Off Air... with Jane and Fi - Why would a Mexican bandit be wearing a corset? (with Shaun Keaveny)

Episode Date: October 19, 2023

Fi's about to go off on her jollies but she has a podcast to get through first! Someone should probably tell her that... Before she dashes out the door (quite literally), they discuss fancy dress, testicles and what would happen if we soaked and rinsed Jane. Plus, they're joined by broadcaster Shaun Keaveny to discuss his brand new podcast 'Shaun Keaveny's Daily Grind'. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfiAssistant Producer: Eve Salusbury Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open. Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Right. Are we on?

We're on. Welcome to Thursday's edition of Off Air. I know it probably doesn't matter to you what day it is, but it is currently Thursday here where we are in this life. Do you think you'll have another one? Thursday or life? Life. I'm hoping for both.

Yeah. Yes. I really want to come back as a very, very, very over-pampered cat. That's an option. Definitely better than hamster. I'd like to come back as a bloke. I want to sit around in my pants, which reminds me that my guest, our guest, my guest, our guest is Sean Keaveney. Our guest, Jane. Yes, Sean Keaveney, who I think occasionally

sounds a bit like a bloke who is very happy at home in his pants. And I mean that as a compliment. Yes, I would agree with that. And just the opening for Radio Aficionados of our interview is just, I don't know, it delightfully harks back to earlier times. It's a low level entry to that interview, isn't it? Yeah, but you know, sometimes there's nothing wrong with a low level entry. So thank you for all your emails to

janeandfee at times.radio. And actually, this whole business of grandmothers, it's been lovely, and it's led to some very interesting contributions from you. Earlier in the week, Fee and I were talking about the different options that we've had relative to the ones available to our maternal grandparents, and probably actually to our paternal grandparents in many, many cases.

But this is from Sheila, who says, forget your grandmas, my mum turned 96 last week, left school at 14, went straight to work in an office in Birmingham. Her father didn't believe in educating women, as they would, quotes, just get married, so he wouldn't let her take the entrance exam for grammar school and she was sent out to work as soon as possible. She was an intelligent woman

and we always felt it was such a waste of potential. She stayed in clerical type work all her life without gaining any qualifications and even when she got the chance to take an O level in her late 40s she didn't go through with it. She didn't have any confidence in her academic ability. Her answer to her own experience along with my dear dad was to make sure that their four children had a good education, two in grammar schools, one with a scholarship to the King Edward School in Birmingham, and they paid for the youngest one to go to private school, as it was a time of educational upheaval here. As with many of our generation, we were the first to go to uni, and we have to thank the foresight of our parents and free education for the chances we have had. Sadly, my mum,

who I won't name, is now in a twilight zone between dementia and reality, and she's not able to stand or to walk. We finally had to move her into a care home last year. She had lived independently with the help of carers until she was 95. Wow. She drove until her late 80s and worked until she was 70. She set a really tough example for us to follow. Thank you very much for that, Sheila. When you say a tough example, I know what you mean, but actually she just set a brilliant example, didn't she? She got out there, she made the best of it,

and she kept on grafting, and I think that's amazing. So do I, so do I. Cathy from Derby has a similar tale, really. On my maternal side, I come from five generations of corset makers. Now, do you know what? That's the start of a book I really want to read. On my paternal line, I come from five generations of shoemakers. So you've got both sides of your family, Cathy,

have developed things to keep people in. Encase them. Encase them in a well-fitted trim. That's quite a union, isn't it? Yeah. Have you ever worn a corset? I've only worn a corset. I once had one of those Vivienne Westwood corsets in my much, much younger, more slender days. Well, you're not a big

woman now i wouldn't and no nobody uh can wear one of those things comfortably because they really really really uh dug in it was so uncomfortable and that was a corset made for a you know 20th century woman as it would have been back then so do we make the assumption then that every woman was simply uncomfortable all day, every day? That's appalling. So one of the things that I think about most if I ever think about the Victorian era is just how heavy the women's clothing would have been

because nothing was elasticated. Everything once it got wet would never have got dry. You had corsets, stays stays and undergarment and then another thing on top and all of it was pulled together so you know when you wander around a museum and some of the shapes can be absolutely beautiful but blimey yeah it is worth going to the vna isn't it and having a look at some of those dresses made for women of that era because they their waists are absolutely 18 inches so it tiny, aren't they? It's just absurd, absolutely absurd. They have sort of come back in terms of the steampunk movement, haven't they?

Well, I think they've come back in lots of fashion-y ways. I'm just glad I don't have to wear one. Have you ever worn one? No, actually, just once when I went to a fancy dress party. I think it's the only fancy dress party I've ever been to. And I went as a Mexican bandit. By pure coincidence, at the time, there was an amazing theatrical costumers amongst my cluster of local corner shops.

Of course there was. I just had no excuse. There was no point saying I couldn't go. I could go and I could find a costume really locally. Why would a Mexican bandit be wearing a corset? Well, because I was a lady Mexican bandit. Okay. So you had a corset and a poncho. And a poncho and I had like

a load of bullets around my waist. Gosh. Yes, it was quite a spectacle. And I suppose I sort of half enjoyed it just for one night, but not every day. No. No. I had a fake pistol as well, just for one night, but not every day. No. I had a fake pistol as well, thinking about it. I cut a fine figure.

I don't think that there's a single fancy dress party from our youth and early adult life that would pass the modern test. Toga party? No, I mean, none of it. Tarts and Vickers? None of it, in terms of appropriation and everything. Just dreadful, Jane. really really i think of my dressing up box uh when i was a kid and shudder really i can remember my parents going to tarts and vicar parties can you is that what they call

in the 1970s people did that kind of thing pull up outside the pampas grass and come on in. It's unbelievable, isn't it? Have a Tia Maria and off you go. Do you remember Tia Maria? Do you remember? I don't remember because I've memorised it. The number of Baileys ordered in the Palace of Westminster in the financial year 22-23.

Well, it wasn't... No, it's bottles, isn't it? No, I think it was measures. Measures, OK. Well, that's better. I thought it was bottles. Oh, it can't have been bottles because it was 220. I think it was measures. Measures, okay. Well, that's better. I thought it was bottles. Oh, it can't have been bottles because it was 220. I thought it was bottles.

My God. Okay, for some reason. It was an FOI request, wasn't it, to find out? I think it was bottles because when we were doing the maths, we worked out that it was 37 bottles of wine per MP. Yeah. So we must have done it from bottles. That's shocking.

Well, I can't believe it. Perhaps we'll reinvestigate that. But you're on holiday next week. When you get back, we'll try and work out how many bottles of Baileys were consumed in the Palace of Westminster. That's the kind of journalism that I've come to expect from you. I was only halfway through Cathy's email. Yes, carry on.

I'll start again. Maternal side, five generations of corset makers. Paternal side, five generations of shoemakers. Couldn't be prouder of both sides. Cathy goes on to say, my mum was the first woman in my family to have her own bank account to drive and have a career as a pa she's 92 now and is amazing still pushing the boundaries using social media and whatsapp i'm the first

person and woman in my family to go to university and my mum inspires me every day. I celebrate 40 years as a social worker next year. And do you know what, Cathy? How fabulous to have a mum who has been able to embrace the modern digital age because actually all of that social media and WhatsApp is just so wonderful for staving off loneliness and for keeping you in touch with younger generations. It's always such a shame if there's a resistance to it because i think it's the time in your life where it's actually of the most beneficial use to you i agree um i think it's like the gateway to technology for a lot of older

people is the ipad and if you can just teach people how to use an ipad put whatsapp on it then it opens up a world of communication yes Yes, it makes the days go quicker. Just really wonderful stuff. So how lovely. This one comes from Lynn as well, who put her headphones on, went out for a run and then heard us say something that she really wanted to get in touch with us about. So I'm sorry to have interfered with your running routine there.

She says, how did women of previous generations cope, quietly suffer the women's problems with muttered mentions of the change. We were talking about how little the menopause was talked about, weren't we? A big basin of cold water to step into to lower the temperature when the hot flush in the night just won't let you sleep. Public discussion was considered a no-no by some of my female-dominated workplace, even in the early 2000s. Others of us had discreet discussions.

One colleague had freezing hands, so she enjoyed the burning heat from mine, whilst I enjoyed the cool imparted by hers. She refused my offer, though, to hold my even more burning feet. And Lynn goes on to say, I was unable to have hormone treatment, so can endorse the efficacy of the basin of cold water. I hope Storm Babette is milder than forecast. I don't think it is, actually.

But I love that notion of, you know, I've got very cold hands, I've got very hot hands. Let's join forces. Let's shake hands. Let's see what we can do for each other. That's the kind of an example of cooperation that we could all do with hearing more about especially at the moment

Sandra says and I'm just going to punt this one out there because I haven't actually seen this yet Sandra but I am going to watch it I was interested in your conversation about the changes we've seen in our lifetime and wondered if either of you have been watching the programme about the victims of Peter Sutcliffe The Long Shadow

I couldn't believe the attitude of the police. The most shocking case was the woman who survived but couldn't get compensation as she had lied to the police after they refused to believe that she wasn't a prostitute. I haven't seen it, Sandra. My sister actually said to me this week, you've got to watch it because you will be utterly incensed. I remember when I was on Woman's Hour, actually,

I remember the day that Peter Sutcliffe died. And if I say so myself, we did actually do justice that day to the victims of that, you know, that terrible man. Because that's, and I gather, this is what the Long Shadow is attempting to do. But they have been really clear about the appalling misogyny, not just of the police, but of the time. You know, things were, this is the 70s and early 80s, things were very, very different then. And you're absolutely right,

Sandra, it is going to be something I should seek out. So I'll probably build up to it because it's possibly not something I feel like at the moment, but I will definitely watch it. We have had quite a few emails saying, please persevere with the book club book. Yes, no, I definitely will. Oh, yeah, I haven't given up on it. No, had quite a few emails saying please persevere with the book club book. Yes, no, I definitely will. Oh yeah, I haven't given up on it. So I'm going to read that over my week off, because I do have a week off next week, because it's the half term, Jane. So you are, what are you doing

for next week? Jamil Kerens is here on the podcast. Yes, she is, and we've got the Hairy Bikers. I think I'm interviewing Tim Rice, well-known lyricist. Remind me, what else, Eve? That was good recall from me, to be fair. Ed Gamble.

Ed Gamble. We talked about Ed Gamble. Do you remember Ed Gamble? We talked about him. Yes, he's lost a prolific amount of weight and he does a very, very successful podcast and he's quite open about his mental health. And Cat Bohannon. Oh, yeah, and a woman called Cat Bohannon

who's written a very, very interesting book called Eve about the female anatomy about female physiology basically and her theory that it has driven evolution and I'm not sure whether it will make the interview that it goes up because I've already done it whether it will actually get on air

but maybe we didn't even have time to talk about it she's very funny about why testicles are outside the body, the male body, obviously. We diverted and went down a male cul-de-sac or avenue at one point because they really shouldn't be because they look a bit... They're very vulnerable. Yes. But they've evolved to be there because they were inside.

But apparently they were even more of a nuisance inside. So at what point did they fall out? Well, it was about 20 to 5 on a... But this is where my teeny tiny brain can't really process evolution. Do you know because it's obviously a very very gradual process. Very gradually. Yes. Our bodies changed but we're talking over a period of millions of years okay that's interesting though isn't it i can't understand because most forms of evolution happen because the human body has to change to face better face the dangers around it so what was it but do you think it was as man kind of stood up and covered himself more,

he didn't need his knackers to be inside? Can I say that? No, no, I think you can say knackers if you want. I think I gather, I'm trying to recall the book now because it's been a while since I read it. But they were, the testicles inside the male body were just bumping up against the bladder all the time. And that wasn't very satisfactory either. So it didn't help with running. Anyway, look, it's also about, because the female anatomy, obviously there's a tendency now for women to, well, it used to be that you had to try to give birth lying down,

which of course was never what nature intended. It was really hopeless and things have got a little better in that department. Women are allowed to roam around, sit on balls, go in birthing pools, all the rest of it. But for years and years, you just had to labour on your back. And it was so, it was just a pointless exercise. Just didn't work. But things have got slightly better. But women's bodies haven't changed, but our babies have got bigger. So the female pelvis hasn't grown to the extent it really needs to. I absolutely concur with that.

Yes. Yep. Hello, Fee and Jane. I too get wind problems after eating lentils, but I persevere, says Nikki. Well, I will. I am persevering. I take a teaspoon of cumin seeds whole with a bit of water and it helps release said wind. That just sounds horrible.

Because cumin seeds, Nicky, they're quite, they're kind of spindly, aren't they? They're not, I wouldn't have thought they were the easiest things to... Eve's glazed over. Well, no, because I'm reading another one about wind. No, Eve's... Oh, Eve. She's stuck on testicles. She's still with testicles.

Well, she's a young woman. Nicky says, in Spain, where I live, she's a young woman. Nikki says, In Spain, where I live, they have a wonderful word for the pain of trapped wind. It is... This is brilliant. Retortijones. What? Say it again. Retortijones.

I know you said yesterday that you went on that Spanish course. It stayed with you, hasn't it? How much did you pay for that? Because it wasn't wasted money. Retortijones. Which is trapped wind in Spanish. I've never copped a sickie, but I might just one day have a sickie with.

Redote jones. I'm off today. I've got that. Yeah, I'll get you to say it for me on the phone. Actually, somebody, there was a really nice letter in the Times today about the onomatopoeic French version of bless you, which just sounds like the sneeze.

Oh, what is it? I can't remember. Oh, OK. There was another funny letter about how, you know, some of the rugby union teams in the World Cup do dances, you know, it's about the hacker and things. And this lady wrote in to suggest that England do the hokey-cokey. And I think that would be nice.

They're going to lose on Saturday. Don't bother watching. Right. This is also about wind. Who is it from? It's from Jackie. She's in Cheshire. Oh, God, look at the time.

So, yes, I know we've got to get a move on, but we do have a lot of good emails and we are very grateful to you, Jane and Fee, at Times.Radio. First of all, I'm compelled to get in touch to share a tip for Jane and maybe many of your other listeners regarding the adverse effects of eating lentils. It is the sugars that cause the wind. You see, the trouble with all these precautions is they are quite time-consuming.

Soaking and rinsing afterwards naturally removes the gas-causing elements. The oligo... Sorry, are we soaking and rinsing you? That's right. The oligosaccharides, which I thought were islands off Greece somewhere, but no, they're a type of complex sugar responsible for bloating and gas. Post-soaking, the complex sugar is remarkably reduced, thereby easing gas troubles.

If you haven't got time to faff about with soaking, just use tinned, but rinse well to remove the sugars. Well, just to complicate matters, I actually use sachet lentils, neither tinned nor dry. Oh, that's a terrible cheats way isn't it yeah it is absolutely yeah yeah so you're using the big puy lentils then aren't you i'm very posh i was imagining that you were just using a nice red lentil no because you have to boil them and oh i've got you know i'm so busy trust a red lentil because all of the other beans I read a terrible

terrible news story once about somebody who ate raw kidney beans I've never been able to have anything you know I can't, I'd have to buy them already soaked. It's on That's Life wasn't it? Yes, really terrible actually, let's not go there it's a Thursday, people have come to us for a bit of a cheer Right, can we head towards Sean Keaveney

Yeah but I just want to mention Yasmin I've got a holiday to get to Crack on! I know, just because I'm not going on holiday, I'm keeping you here. I'm going to hold you prisoner. Yasmin just says, for the Tabby twins that need naming, what about Topsy and Tim? I think that's lovely,

because they were the sister and brother from the childhood books, certainly my childhood. There was a great book, I loved it, it was called Topsy and Tim Build a Bonfire, and I used to get it out very regularly from my local library so Yasmin thank you for that lovely memory and I very much hope that the tabby cats are called

Topsy and Tim. Yeah please give us posted whoever wanted us to christen their tabbies Sean Keaveney is a radio presenter, can I do this now? He used to work for XFM then Six Music where making public the product of his meandering mind fitted perfectly in between tracks. Now he's doing a podcast called Sean Keaveney's Daily Grind, where we'll get more of the same, we hope.

We caught up with him a little bit earlier and just feel the power of this introduction. Hello. Hello. How are you? I'm nervous. Why? Why are you nervous? Well, I don't know. I just think it's weird, isn't it? The modern-day phenomena of sitting in your bedroom surrounded by socks, talking to venerable national broadcasters,

is just a weird paradox to me. Yeah, but it's nice, though, isn't it? It's also lovely. It's nice to speak to you two again as well. Well, it's very nice to talk to you, Sean. I've got an immediate question for you and I wonder whether this is exactly the type of thing that you might want to answer on The Daily Grind. Glyn says, I've encountered boiled egg in a fish pie.

Do you have any thoughts? This is just incredible timing. Did you say the name was Gen yeah yeah thanks glen um i'll take this one um i i personally i despise fish pie oh why i just i don't i find it um to state the obvious it's a little bit too fishy for me we we also weirdly had a debate about amongst many other things, about how fishy salmon was the day before yesterday on the Daily Grind. And I can give you an exclusive.

On today's programme, Drops at 5pm, there's an extensive conversation between me and Ross Noble where we do talk about a harp and Greg Wallace throwing hard-boiled eggs through it. So I think that encapsulates the spirit of the whole endeavour very comfortably. Thanks for bringing all that up. It's an absolute pleasure. Presumably the harp was acting as a very big kind of egg slicer.

Is that the point? Yeah, I think they call them mandolins, don't they? Yes. That was that contraption that your nan used to have where you could put a whole hard-boiled egg in and you squashed it. And it was a wonderfully satisfying implement, that actually, wasn't it?

Are they still around? Well, they are. They're in the back of those catalogues. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, very much so. Very de rigueur. But I'm not sure you should do it with a harp

but look uh we've gone to uh the tiny things haven't we first we need to talk about the big things sean so can you just explain a little bit more about the daily grind uh where it came from how long it's going to be on for all of that type of stuff and why you wanted to do it because actually i was i wasn't surprised and i'm delighted you're back doing a daily thing but i was surprised you were doing something without the tunes in it well quite yeah i mean i mean it's you know potted history in a quick one is that obviously i left the beeb getting on well actually to just over two years ago now and then i started with my very good friend, genius producer Ben, a sort of subscription weekly radio program called Community Garden Radio, which is still going strong, actually. And that's fantastic.

However, I was approached by the good burgers of Global who said, well, you know, we think you're all right. well, you know, we think you're quite, we think you're all right and we think it might be worth a punt you doing a daily podcast because we think that kind of thing could be quite the thing of the future. Because obviously, as you well know, there are a lot of brilliant sort of daily current affairs podcasts and things, but there aren't many that deal with things like Greg Wallace throwing a hard-boiled egg through a harp, you know. So we all decided to...

Well, I don't want to disappoint you, Sean, but one of the big, big topics on ours over current days has been Jane's automated Peugeot pepper grinder. Yeah, there's been a lot of that. I actually don't think podcasts could function without Greg Wallace, in truth. And I wonder whether Greg Wallace knows what a gift to the podcast community he continues to be. I think you're right.

I think just to culture in general, I just wonder if eventually we'll look back on this period in history, two or three hundred years, and Greg Wallace will be one of the great artefacts. That's a terrible, terrible prospect, Sean. Anyway, sorry, we stopped you mid-flow. And actually, we are both very keen to know how you feel about not playing music every day. You know, I've got to be honest.

It's a bit of a relief in a sense, because whilst at six for 14 fabulous years, and I've said it before this, I always felt like by some distance the least gend up and the least cool member of the team, which I actually was. So it's quite nice to have that taken away from me, that sort of daily sort of expectation that I know what I'm talking about, about music, which I don't really. I'm just an enthusiast.

You know, he likes to play it sometimes, you know, obviously. But you must have moments now, though, Sean, when you come across something fantastic and think, oh, I wish I could share this, and you realise that you can't. But is there an opportunity somewhere in your life to praise music and to plug it? Yeah, well, that's where Community Garden comes in because that's a weekly two-hour show,

and I'm going to drop a word in now that annoys the heck out of me. I curate the playlist every week. So I'm always piling great tunes into that. Right. But even that, to be honest, for a man of 51 years old, to be spinning more than one player, it's pretty exhausting. I bet. But, and I don't want to make a factious uh link in introducing this topic into our conversation you did have

quite a recent diagnosis of adhd didn't you uh which i think we didn't we speak very briefly about that when we did yeah came on our previous uh iteration of ourselves and i think it was quite recent to you and i imagine that the spinning of plates you said it was something that you'd always tried to do kind of seven different things all at once yeah you're right and and i i was funnily enough i was speaking about this today with somebody who has a similar kind of sort of neuro diversity if you will. I think the thing for me I found about it was that people would often ask, didn't you realise when you were younger? I didn't actually because when you're young in general,

you've got fewer things you have to do. I did anyway, you know, fewer dependents, you have fewer people you have to look out for, you don't have to do this, that and the other. And it came to a real head for me in the last year sort of post-covid losing my sort of permanent job having to do lots of different things i started to you know not fall apart but i started to the wheels of the clown car started to come off a little bit and uh it started to affect my my daily well-being a bit and my mood a little bit and the people, my loved ones and my kids and my wife.

You know, you're a bit angry again today, aren't you, Sean? So that was what made me realise that I had to seek a bit of help with it and a bit of medication has helped me an awful lot. I've still got a way to go because I think there's a lot of talking therapy you should probably end up doing and stuff like that, which I've not got around to, funnily enough. But in general, it's good, a lot better, you know. Was it easier to control it, if that's the right term,

when you were simply kind of encased in somebody else's schedule and routine? That's exactly right. I think that what I thought, one of the things that I missed about like towards the end of my tenure at the Beeb, I was doing a sort of just the sort of show, the show slot before yours, you know, like an afternoon show one till four. But the thing I missed was from leaving the house at about 11am till coming back at about five you kind of got left alone because people presumed they sort of knew what you were doing and they presumed that you would be busy so there was this whole little oasis in the middle of the day where all I had to think about was work and I had friends and and producers who could help

me do that so and it felt like quite a protected space. Whereas, of course, when you're self-employed and you do all the work from home, with the best will in the world, you're exposed then to the madness of daily life. And I think at the moment, Sean, there's a problem with a shortage of some ADHD medications, isn't there? No.

And I read that and started to, you know, sort of feel a bit faint. I've not thus far noticed it, but, yeah, that's a worry. You know, as I get older and I get more dependent on different little pills to keep me alive or keep my brain straight, I get really worried about that because you think you're so dependent on the wheels of normal life and commerce and society turning.

It's, you know, once you get to, I need my stessins and I need my thyroxine and I need my ADHD, you know, it actually becomes a real-life concern, you know. VoiceOver describes what's happening on your iPhone screen. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate. VoiceOver on. Settings. So you can navigate it just by listening. Books. Contacts. Calendar. Double tap to open.

Breakfast with Anna from 10 to 11. And get on with your day. Accessibility. There's more to iPhone. Sean Keaveney is our guest this afternoon he's got a new podcast coming out called Sean Keaveney's Daily Grind I said in the introduction to you Sean that I I really really loved your show over at Six Music and I was decimated when you left and then I got over it but actually I never really got over it um did you get over the way that you exited the BBC and why does so many exits from the Beeb seem to be so painful no that's that is a fair old question isn't it it took I think that uh I didn't realize how much it had affected me at the beginning

for quite a while. If you understand what I mean, I think that like any big life event, it takes a while to sink in properly, doesn't it? And I think at first I was kind of, ooh, I could do with a bit of a break actually, this is quite good. And then you sort of move through the gears and then you start to panic a little bit. And then, you know, that's when we started to work on different ideas

and I got one or two little bits of work in and I didn't panic. But what I was, it took me a long time to realise was that there was an element of hurt and pain and a bit of anger that I had to sort of put to bed and deal with about the way that I felt perhaps it could have could have happened in a in a slightly different way but then I sort of worked through those gears as well and came to a genuine peace about it because I thought well he's actually a really good mate of mine Murray who who made the point that I think I must have been mourning over a coffee about it

and he said well it's funny though you you always you we wanted to leave for years really the cosmos you know if you want if you want to think of it like that it's the cosmos lining it up for you you don't get how it happened you don't get to choose how it happens got what you wanted and I think he was absolutely right. And, you know, and so after a little while, I was completely fine about that and also very, very grateful. I became very grateful after a while because it was like to have 14 years where somebody gives you gainful employment and a place to do what you do and build your audience is brilliant.

You know, I just had nothing. I mean, I sound a little bit zen about it, but I feel nothing but grateful because of all the stuff i've managed to been able to do since and and the daily grind is like for me it's the apotheosis of what i've always wanted to do i honestly really feel that i feel there's simply no compromise anywhere it's like they're giving us so much sort of resource and support and love and belief and uh me and my producer ben we just we've got carte blanche we're just doing whatever we want and as so in answer to a question that you posed earlier how long you know well it's and hopefully until you know that one of us collapses or, you know, maybe my 80th birthday

or we'll just see what happens, you know. But the fire's in the belly. I'm just really, I'm really excited now. I feel, oh God, you know, I'm 51 and I've got to like the best bit of my career so far. Well, I don't know what carte blanche is, but Fi and I would like that as well. I'm going to stick that on our rider, whatever.

If Sean's got it, we want it as well, please. Are you in such a zen place, Sean, that you've listened to some of the shows you used to present? Oh, yeah. Oh, I see what you mean. You mean like, for instance, Craig's show on Six Music, that Craig replaced me? Yeah, I stick Craig on, you know, especially when I'm in the car.

You know, I don't listen to Six, if I'm completely honest, as much as I used to. But then I think that's probably the way it's supposed to be because I think that it's moving in a direction that... And it's only down without you, Sean, yeah. Well, really, you're... It's down, of course, obviously, everywhere. It immediately loses its efficacy.

But, you know, I don't think it probably wants me as a listener anyway, you know, so that's fine. But I do still listen. And I do like a bit of Craig every now and again, you know, especially at the weekends. You've always got Keris, you know, love a bit of that, a bit of Mark and Stuart. Now, that's enough advertising for an alternative race station.

Keris is a genius though, actually. Let's put that one on. She's incredible. Now I know that one of the only stipulations that you have for recording your new podcast is very low level lighting. Now this is a little bit of a red rag of a topic for Jane and I because as we have embraced Times Radio, and by the way, we I think share an awful

lot of your sentiments actually about leaving a job that we're done for a very long time and coming to a new place and really being able to embrace it but our lighting is very very sharp at Sean so talk us through why low-level lighting really benefits a radio program. level lighting really benefits a radio program well i think it's really important and and not to belabor the point but you guys brought it up actually but yeah when especially when you are a little bit on a sort of adhd spectrum i think that one of the many things that you could find affects you a bit more than other people is is things like lighting the amount of people who who've got similar sort of wiring to me who say i couldn't agree more i will i refuse to have the big light on at home and i was having this exact conversation with somebody the other

day we were talking he's fine if you if you're if you're surgeon, I understand why you need the big light on. But when you're at home or when you're trying to get into a particular mood or way of thinking, click the big light off, get the lamp light on, maybe hurl some kind of fabric over the top of it, as long as it's not a fire hazard. Get the lighting. I think that it's something to do with too much information, too much visual information

and also of course I don't want to see myself in 4K or whatever it is I don't think that it's particularly flattering I prefer a softer light because I mean my eyesight is so terrible now as well I prefer a softer light all round

It's such an emotive phrase I think it's from the 70s put the big light on for a softer light all round. It's such an emotive phrase. I think it's from the 70s, put the big light on. It's, what has that conjured up in me? Some memory of, I don't know, because we didn't, growing up in the 70s, I don't think we had, and the 60s, we didn't really have lamps, we just had big lights. Not strip lit, but, you know, because that's institutional. So at what stage of an evening would someone say put the big light on?

That would be when you all got up? Yeah, or if you were a kid afraid of the dark, there'd be something about leaving the big light on overnight in the hall. I don't know. It was just something that came to me. I probably forgot I was on radio there. I think you did. Carry on. It was a little moment of loveliness. Yes, thanks.

We ought to be careful as well. I think the 50 minutes of our hours therapy session is almost up, Sean. It has been a meeting of people who left the BBC who were all joined together on a small podcast for a while. And don't like big lights. And don't like big lights and have ended up in very happy places. You know, I think you said that you are hoping very much that your listeners become a kind of essential part of the daily grind.

So you need people to provide some kind of fertile ingredients, don't you, for your podcast? Have you had any real standout messages, emails or whatever so far? You know, we already have. We started to get a reciprocal thing going which we're really pleased about I've been coming up with far too many metaphors for these last few weeks trying to sort of I'm speaking in metaphor because I don't know how else to try and get across

what I think this thing should be my latest one was it's like Mary Shelley's Frankenstein you know we've got bags of meat and we're going to put them on a slab and wait till you know they're struck by lightning and then the lightning is the listener and their messages

and then it will be a reciprocal arrangement then it will be a circuit that is complete and then we're off to the races but it is like that you know that I mean you're getting loads of emails and texts right now and without that it's it's less than half the picture isn't it you need the listeners input you need the the hilarity you need

their energy and and we're already starting to get to get that in which is really nice i mean one of the things we've we're doing is just off the top of my head we do i've written a little jingle you'll love this v and j i've got my guitar out and uh and it's one man meant to mow and the idea is what you're putting off because you know essentially we're all procrastinating all the time and so you know one man meant to mow a meadow that's me when i look at my back garden i am that man you know so it's just little things like that that little tiny bits of the day that we're trying to incorporate into it. It's almost like we're just collecting ideas, putting them in a little podcast at the end of the day

that you can listen to, and we're trying to create a sort of cheers bar environment. That's really what we're trying to do. Yeah, so are we. So we'd best leave it there, really. Thank you. That's Sean Keaveney. Get the competition off. Sean Keaveney. Get the competition off.

Sean Keaveney was our guest today on the programme and is our guest here on the podcast. It was really, really lovely to catch up with Sean. The connection between us all is actually really slight for people who never listened to the earlier kind of iteration of this podcast. But he used to do the very gentle, lilting eye dents all the way through. And there was just something about his voice and his intonation that really tickled our fancy. Well, he just has an incredibly warm,

but also world-weary northern delivery that just completely hits the spot. Yeah, I absolutely love it. Just a very brief mention. I know you want to go on the things we don't call holly bobs here because that word is banned. I absolutely cannot stand that. Stephanie in Wales says, just on the subject of grandmothers,

my grandmother was a columnist for The Times and my grandfather was the letters editor. My dad used to tell me the story of how after they were married in 1935 my grandmother had to take her wedding ring off every day to go to work as she wasn't allowed to work there as a married woman. She eventually had to leave in 1938 after nearly 10 years of employment as she was expecting her first child. I'm often feeling overwhelmed with the daily juggle of a job, young children and wider family responsibilities. But I think of her and how lucky I am to have had maternity rights.

Stephanie in Wales, we're not chortling at you. Far from it. That was lovely. But Fia's just packing her bag, getting her ever-present bottle of water stuck in it. And she's got a coat and scarf on. She's quite literally left. Bye.

Okay, bye. Have a reasonable week! Have a reasonable time. Miss you! Miss you more! No, seriously, thank God she's gone. Okay, next week, Jane Mulkerrins will be here with me in the All Jane podcast week of specials. They're all special. One of my first bosses said to me, never say a programme

special, because it suggests that some of them aren't. And that's a very very good bit of advice keep it close to your bosom and never wear a corset have a good weekend you did it. Elite listener status for you for getting through another half hour or so of our whimsical ramblings.

Otherwise known as the hugely successful podcast Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. We missed the modesty class. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler, the podcast executive producer. It's a man. It's Henry Tribe. Yeah, he's an executive. Now, if you want even more, and let's face it, who wouldn't,

then stick Times Radio on at three o'clock, Monday until Thursday, every week, and you can hear our take on the big news stories of the day, as well as a genuinely interesting mix of brilliant and entertaining guests on all sorts of subjects. Thank you for bearing with us, and we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. voiceover describes what's happening on your iphone screen voiceover on settings so you can navigate it just by listening books contacts calendar double tap to open breakfast with

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