Off Air... with Jane and Fi - You can't beat The Greatest Showman (with Clare Balding and Jason Donovan)

Episode Date: September 6, 2023

Fi is still joined by Clare Balding and they serenade you in this particularly bonkers episode of Off Air... plus, they discuss being studious, their playlists and the Olympics. They're also joined by Aussie heart throb Jason Donovan to discuss his role in Grease the Musical. If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram! @janeandfi Assistant Producer: Eve Salusbury Times Radio Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Right. OK, that was incredibly bossy. Right, come on, everybody, especially you at the back. Stop lagging behind. Yes, Miss, I'm here. Pay attention. I'm here. OK.

Were you a diligent pupil, Claire Balding? I was in certain lessons very very committed english in particular but in others i was probably quite bad and bad as in oh not concentrated and also we had these soft things so you see the roof tiles here um above us the ceiling tiles we had those were sort of soft these probably are too because they'll be soundproof you things anyway you could stick pens and pencils in them so when our history teacher had turned around and was doing things on the board we would get up and stick things in the ceiling and then see if you noticed when you turn back around again and then we'd also swap seats yeah that was yeah classic classic yeah i think we once uh before did

you have a kind of uh roll call thing first thing in the morning in your classrooms we had one one morning where we'd all turned our desks around to face the back and just the whole class about 30 of us just agreed that we'd be nonchalant about it because it was just completely utterly normal nobody would give the game away to the poor teacher and quite often there are a couple of teachers Claire that I think I should have written to apologize I have yes yes I really do yes I really do now I'm older particularly the one whose hair I gave a quick trim to yeah a teacher yeah long long yeah long I feel really bad about that but how did you get that close because she was walking in between the desks oh okay and you just got a little pair of scissors out? I'm not sure I did it, actually. I think I'm having a false memory here.

I think I didn't do it, but it was done. OK. And do you ever get that kind of very naughty spirit now in adult life? What do you do? Oh, I constantly have an urge to, you know, kick a golf ball on the green. Yes. Which you really mustn't do. No. Especially for somebody else. Yes. Yeah. No, I do sometimes have an urge to do something really naughty okay because you work in quite a

confined especially with the live shiny floor tv type stuff where you really can't do that you can get away with a little bit of whatever on radio can't you well yeah you can't go full Gillian Keegan but you can have that thought yeah Yeah. I'm not having that thought, are you? Well, no, just in terms of wanting to swear, no. No. No. I've trained that out of myself. Exactly.

Right. Dear Jane and Fee, well, it's Claire and Fee, but it's only Claire for today and then it's Annika and then Lady Jane Garvey returns. Is back from her wonderful holiday. She is back from her tour of Europe, which I imagine her doing with a series of suitcases. And a big hat and binoculars. Very much so.

And a guidebook. Yep, and several lackeys. The grand tour. Yeah. So Verlin, who's listening to us in Ontario in Canada, said, I listened to Fi and Claire's discussion regarding tattoos this morning. Years ago, I read that Freud said tattoos are a defence mechanism to externalise some inner trauma.

On the 10th anniversary of his death, I had my brother's initials tattooed on my inner wrist. I'm a knitter and I like seeing them while my needles work. That's just lovely, actually. And I didn't know that. I've learned so much about tattoos in the last couple of days because we were talking to Pernabel about the kind of stigma that she had received when she was in France

because she's got quite a few tats. And Verlin says, many good wishes to you and your families, especially the four-legged. You don't have a four-legged at the moment, though, do you? No, no, I've got two cats. OK, but the big four-legged. Button and Eric don't have a four-legged at the moment, though, do you? No, no, I've got two cats. OK, but the big four-legged. Button and Eric don't have a four-legged dog at the moment.

I have been quite concerned, and we did discuss this on the programme this afternoon, but for those that didn't hear it, very concerned about animals in this heat. Obviously, I'm also concerned about people, but given my love of animals and also the fact... Animals more, yeah. Yeah, basically more.

They can't tell us, I'm too hot. And I was recommending pavement, you know, testing the pavement for heat before you take your dog for a walk. Walking much earlier in the morning, later in the evening, and not nearly as much as you ordinarily would because they won't need as much exercise. But was it... Chris, who gave us the tip about the fingertips in cold water?

That was Jim Dale, the meteorologist. Jim Dale, the weather expert, the meteorologist, if you can say it. He said that when he was in the Navy, an iced bowl of water, just your fingertips in, that will cool your whole body down by one degree, he said. I always do the cold water on the wrists. Yeah, because that's logical, isn't it? Because that's near where you've got a vein popping up. Yes, a few.

Or on the back of your neck. So sometimes when it's really, really hot, when the kids are tiny, I'd make a little kind of ice cube scarf and put it around the back of their neck. That's what lots of sports people do too. But they also have those ice jackets. So the cyclists, for example, will put on an ice jacket. Marathon runners do that too. Have you got an ice jacket for Nancy because she's an athlete?

I've got one of those extraordinary ice coats which you just wet and there's something, I really don't understand the science and I'd love it if someone could explain it to me. The temperature of the water immediately cools so the actual fabric feels like it's frozen. It's really bizarre. And whenever you wring it out of the water, the fabric will stay in that shape as it dries.

So it's fabric impregnated with something, but I don't know what, and it keeps her very cool and she absolutely loves it. Does she come towards you tail wagging when it's, you know... Yeah, no, she does. She's really very, very happy. So look, it's been 32 degrees, I think, in London today, which is why we're talking about the weather. We've got so many people who listen to us,

Claire, in Australia, who will just be going, oh, for goodness sake. Get over yourselves. But also, all those people who are listening in Australia seem to be recommending Fisk. Oh gosh, yes, do you want to do a couple of those? No, but they all those people who are listening in Australia seem to be recommending Fisk oh gosh that's what they've told us but they all say you just must watch Fisk if you finish Deadlock

your next thing must be Fisk and it's really funny and less sweary than Deadlock so apologies we probably should have given a language warning ahead of my big recommendation not having known that you'd been recommending Deadlock for months, but should give a language warning around that.

But anyway, this Fisk sounds good. It's set in a legal firm in Australia. Oh, I love that. Oh, listen, you're talking to someone who grew up wanting to be a lawyer because I watched LA Law. Was LA Law the one which opened in the first episode with one of the lawyers deliberately driving into the back of one of the other lawyers because he fancied her that could have been I can't remember specifics I thought I was about to say oh no that was Ali McBeal if you're talking about the one where they burst into song and they had the unisex lose no but this is a guy who just

deliberately saw a woman on the freeway that he fancied and just drove into the back of her car so he could take her number. Not to be recommended, children. Not allowed. Not allowed, not a good way. You're right. I tell you what, you can take the lady out of the BBC. Good afternoon, Ms Glover and Ms Balding, says Stephen.

I'm enjoying your show. I would definitely recommend skydiving. I jumped out of a plane strapped to an instructor from 10,000 feet landing onto a nice sandy beach. It is the most exhilarating thing I've ever done. Regarding the Rolling Stones, what music do you both like to listen to when at home, in the car or when walking?

Well, the skydiving refers to a story that Claire picked out of the newspapers today. It's just never, it doesn't matter how many times someone says that that's amazing. I'm never going to do it. No, Alice says she won't do it either. And I like to, because I just like that, you know, the thrill of standing up there and then going, right, I'm going to go.

And obviously hoping that the thing works when you pull your string or push your button or whatever you're meant to do. It's for the optimistic hobbyist. It is. You have to embrace life and believe that you... Yes. But the music thing. So the Stones, the Rolling Stones have released their first studio album. It's either 18 years or 23 years. It's 18. Is it 18?

That's what you said earlier. But then Matt corrected me and said it was 23. Oh, I see. I was going with your fact. Yeah. I didn't listen to his. Let's just say the first studio album in 18, the first studio album in 23 years, and take your pick. Don't write in to complain. And

it sounds okay. I mean, it's very, very Rolling Stones, and I know that sounds like such a stupid thing to say. You know, they are the Rolling Stones. But I suppose after 20 years, you think maybe they've got something else in them that they might like to show us. But by the sounds of it, they don't thing to say, you know, they are the Rolling Stones. But I suppose after 20 years you think maybe they've got something else in them that they might like to show us. But by the sounds of it, they don't. I mean, glorious. That's why they're popular. Because when

they bang them out, they bang them out. The bit of the track we listened to was called Angry. And I thought, why? What have you got to be angry about? Quite. But it did start with the classic one, two, three, four. Don't hold up. And I think I said actually, not really when my microphone was faded up, I said Right, but it did start with the classic, one, two, three, four. Da-da-da-da-da-da. Yeah, and I think I said actually,

not really, my microphone was faded up. I said, oh, they can still count. Did that go out on air? Yes. Yes, great. Oh, no, I said it again. So what do you listen to? Just do top two things.

What do you like? Are you a classical music person? No, not really. Not really, to be honest. I have my playlist on my thing of things that on my phone, of stuff that cheers me up. Somebody did say to me the other day, he said, oh, I listen to your Desert Island Discs.

I've got one thing to say to you, Barenaked Ladies. I said, yes. Okay. It's because I picked If I Had a Million Dollars, which is a very funny, very funny song. And what was the one that you would take to the desert island with you? Oh, it was Billy Joel's She's Got Her Way. I was being romantic for you.

That's lovely. So Billy Joel is doing his last ever concerts, isn't he, next year? So have you ever been to see him in his madison square garden where he just tips up every month and just does all his tunes for you know the local new york audience but you've got to get there you've got to get there um bell and sebastian i want the world to stop that's on my playlist um so i do bits and bobs of things actually if it's going for albums and it's funny occasionally when you get asked to go on like Graham Norton's show on Virgin upstairs, upstairs in this building is what I mean. I picked a song by Sound of the Sirens because I really love them. And it was too, they're not very well known. And so it's too

obscure. I wasn't allowed to have that. Oh, yeah. Okay. But I'd really, are we allowed to just play things here or not? I don't think we can actually, because we don't have the kind of copyright. Only talk about music. It's one of the most frustrating things ever, I think. It's a little bit like perfume adverts. What's the point, Claire? Perfume adverts? Oh, yeah, but my word, they spend money on those perfume adverts.

Well, they do, but what's the point? You can't smell it. It's talking about music. Yes, but you can see what you would look like if you wore this perfume. Oh, yes, you think. Because it's going to make you look like that. I've got a very odd thing that goes down on my Spotify because we've got a shared family Spotify. So I actually can't even read you out the titles

of the most recent things that have been played on the Glover Jones family Spotify. Why, have you done Naughty? No, not at all. But just because both my teenagers listen to stuff that sometimes just has, well, quite angry titles, actually. Angry over the Stones.

We're back on angry. We're back on the Rolling Stones. I have a running playlist as well. Not that I run. But yes, so we were sitting around the other day deciding what will we play to uplift us and i'm afraid this i don't care and this is a forward ref to jason donovan who we're going to hear from shortly i don't care if this doesn't sound cool but the greatest showman you

can't beat it if you want to listen to a soundtrack that is going to make you want to move or or smile or sing really loudly in the car the greatest showman specifically from now on once it gets going okay well i believe you uh in response well this is like so garvey's favorite uh uplifting tune which i think she did play to herself every day for about a decade is ronan keating's Life is a Rollercoaster. Oh, yeah. Good choice. Well, see, I made myself a playlist which is called Happy Days. But actually somebody did pick me up on it last week

because it starts with the cure and the forest. I'm not particularly happy. But it's got loads on. It's got Benny and the Jets. It's got Gypsy, Fleetwood Mac, Tiny Dancer, Elton John. It's got Oblivious by Aztec Camera, which I've mentioned on the podcast before because I got, do you ever get just stuck on a song

for a couple of months and then you can't listen to it again for about 10 years? And Aztec Camera just came up on something and Oblivious is a fantastically happy track. You've got Brilliant Disguise, Bruce Springsteen. Yes. Good choice. Good choice.

Ordinary World, you've got good choice. Have you got Only You, Yazoo? No. Oh. Oh my gosh. I haven't listened to that for years, Claire. It's like a story of love.

Right. That's two people who cannot sing, but... Well, you can. I definitely can't. No, I can't at all. That is one of my favourite songs. I love that. That is a lovely song, actually. I'm going to listen to that on the way home, Claire Balding. Thank you very much indeed for the recommendation.

Shall we move seamlessly into a man who can sing and who's made a living out of it? I think that is a wonderful, seamless move. And also with whom we, because we're a similar age um grew up very much so because he was only and he was only he was born in 1968 i was born in 71 69 okay so he is roughly you know he's definitely same generation as us yeah as a teenager he gets picked out of obscurity well out of teenage life whatever he was doing to star in a relatively new sitcom in Australia called Neighbours he's given the role of Scott Robinson and his female interest in it to whom

he gets married in the show was Kylie Minogue as Charlene and Scott and Charlene getting married was watched by well I don't know how many millions in Australia I know their recent semi-final at the World Cup at the the Women's World Cup, was a new record for them for viewing figures. But I suspect it may have beaten the marriage of, you know, like the previous record holder might have been Scott and Charlene getting married. 20 million Britons

though watched that. So, you know, lots of people listening will know exactly who we mean. And they reunited. They were meant to be, Neighbours was meant to be finishing. They got them both back on, Jason and Kylie. But Jason Donovan also sold millions of records. He has been on screen and stage. He's an all round good bloke. And he's recently been in the West End production of Grease playing the role.

And it's a it's a brief part, but it's important. It's the role of Teen Angel. So I started. I thought quite sensibly, about asking him about that part. It's rites of passage by someone of my age and my calibre, midlife and having had the journey, I suppose, that I've had in music and television and, I guess, popular culture.

Listen, I think, how do I sort of dig deep in Teen Angel when it's three and a half minutes on stage? That's good. Exactly. There's, you know, obviously the character of Frenchie, I think it is, you know, sort of dreams of her past and, you know, out I arrive as this sort of vision of her, I suppose, her childhood and guidance.

But I teach her a few lessons that are in the lyrics that are sort of not all rosy and nice. There's a bit of an edge to Teen Angel, actually, rather than the glitz. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Beauty still drop out, no graduation though.

It's a little bit of a backhand sort of slap on the wrists by But three and a half minutes on stage in the second half, yes? Yes. So you don't have to turn up for the beginning of the show. No, I don't. This is Jason Welder. But Claire, it's taken me 35 years to get to this moment. Earned it very well. Very well done. But, Claire, it's taken me 35 years to get to this moment.

To earn it. Earned it very well. Very well indeed. Thank you. Did you like Grease, first of all? I love Grease. I mean, I'm, you know, being an Australian and obviously Olivia and, you know, the impact it had in the 70s as a film.

Ironically, when I was at the Palladium in 1991 doing Joseph, Grease opened at the Dominion Theatre and it was the first time that they brought the lyrics and the songs together, I believe, because Robert Stigwood had given the rights and they were all in separate pockets. So it was a producer called David Ian and Paul Nicholas or Nichols or Nicholas who was an actor.

Nicholas. Nicholas. Yeah. And it was with Debbie Gibson and Craig McLaughlin. Oh yeah. But I, playing Joseph and having the currency of Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice was probably the place I wanted to be at that particular point in time. And you were a very good Joseph, can I say.

Thank you. I also want to congratulate you on one of the best tour titles ever, combining that thought of the amazing Technicolor Dream Team with a midlife crisis. Yes. It's called the Amazing Midlife Crisis Tour. Yes. Congratulations.

Thank you. Great title. Was it fun a it was a long it started out with about 15 dates and then went to 120 so it's sort of it it was cathartic and funny and and um the right thing for me to do at the right time it's funny actually that sort of format really seems to sort of be taking off a little bit, I think, in a way. I guess it's a sort of an extension of a sort of a podcast idea where, you know, we don't really have the Parkies

or I guess we've got Piers Morgan doing his life stories, but we don't have that sort of elevation towards sitting and watching documentaries or conversations about our lives like we used to on television or the attention span of the audience. So theatre, small shows, intimate shows about one's life is probably a nice thing to do. When you're structuring that, though, you sing as well,

but it's very much storytelling about where do you start with the story of your life? At the beginning. Well, yes. I know. What you see is the beginning you see. That's true. That's true.

I mean, to be honest with you, the midlife crisis too, I think was the last time we spoke, actually. So we're going back about just before the pandemic actually. I guess you just, you give the audience what they're looking for, which is obviously things like Neighbours and Kylie and, you know, and growing up in Melbourne and, you know, and growing up in Melbourne and, you know, the lows and the highs of being famous and all those sort of things intercut with the songs, which sort of is a...

But isn't what people really want to know about your resilience and about being a real decent human being, having got through the world of showbiz. So although we love you for all of that Neighbours stuff, I actually think that your real attraction now is the fact that you have gone down and up and down and up and have a bit of wisdom, actually, about the world that you're in. You're not super star-spangled.

No, no, I'm not. I'd like to, I hopefully see myself as authentic is the word I like to sort of use. I think that's been sort of handled around about me on a few occasions, particularly recently I was back in Australia for six months and that word came up quite a lot. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm one of these sort of characters that sort of, I don't believe in luck. I think you create your own luck. I think timing in life is everything.

You know, the world is round. It's not square. What comes around goes around. I'm not deeply philosophical, but I'm, you know but I'm very active I like to keep working when I'm passionate I know what I like to do and I've been lucky in my life

to be able to do what I love doing even if it's taken on different forms and yes sometimes I'd love to have been a great film actor and sometimes I'd love to have written a fantastic song. Or, you know, I look at other people and go, I'd like to have done what you've done. But I can look in the mirror now and go, I'm sort of quite happy with what I see, you know.

And I've kept fit. Well, that I was going to ask you. Physically fit all my life. You are. Yeah. There is, you are a very, you're a very sporty looking guy. Yes, I am. And I appreciate sporting physique, obviously.

And that's your bedding. So what's the routine, Jason Donovan? That's what I want to know. Okay, good question. On a day like today, I always start the day with water and lemon. Although my dentist recently... Oh, how can you? Well, the dentist recently said there's a bit too much acid in the lemon.

So, you know, gum affecting your gum. Anyway, that's another story. That's like mid-50s stuff. Then I will swim. And I don't go under. Cold water? I love cold water swimming. See, this one here, Fee, is real open water.

Fee, I've just recently, this weekend, because I can't get close enough to cold water at the moment because the temperatures are pretty warm, I bought myself an an ice bath an inflatable ice bath i haven't spent the big bucks so i have to go and get ice from tesco's or sainsbury's or whoever i did but it's designed it's can i mention it's called i think a loomy um and it's it's very sexy and quite fun and only fits me.

So you get in that first thing in the morning after your hot lap? I don't, but what I tend to do is I go down to my gym and I, rather than swim, which I would in Australia, I find it quite difficult in an indoor pool in this country to go under. Only because my hair. I don't like, I swim as hair with too much chlorine. It never looks great on, you know, on BBC Breakfast in the morning. But are you therefore doing breaststroke with your head out of the water? I pull myself through the water and I push myself back.

So my philosophy behind that is quite simple is I don't like weights. I've never been interested in a builder's weight lifting body. It does nothing for me. I love the swimmer's sort of physicality toned in the right places. And I think the weight distribution of water, when you see, you know, a lot of people talk about the physio aspect of water and, you know, if you have back issues you should go into the water. Sort of does everything I need to do. It becomes very addictive as well, just the immersion of it. Can I just say, have you ever thought about wearing a hat?

I have worn hats in the past. I have worn hats in the past. I think that you need to put sort of water that isn't chlorine underneath it to get that layer of water that doesn't affect your hair. And then ultimately the chlorine, like water, will find its way through. It's one of those substances. It will find its way and cause you problems. Listen, I mean, you know, I was in Australia recently, just to follow on from cold water swimming.

I've just come back from Melbourne. It was very cold. Every day I went down to the bay, Port Phillip Bay, to the Brighton Baths, and I swam, and it was getting cold. It was down to about 11.9 in the water. The only thing that kept me happy was my wetsuit cap. So I was wearing my Speedos and my wetsuit cap because your head feels the cold obviously the most and the skin between your skull and your hair

gets, and the brain freeze, the brain freeze. So I'm a big fan of cold water swimming. I like to do my swimming in the morning and also I steam. Radio is all about pictures and we've made somebody's day with that. It is. I would ask more about the steaming, but I'm going to move on.

Yeah. It's vocal. That's a vocal thing. So Jason Donovan there, talking about life in general and the life he has lived and his authenticity. But I want to know as well about him with his kids.

And do his kids think he's cool or do they think he's vaguely embarrassing? Well, definitely embarrassing. But Claire, I'll be honest with you. One of the greatest gifts I've been given is I don't believe in being cool. I've worked that one out post the 90s when I tried to think I needed to be cool and actually it wasn't getting me anywhere. I just needed to be myself a little bit.

And all the things that I pushed away that were cool to try and find this sort of utopia of public acceptance didn't. I ended up going back to where I started. So I think one of the great things with my kids is they love hanging out with me. And that's cool. And that's been a really lovely thing as I've got a little bit older. Yes, I am a bit embarrassing. Yes. But my kids were at the carnival racing, Notting Hill Carnival. I live in that neighbourhood. And they all wanted me to come out and hang with them at the carnival. So that sort of works for me.

That's an absolute win. I don't think you can wish for anything more. Because you're, I mean, they're not really kids, are they? They're young adults. They are 23. Gemma's 23. Zach is 22. And my youngest is 12. Do you try and advise them about their direction in life using your own experiences?

Would you be fearful if they wanted to turn out and do the show this way? Absolutely. Gemma did four years in Neighbours, and she's just completed a year in Hollyoaks. I think my son, Zach, is politics at Edinburgh and my daughter, 12-year-old, who knows where she'll go. But listen, as long as you're passionate about something and as long as you're a decent human being,

I've educated them best I can to make the right choices. What they want to do with their lives is up to them. But I'm very much about being honest. And, you know, I've always said when it comes to the curveballs in life, I will be completely honest with them about stuff like that because I haven't been perfect. about stuff like that because I haven't been perfect. But again, it comes back to physical fitness and mental health. It's a funny one. In my life, it's always been a little good thing for me.

And I think also you need that person who's always honest with you and says, don't be a prat. Who's that for you? I'm not saying that you are. No, no, no. That was very me talking to me. I need someone. So Alice does that for me, my partner. Who does that and says, that's a good decision.

You should do that. You'll enjoy it. And God, no, Jason, don't do that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you can't have too many yes men around you. And that's, they still have their own opinions. And they still tell me to, you know, what they think. And, you know, we still conflict. But I think, yeah, passion, you know, physical fitness. you know, physical fitness. I mean, they still live at home,

which is a bit of a stress, to be honest, because, I mean, they're not tidy, which is really, it gets on top of me, because I'm quite OCD, actually. I'm quite sort of, I get up in the morning and make my bed and I like things in particular. But what were you like when you were their age? When I was their age, well, I was on my red carpet journey of neighbours and coming to this country and flying around the world and, you know, turning left.

You know, it was pretty extraordinary what I was doing at their age. But were you colour codingcoding your socks? I wasn't. I've got worse as I've got older. I don't know why. Maybe it's because I own more things. More socks. And more responsibility.

And, you know, I'm one of these people also that I'm a real believer in get it done now. You know, why are we waiting? I like to get things done or not or move on. Grease is obviously not going to be that physically taxing for you, although you'll be brilliant in your three and a half minutes on stage. But presumably you're going to be into panto in a couple of years. I hate to mention the Christmas word, but as we move into autumn, panto is a big, big deal and you've become very much a regular.

I mean, you say that. I've done it twice in Birmingham and Southampton. I've elected that I won't be doing it this year. And probably the thing about panto is it's a lot of hard work and it's, you know, at a time when you want to share with people you want to be with rather than necessarily working. Also, for me, it's not moving forward in a way, even though, you know, something like you might say,

well, God, Grease is hardly sort of, you know, Shakespearean moment. It's not, but it's still a creative moment for me to sometimes harder to do three and a half minutes than it is to do two hours on stage because you've really got to come out and fire. You really can't cock it up. No, you can't.

I've done it a few times. The lyrics, I've forgotten or come out and fire. You really can't cock it up. No, you can't. I've done it a few times. The lyrics, I've forgotten or mixed up the lyrics. I can't believe these kids are working all, you know, as hard as they are. And I've come along and, anyway, no one would have noticed. I think the thing about Panto is that it's about a parody of yourself. So you're not doing it this year? No, and you can only so long take that.

And I just don't get the creative. I mean, I like to be creative, you know. I like to be progressive rather than looking back. I like to keep moving forward. So what's the dream job in the future if you could just create your own perfect world? Yep. Do you know what?

I'm a workaholic, and it's becoming a little bit of a problem, I think, in my life. But I'm also sort of at a point where I'm in a golden sort of time where I suppose a lot of my audience, you know, like to come see me in shows. I did Rocky Horror this year. I love that. I did it when it was in 1998 for the 25th anniversary

and I came back to the 50th anniversary and that's where we were in Australia, Sydney, Melbourne, and it just clicked for me and it's a great character, Frank. So I like to do, I love live work because I like the adrenaline. I like, it's probably like a sports person, I like that feeling but I don't like doing it for too long you know six weeks or five weeks so i'd like to do these jobs but smaller little bits and then have more time off i suppose in between well those socks won't tidy themselves jason they won't and they've got to be kept very very tight um there

are various tv projects that you've been involved in. I'm a celebrity who did Strictly Come Dancing. Is anything like that coming up this winter? No, no. No, I've sort of ticked those books. You are open. So listen. So basically, anyone who is listening thinking, God, I'd love Jason Donovan to do this with us.

You are. I'm available. But it depends on the project. And, yeah,'s but it depends on the the the project and um yeah i guess it depends on the project i mean we're in a funny funny moment at the moment because tv is not what it used to be i think in a way television has changed it's a bit like the music industry was in the in the early 2000s i'm i'm just i love my popular culture and I like to look at the media and I, and I like to see it from many different angles as I've done. So, you know, and we're digesting our products and our content in very different ways than we, and that's in film and that's,

you know, the phone is like, I mean, wow, You know, I mean, it's quite incredible how powerful, you know, my children even wouldn't think of watching television, terrestrial TV anymore. So, you know, I think we've still got to have great stories and great songs. It's just how we give that to our audience in the future. It's going to be really interesting. Notwithstanding probably what we're doing here, which is sort of a podcast, you know, designed to be filmed and

spread on little nuggets, you know, 30 second nuggets. Like three and a half minutes of grease. Exactly, and make that three and a half minutes work for us. And save your hair. Because it does look particularly good.

I can't disagree with you, Claire. I have to say I completely concur. And I heard someone say the other day, which did make me laugh, my greatest ability is availability. And there, take that as your, you know. Or my greatest disability is my availability. I don't know. Sometimes it's good

to not be available. Or sometimes it's good to say no, too. That's quite empowering. It is. When was the last time you said no? Well, I said yes to this, didn't I? Not when was the last time you wish you'd said no. When was the last time you actually said

no? Well, I have said no a lot, actually. Do you find you say no to too much to work sometimes? Do you find that that's...? No. Probably not enough. Yeah, OK. But I like the variety, so that's what keeps me... Yeah, I do too.

I think that's important, you know. I think it's important. Can I ask you both a question, please? Yes. What's the daftest thing that you've been asked to do? Wife swap. And I said no to that. West thing that you've been asked to do? Wife swap. I said no to that. Wife swap. Have you been asked to do wife swap?

I've been asked to do wife swap. Daft. Or just when someone's asked you to do it and you're just kind of like, I'm not that person. I mean, I once got asked to play Saturday what's the end deck show

on a Saturday night oh yeah Saturday night takeaway yeah and play you know like an elf

like amongst a bunch of other elves oh it was probably for their they were doing a kind of undercover thing

a kind of almost like a mini drama yeah I said yesterday I didn't play an elf but I was in it.

Yeah, I did too. It was quite funny because I like that. I was a bit like, you want me to play an elf? Yeah, you should. A bunch of other celebrity elves? I think I'm okay on that one. I don't need the profile or exposure. Are you sure you want to pass on that?

Yes, I'm sure I'll pass on that. I think you two should do a podcast about the showbiz world. About variety. What people have said no to. So there we have it. That was Jason Donovan, our big, big guest. Do you think you would ever do a podcast

with Jason Donovan called Can't Say No? No. We are. Because I can say no I'd have said no to lots of things but obviously not the Ant and Dec thing that he looked at and went oh no why would I play an elf I think it was to do with the role he was offered

not the fact that it was Ant and Dec Saturday Takeaway because that's a massive show and I had quite a lot of fun yeah no I'm sure it is. I mean, I think you move in those kind of higher echelons of showbiz, Claire,

where... Do you know, I don't really. And actually, Jason and I have only met once, but it was like, you know, he very sweetly treated me as if he knew me really well. I am heartbroken that you say that because I genuinely believe that you two are very close personal friends there. But now you do move in those echelons where you are asked to do just, I would imagine, quite a ridiculous raft of things.

And if the phone doesn't ring, do you start to get worried? How are you judging yourself in all of these things when people ask you to do really stupid stuff like come on and be an elf? I'm not actually judging myself at all. You know, at the risk of sounding deeply shallow. I'm not. So I just do that. OK, the rule is, is it going to be fun? This is why I said yes to this, by the way, to which I could have said no

and actually had a couple of days at home. Is it going to be fun? And yeah, A, is it going to be fun? Will I enjoy it? B, is it going to be challenging and different? And C, do you know, will I learn something from it? And if the answer to those three things is yes. Oh, and then there's obviously, as I said to him, availability. Am I available? Can I? And luckily, with Lady Jane being away this week, I actually did have a week when I could do two days. But that was, you know, I was pretty specific about, I can't do all four, I can do two.

And then I think I suggested Annika Rice, and I'm very pleased you said yes. Yes, and so she's been your, well, you've been the Claire Balding sandwich. You've been butt-ended by Annika Rice on the Monday and the Thursday. I am the filling. You are.

I am the filling filler. You've been delightful. Thanks. But the carous the Monday and the Thursday. I am the filling. You are. I am the filling filler. And you've been delightful. Thanks. But the carousel of celebrities is just weird now, isn't it? All of that, you know, which reality show have you been on and all of that. Well, I did feel slightly guilty because obviously I looked at the, you know, what other work can I ask him about?

And obviously I brought up Panto and he's not doing that anymore. So that made me feel a bit, you know, just like, oh, my God, what should I? So then I'm thinking, what's he going to do this winter that's a lot of months to not really work you know other than the three and a half minutes every now and again well the next time next time jane's away on holiday i'm phoning jason jason jason would be jason do you know what after his swim as long as the hair is hair is safely protected. We've got a lot in common. Yes. I can see this. I think that's a really...

And as we now know, we've got a lot of listeners in Australia. They'd be thrilled. Yeah, this is shaping up. Eve, it's a booking. It's a booking. It has been really, really lovely to do a bit of hanging out with you, Claire Balding. I've very much enjoyed your company. There's so much that we haven't talked about.

So I'm going to try and make sure that you come back sometime soon. We haven't talked about Paris 2024, actually, which we were going to try and do today. I'm so looking, I'm so excited about their opening ceremony. So it's going to happen on the River Seine. And there's never been an opening ceremony at an Olympics or Paralympics on water. There's never been an opening ceremony at an Olympics or Paralympics on water. And so all of the athletes will sort of float down the river for about six or seven K, I think, get to Trocadero. And then there'd be a big kind of that's where the event happens.

But I think that'll look absolutely stunning and means a lot of people can see it for free because they'll be on the riverbanks. And yeah, that'll be great. And there's a few exciting new sports. Breaking. What, that's a sport? Yes. What's breaking? It's break dancing, but they call it breaking. No. There's speed climbing, which I love,

and that's really fun to watch. Three-on-three basketball, that's great. It was at the Commonwealth Games. It's really good. Three-on-three basketball? Yeah, and you have to watch it for a while to realise, oh, I thought the first time I watched it was like,

where's the other half? Oh, they play the same way. It's just like you score, there's only one net, basically. But then how do you get any momentum between... You've got to watch it. ...attack and defence

if you're all going the same way? Yeah. Oof. Yeah. OK. It's really exciting. Curious times we live in. And if you're all going the same way yeah okay it's really exciting curious times we live in and uh are you at all worried about going to paris and it's funny isn't it because that's not a question as a journalist that i thought we would ever really have to ask

because when paris was awarded the olympics uh it hadn't had quite as much friction on its streets as it has had over the last, particularly this summer and last summer. But does that trouble you at all? And particularly in August, there always seems to be trouble in France generally, but specifically in Paris. It hadn't troubled me until you just said it. So it really hadn't at all. But I am very used to now the general build up to an Olympic Games being this is going to be a disaster. This is going to be awful. These are all the reasons why it's going to be awful. Athens, for example, Athens is not ready. It's not ready. Beijing's ready already. And they're in 2008 and Athens is 2004 and it's going to be awful.

And then it was great. And then obviously Beijing had issues. But as a sporting experience, pure just on the sports and the venues and it was extraordinary. And Rio, well, London, London, classic example, London 2012. Oh, doom and gloom, doom and gloom. It's going to be awful. Ticket sales are going to be dreadful. Security, weather, it rained for about 21 out of 22 days before the opening ceremony. And then it starts.

It was glorious. And all through that summer, the Olympics and Paralympics. And I work on both and I love doing both. And it's such a, it's amazingly powerful how our shared experience and everyone looking at a thing that they're all enjoying. Do you remember everyone on the trains and the tubes all talking to each other? Oh, no, it was superb. It just, it lit up the whole country.

And actually, I remember going to see the Paralympics in particular. We couldn't get tickets for the Olympics, so we got tickets for the Paralympics. There was one moment, Claire, where in the stadium, we were lucky, we were sitting quite close to the track and there was blind long jump. And the stadium announcer asked everybody in the stadium to be quiet so that the blind long jump can hear because they're guided, aren't they, by an athlete with a bell on.

That's who they're jumping with. And 90,000 people in the stadium were absolutely silent. And I just remember thinking, I get tingles just talking about it. I've never been in a place where everybody is so on the side of sport they're doing exactly what they're told no argy-bargy no somebody trying to crack a joke in the silence absolutely nothing it was a real proper life experience and I think when everyone's got something positive and wonderful and enjoyable to you know take their energy and you know that's what their vision is directed towards it it improves hopefully the general circumstances

enough that that there isn't a need to get violent yeah and protest so i you know i'm i as i said i hadn't i was thinking only good thoughts until you filled my head with fear. Well, I'm very happy to have been of service to you. Thank you. We've ended in a slightly minor key there, everybody. I'm going to go and download my... Shall we sing Only You again? Yep, let's start. Looking from a window...

Oh, no, wrong key, wrong key! Looking from a window above It's like a story of love Can you hear me? Right, goodnight everybody. Well done for getting to the end of another episode of Off Air with Jane Garvey and Fee Glover. Our Times Radio producer is Rosie Cutler and the podcast executive producer is Henry Tribe.

And don't forget, there is even more of us every afternoon on Times Radio. It's Monday to Thursday, three till five. You can pop us on when you're pottering around the house or heading out in the car on the school run or running a bank. Thank you for joining us. And we hope you can join us again on Off Air very soon. Don't be so silly.

Running a bank? I know, ladies. A lady listener. I know, sorry.