little Night Music I think at the National Theatre. This must be many years ago. Do hope I haven't got this wrong. And that's, is that the show that includes Send in the Clowns? Oh you don't know because you don't do, I think it is. Perhaps our young colleague might like to check that. And honestly she was just mesmerising. So how old would she have been then?

Well I'm thinking she probably would have been late 60s maybe in her 70s. Just incredible. I think her ability to keep working is just extraordinary and it kind of overshadows her body of work doesn't it? The fact that she is still working at 90 is just mind-boggling and she's really struggled with her eyesight as well, hasn't she? Which must be terrifying if your work is on stage. It's just so visual, isn't it? Just all the prompts and the places you would need to be and you know all of that. So yes and also Jane she's just got fantastic old person hair. I mean, she's just

got a brilliant hair. She has led the way going short and croppy. Yeah, later on in life. So yeah, all hail to her. Yes. Happy birthday. Well done. Henry Dore as well. I beg your pardon. Eve. Eve is struggling with her vocal cords as am I slightly. Carol, a little night music. is that the musical that has Send in the Clowns? Yes, thank you, that's it. I haven't made that, it wasn't a funny dream that really happened. Thank you, Eve. No, we've stopped talking about your funny dreams. Oh god, it's just as well, to be honest. We have briefly mentioned over the last couple of weeks DNA tests. They're sort of, they're a mixed bag, these things. My mum received one of these, says Anonymous.

It was for Christmas a couple of years ago. And she thought it would be fun to see if she was part Viking or some other sort of exotic pedigree. However, no such excitement was forthcoming. This year, her sister also did a test. My mum is the eldest of three girls. And at the age of 83, has discovered that the man she thought is her dad is only actually dad to her two sisters and not to her. You see this is

difficult. This is the damage you can do Jim. Yeah this has been really upsetting. She is questioning who she is and at her stage of life the oldest member of her family she is unlikely to ever find out. This also leaves me and my two brothers with a gap in our family tree. The closest relative she's found is a fourth cousin and that isn't a close enough relation to determine who her biological father actually was. So to anybody thinking of doing one of these tests, be careful what you wish for. Yeah, I totally agree. Thank you for that because I think those are wise words. And these tests are actually handed around at Christmas.

They come on dad, it'll be fun, do one. And as that email illustrates, it's not always quite what you're looking for. And I have to confess, I understand the curiosity of wanting to know more about where you're from, but I don't really understand the jeopardy that people are playing with. I think it is best to leave the past in the past. Unless everybody knows that you're doing it. So therefore might have an opportunity to say, please don't.

I suppose people wouldn't, would they? that's the thing, would older people? Your heart must sink. It really must. Yeah, you must. Oh God, I've dealt with this for the last 75 years. I'm 95. I don't, I just want to die without all this coming up. So I, yeah, I think it's a very difficult world.

Yeah. I understand of course where it can help, but there are clear dangers here. Yeah, there certainly are. Just a word of warning there. Now last week one of the news stories that we covered was this really interesting survey. Is it the Household Longitudinal Survey that's revealing all kinds of things because it's thousands and thousands of people whose lives have been charted for the last 40 years or so. And one of the recent research projects into it revealed this quite astonishing statistic actually about the number of couples later in life who are choosing to live apart.

So that's not couples who have always been couples who then say, I tell you what, why don't you go and live at number six, I'm going to live at number 23, I just can't stand the way you eat cereal. six I'm going to live at number 23 I just can't stand the way you eat cereal. It is couples who've met later on in life and just decide that they're never going to move in together. Have they decided they're never going to move in or they're just not moving in right now? Well did you remember the very nice professor we spoke to actually couldn't answer that question because I don't think intent is in the survey I think it's just a survey of habits right So there would be no way of knowing whether it was a choice for life.

And that's, you know, I mean, that's difficult, isn't it? Do you have enough money to have different flats and sheltered housing? You do, you need a few quid to maintain separate households, don't you? But of course there are practicalities, you've got the kids still at home, then I guess that makes sense, and if you're able to afford it, but anyway. Yeah, so it's just a market change from previous generations and it's a really big leap. So this one comes in being apart from my husband and it is from Francesca who is greeting us from the Alps waiting for the big dump of snow due to arrive this weekend.

Always puts a double space after a full stop. My kind of lady. I was driving down to my ceramics class when he talked about couples living apart from one another. It made me smile as it took a serious bike accident in 2019 to be where we, my husband and I, are today. And we love it. We both own a hotel, Chili Powder in Morzine in the French Alps. Right. Yeah. Paul designed the hotel. We borrowed a huge, huge amount of money. We built it together, had three children and worked together. All three children were athletes from a very young age to them playing ice hockey for France. Wow. I know as they have dual nationality. Can you do the wow in French now? Wow? No.

Although hats off to their Notre Dame event. Oh my goodness. Very good. Yeah, I tell you what, they have used some magic erasers on those walls, haven't they? They've come up lovely, Jay. If anything. It was a little too bright, I thought. It was very, very spick and span. Yeah, and I suppose it took you back.

That must have been how it looked, which was quite the mindblower. The idea that that was originally how... I mean, my big hero, Ken Follett, of course, has written many, many novels about the building of cathedrals. I just want to say happy Christmas to Ken. But, I mean, it's a stupid observation. But wow, how did they do it? How did, but wow, how did they do it? How did they do it?

How did they do it? Yeah, yeah. Trump and Prince William. Well, Prince William's got no choice, has he? This is realpolitik. Well, it is, but couldn't he use a code word that was available to us back in this country? Perhaps, yeah. He just could tip us the wink that there were certain things that he, yeah.

I mean, it's going to be a difficult four years for many people. Yes, isn't it? Right, anyway, back with Francesca. So juggling the hotel, looking after the guests, mothering staff, living three metres from the hotel and working together, it kept us extremely busy. But before the start of the winter ski season, a stone would fall off me due to the stress of staff finding training, getting everything ready and Christmas sorted for all of the family etc etc etc. So what happened? A serious unexplained bike accident in a race in the UK where I was found

unconscious, had head injuries, fractured my spine. I became very nervous of people and lost my confidence. It took three years for me to accept and get over this chapter in my life. So how do we live now? Well our children are grown up and live in their different areas. My wonderful husband runs the hotel and I live five and a half hours away for five months of the year in Provence running a quieter affair of a bed and breakfast. How do we cope? Well we only spend three weeks apart at a time, we catch up for a few days and then another three weeks apart. Both working extremely hard but we are more in love now than the middle part of our marriage.

It's flipping wonderful. I miss him a lot when apart but get so excited like a teenager when he's due to come down. There we go ladies. A brilliant solution. I don't have time or want to have an affair as I'm doing a French ceramics qualification. Well we all wish that more people would do that French escrow actually. It's a wonderful if not slightly Alan Partridge way of approaching infidelity. It's a great sentence. Distract yourself with French ceramics. So that keeps me extremely busy when I'm not washing sheets and cleaning rooms. He runs the hotel in his spare time, watches his boys playing professional hockey. Have a happy Christmas build up. I love my husband more than ever. He's still irritating though. I love that email.

Best wishes. That's just really interesting, isn't it? And obviously that's come about through, you know, something really unfortunate happening to you. It sounds horrible what happened to her. But how lovely to just, you know, be able to decide this is what we're going to do. And we're just going to, we're going to do and we're just going to live a different life. We're going to live a different life to the norm, to what society might expect, presumably

the kids are on board. And then you really, really look forward to seeing him. I think that's terrific. Yeah, it's hard to see, hard to find a hole in that particular argument. Absolutely. I wonder where in Provence and whether or not you've got two little rooms available in the summer. Knocked down discount. As you may, it's sweet.

Podcast chums. No, I've got German. Completely inappropriate. She's gone off air. I do have an O level in German. Right. Yes, I know. I know, so it's very hard to to believe and you've got an A level in French which is even harder to believe. Listen, my grades were not high but I was one of the goddess's triers. That's what they always talk. Welcome Liz who says Spotify surprised me yesterday with a summary of my listening experiences over the past year. As you will see, Off Air was my number one podcast in 2020.

Well done. Congratulations, even beating Woman's Hour. Originally from the Wirral, I have lived in Tennessee in USA for the past 30 years and listening to podcasts from home keeps me connected. Liz, thank you so much for keeping in touch via us. We are hugely appreciative. And thanks to everybody who's... Look at that. There we are. We sit loud and proud at the top of her Spotify listening.

We certainly do. Very grateful to you. Above, Women's Out, AmeriCast, What Now with Trevor Noah and Pod Save the King, Royal Family News, interviews and fashion. Pod Save the King. I don't know Pod Save the King. How long do you think the fashion part of that is with the King? Well, he wears a good suit. He wears a lovely suit, but he doesn't often differ from a lovely suit. Well, he wears crowns, capes, military uniform.

Yeah, actually it's very true. He's got a wider wardrobe than most, hasn't he? Sometimes he's in a kilt. Oh yes, whenever he goes north of the border he pops a kilt on. Every single person in Scotland wears a kilt for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. If it's inadvisable if you're Gina Di Campo. Well yes. Goodbye. Well, I mean we did, sometimes we're right about people. Yeah, sometimes the barometer is really on it. Actually, so can I ask you this about the MasterChef business? We were talking about this last night at our family supper, because we all really love MasterChef in our family.

Do you? Yes, and we've watched it for a long time. It's been one of those really lovely go-to programmes that everybody in the family has enjoyed. So it's been quite special to us actually, and we're all really, really upset. But we were talking about whether or not it can carry on with any of the current presenters. So it's not just John T. Rhodes, known as John T. Rhodes in our house, but it is Monica Galletti as well and Marcus Waring. You know, it's all of the other spin-off people that Greg Wallace has worked with.

I think Michelle Roo was there for a while. And you know, it's the bystander thing. How much are they culpable as well? And I wonder what your thoughts are. Well, I mean, if I had behaved in the way that Greg Wallace is alleged to have behaved, his lawyers of course say he doesn't recognize any of this as sexually harassing behavior, but if I had behaved in that way and you'd worked with me, you know, fairly regularly since 2017, you you would have noticed wouldn't you?

Yes. And would you have perhaps suggested that I could do better or stop? Well I think... Or would you have just resigned? No I think the interesting thing would be I would probably if I'm being really honest lift it out of my professional relationship with you and I would say to a producer, you know, I'd have it on record with somebody, as we used to call at the BBC, referring up. Referring it up, yes. Refer it up. Make it somebody else's problem.

Let them deal with it, because I sure as hell can't. And so we kind of decided around the dinner table last night that if John Turay had done that then absolutely he gets to stay because it's awful if his entire career is taken away. As long as he recognized it and asked somebody to do something about it then that's the right thing to do, isn't it? Should it be on him to have taken Greg Wallace aside and said stop? I mean I don't think they liked each other. I think John Traede had made it pretty clear and said, you know, when they went out they'd sit at opposite ends of the table, they never socialised together or did anything else. I don't know, it's a quandary isn't it?

It's a bit of a quandary. I've got to be honest and say ultimately I don't care because I don't watch the show. I have watched it, but I certainly don't watch it now. And it is only a TV show. And are there other shows on telly about cooking? Yes, there are. Could they just reinvent the whole thing, give it a slightly different title and have Angela Hartnett and A.N. Other on, Andy Oliver? Well, they absolutely could. Just start again. I mean, there's no doubt these shows clearly make a bundle of money. Oh my god, Jane, with knobs on. So I think Masterchef is one of the biggest selling formats in the world ever,

along with now Strictly Come Dancing and I'm a Celebrity. The absolute great big banging, bonging, whichever territory you go to. Yeah. There'll be a John Turodin, a Greg Wallace lookalike doing the same kind of shtick. Right. It is interesting though, isn't it? What is your duty as someone, it doesn't matter what you do, what line of work you're in, if you're working alongside someone whose behaviour is questionable. Yeah. My sister's in HR, so I hear a few of her stories sometimes. What is your duty and how easy is it to do something about the behavior of somebody else? But that is what HR's for.

Well, you know, they... But they can only do stuff if someone tells them the stuff going on. Oh no, that's what I mean. But they're the place to go to. Yeah, I mean, it's just, I don't... it certainly isn't restricted to the media this is it? It really isn't. So I'd be interested to hear from people who are perhaps currently working alongside someone whose behaviour is just really unpleasant. Yes, definitely. And they seem completely unaware of their impact on others. And you're right, so I'd like to hear from those people as to whether or not that they feel that it is on them to talk to the person, because I think that's the very hard thing to do.

I think it's easier to go and see somebody in HR or talk to your editor or your boss, but I mean that depends on whether or not there's a kind of atmosphere of collusion at work, full stop. But HR should always be a bit separate from that. But yes yes you could tap into your familial connections on this one. And I just wanted to say on Michelle Hussain I really hugely rate her as an interior. I think it's an enormous, enormous loss. And I don't think she'll be gone for all that long. Do you not?

I don't think so. I think the trouble with the BBC is in the end there's only a finite number of roles for people who've reached a certain stage in their career and I think once people have got into those roles they're quite reluctant to move on creating an opportunity for somebody else. And she's barely 50 so she could easily do a few years somewhere else and then come back. Well, she could, but my argument would be there are some people who have been presenting programmes way too long in the schedule. Oh yes, that's what I mean. So get rid of those, get rid of the format, make that slot available to the younger people.

They don't get rid of them. No, they don't, but they should, Jane. Well, don't you? Because I think she's just such a forensic interviewer. There's never any kind of, you know, fally diddly stuff around her questions. I think she's just brilliant and I think... Fally diddly?

Yes, technical term, learned it at journalism school. Okay. And I think also if she was allowed to choose her own agenda and choose the people she wanted to talk to, I'd find that fascinating. Well, do you know what I've always thought they should do? And I've said this to you before. They need to have a BBC global news show that isn't, that is a global news bulletin, including

live interviewing, which she'd be brilliant at. And they should pump it out on BBC Two at... But isn't that the news channel? Isn't that what the news channel does? But that's, but nobody watches the news channel. Why would people watch your channel? Because it's on, I'm going to put it on BBC Two. Oh.

At, um, what time will I put it out? I'll put it out at eight o'clock at night. Has anybody told Celebrity Antiques Roadshow this? It's not on at eight o'clock, is it? And I would watch that. Okay. So kind of like Channel 4 news, but just done by the BBC. At the moment, of course, I can't get Channel 4 because of my TV.

Actually you're right. There are a number of reasons why I'm not currently running BBC News. You need to get your TV sorted before Christmas Jane, otherwise what's going to happen? One of my mates was going on about this weekend. Look, I've had a very hectic weekend. I did karaoke on Friday night, which was a first for me, but it won't be the last. What was your song? Well, any number. So we were locked in this lucky voice booth. Oh, I love a lucky voice booth.

I've never been in therapy once. It was quite a night and it was too much for me and I almost lost my voice. And it was actually when I woke up on Saturday morning, I thought, you stupid bat. Literally the only thing you depend on for work is your voice. What were you doing with your silly cold singing Fairy Cross the Mercy at high volume? Oh god! Okay! But my mate whose birthdate was, she's a Scouser too so it was appropriate. But you always think those places are soundproof but when you pop to the loo you can hear everybody else's.

I always worry that they're secretly taped. I mean, I should just be the worst blackmail ever. Well, not the worst, but no, no, really not the worst. No, no. Well, this is interesting. I think Eve, we should note this, shouldn't we? Maybe for our next office outing we could go and do a little bit of karaoke. I did go to, we did have a Christmas party actually,

it's all coming back to me now, at the BBC on one of the programmes I worked on where we did go to the Lucky Voice and Soho and we didn't all know each other very well. You soon do, don't you? And we had to do karaoke and one of the people there was a professional musician who had become a radio producer and he started off, I can't remember what he did,

but it would have been something a little bit indie musician who had become a radio producer and he started off, I can't remember what he did, but it would have been something a little bit indie and a little bit old, maybe even a J.J. Kale. And it was just that really, really difficult thing where everyone was kind of like, oh, we can't beat that. You know, it's like a professional singer in the room. Well, that's really putting a marker down, isn't it? It's a pain in the ass really. You shouldn't do that. But you can always tell who can hold a tune and who can't. And I always think I can, but as I discovered again again on Friday I can't. It's absolute rubbish.

I've got no idea. Also when the lyric is in front of you on the screen you know you can see you realize what absolute crap you've been singing before. No but just what crap most songs are. Oh so there's a fantastic, somebody had noted the actual lyrics to the father John Misty. Oh yeah, the song that you really love. Yeah, which is very funny actually. But quite a lot of lyrics, they don't bear huge scrutiny. You know that I really love Elton John and I'm always really amazed by the relationship with him and Bernie Torpin because sometimes if I look at Bernie Torpin's lyrics and imagine that he just sends them to Elton without either of them having an

idea of the song in their heads, I find it extraordinary that that is the impetus for such amazing songs off the back of it. Because the lyrics are sometimes not the most kind of poetic things in the world. No, definitely not. Sensible rhyming couplets or anything like that. Like our friend with this poetic tribute to Dame Judy. So it's strange, isn't it? Could you do a quick one while I find the Father John Misty thingy, please?

Um, bear with. Oh, I've got it. Here we go. Hang on. It comes from Harry. Yeah Who says I agree with these enthusiasm for the folky indie musicality of father John Misty's I guess time just makes fools of it all But I wonder if she's made more sense of the lyrics than I can the first of nine verses is Our naked bodies go on trial just for laughing at the joke just for saying at the bargain what any salesgirl already knows Most of us old men die in the firing line just waiting for our number to be called.

I guess time just makes fools of us all. Wow. What does it mean? Sorry, I whispered. What does it mean? Well, it's basically... What's that saying about gods's laughing at your plans? Yes. That's it, isn't it? Yeah. So whatever you do, you're just... our fate as humans is assured.

Yeah. You are here today, gone tomorrow. Yeah. Unless you're in the media when you live on forever, course. That's the worry isn't it? Just the jolly sort of sentiments we need in these dark times of Putin, Trump, Netanyahu etc. says Harry. And you are correct to point out because obviously my eyes were drawn to another one of the tracks on a previous album, or is it this new album, I think it's a new one actually, called Nancy from now on. I thought, oh, this is going to be lovely. It's going to stay in the canon of our... Just in case, they were a new listener. Nancy is Fee's grey hand. But the first three lines are, oh, pour me another drink and punch me in the face. You can call me Nancy. So

I think that's slightly different to the relationship you have with that. Certainly is. Dora, I have tried to explain to her that the tree is arriving today. She doesn't like Christmas trees. Is she going to climb up it? She'll be climbing up it, swinging from the top of it and generally causing a nuisance. So yeah, it's what Christmas is all about. I'm 67, says Anne, and we were talking on a Thursday when I could barely speak and

I can't just apologize for that because it was a very nasal attempt I made a solo podcast on Thursday. Darling you stood in and I was very grateful. Sat in and I made a bit of a pixie of it anyway. Anne says I'm 67, decided to be brave as I couldn't persuade anybody to come with me to a gig so I put my big-girl pants on and I went to something on my own for the first time, my local literary festival. I was cross with myself actually for not having done that kind of thing before and I booked to see Giles Brandreth, Celia Imrie and Tracy Borman. Honestly I loved every minute of it and I will be

doing so again. Well and that's the thing. Sometimes your interests don't coincide with a good friend's interests, just bloody go. What's the worst that can happen? Well, there isn't, there's no possible bad thing that can really happen, logically speaking, at a literary festival. Well, it could be bored shitless, I suppose, but that's unlikely.

You could be slightly annoyed, a bit damp depending on the time of year. You could be made a little bit skint. You could be made a bit skint. But also I would have thought Celia Imrie, Tracy Borman and Giles Brandreth would have been good value. And I think sometimes, and you and I have done this actually at literary festivals, you overhear some absolute caucus. I mean, really, really fantastic conversations to be had on the squeaky wooden chairs. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season? Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider

Flu-Celvax Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages six months and older and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCelvax.ca. Right, here's our guest today and then I got a tiny one from Nick. Our guest today is what we were talking about Dame Judy. It's Juliet Stevenson,

who is currently not a Dame, although I'm sure she'll get there. She is a CBE, has appeared in some of the best and most successful British films like Truly, Madly, Deeplyly alongside the late Alan Rickman and Bend It Like Beckham in which she played Keira Knightley's mum. Her new film Reawakening is about a married couple, Mary and John, whose daughter Claire went missing a decade ago when she was 14. Well, Mary and John have stayed together, they've muddled through, coping though in rather different ways. Then one day, Claire turns up, but is it her? Mary seems sure it is, John has his doubts.

Juliette told me how she perceives this film. So it's partly like a thriller. Yeah. Like is this, is it Claire or is it not Claire? If it's not, why and who is she and why she come back? If it is, you know, what's going on? And so it's, but then there's a certain point in the film where something happens and it's no longer just a thriller.

It sort of takes off into other areas. So, I mean, I don't think, I don't think it necessarily is a sort of sad film because I think there's lots of, lots of love and lots of hope in it. But I mean, you know, everybody, you know, perceives the film very, very, very much, you know, everybody, everybody, you know, perceives the film very, very, very much, you know, it's very personal to them. But that's the way I see it, really. I think it plays into every single parent's nightmare, that the possibility that your child might go.

And I mean, I've unfortunately, the years interviewed many people who've been in that situation and who sometime, some of them have got the worst possible news, others just continue not to know. And it's that agony of not knowing it is just unimaginable that pain. Unimaginable, as you say. And you know, if you had to choose between two horrendous situations, I think, you know, most parents would say that some sort of closure, even though agony, you know, unimaginable agony to lose a child. But to have no closure in the situation of those whose children go missing and they never know what's happened must be just unbearable because, of course,

the imagination then kicks in, you know, and you have no peace because you... I mean, we had an amazing dad who came to the opening, to whom this absolutely happened. He lost his son when his son was about 10 or 11, I think, and never found him again. And he's been looking for him, you know, for 20 years now and thought he found him serving on a market store.

Somebody said, I found your son and he traveled across the country and he saw this young man who was identical to his boy sort of 20 years later, you know, and he was about to go up to him and can you imagine what he was feeling? And then he noticed that his earlobes were completely different to his sons

and that seemed to be the only difference. And so he realized, I mean, you can't even imagine what it was like. And he's been amazing because he's sort of, I think this dad feels that it's very much his story. But you know, 70,000 people go missing in this country, around 70,000 every year. So it's not as rare as we think. No, I mean that's an astonishing figure, isn't it? I mean, some of them clearly they want to go for whatever reason they've had enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And some of those will come back.

Of course, many of those, I'm sure, get found and come back. But yeah, we hear some of those stories, but not others, which is odd. You know, when a little girl, you know, with a Madeleine McCann story became global news. But of course there are many, many equivalents. But I think the film is, for me, the film is in a way about, it's about love. Because in the end, it kind of doesn't matter whether it is the real girl or not, because there's a mother, there's my character.

Mary, who's a mum, and when her child is gone, she can't because there's a mother, there's my character, Mary who's a mum and when her child is gone she can't go on being a mum which is sort of 90% of who she is. So who are you when you're a mother but your child is gone and so there's a young woman who comes back and if it's if it is Claire that's wonderful but if it isn't the daughter then it's a young woman who desperately needs love. I think for anyone who's who's been to the cinema recently and seen, I don't know, Gladiator 2 or Wicked or some great, big, combustible, high-octane piece of entertainment, this is a quieter world, but there's a lot of very real emotion at play here.

But how do films like this one? How do they find space? How do they get seen? Oh Jane, that is a million dollar question. You know, Virginia Gilbert, the wonderful writer and director of this film. I mean, you know, she has bust a gut to get it, you know, produced, funded and distributed. I mean, getting a film distributed is a massive challenge and you have to, how to get it out there. And it has had a lovely run and everybody who sees it,

practically everybody who sees it is really, really enthusiastic. And of course we've got a BAFTA campaign running, but we made it for less than a million quid and everybody did it on love and passion. We did it in COVID, we made it for less than a million quid and everybody did it on love and passion. We did it in Covid, we did it in lockdown, you know, we did it in the heat of the hot summer of 22 because we don't have an industry that's funded properly and we don't have really support for this industry. So we're always struggling against the Hollywood blockbusters.

It's frustrating because when people see it, they say, oh my God, what an amazing film, what a beautiful film. We just want it to get out there so more people can see it you know. I mean when we made Truly Madly Deeply it's a bit like that it's a bit like Truly Madly Deeply it's that kind of size you know and I know from 35 years later that that film you know had a huge life and it was really useful to people and it goes on being useful to people who need to find a place to put their loss or their grief. You're right, of course, about Truly Madly Deeply, which is one of those films that people perhaps come to at a particular point in their life and actually think, oh, God, OK, this is me. I'm being seen. I'm being heard. It really packs a punch and continues to do so,

doesn't it? But you can't possibly have known that was going to happen at the time. No, you don't. I mean, I think you sometimes know when something's really, really... You know a really beautiful script when you read one. But a really beautiful script can go haywire in the making or in the editing, or it doesn't guarantee a success. There's just been a really few occasions in my whole working life, which is like 45 years now, you know, when I've just been sure something would work.

I hoped that Truly Madly Deeply was because it felt extraordinary in the making. And we were all a group of people like Alan Rickman and, you know, Michael Maloney, Anthony Minghella. We knew each other and we'd worked together a lot. So it was like a kind of group of really close colleagues coming together. And in that situation, you know, you can make something that's better than usual because you can take shortcuts.

You can really challenge each other. You can trust each other. So it had a very creative feel about it, which was rare, you know, so I kind of was optimistic, but you never, you never, never know. And Alan Rickman's Diaries, which came out, was it a couple of years ago now? I don't remember, but yeah, probably. I think it was, I think it was, I should know and I don't remember, but certainly they were published and you have been quite, you can correct me. You have been quoted as saying that you didn't read them because you didn't need to.

Because you knew him and you knew what your relationship with him was and how it had been and you didn't need really to know any more about it. Well I didn't, no I didn't, I mean we know he was like a big brother to me and very very close friend and there was a sort of group of us who were very close almost like a family of friends. I didn't really, I wasn't sure whether he wanted those diaries published or not, but anyway, whether he did or not, I didn't really want to enter into that whole sort of public debate really, no. I mean, I wanted to remember him as, you know, the extraordinary, we had a very huge and complicated

and loving, challenging relationship as friends. And I, you know and I met him when I was 20, he was 30. I didn't really, I'm a relatively private person so I didn't really want to talk about it in public. No, I mean, I've kept a diary and I'd be frankly horrified if they were ever published. Mostly because they're just really boring, Juliet, if I'm honest. But there are some observations that you stick down there that you feel better in the moment for having written it down, but you really wouldn't want anyone else to have a gander 20 years later. It's funny, Jane, I was decluttering the house and I found some of my diaries and I

was reading bits to my husband recently and we talked about Alan's and I said, you know, my God, I said, promise me, just promise me if I get knocked out by a bus, you will not, not anybody be interested but please don't publish these things or send them to the Observer or something, you know, no way. So are you acerbic in your observations or I mean I talk a lot about the most mundane household affairs which really no one should ever be troubled with but I've got it all down there. Are you mundane or are you withering in your assessment of other people? I can be both. I certainly don't say, oh hello Diary, today I met Julia Roberts or

Nicole Kidman or something. I haven't really kept it for those reasons. I've more like talked about what's going on in my heart or love affairs or I mean, these go back a long way. I haven't really written much, hadn't written at all since I had the kids. I don't think you have time once you have children and you're working. So it's all more my sort of 20s and 30s.

And it's mainly sort of heartbreaks and heartaches. But it's also about work and interesting people I work with but it's certainly not for publication. Okay, well that's a shame in many ways but never mind. You are known to be a political person and you also know that people in the arts who do stick their head above the parapet and make a case for a particular point of view get stick. Do you ever regret saying and doing things? I do feel at certain times in the world when things are going on, which are truly horrific, as I feel at the moment, for example, that if the media or if there is, if they're not being,

if certain aspects of that situation are not being given voice, that perhaps it is the responsibility of those in the arts and media and the arts and culture sort of movement or industries and the media to speak up if you can, as people have throughout history spoken up. And if you know, lots of people stood up and spoke about when it's safe to do so people do so when it's when it's less safe, people, people don't but no, I don't think I do regret it. I think about these things quite carefully and seriously.

I know that sometimes I'm taking a risk and I don't want it to affect work, but I have to live with myself. And I have one guiding rule in life really, which is that when I pop my clogs, if I get a chance to think, and I'm not just knocked over by a bus, if I have a chance to think back on my life, I want to know that I did the right thing by my own value system. I did the right

thing at the right time, in my view, according to my values and what I thought was important. I don't want to look back and regret that I didn't do something, that I didn't speak up when I could have. I think I would find that really hard to live with. I hope that doesn't sound sort of pious. No, I mean, no, it's a, yeah, it's your honest response to the, I mean, you know, that lots of people just think, Oh, what does that lovey know about the suffering of the people of Gaza? And I absolutely take your point that you feel that the lesser of two evils is that you do speak up because you can and you'll be heard. I think it doesn't matter what profession you're in. It's not about my being an actor. It's anybody who stood up and said, you know, there's a massacre going on. There's an absolutely

heartbreaking situation going on in the Middle East. I feel deeply for the families of the hostages. It's an agonizing situation for those families of the hostages. It's an agonizing situation for those families of those hostages. But you know, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians are also being massacred now and we're watching starvation. We're watching horrors being, it's global sadism to watch what's going on now and not do anything about it. I think for everybody in that region, you know, wherever you come from in that region, you're now committed to a terrifying future. So I think that, you know, the way it's been handled as cynically as it has and as brutally as it has is a tragedy for everybody. And I know it's very difficult to watch that and

not if I've got some small platform then to try and use it for, you know, to say, let's please come together and put a stop to this. And, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people in this country feel the same way, but, you know, they haven't got a platform. So I think there's an argument for people using their platform when they have one, when history is delivering you a situation which is that extreme. Can we just end, I just want to end on a more comforting note, you are the voice of quite a lot of audiobooks aren't you? Yeah. Can you, because I've only relatively recently discovered audiobooks and I just, they are just giving me so much pleasure. It's that time of year when there is nothing nicer than enjoying a good audiobook. Which has been your favourite to read?

Oh, my God, that's hard. And I love doing them. I love listening to them, too. Yeah. I just finished all four of the Alain Ferranti, you know, my brilliant friend, Quartet, brilliantly read by Hilary Huber. I love audiobooks, but I love recording them. And I think among my favorites would be Middlemarch by George Ellis, which I tried to read and couldn't manage it. But having

to read it as a job. And then it was just an incredible joy, a challenge, but a great joy. How many hours is that, honestly? That was about 10 or 12 days. It's huge.'s huge. Oh, lots of Virginia Woolf. Oh, to the lighthouse was a great, was a great joy. I mean, these are all quite difficult to read because they've got huge long sentences, but it's such a pleasure. And then you've got loads and loads of characters

that you have to play, you know, you get to play all the parts. It's which is a sort of, it's an actor's delight. That is Juliet Stevenson. And you can find Reawakening which honestly is a very very touching film. You can find it on digital platforms to buy or rent. Some great people in it, Jared Harris plays her husband and the brilliant Erin Doherty plays the missing daughter Claire. So lots to enjoy. So I promise Nick that I'll do an email entitled Hearing, I'm sorry about that. I'll do his email. Intermittent hearing with Bloke. Hello lovely both.

On the subject of oboe and in my Liverpool home. Just know. Thank you very much. I think. From all of us fortunate enough to have hearing. Oh. Regards, Nick. Come on.

It'll be terrible. I'm not getting my ogo out. For our Christmas email special. No. Come on. No. No. I'm not going to do it. It's a mournful sound, Jane. And Christmas is challenging.

Yeah, it is. But for our Christmas special, God no. Thank you for the emails that have already come in. Please mark them. Christmas, which many of you have done and we are very grateful. But not everybody. Learn, please. Mark in the subject matter, Christmas down. Thank you, some of that made sense congratulations you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane

and Fee thank you if you'd like to hear end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you. If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2-4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale and if you listen to this you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online on DAB or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler. The flu remains a serious disease. Last season, over 102,000 influenza cases have been reported across Canada, which is nearly double the historic average of 52,000 cases. What can you do this flu season?

Talk to your pharmacist or doctor about getting a flu shot. Consider Flu-Cilvax-Quad and help protect yourself from the flu. It's the first cell-based flu vaccine authorized in Canada for ages 6 months and older, and it may be available for free in your province. Side effects and allergic reactions can occur, and 100% protection is not guaranteed. Learn more at FluCelvax.ca.