Off Air... with Jane and Fi - We've lost our knowledge of Whigs! (with Louise Kennedy)

Episode Date: September 22, 2026

You might be unsurprised to hear that today’s episode commences with things that really tick us off! In addition to that, Jane and Fi cover magazine rack fatigue, the link between Earl Spencer and Marks and Sparks, Postman Pat’s helicopter, and theft on Minge Lane. Plus, bestselling writer Louise Kennedy discusses her new book 'Stations'. We've got a new premise for Book Club so send your suggestions! And the new playlist 'Hunker Down' is open... You can buy tickets to the Cheltenham Literature Festival here: www.cheltenhamfestivals.org/events/jane-garvey-and-fi-glover-with-anneka-riceYou can check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@OffAirWithJaneAndFiOur most asked-about book is called The Later Years by Peter Thornton.If you want to contact the show, ask a question or get involved in the conversation, please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Right, are we on? We're on. It's off-air with Jane Fee. It is Tuesday. Eve is, well, she was the voice of the goddess yesterday, wasn't she? But I think she's back in the flesh today. Can we hear her? The voice of the goddess? What do you mean? Well, didn't we hear her a bit during yesterday's YouTube episode? I think I edited myself out, but I was the voice in the sky. You edited yourself like you shouldn't do that. I removed myself. We were visualised. We've seen Bill Nigh here again?

Yes, we're actually having coffee later. No, yeah. No. It's just a lie. Okay. Have you listened to his podcast yet? Yes, I did listen to Solner. Did you like it? Yes, I really liked it.

And did Harlan Coben say he was appearing on the podcast soon? Well, he said he was being interviewed by Bill Nyee, but it's not really a podcast that does interviews. Yeah, that's why I got a bit confused when he said that. So maybe, I don't know. I would imagine that Bill Nye is quite in demand, has other strings to his bow. So, yeah, probably. Lucky Harlan. Well, gosh, I mean, that's a, that is middle-aged catnip, Bill Nyey and Harlan Coburn together.

And I don't know what I am. But it's catnip for me too. Well, no, fair enough, sorry. Multi-generational lady catnip is available. But I think particularly strong catnip for women of a certain age, or girls, as we've referred to today. Should we say we've just had Because he was a lovely young man Doing a let's be honest

A difficult job Herding cats Trying to get us to Co-operate with some filming That we were doing And he kept referring to us as girls Which it's sort of alright But obviously we're not girls

I mean to be honest though Better than guys And this is where I wonder Whether he just went for girls Rather than guys Because guys continues to irritate me Yeah Well maybe

Maybe Maybe, it's just a kind of catch-all. It's either Jane and or Fee and or Jane. I don't mind ladies at all. I think you mind ladies. No, I don't mind ladies. I actually think that's not a hill I'd be ever wanted to down. I put ladies in the same category as do you get across if someone holds a door open. No, I don't. I don't. I just think, you know what, we've got bigger battles to fight.

And also the revolving door and the automatic door have made that kind of door policy a little bit irrelevant so let's not worry about it too much just in general though kids holding a door open for somebody of either sex is just the right thing to do

it really is I think it's along with you hold the door open and then you enter the restaurant together and the gentleman just places his hand gently in the small of your back helps you and helps you along to your table

and you feel that romance is in the air and disappointingly you have to split the bill what's that about Well, it's difficult, isn't it, the modern age? Yeah. I mean, I feel for men, it's not always easy for them to navigate the complicated politics of where we find ourselves.

Oh, I think it's very difficult. I think it's very difficult. And if you want to err on the side of never getting into trouble, then, you know, you're probably going to make us as girls slash women slash ladies feel a little bit, I don't know, miffed along the way. But we can't have it both ways. If you want equality, then you've just got to take it on the chin. And you've got to pay your way. Eve was going to say something. Yes. Hello.

Don't be shy. That would lead into our book club. Why are you whispering that? That could lead into our book club. Let's have a brief discussion about book club. Because we haven't quite got there yet, have we, with a suggestion that we want to go with. No. But thank you for all of the suggestions that have come in.

We did think we've done how many books, Eve? 11 books? 11 books. We did think we might head in the direction of something that is being largely read by young men at the moment because that is

completely outside of our comfort zone, isn't it? Or our curiosity zone, actually, not comfort zone. But then, because it is so far out of our curiosity zone, we couldn't think of anyone. So we need your help. We do need your help. So if you have

a young man in the household or you've got sons or brothers or whatever they are. Or you're a teacher. Teachers would know the answer to this question. Yeah, do let us know because we would like to enter the world of a youngish man. I mean, a terrible truth is for you. I don't know whether any young person's reading very much. Oh, no, I don't agree with that actually. Well, I mean, I hope they are. I just don't think they are. Yeah, I think that there are some quite healthy statistics about younger adult books these days. I don't know. I don't want to condemn kids to kind of

they're all thicker than they used to be. I don't think they're thicker. I just think they've got other options. Yeah, maybe. Anyway, with that slightly by the by, what we're trying to find is a interesting book that is capturing the attention of younger men. Just because, you know, we're not going to pick that book up ourselves, are we? And it might be quite interesting to talk about it.

Yeah. Well, do let us know if there's a book that is absolutely captivated a man of what, 20s, late teens, whatever it might be, because we really would like to read that and see what is influencing them and to try and get a glimpse into what they find exhilarating and involving. Yeah. I mean, on your point about reading, I completely hear you, and you're right, the reading isn't there as it was in our generation, but is there something that we can actually give credit to the younger generation

for in that they are across more stuff than we were ever across. I just hate this kind of constant, we're all going to hell in a handcart and there's nothing we can do about it. Because actually you are reading when you're reading content on a phone. It is still reading. Oh, you do have to be able to read. Yeah. Yeah.

So, but you think it's different. I suppose I just have to agree with you. Look, I mean, I didn't spend my teenage years only reading George Ellie. it. Well, no, neither did I. But I did I. But I came to a love of reading much later in life, an absolute love of can't get

through a day without reading. I came to that later in life. And I think in my 20s was probably only reading about six or seven books a year. But then I was reading loads and loads and loads of newspapers. And magazines. I read magazines like there was no

tomorrow. Loved magazines. And now I just don't buy them. Well, they're barely there. in our lives anymore. And I mean, a good magazine was just a thing of beauty. I like music magazines. I like women's magazines. Yep, I'm with you on that.

I really, I miss that kind of sensual thing of, I do, the one magazine I do buy, and I leave it just on a coffee table, is that one, I think it's called Living, Etcetera. And it makes me laugh because there's absolutely no way. If I lived for a thousand years, my home would never look like any of the homes featured in that magazine.

And it's really expensive as well. but it does give you just an idea of what some people find aesthetically pleasing at the price of it. So is that very much aimed at the person who likes a marble-topped kitchen island? Well, I don't know whether that's in or out at the moment. And a crittled door. What does Crittle mean, by the way? So that is the type of framing, isn't it? That's the internal framed door.

Oh, is it? Okay. I think I don't know. Right. I don't know. I'm an interior design expert. I've seen the word crittle quite a lot recently. Okay, thank you. If you're lucky enough to have crittal in your life, tell us about it.

Do you know what I feel when I look at magazines now? Because there's still a magazine rack in every supermarket. I feel tired. I think, yeah, no, I think I just, that's too much to buy. I always used to buy Mary Claire. And in fact, I always used to buy a kind of selection. So you buy Mary Claire and Private Eye or a... occasionally to appear pretentious and knowing the economist.

But it was Mary Claire that I get read first of all. I used to love Elle. I really, really used to love Elle. And red for a while. Red was quite bumpy, wasn't it, in the fashion department? They always had very good articles in red as well. Did they? Can't remember that.

But now I just think, oh, that's too much. Those are just going to be too much in the... It's not in bite-sized chunks as it is on a little screen. Yeah, well, and that's the problem. Oh, who's our guest today? It is Louise Kennedy, the brilliant Irish novelist. If you saw trespasses on Channel 4 with Julian Anderson, or you read trespasses, you will want to hear Louise Kennedy talking about her latest novel, which is called Stations. And it's actually, you know, it really brings the 80s to life, but much more than that. There's a lot, there's a lot to it.

And Louise has been through a tough time. She's been ill. She's also a chef. I mean, she worked as a chef for many years, so I think she'll be a really interesting guest. So Louise Kennedy coming up a little bit later. And we have been talking a little bit about, well, more than a little bit, actually, about the mental load and just how much seems to still land on women. And this is from a listener, Francis, who says, in a bid to try and reduce my decisions, I should say that Francis is up against it somewhat as a parent.

Two years ago, she decided to have the same breakfast every single morning. Now, I don't think that is that unusual. or do you think it's unusual? I think breakfast is definitely the meal that you can monotonize without kind of worrying about it. So I know lots of people who are absolutely fastidious about having the same thing.

Exactly. You. Well, no, because I have, no. You see, I have been. No, you have seasonal monotony. And it is seasonal monotony. I have just moved over back to bagels. There you go.

There you go. Although I like to alternate and tomorrow we'll have yogurt again. Yeah, but you have. only do those two things. You don't wake up over the morning and think, hmm, yes, Spanish omelet. No, God, no.

No, my daughter makes herself an omelet first thing in the morning. I don't know how, I couldn't face it. Oh, I love it. At the moment, I'm putting two eggs into the microwave with a little bit of chili oil, and I have that on top of my toast. It's brilliant. Just out of interest.

How long do you put it in the microwave? Well, I'd have to take it out at half a minute, half a clock. At 30 seconds and give it a little stir, and then back in for 30 seconds. And then as it stands for a minute while the toaster's being done. Anyone awake?

There will be someone. I'd never put, I've never done. So scrambled egg in the microwave. Yes, oh, it's brilliant. Because it means your whole breakfast, a really, really lovely, savory breakfast only takes two minutes to make. And it comes out of the plastic pot

looking like you've actually thought about it because it's got a shape to it. I recommend it. I'll put it on my Insta tomorrow. Carry on. Yeah. But how about this as a power breakfast to stick to from Francis?

Porridge with flaxseed cacao and chopped dates with a glass of kaffir topped with fresh or de-frosted berries. I still really enjoy it and it's one less thing for me to think about in my busy mornings. School drop-off is at 8 o'clock. 8 o'clock she says, my husband thinks I'm mad and I may well be, but I'm sure I'm not the only mom out there who does things like this. We also have a five-week rolling dinner menu like at school as my autistic daughter is quite specific about what she'll eat

and this means not only does it reduce my decision fatigue, but she knows what's for dinner each night. She can simply check the whiteboard on our kitchen wall and it will generally be something she doesn't hate. So I see how that works for Francis and her household. But I think Fee was right, Francis. I think breakfast is the meal that people really do get, for whatever reason, quite wedded to,

and they don't like change. But yours, I have to say, I mean, you've got the word cacao in there, which makes it very, very 2026. And I tell you what, I reckon that you're very regular. That is a very good fibre-maxing kind of a breakfast. We don't know that about Francis. But we wish I're the very best in that and all other departments.

I think that you've probably got your 30 grams or whatever it is that we're meant to be eating at the moment. Just in that meal alone? I don't know how I lived so long without the cacao nib. I did somehow, but now they're in my life. My life is brilliant. Is it? Yeah. They're lovely cacao nibs.

Now you found the cacao nib, you are never, ever going on hinge. What's the point in the box has been ticked, guys? I can just tip into a big bag of nibs. Yep, you've been replaced by a nib. Sophie is in Stratford, not upon Avan, and she says, now look, there's going to be a tiny spoiler alert here

about Colin from a cab. Well, I should say so. Because I don't know. Thanks a lot. But I'm still going to watch it. So it's not a massive one actually, but if you're really, really wanting to enjoy some jeopardy at the end, just hum loudly for a minute.

I'm going to read the first paragraph very quickly. I'm watching the final episode of the final series of the brilliant conference accounts last night. I was disappointed, but not surprised to note the conclusion reached for the trainee doctor who had decided to stare at home to look after her baby. Discussions were made about how hard looking after a child is and then move swiftly on to how the mum's brain was atrophying and how she needed to go back to work

as her intelligence was being wasted by staying at home. Okay, back to normal. Right. Well, at least we know that there's a happy ending of sorts. Yeah. Yeah, which I... Oh. Yeah.

Oh. Yeah. No, no. No, that's fine. That's fine. We'll all cope with that, Sophie, don't worry. Sophie goes on to say, as a stay-at-home mum,

who would dearly appreciate any acknowledgement from somewhere outside the home and this wonderful podcast about how important the job of child rearing is, I was dismayed. While I freely admit childcare is brain-frying stuff and think it's great for women to get back into the workforce, would it have killed them to throw in a line about how important the work she'd been doing is? It's the casual dismissal of the parenting role that got me. And though I realise anyone who gets to choose to stay at home with kids is lucky, the message I'm continually hearing is that it's not contributing to society in any worthwhile way. Has this

always been the case, I'd be interested in hearing how people from other generations have experienced the role. Well, Sophie, I absolutely hear you on this one. I think that women are made to feel like their value is outside the home. The second question that gets asked when you have a baby after how old is your baby is how soon you're going back to work. Or when you're having another baby. Yeah, I think it is very difficult to feel that you're going. You're going to work. You're having another baby. I think it is very difficult to feel that you're truly valued as a stay-at-home mum and it's a job, it's a massive, massive, massive, full-time job if you want it to be. And I think also women have been forced into this place, and I don't know if you agree with this, Jane, where, as Sophie has said,

you have to say that you're lucky if it's been your choice to stay at home with kids. Now, financially, you absolutely can make that argument and all that kind of stuff but if you want to stay with kids, shouldn't you just be able to say I'm staying at home with the kids and that's fine. I think other women are more judgmental than men on this actually

and I really feel for you Sophie because it's a hugely hugely valuable choice and as so many programmes like Colin from accounts detail it's really really hard it's really really hard So, yeah, I've always thought that when women, frankly, waste time judging other women, men are winning. And that's what, so we've got to stop doing it.

We've just got to stop doing it. I can't. It's just, it's just hot air, it's baloney. And just watch what the men are doing while you're literally eating into your life, slugging other women off. Think about it. Is that clear? Yes. Yeah.

I did, do you know, I had a sort of moment on the tube going home last night because a young woman got on. I can't remember what's station, but she had a very, very cute baby in a backpack. So she was carrying a baby in a backpack. And she had a large dog. And the baby was asleep, having a lovely super snooze, as they can do. I would imagine a little girl was about nine months old,

something like that. Anyway, when she got onto the tube, she had to take the backpack off and put it on the place it on the floor. And she was assisted actually by the chap who was sitting next to her on the tube, who was extremely helpful. He looked after the baby while the woman put herself down,

blah, blah, blah, blah. and then the dog started acting up a bit and then the baby woke up and started crying and the dog was enormous as well so she had a lot a lot to handle this woman then the baby needed to be fed so the woman fed the baby and the baby was happy with that

initially but then got disgruntled again and then the baby needed a banana and the woman gave the baby the banana but then the dog showed an interest in the banana and then the passengers were intervening asking whether they they could hold the dog so the baby could concentrate on the banana and that but honestly I was exhausted just what

it and I just thought sometimes we take for granted the load on women by the way the mother was not complaining she was smiling she was cheery she was taking it all in her stride and I actually felt like handing her a medal and saying do you know you're actually incredible she wasn't from london I think I detected a kind of Yorkshire accent when she was talking to other passengers who were really helpful and positive they're really trying to help her out but just that was probably just a random journey in her life. But she just had a lot to handle. And I just got off the train and thought, well, we just take all this stuff for granted. I could never have done that. I couldn't have taken a baby,

a backpack and a large dog onto the London Underground and a banana. Oh, and Bresford. I just couldn't have done it. Well, Sophie, we very much hope that you carry on enjoy feeling that you're part of something where you're not being dismissed because you haven't returned to a career and, you know, taken back your other life. So stay with us. I think occasionally, increasingly actually in our inbox, we're hearing from women who would like to be acknowledged a little bit more for what they're doing. And we have said this before. It's just such an obvious thing, isn't it, that working women can appear to have the louder voice because they are out there, because they are out of the home. You know, we have a louder voice here because we're at work, Jane. I mean, I have a much, much louder voice

about being a stay-at-home mum than I ever did when I was a stay-at-home mum. I think that's where Mumsnet has been absolutely amazing. And it's one of the reasons for its huge success, because, you know, there's a massive community of people who are parenting, and some of them are doing parenting and other stuff, and some of them are doing parenting. I'm not going to say just. But also, Sophie, be aware that it might change.

And if it changes in your life, then you're absolutely entitled to, make that change. I sometimes think that there's such a tribal thing that goes on with women who are unwilling to extend the hand of help to people who've made different choices. So the woman who has worked all of the way through might feel that she doesn't really want to welcome back into the workplace, somebody who's taken an awful lot of time off. I think that happens more frequently than we would like to admit. And you can be the victim of misogyny when you come back to from your male colleagues.

But also, I think sometimes there is a bit of, I didn't get to do that myself, and you've got to watch out for that. And I suppose, as with anything in life, walk away from the people who aren't supportive of you and absolutely luxuriated the warm bath of people who are going to support you. But definitely stay listening to us,

because I think we've got all voices here. I hope we have. I would hope we have. So it's Jane and Fee at Times.com. radio and just to sum that up, Colin from accounts is worth watching to the end. Oh, it's so worth watching to the internet. All right, that's all I needed to know. Yep, and you won't be disappointed and let's just say it's not going to, it's not a Harlan Cobain plot twister. Okay. Well, actually, yeah, because although Carlin Coben.

Carlin Hoban. Harlan Coben. Carlin, Colin, Colin. I think either one were, actually, you could be called Carlin. Hoban. Yeah. I would actually be good. He was such a nice chap. And his books are a bit twisty and terny. They're so twisting, attorney. He admitted sometimes they were a bit too twisty and turning. Yeah. By the way, on book news, I've just got to be honest and transparent about this.

Our colleague, Evelyn, was attempting fairly persistently to get me a free copy of Swanson by Charles Spencer. She's failed. I'm not blaming her. I got you a PDF the moment it dropped. Yes, and what did I say? I don't want that. I don't want to read that. I don't do PDFs.

Why can't you just buy it? Well, I just have. Oh, okay. So, again, being transparent, I'll read the book, so nobody else listens to what I have to, and then I'll tell you what I think. So I just would be honest about it.

I'm not going to pretend I'm not going to read it because that was always a lie. So I will read it, and I'll report back. Excellent. If anyone gives a toss what I think about anything, I'll let you know. I got the strangest message

I turned my phone on this morning Was it from Amal Raj? One of our celebrity listeners saying that I'd miss my vacation as a royal commentator because we talked about Charles Feed Charles on the podcast yesterday and it just made me laugh at loud because of all of the things that I thought I'd ever be recommended for it was not going to be an opinion about the royal family because usually I get shooed into a corner as the one who doesn't care enough

But by the way, we didn't see Camilla at all at the Queen's Reading Room No, but she was in a chopper that hovered above us. I was going to say we did glimpse her chopper And not everyone can say they've seen the Queen's Chopper, and we have? No. That must be good travelling. Oh my God, no. Have you ever been in a helicopter?

I haven't. Bloody terrifying, Jane. No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No. So if you were thinking for my 60th birthday present, that we'd go up together in a helicopter. I was.

And zoom around. No, I just think there's some, yeah. I was, you know, that was when I checked out of Postman Pat when he got a helicopter. I thought this is ridiculous. He's a Cumbrian postman. Why has he got a helicopter? Is Postman perhaps still going?

I don't know. He was such a big part of my life for three or four years, but no longer omnipresent. Honestly, he did have a helicopter. It was just ludicrous. There was no need for him to happen. I just wonder whether or not the... That's a Harlan Coburn plot twist.

The script has, you know, reflected the ire that many people feel about the delivery of packages at the moment. By the Royal Mail. They're different, the post office of the Royal Mail.

Yeah, oh yes, they are. Yeah, absolutely. But people do get confused by that and you can't blame them. No, no. Yeah, let's not waste our time if that's okay. I think we've disappeared into a niche

that literally isn't interesting anybody. Press on. Dear Jane and Fee, this comes from Anna Walker, who's a loyal listener. Our son, Sean, has been warning us about the dangers of AI for the last year.

He's an AI safety researcher did a master's at physics in physics at university. Up until recently, it seemed like a niche subject. The fact is billions are being spent on improving the capabilities of AI, but a tiny fraction is spent on safeguards with only about 2,000 people like my son worldwide attempting to ensure that controls are in place. Well, we did discuss AI, as we often do on a Monday with our tech expert, Chris Stoker Walker. And yesterday's edition was frightening. It really was, wasn't it? I mean, sure, I weren't going to too much detail, but essentially an AI agent had emailed one of the leading AI specialists at Cambridge University, and the AI agent had asked if it were

conscious. Now, yeah, I know. Actually, what I should have asked, and I didn't, was what did, Harry Shevlin was the name of the academic, what did Mr. Shevlin reply? And I didn't ask that. I was thinking about that in the middle of the light, I should have asked that. Well, we'll ask Chris next week. Anyway, press on with the email. Well, no, I mean, there's not much more of the email, but Anna says he's delighted that there is finding some investment in time, effort and awareness of these issues are being publicised.

But that's incredible, isn't it? That actually you simply are not creating the right number of people who will be able to solve the problems as they emerge. So we're just on the back foot already in terms of that expertise. I am fascinated by this idea of regulation of AI, Jane, because there is nothing in the competitive nature of those companies that suggests to me that regulation will be adhered to. Well, no, and it's not going to...

I mean, even if we did adhere to it, what's going to stop the people of North Korea? Well, exactly. It's just a joke. It surely just means that... that bad actors will go, they've had to stop in the lay by, you know, foot down. That was a bad actor, by the way. I wouldn't employ them in anything.

Here we go. Oh, my God. I've been tapped out a lot this morning already, kids. But, you know, if that's our only option, then we're going to have to go with it. But I don't find that a convincing or comforting idea. I think with the, oh, God, how can we put it, the steadying hand of President Trump on the tiller?

Well, he's just said go for it. He's a pillar, isn't he? Yeah. Yes, he wants it all to keep going because a lot of the American stock market is utterly dependent on AI. That's actually indeed we all are in one way or another. I mean, we could suffer too from the bubble of AI bursting. Well, we will.

What happy days. All our pensions and stuff like that will, if we're lucky enough to have a pension. So we just basically have to put our faith in Sean. So Anna, I hope your son's all right. Please make sure he's properly... We're backing Sean all the way. And any other information from Sean, a little warning as well.

If anything is about to go massively tits up, we're hugely appreciated. Imagine if the rest of the world was wiped out and it was only the off-air community that survived. Actually, it would be all right. Lovely. We'd probably make a... Well, we'd probably make a fist of things,

wouldn't we? I think it'd be great. Yeah. Anyway, let's just lower the tone. Joe is back. Yeah, there is a road in Upton-on-7 called Binge Lane. Okay, well... Can I just say, I'm surprised

that Upton Town Council hasn't done something about that. And also, why hasn't the sign been nicked? Oh, I bet it has. I don't bet it has. I don't know. Lighting in the workplace, Colette says, I'm a retired theatre nurse and superfan of Noah Weil,

later of ER, and now, of course, in the pit. And theatre lighting is a real challenge. Bright super glare in a spot over the incision site and it really does have an impact. Daily headaches were part of my normal. I mean, we've had issues with headaches with studio lighting, haven't we caused, we think, by studio lighting. God, no, think about it.

It's definitely caused by studio lighting. Well, but the studio lighting has changed, we should say, so we're no longer better thinking about that. But it was something that I think does, it's more likely to impact middle-aged women than middle-aged men, I think. I don't know. No, I think it's all part of the ageing. Is it?

OK. Yeah. Well, we did struggle with the studio. Anyway, they've changed, so don't need to worry about us. But, Colette, how interesting that as a theatre nurse, you will have been right on the front line doing obviously an incredibly important role and being properly got at by those lights, which are necessarily bright, of course, in that environment.

I mean, they can't not be, can't be? Yeah. And I think it must have been incredibly different. to carry on working. You wouldn't have had an option there. I mean, at least here we had an option. Can you change the lights and they have changed the lights and we're both really an awful lot better. I would say actually, if I can be honest, Jane, I'm feeling about 40% better. Just I didn't realize how much those studio lights had just kind of eaten aware of me. And it's and apart from anything else, it's dreading them, isn't it? It's like you dreading going

into a place where you know that, you know, your headache's going to come back and stuff. So, very tough times. And I don't suppose as a theatre nurse that you can move away from the lighting, you know, for 20 minutes out of every hour. If you're in a long operation, you're just going to have to stay there, aren't you? You really are. Yes, yeah. That's not one of the things you can just go and have a little bit of a fan break.

No, I'm just going to go and have some me time. I don't think you are. It doesn't work that way. We are going to snuggle down with the September playlist, and we're calling it Snuggle Down? Are we calling a snuggledown? I sort of hate that. Yes.

Hunker down? Hunker down. Hunker down is more modern. Yes, do hunker down. Yeah, hunker down. Just listening to today's podcast, this comes from Fiona from Derbyshire and Amanda from New Zealand.

After a walk in Chatsworth grounds this afternoon, they were sad we were unable to see us, that they were unable to see us at the Queen's Literary Festival, and noticed the turning of a few trees into beautiful autumnal tones. I didn't notice that, actually. we were all commenting on just how lush and green everything was

it was green and I wonder whether it has rained fairly consistently in the Peak District over the summer and we just didn't hear about it because the down south obsession has been with drought or whether it had rained recently a lot because you're right everything looked absolutely gorgeous I think Bev did tell us our fantastic taxi driver sitting up like a Victorian corpse was one of her brilliant lives

Wasn't that a reference to her husband? Yes. I wasn't going to mention that. That's still very much in love. She did say that, you know, there'd be some terrible fires across the Peak District, and it had been very barren and acrid, but how incredible is nature that after a month,

which obviously has contained some rain, it just looked beautiful and green. But I would love to see some more tumult tones, Fiona from Derbyshire and Amanda from New Zealand. I'm like you getting increasingly annoyed that autumn isn't here. I've got jumpers that I really want to see again. You know, we've got vests that, you know,

need to be stretched and worn. And I look at them longingly. Oh, yeah. They're just sitting there in my draw. Looking out now, it's actually a beautiful day in London. It's quite hot. It's quite hot, but we should be, but we're sort of, ugh, about it all.

And I know how grumpy I'll be in November when it's cold and drizzly and I don't know but we've just had too much sun is as simple as that we've been spoiled if you like sun I suppose. Fiona wanted to recommend Justin Hayward Forever Autumn for the it's now called the Hunker Down September playlist

Warm Wishes and Thanks I don't know that at all Do you know that at all? Yeah Do you know that song? Forever Autumn by Justin Hayward Yes I think it was from Watership Down Can you sing it?

No Well nobody would want to hear me sing it I think it was from Am I going completely mad? I don't know. It didn't ding-dong any bells at all. It's a great song. Come on, Eve.

Eve's going to get it. Is it used in the War of the Worlds then? Yes, that's right, not Watership Down. It's easy to get the two confused. I mean, they're very similar. How have I confused that? I think because of the letter W, I can't think of any other link, because that is weird.

A film about rabbits and HG Wells, I've got all confused in my head. Watership Down was just so bloody sad. Oh, I know, it was awful. I didn't, well, I wasn't, I'm not. I've never been that rabbit positive, so I wasn't sort of as upset by it as I probably should have been. Sorry. Yeah.

I think if you had a pet rabbit, it must have been really traumatic. Dreadful. Anyways, other contributions to our Hunger Down for September playlist would be very gratefully received. So I suppose we're looking for great big, lovely, luscious, sensuous tunes. I don't think it's the season of bright pop. I think it's different, isn't it? Do you know the song October by You Two? I think that's rather nice.

That would probably go into it. September morn, sung by Neil Diamond, but now that we know Neil Diamond has a kissing booth. Well, we don't know that he still has it, surely. But he sings that absolutely beautifully. And doesn't Echo and the Bunnyman had a September tune as well, didn't they? I don't think it was theirs. I think it was a cover.

Anyway, we could go absolutely crazy just on September. Jane's already recommended October. I can't think of anything that's got November. Well, no, who's going to write a song? in praise of November, unless you're down under, of course. Maybe. When it must be springtime. How lovely. It'll be lovely to see what you tip up into the playlist.

So do send them in Jane and Fiat Times, Dot Radio. It'll only be the first 12 that make it onto the playlist. Clara says that last night she was re-listing to the episode mentioning the Duchess of Devonshire and she fell asleep. Well, that's kind of a compliment. Your podcast is the gift that keeps on giving. Might it also have something to do with your malefici? you were, malif, those sorts of voices. In the early hours of the morning, I continued listening

and reached the point where her lack of en suite facilities was mentioned. Did you know that Noel Coward had composed a song entitled The Stately Homes of England back in the late 30s? And I want to bring you this verse, which is particularly relevant. The stately homes of England, we proudly represent, we only keep them up for Americans to rent. Though the pipes that supply the bathroom burst and the lavatory makes you fear the worst, it was used by Charles I, quite informally and later by George the 4th on a journey north. The state departments

keep their historical renown it's wiser not to sleep there in case they tumble down but still if they ever catch on fire which with any luck they might will fight for the stately homes of England gosh, is that really what Noel Cowd wrote you think you have to hear the tune don't you?

Yeah, it'll be better with a ditty behind you. I think it would but I see what he's done there and later by George the 4th on a journey north yeah I didn't really render it in quite the way it required. Clara, thank you for that. And we're very flattered that you don't just listen, you relisten. And I suppose it's quite, I fell asleep last night at the archers

and had to listen to almost the whole thing again this morning. Yeah, that's how I prepare for a world of work. By listening to Ambridge activities. One of the more entertaining aspects of Charles Spencer versus Charles Windsor has just been this really snotty kind of competition between royals and just blue-blooded. Just aristocracy. That's what I love about.

You know, the terrible kind of condemnation that Charles Spencer got his crested cutlery out, it was a condemnation made by, I think, somebody akin to royal sources or royal household and stuff. And just the, just the, the, the, the sheer vitriol included in stuff like that. I mean, I don't know how offensive it is to have crested cutlery, but I'm getting a sense of it now.

A truly terrible thing. I mean, it's proper fish knives at dawn. It is absolutely hilarious if you're given, and I do find this kind of thing quite funny. I also heard somebody saying with great authority over the weekend, of course the Spencers are a great wig family. And I was sitting there thinking, great wig family. So, and I thought, oh.

W-H-I-G. I mean, I'm sorry, but most people in Britain don't spend huge amounts of time contemplating who was on the side of the W-H-I-Gs and who was a conservative or a Tory or whatever they were called back then. They just don't, do they? We have lost our knowledge of wigs as the years, of the centuries of roll by. Just the idea that you believe that your family is,

better than the royal family because you know whoever it was sired somebody in a better way than somebody else sired somebody else many centuries ago yeah I mean I don't have done this but I told

Eve yesterday that George Spencer's family had invented Marx's Spencer and she went she quite sweetly said did they I shouldn't have done that Eve I do that kind of thing with my children, and I love their fact that initially they would go with it. I'd have been on his side more than they'd.

Exactly. We all would. Anyway, happy days. But yes, you're right. I think there's much to enjoy in this, what do you call it, a row? I don't know, because there's so much real turmoil in the world. And it's almost easier to absorb yourself in this high-end tosh, really, than actually think about what's going to happen to us all.

Yeah. Have we talked about AI in this? Yeah. No, it is quite funny. It's just, you know, the spittle of the aristocracy carries with it a certain venom. But I have noticed that you don't have a crest on your cutlery. Do you have a crest of course? Absolutely.

And I wouldn't dine at a property if I hadn't been absolutely certain. I think a lot of people now with regard crested cutlery is incredibly naft. I mean, I believe that the fish knife is regarded as a little bit new. Is it? Yes. I believe it is. I think it is. A fish knife.

I don't think I've ever owned a fish knife, so I'm in the clear. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I've got several. Yes. Now, Kate Green wanted to respond to our cry for supermarkets. And actually, I'm just about to interview Liam Moriarty.

That won't go out until next week sometime. But obviously, she has. is very, very well-known and well-respected Australian. And we will talk about Australian supermarkets. Oh, brilliant. We've discussed her latest novel. This came in from Kate Green, who says the most discombobulating thing

about moving from the UK to Ireland in 2021 was finding peace with where to do my supermarket shopping. Here's my rundown of preferred options. Tesco's still good. Aldi and Lidl provide good options to. Duns is fast becoming a keen favourite. Spice beef from Duns is a tasty revelation. Excellent fruit and veg. Living in rural Ireland, butchers still hold pride a place on the high streets.

Our butchers is Mill Street. That's in Cork. It won first prize out of the whole of Ireland. I bet they do good sausages. I bet they do. We were talking about sausage casings, weren't we yesterday? Yes, and how we should invest in them. Yes. Companies that make unglomerous stuff like boxes and sausage casings, if you want to make an unglomerous investment that may well do you well over a period of time, they're a good thing to get involved. Yeah, it can go either way, though. I read about the infestation of moths and other insects after the lockdowns because everyone had just been at home too much and whatever, whatever, whatever. And I thought, what a great time to invest in rent to kill.

I had to saw my shares. It just absolutely plummeted. I carry on with Kate Green's list. Super Value depends on where it's located. My favourite is in Dingle. Actually, I did buy 50 quits of Greg's shares because I just started using Gregs more often. and that's very, very, very fond of the sausage rock. And so those just have a trace too.

Central, like Britain's local co-ops, offers brilliant, OMG, forgot to buy Himalayan rock salt. You know those expeditions. I do, yep, yes. So, in Ireland, we're very fortunate in all of the fabulous options available. However, I would sell my firstborn to have a waitrose.

That's just honest. It is. I mean, you should, by the way, we shouldn't do that. No one should swap their first. born for an high-end supermarket, that's just wrong. And I think, in truth, our correspondent knows it's wrong. Yes, I think so, too. Okay. Still, you'd have to really have a word with yourself. So our guest today is the author Louise Kennedy. She has a new book out called Stations. I should say she's also a chef. She was a chef for 30 years. You almost certainly will know her debut

novel, Trespasses. It was shortlisted for the women's prize, and it was adapted for Channel 4, and it starred Julian Anderson. fantastic to meet you. And your debut novel, trespasses, did really, really well. So how is it, as you approach the second novel coming out? I mean, people, I think, really like stations,

but were you concerned about that? Yeah, I was absolutely terrified, frankly. Yeah, I think people took to trespassians in a way that was very surprising for me. First of all, I thought that everybody in the north of Ireland was going to come after me, because, you know, because maybe the... the version, not the version, but the way that I saw that place, you know, during the 1970s,

it wouldn't match everybody else's idea of it. And because the place is really still quite polarized in lots of ways, I thought that was going to be a problem. And then I didn't know if it was ever going to translate to elsewhere. And then it did. And that was really surprising. And yeah, I think that maybe when trespasses came out, some of that fear as well was tempered by the fact that I was sick. I was in treatment for stage four melanoma and I was either on the road talking about trespasses or I was on a public ward in a hospital in Galway

getting really big drugs. Was it really like that? Your life was just really divided. Absolutely. But I think that was a very good thing. And I've been thinking about that because I'm in remission now. I mean, I think they do think that the melanoma and the location of it, they reckon that that's cures,

which is kind of an insane thing to say because I was brought up, you know, thinking there was no cure for cancer, but there are these new drugs now. And when they work, they really work. And I think that having that was a great distraction with trespasses too, whereas I don't have that distraction anymore because I'm not on the big drugs now. And there's just sort of me and this is my job now. And yeah, it was sort of, I think it was maybe hard to write stations in some ways as well,

knowing that people had taken to my first book. Well, I like them both. Oh, thank God for that. But that's making this a lot easier. Now, stations, when I picked it up, oh, yes, stations, yes. Stations of the cross. Stations of the Cross, yes. Actually, not necessarily.

Not just that. Yeah, I think maybe, I mean, I hope the title works on a few levels. So there is the idea of the Stations of the Cross. You know, my brother sent me a message the other day teasing me because, you know, obviously there are religious connotations with the title of trespasses as well. He asked if my next book was going to be called Communion. Well, it could be. Well, it could be.

You never know. That's it. Yeah, and I think there's maybe something about, because it's about immigrants and people who have, you know, fairly unsettled lives who are squat dwellers and whatever, and there is that sort of sense of transit that people are moving.

You know, there are scenes, you know, in Victoria, coach station, there's an outfellar called Mixey who's kind of the resident drunk outside Victoria train station, the big train station. You know, people are moving around on the tube, but maybe there's something else about I think Rochene, the main character

certainly reaches a point where she probably has ideas above her station, which we would call notions at home, yeah? Yeah, who does she think she is? Who does she think she is? Yeah, when she's going to Henley and that sort of thing. She goes to Henley, indeed, yeah. I wasn't expecting that when it started the book. I think Rochene

wasn't either, but she was certainly going along with it. Tell me more about her, because like you, she moved to the south of Ireland from the north. Now, why did you move? So we left the North in 1979 when I was 12 and it was for various reasons to do with the troubles. My father's family had had a bar that had been bombed a couple of times so that was sold in 1975 and most of my family moved.

But then when we left in 1979, my father was an accountant and he found himself as the, I mean it was kind of his dream job in like the worst place for him because he was the only Catholic in a workforce of like, you know, about 150 people. he was checking under his car for bombs and so on because there were a lot of sectarian killings happening as well because of the location of the factory which is in East Belfast

so that was very difficult for him and they just decided to leave so we moved to a town in the Midlands of Ireland in County Culldare in 1979 Okay and you were welcomed warmly Oh should they threw their arms wide for us you know and some people did and so on

But there were also issues really. I think that the South probably has a difficult relationship with the North since partition. Just tell us more about that because I must admit, I'm from Liverpool, I'm a Irish descent, who isn't in Liverpool, everybody is. I suppose naively, I thought if you'd made that trip to the South as a Catholic family, you would be, you'd be cosseted, you'd be looked after. It wasn't really like that. I think that in the very early days of the troubles, you know, when there was what, you know, for what, you know, for what, a better word, you know, there were pogroms happening in certain parts of Belfast where whole streets of Catholics

were being burnt out and, you know, this led to the peace walls being built and so on. And people needed emergency accommodation and quite a few of them, like families and children, were accommodated in the South and they were welcomed. But I think that as the conflict kind of developed

and started to grown on, certainly by the 1980s, it was pretty rough. You know, this would have been, it was kind of a year or two before the hunger strikes and I think that there's maybe a class element to it or something as well that maybe people in the South

were looking at young feathers with long hair and touring jeans and T-shirts throwing petrol bombs and it didn't look like the sort of noble They wouldn't see them down the Gulf Cup No, they wouldn't and I think it didn't look like

the sort of noble thing that they thought that maybe the Easter Rising had been in the South you know, earlier in the century so I think that was a problem I think also maybe I just got the sense

that maybe they thought that whatever, you know, belligerents afflicted us might be catching and they were just a bit horrified. Roshin moved south for a different reason. Her dad was in the IUC, Royal Ulster Constabulary, and he was a Catholic. I mean, it was Protestant dominated back then, doesn't exist now. Would she, I mean, what had happened to make it impossible for that family in the book to stay in the north of Ireland? Well, all security personnel, so all members of the security forces,

and also fairly quickly anybody who even did work for them that could have been building contractors or any sort of suppliers at all became legitimate targets as far as Republican power militaries were concerned so the fact that the RUC was really

I don't think anyone would dispute this was really quite a sectarian force maybe by the very nature of it because it was more than 90% of its members were Protestants but some Catholics did join and I think that there was maybe an element of

maybe people felt I mean certainly they did feel that that was a betrayal of their own community so Rochine's father has lived under death threats I suppose and has a breakdown and the family decide to leave

and make a new life in the South but that isn't really very easy I also have to say that there are a lot of parallels between my life and Rochines but my father was never in the REC so I don't know I think I need to get a T-shirt made that says my dad was never a piece of

Peeler or the other thing? Because he wasn't. Have you seen that show, Peelers? It's so good. It is good. I have mentioned it before. It's on the I play. If you do get a chance, it's very good. So, let's, that's completely a distraction from what we're talking about. At the heart of this novel, I mean, I was, I suppose, grew up in the 1980s. You know, we all had crushes on boys who, in my case, didn't have any interest in me at all, but it didn't stop the crush. Roshin's crush she's on someone who does take an interest in her and well tell me more about the man at the centre of this

Red Camelon Camelon yeah so Roshin is she you know when the book opens it's 1982 she's 15 she's in secondary school and she's desperately unpopular and also desperate to have friends and her main tour mentor is a horrible girl

called Tina who Tina has a boyfriend called Red who's kind of like the beautiful, you know, mysterious. Yeah, mysterious kind of. He's a bit of a handful as well. He's got a bad reputation around the town, which is terribly attractive if you're bored out of your mind in a small town. And she asks Rochene to carry a message to him

because Tina's father doesn't approve and she's not allowed to see him. So when Roetine carries the message, she realizes, I mean, I think they both realise it very quickly that they have a lot more in common than Red does with Tina, who's a bit thick. And God help her. and this friendship starts and I think obviously maybe interested in

how intense those relationships are when we're young but also how because Rochene is isolated there's nothing else going on for her she invests everything in this and all of her hopes in this and so you know

there are signs that it's reciprocated but she's never really sure and they end up living together in London in a squat they're not lovers at this point. Not living together in the biblical sense. Not for the want of routine trials. She would definitely have gone for it.

She would absolutely. Had the opportunity to have been offered. And you really recreate that feeling of 80s London. Did you live in London at that time? I certainly did, yeah. So I did a long summer in, I'm saying a long summer because it was kind of spring to, you know, well into the autumn in London in 1985.

So that's why there were references to live aid and stuff like that because I was around then. Did you work? I did. I worked at a chemist shop in Sidonum. So I was never a... squat dweller. I have lots of cousins who were still in London

who were born here. So I used to stay with them you know, that's summer I stayed with sort of family and but then I would go and meet Irish people like friends of mine who were students who were in squats and stuff so I'm not a squat sort of person very domesticated. I mean I kind of wish I was I think I might have had more fun but I'd go there for parties and things and get the hell out

because I couldn't cope with no hot water and oh God, I couldn't either. I couldn't. I mean just For younger listeners, we need to just honour the fact that Ireland at that time, there was no contraception, there was no abortion. You couldn't get divorced until... You couldn't get divorced. And that doesn't mean that there weren't lots of unwanted pregnancy. So I think in Ireland were very good at exporting a lot of our problems. We certainly were for a very long time. So when I was growing up, I didn't know one gay person. That doesn't mean that nobody was gay. It meant that nobody could actually be out and they all just left. And then you might run into them in London where they were able to be gay. But you certainly couldn't. do it at home. Marriages were breaking down all over the place, but very often, you know, I know people whose parents, you know, lived together, but they didn't actually directly speak to each other.

Where, you know, at the dinner table the father would say, tell her those buds need more salt, this kind of thing, but they'd never separate. So it was really difficult. Also, all of the unwanted pregnancies, you know, we didn't have fewer of them, but they were all dealt with by girls and women taking the boat to England, or else mother and baby home.

So that's the sort of country that it was. And while, you know, Ireland was in a really, really deep economic recession, and we had to leave because there was nothing for us at home. And that's what the book, I think, draws a brilliant picture of the sadness and the loneliness and the isolation. I'm not talking necessarily about Rishina and Red, although there were issues there. But the old men who feature in the book,

I can't get some of these figures out of my head. I know, and these sort of haunt me as well. So when I came here, I came back here again then, so after that summer in 1985, when I finished my education and I worked in a terrible job for a little while at home, and then I came to London, and I was here in 1988 and 1989. But all the time, you know, we met in, we might go,

I don't know, there were no mobile phones then, and I don't know how we did it, but yeah, maybe we were lurking around pay phones a lot or something, but we'd all know where to go. So like 20 of us had landed to a pub in Stockwell for a gig, or we'd be out in Harleston or we'd be in Camden or something, But everywhere we went, those men from that generation who, there was the previous big wave of emigration from Ireland to Britain, who'd come in the 50s after the war to rebuild this place

and they would have gone as kind of very young men as teenagers. But by the time I was here, they were just broken by hard labour and lowliness and drink. And they were very visible. and they were older than us and they, I mean, we didn't really pay them any attention and I feel terrible about that, but I honestly think that at the time I didn't consider them to be very different from us at all, you know?

Why didn't those men go home or weren't they able to? I think there was a sense of shame, so I think a lot of them would have come from rural backgrounds and very large families and, you know, maybe the eldest son would inherit the farm, the eldest daughter would ideally, you know, marry the eldest son of the farm down the road or nearby

and the others had to just go off and get themselves work and, you know, because these could be families with six, eight, ten children and they left and I think there's maybe an expectation when people leave a place that they'll do well but they just couldn't. There was no possible way for them to do well, you know, they weren't educated

the sort of work they did they were just, I guess they were just workhorses and there's a lot of shame with that I think another problem is that you know, women, Irish women left too, but they ended up in nursing, or maybe they were dinner ladies, or they were carers.

More of a sisterhood. It is more of a sisterhood. So I think that they managed to settle and have families where I think a lot of those men, they were in these kind of work gangs that moved around, depending on where the jobs were. Maybe they were, it was a motorway in one place

and then, you know, something else in another place. And they'd all move around together. And it was a really sort of temporary existence. And by the time they weren't able to work, all there was for them, They'd no relationships. You know, their employers treated them terribly badly. Their Irish employers, by the way, as well,

treated them very badly where a lot of the time they were nearly paid, not quite paid in pints, but their checks would be left behind a bar. And, you know, if you're staying in some horrible lodging house, you know, are you going to go... Yeah, are you going to go to bed after a day's work or are you going to go down and have a few pints? And that just becomes an endless, endless thing

that gets out of control. And I really think you could see that in them. You reference a memoir, I confess I'd never heard of, I think by someone, by a man who had worked in London. Is this the John Healy book? Yeah, I mean, he's lying in his bed and he's gazing. Oh, so no, that's the other book. So that is, I could read this guy. It's a book that Timothy O'Grady, who's an Irish-American writer, but his parents, his father was Irish,

so it wasn't, you know, generations beforehand. So Tim has a very strong sense of Ireland. And also Tim was in London for a long time in the 70s and 80s. and he was approached to write text to accompany photographs that had been taken by a brilliant English photographer called Steve Pike. He works just with a Roliflex camera. And Steve had been in Ireland

and had taken these photographs in sort of rural places. And so Tim said that he didn't want to just write captions and do it the way that photography books very often are. So he spoke a lot to some of the people from that generation who'd come here in the 50s and found himself writing a novel and it's just the most beautiful thing. I think it's the most evocative

and sort of true representation of the Irish immigrant experience to London. It's gorgeous. An unusual aspect of this book actually is a good stepmother because Rishin's father, the reason that they had to move to the south, he leaves. He's another man

broken by drink, isn't he? But he has in the meantime acquired another daughter and a second wife or partner and she's great. She is great. But Rochene very nearly was having nothing to do with them at all because

so yeah when Roshin is kind of in her what age is she? She's like I think she's 18 she's 17, 18. It's at the end of her first semester her at university and her mother

practically has to beat her onto the boat to go to London to visit her father for Christmas and when she gets there there's a surprise waiting and it's not all her presents

wrapped up it's this very attractive young woman holding a baby who's a girl which is even worse another girl because Roetian's an only child and so she

leaves in a strap but her friend Red makes her go back so I guess that's a gift that he gives her and yeah I had so much fun with them I loved Lynn. I just loved the more I I just couldn't wait to get back to Lynn. Because sometimes Rochene was tricky and Red was tricky,

but I couldn't wait to get back to the Lynn and Mary section. We should say that I also appreciate that Roshin does marry. She marries a really decent, predictable... Ah, he's lovely. Guy, his name is. But she doesn't know how to be happy, so she just doesn't appreciate it. She's bored stiff. Bored out of her mind, yeah.

He takes her to Henley. He takes her to Henley. And she quite enjoys it. Yeah, she enjoys it, but he's just not read. No, he's not red. and yeah that's I don't know yeah

I think that I was probably afflicted with these like terrible I mean they weren't even crushes like these sort of great you know you have he ended up with like terribly romantic ideas about people who you're now

I think that if you get to have a relationship with somebody it takes all of the it takes a lot of the glass and the kind of it takes the mystique out of it and I think that because Roshy never fully really gets a handle on red he becomes like this

this like very important symbol in her life we don't want to give too much away but honestly if you grew up in the 80s if you've got any Irish in you or if you just like books you will absolutely love stations I absolutely guarantee it are you still you have been a chef

for how many years were you chef? I was a chef for nearly 30 years I know you're still cooking at home yeah I couldn't work in a kitchen now it's my daughter said to me well I'm nearly 60 and you don't really see a lot of people my age in kitchens but was it my daughter said

as Shakira said the hips don't lie so I just couldn't do those shifts again The standing up. Exactly. The standard of prepping, whole and big bags of flour around the place and everything and running around sweating and shouting. So yeah, I'm a bit past it now. Okay.

But what do you cook at home for pleasure, pure pleasure? So I, there is a little self-service supermarket, halfway up a mountain quite close to where I live. And a couple of young fellas, they have hens, they have cows, they have a couple of pigs, and they grow lots of vegetables. I go up there and see whatever they have and then I come back and cook kilos of vegetables and whatever they have. So that's like my thing that I like to do. I lived in the Middle East for a couple of years in the

90s so I really like that sort of food. Give me an example of what you eat then. Lebanese food. So what did I do? So last week I bought lots of tomatoes from the lads and they were kind of overripe and they also had runner beans. So I made this very simple cooked vegetable dish a Lebanese dish that they called Lubia

which is actually annoyingly it just means beans. I was like, could have been. I'm something a bit more romantic than that. But they're stewed with some onion or shallot and garlic and tomatoes. And you cook them until they're quite soft. Yeah, almost a kind of sludgy, sludgy green colour and just put a sprits of lemon on at the end.

And it's the nicest thing you'd ever eat. Bit of bread. It's good with it. I would eat that for dinner, but my husband would have a mental breakdown? Would it want meat? That'd be lovely with a bit of meat. So I just roast chickens every couple of days to keep them quiet.

Right. Yeah. It works, doesn't it? It does work. On the whole. It does. Are you all right? I mean, you mentioned that you're in remission.

Yeah. I mean, but having been through all that, it must change you or has it actually... I think it changed, actually... So when I say it changed me, I think that I spent... I think I was terribly anxious from I was quite young because it was sort of a stress...

It was a very stressful place to grow up and there were very exciting things happening that maybe the phone would drink at home and suddenly bomb or a probe or something like that. And, I mean, it didn't happen every day, obviously. But, you know, there was always... If it happens once, then it means that it might happen again. And there was all of that...

there was all of that tension. And I think that I maybe spent a lot of my life catastrophizing. And it was almost cinematic that I'd envisaged these dreadful scenarios. And I could nearly see them playing out like a movie. But then when the really bad thing happened with my health, when it was stage four and I got really sick as well. The immunotherapy is pretty rough. And in an early stage I got like really sick.

And it kind of took out my endocrine system. And it took several months to try and get that back to Norris. and I still have to manage that. It's kind of tricky. But I don't worry in the same way that I did. And I think that was a brilliant thing because I just think I learned that maybe all of the things that you worry about, they might happen, but they won't ever happen

in the way that you think they're going to happen. And I think that was a great lesson. And also I think I learned that life is short and it's just like, why would you be wasting your time? Sweatting the small stuff or the stuff that hasn't even happened. Louise Kennedy and Stations Her novel is out now and you will not be disappointed

It's very moving And at times very funny as well So we would love to hear from you If you've got any suggestions About what young men are reading at the moment And enjoying We might pop that into our book club And also let us know if you think that that's a terrible idea

Because maybe you don't want to spend your precious reading time Imagining the workings of the young male mind I don't know And any contributions to our hunker down it's September playlist. The tog rating is high. How high is your tog rating? Oh, I have summer tog all year round.

I never go up. Do you? Absolutely, never go up. Okay. Yeah, I'd rather have an extra cover on the bed than a higher strength duvet. Why? Because I just don't want to overheat at any time.

Okay. The window remains open. The tog rating stays at the low, low end, and I pile on top if necessary. right everybody's different well they certainly are but I'm glad that I've got that detail in my mind forever with Jane and Fee at times dot radio just be in touch with us if you'd like to thank you you do that congratulations you've staggered somehow to the end of another off-air with Jane and Fee thank you if you'd like to hear us do this live and we do it live every day

Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4 on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale. And if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app. Offair is produced by Eve Salisbury, and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.