Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Welcome to the club

Episode Date: October 12, 2022

Jane and Fi question whether it's a good idea for "Royal adjacent" former rugby star Mike Tindall to enter the I'm a Celebrity Jungle.Joining them today is the campaigner and Times Radio's own Mariella Frostrup to discuss the findings of the Menopause All-Party Parliamentary Group.Also, Rosamund Dean kicks off "Wellness Wendesday's" a new feature to help Jane and Fi take better care of themselves.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Radio Producer: Rosie CutlerPodcast Executive Producer: Ben Mitchell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Hello and welcome to Off Air with me, Jane Garvey.

And me, Fee Glover. And we are fresh from our brand new Times Radio show, but we just cannot be contained by two hours of live broadcasting. So we've kept the microphones on, grabbed a cuppa and are ready to say what we really think. Unencumbered and off-air. Hello, it's off-air with Jane and Fi. Not Fi and Jane, it's all been changed, it's Off Air with Jane and Fi Not Fi and Jane, it's all been changed It's all changed, we're now at Times Radio And this is the pocket-sized version of our live Times Radio show Monday to Thursday, 3 o'clock till 5

It was day 3 today And we're both a bit concerned about day 4 Because day 3 was relatively good Is that right? You had too much coffee I had too many teas, I know, I can't I have had a lot of tea It was quite, it was a little bit like taking the top off a rather fizzy bottle there.

I've had a lot of tea. Several yum-yums and some giant chocolate buttons. Oh, I think you are a little bit. But you're absolutely right. We're on day three. Are we? Yes. Yes, we are.

And the end of our working weeks in sight. But I think the less said about that, the better, because that makes us sound like terrible slackers. We love your emails. It's janeandfeeattimes.radio. We were talking about how difficult it is for men to come out in top flight football with Henry Winter on the programme last night. And this is a lovely email from Errol Knight.

And thank you for taking the time because it is a nice long one. And Errol says, Dear Fee and Janeane for old time's sake i think we just ought to rest that one steady errol errol says i was really interested to hear the discussion today about gay footballers i'm a rather stereotypical gay man who would much rather listen to kylie or watch eurovision than follow football why not do both errol but the lack of out gay men in football is notable given the numbers of gay men in society as a whole. I turned 56 last month and I always find it incredibly sobering to think that

within my lifetime, homosexual acts were illegal in this country. And I marvel at the way that many LGBT plus pupils feel able to come out whilst at school, something that would have been unthinkable to me. That doesn't mean that things are perfect because they certainly aren't and homophobia is still very much a part of everyday life. But it is naive to think that footballers don't fear the reactions of fans if they come out. Of course the reactions of teammates must be a consideration too, but surely the authorities would be able to deal with any negative reactions or abuse just like the way that every employer is obliged to do so by law.

I think you're correct, though, to say that straight women don't seem as easily threatened by lesbians as straight men seem to be by gay men. I fear the fact that some straight men have a prurient desire for lesbian women also leads to less hostility in relation to the England women's football team. Yes, I think that's a good thing to say out loud that maybe a lot of people have thought but not said quite so clearly. So Errol, thank you for that. And he says, keep up the good work. Well, I mean, we're just going to carry on working. And if we can get the word good in there at some stage, we'll be very pleased. But it's a mixed picture in terms of reaction to the quality of our work, isn't it? We're reasonably undeterred. we plug on um really good to have you both doing a

live program says elizabeth and i also like the chatty and intimate podcast such a great balance of the two formats here is a satisfied customer let's have more of those i'm currently says elizabeth on a reasonably lonely maternity leave we live abroad and my husband works away during the week as we're based in the town where I work. So your podcasts and Times Radio have been two of the things keeping me going and feeling connected. I'm really glad the two have come together. I look forward to your insights, your interviews and your take on the world news and your warm humour four times a week. It's a treat for me, says Elizabeth. A reasonably lonely maternity leave sounds a bit of a heavy one, Elizabeth.

I'm sure it will get better. Having said that, both Fee and I know what you mean. Yeah, very much so. So I'm not in any way dismissing what you've said, because those days I was just saying to Fee, was talking about, was it breaking the back of the week, you said? Yeah. And I was just reminiscing about how when I had small kids

and you'd get to about 20 to 4, felt like the end of the day was sort of in sight. Yeah, I know what you mean. But then there's the very, I always found that last shift, the worst one. So the one that had making tea for the kids and then getting them upstairs to have a bath and then getting them into bed,

that was actually my nadir in my maternal, maternity leave day. And I had that weird thing where, because I was working at the weekends, so I'd do the kiddies all the way during the week and then go to work at the weekend. And for a while it was great. And then it was just like, oh my God, I'm so tired.

So tired. I once had to hold on to a member of senior management's arm just to go down to the cafe in our previous working environment. So I thought, I'm actually just going to fall over. I'm so tired. You know, you couldn't do that these days. Political correctness gone bad. Back in the day, you could lean on an elderly managerial gent for support. And it was one of those moments where he looked at me and go,

what's going on here? And I just said, I'm sorry, I'm so tired. Give me your arm. Christine, I've been a devotee of yours for many years. And like many fans, she has put that in speech marks, I was slightly miffed at your desertion. But I've given you a chance and your timing has been perfect. We're on holiday in the south of France this week.

And in the absence of TV this week and in the absence of TV or radio in a language I can understand your new chat platform has been a joy and a welcome relief we're on a train

going from Avignon to Nice and I've switched your off-air slot for the 30 minute chunk and I'm enjoying your banter again here's hoping

you get the hang of the Lou break timings I'll be listening out for any crises interesting Christine today was better in that respect as well. You did very well. I think you managed to stave off the whole show.

I did, but things are getting a little urgent now, it has to be said. I love that term, chat platform. I'm not going to tell the kids that I'm going to work. I'm going to say I'm going off to my chat platform. Chat platform, it's good. I mean, I have to say France, I don't speak French, but the radio there just sounds awful.

Just nonsense. How would you know if you don't speak French? Just a lot of people speaking very quickly in French. Very judgmental. Well, I'm sorry. It doesn't sound up to much. Oh, dear. Oh, so cause.

So we were going to have a little chat about one of the stories that we didn't manage to squeeze into the programme today, which was about the line-up for I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here, because the first ever royal is going. Although I'm not sure. Is he a royal? No. He's royal adjacent, isn't he?

It's Mike Tindall. Mike Tindall. He of the much-broken nose. And I have to say, let's be honest about this, he's got a certain rugged charm. Am I right? Again, I just say, oh, secours. You know that means help, don't you? Yes, I do. An A-level in French, actually. I was poorly marked in the exam and I'm still disputing it and I'm convinced that one day they'll get back to me. Okay. But you know that the reason why

Mike Tyndall is going to the jungle is just in the hope that he'll let slip some little royal nuggets. And if he wins, he can be the king of the jungle. No, I think it's a bold and possibly ill-advised move. I've got to be honest. I mean, the money must have been brilliant. And of course, the great thing that the Princess Royal did with her kids for them was not to give them titles. So they are sort of unencumbered by that.

They could walk in here and we wouldn't know, Jane. Well, we would know. But they're not their serene highnesses or anything like that, are they? And Mike, anyway, is only, as I say, royal adjacent, married to Zara, the late queen's granddaughter. Yeah. And he has plied his trade as a rugby player and also as, well, basically as a participant in reality telly shows

of varying sorts for some years now. But the reason I like the cut of his jib, I always have, is that you often see him doing childcare. Yes, with a kitty on each arm. You do. Pushing a buggygy flinging them in the air holding a baby he's often photographed at horsey events looking after the kids whilst zara competes and i'm afraid i'm a bit of a shouldn't be but i'm a sucker for that okay fair

enough well i'll be interested to see how he does the only other one i know who's going into the jungle was the much rumored boy george is that being confirmed? You know, you've got a much better showbiz antenna than I do. I have connections, as you know. I didn't know about Boy George, although I have today just been given the information that I've got the new series of The Crown on preview. Oh, my God. I'm amazed you're still here. Oof.

I know. Well, that's what I mean. Hurry up. Oh, OK. Right, let's get on with it then. Well, look, we'll look forward to charting the progress. If you were asked to go on I'm a Celebrity, get me out of here, would you go?

I would. I've always rated my chances on that of all the reality shows. I think because I was a former girl guide and someone who isn't bothered at all about camping out or creepy crawlies or even snakes, I think I'd be fine with almost all of it with the possible exception of eating any kind of animal. Yeah, I was going to say, the bush tucker trials, I can't see you doing that.

I would hope that I wouldn't be put forward to any of them, because you'd usually get a couple of participants who somehow slide away from the actual trials. Yeah, I think people would want to see you do them, though. No, they wouldn't, because they wouldn't know who I was, and I'm not going to be asked, and obviously if in real life I was asked, I would say no, because of my loyalty to you and to Times Radio. Okay what's the phrase that you sometimes throw at me? On message Mandy. VoiceOver on. Settings.

So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility.

There's more to iPhone. A no expenses spared sound effect for our third day at Times Radio. It can only mean Wellness Wednesday. We could have done Wellness on a Tuesday, but illiterately, I can't, I knew I wouldn't be able to do that. Illiteratively. Not really very much better. It only works today. We do have the gong. It's the middle of the week.

Maybe you're feeling frazzled. Maybe the stress is getting to you and you've resolved to take a bit better care of yourself. Here to help us out every week is Rosamund Dean, lifestyle journalist who writes a weekly newsletter called Well, Well, Well. Wellness for busy, cynical people. I think we can relate to that. Very good afternoon from us. Good afternoon. Right. We are going to concentrate on just one thing. And the first thing that we wanted to concentrate on is this notion of not what we eat, but when we eat.

So an early dinner at 5 p.m. is the way to optimum health. Is that correct? Well, according to a new study out last week, it is correct. They compared people eating, two groups of people ate exactly the same. And this is a study led by a professor from Harvard Medical School. So it's very legit. They were eating exactly the same thing. And one group had dinner at 5pm and one group had dinner at 9pm. Now the 9pm eaters increased levels of a hormone called ghrelin which makes you hungry and decreased levels of a hormone called leptin which makes you feel full. It also slowed their metabolism and increased fat storage so this study was quite a lot about weight gain, which is not everything that health is about, but it's a big element of it.

OK, what are you meant to do for the rest of the evening? Because no, no, but really serious question. If a lot of the evening can be spent, you know, preparing food, having the food, enjoying the food, sitting down after the food. I would have thought the potential to then snack in a quite a bad way is only increased if you have your supper that early yeah of course of course and this all ties in with intermittent fasting which you were talking about yesterday um which for anyone who doesn't know that's increasing the time between the last thing that you eat at night and the first thing that you eat the following day.

So ideally, at least 12 hours, more like 14 is good. Some people do 16. And increasing that time is meant to give your digestive system a rest and kind of give every cell in your body chance to kind of recuperate. But like you say, if you have dinner at 5pm, come 9pm, you're going to be going to be pretty hungry. Yes, I think so. It's interesting, though, isn't it, Rosamund? Because yesterday when we were talking about intermittent fasting, it was because we had read an article that said the way to promote good hormonal health was not to fast for very long periods of time, especially for women. All of this stuff is confusing, isn't it? It's incredibly confusing.

And I think the other thing that's confusing about this study is that if you think about the Mediterranean diet, which is famously considered one of the healthiest diets in the world, and the parts of Italy, Greece, Spain, southern France, where people eat that way, they eat late. They famously eat very late. And they have the lowest rates of diabetes, heart disease, cancer. So, you know, I think there are so many more elements to this. It's not just when you eat, it's also what you eat and how you eat. Because, you know, community and social cohesion is such an important thing as well in those parts of the world, and for everybody.

So as a journalist who looks at these kind of stories all of the time, do you immediately view them with a little bit of cynicism, when you come to understand that there's just so much conflicting information around? I think you have to. I mean, every study that exists can be interpreted in a way to suit a person's particular agenda. And I think good health is so kind of multifactorial. You can't just say it was this one thing that these people did that made them healthier. I mean, it might have changed their hormone levels in that specific way. And the professor that led the study did make a very good point that human biology is designed to eat earlier in the day over hundreds of thousands of years, because it's only

been in the last 200 years, really, that we've had artificial light in the day over hundreds of thousands of years because it's only been in the last 200 years really that we've had artificial light in the evening and and the ability to kind of go out and have dinner at 9 p.m yes gosh i i have a feeling that wellness wednesday is going to be far more convoluted than we ever imagined it to be life has a way of turning out like that doesn't it what time do you two have dinner well well um I would say, and you've called it dinner there. I think Fee's more of the sort of supper variety. I've called it both tea and supper and dinner in an attempt to appeal to every single demographic in our audience.

She's good like that. I would say, honestly, by the time I got home, I'm looking at about seven o'clock, but that wouldn't be my choice. And my kids are very happy to eat at six. That would be their optimum time. But five. I'm afraid afraid fee was right when she said the evening is going to drag because i like to footle in the fridge several times before i go to bed um as my way of getting through the evening yeah well that's exactly it there's no point having an early dinner if you're going to footle in the fridge you're absolutely right i don't think this is one's going to take off for

me i feel a snack coming on right now i've already had had one yum yum. I don't think I can justify another. Rosamund, thank you very much. Thank you. Food for thought from Rosamund Dean. That's terrible. Well, I mean, we are a bit kiboshed by this because we can't have our tea at five o'clock. So it actually doesn't matter.

Unless I insisted on a full roast being brought to me as john peanut enters the studio at 5 p.m and i sit there demolishing it before i go home it's very true and you laughed at my tuna and sweet corn pot that i was taking home on the tube with me yesterday yeah who wants to sit next to somebody eating a tuna well that's the thing isn't it people move away especially it's. I've been out of the fridge for hours. Oh, God. Now, listen. Listen.

This is important because we had... Well, it's fair to say, isn't it, actually? We confess up to this. We had a guest let down today. Someone who was booked to appear with us just didn't understand the time difference. So, couldn't make it. But as I said on air, in fact, Fee had done quite a bit didn't understand the time difference. So I couldn't make it. But as I said on air, in fact,

Fia had done quite a bit of work on the old research, so she's going to be reappearing. Because you don't put in a shift for no reason, do you? I don't like to, no. So I'll be phoning her up at home. And even if I can't broadcast the interview, I'll just have the chat with her with all the research notes involved. Just get it out of your system.

So I'm not going to say we were in any way desperate, but there was an element of a minor show business emergency at about 2.30 this afternoon. We realised we didn't have... So because we're a resourceful, we remembered that we were menopausal women and also that the menopause was in the news. And as luck would have it,

our new colleague, Mariella Frostrup, is a noted author on the subject of the menopause was in the news. And as luck would have it, our new colleague, Mariella Frostrup, is a noted author on the subject of the menopause. And she, of course, has been at the Cheltenham Literature Festival all week. So we got to speak to her about it. And she was kind because she was running for a train. So you could almost hear her hovering out of her seat at about quarter to get away from us. But it was very kind of her to talk to us. So we were talking about the menopause all-party parliamentary group findings.

No, the all-party parliamentary group findings. What did I say? Wasn't that. Well, I mean, I think a few of them are fine-tuning in just good sense and why we're not there already is completely baffling. I mean, if you look at the sort of the health check for all women at 45, we already all have a health check in our early 40s or our allowed one. And the fact that the women's one doesn't mention menopause is just, you know, I mean,

extraordinary and illogical and idiotic dare I say oh Howard Jacobson's just walking past me here at Waterstones in Cheltenham we could feel the you can feel the electricity between us but he keeps putting on a face mask I offered I said look now's the time we'll give you a kiss after 35 years but no he's got the face mask on anyway back to menopause sorry I digressopause. Sorry, I digress. Yeah, so something like that is just common sense and really should be rolled out immediately. I think the socioeconomic impact,

the choice that women have to make between feeling okay about life and able to get about their proper business and feeling completely incapacitated, that's got to be taken away. I mean, it's a complete injustice and women pay you know over 50% of the contribution to the NHS to tax revenues and so on and so forth so why on earth should they be treated unequally when it comes to something that is a kind of

survival thing I mean Jane yes dare I ask did you have a sort of perimenopause? Oh, I've had everything. I have to say, I'm completely with you with that checkup at 45 because I went for it. And actually, it was right at the beginning of my career with Fee Glover when we were doing a podcast together. And I remember it distinctly because I was a kilogram over my BMI chart or something. You were declared to be obese. No, I wasn't declared to be obese. I was declared to be borderline.

One kilo over. I mean, for heaven's sake, a kilo between friends. Yeah, but you're absolutely right. The lovely woman who did it never mentioned the menopause. I was also at the time the presenter of Woman's Hour on Radio 4, so really I technically was quite well equipped for it. But what I'll be totally honest with you about was I wasn't well prepared for just how discombobulating it can be

and your anxiety levels can go through the roof. And I think, Fi, you'd acknowledge that as well, wouldn't you? Totally. And so I welcome all of the findings in this report and I hope that they are all you know examined, pulled over and then executed. I think one of the most important ones Mariella, I wonder whether you'd agree with me, is simply about medical training because I don't know very many women who've been along to see their doctor and come out of the surgery, no fault of the doctor, I'm not

saying that it's the GP's fault but they haven't come out feeling reassured or having been asked the right questions. There just seems to be quite a basic gap in knowledge about what women are going through. Well, first of all, Fi, I would be petrified to disagree with you. So obviously, I agree wholeheartedly. Let's try and keep it that way, Marat. It's incredibly accurate and correct. But I think absolutely, you raise a really important point. I mean, you know, the word postcode lottery or the term postcode lottery gets thrown around a lot. But I think absolutely, you raise a really important point. I mean, you know, the word postcode lottery or the term postcode lottery gets thrown around a lot. But I think when it comes to women's support and treatment during menopause, it really, really is appropriate because, you know, you can go to one surgery and find, you know, my co-author of the book, Alice Melly, you know, went to her GP. Her GP said, oh, you think you're going

through menopause? Yeah, yeah, you could well be. Let me get you some HRT. And I mean, that's the happiest story I've heard. At Menopause Mandate, which is the sort of, you know, the organization we've set up to just keep sort of pushing at government, et cetera, that the incredible details that women have sent in about their stories, their personal stories, you know, would just speak to the fact that you have no idea what you're going to end up with when you get to the doctor's surgery. And it isn't through any fault of their own, but it is the fault of a medical profession that hasn't considered menopause to be in any way a priority ever in the history of time. And that's very much speaks to you know the

way in which women are valued i think in our society you know you're valued when you're fertile and you just go and disappear behind a dustbin if possible once you hit your 50s if we can find a dustbin big enough especially with that extra kilo. Oh, Mariella, please. Actually, it's true now, isn't it, that women, I'm 58, Fee is, as she often points out, much, much younger. But we all have a lot going on in our lives. People are depending on us, not least the people of Times Radio. And we can't possibly go and, as you suggest,

cower behind a large bin. There's stuff to be done. I mean, it's also economically unviable because the workforce in this country, for one in 10 women to be leaving their jobs at a time when they are at their most capable, their most proficient, where they've learned all the skills of the job, is unsustainable.

And let's face it, economically, we're not doing too brilliantly at the moment. So we can't be affording to take those sorts of risks, you know, with reckless behavior towards employees by just completely ignoring a totally normal, totally natural period in every woman's life that we will all get through. And some people need more support, some people less. But, you know, let's not just dismiss it out of hand. Let's actually make sure that this is a big sea change right and talk frankly about it but don't fill younger women with the fear of the menopause because as you suggest mariela it's not that bad for everybody by any suggestion it really no and it's

not I mean for some people it's not bad at all but you know a good society is the one that looks after the weakest as it were and when it comes to menopause if if there are women who are really suffering, we need to have a system that supports them. And therefore, those who aren't suffering can sail through. And that's great for them too. Mariella, safe trip back. Thank you very much indeed.

Thank you. Take care, both of you. Welcome to the club. Thank you. Thank you. Does she mean the menopause club? I don't know. It's a bit late for me to be welcome to it.

The Times Radio Club. All right. You have been listening to Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Ben Mitchell. Now, you can listen to us on the free Times Radio app or you can download every episode from wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget that if you like what you heard and thought, hey, I want to listen to this but live,

then you can, Monday to Thursday, 3 till 5 on Times Radio. Embrace the live radio jeopardy. Thank you for listening and hope you can join us off air very soon. Goodbye. Books, Contacts, Calendar, Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone.