Off Air... with Jane and Fi - You've triggered me darling (with Nancy Birtwhistle)

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

Fi's back from her holidays and Jane can't be sure she didn't take such a news-heavy week off on purpose.Big questions are asked, such as: why does Robert De Niro walk like that? Will the PTA live forever? Why has Jane de-woked herself?The next book club pick has been announced! 'Eight Months on Ghazzah Street' is by Hilary Mantel.If you want to contact the show to ask a question and get involved in the conversation then please email us: [e-mail] us on Instagram! @janeandfiPodcast Producer: Eve SalusburyExecutive Producer: Rosie Cutler Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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I'm Pantelist and this is my podcast. Every week I'm coming at you with a different reason to be angry, whether it's current events or arguing with my comedian friends that also pop into the show. The Pantelist Podcast drops new episodes weekly powered by Acast. Welcome back, did you have a lovely restful week at home? I have to say the world took advantage of your absence, it went bonkers! It was heavy news wasn't it? Like bear neck! So I did have a really really lovely week Jane and obviously I didn't do it on purpose, I'm not that in tune with the stars but I listened from home as wave after wave of deeply unpleasant news came over a relatively calm beach of peace the week before. Well it was all relative, you're right. Yeah it is all relative

at the moment. But do you know what, just a little bit of very gentle time at home is so restorative, isn't it? Well it is and in that spirit our guest today on the podcast is someone that people have asked for it's Nancy Burtwhistle so Queen of Green Clean And there was something about it was moderately better weather in the UK over the weekend So Saturday had that you did sense that spring isn't all that far away on Saturday But there was something about the quality of light it showed up all my dust. Oh dear. It was absolutely terrible. I was on my hands and knees, Fee. Gosh, I'm so sorry to hear that. No, I was. I think a proper good workings in my crevices. Right. You absolutely had to because everything was showing up.

Okay. Gosh, I really hope that nobody just joined the podcast 30 seconds ago. Are we all all right out there? Well, do you know what? I did a huge, huge spring clean of two rooms in my house this week that I've been putting off for months, if not years, possibly a decade. Any decluttering or just cleaning? Oh, massive decluttering, massive, massive decluttering. Some of your trophies gone. So some of the trophies have gone, some of the kids trophies have gone.

I award this certificate to you because you're a child at that time, you know, we've been there before, all of those type of things. How often, because normally it's once a term, your child gets a primary school certificate, isn't it? Yeah, there were quite a lot of those and a lot of those, the ubiquitous medals. So you could just, I think there was a time, wasn't there, when suddenly you could buy a hundred medals for £2.99 on a well-known online store, and I think primary schools around the country bulk bought. But I also found quite a lot of stuff from when we were in charge of the PTA. Okay. It wasn't a glorious episode in my history.

It's probably not the easiest job. No, we raised lots of money actually but it did end up being quite controversial. We had a real ding-dong about estate agents boards. Let's just leave that one. No, you need to explain. So this is this, and I always get rather intrigued by this, these are the estate agents who will sponsor your summer fare. Yep. Stick the board outside everybody's house. Yep. It looks like the property's for sale but it is not. Yep and it's aimed to send lots of people who are just driving around or walking past to the website because they think oh is that house that I've always wanted actually up for sale

and of course it's not but obviously it really works because the estate agents kind of fight over primary schools in order to do this sponsorship now and you get quite a lot of money I mean as anybody knows if you've ever been involved with a bake sale at a primary school it just takes so much effort you know to get a kitty up to 50 quid or whatever and so if a company comes along in your local area and says here's two grand then you're gonna go for it aren't you? I think there is an incentive to take the money but of course it's controversial not least because rising house prices in most neck of the woods are forcing out people who've lived there all their lives.

There's quite a lot of buying nice houses next to good primary schools going on. You know there's a lot of politics involved in that. A lot of politics on committees of all sorts. Yes, exactly. So, you know, that was an experience back in the day. But you know what, I just found so many really lovely memories actually in the back of the PTA cupboard, you know, little kind of raffle ticket books and stuff like that from a time that I would just never return to. And I don't honestly think, will that kind of stuff still be happening if my kids have kids, you know, in ten or... Well, will there always be a PTA?

But will there always be a PTA... My worry is that the very kind of old-fashioned, let's have a winter fair and sell raffle tickets and, you know, bake cakes and make Christmas decorations and have a lucky dip and sell raffle tickets and you know bake cakes and make Christmas decorations and have a lucky dip and all those kind of things. I worry that those won't survive. Did you say winter fair there? Yes. Political correctness gone mad. You see? You used to be able to say Christmas, you can't say any more. But there's no free speech. We had a winter concert.

Yeah we did. It was not a carol in sight. If you were called carol and you came to the church you weren't allowed in. And that is where Britain is going wrong. Nobody's called carol anymore and that is why. Anyway, right, so happy memories and I'm sorry that your crevices were so blocked. I really, really got into the sorting and throwing out and cleaning and wiping. So I've still got a little bit of that in me. So if you need me to come round and just do some little bit of extra kind of elbow work, I can do that this weekend. And then I won't be able to do anything for another 10 years because that's how long it took me to actually get round to this bit.

Well, I think we'll take emails on PTAs or indeed on committees. Are you on a committee? Yeah I'd be very interested to stay with other people but I would just say and I know that I've said it on the podcast before so I'm not just trying to insert this you know in order to look nice but my kids primary school was and is amazing. I've got absolutely nothing to complain about in that school at all and we did our best with the PTA. It was just sometimes it was just a little bit political. Oh it can get very tense. I must admit I wasn't ever on the PTA but I did. You were a governor though weren't you?

I was a community governor. What does that mean? It means that you're not, I wasn't a parent governor but I was someone from the area who was regarded as okay to, you know, contribute in some sort of way. Did they call you mum? Well I wish they had because I'd have continued with it. It's actually quite, some quite dense meetings that you attend in that role. And it's important stuff, it's hiring and firing sometimes. It can be hiring and firing, it never got to the, because like you, I've only got positive things to say about my children's primary school, but I do, that was political at times, there were tensions, it's a very, you know, we're both fortunate that we live in quite diverse areas, there were always issues, some of which were pretty delicate and you know someone has to do that work I know that sounds unbelievably pompous but somebody has to do it and that on the parent teachers thing I didn't do that but I did always serve at some affairs on stalls and things and honestly you'll know this the way some people speak to you and they question the prices of the fairy cake for God's sake it's for your kids school

you know yeah it's 10p. Don't pull that face. You know, you just think, do they think I... Anyway, you understand what I mean. Some people are just so hard to please. Yeah. I mean, there may not have been parents. I guess they may have been locals turning up for the fair.

Yep. But there's also, there is the stereotype of the middle class parent who's got enough time on their hands to do those kind of voluntary roles and you know I'll put my hand up to being that but I would also say thank God that there are some people who've got enough welly to be able to do it because it would be way too much to ask of people who are working two jobs or doing night shifts to then tip out and you know bake a cake every Friday and all that kind of stuff. So just for a little while Jane I wore my stereotype with pride and then I took it off.

And you're not wearing it. And you're not wearing it in the cupboard. You're not wearing it anymore and you've probably chucked it out in your most recent clear out. I just want to, because there's a lot of misery in the world and this is just from someone who just wants to share a winning at life moment. It's Christina in Cheshire. I'm just having one of those tiny moments in life where I feel like I'm winning and it made me wonder what that looks like to other people, both of you included. Here is my current

situation. Nice pizza in the oven, accompanying veggies chopped, glass of wine in my hand, PJs on, nowhere I have to be for the next 48 hours. The washing is done, the house is clean and tidy, the car is full of petrol. Chocolate tiffin in the fridge, house warm, no alarm clock for two days. Good book to read later. Daughters both happy to be home from uni.

Juliet the dog is snoring next to me. It's obvious something will happen to upset the balance, but for now, a big happy sigh. Beautiful. Very nice indeed and at the moment we all need a little bit of that. Yeah. So thank you for sharing. And how lovely to recognise that it's worth sharing. It is worth sharing. Can I just question if you're going to have a pizza why ruin it with vegetables? Why not just accept that you're having a pizza? You'll have the vegetables another time. Do you have vegetables with your pizza? Do you know, I was only thinking when I read that email, I thought why don't I get a pizza one

night, stick it in the oven. But I'm not, I'm gonna say it, I'm not a big fan of pizza really. Well then don't! So that's why I haven't. But do you know what I'm having tonight? What? I'm having a Nancy Burt Whistle chicken curry that I made over the weekend. I shall have it, I shall serve it with a baked potato. With a baked potato? Yeah, I really fancy it. I really fancy that. I may or may not have a broccoli spear.

Oh gosh, no, you've just gone crazy. It's only Monday. What are you thinking of? Baked potato, broccoli spear and chicken curry. Good Lord. No, that's like a proper lunch, dinner. It is a proper dinner. We'll be reheating last night's chicken thighs,

sugar snap peas and mashed potato. I looked at it in the fridge longingly. As when I left this morning, it was there on a great big plate, cold. I thought, yeah, that's absolutely brilliant. brilliant four minutes thirty in the microwave. Well that's fabulous what a woman you are. I think we'll definitely want to hear from other people who just have those winning at life moments just because things are a bit grotty. They are aren't they? And I think if you are fortunate enough to be

able to say I'm in a count your blessings kind of mode and you just do it and you've got your pet. That's lovely. Have you been watching Zero Day? I have yeah. Have you? I think Robert De Niro's got a touch of my trouble the way he's walking. So it's been much commented on in our household. So he's either got piles or his knees are very loose or his shoes are too big. Which would it be? It's one of the three, possibly all three. The funniest thing about it, I mean, I just want to, if you haven't seen this, it's a Netflix thing, it's about a cyber attack on the States. Robert De Niro is a, well he was the president and he left in, shall we say, we don't really know why he didn't run for a second term, is that? He's had an affair, hasn't he? He's had an affair and his son died.

And his son died, okay, so he didn't really feel that he could do any more. Anyway, he's been succeeded by Angela Bassett, who's playing a Kamala Harris-style president. It's counterfactual. And we don't know whether she's up to no good actually either, at least I don't because I'm only up to episode three, but there's an app, it's like Acorn Antiques at times. There was a bit where she was handed a top secret file. Have you got to that bit? And the camera zooms in on the words top and secret and it kind of wobbles a bit and that's the end of

the episode. And you think, what the hell, where's Celia Imrie and Victoria Wood and Julie Walters, where are the gang? It's very peculiar. It ends up just having so many different plot lines. I've watched the whole last week. Oh, have you? I was off last week. Oh of course, no spoilers. No spoilers at all but by the end of it you are unpicking a really really really difficult hairball within a knot. Could there be another series coming our way? No. Oh, good question. I bet there is.

There could be. But things that I took from it. I'd love to live in upstate New York. That's absolutely beautiful. Robert De Niro's weird swimming. Weird swimming. And also I don't know anybody who does front crawl without goggles. Well he is also well into his 80s isn't he? Yes he is but I liked him in this. Did you not like him in this at all? I don't know what to think. But also I just thought it had a really, it's having an identity crisis that series. Because it can't work out whether or not it's House of Cards or the West Wing or some kind of super sore away family drama and then the amazing actress who's in Nashville, Connie, I can't remember her

surname. Who does she play? So she plays the Valerie, the woman who Mullen had the affair with, President Mullen had the affair with. Ex-former president Mullen. Yes, ex- president Mullen. Confusingly they're just still called Mr President though aren't they? Yeah they are, they keep their titles. So she pitched up and I wasn't concentrating very much. I thought it was Sharon Horgan. For a moment I thought all of my Christmases have come up once. I was going to say that would be epic but it's not her. Anyway if you're in the mood for some watchable tosh that is definitely watchable tosh, it's definitely one for you. Yeah. Okay shall we move on? Yes can I just quickly before we leave television though you've obviously been talking about The Unforgotten, you finished that?

Well I finished it and I've had some support from a listener like me was a bit... I'll read this one out it's from Carolyn who is in La France Profonde. Dear Jane and Jane, I so agree with your thoughts in today's podcast. I binged The Unforgotten on my iPad. Couldn't put it down. But then the ending, a complete letdown, I thought would never have happened like that. I love listening to you. Enjoyed every minute of your show at the Barbican. In fact, I traveled all the way from my home in the La Moussa just to be there. That's incredible, Carolyn. That's very kind of you.

Incredible, yeah. Really, really kind. So I would completely agree, presumably, with your premise that it just went bl spoil it but I don't think you'd just walk away from something like that. I don't think you would be able to carry on a family relationship if that was in your locker and just to revert it all the way back to cleaning, I don't think you'd be able to clean that up. Even with Nancy Burt whistle. Do you know what I mean? Well can't ask Nancy. What do you do Nancy if you find yourself in your own home? It's more than a deep clean darling. Yeah, so for many reasons that didn't work for me. Now before you went away we had that, I'm going to say quite remarkable email, I thought it spoke to an uncomfortable truth. Somebody who was pregnant and was actually, and that can be a dizzying and discombobulating time in any woman's life. But she frankly had doubts about her partner, didn't she, and about whether the unborn baby would share traits with the parent

about whom she was becoming rather less sure. Is that a fair upsum? It's a very fair upsum and in fact she went as far as to say that she was slightly dreading some of his character traits coming through and she'd started to find him a little bit stupid. Yeah, I mean that was it. It was actually quite tough to read on one level but nevertheless, stuff happens and it might happen to any of us and I find this we had some interesting responses I just want to read this one because I think this is so interesting from a perspective I confess I hadn't really thought about I don't think I've ever heard this perspective before

I applied to adopt as a single woman after being unable to have my own child and I was fortunate enough to be matched with a 10 month old babyold baby girl. I wanted to be a mother more than anything, however during introductions week, during introductions week, I just wanted to run. I didn't tell my social worker how I felt but I found the baby remote and odd and I felt no connection at all, almost as though I was entering an arranged marriage. I didn't run, I dug in, I took that strange baby home a few days later, and I went through the motions. I cared for her as if I loved her, despite feeling frightened and ambiguous. I trusted an attachment would form.

All first-time mothers know how challenging and demanding it is to suddenly be solely responsible for another little being, but imagine that, plus the child you're responsible for, is a total stranger biologically, who you are pretty uncertain about. Please tell your troubled listener that my daughter is now 19, she's the most interesting and important person in my life, I love her as much as if she were my biological child. If I can go through the motions to arrive at this place with a child with whom I share no biology, I'm sure your listener will also one way or another love her child as much as any other parent. Whatever happens about her marriage, her child will become the center of her world. Well thank you,

thank you for bothering to email and thank you for sharing that particular life experience. Yeah and I think we've talked quite often haven't we on the podcast before about the incredibly saccharine vision that you are always given of those moments after a baby is born and actually they're really not true to life at all. I think most women find themselves tired, bewildered, a bit shocked, quite frequently, you just need to actually be hosed down. It's a very odd kind of time. It's just, it's so far removed from the way that the pictures portray it. And then after that, it can take a while to settle into what is an enormous, enormously changed identity. So I think... I think we're getting better at admitting to the ambivalence.

But yes, definitely. And I think we should. I think we should just be much more upfront about how challenging it can be. Yeah. And also that it resolves itself in many different ways. Yeah. You know, it's just not a given that two weeks down the line

you'll feel better. It's not a given that someone who isn't filled with euphoria at the beginning of their baby's life doesn't find six months down the line that they're feeling a bit blue. It's bumpy and feelings for your partner will change as well. That's just inevitable. And your partner's feelings for you might change a bit for a time as well which again I don't think is talked about nearly enough. That kind of stereotype of what the dad should do and where the dad should be and how the dad should feel I don't think that's helpful either.

Do you think any of, we don't know because obviously it's been a while since we did them, but do you think any of this is addressed in these classes? Well the antenatal classes? Did you find it was? Well, not 25 years ago, no. No. But I don't know whether it is now. No, me neither.

Me neither. But you can let us know. Yep. And sorry, we've gone all heteronormative there. Sorry. I've said dads, but parents, co-parents, other parent, other person involved. Well, the Times has got its, is it a parenting hub?

It's got a parenting hub, no, hasn't it? I'm going to. Where is it? I don't know where. Is it on this floor? I should drop my kids off. I'd love to drop mine off. That'd be great actually. Come on in, spend the day here, don't alarm anybody, don't do anything I'll be ashamed of. Just let me work. Fine, you just, you stop asking me to parent, you read the leaflet. You do it. Oh dear. Yeah I read a fantastic piece about South Korea in the paper yesterday did you read that about the incentives that they're giving um you can hire a buggy or I did see a lot of buggy oh my

goodness so they face a terrible we're gonna fall off a cliff in terms of demographics if our young people don't reproduce and so instead of just telling people that they should, they've just completely and utterly monetized it in order to make young people feel more secure, especially women. And the results have been fantastic. Guess what?

You know, if you're offered, you know, certainty about your job, the other side of having a baby, and quite a lot of help along the way. So they buy your buggy and you've got all this money for extra childcare. And then they were doing something very clever and I apologise if I've got this slightly wrong but they were paying for an extra couple of hours of childcare after school all the way through so parents can either work or just have a bit of a break and they're just making it much more appealing and viable and

the numbers have gone up. Yeah well you do get, I mean it is a cliche, but the cliche is an elderly gent tells young women they need to start having more babies. I'm sorry that doesn't work, that isn't the way to increase the birth rate. Well Nigel Farage was at it wasn't he? Please don't, you've triggered me darling. Judeo-Christian culture. I couldn't understand that at all because as far as I can tell there are loads of people having babies, not defined by religion. Right, well I get over my partner getting of asectomy. These topics are slightly linked. Here we go, this is going to be anonymous. Tell you what,

all human life is here and we're grateful for you. Yeah, this is really interesting. My partner and I have two wonderful children, four and two. Since our youngest was born, he's been fairly set on sticking on two kids, but I've always felt like I'd like one more. And about 10 months ago, he went on the waiting list for a vasectomy, saying he wasn't sure, but may as well be on the list.

And then last week, he got a text saying he could now make an appointment. And when he rang up, was offered one on Saturday, just five days notice. We've had lots of discussions and I explained exactly how I felt and just how much I wanted to try and have a third or at least have the option to but ultimately he said it was his body and therefore his choice and he needed to decide for himself. He said he felt very sure he wouldn't change his mind down the line and decided to go through with it. I've cried a lot in the last week, the emotions are so complex. I feel guilty that it might see

like I'm ungrateful for the kids I've got and greedy for wanting more, but I can't stop imagining the future I thought I might have. Three or four kids around the table and it makes me so upset and a bit angry that the chance to try and have that has been taken away. Of course there's never any guarantee of having a child just because you tried to, but knowing it's now definitely not going to happen feels so final. I wonder if anyone else has experienced similar feelings and did anything help to move past them other than time and acceptance? Right. It's a biggie, isn't it? That is a biggie.

What do you think? Well, I only ever wanted two children, I must admit, because I knew I just... In an ideal world, but I'd started too late. I just remember an older woman saying to me once, and I'm sure I've mentioned this before, two's better than too many. And that really... but I'd already settled that I was delighted to have to join felt privileged never wanted to go on but so put yourself in but so this reader's shoes I'm struggling to put

myself in her shoes in a way but you see it so it's difficult so the man her husband says it's his body and his choice now we reserve the right as women to say that all the time, don't we? So how do you criticise a man for saying it? Well I don't think you can. No, I don't think you can either. No, it's difficult. And I mean the boot's quite often on the other foot as well, isn't it too, and I mean I feel for you lovely listener I really really feel for you yes I'm sympathetic I really am because if the shape of your life has been changed then that is very difficult but I think I think you do have to accept

that your husband feels very strongly about it and and maybe what helps you move past it is imagining if it was the other way around and whether it was demanding and how you would feel about that but I feel really sad for you because I think you know if you always feel that another child should have been there or more children should have been there that is going to be quite tough. It is going to be quite tough but as she says they've got two lovely healthy children you know I don't know maybe and I don't know we don't know what this man's thinking is maybe he is worried about quotes providing for another

child perhaps he just feels that he's you know up against it already or they are as a family are up against it and he doesn't want to push it any further. I mean it's worth asking isn't it a little bit more but I do take it that it's all it all feels like it's happened to you very suddenly but I'm with Jane actually I think when we talk about other people having control over our bodies as women and there's so much conversation to be had about that because the tide is just being turned back at the moment isn't it in huge parts of the world. I think we have to accept that men have a right to say the same thing, you can't have control over mine. Yeah I don't, yeah I agree but difficult if as you say you'd imagined one sort of life

which you now feel but there'll be lots of people listening who think well I'd love one child or I'd love a second child it hasn't happened for me buckle up and stop complaining yeah I don't know it's very very difficult honestly that's why we are very grateful to you for sharing let's be honest these complex issues as you may have gathered as we often say we're not experts. Come round to my house and see what absolute shambles I've made of things. Well she's got dusty crevices and filthy cupboards so we're absolutely, we're going to hell in a handcart with slattens. Can I just thank all of the people who've

written in about alpacas. Have you joined the alpaca love club yet? Well I'm being inundated with bloody images of these alpacas visiting care homes on Instagram. They don't seem to do any harm. They don't and they've got... Presumably they do their business before they go in. They've got lovely chubby bums and the tiny alpacas, they just kind of leap don't they? They don't run properly, they look like they're just don't they? They don't run properly. They look like they're just, they're trying out running for the first time.

Do you think? They haven't really got it right. What's the home we're going to now? Cause I know initially it was the home for the infirm. It was the BBC home for the impartial and infirm. Right, then we've moved to the? We've moved to the, it makes more commercial sense, Murdoch home for retirement.

Okay. Will we be visited routinely by Al Packers? I very much hope so. Could you please ensure that happens? One of the many reasons for booking in. April says, I'm sure Fee's been inundated with suggestions on where she can go and visit Al Packers. I haven't, not enough. But if she's visiting her mum in Swindon, I'm a foster Swindonian and always get a light thrill when it's mentioned. And I've always wondered about the Jane Austin

Electrification Centre, but also I'm waiting to holistically find out the origins. I love this April. You and I may be waiting a long time, my darling, but I'm not looking it up. I'm not Googling it because I want somebody to tell me just for people who are new to this one of the roundabouts outside Swindon There are 456 there is a turning off to the Jane Austen electrification center I don't know what it is and you're right. We should wait until someone tells us Yeah, because obviously we can take all the fun out of life by googling too much There is a brilliant alpaca farm on the outskirts that offers walking experiences called Lanehouse alpacas It's very much a working farm all the alpacas are well

loved by the owners who often help run the walking experiences. If nothing else it's worth following their Facebook account because when it's time for the babies to be born they post photos of all of the newborns and it's joyous. Well April you know that I'm logging on to that. The thing is I don't do Facebook anymore but I'll find a way of following them. What are they called again? Lane House Alpacas. Lane House Alpacas. They'll be on the Insta won't they?

Lane spelled in the traditional way. As opposed to? Well the politically correct way, whatever that is. What has happened to you over the last week? What? I'm trying to get with the new thinking. So, you know, if Elon Musk had emailed you... Have you de-woked yourself?

If he'd emailed you last week and asked you to say what you'd done, what you'd done at work, well you weren't at work. Do you know what, it would be so bloody ironic if that had happened because it would have been the one week where you'd done more work than me. I know. That's why, no wonder I slept most of this last weekend. I was exhausted. Spent force. You wouldn't have been able to, that would have been quite a hefty email whereas I'd just be fired because I didn't do anything at all. Yeah, we did have, we have had an email just to somebody who's just in despair in the United States and thank you very much for sending it but she then very sweetly goes

on to a recipe for a hard boiled eggs. Yeah I'm intrigued by that. Hang on where is it? Because you say run the hard boiled eggs under the tap until they're cold and I'm sure that just leaving them in the pan is how you get them to not stick with the albumen around the egg. I'll have to find that because I can't find it here. Oh go on, yeah. It's from Christie in the USA. Stay strong Christie. Yeah, thoughts and prayers. Yeah, they really are with you. On a much lighter and different topic my son-in-law gave me this foolproof hard-boiled egg method. The shells come off easily every time. Bring water to a boil, reduce heat to five, that's a medium heat.

Lower eggs with spoon into the water, bring heat back up to a low boil. Cook eggs for 15 minutes, then run under cold water till not hot anymore. When cooled, crack and peel. Works for me every time, enjoy. I'm going to try that tonight Christy, I know all the fun is at my house. Whereas over at my house it's a baked potato with chicken curry and a broccoli spear. This episode is sponsored by Womble Bond Dickinson, an international law firm of more than 1300 lawyers across 37 offices in the United States and United Kingdom.

In today's complex world, new problems need new perspectives. Womblebond Dickinson thrives on change, bringing together people with different skill sets and experiences to give their clients a competitive edge. Across a range of markets, they support businesses and private clients on critical challenges, from energy transition, digital transformation and cross-border investment, to corporate finance, dispute resolution and personal wealth planning, all with a mix of minds you won't find anywhere else. Womblebong Dickinson, a point of view like no other. Discover more at Womblebondickinson.com. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.

Here's a show that we recommend. So you enjoy a good podcast and you also like comedy? Look no further than the Pantelis podcast. I'm Pantelis and this is my podcast. Every week I'm coming at you with a different reason to be angry, whether it's current events or arguing with my comedian friends that also pop into the show. The Pantelist podcast drops new episodes weekly powered by Acast. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

acast.com Right, let's bring in Nancy Birtwistle, the winner of the Bake Off back in 2014. She is so popular on Instagram for her, well, I don't know, not just household tips, but just general life enhancery. Some of her tips include stopping caterpillars eating your veg by rehoming them. I know for a fact because I saw her on the Insta that she spent part of the weekend cleaning out her pantry and she's just very very good. Her latest book is Nancy's Green and Easy Kitchen. Nancy Burtwhistle, come in please, how are you? I'm very well, I'm

absolutely delighted to meet you girls. Well thank you for calling us girls and thank you for your enthusiasm. We are delighted to have you Nancy honestly because as I was saying right at the top of the program today, lots of people have emailed in to say you need to come on so here you are. Now your book Green and Easy Kitchen, I made your easy chicken curry on Saturday and I'm just not the greatest in the kitchen. I'm reasonably good at following a recipe and it was delicious. It really delivered not that many ingredients. Is that what you aim

at? Tasty stuff with not much fiddle faddle? Yes, you've got it in one. I'm trying to encourage people to do it themselves but if then you pick up a book and it's got a list of ingredients and you're exhausted before you even start, I'm trying to encourage people to do it themselves, but if then you pick up a book and it's got a list of ingredients and you're exhausted before you even start, it's gonna put you off and you're gonna go and buy a ready meal or a ready done sauce and that sort of thing.

So fundamentally, I want my recipes to be simple and fail safe, yeah. Okay, well, it is fail safe because I've made it. It's full safe. It's full safe, yes okay I knew you'd chip in with that. People who've contacted us and they have Nancy about you just say that you make them feel a bit more positive about life and first thing in the morning you bounce into Instagram and you are, are you actually that person, are you full of positivity? I try to be because there are, there's a lot of, there's a lot to moan and groan about and,

but I think, you know, when you've been round the block a few times as I have, I think to myself, you know, I'm getting up every morning, I'm lucky to have good health and I obviously have an ability to be able to, and I don't know what it is, I don't know what it is, but people tell me that they feel inspired to have a go themselves and they are delighted when something works out. Okay, there was something about this weekend, whether it was a slight change in the temperature, there was a hopeful feeling in the air about springtime maybe being not too far away. I looked at some of my surfaces and some of my woodwork and I was just absolutely horrified, Nancy. And

even though I obviously knew you were coming on, you were in my mind. I'm not sure that was why I started scrubbing up my crevices over Saturday afternoon. But I absolutely did. And you were doing your pantry. I was. And I was the same. The sun came out, the sun came through the window and I could see all this muck and filth. And I thought, well, I'm gonna get the music on and give it a go. And I like to show a few little tips

because obviously I went green about eight years ago now and discarded all those toxic handful chemicals. And I know it's not for everybody and I wouldn't preach and say do this, do that. I'm just trying to demonstrate that we don't need to spend money on those things. We can do a great job, perfect job, much cheaper and easier. And yeah, that's all I want to do, just trying to go what I'm doing. What made you change your mind?

Was it eight years ago, you say? What happened? Well, I've got grandchildren. And I can remember it as plain as plain. It was Christmas time, and all the family was sitting around the table, and there were little tots in high chairs and things. And everybody was having a good old compare

about how cheap it was to fly to Europe and I think somebody said yeah I've got I've got a flight for 8.99 to Rome and somebody else saying this and oh yes oh I get these things and you just chuck them out and I just I remember sitting there and looking at these little children and wondering what sort of a world we're going to leave them with basically because I thought I can't get into my, I can't get to my local city for seven quid yet they can fly to Rome.

So there's got to be something wrong, something has to give. And then I got, obviously I had my bake-off win under my belt and I thought well if I can write recipes for baking and cooking I'm sure I can write recipes for cleaning because I was the world's worst. I was buying single-use wipes, single-use makeup pads, single use things for cleaning the toilet and then flushing them down. I mean the whole thing just fills me with dread now. Okay. And that was it and then it becomes addictive but in a feel-good way. Can I just put some of the listeners questions to you Nancy because

we've had quite a few here. Sarah is in northern Norway. She says to be greener we have switched to using bar soap in the shower instead of body wash and in doing so we have noticed way more stubborn soap stains on the shower floor tiles. They're really hard to remove. Ammonia works well but my respiratory system cannot stand the stench. It's ace at fat removal from tiles etc but it can't be good for the environment. Any other solutions? Pure magic. My pure magic has to go down as one of my top 10 achievements in life.

And all it is really is a very simple spray but the active ingredient is citric acid which isn't going gonna harm the environment, but it is a beast of a cleaner. It will clear soap scum, it will clear lime scale, it will dissolve rust, it will get rid of algae. I use it all over the place. But it isn't a surface cleaner because it does dry sticky. I found out to my cost when I invented it.

But yeah, that is a godsend in the bathroom. Okay, we've actually got another question that references your magic solution, so here we go. I was making up some of Nancy's pure magic solution ready to clean the bathroom. Oh, it's not a question actually, it's just full of love for you, but you'll have to just take it, Nancy. I always use one of her books, probably at least once a day day to tackle a stain or to seek her wisdom on another household matter. To Nancy has now become a verb in our house and I'm going to see her in Bath on her book tour. She is so much more than her cleaning tips, her fun and joyful instru- oh that's enough! Okay that's from Alice in Fleet who obviously really loves you Nancy. Oh thank you that's nice.

Yeah it's very important that we acknowledge how much affection there is for you. Richard has a question for you. I know in a past life she worked as a practice manager in a GP surgery. Does she see a role for green product savings efficiencies within the NHS? Well that's a difficult one because I don't profess to be some sort of central sterile supplies department. You know, you're talking having to keep things really germ-free, but certainly in the house, in the home, I would, yeah, use them without a doubt. But I mean, cleaning a GP surgery, I I would but I wouldn't probably I don't know because I haven't got that level of knowledge, you know, they have to have all sorts of swab tests and things

Yeah in treatment rooms. So I Can't know whether my no you wouldn't want to fully endorse your own pure magic solution to clean up a GP surgery I get that you wouldn't be ideal. Actually, you just need to tell us how we make this own pure magic solution to clean up a GP surgery, I get that, it wouldn't be ideal. Actually you just need to tell us how we make this pure magic solution, Nancy. Right, citric acid, all citric acid is food grade so don't get hung up on oh does it have to be a certain type, just pick up any citric acid and then you need 200 grams in a Pyrex jug. Pour over 150 mils of boiling water and stir it until it's completely clear,

not a single particle floating around, otherwise it'll recrystallize. And then once it's completely clear, just squirt in about 10 mils of eco-friendly washing up liquid, not the green fairy because that's toxic and it causes it to clump and then once it's gone completely cold in a spray bottle and your life has changed. So I can use it for almost anything can I? If you've got, do you live in a hard

water area? Yes. Right well so if you've got, do you live in a hard water area? Yes. Right, well so if you've got limescale problems in your loo or on your shower screen or around your taps it will do a sterling job. Actually we've got a question here from Diane, how do I get rid of the mould behind my taps? She asks. Pure magic and an old toothbrush. Oh yeah good old toothbrush. Yeah very good use of it. Nancy does it ever trouble you that you've turned a hobby and your home knowledge into a kind of front-facing business? Do you ever think oh actually it's kind of taken the magic away of just keeping my own home and indulging in that? No it doesn't actually feel like a business if I'm honest. I mean social media is a fantastic

forum and I don't really, you get the few sort of grumpy people but by and large I've got a really good positive following and what I'm finding difficult to manage is I haven't got a team of people, it's just me. And I'm getting in the region of 200 messages a day. Now some of those messages might be some fantastic before and after photographs of something that, you know, I've used your pure magic on this or I've used your cream cleaner on that.

And it really is worth sharing with other followers. But then there's a lot of other stuff. And then some days I feel as though I'm sinking. And then other days I'm fine with it. So it sounds a bit crummy, but if I say I enjoy helping the people, I mean, that sounds like, you know, oh, I like helping people, but I love because it is a lifestyle change. And so there has to be a helpline. There has to be somebody there.

If you get stuck or if there's something that's not mentioned in the books and I don't always know how to fix it but I'll not give in until I get there but but yeah it's become my life's work. Nancy Burtwhistle and thank you to everybody who suggested her because people did and we do listen well after a fashion and we're always always grateful for your suggestions so keep them coming. And a couple of people asking about the book club so we will do that. Should we set a date? Should we say in at the end of two weeks past this? Are we waiting for Eve to come back? Rosie's in

charge at the moment. The date is when Eve comes back. Okay so you've got three weeks. This is the start of your... No you've got two weeks. She's back in two weeks. Okay you've got two weeks. Okay. You've got two weeks to go, Kiddy Wonks, and we'll give you a final proper date. But it's eight months on Gaza Street, that's spelled G-H-A-Z-A-H, and it's by Hilary Mantel. And it has been a little bit difficult to get hold of, and that probably, Emily Young, you're're right is because we have provoked a renewed interest in it but I think it's available in decent independent bookshops. Yes indeed. Up and down your local high street. I mean you can say high street. Can't you? Yes. Goodbye. Congratulations, you've staggered somehow to the end of another Off Air with Jane and Fee. Thank you.

If you'd like to hear us do this live, and we do do it live, every day, Monday to Thursday, 2 till 4, on Times Radio. The jeopardy is off the scale, and if you listen to this, you'll understand exactly why that's the case. So you can get the radio online, on DAB, or on the free Times Radio app. Off Air is produced by Eve Salisbury and the executive producer is Rosie Cutler.

["The New York Times"] This episode is sponsored by Womblebond Dickinson, an international law firm of more than 1300 lawyers across 37 offices in the United States and United Kingdom. In today's complex world, new problems need new perspectives. Womblebond Dickinson thrives on change, bringing together people with different skill sets and experiences to give their clients a competitive edge. Across a range of markets, they support businesses and private clients on critical challenges, from energy transition, digital transformation and cross-border investment,

to corporate finance, dispute resolution and personal wealth planning, all with a mix of minds you won't find anywhere else. Womblebong Dickinson, a point of view like no other. Discover more at WomblebongDickinson.com. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. If the New Year's resolution you made to read more books is not quite panning out, don't sweat it, I've got you covered. I'm Matea Roach and my new podcast Bookends is all about discovering great books and getting

to know the writers behind them. Like Brian Leo Malley, whose personal connection to Toronto helped him create the icon Scott Pilgrim. Bookends with Matea Roach is available now wherever you get your podcasts.