Off Air... with Jane and Fi - We're here because we're authentic - with Anneka Rice

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

Fi discusses her former ambitions to be a professional oboe player, and Jane claims Barack Obama is actually a bit of a 'cold fish' in real life.They're joined by Anneka Rice, who's talking about Challenge Anneka, which is returning after a 30-year hiatus. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Producer: Kea BrowningTimes Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

so we've made it to thursday we've made it through a week that has included quite a lot of discussion about knobs and toasts and in came an email jane of someone who said that she thinks that we did the whole shebang in our previous incarnation. This is Zara who says, regarding toast and toasters, I'm 90% confident that you discovered on your previous podcast that the toast dial isn't for toastiness but for time. I could be wrong, but often when using the toaster, I think of your chat as I try to remember whether the dial relates to degrees of toastiness or to time,

but I'm still unsure. So, I mean, it could well be that our joint collective memory has failed us. Oh, Zara, it might have been on somebody else's podcast. In which case, I'm sorry if this is a theme of many podcasts, because that certainly lacks originality. But I don't know. Sometimes I find it very difficult to remember what I did last week, let alone six years ago. So I will just put that in as my caveat. Who are you? Increasingly, I just don't know. She said enigmatically. I am grateful to New Molden Mum, who's a regular correspondent on Twitter, actually. And she said this this morning after she'd heard yesterday's podcast

when we were talking about the email from a listener who had a peculiar school rule, which meant that you couldn't access the salad bar unless you were in, was it the fifth? I think the fifth form. Yeah, the fifth form. So, I mean, year 11. Utterly ridiculous.

Anyway, New Molden Mum says, our salad bar opened midway through my time at secondary school, circa 1988. It was called the Herbie Bar and it was opened by the headmaster, a giant carrot who was Herbie, and Michael Lavelle, who played Kevin Webster from Coronation Street. I'm sort of moderately jealous because we didn't ever have a single celebrity visitor to my school. Did you? No. And we once had a fleet admiral come and talk to us about careers, I think,

because the fleet admiral was related to somebody who was at the school. And I do remember lots of us. I mean, there were 600 girls there. And this was back in the kind of early 1980s. I remember quite a few of us trudging out of the hall just going, what's the likelihood that we're going to make it to be fleet admiral? So, I mean, it was interesting. But then don't forget Princess Anne listened to my oboe. That's right. So that's as close as I can get to celebrity.

It might explain why she sometimes looks as though she's got a bit of a cob on. Oh, don't be so nasty. She's still thinking about it. I used to practise so hard, Jane. I mean, it's quite funny looking back on it now, but for many, many, many years, that is what I thought I'd end up doing, is playing the oboe in an orchestra.

I would say, if you've never played, did you ever play in an orchestra? No. No. So there's something unbelievable about it. I'd just be sincere and serious about it. No, I mean, I can well be. I think sometimes, although I'm not a big fan of classical music,

I love to be in the presence of classical music being played by a full orchestra. When you're in the orchestra and it starts, and you know that you've got three movements to get through, you are part of the most extraordinary team. And it doesn't matter i mean the oboe doesn't often come up as uh you know you don't get really big parts in very very few symphonies um but which composer is kindest and most generous to the oboe oh god good question well i think probably bach has quite a lot of oboe going down um but sometimes you'll get a

haunting melody somewhere in the slow movement but that that's you know it doesn't matter what you're playing you're just part of this thing it's like a beast when you start and you're all doing the same thing in the same moment and it is quite a feeling I would highly recommend it Jane you could take it up late in life well I would love to be able to play an instrument quite seriously I can see you on the uh timpani section no I want to be like everybody else who can't play an instrument. I just want to be able to twang a guitar and peer into the distance and then write really, really mournful songs about how terrible my life is and then make a fortune.

Yeah, put them up on TikTok. Yeah, absolutely. In absolutely a way. Not TikTok. Well, we're still allowed to use TikTok here. It's just the government. But should we be? No, we shouldn't.

Probably not. Sorry, I was distracted there because I'm in a WhatsApp group with my mum and my sister. My mum's just said, Are going out now. Irish stew is at 5.30. Followed by Waking Ted and Stout. Now, my sister then said,

Waking Ted. She hasn't replied what's waking Ted what could that possibly be a typo for she's going out for Irish stew at 5.30 waking Ted and stout I mean it's St Patrick's celebration presumably anyway

Ted wake up must be that perhaps they're in sheltered housing. Perhaps one of the older guys is called Ted. Maybe she's got more news than you think. Grief. Over 60 years she's been with my father. I suppose anything could happen.

Hello, Ted. This is quite funny, actually. A couple of you have noticed this. There are some adverts that appear at the beginning and possibly in the middle of the podcast. And it will make sense why it's funny when I read out this from Kirsty, who says, am I the only person who sniggers every time you do the Hilton ad

and talk about how you hate being hit by an unexpected fee? And when that went out, I did think, yeah, that's a bit weird. There'll be an unexpected Jane along next week. Oh, gosh, it's a chance to be a fine thing. Have you got the email about weddings? I can find it. If you could find one to do... I'm going to do another one then.

And then I'll find the wedding as well. We really enjoyed yesterday's big guest, who is Roma Agrawal, the structural engineer. And Irene has emailed to say, my daughter, now 30, did engineering at Cambridge she did structural engineering worked for over two years for a top London design firm she wasn't treated the same as the men who started on the same day they were paid two grand more than her complaints about harassment by a male team member were not dealt with all five women in the team of 15 left

my daughter went to the Netherlands and completed another master's, construction management and engineering. Then she, that was at the technical university in Delft. She now works for a UK company as a project engineer, building and setting up a factory near Schiphol airport. She says women engineers are treated better there because 30% of Dutch engineers are women. That's enough that going into a meeting, they don't say you're in the wrong room, dear. Once when sitting about waiting for a meeting in London, she knows not why. And they would say, we're waiting for the engineer. And she would have to say, she's here.

Irene, thank you for that. Irene goes on to say that her son's an occupational therapist, changing topics to those NHS health careers. You aren't quite sure what they do. My son works with children with special needs. They are not all arranging fitting handrails for people at home, although some of them do that, points out Irene. And of course, that's valuable work. The old handrails are extraordinarily important at various stages in people's lives. work the old handrails are extraordinarily important at various stages in people's lives um irene thank you and i'm glad that your daughter is is um doing so well just a shame she had to go to the netherlands to do it but there we are can we say a very quick hello to alan who sent us a lovely email and i think you've had a really tough time recently alan and if we have made you chortle

even just the once or maybe just taking you out of yourself for the odd half an hour then we are more than happy to have done that and obviously i hope you're on the way to a full recovery right here we go this is anonymous but i think it's an email that will get people thinking and talking are you ready yes i am 30 says our anonymous listener and i've been with my boyfriend for just over nine years we've spoken about marriage previously but have in the past agreed to prioritize other things my dad passed away when I was 21 and I've always been reluctant to think about a wedding due to the fact that it would force me to confront the absence of his presence I'd always thought I would eventually

have a wedding and go all out with the dress, friends and family, live music, and knew that when the time came I'd ask my uncle, my dad's brother, to walk me down the aisle. My uncle has become even more dear to me since my dad passed. Not only has he given me a huge amount of love, support and security, he's also been there to share tales of my dad and in a way keep his memory very much alive. to share tales of my dad and, in a way, keep his memory very much alive. But I found out last month that he has terminal cancer and it's safe to say that his time is limited. I'm focusing on ensuring that we enjoy the time he has left,

but the wedding issue has become even more pertinent. And now I don't know if I should rush to organise the wedding that I'd previously envisaged or do something more scaled down with just a few people. I've asked my friends and they've all given me very different advice. Equally my mum and mother-in-law to be aren't that enthusiastic about a big day. They're both extremely practical and think it's a waste of money. So from your experience do weddings really matter? Should I just do a small wedding? I have to admit I think there is a small vain part

of me wanting people to see me look nice in a white dress and the excitement of a big party that is finding it harder to imagine a smaller day will I regret not doing this well we're here to help over to you first Jane well anonymous I think it really is what you want. And if you do want your big day in the big dress, if that's really, really what you had in your head as what your wedding would be like, why not do it? What's wrong with it? Well, I don't think anything's wrong with it at all. I suppose what you just have to factor in

is that arranging a big wedding is no small order and she's got to do it quick will take over a lot of your life and lots of other people's actually and my worry would be that your uncle isn't well enough to then walk you down the aisle and that would be a strain for him he becomes more unwell and you know doesn't make. And I'm sorry to say that, but this is something that you probably have thought as well. And then perhaps you'd feel guilty that you'd spent so much time arranging the wedding. So I really, really understand your dilemma. And although I'd agree with Jane, if there's something inside you that pictures that day, that's so beautiful beautiful and that's such an

enormous part of who you are and celebrating your love for somebody else and all of that so I think that's a really really tricky one and actually I don't have any kind of definitive well yes advice about it I should have said it's up to what anonymous and anonymous's partner really wants as well it's it's the two of them it's their really significant day and if they'd be happy with well it's about what they'd be happy with i mean you could also throw into the mix could her mom not give her away um you know i've seen that done and um it's very why not come on no i suppose there's no reason why not but i guess if you've got in your if you've had a little thing in your mind's eye that because your dad's not there, but your uncle has really stepped up to the plate as you know, that kind of paternal figure, then you'd want it to be him.

And maybe it would then be inexorably sad if you had a big wedding and your uncle wasn't there. Can I just say something from experience experience which is not me giving advice about this at all because I think that is actually a very very complicated set of circumstances that other people our listeners might have more thoughtful things to say but in in the moment if you love somebody and you're imagining the rest of your life together that kind of big wedding thing I don't think is actually that important. I think having the opportunity maybe further down the line to have a really big party when there isn't so much time pressure on you can be a really hugely enjoyable thing.

And that lovely moment when you are promising yourself to somebody and they're promising themselves to you, it's a little bit of magic. I think you can't imagine it until you're in it and and I don't think you do need lots and lots of people to witness that actually I think you need the right people to witness yeah yeah gosh I mean from my own experience my um my sister she won't mind me saying this had um had a wedding in a register office with um, very few people there. So her husband's mum and dad, our mum and dad, me, my youngest daughter who was wearing a snow white dress.

And I was extraordinarily heavily pregnant. I think I was about eight and a half months pregnant, so I could hardly stand. I'm not at my best when I'm heavily pregnant, it has to be said. There are no pictures of the occasion. I think there are almost literally no pictures of this occasion. Anyway, they're still very happily married. And I had quite a big wedding and I got divorced.

But I need to say, I love my wedding day and I often think very fondly of it. So, you know, you can't... If only it was simple to answer this question. But I think it's so brave of you to tell us your story and I think maybe the point of doing that is because somebody listening to our podcast will have a much closer experience

of what you're going through at the moment and someone will know and we'll be able to just say something that you and I can't say because we weren't in those circumstances although actually my dad had died by the time I got married and i did miss him enormously enormously on the day so it was actually incredibly helpful to not be having

a huge wedding where i would feel the lack of his presence so you know there was a registry office wedding which was absolutely lovely followed a very comedic uh chauffeur driven drive around town uh with uh on our way to our wedding lunch with only you know with my a couple of best friends and my kids uh the guy pitched up at the house uh and he said i'm sorry you can't get in the car unless you've got cash and i said look it's my wedding day i haven't got any cash you can't get in the car if you haven't got cash so he had to drive me around to the cash machine. The cash point. In my car.

A romance. But anyway, we had a much bigger party further down the line, which kind of ticked those two boxes. But I am now divorced. Don't include that bit. But it's true. So you need someone who's got your experience. We're here because we're authentic. So we have to include these details.

But anonymous, the one thing I would say is please, please, please, please, please don't get yourself into a whirling ball of tension about this. Because the wedding day, it can become all consuming and it's the rest of your married life you've really got to focus on. Trust us. It really is. is um so yes have a great day but please don't over focus on something that is just one day in your life and for heaven's sake don't get into debt because they're so expensive it's ridiculous and i think actually you've done both of us an enormous favor there because uh we are now no longer going to be offered a column in weddings monthly i think it's highly unlikely. Can we do St Paddy's Day, please?

Yes, we can. Elaine has emailed to say, I thought it was time to get my St Patrick's Day greetings in as you're off air on Fridays. Well, not this week, of course. We've got a bonus edition from the Women of the World Festival. Thank you for allowing me to mention that. When I lived in the US and Paddy's Day came round,

everyone went into work wearing an item of green. There were green doughnuts in the US and Paddy's Day came round, everyone went into work wearing an item of green. There were green doughnuts in the canteen and indeed the rivers in the Irish immigrant bastions of Chicago and Boston are actually dyed green. And Elaine has included a photo. I mean, it's just unbelievable with environmentally friendly dye, apparently. Now, although the Irish American vote is not as potent as it once was, US politicians are always keen to prove their Irish connections. But nothing surpassed the excitement when a genealogist traced Barack Obama's family tree and discovered that his great-great-great-grandfather did indeed come from a village in County Offaly called Moneygall. The then Taoiseach issued an invite to visit the place, which was duly accepted.

You might recall that visit took place in May 2011, when Obama met his eighth cousins, shook the hand of everybody in the village, had a Guinness in the pub with Michelle, and generally caused delight, not least with his speech, My name is Barack Obama of the Moneygall Obamas. I've come home to find the apostrophe that we've lost along the way, which is brilliant.

So thank you very much for that, and a happy St Patrick's Day to everyone. He is one of the funniest orators, isn't he, in the business? Well, he is, but apparently rather a coal fish. IRL. No, don't say that. So they say. No. So they say.

That's what I've listened to. I've listened to other podcasts, not just this one. No. He seems to have got a lovely twinkle in his eye and he says very funny things. Well, I think he's got great speech writers because that is a good line. Yeah.

I'm always sad when you cut somebody down. I'm sorry. I hate to do it i don't really who do you actually really like it's a tough one just this we're on mother-in-laws and we shouldn't be uh when i first met my mother-in-law says emma her opening line was good you've got decent childbearing hips you'll need them his head nearly broke me. I am now pregnant after four years of not being able to conceive. Within the utter joy that I'm feeling, there is still a stark warning looming in the background. OK, Emma, first of all, congratulations.

Put that out of your mind. Just because it happened to your mother-in-law, there's absolutely no guarantee of any sort it's going to happen to you. Yeah, and caesareans are available. Yeah, good luck and congratulations. Now, if you watch TV in the 80s and 90s, you'll have very fond memories of our big interview today. It was with Annika Rice. I defy anybody not to now be...

Are you all right? Someone's just trapped in some wiring. Go on. Get on. No, don't be rude. Don't. Were you about to say, get on with it? I defy anybody... honestly, these working conditions. Ed Vasey, by the way, is going to be my co-pilot

for the week that you're away in April. What was I saying? The jumpsuit, the helicopter, Dave the sound man. All of those things, I think, come to mind when you say Annika Rice because of her six seasons of Challenge Annika, which were on a different channel. The new ones, the revamp, is on Channel 5, My 5, Saturday night, 10 to 9. She came in to see us today and we began by asking her if she's one of Jeremy Hunt's economically inactive older people being lured back into the workforce to pay more tax. It didn't come, it wasn't an idea that came from me.

And when people say you're lured back, remember, challenge for me never sort of goes away because I'm still involved with all these projects. I'm very actively involved with some of them, like the Romanian project. So I'm still ticking away quietly, you know, behind the scenes. And it's just that suddenly TV companies started approaching me and going, you know behind the scenes um and it's just that suddenly tv companies um started approaching me and going you know and out of nowhere so i had various chats along the lines and various broadcasters wanted me to come on with a comedian or a co-presenter or whatever it just never quite sat right and then darling ben frow at channel five just went i just want

the program as it is and it was just so refreshing because there was just no you know there was just no frills about it he just said it works it's a lovely format and bring it back and it just tied in with a conversation i was having with monica mcdade who was the school teacher from solihull who set us the romanian challenge 30 years ago and i've kept in touch with and that project's just sort of gone on for 30 years and these orphans as they were and now young adults living in these sort of halfway houses that the charity we set up have built for them anyway and that these halfway houses and these very damaged children mostly because they had such a tough start in life, you know, tethered to cots and no hot water, no electricity.

Where the charity, our charity, has now built these halfway houses happens to be on the border with Ukraine. And so Monica just told me that refugees were coming from Ukraine and I mustn't call them orphans because they're now in their 30s, but they were giving up their beds to the refugees. And it was just such a sort of humanitarian art that it just made me absolutely, I was polaxed by the whole thought of that. And so when, you know, Ben and Channel 5 came forward, it just sort of hit me at that moment where I thought, gosh, that programme, it is worth doing because actually apart from the TV side of it,

you're building a project, you're creating something. And are any of the challenges in this series quite as ambitious as those original ones back in the 80s and 90s? So ambitious that we just didn't nearly finish them, literally by weeks, we we show all that because we're filming in a recession apart from anything else and if anyone who's tried to get some builders to fix something in their kitchen knows you know a a there's no materials because of brexit and b there's no builders you know all the the company's gone into administration

all those things it was the story of now we were trying to do these very ambitious projects but with the most wonderful charities i have to say like a like a food hub with a cafe and a big teaching kitchen who knew that the word food bank or food hub would be in our bank vocabulary 30 years ago so you know it's really interesting that arc of social history and are people still as willing to get involved and to be lured into it just as passers-by? Totally. That was what was so touching. And people would just come up and sort of stroke Dave the Sound Man's arm,

you know, an utter nostalgia fest. And there was one... Dave. Dave, I mean, everyone just loves him so much. I don't get a look at it. I thought you were going to say, I don't get along with him. But that wasn't quite what you said. I can't stand the man. No, but there was one guy.

There's a guy called Ronnie Graham, who was a 10-year-old when we did Challenge in Balmahinch in Northern Ireland. And he sat watching us build this creation and thought, that's what I want to do when I grow up. I want to build something that rises out of the dust like that. And he was the architect on our Food Hub programme. Oh, wow. How bizarre.

And that happened so much with all the programmes that we can't even put it all in the programme because it just sounds like a nostalgia fest. There's no time for anything else if we put all those bits in. There are some... We've only been allowed to see the very first episode, Annika, but there are some very self-deprecating bits where you ring people up and they haven't heard of challenge annika have you heard of challenge annika no no

i say how old you 30 right is there anyone slightly older on the switchboard today could take my call you know that's the glorious thing about it um you know a lot of people came along because they they watched they're my age and they watched and wanted to get involved. And then there were people who were patently grandchildren of people our age. But it was sort of glorious. It was just glorious, I have to say. Annika Rice.

Annika Rice is our guest this afternoon. Why do we just laugh when we see each other? I don't know. But you're right, Jane's having some guffaws over there and I'm not sure what that's about. During the commercial break, she guffawed me out of the room, practically. What's going on?

Do you get a bit annoyed or upset about continual references to your age? Ooh, look, it's a 60-something woman on television. It is always the tagline, isn't it? I know there's been a lot woman on television it is it is always the tagline isn't it i know there's been a lot of publicity and it is sort of but actually um as i say with the with the with chant my dealings with channel five it's never been mentioned it's slightly the elephant in the room but no one ever mentions how actually ancient dave the sound man but you know we're still you know the thing is you don't change as you get older.

I've still got energy and whatever. You know, we look different. You know, people just got to get over that. But also, do you think it is different for women? I mean, there are loads and loads of 60 something, 70 something men just acing it on television. There are far fewer women. There are far fewer women. And I think the real struggle for women is holding on to their identity, keeping that intact.

And it sort of has to subtly change, it seems to be, for women if you want to carry on. I mean, David Attenborough is still abseiling off ice peaks, isn't he? Talking to puffins when he's 97. When he's 97 or whatever. The Rolling Stones have just had their 60 tour. No, you know, there's a few sort of comments, but on whole there are some comments let's be honest so i think everybody you know as you get older you do get the comments but i was particularly pleased because uh treasure hunt

uh the series i did before challenge was exactly 40 years ago and challenged 30 so it's a lovely bookend to my career you know just a nice chance to do something um just to tie it or tie up all the loose ends because there were loose ends for challenge because it's still people still talk about it so much so it seemed like there was something there still to to explore we have a text in um yes jill says look at you jane i know i can tech annika please i can read out loud i've been able to to do that well actually no i can't even do that all that well these days but anyway uh jill says i live in annika's hometown of oxford oh and my friends who knew her as a child and teenager say she's always been a lovely person just thought I'd been a jeopardy there. A lovely person.

No, that's lovely. Thank you for that, Jill. Thank you. Yeah, that's very kind. It's not very controversial, but it's interesting, isn't it? No, it doesn't. There's not a lot more I can give without knowing more about Jill. No, but it's... I mean, had I known more.

But it's a nice start. It might give people the idea that... But you are. You're all right. There could be a bit of to and fro with this conversation. Can we talk a little bit about your relationship with the BBC? Because it's been up and down over the years, hasn't it? Oh, well, I suppose it was all, you know,

I did my training course at the BBC 46 years ago. So me and Tony Blackburn must be the two longest serving BBCers in existence. And so you do imagine you might get a bit of a sort of fountain pen at Christmas or some acknowledgement and that you know it is it is has it is tricky I mean the worst bit was when I lost my breakfast show on radio too with two weeks notice you know having done it for over 10 years and I just got a call from my agent saying you're not doing it from two weeks time and I actually was in a sofa shop at the time and i remember sitting on the sofa shop and just crying i couldn't leave the shop it was quite embarrassing because i was so shocked because you know what people don't

realize as employers that take just taking something away very quickly um you know that's the structure of your life that all these structures are really important to people in employment, aren't they? But did nobody from the BBC contact you? No. No, I just heard from my agent. Yeah, no, that was disappointing. So I did lose that, so that was very sad. But, you know, maybe that happens everywhere. I don't know.

It probably doesn't reflect on me. And then I thought, oh, well, that doesn't that doesn't matter because of course what's going to happen is that they're going to give it to maybe a younger feisty woman and i was all sort of up for that i thought fair enough i've you know i've been around a long time that's fine and then it wasn't it you know it was it it went to a a lovely person dermato leary who I absolutely adore but he's many things but he's not a young feisty woman he's not a young feisty so that was more the shock because I did think oh fair enough I this is fine how exciting I you know good and then it wasn't that but um you know I don't I don't say that with any malice or upset really it's because it's just what it is isn't it and it might happen to any of us and do you

think that you would handle being a young woman very well had you been born an awful lot later so let's say you were a 20 something 30 something at the moment do you think you would have fared well in the social media no buzz of the world? No, I'm so oversensitive. It's ridiculous. So I would be absolutely hopeless. I don't even, you know, I am on Twitter and I am on Instagram, but I don't, if you look at my followers on Instagram, I follow things like big windows and kitchens.

I don't want to know what anyone else is doing. I don't want to be part of that competitive world. Do you know what I mean? People are always having a good time. They're all having such a lovely time in a glass of wine for that reason i do follow you too yeah well don't worry i know very well i'm going to put that on my gravestone it was me and big windows but it's an interesting thing though isn't it because i think it does uh add a huge pressure to all of our working worlds, actually, when we don't really necessarily understand all of the technology,

understand all of those pressures. There's a whole other thing we're having to conquer as well as coming to work to do the job. My niece, I remember, I haven't got daughters. Had I had daughters, I might be terrified. But actually, my sons have just skipped that generation of social media hysteria. They're almost bookish in their disinterest in that whole world. But had I, you know, as you say, if I was of a different generation, I just don't think I could cope with this.

You know, I've heard from young girls who put up something on their social media instagram on their school thing the big schools with maybe hundreds in their class and if if they don't get a hundred likes they literally can't go into class that morning uh you know and it's really tough and i work for a charity where i i'm in a call center talking to people who've got real issues oh my goodness if this is such an issue for young people it's terrifying esteem thing it's the lack of it and you know all of us we just bumbled along in our careers and were very lucky to sort of hit hit moments where we got employed but had no idea whether anyone liked us or not it just was largely irrelevant it was just you got on with your job didn't you yeah

you are the queen of self-deprecation though when we met before and we did an interview with you for our previous podcast you told a hilarious story about the way that your wax work had been melted down when you were no longer popular enough to form a queue in madam two swords and you've ended up where in wookie hole just the head oh it's it was very funny because I was hanging for quite a long time in the foyer of Madame Tussauds just swaying gently because I was on a rope ladder in a jumpsuit of course of course and with headphones on and a map during treasure hunt and then when I had a reincarnation challenge they just put a paintbrush in my hand and I carried on sway way and channel four came around to talk to me about um you know how what a prestige to be

you know put in madame de swords and i stood there rather smugly i have to say and then they said how do you feel now you've been melted down that's the first i'd heard of it it's a bit like radio too all over again i'm hearing all these things from the wrong people well actually we haven't been asked to tell you no it's all right they thought it'd be better if you heard it from us this afternoon because they just shared anyone else but can we just complete the anecdotes otherwise people will be thinking that i've gone mad your head ended up in wookie hole well if you google wookie hole you will see these shelves in a cave somewhere off the M5 of decapitated heads from Madame Tussauds. And so I did a whole stand-up, which is on BBC Sounds,

called Help My Heads in Wookie Hole, because I decided I needed to find that head because I didn't want it just getting dust next to Ronald Reagan. It made me feel a bit weird. So I went on this search for my head, and no-one would tell me where it was, Channel 4. Madame Tissot's wouldn't budge. They wouldn't tell me where it was.

People had sightings of it. Someone thought it was in an exhibit at Sutton Hoo. They'd just put some sort of different body to my head. Do you know what? That would be terrible if you just ended up as a and other peasant in in a museum i wouldn't mind i just sort of vaguely wanted to know that would be so spooky though so you're going along to sutton who you're walking past the exhibit oh is that apparently some are kept just in a pile in um black in the black bull pool tower apparently

there's a storeroom of heads this is the stuff of nightmares someone thought they'd see me there with the crankies at which point i ran i rang madam to source i've got to know and then the woman from channel four press right i'm sorry i keep saying channel four madam to source press just said no i can't tell you where your head is we never divulge that information but can i just say um i didn't used to love you on telly and my daughter and i then thought they've made me into a girl's world you know they've got my head and they're just brushing my hair she's brushing my hair with her daughter this is it's quite dark isn't it terrible very very bleak and we're beginning to get a quite

an interesting insight into what goes on inside your head and i'm i know you've done stand-up i mean you've actually i think it's the bravest and possibly most ridiculous thing a single human being can do why why do you want to do that because I feel my whole life uh is a bit of stand-up really and also the anecdotes of my life lend themselves to stand-up and to be honest the audiences are so warm i did it at the backyard comedy club that's where i do all my stand-up and i imagine no one would turn up and it'd be tumbleweed honestly there's queues around the block of just very sweet people who are full of affection and rather like i'm an old relic it doesn't really matter and honestly i only have to

stand on stage and say jumpsuit and people laugh it's it's i find it very it's a very lovely warm and engaging way to spend an evening yeah i mean um is it nostalgia that makes people laugh along with the jumpsuit concept because but i mean we also do need to make very clear you look amazing now i know we don't want to make a big thing of this because your age is sort of both irrelevant and, I'm afraid to say, quite relevant. How would you get me out of this particular wookie hole I've dug myself into? Well, I would ask the question, do you feel a pressure to maintain a certain level of perfection, Annika?

I know, but thank you very much. I'm not feeling that person at all. That wasn't a relevant cough. I just was a genuine cough. I wasn't sort of clearing my throat thinking, oh God, let's get rid of this conversation. No, I'm not into anything like that. You know, it's not my area of expertise.

I've still got the same makeup bag largely I've had since I was about 21. In fact, I've even got a Mary Quant lipstick in there. What colour is it? What shade? Pinking Sheer. Do you remember that? No, I don't remember it, but I love the name. So I haven't really updated. And in fact, it's very sweet,

because on this series of Challenge, the production team obviously thought, God, she might need some hair and make-up help. I've never had that on any shoot I've ever done, like Treasure Hunter Challenge. There's no sort of make-up lady going, before you carry on building that wall, could I just power through your nose?

So there is genuinely no one there zhuzhing you up? Well, there was for about an hour, and it just didn't work as a concept, because, of course, I was never there. You know, it just didn't work. So she went off home after midday on the first day, because there was just patently no need for it. And if you look at the programme, you know,

we're filming in the winter, it's pouring with rain. I've got 84 layers on. It's not high glamour, is it? No, it's not. But it is lovely. And it's a rather joyous show, which is why it was a success last time. So I imagine Channel 5 are hoping for big numbers this time.

We've put out as the first one a sort of animal sanctuary. It's lovely. I chose that because I thought it would be good to dilute me with a lot of dogs. That was Annika Rice and you can watch Annika's Challenge on Channel 5 from this Saturday, the 18th of March. And she does do self-deprecating very well, doesn't she? She's a very, very funny and clever woman, actually. Yeah, the line, I thought it would be good to dilute me with a lot of dogs.

Yeah. It's a good one. I have to say there are some unbelievably cute dogs in the first episode lightning the little whippet yes and what was the big cuddly the white cuddly one anyway and somebody had to have hydrotherapy and oh it's it's very cheering um i mean you won't be in on a saturday night because're hip and happening, but you can always watch it on My5, can't you? You can. I'm always in on a Saturday night, actually. Just waiting for the taxi driver mum service to begin. Yes, that.

So you can't have a drink, either. You've got to stay sober in case there's a call to go and get a young one. So I might apply for an Uber licence, actually. I think it'd be a healthy way for me to be spending my weekends. Who have we got on the show next week? Garve?

Asma Khan is our guest on Monday and Asma is, well she's a chef but she's rather more than that isn't she? She is a UN food ambassador and she's just come back from a visit to Lebanon where she has been meeting some of the thousands of Syrian refugees who are in the camps

over there. Yeah, I mean it's going to be really interesting and we do try to mix up the guests on both the live radio show and the podcast because it can't all just be showbiz, can it? Oh darling, it can't be. It can't be. No darling, we can't get stuck in that rut. We don't want to get stuck in the showbiz rut. Far from it. Right, I'm

off. Have a very, very good evening because you can join us tomorrow as well. Right, I'm off. Have a very, very good evening, because you can join us tomorrow as well. Yes, what she said. Goodbye. You have been listening to Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler

and the podcast executive producer is Ben Mitchell. Now, you can listen to us on the free Times Radio app or you can download every episode from wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget that if you like what you heard and thought, hey, I want to listen to this, but live, then you can, Monday to Thursday, 3 till 5 on Times Radio. Embrace the live radio jeopardy. Thank you for listening and then you can monday to thursday three to five times radio embrace the live radio jeopardy thank you for listening and hope you can join us off air very soon goodbye