Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 119: Jamie Oliver

Episode Date: September 8, 2021

Usually it’s the guest that’s shocked by ‘poppadoms or bread’. Not this week, as we welcome to the dream restaurant legendary TV chef Jamie Oliver.Jamie Oliver’s new book ‘Together’ is out now. Buy it here.Follow Jamie on Twitter and Instagram @jamieoliverRecorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography and design) and Amy Browne (illustrations).Follow Off Menu on Twitter and Instagram: @offmenuofficial.And go to our website www.offmenupodcast.co.uk for a list of restaurants recommended on the show.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, listeners of the Off Menu podcast. It is Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu podcast. I have a very exciting announcement. I have written my first ever book. I am absolutely over the moon to announce this. I'm very, very proud of it. Of course, what else could I write a book about? But food. My book is all about food. My life in food. How greedy I am. What a greedy little boy I was. What a greedy adult I am. I think it's very funny. I'm very proud of it. The book is called Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy. And it's coming out this October, but it is available to pre-order now, wherever you pre-order books from. And if you like my signature, I've done some signed copies,

which are exclusively available from Waterstones. But go and pre-order your copy of Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy now. Please? Welcome to the Off Menu podcast, kneading the dough of conversation, sprinkling in the chocolate chips of humour, rolling out with the rolling pin of great guys, and using the biscuit cutter of fantastic, wonderful friends, baking in the oven of nice, fun, and having a cookie of a podcast. I'm not going to lie. The best one I've ever done. Yeah, flawless. Can't pick out anything wrong with that. Nope. I gave myself too many elements there.

Yep. I thought at the beginning, you were going to do like a pan of chocola. I thought that was what, where were we going? You were making a pan of chocola, and I was like, oh, is he going to say podocastola? Okay, you can't come for me, and then that's what you've got as a backup. I think that was pretty good. Podocastola? Yeah, like a pan of chocola. Absolutely. A pan of chocola, but it's a podcast. You're not a punster, are you? A pod of chocola. Tim Vine would say that. Tom Vine would say that. Tom Vine would say that.

Tom Vine, that's a pun on Tim Vine. Tom Vine. Short for tomato Vine. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Tomato on the Vine. Let's just agree to disagree. We're both great comedians. Podocastola. Podocastola, the cookie cutter of great fun friends. Yeah. We've done pretty well there on the Off Menu podcast with Ed Campbell and James A. Caster, where we invite a celebrity guest into the dream restaurant and ask them their favorite ever.

A main course dessert, side dish, and drink. Not in that order. And this week, our guest is Jamie Oliver. Jamie Oliver, legendary chef. I mean, you know, he's done so much. I throw the term national treasure around a bit on this podcast. Yeah, sue me. I'm going to say Jamie Oliver's a national treasure. He is. I watch Naked Chef as a teenager. It was the most comforting show on TV, and I think he has maintained that vibe throughout his career. I find a lot of the Jamie Oliver shows and the cookbooks

quite comforting. They're warm, Ed. They're warm. They are warm. And he's got a new book, James, which I'm very excited about. It's called Jamie Oliver Together, and it is out now. It's just come out. We're getting the hot exclusive on this. And they're like full meals in their starter mankels dessert, just like this pod. Yes. If you have your friends around for dinner. And these are the courses you can make for everyone. There's loads of cocktails at the back as well.

He's true, actually. I've just realized that he's gone with the off-menu format of starter mankels dessert. We're sewing him. We're sewing him. I'll read it. Maybe in the back he says, shout out to the off-menu podcast for coming up with the starter mankels dessert format. Yes. So we're going to sue him. Yes. See you in court, Jamie.

And we're in a good place to start the legal proceedings, because we're in Jamie Oliver HQ today to interview Jamie. We are. He's welcomed us into his HQ, even though we're about to slap him with a subpoena. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. We're going to get him with a subpoena when he comes in here. But like we're in like a room that's like half of it is a kitchen that is made for filming the other and the rest of it is a studio.

But downstairs is a big open-plan kitchen. People cooking food. There's offices of people testing out food. It's a very exciting place to be. Yeah. It feels like I'm Joe Watt. I'm in the hub. Yeah. That's what I feel like. I'm in the hub here. And it's going to be very awkward when we have to kick Jamie Oliver out of his own hub.

Yes. If he says the secret ingredient. That would be a massive shame. We feel pretty bad about it. But I think we're pretty safe this week. And maybe people will be annoyed that we're about to choose this as a secret ingredient. Because it's always an ingredient that we don't like. They choose it. We kick him out.

But everyone will know that there's no way Jamie Oliver could choose this one because he's gone on record saying he doesn't like it himself. Secret ingredient this week is Turkey Twizzlers. Turkey Twizzlers. OK. Come on. Get off our back, guys. Of course. Very much the figurehead for the bad school dinners that Jamie took a stand against. For all those years ago.

Yeah. And good on him. Good on him. Good on him. He had the health of the nation's youth. And guess what? When I was a little boy, I loved Turkey Twizzlers. Yeah. But you did. But you put a big pile of Turkey Twizzlers. Called it meat spaghetti.

Did you? Put them all together. Meat spaghetti. Slurp it up. Spaghetti and meatballs. I put one in my mouth and I go around to the girls. And I say, suck the other end. Well, lady in the trunk with a Turkey Twizzler.

Did you say that while you had the Turkey Twizzler in your mouth? Yeah. What do you do? What do you do? Lo-lo-lo-lo-lo-lo-lo-lo-lo. Yeah. Yeah. The thing is about that, I don't know if you're joking or not.

I don't know if you're making that up. Yeah, I went to a boys' school. Oh, yeah. So you said it to the boys. I said it to my French teacher. Excuse me, Miss. No, he used to say, pardon moi. Pardon moi, madame. P-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p-p...

Ed, we ran away together. Well, that's nice. Nice end to the story. Some stories have nice endings here on the Off Menu podcast. Ed ran away with his French teacher, who he did a lady in the trunk with a Turkey Twizzler with. That's very nice. But, if Jamie says Turkey Twizzlers, he's out of here.

Yeah. Sorry, Jamie. It's going to be logistically quite hard. Just we'd desolate, Jamie. Yes. Let's crack on with it, shall we? Yeah, very excited. Not often we get a chef.

We've had two in a row. Two in a row. Aisy last week. Jamie Oliver this week. Let's see. What is the dream menu? Sorry. The off-menu menu, what do you do?

You say the off-menu menu? This is the off-menu menu of Jamie Oliver. Jamie Oliver. MUSIC Welcome, Jamie, to the dream restaurant. I love your restaurant. BOOSH! Welcome, Jamie Oliver, to the dream restaurant.

We've been expecting you for some time. Here we are. Now, this is a rare occurrence in the dream restaurant. We are actually somewhere that you normally are. We're in your HQ. Yeah. So, the decor is literally, you know, it might be how you have your dream.

Well, this is a studio, so it's one side normal and then three sides bit odd. Yeah. White. But, yeah, this is where I work. Fully functioning kitchen there. Thank you, so are you not normally mobile? Are you normally in a central place?

No, we've been about. We've been about. We've been about, yeah, but not normally with such sort of specific decor to the person we're interviewing. Interesting. Yeah. So, really, you're on my turf.

Does that... Does that have a problem? Yeah, yeah. It feels like this was real power play from you. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? This is your HQ. I promise it's not a power play,

but it definitely was a diary play. Yeah, sure. It's kind of amazing this place, though. We walked in. There's a fully working kitchen downstairs. We came just after lunch, which was disappointing. Huge office. Everyone working here.

Obviously, chuffed beyond belief to be working here because they get an amazing lunch every day. They do. It was great. You know, I'm lucky. It's taken me 20 years to get organised, just so you know. Like, the journey to here,

we only got here three years ago. Yeah. That is 17 years of, like, busking it and crappy offices and, like, nicking the desk here and there. And I got to a point where I thought, actually, more so from the creative side, like, if you can get creative people in one place

and you're creating opportunity for, like, corridor meetings and sharing ideas and stuff. But if you're ever around at 12 o'clock, I'm not just saying this. Come in. Like, there's always a bit of grub. Yeah, you're gonna regret that.

Also, when we walked in, with that big, open kitchen, when you walk in downstairs, and there was, it was clearing up from after lunch, and there was a little boy, probably primary school age, and he was just sifting through a tray of corn on the cobs. And I was like,

that's the next Jamie Oliver. That's what I thought to myself. I was like, I could be looking at the next Jamie Oliver. It could be. No, I don't remember seeing this. I saw a little boy. You saw a little boy beneath him. He was shaking his head.

This doesn't look good. In my head, there was a little boy. There was a little boy. That's actually one of our team's son. He's working, but like, there's no one to look after the kids at home. So we, a lot of our team here are parents. So I think, like,

I've tried to work out, like, what does a good boss look like? So that's one of the things a good boss has to do in this day and age. Bring him in, let him sit through the corn on the cobs. Have you got kids, you two? No. It's really hard. But this is what I've heard.

This is why I don't have kids. It's amazing, but hard. And I think just, like, sometimes the simplest things make you feel like the world's caving in. Like, you just can't do it. Yeah. And it's literally things like, I've got no one to look after.

So bring him in. Yeah. We love it. And so it happens fairly often. But yeah, my dad totally, because I grew up in a pub and dad's a proper old-fashioned graft. Like, put your hours in. But, like, people can come and go when they want.

They can work from, even before COVID, they could work from home Monday to Monday Fridays. And my dad was so worried. He's like, you'll never get any work out of them. I think in this day and age, like, people just, like, they'll put the graft in if people are flexible. Yeah.

So I've never wanted kids either. But, lately, the corn and the cob in my house has been quite disorganised. Now I'm thinking... Is this a euphemism? Maybe I could have a kid. Yeah, sift through your corn on the cob. Organise that corn on the cob. Yeah.

For organisational reasons. Yeah, just, like, do a lot of admin for me. That kid doesn't seem like a hard worker. Are you quite an organised person in the kitchen? Do you have, like, everything in, like, the right drawers and lined up in the right way? Yeah, so I think I've got it all in the place as well. At least I know where it is, and it makes sense to me.

I used to work in kitchens growing up, and I know that I don't have strictly everything in the right place. If I was in a, like, you know, a pub kitchen, it would probably be in the wrong place. But I know where everything is, makes sense. And I'd like to get everything chopped up and ready before I make something. Oh, you're one of those. I'm one of those people.

Yeah, interesting. So I think I'm organising that. And I don't like it when the... What does your sock drawer look like? That's quite good, actually. Do you fold them up and put them in a line? They're balled up. Are they colour-coded?

They're not colour-coded. They're all they're balled up. And I used to do it. I don't know how yours looks, but I used to do it balled up with a bit, like, the tongues hanging out. You know that one? Wow. Well, they're balled up, but that's, like, not completely balled up.

Not in perfect balls. That's how I do it. Yeah, so two little... Together at the end, but then two little... Almost like a little pair of trousers. Wow. Yeah. But now I've got fully balled up,

because, for a while, my flatmate, he'd always, like, you know, fold all the clothes up, because he was there for... He was more nice than me. That's cute. And he'd completely ball my socks up. And you didn't like the tightness. I thought it was a bit of an invasion of pride.

I was like, that's my socks, and you're kind of completely balling them up. But it's two... But now it's what I do. Yeah. Now I can't stand it when they're flapping out. Well, I had a revelation with boxer shorts. Yes.

Have you ever heard the brand Sax? No. No. SAXX. Right. Like, so, look, if one could give one, like, a gift. Yeah.

Like, I'm not even joking, right? So, and I'm not... I have no relationship with coming at all. I think you're about to... Well, I had... The crew who we use, we had this moment, like, what are you wearing? They all pull up a little bit.

Can't I be a client? I can't be a client. But... And I bought them all Sacks. Yeah. If you want to have your balls cradled by an angel. Yes. All day.

Who doesn't? Every day. Yes. They have, this is the truth, a GM, ballpark technology. I'm going to... Before you leave, I've got some downstairs.

I'm going to show you some. I'm not going to give you them, but I'm going to... Give me a little taste. So, if someone said to them, what's Jamie like as a boss, they'd say, he makes us all wear the same pants. Well, I don't have many men in the company.

We're, like, 85% ladies, so that wouldn't work. But for the men that are here, I have tried to... I'm not trying to get them on to Sacks because I'm pushing, like, a cool brand. Yeah.

It's got nothing to do with cool. And, actually, in fact, they're not that cool to look at. Yeah. I don't think. But ballpark technology. But... But ballpark...

I'm not even joking. No. It's like... You were saying, one of the biggest revelations in the last two years, it's that. Yeah.

So, if you're a fella listening to this, if you don't believe me, then just try it because your eyes will go and then that is it. But then, also, if you're a woman listening to this and you want to get your fella a present for Christmas or birthday, honestly...

You should call new male employees into the office and say, you're going to give them the Sacks. How do we get on to this? Oh, socks. Yeah. Socks and socks. On socks, though,

what's your strategy? Do you consciously buy them or do you just get value things? At the minute, I need to buy new socks. I'm aware of it and I keep on thinking in my head, come on.

How do you split up the thoughts of sports socks versus, like, going out looking fairly? Very clever. I don't do sports. So, that's how I get around that. Yeah, but I don't go out. I wear sports socks the whole time.

Oh, yeah? Most of the time I wear sports socks. Ed never knows what he might need to run away. Yeah. Ed's always got to be. Yeah. I wear tube socks a lot of the time,

to be honest. OK. I just kind of wear M&S socks, old man's socks. Yeah. M&S is not to be shunned, though, is it? I'm quite keen on M&S pants.

What about Sacks, though? Yeah. You can't abandon Sacks. Not for men, not for men. Female. I'm not into trendy female knick-knacks. No. Ah, no.

Just give me, like, clean, fresh, like, utilitarian pants from Mark Suspensers. Yeah. Have you been to Asian provocateur? I've done lots of presents there. Yeah.

I had, yeah, yeah. Where did you get it? Don't ask us how I got into this. Asian provocateur is amazing, but that just, that just all looks like it hurts. Yeah. A bit of a faff.

You want to be comfy in life. We've watched you on TV over the decades, and you were a man with a lot of empathy. And I imagine if you saw someone wearing underwear that you thought looked painful, you wouldn't be able to enjoy it for yourself.

Yeah, especially if you're a chef in the kitchen and putting in a 12-hour shift and you're like, damn, that's going to hurt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. You can't have that.

But it's a fashion thing, as well, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Types of underwear. So socks, so you're methodical, so you've got a spice rack

that's in order? No, no. Okay, so your socks in the drawer with the bit hanging out doesn't correspond to how you treat your spice rack. He keeps his spices

in the sock drawer. Oh, yeah, yeah. All pulled up in the socks and they were all right. Delicious. No, so I've got like, you know, I've got a cupboard,

three shelves in the cupboard, bottom shelf in there, just in a random order. And I've got to kind of like, peer over so that I can see the tops of them all.

Oh, I see. And then there's stuff like, you know, the certain ones that are all green tops and I can't see the labels on them and I've got to pull them out one by one

and I do think a spice rack would be easier. Yeah. I quite like recycling jam gels for spice racks. Oh, yeah. Yeah. A little label on them.

Yeah, I had a revelation like when I was much younger in my first flat. Like, when you use a jam gel and you wash it up, I had a simple shelf and I screwed

the lid to the underneath of the shelf so that you just put the jam gels on so they float underneath. Oh, nice. And then put the ones on top. So in a small amount of space,

you can have like, literally 30 spices and you can see it all. Great. And it's recycling. That's great. And it's quick, quick release. That is cool.

Favorite spice? My favorite. Yeah. Fennel seeds. Oh, salad. Nam. It's not my bad word, is it?

No, it's not your bad one. It's been the one in the past because it's the one food that I don't like. Everything else I like. No, I get it. Fennel, I wrestle with still. And I'm trying to get better at it, Jamie.

Do you hate the seeds? Yeah, so I hate this. So I've had, you know, the other day, I had some fennel seeds in some red cabbage, pickled red cabbage with fennel seeds in them.

Got it. I ate it. I wasn't, but those, that element of it was like, I'll prefer it without it. That's interesting.

I wouldn't have expected fennel seeds. Here's the thing, right? So all I would say, like, of course, personal preference, subjectivity and all that. Yeah. But there's some spices

and herbs, let's say fennel seeds or bay leaf, where in recipes, throughout hundreds and hundreds of years, you'll see like one or a tiny bit of that. Mm-hmm. And then you start saying,

well, does it really make the difference? And what's the point? With both. Like, let's say with bay leaf or fennel, if you were to take, like, a little in a pork and put loads of bay and loads of fennel

and salt and pepper and roast it hard and let it catch, but don't overcook it and turn it and then hit it with vinegar. Like, the magic happens. So what the point I'm making is like,

there's some things that I'll just put a little bit of this and no, no, no, my point is like go big. Yeah. So like, like, whether it's fennel tea that's delicious, that's really simple, like, really just quite nice

if you don't want to just smash coffees all day but you want something to give you. Or if you just want to, like, cook pork or chicken or a layer of a curry where it will disappear. So I'm not saying you won't still hate it, but I do think, like, you just got to go big

or go home with both of those things and there's other things. You know, that's my revelation, anyway. But each to their own, I guess. I love that that's your number one, though. It's a big, it's a big... I don't think I would guess it. So I like it because it can go into the world of curries.

It can go into all of the Mediterranean. It can get lost in things or it can own things. You can go poultry, meat, fish, gold. But also you get the seeds dried but you get the flour, you get the pollen, you get the bulb. Yeah.

And it's so good for you. I just love fennel. But I hate the aniseed and absinthe. Right. Probably because I had a hallucinogenic experience. Right. And I don't like it in whatever that shot is. Zambuca.

Zambuca. Yeah, that's not good. That's horrible. But that doesn't... That was the signature of every end of bad night, wasn't it? Yeah. Joe Watt, there's a very specific type of person who, when it hasn't been bought up at all,

no one's been talking about it, but on a night out comes back and they haven't asked anyone with a tray of zambuca and you're like... I hate those people. Yeah. I don't like those people. Yeah, I would be tempted to hide laxative in their food.

Yeah. Just as a reprisal. Reprisal? There should be a recipe in the new book. Together? Together. For those people. If those people are coming round at a secret recipe

where one of the ingredients is laxative. It'd be like, you think you've all been invited here because I love you. Yeah. But it's actually... You've all done things in the last 10 years that deserve to be paid back. They look around and go,

hang on, what are all the people that... They'll wake up a week later. Yeah. Yeah. I was looking for your new book. Well, and I'm very excited about some of the recipes. I was mainly flicking through and looking at the desserts because I don't really make...

I'm a big dessert fan. Yeah. But don't really make desserts at home. Yeah. So I was looking at a lot of them and the rhubarb and custard float in Ireland is one that I might give a go. Yeah, it's quite old-school

and a lot of people don't... It's not really in restaurants and it's not really in takeaways and it's delicious. Oh, my God. I love rhubarb, eh? Yeah. But they're just like...

And actually, everyone thinks... Obviously, making meringue, wherever you go, French, Swiss, Italian, they're all different styles, but, like, you just whisk it up and then you poach it in milk. It's, like, so fast. So I love all that.

There's quite a lot of nostalgia in that book, which is a nice thing. What do you think? Was it, like, a conscious thing that you wanted to make it more nostalgia, because that's how you were feeling at the time? Every book I've written has a very clear point and it's not necessarily for everyone,

but without trying, like, generally, I'm solving a solution one year and then going on a kind of adventure the next. It doesn't always work out like that, but they're very different books and they're popular in different ways. And, like, one's for more than mass people answering a question

and one's kind of more kind of geeky foodie. And it's quite nice to do both, because being in one or the other is kind of, like, not as exciting. But this one was kind of, obviously, sculpted by COVID and lockdown. And all the emotions that we've all had... I can presumptuously say we've all had,

because we have. And that's about the concept of togetherness and, like, all right, so, yeah, the world's opening out again and restaurants and support your locals. But at the same time, technology's never made it easy to get a takeaway, so you've got the latest technology in one hand

and then you've got the concept of that on the other. And it's not saying that that should replace that. It's just that people are actually scared of doing dinner parties. And I've never written... I've done lots of recipe books, but I've never written one which is about, like, here's the start of Michael's dessert,

here's some nibbles, here's a cocktail. This is why I love it. And it doesn't mean that you have to follow it. It's just giving you an intention. And I guess what I would want, and I kind of... is that you will... well, I don't like fennel,

so I won't do like that bit. But the fact that I've said what I like to do helps you kind of get... So I think, like, for me, like, the idea of creating memories in a moment as romantic and cheesy as that sounds is true because that's what we've all missed out on. And actually, we've learnt lots,

and actually everyone's got their COVID stories about mums and dads and friends and aunties or kids or this. And so I've written this very differently so you get ahead. Which doesn't sound like radically different, but it's a totally different style of writing. So you get ahead, so then you don't have to sit there

slaving away in the kitchen when your mates come around. You're kind of focused on your mates having a laugh with good stuff just ticking away in the background. What about if someone, say, not necessarily me, quite likes having to go to the kitchen all the time, so they don't have to interact with their guests? Is there anything in there for me? But then you just default and have your own cocktail in there.

Or just do it all ahead and then just sort of stand in the kitchen doing nothing. I think you've got the flexibility to be stuck in the kitchen. Right, great, OK. But the way that I put it together is that you don't have to be bolted there, like, do stuff now and then enjoy yourself later. But even cocktails, which I've presented to you with...

Yeah, you've given us a cocktail. Is this the first time a guest has made a something? It is. Really? Yes. Right, you're, like, years into this. No one's ever given you anything in all these years. No, but to be fair, we've never given a guest anything either. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Catherine Ryan bought some Pringles along with her,

and we had some of that, to be fair. Yes, Catherine Ryan did bring some Pringles. That's true. Pringles. This is a jammy margarita. You can batch this up, so you can do it the day before, the week before, whatever. But it's basically, you take your favourite jam, tequila and quantro, lime,

stir it up, put it over ice. It's a great cocktail to get into. What's quite nice is if you like another jam, then you just go for black currant or blackberry. But I quite like cocktails. I find... Maybe I grew up in a pub, so, theoretically, I guess a snowball was a cocktail. Yeah.

But I didn't really understand them until 20 years ago, when I realised that a glass of something could be constructed to disarm the biggest arsehole on the planet. It's kind of like... You know that kind of concept of, like, a place of emergency. It's kind of like, no, actually,

this is going to work. The first one that I did was a sidecar. I don't know if you've ever had one of those, but that's pretty strong, and it works. Yeah. Sometimes what I didn't want to do, although I respect it deeply, is cocktail dudes have got so technical

and talented over the years, but I don't want to give you a recipe for a stock syrup that you've got a simmer away and put in a bottle and blah, blah. You don't need a stock syrup. Booze, booze, jam, lime. And then get your taste buds going. That's super tasty.

My first cookbook ever? 20-minute meals? Really? 30 or 15, actually. But I did an app that was 20. It is 15, but it's quite slow. Well, listen, I was 20 every time. 15-minute meals, then, it would have been.

First time I moved out, that was the cookbook that I think was given to me. Who gave it to you? I think my parents. All my sister, maybe. I did a lot of stuff in there. The one that I kept doing all the time and eventually I could do it for memory

was the meatloaf. Meatloaf all the time. I would make a whole meatloaf. But how good its meatloaf is. It was great. I'd smash up the cream crackers with a rolling pin wrapped up in the tea towel. Make a meatloaf for everyone.

I loved it, Jamie. Is it me sitting on the cover like that, looking all surly and serious? Is it Ministry of Food? I think it's Ministry of Food, man. Was there a chapter in it that was 20-minute meals in Ministry of Food? There you go.

You weren't wrong. I was right and wrong at the same time. Ministry of Food. I really like... When I moved to London, I was working in a school and there was this little gap in between those two things to have food.

And so I was going straight to that cookbook. And couldn't you eat before a gig? Cos I've heard a lot of comedians say that, like, no, I don't eat until after. I'm very little respect for the craft. So it was very easy for me to eat before a gig. The rice...

That was the first thing I made in that book. Probably the first meal that I made on my own in a kitchen. Really? Was from that book. It's kind of a moment, really, isn't it? You mean a lot to me, man. Well, I'm grateful that your parents chose me. They obviously thought that you were in good hands.

How wrong they were. I can't believe you've finally made a cocktail that can disarm the biggest asshole on the planet. Well, I'm sorry. We always start with still or sparkling water on this podcast for your dream meal. Still. I have no respect for sparkling. It just gives you wind.

No respect. No! I mean, there is... I actually did a water tasting once. I'm not sure if this is a random story, but I'm going to tell it anyway. So when we opened 15 years ago, the sun asked us to do, like, a water tasting. And my head, Semele,

he was an amazing Australian young contemporary call Semele, but, like, deeply geeky, but, like, cool with it. Amazing conversations with customers just to get them the right wine. They asked him to do a water tasting. So I came into the office above the restaurant,

and he had his feet up, and he was looking at the piece that he'd written about a water tasting. Of course, it's like, you know, it's a bit shit, isn't it? It's kind of like wine, Semele, and you're doing a water tasting. So I just walked in and just said, only a wanker would have to do a water tasting,

you know, and give him a bit of abuse. And he goes, he goes, oh, my mum, he's on the phone. He goes, my mum's quite upset. So rude. But I didn't believe it, it was his mum. And I picked the phone up and it really was his mum. Cos he's always, like, winding me up.

I'm like, oh, no. Anyway, yeah. But that was all sparkling water from different places, and mountains, and naturally sparkling, carbonated, and I still don't like it. Still don't, yeah. Did you do the water tasting and get talked through it and stuff?

Yeah, like some soft and some hard. Do you know what? Like, I quite like tap water. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it's because it's free and that's more powerful than the nuances of, I don't know. I know that they're right,

but I'm just happy to sort of just... Just a big glass of tap water for the best. And cold water on a hangover is one of the most beautiful things in the world, isn't it? You say, I love you. What's your dream meal? Would you like the water that gets brought out

to the beginning to be cold water and for you to have a hangover? Yes, if the hangover only lasted until the end of the first sip. Yeah, just that relief that comes with the first sip of water and then the hangover goes. But have you ever had that feeling

when you feel so rough that you go, you look at the glass of alcohol or a bottle and you go, I hate you more than life itself. I love you so much. I really want like seven apples right when I'm hungover. That just feels like, yeah.

I really start to crave it and like I have to have it. Baraka always feels like some form of fun. Mainly because your pee goes luminous, but always fun. Well, it feels like, you know, it's working. Whereas it's the opposite, isn't it? It's not working, it's all the stuff

coming back out. If forever, from now until forever, it's one color, but can be any color in the whole rainbow, any color in the world. What color would you like to pee every single time? Good question. Thank you. Good question. It's the most surreal question.

I don't think I've ever asked anything so weird there. We'd pick each other up. No, but that's amazing friendship. I love that. Appreciate that, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, the color of this wire, which is a vivacious, vivid blue, would be a lot of fun and never get boring.

It'd look like a WKD blue. But the novelty would wear off straight away. Surely. You'd have one day of doing a blue wee and then you'd be like, well, that's just what my wee looks like now. But also, going skiing would be fun. Going skiing would be great fun. Because then you get blue snow.

Yeah, that'd be fun. I think any other color. Yellow's crazy. The fact it's yellow is really mad. Mad. But if everyone's is yellow, then blue's more exciting, right? Yeah, you're the blue one. If there was anything else, people would think you were ill. So it's like, did you ever hear about the carrots?

Go on. What color are carrots? Orange. So, like, back in the day, the Dutch royal family, the House of Orange, like, obviously, technology, you know, limited X, Y and Z. So their version of propaganda

of how prolific the Dutch country farmers were was to take the original carrot that was purple and then just turn it orange and make it so good and so prolific that the world's carrots went orange. What?

So that was, like, one of the earliest forms, in my opinion, of, like, edible propaganda. So people think that carrots are orange, but that actually isn't. The original ones are those trendy ones you'll see at the farms. Which are purple. And if you come in half, there's a little bit of orange in it. And it's that bit they bred for.

So my point being that if everyone's got orange pea, if you're looking at the purple, it kind of makes you feel smugly special. Yeah. Imagine going to a nightclub, though, and you're all pissing up the urinal, and then you've got a streak of that coming out.

Yeah, yeah, the streak of the blue. Everyone's like, who's that called? The guy by the soaps and the odor toilet is going to blow his mind, isn't it? How did you do a chop-a-chop? Like, you okay? Suck on this yellow chop-a-chop, so we can turn it back.

Pop-a-dums have thrown through. Yeah. I mean, I'm a massive fan of pop-a-dums. Yeah. I have been lucky enough to travel to India and see them used in many forms. I also used to work in an Indian restaurant. What is coming in here?

Some pop-a-dums. Why are you surprised at that? Well, I knew you were going to say it. So this is... You just bought a tray of pop-a-dums. That's a quarter of a pop-a-dum that you know. Yeah. I know this one. I wanted to show you some other pop-a-dums.

Oh, mate! One of the nicest things I did when I was much younger is... I don't know if it translates... I mean, it does translate into your game, because I'm sure you've done your fair share of comic gigs for nothing. So in the chef game, you call it a starch,

and you just go and work for a day a week, a month, and I've done a load of time in just different... It's a way of going to the kitchen to sort of see if you want to work there, or if you can learn some things, but they haven't got to employ you. But I went and worked in this Southern Indian restaurant

called Raza, and there's still one left in East London. And this is like a celebration pop-a-dum, where it's essentially ground dal, which is lentil, so they're super healthy. So we know the round one. Yeah. Yeah. This one is basically a batter

that's got a mould in it, and it's dipped and shaken, and that's for celebrations. And also, a lot of Brits, we eat pop-a-dum as like a starter or crispy bits at the beginning, but actually, it's the pop-a-dum that is a texture that would normally be kind of crushed sort of over

your rice to give you... And you'd have it with part of the meal, but this one obviously breaks up differently, but also you can pick it up and scoop up the... So that, just to explain, this is like a star-shaped... It's beautiful. Pop-a-dum. So this is why I love pop-a-dums.

It's the same, but different spices piped out of the piping bag. Yeah. Straight in. And then this one is a pop-a-dum, as you know it, a slice of it, but dipped in a spiced batter of the same thing. Right, right, right.

And it gives it an outer coating, so have a try. Wow. Thank you very much. It looks like a big Doritos. Yeah, and have a tip of this, by the way, like seriously, like... I don't want to overtake the format, I'm sorry. Free food. It's the funniest thing to do to us at the end.

Yeah, please. Bring some fillet at the end. That's great. And the spiced batter isn't too overpowering either, so it's a nice spice to it. Yeah, because I think, like, in Kerala, they're mainly vegetarian. They eat fish, but they're like...

So if they're having a curry every day and a rice every day, the things that really change often are the pickles and the types of pop-a-dum. So if you look at that, this one, this is the piped-out one that's got kind of, like, I don't know how to describe it, it's like prickly, sort of, wormy shape.

But if you tip... If you... That shape sticks on all the sauce. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, you got it. It's like a posh knick knack. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed that little... I love it. I mean, I genuinely had no idea there were so many different types of pop-a-dum in here now.

Working in that kitchen was one of the most inspirational things for me, personally. How long were you there for? Only three weeks. Yeah. It was like a little stash. No one spoke any British. They were lovely people. I was annoyingly famous for saying the word

pucker quite a lot in those days. Yes. Which is annoying, but I was annoying because I was 23 or 24. Listen, we didn't find you annoying back then, James. I bet you bloody did. I don't even feel like you have to say that kind of stuff. I loved you saying pucker. It was great. You know what I found annoying?

It looked like you saying pucker. Do you know what I mean? It's like anyone who doesn't like pineapple on a pizza or anything, that's not your opinion. You're just adopting it from everybody else. It's going, I wish you'd stop saying pucking. No, you don't. It's not factoring into your life. Shut up.

Get me another cocktail. I love it. Keep it rolling. No, but it was amazing. They say that word, pucker means the real deal, authentic. So the only word I could speak of their language was pucker, so it just made me worse. What was amazing is like, you know, when you're trained to cook, it's like recipes

and protocol and this and the other. It was like quarter to six, 15 minutes from service, and no curries were made on day one. And I'm looking at this dude. It's a busy restaurant. And this thing just happened before me

that just took me, it completely changed how I thought about fennel seeds and spice and layers of flavour. And this single man took 15, 16 different sized pans. Every pan's size was sort of, it had a relationship with how popular the dish was. And he then put coconut oil

in every single pan, on a hot top, and would then go through a range of 30 spices and would take a big fist and have half a shake, two shakes, one shake and just layer and just go through

and every 20 pans, 16 pans. And then by the time it was five past six, there was 16 different curries made with vegetables like whole fish, prawns, like done. And then for the next hour and a half,

they'd all be just kind of reheated and popped out all fresh, like ginger and curry leaves. And the curry that I'd grown up with, which I think is probably what we all grew up with, was more of a northern Indian Bangladeshi style sort of slow cooked curry and very robust.

This was like nothing. It was tropical. Ten minutes to make a curry. Wow. So that sort of definitely made an impression on me. Anyway, I digress. So you'd have all these different kinds

of poppadums for your dream meal. You'd have like a bowl like this with all the different ones in it. And I think metaphorically speaking, the idea that one thing can be a whole world of things is a poppadum, don't they? Can I have the dips? Can I have the dips with it? Yeah, man. Have all those dips.

That's a coconut dip. I like the coconut dip over there. Garlic and lemon pickle. That's a tamarind one there. By the way, rars are still going. And it's East London, definitely worth a visit. Really good value.

It's mainly vegetarian now, I think, which just makes it super good value and delicious. Let's start your dream meal proper now with your dream starter. OK. So it's quite a big question to choose one, but I kind of got it down

to maybe my first understanding about the concept of a starter, because if you think about it, like, what is it? I know it's a starter, but just to have dinner. So I was about eight years old. I lived in the pub. So down the stairs was the pub.

But since day one, I'd always had, like, he was a chef, but we had, like, seven chefs in the kitchen. So I didn't realise it until I left home many years later, but he was actually one of the early gas show pub dudes. So whole animals, fish days, crabs, lobsters, cooking everything,

picking everything, you know, like, local produce game and all that business. And I remember one day the chef running up with such excitement, and I was tiny, and I was looking up, and my mum said, what's the matter with it? And he was just going mad about these things called an avocado.

And, like, they weren't in the shops of the supermarkets. No way. And I know we all have it now, and I think more avocados were sold than oranges last year. It's like we've all gone avocado mad, but only a short moment at a time. And I remember thinking, well,

now, first of all, hey, how can a human be so excited about a vegetable? That's not normal. But as you can see, like, you know, I get quite excited about different food. And we didn't know how to touch it or feel it or cut it, but he turned it into

or put it in, like, a prawn cocktail. And I remember as an eight-year-old eating that. And if you think about it for a kid, like, there's, like, salad in there, well, most kids don't default to that. There's, like, prawns, which, like, maybe they don't default to that.

Mayonnaise, they probably do in ketchup, but, like, you put avocado through it. I remember eating that thinking, this is a miracle. You've got textures, sweet, sour, tangy, spice, you know, dash of Tabasco and Worcestershire sauce and a tiny bit of whiskey.

Mayonnaise, ketchup, tiny thimble of brandy was a cayenne pepper, lemon juice, Worcestershire sauce, a bit of Tabasco, like, delicious with prawns. And actually, all my kids love that. I would have a prawn cocktail.

Yeah. Made by that guy then, or one that you would make now for your kids. Do you want us to erase the memory of avocados since the first time? We can men in black avocados away from your mind. I don't mind. I'm not anti-avocado.

No, but then you can have avocado and discover it again for the first time. Like when you were eight years old. So we can men in black you, and then you will have, like, that first ever... Yeah, yeah. Let's do that. Yeah, yeah.

It's really working and I'm really concentrating. I'm looking at your mouth and everything and I'm like, I still don't know what he's talking about. He raised me. It feels cool. It feels cute. Every Christmas in the Acaster house, for my whole life, the starter has been avocados

with prawns in, like, Mary Road sauce. Yes. In the middle. In where the stone used to be. And I'm covering in that. Yeah. And I get very excited to have it. It's like a garlic... Actually, not even a Mary Road sauce.

It's actually quite a garlic mayo that my mum and dad defer to. Love it so much. I get very excited about it now. As a kid, it was like, oh, it's just part of Christmas, but now I'm, like, really excited for each year. And if, and God forbid this ever happens, I once turned up one year

and my parents had decided not to do it, I would definitely... But it's quite nice that they... It's just nice about Christmas and sort of getting onto the vibe of this, that togetherness vibe is... I think we don't like change. Yeah.

I even sit in the same place at Christmas, like, I just like repeating the same thing. But I could only pimp that ride. Mm-hmm. Like, if I ever go to a pub and I see a prawn cocktail and I just size it up and I'm like, oh, you dirty bastard. I'd order it, have a pint of beer,

but the way to pimp that ride is a portion of chips. But home, the proper chips. Yeah. Proper chips and prawn cocktail is a thing of beauty. Yeah. Are you dipping the chips? I'll dip everything. I mean, like, I'll just mix it up and get amongst it.

Do you know that the history on prawn cocktail was interesting? I think it went back to the American prohibition, because they didn't have any booze, so they weren't doing this. They had all the cocktail glasses free, not being used, so the chefs took them and, I guess, came up with that.

And sneaking Brandian by just tipping off. Well, yeah, I don't know if that's a later kind of like... Yeah. But there was a lot of... Yeah, there was a lot of underground booze, wasn't there? Yeah. Can you imagine trying... I can't believe they did that.

Imagine to try and take away a new country's booze. Yeah, I mean, they couldn't do it here. No, good luck. Can you imagine? Actually, it wouldn't work. That would be the end. Yeah, yeah. I tell you what we wouldn't do, start innovating and using the glasses to make new starts.

That's what I'd absolutely not tell you. There were no new dishes coming out of prohibition in Britain. That would be it. So, like, if we didn't put... Actually, I've got two questions now. With the chips, would this be a dish you serve in your restaurant? Someone could order, like, a bowl of chips,

and then you just dump a prawn cocktail on top of it and send it out for people. I think you'd have to dump it table-side. You'd have to bring them the chips. Yes. Show them both. And then just dump it on and go, there you go. You've ordered your chips and the prawn cocktail. I think there's a way of making it work.

Yeah. Hot and cold. Yeah. You know, hot and salty and crispy with soft and silky and tangy. I got a mate that I went to college with that I went... He's in Cornwall and he's got a little outside holiday summer restaurants.

He's got a couple of them called Craftworks. He does like street food, burritos and burgers and stuff like that, but he puts these little set-ups in farms with nice views and mainly takes the produce from the farm. And I turned up, like, last year and he gave me a portion of chips

and kind of did what... Like, did prawns and freshly pricked, picked crab from Port Isaac with, like, trendy mayonnaise's like Sriracha, kimchi mayonnaise's different colours. And I have to say, it was one of the best... I don't know what we're talking about.

I ate it and thought he was a genius, but I... It sounds amazing. I think about it all the time. When we went to New York in 2017 and we went to a place called Extra Fancy and they served us these sweet potato fries and they just dumped a clam chowder over on the top of it.

It was pretty phenomenal, yeah. It was so good. I mean, it is kind of theatre and bonkers and a bit surprising. Yeah. Yeah, I like it. I mean, like the Canadians, with the curds and gravy on the top. Yeah, the poutine, yeah. I mean, it's literally like a religion, isn't it?

Yeah, but you get the crispy ones and then you get the soggy ones at the bottom and it's all good, but it's just the mix of all the different textures. It's so good. Potatoes are good, isn't it? Yeah, they're pretty good. Have you ever grown a potato? I've never grown a potato. No. No, no, no. You?

Even when I lived, like, in London, like, with not much space, I used to grow them in, like, a tomato bag. Were you the only one of your mates doing that? Yeah, I was properly got the mickey taken out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember going leaving school and everyone's like, what are you going to do, what are you going to do? And I'm like, I'm going to be a chef.

And they're like, oh, you wanker. They thought it was a really rubbish job. And I think, for some reason, like, it's still not taken seriously, chefing. I don't think so. Like, we're not over-subscribed for chefs in this country. If you talk to any restaurant anywhere in this country now,

it's never been harder to get stuff. There's not cues of British people wanting to get chef jobs. Yeah. It doesn't exist. But it is an extraordinary job that can take you easily around the world and back again, and you never have to theoretically ever go hungry,

and you can get a job anywhere because everyone's always looking for a chef. And it is the most amazing window or key to any culture. Like, on multiple occasions, have been welcomed in incredible ways into families and homes. It's something that's been seen in key strangers

just because they know from my eyes and, mmm, like, no language. Just seeing them cook something and they all come and try it and you have a bit and they have a bit more. Do you know what? Because as a cook, if someone goes, oh, my God, that's... I think we've seen that in lockdown a little bit,

like, the kindness of people. And I think cooking and this vibe is, yeah, the gift of making people feel good through either care or the group of people and like music a little like did you do that did you do that but also just like when people have like I mean like chips mary wrote you know that I think it's a brilliant thing but I don't know why more people don't go into it I think ours scared of the head chefs yeah I think that's

I've worked in kitchens before yeah when I was working there someone said to me do want to go well I actively tried to not go so in the kitchen that I was in there was a back kitchen there was a front line where they did all the mains and all the grills and it was like a big deal if you went and I was offered to go there at one point I turned it down because the head chef was a bully and I didn't want to go anywhere near him and I think there's a lot of that sometimes of like if I try and be a professional chef in that kitchen that guy's just going to bully me and that'll be it yeah I say it to you because you're one of the few tv chefs who haven't been bullying people on tv yeah it has been a problem historically and I think they are high adrenaline

environments and then there's a degree of like you know likes certain industries there's like a lot of noise but it's just technical noise not sort of personal noise but certainly like 20-30 years ago sort of an amount of violence drugs and bullying and inappropriate behavior was sadly too common I think it has got way better and I think you know maybe social media has fixed some of that but it is an amazing job and who knows what will happen obviously the whole industry's had a tough time in lockdown it'll take years to bounce back and even if it could bounce back now there's not enough people just to to help them bounce back but I kind of I'm hopeful that you know just talented smaller local neighborhood restaurants and like they are that's what kind of makes

neighborhoods work isn't it like when you can get everything on an app yeah I think in five years time it will be in a good place but it's going to be a bumpy few years let's go on to your main course your dream main yeah and is this something that like is this one of your own recipes is this something you've had somewhere else yeah it doesn't have to be but like I think a curry night what I love about a curry night is color surprise like you just take a bit of this and the other everyone builds your own kind of plate but I just didn't grow up with that food yeah like it was it was classic English maybe French style food and I mean I sometimes eat stuff and I'm like how did they do that I mean the Indians just cook so well what I always liked

about it when I was a fat little boy as well Jamie is I liked just the opportunity to have maybe four mains in one meal yeah yeah just being like oh no it's a side dish and then have an entire plate of it yeah yeah it's like a loser a main really yeah it's so many but also they've kind of made veggies pretty cool right yeah onion barges come on yeah like a good onion bargy not a greasy like heavy one but like oh wow yeah yeah and somehow managed to make spinach like cool yeah it's like how did they do that Sarg Paneer was always my go-to yeah yeah yeah yeah when I've been to India and I've watched children cook in the street and technically looking at how they're cutting and measuring and and going I don't know if I could ever do that yeah that and just thinking God I really

must try a bit harder it is yeah normally would ask people like at this point I mean obviously we're gonna get into what specifically you want for this curry feast but like normally probably ask people what's the best curry you've ever had probably can ask you your top three probably I bet you've got like a lot of ones that stand out that would be interesting to hear about okay so when I worked in Raza they did this crab curry which was like nothing I and they just it had a lot of black pepper and incredible like curry leaves and bits and pieces and mustard seeds and coconut milk and it's very fragrant ginger and they just split the crab up and do this kind of very quick you know preparation and it was absolutely delicious and you can crack all the shells and

it's just it was messy it was delicious it was completely the meat is so sweet and flaky blew my mind I have to say I do love like the kind of chicken tikka vibes anything I mean not necessarily that but like those marinated chicken ones like in a tandoor where it's just blackened on the outside and juicy and white on the inside and luminous with spices and loads of lemon over the top and sort of dry but in on the outside definitely would mix up the meat and the fish if I was building my own perfect I wouldn't want to just go fish or just go veg or just I want it all yeah and then in in the veg world probably like either like a squash pumpkin curry because I just think it's wicked and delicious but this one was one that I saw but could never get

the recipe to so I had to just experiment and that is basically paneer yeah with the most amazing like bonkers green spinach sauce you get you marinate the the paneer and and tumeric and it's not that many ingredients for a curry really it's like fairly you know it's onions garlic ginger you know it's but that sort of green luminous gravies that with the chicken and the crab beautiful rice you did say poppadooms or bread I do love a naan but there is there is yeah but your main course is the curry feast you can obviously have a naan with the curry feast yeah you've had it you've got bread and poppadooms yeah but there's another one as well all right there's this bread that is potentially better than naan called a paratha and you basically lay out dough like a simple dough like this table

cloth yeah and then you just depending on what part of India they're from it could be ghee or you know or it could be coconut oil but they'll put the you know fat on it and then they'll roll it up like this and then they'll roll it up that way like a sort of snail and then they'll roll it out yeah cook it on a plancher or like a solid top or a grill or you know whatever on both sides and then they beat it up they're like yeah and and when you do that it all does that like this like shards and and what I think I've worked out is a little bit like that is they kind of that bread it's not just bread but the kind of way it's made turns into like an edible fork so you just like yeah and then you want this edible bread fork that you can dip into all the other curry yeah but like like

you were sort of saying earlier like when you had that sweet potato chips and like the chowder went on top it's like well what's what's going on yeah like when you bring the bread out and you put it on the board at the table and everyone's just chit chatting your mates having a little drink yeah and then you're going but then like it's annoying for just enough time yeah and it's just like try that and it's like oh I get it yeah yeah yeah so I don't know if this is getting too greedy for a main course but I quite like I think I think it is a last meal especially when you especially when you listen back to our episodes where we've had chefs on in the past which often this is a theme in the chef episodes yeah is that it's not just one thing it's often thinking about

everyone eating together loads of stuff going on and so if we didn't allow this it would be unfair because we've let other chefs do similar things so this is okay yeah yeah it's sort of it's when there's a chef on all rules are about yeah in fact you're probably the first chef who hasn't paired every course with some booze at some point so you know well I think I've got a healthy relationship with booze I mean I do like booze but I mean I grew up in a pub so weirdly like it's the opposite of maybe what you think like you have to respect the family business so yeah I've always had a kind of got a treat booze right otherwise it can take easily takes over you and and as you probably know like the the largest amount of alcoholics I think are surgeons chefs and comedians comedians but it's

like it's like it's a problem yes it's like you know I didn't know that about surgeons so that'll be and pilots oh great okay that's me not sleeping so I was kind of thinking like if you were eating food at 36,000 feet go into a country to have an operation I gotta say that I'm into cocktails and I'm into what I'm into everything apart from Moscow and Zambuca and is that because of bad past experience just terrible yeah it just represents everything painful that's happened as a teenager probably yeah but I think beer is the place I think beer is definitely got a good I think that the the the natural beer would be a cobra but I've got a little beer shop that's opened in my little town and he sources beers great beers from everywhere bunker stuff yeah and

there's two beers one's called ZUT Z-O-T delicious that'll be good with this the other one's called slag um but there's another one called posh so if you buy a bottle of posh yeah and a bottle of slag it obviously says posh slag now I don't see the funny side of it but everyone seems to find it deeply funny sure um that um some of those like Belgium German Dutch beers they're so good yeah and I think with a curry they'd be amazing yeah yeah they're the beers where you take a sip that tastes amazing you look at the bottle it's 10.5% yeah yeah some of them can be oh I'm going to space great yeah yeah I know some of them really can be yeah look at that I've got a flyer plane in a minute yeah but at least I'll remove this guy's appendix powerful and see as a kid because I used

my job in the pub was like so wash up clean toilets sweep out the front bottling up was one of the big jobs so replacing what was being taken and then taking the empties out and recycling them yeah I remember for ye I did it for years and years from a pocket money and I I never understood the small bottles the half bottles of like porters and all the high it's the high yeah stuff and and it wasn't until later on I realized that all the older men would come in um retired and they'd have they have a beer strategy I never understood the concept of a beer strategy this is very normal like I'm generalizing but there's like there's a clear association with higher alcohol and more flavor so it's easier to make a tastier beer with more but more booze so they'd start with a little

bottle of something like seven point something that whoo get it going and then they go right back down to three four like now we're going to go for the long game and but if you get it wrong of course like when you're just yeah you go to space and yes but I never understood it until many years later so are we like having that because like normally we're going to dream side now but is your dream side dish part of this feast or is there a different dream side dish I think the side dish probably was the naan and and the para yeah that's fine um I I don't know if that's allowed that's completely allowed yeah I mean you don't normally have a side of more carbs do you but sure there is vegetable curries in the middle of the table but that's another strategy I think you

learn in later life I certainly learn in later life with a curry is sometimes don't get the rice and the naan and then you got the poprums as well sometimes you can just have the bread and the curry and then you don't come away from it feeling like you need to roll roll down the corridor I agree but often when you go in you're so hungry that you get excited and then the over order oh no I always I always ignore my own strategy but you know yeah yeah how many times have you knowingly overordered when you're ordering and literally as you're doing it you're thinking there's no way I kind of have to do it for a job yeah because contrary to what people might think I do quite long hours at work and then um got five kids so I try and who's that guy that's your dad

so I try and be around for the kids so I don't actually get to go to restaurants that often so when I do like I don't like it could be posh or super underground or gnarly or whatever but it's got to be good otherwise I don't want to waste my time yeah but then also I want to see what they're doing so I if there's four of us like I'll order for 10 so I like what everyone orders their stuff but then I'll say can we have a little plate of that in the middle so I like it's it's kind of my job to over order which is kind of really nice but also one of the challenges of the I have to go I'm in the gym three times a week I should be about 10 times the size and I'm like but I'm paid to to eat yeah which is a really it's sort of it's a strange job but I think if you

want to get a full flavor of a chef or like it's quite good to you can't do it with one or two dishes unless you're really lucky but like it's quite nice to sort of see where they're going off piece and god that hit it on the point and that was a bit weird but kind of cool weird and so also it's a good menu you don't you don't want to order one thing or two things right you need to you need to get I mean I often do all the starters yeah just like right everyone's yeah how you doing better like you're having a good old chat and you've got to then then you've got to look at homework isn't he like yeah and I and just say look just pick your mains like all the stars please yeah that's a good vibe because it's sort of yeah you get a little taster do you like I don't

suppose you do like this no one likes this but have you ever had a waiter or waitress say to you I think that's gonna be too much like when you over order and they go the eyes this is a lot of food yeah well dude I'll take it in half portions or you can kind of feather it out slowly like I'm not going to eat everything you give me I just want to try it yeah so you can give it to someone else if you want to so it's that kind of banter yeah and and and then they sort of go okay well fair enough I guess it is your job the the other day in a restaurant actually as with a friend and we ordered all our stuff and we went is that enough and the waiter went yeah that's a that's a lot of food which is the catchphrase that's what they go for right it's

a lot of food and then we ate all of it and then they came back and went you did a really good job yeah I know I know we did a good job Benito and I had the opposite experience recently we went to a Mexican place and uh with some friends and the waiter said here we don't like to waste food so we'd like it if you I might he needs to be fired he's never gonna make any profit from it do you know how hard it is to make a pound in this industry it's called upselling yes no one's been promoted to undersell wow okay but the thing is is the name because then you know because we said about wasting food it puts it on your conscience so you're like okay I'm just going to order the amount that you said to order and so we did that

and then afterwards we were all like do you know what that was the perfect amount and I'm quite relieved we didn't order more than that okay that's good so we were quite and by the end I think we have both been turned around where we were like who's this little punk telling us well actually I was like that Benito didn't care he's a much more zen guy but uh I was like he believes that Benito that guy said that to us and then actually by the end that's like what do you think would have happened if I was there you would have uh you would have gone hmm okay I'll have more than that please and you don't tell me how to live my life and then he would have gone away and you would have gone why are you looking so uncomfortable Benito I spoke my mind I would have eaten it all

though wouldn't I you would have eaten it all and the guy would have had to eat humble pie and he would have had to eat the whole pie so he doesn't like to waste food I mean here's a conversation now I mean like I've worked in America for quite a while and I just didn't understand the kind of I'll take a box I mean of course it's great yeah and so but it's like a it just did not exist in Britain it may be a little bit now um it's just not something we've done in Britain is it sort of I'll take that to go thanks saying about the box to go home I nearly said thanks I remember there was something at some point in my life I can't remember if I was in a restaurant or whatever when if you wanted stuff to go they would get this tin foil they'd put the foods that you

were taking home in it and they would fold the tin foil up in a certain way that it would have a handle on it yeah and you would carry it out like that and then I started to think maybe I saw that on one of Jamie's TV shows that was yeah and it was you I used to do it yeah yeah so like people when I worked at the river cafe um it's quite glamorous restaurant and still is we'd have quite interesting well-known people coming in and they'd have this specific dessert called a chocolate nemesis which was like the most incredible expression of chocolate and people were like on it like crack it was like their their thing and they all so people would often take it if there was any left to go home so I used to get like a box cut it into the shape wrap it in foil sit a portion

or two on that and then wrap it in foil in such a way that it wouldn't get squashed and then turn it into a handbag because why not and then because I thought I was funny deeply not I'd kind of write parada on it or something and then you'd give it to some glamorous person and they would walk out with a tin foil parada nemesis bag so your dream drink I was that going with the beers that we mentioned earlier or is it something else I think my my dream drink changes like I didn't do beer for like four or five years and my mrs bought me probably bad move actually but she bought me a membership to the scotch whiskey society and basically you get a membership you get a nice mag come through every quarter

and then you get these taster bottles come through and they're always good and you always learn stuff and the mags put together nice and it's like interesting people and families and you know and then I I hated whiskey as a kid and it's like one of those things that I like hate in fennel seeds it's sort of like well but do you really yeah and the answer might be yes by the way but when what what they do is they go what style whiskey do you like so they kind of say do you like it peachy or smoky or floral or this or and you go that and they get rid of all the others and then within the world of that they bring you 10 versions of that and go would you like this that that the other and you go well that and that and then they get rid of all the others so

anyway the answer to the question is really good like single malt whiskey definitely not smoky definitely not peachy and what's funny is like it's run or driven by like what I see is like pachamac wearing geeks that are just like nuts about whiskey yeah the notes are insane like and like rude and contemporary and funny and ironic and and the names they call the bottles are like bunkers but what's really interesting about it is like they're not brands or what it is it's like white labels so what they have permission to do is to go and buy single barrels of anything it could be the most expensive or it could be like the cheapest but what's in that barrel is genius and it has a number and if you look up the number in the book or online you can find out

who made it but basically it's that's how it's like properly geeky anyway so for the last five years I have been my favorite drink would be probably a triple shot of really good single malt whiskey definitely quite fruity and and the kids in bed ideally a fire lit yeah and ideally like some tunes on what tunes you got on top later um last year in lockdown there was an album done by tom mish and use of days this drummer mm-hmm brilliant I mean honestly one of the best things I've heard in years that is an album is it's called what kind of music it's literally it's such a good album so that on fire lit an unusually large shot of single malt whiskey I do break like they say you shouldn't do it I do have an ice cube in it mm-hmm you've got to do

what you like though Rankers say you can't do that they say I only water from spring yeah it's that I quite like it being too cold and tasting one way and as it gets warmer it tastes another way so that's just my thing plus by the way it's full strength barrel strength yeah this can be like 52 wow mm-hmm yeah yeah you get a buzz on yeah but that's all I do I won't smash it yeah that's I'll that I just anyway I think that sounds great yeah perfect beyond the moon with that who are you here to space yeah I went to space yeah this is interesting salty to have with it you know like pop-dums yeah there's the saltiness there but now hopefully we're heading to something sweet for the dessert mm-hmm yeah it doesn't have to be sweet well it does if you want a cheeseboard

Jamie you're very welcome to a cheeseboard okay well Jamie obviously yeah I mean like I could take I mean I'm partial to cheese lovely cheese board the thing about cheese is what I learned I sent to my team here a box of cheese mm-hmm it's of all the things I've ever done in 20 years for my team it's the one thing they complained about it's the only thing they've really all been really happy about well that's weird but no they've everyone loves cheese man it's the thing perfect way to end the meal anyway we're not having a cheese but yeah we're not having a cheese we're not but cheese is powerful it would be my mum's which by default is my nan's trifle lovely it's quite old-fashioned it's not supposed to be elegant but it just sort of makes me feel

like the world okay and for some reason I can switch off most things and say well that's enough but with trifle like I could go on it's just a beautiful sea of heaven sponge yep sherry custard blamange and also like it can't be I don't like homemade custard no no no no it's got to be like it's got to be it's got to be birds yeah yeah it has to be and tinned clementines or mandarins what do you look forward to the most because when I think about a trifle what I've been looking forward to the most is always how the sponge goes in the in a trifle how like the texture of the sponge in a trifle is what I immediately think of and what I'd probably look forward to that mouthful where you've got some like of that I don't know how you describe it

how a sponge goes in a trifle but that texture that you get that you only trifle sponge yeah different to any other sponge yeah because it's like I think traditionally they used it was always like the old sponge or the old biscuits that they'd rehydrate yeah the like the sponge fingers yeah so it's just too dry like even with a tiramisu which is essentially a trifle yeah like it's like if it's too dry that's bad times and if it's too wet that's bad times so you got to get the equation right even though the individual parts are quite tacky but what I quite like about those individual parts is they would always be in my nan's cupboards tin fruit you know the tin custard powder the blumange the sponges so like I mean my mum would make like just a vanilla sponge and that was nice

and sometimes we'd chocolate and that's nice sometimes you'd buy that little rolled up one with the jam in between the layers and slice that nice and put it on the bias and sometimes it was the biscuits but I kind of like just the straight sponge myself yeah I'm open I'm open to to sponge inspiration but I do like the shaved chocolate and jelly is important yeah yeah jelly's not really fashionable anymore I mean like I did you remember like the packs of jelly that you've made jelly from oh eating that raw straight yeah and mum would say don't eat that your stomach will sit like jelly yeah basically was like you know almost convinced it was poisonous yeah the first thing I ate knowingly thinking this could kill me really but in a way it's just like mega jelly right it's the

ultimate concentration it felt like mega jelly it felt like so strong the flavour in it you know like I just want that cube of like pure jelly and it's like it's like like a little chocolate bar right you break it off in seconds yeah yeah and so many e-numbers that you get headache within 30 seconds yeah yeah that's when you know something's good but it kicks it up to 30 seconds the thing about a trifle you can't just make it you're done you do have to like do your layers and then let the custard set yeah then go back and do the next layer and let that set but um I do think like whip in the cream with a bit of sugar and vanilla if you over whip it it's it's rough and if it's just wet that's right so getting that just soft peaks I think we call it yeah you remember there was a

time when obviously your grandmother taught it to your mum did your mum then teach it to you was there a moment where you started putting the trifle together yeah I think um I think I asked her for it like 15 years ago and then it ended up in the radio times or the times or something she's like I can't believe you printed it it's just my recipe I didn't ask her permission to print it it's it's similar as a comedian my parents are constantly worried that every time they say anything they're like you're not going to use that are you don't put that in your eyes yeah especially when you say so my dad used to do this thing where he's like no exactly it's full of stuff about his dad as well his mum doesn't really feature that much but uh his dad quite a bit yeah the first the first time I

did stand up on tv I did a story about my dad and I'd never done it before in the in the set but I panicked because on tv for the first time and I said his full name and job down the camera and the next day when he went in um and he was quite important they had it up on a big screen in the meeting room and they were all watching it and laughing oh so and he was really proud of his son yeah yeah his dad is weird so like I don't think it would have faced him at all he's a weird guy yeah and you wouldn't know it what does he do I mean Ed's got you can still see a little glimmer in it he was a solicitor uh and now he's retired um and I believe this episode is coming out the day before my wedding so you will be if my dad listened to this yeah then you will be seeing

him the day after it's come out so yeah but that's fine I'm happily telling me he's weird a weirdo to his face and what what's the weirdest part of him is it the seed which he invites him out to his cat's vet and pretends to be the cat yeah and refuses to ever break character or let on that it's not the cat yeah um he uh I mean that's persistent that's quite funny yeah oh it's it's relationship with his dad is they bond over food quite nicely so there's a thing where you know Ed will sometimes you know I'm on a whatsapp group with my dad called the barbecue boys yeah nice nice yeah yeah and Ed will send him photos of stuff he's about to cook and then his dad will ring him and go I coached that one's Ed and then here's what I did and that's quite nice so you know

there's uh there's loads of nice stuff just you know also my main impression of Ed's dad really comes from Ed's impression of him in his stand-up yes so in my mind Ed's dad is always speaking like that yeah like it like he's announced I dial it up a bit yeah yeah of course but there's it's yeah I mean it's I remember doing a sometimes you do throw if you're in the public car you do throw your parents under the bus yeah yeah I remember shooting um a recipe in south end south end pier in the background mum dad and nan on deck chairs behind me about 10 meters away and I had a fire going and I was cooking this dish and I sort of said what I was doing and where I was and I said and within our family like it's known that I was conceived either in a capri

or at the end of south end pier and so I said look we're here since south end this is south end pier the longest pleasure pier in the world and I was actually conceived at the end of that and my mum's going no no I wasn't and I just kept it at the camera and went I was mum denies it all I'll say is you'll know the truth just by the reaction of my dad's face but it's like um it's I remember getting a real rollicking from my sister yeah saying it's really you've just really embarrassed me like I'm gonna read your menu back to you now and see what you think Jamie okay how you feel about it um water you would like cold still water with a hangover that disappears at the first sip yes poppins of bread

all kinds of poppidoms plus the dips starters avocado prawn cocktail and you'd like to not remember avocados and then eat it and then be introduced to avocados again main course a curry feast night crab curry chicken curry paneer curry side dish of naan and pirata the drink you would like a single malt scotch whiskey triple shot with an ice cube this is like 52 percent there's a fire on that's after the beers with the curry yeah you can have the beers with the curry absolutely will let you have you know posh and slag and all those beers yeah and dessert you would like mums slash naans trifle yes that sounds very nice you feel good hearing that back I I I mean I was going to say something pretentious like it doesn't flow as a recipe but it actually sounds

like a wicked night out yeah yeah that's what we found doing these podcasts is that I don't think anyone's dream meals flow necessarily no they just have all their favorite little snapshots yeah yeah it would be nice to have that dinner over five hours I think yeah I want to rush that one no you got the whiskey by the fire yeah that's got to be an hour right if you're there before your dessert having the whiskey by the fire doing all that and then you have a trifle yeah that's great yeah that meal sounds absolutely delicious um I that was all right I mean it was great like I kind of feel like reenacting it but um we did get some I am surprised that I'm the first person to give you like nibbles and a drink so maybe do you think it might set the tone for future guests

other guests might who knows but like you know it is effort I mean it's a little bit of effort wouldn't go amiss really but no one will do it for the poppidoms crossings if they're like oh Jamie Oliver came on and gave me five types of poppidoms I can't I can't compete with that I think people need to get creative they need to come with something like yeah cooler box of treats yeah little box of treats hey we're not we're not just going to yeah I don't think so it's nice I think you set the new standard wouldn't be good yeah although you know I'm the genie in this dream restaurant who brings you anything and now I feel like you've performed my very eyes transformed into a genie and I've given me food Jamie's going to be sucked into the lamp now and it's the new

genie do you want to come into the lamp with me Jamie I'm about to go back into the lamp do you want to be sucked into the lamp I'll come with you come on in Oh great menu from Jamie Oliver there great menu great journey the whole time you know like loads of things that we learned about different periods of time in his life in his career now family great chat loved meeting Jamie really enjoyed it to the listener have you ever tried to conduct an interview with a plate of absolutely delicious popcorn sat in front of you but not wanting to eat them because it would be too crunchy they're so crunchy but you know I had to really balance out well it'd be too crunchy might you know ruin the audio a bit also I like winding

up bonito and I like it when he's stressed so you think if I just crunched all these and just ate them for the whole podcast you have a nightmare on his hands god they're so delicious we're gonna take some home yeah we're taking some home in the box each and let that be a lesson to you future guests yeah if you don't provide us with a delicious cocktail and a platter of poppadoms or other snacks yeah then you can get out of here yeah maybe we'll kick you out regardless of whether you say the secret ingredient or not which Jamie did not say the secret ingredient since so turkey twizzlers thank you Jamie imagine if you brought in a big old steaming plate of turkey twizzlers if this was the podcast he chose to do it yeah ha ha guess what I love him I never hated him

I've always loved him and we'd have to go we're kicking you out of that oh what oh no very very glad he didn't say it because that was a wonderful chat thank you very much to Jamie for coming on um and Jamie's new book together is out now um we've got a copy here James we've got a copy each which is lovely I'm absolutely gonna every page I flicked to I'm excited about what's on there yeah so uh I will be genuinely doing some cooking yeah once once I'm married yes you will get married soon to that uh to your french teacher my french teacher so thank you very much to Jamie um I'm on tour as well you are on tour actually in feb feb 22 electric feb till April yeah go and check out my tour dates edgambal.co.uk

yes tickets available and I'll be teching that show yes hello Jamie hello oh you got some sacks pants he bought in some sacks boxer shorts literally no you have to look this is the tm yeah so having a little look inside that's ballpark technology oh so you tuck them in the little park oh that is literally a little pouch for your balls that's it there Jamie I was going to reach in and have a look closer and then I realized they are genuinely your pants aren't they that you just taken them off in the toilets and then bought them back in the shower it's hanging out there like Bruce Springsteen hanging out

in your jeans your boxes no one will know they look amazing no I'm going to check them out yeah they cradle them the cradle thank you Jamie see you Jamie well very rarely do we get a reprise from the guest during the outro I think that's the first time that's ever happened let alone they come in and show us some boxer shorts they were possibly may or may not have been wearing earlier in the day and show us where the balls go in the boxer shorts but it's happened and if at the start of this crazy journey known as off menu someone had told us one of the episodes one of the guests will leave to go and do an interview respectfully for the one show but then reappear during the outro to show you

their boxer shorts and where the balls go in it I would not have thought well that will be Jamie Oliver but that's what's just happened to us in our life and special yes very special moment for us there I was genuinely about to reach in and touch them yep you were about to touch where the balls go to see oh where have they go and then you realize as you're about to do it they've just been there that yeah the balls have literally just been there I was gonna I was gonna reach in and touch the pants yeah because he had the pants he didn't come in pull his trousers down I just didn't want to make it to the list yeah the box in his hand he didn't come in pull his trousers down and go have a look at the ballpark technology look at where they go yeah okay he came in

holding some boxer shorts yeah but his trousers up yeah trousers up zipped up done I'm presuming he has other boxes on the premises yeah he was holding a pair of boxes yeah said look at these came round opened the boxes up so we could look inside the boxes and you can see that there was a little compartment for the balls there I didn't realize I didn't think about this yeah maybe people isn't at home for he came in pulled down his trousers said look at these then look at where the balls go and Ed was at one point tempted to reach in and touch them yeah because that that isn't what happened no that sounds bad well it sounds unusual for the pod you know it's not not standard pod practice but um yeah I forgot that the listener can't see what's happening

so they may have thought that James Oliver just came sorry about that sound I'm reaching in and scratching my balls yeah that was Ed scratching his balls just scratching them a bit dry today crackly balls a little bit dry oh this is what what an episode it's been didn't think it would end this way these are the kind of episode I'll get a lot of texts from my mother about yes some people don't make it to the outro with podcasts night so they're going to miss out on that people miss out this is like you know an MCU and you know end of credits kind of thing yes it is and credits single and people some people go oh yeah and the bit about the bit when he came in and showed them the compartment where the balls go and everyone will be like what what the hell or the fair weather

listeners what what are you talking about it's like yeah you don't listen to the end there's a little bit at the end if you stuck around you listen to all the post credits after that James Oliver reenters the room he takes out of his pocket a pair of packs boxes sacks boxes sorry s a double x sacks boxes I know they're sacks boxes because they made a great joke earlier in the episode and only bonito heard it what was it well both of you and jayme spoke over it yes I was saying does he bring new mail employees in and tell them they're going to get the sacks oh I did hear that yeah well you didn't laugh in my head beneath yeah Benito laughed yeah that's who I'm that's who I'm aiming at anyway give them the sacks right

let's pop off shall we we may as well go well then you know I feel like if we sit him and talk for longer he'll come back in and with something that'll be other stuff you know be ashamed to miss that but uh yeah I'm having some more of this chutney yeah you can eat some more of that chutney on the pop-a-dom um everyone else you know we'll see you on the next pod-o-cast-a-lar hello I'm luce andes and if you've enjoyed this podcast you might like my podcast cuddle club it's about cuddling yes but really it's just a way into relationships and asking cheeky questions like who is your mum's favourite and uh when we last unfaithful previous guests include Alan Davis, Ashtonine B, Catherine Mayan, Rich Dozman, Ed Gamble, Nish Kumar

and other legends get it on a-cast, apple podcast, Spotify or wherever you get your all podcast and remember to sissy everybody and if sissy stands for cuddle club hello it's me Amy Glendale you might remember me from the best ever episode of off menu where sports took me mum and asked her about seaweed on uh mashed potato and our relationship's never been the same since and I am joined by me Ian Smith I would probably go bread I'm not gonna spoil it in case get him on James and Ed but we're here sneaking in to your podcast experience to tell you about a new podcast that we're doing it's called northern news it's about all the new stories that we've missed out from the north because look we're two northerners sure but we've been

living in London for a long time the new stories are funny quite a lot of them crimes it's all kicking off and that's a new podcast called northern news we'd love you to listen to maybe we'll get my mum on get Glendale's mum on every episode that's not the news when's it out Ian it's already out now Amy is it yeah get listening there's probably a backlog you've left it so late