Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 128: Miquita Oliver

Episode Date: November 10, 2021

Like mother like daughter? TV presenter and broadcaster Miquita Oliver has a table booked this week. Hope the restaurant has enough clean vessels.Miquita presents the Times wine podcast ‘Wine Times���. Listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify,Recorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography and design) and Amy Browne (illustrations).Follow Off Menu on Twitter and Instagram: @offmenuofficial.And go to our website www.offmenupodcast.co.uk for a list of restaurants recommended on the show.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, listeners of the Off Menu podcast. It is Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu podcast. I have a very exciting announcement. I have written my first ever book. I am absolutely over the moon to announce this. I'm very, very proud of it. Of course, what else could I write a book about? But food. My book is all about food. My life in food. How greedy I am. What a greedy little boy I was. What a greedy adult I am. I think it's very funny. I'm very proud of it. The book is called Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy. And it's coming out this October, but it is available to pre-order now, wherever you pre-order books from. And if you like my signature, I've done some signed copies,

which are exclusively available from Waterstones. But go and pre-order your copy of Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy, now. Please? Welcome to the Off Menu podcast, taking the Coco Pops of Conversation, pouring over the cold milk of humor. And, oh, God. Oh, yes! I thought it's nearly there. Is it going to bring this home? Turn in the milk chocolatey? No, I was about to say, I should have said turn in the milk chocolatey, but then I was like, oh, no. I was about to say, listen to the snap, crackle, and pop. Imagine if I said that. Much better to just pull out of it halfway through, I think.

There's more rice crisps, isn't it, the snap, crackle, and pop of Conversation? So, like, I guess you want to turn the milk chocolatey. I should have taken the rice crisps of Conversation, pouring over the cold milk of humor, and listened to the snap, crackle, and pop of the podcast or something. I hadn't even thought that bit through. So, I mean, a lot of podcast hosts would do another take, but that's not happening today, unfortunately. I think it's really funny to have it like that. I think give the listeners the reality of it, which is, you know, which is a man just going, oh, God. I love it. And also just another peek behind the curtain. We have just had to do another intro for another

episode. So, I struggled to come up with those anyway, but two in a row. And the last one was quite good. So, two in a row is an absolute nightmare. We'll leave this one to the listener to finish. You can tweet, add off menu official, but it's taken the cocoa pops of Conversation, pouring over the cold milk of humor, and then you got to finish it. And then, oh, God, is where I got to. You, the listener, can finish it, tweet it at the great Benito, say, hey there, Mr. Benito, I've got an intro for you, and then you have to put the full intro. Yeah, just the off menu podcast where we are in a dream restaurant, and we invite a guest in, and they choose their favorite ever, start

a main course, dessert, side dish, and drink, not in that order. And this week, I guess, is Makita Oliver, wonderful presenter, broadcaster, writer, all of those things. She's brilliant. A lot of people may remember her from Pop World. She's very much part of the fabric of our TV growing up, James. Absolutely. Big deal for us having Makita Oliver on the podcast. Even bigger a deal, because we've had her mother, Andy Oliver, the wonderful chef and TV presenter, and loads more, on the pod. We have. We know Andy's menu. We talked a bit about Makita in that episode as well, and their show, What's for Dinner, Mummy? What's for Dinner, Mummy? Yes. And it's actually, James, it's our second parent-child crossover

pod. In as many weeks. We've had the spalls, and now we've had the Oliver's. So I'm looking forward to hearing what Makita picks. Of course, she's from a great food dynasty from Andy Oliver. Andy runs a Caribbean restaurant called Badadli. So, you know, I'm looking forward to hearing what gets selected, what delicious things we can hear from Makita. It's actually our third parent-child episode, Ed, should point out. Not second. Yes. A lot of people don't know this, but Joel Domit is Mike Skinner's son. I never would have thunk it. Yeah, I can see it now you've said it, actually. Yeah, it is obvious now you've said that. That makes a lot of sense. If you listen to Joel's links on The

Masked Singer, some of them have got that quality of the streets. Yeah, you can tell. He's growing up in that environment. I do want to get Joel back on just to plug the love trap. Oh, man. If you haven't seen the love trap, you've got to watch it, or at least watch the opening montage of the first episode that tells you all the rules and what the show is. Yeah. If you don't laugh at that, you're dead inside. I'll tell you what they do. When they knock someone out of the dating thing, they drop them through a trap door. Yeah. But we're not here to talk about the love trap. We are here to chat to the wonderful Makita Oliver. Makita herself presents a wine podcast called Wine Times, which is the Times

Wine Club podcast with Will Lyons, who's a wonderful wine expert. And I was on the first ever episode of that, James, so I'd hardly recommend going to check that out if you enjoy fun chats and nice wine. But we will be dropping Makita through the fucking floor if she says a secret ingredient, James. Yes, every week I have a secret ingredient that we've deemed to be unpalatable. And if the guest chooses it, we kick him out the dream restaurant. And this week, cheeky little callback to Andy Oliver's episode, because she mentioned something. So we might be being a bit naughty here. So maybe Makita will choose it. This week, the secret ingredient is a chicken's arse. A chicken's arse. Now, I think we're talking about the persons

and those, which I actually quite like. I always gravitate to the arse. But if Makita picks the chicken arse, trap doors open, through she goes. Yep. Sorry, Makita. And, you know, it will be out of order of us if it happens, because we know that her mother loves the chicken's arse and her grandmother loves the chicken's arse. Yeah. Well, let's find out. This is the off-menu of Makita. Makita Oliver. Welcome Makita to the dream restaurant. Thank you. Thank you so much. Welcome Makita Oliver to the dream restaurant. We've been expecting you for some time. This is James the Genie. Makita, you let us know beforehand, you weren't quite sure what goes on in this podcast. So

I like to explain up top that James is a Genie waiter and he can bring you whatever you want from wherever in the world and from any time. Oh, because I heard him say Genie on my Mum's episode and I was like, what is he on about? I get it now. I get it. Okay. So you bring the magic as it were. Yep, always. Okay. No one's really clear on what Ed brings. No, that's true. Structure. I think structure and quite often for some guests, I have to explain to them what James is doing and what he means. I'm basically here to translate. He's basically like a little pet alien. Right, that you have to sort of describe and explain to people. Yes, exactly. I mean, I know James's work. So yeah, I feel like you might be on the right wavelength, Makita. I think you will understand

him. I see James as a rogue individual. Yes, that's fair. What of my work have you seen? Well, one time, have you ever supported Simon Amstor? No, I've been on bills with him. Maybe a bill with him. I went to see something that he was doing and you were doing it as well. And I was like, it's funny. But it was a while ago and you weren't famous yet. If you thought he was funny, that wouldn't have been James. You've got the wrong person there. I would have been telling the audience they weren't good enough for me and then storming off. Yeah, but that's funny shit. Yeah, funny and doing that. That's funny. What did you think of your mum's episode? You said you listened to it.

Did you think she made good choices? Listen, we don't enjoy the same food. Really? No, no, no. Actually, to be fair, something on my menu is exactly the same, but we don't we don't actually enjoy the same food because I because she's so chefy. I like everything really plain. I feel that she just is always a bit too rich for you too many ingredients on my cart. We just have a gravy like plain food. But I think it's the I think it's the Scottish in me. So you feel like the Scottish is winning out in this in this battle of food cultures? Because I grew up with her and not my dad. So it's like, I was yearning for mints and tatties and she was just taking it to different levels. Terrible. Having a chef as a parent for me isn't

as like, wonderful as people would think because I'd rather start I'd rather my mom was someone who owned a calf that I'd be into that. But then do you think you might be like wanting more extravagant things? If you're my only cafe, you're getting given calf food all the time. I love calf food. I would say it's probably one of my greatest restaurants because I just love that you can get hot dinners, breakfast and then like puddings. That's my kind of menu. So do you like the decor of a calf because obviously we're creating your dream restaurant. Do you want it to have the look of a calf? Yeah, absolutely. There was a calf called the Shepardess on Old Street on the corner and it was like sort of green and white tiled.

So you know, really good old school calf almost. It's like a pyromash shop. So I'd like a calf to look like a calf, but not like one of those dirty ones where you think the kitchen is actually disgusting. Just like, you know, like an old school calf. Yeah, like I used to like school dinners as well. I'm into that plain shit. You want the plastic calf chairs? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've learned to be in a cafe in a comfortable chair. That would be completely wrong, wouldn't it? I think it's such a horrible waste that you grew up with a chef parent and you like plain stuff. I'm so jealous that you got to grow up with Andy. What a wonderful chef and you're just there going, I want mints and tatties. It's absolutely a disgrace to Makita.

I know. I know. She hates it. She absolutely hates it. But I have to say my childhood, my mum did, you know, adhere to my tastes more because there was less sheffing to be done. There was more cooking for the child to be done. She would make a banging meatloaf, great meatloaf. She kept it quite plain, not too spicy or anything. Good, great mushroom gravy. My mum makes the most amazing gravy when she just keeps it simple. Am I really cussing my mum out? No, no, not at all. Is that so? We really hope for the meatloaf and gravy when you ask the question, what's for dinner, mummy? Oh, yeah. Woo! What's for dinner, mummy? God, you really, uh, uh,

shout all over what's for dinner, mummy, in my mum's head. I was like, how have they turned into this weird, creepy thing? Well, well, sounds creepy. It does sound quite creepy. Is it the mummy or mum? Yes. I agree. And that's why I was like, let's not call it this. And she was like, no, I like it. Ed was a very little, is a precocious little boy when it came to food. So I imagine Ed, when he was little, would have loved Andy Oliver as his mum. Like, maybe the two of you were switched at birth, maybe? Yeah, because I bet your mum made great pies and sort of shepherd's pie. I love shepherd's pie. She did. Yeah, she does make a really good shepherd's pie, actually. Bang us in mash. See what I'm talking about? I know your life and I want it,

and you can have this. Yeah, fine deal. I would also like to say that I enjoy my mum's food very much as well. But I'd happily maybe come over every other night to ask what's the dinner mummy at the Oliver's house? You know, I really should say the same. I would also like to say I really like my mum's food. I just, I like it simple. I like it plain. It's an interesting thing to say up top in a food podcast that you like plain food. So now we're staring down the barrel of a very long episode. I'm still quite specific about certain things. It's not just any old plain food. It's got to be. Colours are really important to me. I need sauce with most things I eat. Don't worry, this is going to be deeply interesting. We're not worried, but this is the only menu where,

right at the top, I can comfortably say this is the worst menu we've ever had. We normally start by asking you about water and stuff, but I don't want to preempt your dessert. Oh my God. Have I still got time to jazz it off of it? No, it wouldn't be the truth. I have to tell the truth. Follow your heart. In that case, we start with still all sparkling water. I'm guessing because you're a plainer. Such a boring bitch. Imagine if I phrased it like that. Imagine because you're such a boring bitch. You're going to go for water. I'm going to have a glass of still water, James. Why do you prefer that over the sparkling? We have a lot of Swedish family and they love sparkling water and Mum and I have just always

like really, really cold still water. I don't like sparkling water. It always tastes a bit iffy, like it wasn't meant to be fizzy. Yeah, that's fair. I don't really trust it. You think sparkling water was like a mistake, like a sort of freak science happening? I drink a lot of water and it doesn't feel like it does the same things. It just feels like it's off fizzy water. I always thought in my 30s, when I grew up, I'd be someone who has one of those green, just someone that was like, I've got a bottle of sparkling water on me, but I never became that person. On you, you wanted to be someone so posh that you had a sparkling bottle of water on you at all times. Yeah, like in my gym bag. I was like 12, thinking what it would be like to be

an adult. That's what I thought it would be like. Is there a particular brand of still water that you prefer or do you just want it out of the tap? No, I hate tap water. Yeah, what I've got, James, is a Brita water filter from Argos for a tenner, which is the best tenner I ever spent, and you just refill it all day and you've just always got nice filtered water. It does taste better. It does. You're meant to drink three litres of water a day, right? That's a lot of water, so it might as well be the good stuff. How much do you think you get through James on your eggs? Not enough. Not enough. I know that my colleague Ed Gamble has like a proper massive flask that has it measured down the side about how much he's got. Yeah, I think you brought that to the podcast

I did with you when you came on my podcast, which was about wine, but you still brought that water, so it's quite commitment. Yeah, well, you've got to stay hydrated, right? You've got to stay hydrated. I actually very rarely use this now. I think this only has, this has a bit of liters measured on there. Sometimes I hit my water and sometimes I don't, and I really feel it. I run out of energy halfway through the day if I'm not drinking enough water. Get one of those Brita water filters because it's just in your fridge, so you've just always thought, oh, nice cold filtered glass. What makes you want to drink it more? Like, you know what? I can't stand people that drink the wrong drinks out of the wrong cups. Go on. Like, on a reel. Like Coca-Cola out of a mug.

Oh, yeah. I completely get that. Why would you do that? Right? It just reminds me of like the end of a bad party. It doesn't taste right. It doesn't taste right. I don't water in a mug. I'm kind of into water in a mug. I don't mind water in a mug. I get it. Okay, let's run a bunch of things by you. See how you feel about them. Milk shaking a shot glass? Yes. You would like that. Yeah, because that's just a quick shot of milkshake in a milkshake because there's always too much, isn't there? Soup in a martini glass. Cosfattio, yes. Oh, that's interesting, but not hot soup. No. Vessels are important to me. Vessels and colours are important to you so far. We've got that. Does that make me more interesting yet? No, obviously, I'm just really hoping that

we're just trying to get anything to make you interesting. Anything out of this. Would you like Mountain Dew out of one of those little plastic kind of balls that you put washing detergent in before you put it in the washing machine? I mean, obviously not. Before you finish that sentence, James, no. Let me stop you there. No fucking way. It's clean. It's not had washing detergent in it yet. Yeah, but it's the visual connotations, isn't it? It's like this used to have soap in it. About just to end my vessel chat. See, this is my tea, right? And I don't think I could live without this thing. That's like a little flask. Yeah. A metal flask with a blue finish on the outside. But it's the soup one,

and I drink tea out of it. Ah, so that's going against your rules. A hypocrite. We've got ourselves a hypocrite. A bullshitting hypocrite. No. It's because I just know better than them, and I want that much tea. Right. That's fair enough. You want a soup's worth of tea each time. Yeah. What kind of tea is that? Oh, no, I'm going to say I'm right, Jazzy. It's fresh hibiscus. I don't know if you can see. It's very red. It is very red. My friend Phoebe gave me these hibiscus flowers. I've actually got it together to start drinking it as tea every day. Amazing. I look after myself, guys. Just a bit. And these shitties things, they're fucked up. They keep everything so hot. Like I used to go

to Leeds last year to film this show. Sorry, this year. Beginning this year, Channel 4 moved to Leeds. So I had to go there once a week, and I would fill this, but I woke up in Leeds the next day. It was still boiling hot. What? And I was like, that's design. You sure someone hadn't just filled it up while you were asleep for you? No, I don't have staff filling up my tea while I sleep. Yeah, if it was a really nice hotel, they might have done that. It wasn't. No. Pop it up, it's all bread. Pop it up, it's all bread, Makita Oliver. Pop it up, it's all bread. Oh, my God. Pop it on. No, because I don't like mixing cuisines, and that won't go with the rest of my meal. Does it have to go with the rest of my meal? No, it's actually your dream meal,

whatever you want. Then I'd have that really nice, nutty, warm, brown bread that comes in like really quite nice restaurants with their like homemade butter. That's always good. Nutty brown bread. Yeah, you know, that's like really lovely crispy on the outside, and then sort of soft, and you get it in hunks. Maybe this was just a growing up in West London thing, but that's like how a bread came at restaurants. Yeah, hunks of bread, and the butter is homemade butter. If it's fancy enough. Can you tell when you're looking at it that it's homemade? No way. But you can taste it. Oh, God, yeah. Have you ever had homemade butter? I think so. These restaurants. I guess so. Yeah, you've been to restaurants.

Been some places. I guess all butters homemade in a way just depends what you think of as a home. Well, quite. I don't think they had cows in the back, but there was, I don't know what homemade in the restaurant means actually. Whipped themselves. Yeah, it's not made in a factory. How do you make butter? You just like shake some milk for ages. That's an idea. That's my mom has that answer. I don't believe that you don't. Surely you'd pick up some things as you're growing up with with Andy. Yeah, yeah, like I can cook. And it's because of my mom. I'm good. Like timing is everything and instinct and trusting your gut and all that. And also taught me to cook visually with color and vessels and vessels. You drop two mice into

a bowl of cream and one of those mice just drowned, but the other one kept on paddling and churned that cream into butter and then walked out. What is the question? Do you eat the cream? That's how butter's made. What are you on about, mate? Not mice. That is disgusting. In the film, catch me if you can. Christopher Walken tells that story and it's inspiring. I mean, it got a different reaction when he told it to what I just got just now. No. No, but you're right. He does tell that weird story because I like that film. But I always thought it was a metaphor about something else. Yeah, working hard and stuff. That mouse just kept on paddling until it churned.

You make butter by sticking it up your ass. Who says that? Christopher Walken. He says that he was in the war and he escaped with the milk up his ass. And when it came out, it was butter. Your father kept his butter up his ass. I get the butter up my ass. You have seen the film, then. I think so. Well, Ed is now, quote, in Pulp Fiction. Ed is cross-pollinating it. Ed's gone over into Pulp Fiction when he delivers the watch. It's incredible that Christopher Walken has two butter stories. Two different films. That's what threw me. Well, it should point out that in Pulp Fiction, it's a watch that he keeps up his ass. It isn't a stick of butter. He doesn't go to the little boy and delivers him a stick of

butter. He goes, this butter's your birthright. Your dad was going to be damned. I mean, Christopher Walken is possibly the most impersonated actor of all time, and neither me or James can do a good one. I think we're doing pretty well. No, no, no, no, no. Because when someone goes Christopher Walken right, it's good. Yeah, it's really good. That wasn't what just happened. I'm his ass. The infractions are good. Yeah, he goes up. He definitely goes up. So your butter, just to be clear, you want it churned by my son kept up Christopher Walken's ass? Correct. Is that what you said? I made. Correct. Correct. It's the only way I take it. Your starter, what we're thinking here, plain, I'm guessing. Okay, so it was going to be

just a really good salad. Oh my God. Because hang on. Don't leave me yet, guys. Leaves are really important to me. It's not just like any old shit. And I wouldn't ever eat iceberg lettuce. I really like green, verdant leaves. And they would have to be things like radicchio, parsley, dandelion greens, watercress, sorrel. It's a very beautiful salad. But on the side would be our family oysters. And unfortunately, that was my mom's starter, but they are just so life changing. And it's such a joy to share them with people. You did mom's episode quite a while ago and you both went, yeah, we'll definitely do that, getting the ingredients. Now, has anyone had these oysters since my mom's episode? No, we were lying. You were lying. Your mother's a very nice lady,

and I didn't want to hurt her feelings, but I can't remember a single word she said. Well, that's good that I'm repeating her starter then. But it is just oysters with hot sauce, shallot vinegar, and then the piece de resistance shot a champagne. And it is just, it runs through you and it's just like, do and you're ready to party, eat, chat. It's a right old livener before a meal. And I think if you still haven't done it, we're getting close to Christmas now. Get your shit together. It will change your Christmas. Well, I'll say it again. I'm going to try it. Yeah, I'm going to get all the stuff. I'm going to try that. And we'll have another member of your family on in a year and we still won't have done it.

If you don't want your life to be more exciting, that's fine, but don't you? No, I do. I do genuinely want to try it, but it's just very rare that I organise myself in such a way that I've got oysters and champagne knocking about the house. That's very good fun. Christmas? Christmas, maybe. Yeah, you can probably sort it out. This is Ed's first Christmas as a married man. Yes. Oh, well, that's a cause for celebration. That is a sexy thing to do with the wife. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Oysters, they're like every easy act. And then there's champagne in them. I mean, it's a great time. It really is a great time. But you've also set this at Christmas where you talk about visiting family members. And I don't think with the rest of my family,

I should announce something as a sexy thing to do with my wife. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So guys, I've gathered you all here this Christmas, my extended family, to watch me do something sexy with my new wife. Well, you know, keep it between you two on Christmas date night. Yes. Yeah. Now, wife, are you ready to do something sexy? I learned something from the Oliver family. Yeah. Yeah. This sounds great. What are we doing? Yeah, because, you know, they have only just got married, but they've been together for a very, very long time. Oh, so you've got to keep it spicy. And so I think any tips, any tips like that are welcome at this point. Ed, is that right? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You can get bored of just normal oysters with no champagne in them.

Sometimes you've got to add champagne to the oyster. Well, coin. Yeah. Visit up a bit. Did we ask your mum, I can't remember if we asked her if this was called like Pawn Star Oysters or something like that, because that's what the cocktail's called, isn't it? It's not called Pawn Star Oysters. No. Isn't that a horrible name for a cocktail? Yeah. Yeah. It's also disgusting of Pawn Star Martini. Yeah. So it's all just, I'm just not into any of that. Also ordering in the bar, can I get a, I'm pleased. Yeah. Is there any dressing on this salad or is it just the leaves? I would never have an undressed salad. Well, you didn't mention a dressing, so, you know. Yeah. It would be one of my Swedish family's dressings, which again, quite simple. Yeah. But it's like

shallots, mustard, lemon, vinegar, really good, really good olive oil. I'm into very good produce, you know in MasterChef, when they always say that very irritating line, when someone makes something of it plain, they always say, there's no other way to hide. Yeah. And that is true with food that I like. You can't really, I don't know that because I'm into it being quite plain, though, so I don't really know. No, but I get what you mean. You want the quality of the ingredients to be as high as possible, so you get really good stuff. You can taste the quality in it, then you don't need all the extra stuff. Yeah. I said that, and then I was like, I love a calf sausage, which is neat. That's the opposite. Yeah. Opposite. There's loads of places to hide.

Yeah. You can hide in a calf sausage. You can hide. There's so many places to hide. There are so many disgusting things to hide from, but I do love a calf sausage. But so does my mum. There you go. You got her there. Do you want a sexy tip for a calf sausage? Yeah. Dip it in champagne. It's a sexy thing to do with your family at Christmas. Okay. Well, we all thought that was going somewhere way worse. Yeah. Oh, dear. This is going to have to be our first official apology to a guest after he says this. No, I wouldn't want to mix the worlds. I think I quite like fancy and then plain, which you'll see as we continue on my venue. The fancy bit was the oysters and the good salad. You don't like mixing high, brown, low, brown. We do that at home quite a lot.

We'll do a high, brown, low, brown night where we get packet noodles, like ramen noodles, and then do a duck breast and have them together. Oh, so you mix. You know what I was about to say? I didn't know this about Ed. They do high, brown, low, brown nights. When he said we do that at home, sometimes we do high, brown, low, brown, I was about to really slam his relationship and everything about him. Then he said the noodles with the duck breast, I thought, that sounds delicious. Once again, I'm wrong about Ed's life. It's pretty great. Also, it seems like you really enjoy those high, brown, low, brown nights. I love high, brown, low, brown night. Yeah. It's great. Maybe I should chill the fuck out and start mixing. Maybe next time you do the oysters, get the oysters high,

brown, instead of champagne. Fanta. Strong bow? Fanta. Strong bow is probably even more low, bro, to be fair, than fanta. Dream main course. From here on out, your men use nothing like your mums. You're sticking two fingers to your mum for this whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for raising me and feeding me so well, but she knows this about me. So, yeah, so we recently, for a job, did DNA tests? God, have you done them? No. No. Bit mind-blowing. I'm like 48% Scottish. My dad is, yeah, he's Scottish, but obviously really fucking Scottish. And it kind of brought a lot of clarity to this kind of food that I love, because it is just mints and tatis. Yeah. And I've always just gravitated towards that food. So,

I feel a little less, I kind of understand myself more now. I'm like, that's why I like all that stuff. So, I think I would have, I'm literally just have mints. Yeah. And then best mashed potatoes around. And then greens, peas are really important to me. I love peas more than any vegetable in the world. And then loads of really good gravy. And I'm done. I'm happy. It's your favourite meal. James is so disappointed in me. I mean, it is incredible, Makita. In this plate of food, I would need everything in its place. Like, the meat has to be there, the potatoes have to be there. I hate when people put gravy on potatoes. It has to, it will be in its section. God, I'm uptight. And when I got to the Caribbean,

I realised that they're quite like that. They're very, they like sort of weird shitty vegetables, like I do, like peas and sweet corn. And they like to have order and put the colour in one place. So maybe it's just, this is what the mix of Caribbean Scottish brings in. Mints and tatis. Mints and tatis. Feels more Scottish, that, really. Yeah. I'm not sure you can claim the Caribbean is that it's all separated. So wait, how funky do people usually get with their main? Oh, no, no. We're being unfair. Everyone always picks mints and tatis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I had this book that my dad gave me when I was a kid called The Bruins, and it was about a Scottish family, and they would eat dinner every night. And it was a colour book,

and I was obsessed with it. And the mints and tatis is what they ate. And I just love the way it looked in the colour. So maybe it's about me eating my childhood or something. I'm not sure. You said you wanted the best mash in the world. Want me to make it? Well... Mash King? Are you Mash King? James is the Mash King. I'm the Mash King. Are you actually? Can I make it for you? Yeah. Oh my God, that's so exciting. No, honestly, I'm not real, but what do you think is great mash? So back in the day, we'd boil a bunch of potatoes until they're almost fallen apart, put them in the massive pot, then our dumplings are like salt and pepper, cream, handfuls of cheese, and then I'd mash it

all for ages. Yeah, Steve, you've lost me. Why are we adding cheese? Tastes good. Why not? Because I need it to be clean and tasteless. We wouldn't make it cheesy mash. Right. I wouldn't add so much cheese that you taste the cheese in it. It just kind of really adds... Oh, that's sweet. It just adds to the kind of like... So the seasoning as cheese is the seasoning. No, no, no, I'm still like going pretty hardcore, but it's like it's so integrated in the flavor. You wouldn't even eat it and go, this is cheesy mash. It's just like so creamy, super creamy mash. Yeah, it does sound pretty great. My Irish auntie Tessa makes it really white with a lot of black pepper, but it tastes so creamy. I think French mashed potato can be a little bit too buttery, sometimes

a bit too yellow. I like it white and whipped, like whipped potatoes. I know what you mean, especially if you're having it with something like mince. You want that to, they sort of offset each other, but I love that French stuff. I think it's, is it alligottes? The stuff that's like half cheese, half potato, basically, and it's like wallpaper paste thickness. It's just like, it's so good. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I can't even explain that texture. Right. It's crazy. Oh my God, what restaurant used to have that? I think it was, um, Balans used to have that in Soho. I was there for very different reasons than other people. I was there for the potatoes. Eating mashed potato at four o'clock in the morning. Pretty much. While everyone else was, wasn't hungry for

some reason. Yeah, well, everyone else didn't fancy any food. I was like, the mashed potatoes here were really good. I went on a, um, in my, in my late twenties, it's a bit depressed, not really working. And I decided to get myself on a tour in West London of all the greatest places to get mashed potato or spaghetti bolognese. So hold on, in one day? No, no, no, like over a few months. If I, I wasn't doing much, James, and I was like, another afternoon off, I will go test the spaghetti bolognese in that amazing Italian cafe in Holland Park or that place in Notting Hill, or I'll go a bit posher today. And so I did a tour of mashed potatoes and spaghetti bolognese. It was great, but I got really fat. Have you pitched, have you pitched this as a travel show,

the mashed potato and spaghetti bolognese, uh, Odyssey? No, but there is something in, like, finding the perfect version of a dish. Definitely. Yes. That's a show. When was this, let me get my timeline sorted now. It's just pre or post-pop world. Post-pop world, yeah. So pop world, you've done pop world with Simon and now 15 to 21. 15 to 21, you did that. Yeah. 15, 15 when you started that. Yeah. Oh my God. I know, a little bit illegal, you think, but no. And then, um, T4, um, sort of 19 to 27. So this was, like, the year after. And I was a bit like, what am I going to do with my life? And I was like, well, I could just find the best spaghetti bolognese in the area. So. Are you having a breakdown? Yes. Could have been worse.

You've been, you've been on TV for over a decade since, since you were 15. You could, you could have just completely gone off the rails, but instead you ate loads of spaghetti bolognese and mashed potatoes. That's pretty fair. Thank you, James. That's good. Yeah. I think there was also some rail stuff as well, but that was my sort of daily vibe. That was my afternoons. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I dread to think what the evenings held then in that case. By the time it got around, it was like, oh, fuck. Well, you've lined your stomach already. I was ready. It wasn't, it wasn't a wonderful time, but I think I was looking for comfort. And that is where I find it in potatoes and pasta. And I think, yeah, your main course,

there's a lot of comfort to be had there as well. And I do, we're making, we're making fun of Mince and Tatties. It does sound delicious. I love Mince. My mum sent me a picture because she's, she was filming in Scotland the other day. And actually when they're, because I've never had Mince and Tatties, well, like Haggis and Tatties, I've never had that. And she sent me a picture and there's like loads of interesting, like look at that. Like there's a lot of sauce going on. Yeah. It's like a cream sauce, right? Right. To me, that's quite an interesting addition. So who knows what kind of sauce we'll have at this main course, but probably something creamy and mushroomy. Is there somewhere where you've had Mince and Tatties? It is the best Mince and Tatties

you've ever had and that you want for your dream meal? Or is it just a general, wherever it's from, it'll always be comforting and you don't mind where it's from? No, I remember when I first had it, I was like eight and my dad is scotting some weird house in like South London. And when you're young and when you're a kid and from West London, South London, I thought it was in a different country, I think. And I felt a bit scared and a bit like, where are we? And then he made me Mince and Tatties and I felt really loved and safe. Great. And he really knows how to make mashed potatoes. Oh, does he? So yeah, I didn't even really fucking think about that. Yeah, I think it is. It was like the first meal I had from him

and I was like, this is fucking great because it was nothing like the stuff mum made. So it's kind of, it's like comforting, warm. It makes you feel welcome. I'm getting on board with this Mince and Tatties thing. Oh, thanks. If you're into Mince, go to the quality chop house. I've never been. Oh, it's one of my favorite restaurants in London and they do do a dish, which they don't do it as regularly as they used to, but it's Mince on toast and it is just the best Mince you'll ever taste on a really nice bit of, I think sourdough or something like toast and a bit of like watercress with it. It's phenomenal. See, this is what I'm talking about, like meat, bittergreen, carb. That's my kind of restaurant quality chop house. Yeah.

I've never been to this chop house place. Where is it? It's in Clarkinwell. Oh, no, Farrington. Yeah, Farrington. Yeah. And it's opposite the Eagle, isn't it, which was like the first ever gastropub, which is bloody brilliant food, but a bit too rich for me, but too many flavors for me. Yeah, you're walking past that. Quality chop house was one of the, I think the first place I went back to after the big lockdown when restaurants were open, you could eat outside. And I sat outside there with my friend, Paul, and we had the biggest meal of all time. And the first thing I ate there, I was so excited to have restaurant food again. I genuinely got goosebumps. Fair enough. That's how excited I was. It was so good. Who the hell's Paul?

Paul Sweeney. Okay, yes. Who the hell? Great. Great story, Ed. Who the hell is Paul? Paul Sweeney is a dear friend, and mine and James' barber. Does James get a bit territorial with you? Yes. When it's someone I haven't heard of, yeah, absolutely. You have heard of him? Yeah, well, this is okay. But initially, when I was saying that, I was like, I can't even think who this could be. What is he on about? So do you think you know every single one of Ed's friends and would be quite perturbed not to recognise a name? Yeah. At Ed's wedding, I was satisfied that no one there was surprised to me. I knew them all. I knew who they were. That was fine. That was the main agenda of your wedding, right? James has got to know them.

When we sat down to do the guest list, we were like, the last thing we want on this day is to spook James. Yes. So there's a lot of people, actually, that we didn't invite because we were worried that James might freak out. Yeah. Good. I'm glad. Good. Paul could only come for the evening, unfortunately, because... Oh, that's nice. You invite your barber to your wedding. Yes. Lovely. He's also a friend, I would say. Friend before barber. Yeah. I'm not just inviting him a barber to my wedding. I wasn't running out of ideas so much that the guy cut my hair. I was like, well, you're busy next Thursday. Your dream side dish. Well, because you've already got the potatoes and stuff. So I think you can throw in whatever you like. Also, your tendency towards

plain stuff almost doesn't lend itself to science at all because that's over-complicating things, isn't it? Yeah. No, because I love cauliflower cheese. I'm just thinking, is that bit rich with the meat? Most people would say no. Not at all. Not even remotely. For everyone else in the world. The cauliflower cheese could make the meal too rich. Yeah. Yeah, but it's not a bird. It's mints. I'm imagining this meal being eaten in a prison. I don't know why. Yeah, we'll have some cauliflower cheese just to take it out of the prison setting and back into the cap. This would genuinely be my last meal in prison. Yeah. And you're first. And you know what? They wouldn't even need to nip out and do any shopping if you ask for this. Right, look, go and ask Makita what her last meal

is. Oh, she's just said, we've got it all in. We've got it all in the kitchen. It's already on the menu. Don't you have to change today's menu? That's what we were already going to serve. That's on the menu. Just give her a bit of dinner for our last meal. Our goal. So when we come onto my pudding, it's, God, I was not due to prison-y. I can't wait. That's the only time that's ever been said on this point. So it's going to be rice pudding or something? Yeah. No, don't pre-empt it. How can you not love a classic English pudding? And is it my fault that they want to give love and comfort to prisoners? That's true. Look, let's draw down into this. How well do you think you could do in prison, Makita? I'm really scared in prison. And I don't think I can last more than

an hour. We got ourselves a wimp. We got ourselves a wimp here, Ed. Was this question posed to my mother? No, we didn't get round to that. It's actually not been posed to anyone before. No one else has chosen prison food. I don't think I could handle prison for more than an hour, 20 minutes. What would your plan be? Say you're going to prison, right? For whatever reason, and you're on your way there now, and it's like for 10 years or something. Thank you. You've got to come up with a plan. Yeah. What's your plan to survive in prison? To be invaluable. So I'd like work in the kitchen because I'd love the food. So I'd work at the food. I'd work in the laundry room. I'd try and be a real doer because I am a real doer, which is why when I wasn't really working for the first time

in my life, it took myself on a spaghetti bolognese tour because I don't really know how to just sit still. And when I'm not doing, I get into a weird headspace and I would try and bring that doer to prison to survive. Yeah. That's good. I like that answer. That is good. Yeah. Oh, thank God, because that was quite the question. Have you ever been in a cell? I went to Dover Castle on a school trip and you get to go in the cells there. No, Ed. I mean, like, thrown in a cell for bad behavior. I was very naughty on the trip. Yeah, but not in a modern cell, no. I wouldn't like to. I wouldn't lie. I'm scared of prison as well. I like prison films and I like dramas in prison. Do you? See, I really don't. That's how much I don't like prison. I don't even really like to look at it.

Did you see that thing? Oh, you definitely didn't. Time, the Sean Bean Stephen Graham drama that was on recently. That does sound wonderful. It is wonderful, but if you're scared of prison, that will absolutely shit you up. There's a bit in it where there's someone who they think is a grass and what they do, wait for you to hear this, they boil up the kettle with loads of water in it and dump loads of sugar in it. So it's like boiling sugar water and then throw it on someone. It's absolutely horrifying. Because then it sticks to you, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I would beat up Stephen Graham. You would or you could? Both. Yeah, but I don't know why you would. He's like actually a really lovely guy. Made fun of Ramesh on Jonathan Ross. That's so sweet. Is that because you just

want to protect your friend? Yes. I think Stephen Graham could probably keep the shit out of you. Well, we'll see. Lovely guy, but like been through some stuff. James, what's your plan for prison? Okay, I would want to get through it without being hurt, but I mean, no, I probably would just sugar water everybody. Yeah, you become a massive point of, you know, attack. People come for you in prison and there's nowhere to go. No, people would be like, he's mad. Don't go near. Don't mess with him. Don't go with a sugar water guy because you'd be the only sugar water guy to throw it on people and then chug the rest. Yeah. That's true. My auntie did say that to me once. If you ever feel in danger, act crazy. That's what you're supposed to do, right? In prison,

you're supposed to go up to the biggest guy there as soon as you get in there and knock him out, right? I do a similar thing. I'm not very violent. I'd go up to the biggest guy there and I'd be like, anything you need, just come and ask me. Yeah. You come ask for me. Yeah. Anything you need, I'll look after you. You'll be all right. I'll look after you, mate. Yeah. I've got you. I'm Ed, by the way. Yeah. Lovely to meet you. I'm new here. Coalfire cheese is a side dish. Lovely. I was going to say, please, can we leave this meal alone now because I'm not even happy about having the cauliflower cheese. Like, it's getting too busy. You're not happy about that. You don't, well, you don't have to get into your dream meal. I don't want anyone to have their dream meal and

not feel happy about it. Okay. Do you know what? Then if I'm having cauliflower cheese, then I have to have carrots because I need that orange to deal with all the white and brown. Interesting. This is very interesting. You, cauliflower cheese is getting too busy. Now, I don't know why. So, I have prison initially, and now I'm imagining you as the, you know, the old lady character in Postman Pat. No. Mrs. Goldsons. I'm imagining you eating like a little old lady puppet. That sounds great. No, because I love dinners or meals in cartoons that are in English towns. It's a very Postman Pat. So, just like classic things that are eaten every day for tea around the country. So, I bet me and Mrs. what's the name? Goggins. Goggins would have a fucking right laugh.

It's like same menu. So, hold on. You said you like meals from cartoons in little English towns. Are there other examples of this? Yeah. Like Janet and Alan Alberg books. There was always like a pie on the side with steam coming out of it. And then if they ever were like outside, they're always like really lovely green round lettuces. Just like love a lettuce, but also a really lovely picture of one. You know, my favorite Janet and Alan Alberg book is burglar bill. And at the end, burglar bill goes to prison and has sugar water thrown on him. The dream drink. Oh, I love red wine. I love red wine. Me and Ed on the wine podcast. That was my first one. So, I was still learning to like only taste, not swallow. Yeah, it's hard.

It is really difficult. But now what happens is I finish the record, come home and I'm like, oh, let's have some wine. I've been tasting it for hours. But yeah, I would love to say I've learned loads. I think I have, but I just can't verbalize it. But I feel like I'm learning every time we do it. So what I have learned is that I like a very dark full body chestnutty wine, which is, as my lovely co-presenter has told me, a syrup. So I love a syrup. And I'd love a big old glass of red wine with that mints and tattoos meal. I really love doing your wine podcast. This bidding is very hard. It is. I'm dribbling down my chin. And then even if you're spitting, you're still getting a bit of wine in there. I was still like, I'm quite, I'm quite, I couldn't

drive. I find the spit in gross, unrefuse. It's disgusting. This is how you do it. You get a spit tune and you have to go. Disgusting. And there's no way to elegantly do it. I've been trying for weeks to, how do I do my spit? It is just not happening. But James, like people who are actually testing wines do have to spit. So like, I know someone who works at the Wine Society. He's a wine buyer. So he might be up at 10 in the morning and have to taste 40 wines. You're not going to. Yeah, you can't be pissed. You can't drink them. I would swallow them all. No, you wouldn't. Yes, I would. You'd be a dead man. 40 wines. I would swallow them all. Do you like wine then? No. No.

You do. Ed, you do. Yes. And so does James. We've shared many a lovely bottle of wine over the years. We have had nice. I don't drink it very often. In fact, I really only drink it when I'm around people like Ed, who know what the good stuff is. And then I'll just have a nice bottle of wine chosen by somebody who knows more about wine than I do. That's pretty much the only times I'll have it. So what, twice a week? Yeah, yeah. I'm over every night. He's calling me going, Ed, I need you to come over, man. I need you to come be my wine cover. I need it. I need it. Tell me what the good one is. And that makes it less prison-y. Prison-y that you're not going to get a glass of syrup. That's true. How big a glass are we talking? Are we talking a big glass that's only filled

up a little bit in like a posh way? The headphones have come off. The key is walked away. I can only assume you're going to get a glass, but if she just doesn't come back, that'll be funny. That's the question that's funny tip to guest over the edge. How big a glass? Really nice and big. Massive. Absolutely massive. Can you hold that next to your face, please? Because the perspective at the minute looks like it's the size. I mean, that is the size of your face. The face, but not your head. It's the size of your face, but not your head, I'd say. Now I'd have it to about half way. I don't like to full a glass, but that's why the glass is so big. Half your face of wine. So that's a big glass anyway, and you're filling it half up. That is

still quite, I'd say, that's probably more than 250. Okay, that's right. There, to the edge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's a good size. That's a bit more polite, isn't it? It's a bit more polite. Well, you know how I feel about a vessel? Yeah. I like this because it's big. You can do the rolling that Will's taught me. Swelling around, yeah. Your nose in there. And it feels just like a decadent thing, which kind of perks up a Tuesday evening. Yeah. And I notice, you know, you bought it here and it's completely clean. Of course, of course it's clean. Well, you might have bought it here and it was like, you clearly had it last night and not washed it up yet, you know, but like, I did have a glass in this year last night, but I got I'm becoming so uptight

with vessels that I've started to feel like every glass of wine has to be from a different glass. Oh, so okay, this vessel thing is fucking out of control. Yeah. Also, just using the term vessels all the time. Yeah. This shows how obsessed you are with it. So you will have a glass of wine in that. And then if you, if you choose to have a second glass of wine, you will want to change glasses. Yeah. Even if it's from the same bottle. Yeah, it's more about like, I don't, the glass then feels a bit grumpy. Right. Do you think it's because it feels like you're having your first glass again? Maybe. Can I first hit? Yeah. Maybe. No, it's not because of that. It's because you think it's dirty. You think you made it dirty with the same wine. I do. It was all in a bottle

together a minute ago. You put some of it in that clean glass and drank it. And now you don't want to put any more in there because then it's dirty. No, because then there's some up the sides from where you've drank. And so it just, it looks stained. Right. But like, you know, it probably stops you from having more than three glasses because I can't keep you changing glasses. But then you wash them all up that night. You wash them up. Yeah. If I stayed on this, I'd probably drink a bottle. You know what I mean? So probably tempers the evening. We can try and put that positive spin on it. When did this start? Well, that's only in about the last sort of four years. I think that's more since my parents have had establishments. So

every time you get a drink, you get a new glass. And we've spent a lot of time working in their establishments, filming in their establishments. So I kind of got to be used to service rather than just having a drink at home. Oh, so now when you're alone at home having a drink, you see yourself as your own waiter. As my own bar back. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's interesting. So basically, so if you have more than a few glasses of wine, someone would walk into your house and go, I didn't know you had people over last night, Makita. Just like loads of empty glasses everywhere. Yeah. I am constantly washing glasses. What do you think about this that I noticed about myself this week? And I think this would absolutely revolt you. I go to bed with a glass of water

on my bedside, might have a few sips of it during the night, wake up in the morning, finish the glass, then we'll often then top that glass up with more water and have a glass of water in the morning. So it's been there all night long with this water in it. Oh, I finished it in the morning and then with the same glass, I have a glass of water. No way. See this? That's a glass of water there you're holding like it's Simba. Yeah. And if it gets even a little bit, I probably change this like the glass of water I have all day working from home. I probably change this about four times a day. Wow. They have a new glass each time. Listen to this, Makita. Now and again, I'll have like a bottle of water next to my bed, like just a tap water. Sometimes I'll get into

bed if I'm a bit pissed or whatever, I'll be like, I need water in the middle of the night and I'll drink it. I don't even know how long that's been there for maybe even like a week, sweating, sweating in that plastic. Yeah. Does that even feel like a good thing when it hits the back of your throat? Feels like end of party water. I don't mind that. Now what are you drinking that water out of? I noticed that that's a wine glass. Oh, well, this is a ciderglass. Oh, that's all kinds of fucked up. A big ciderglass and I'm drinking water out of it. How about this, Makita? Sometimes I'll go down to the bottle bank in the car park and I'll stick my arm in there and I'll rummage around until I find a bottle and then I'll pull it out and I'll just drink the drinks of whatever was in there.

That's fine. That's looking after the planet. How about this, Makita? Sometimes if I'm thirsty, I just get a straw and I drink straight out of a puddle. Okay, no. How do you feel about that? Genuinely making me feel sick. How do you feel about this, Makita? Sometimes I'll hide in like a really posh person's bathroom and I'll wait until they go to the toilet and they're using the bidet and then as soon as they turn the bidet on, I just dart my head in between their butt and the bidet and I lap out of the bidet water. Yeah, that's totally fine. That's totally fine. I think that mirrors your existence. I think the way we consume water mirrors our lifestyles. Makita, how about this? Sometimes if I'm really thirsty when I'm out and about,

I just pay a stranger to spit in my mouth. How do you feel about that? Yeah, I think that all these sound like they make sense to who you are and where you're coming from. So I'll drink out my clean glass and you guys just fuck around with all your dirty stuff. Your dessert. For example, apple crumble, cold single cream. The crumble has to be hot and I like it to have sultanas in it and it have quite a lot of sauce and I like the crumble to not be too crumbly and almost like it to be a like dough like and then cold cream, but I would say probably a jug of cream to myself. I don't like running out of cream. I like a lot of cream and it has to be really cold and I prefer single. Maybe this much cream? No, two of these. Two wine glasses. Two face wine glasses full of cream.

Big time. And are you using all of that? Yeah, I'd like it to be a bowl of cream with the crumble in the middle, but it was really a bowl of cream with an addition. Right. Personally, that's too much cream, I'd say. No, no, no, no, no. Because I hate when it gets dry and it doesn't take many mouthfuls to run out of cream. If you're talking about cream that you get in a restaurant, you get enough for like three mouthfuls. Well, okay, I understand that. I asked for an extra jug often. Really? When went out. I would never have single cream with crumble anyway. Would you have custard? Ice cream. Ice cream on crumble. No? No. I need it to be gentler than that. Like a midsummer murders dessert, you know? What would they eat in the village hall? What the fuck is wrong with you?

I mean, this is... That is actually it. That's it. It's like, what would they eat in like the village where Miss Marvel is? And that's how I plan my meals. It's mad. How has this happened? This is in direct relation to having a fancy chef mum. Yeah, but your mum runs a car... Your mum runs a Caribbean restaurant. Exactly. And I'm sick of that chicken. It's beautiful. It's beautiful, but I've eaten it my whole life. Her food is incredible, but it really is and it makes people happy. And what she does with the sort of alchemy of her cooking, I think it's extraordinary. But when it comes to what I want to eat, I just want to eat pie and crumble and cream and gravy. I'll say that I would go custard first choice, then ice cream, then double cream,

then single cream, then squirt a cream bottom. If we're talking about apple crumble. Crème fraîche. Where are you putting crème fraîche? Oh, I'd put crème fraîche above double cream. Wow. I'd say the same, probably. I don't really like double creams, but too intense, obviously. Of course, yeah. From the women who said that she finds sparkling water too intense, that's not a surprise. Can I just say, in every other area of my life, I'm funky as hell. I can dance. I can talk to people, but when it comes to my food, it's, yeah, I'm a boring bitch. No one who is funky as hell has ever said, I'm funky as hell. No. I've never had to profess it in such retaliation before, but I was like, I should probably let them know that I am actually a cool motherfucker.

Yeah. This is just what I like to eat. So you've got that amount of cream. Are you having it like you take a spoonful of crumble and then you put the cream on each spoonful? Yes, I do do that, actually. I do do that. So there's the bowl of cream, the apple crumble, and then spoon, and then, yeah, little jug. Yes, every mouthful's got a bit. Yeah, that's not that. That's a bit new. I haven't been doing that in the last few years. You know what, for me, saves this dessert, because apple crumble's nice anyway. I wouldn't have it with a single cream, but the sultanas and the apple crumble really make it for me. I think that's essential in an apple crumble. I definitely want that.

And not always there. No. Not always there. I think it takes out the school dinner frame, but then if you're talking about puddings in general, God, I used to love school dinner's puddings. I love just cake and custard from school dinners, and I love that sometimes it was chocolate cake with chocolate custard. That was good, but I imagine that your schools have better school dinners than me. I went to some pretty shitty schools. No, that sounds like my school school dinners. I actually had a packed lunch. My mom would do me a packed lunch, but when I was older, I worked in a school as a classroom assistant, and I would sometimes have because you'd be on lunch duty with the kids, and you'd have to have dinner with them because

they were autistic kids. So you had to like, if you were assigned a certain kid for the day, you had to go to have school dinners with him. And so it was like the first time in my life I was having school dinners was like when I was like in my mid 20s working in that school, and I would find myself not verbalizing it or saying it to any of the other teachers, but like thinking I'm really hope it's chocolate cake and chocolate custard. I'd be quite excited about it. You get into the rhythm of like, oh God, I wonder what it is today. I do love that. And I think that's because I never had, so you know some families are like Wednesdays, bangers, and mash Fridays, fish and chips. My mom was never like that. And I

really like structure and order. No shit. And when you're eating the apple crumble, every time you take a spoonful, do you have to then go and get a clean spoon for the next one? Good question. No. No. Yeah, but that's in your head now, right? I'm just thinking, can I give myself a bowl of around four teaspoons? Yeah, that's quite good. Four big spoons. That would be beautiful. That would be beautiful. And then every bite is your first bite. I think that is what it's about. It's like that first hit of something, and it's like trying to recreate that, but you can't really. I think he's got you there. That's going to be in your head now. Makita, if you start doing that, at that point, will you acknowledge that you've got a

problem? Yes, and only then. Yes, I will. So do we like my meal at all now? Well, I'll read it back to you. Okay. And let's see how we all feel about this. Yeah. Okay, we'll see how you feel about it. Makita, most of all, that's the most important thing. You're the one eating it. It's your dream meal. Okay. Water. You want still, bitter filtered water. Popped on some bread, nutty brown bread with butter. Starter. A really good salad with radicchio, parsley, watercress with the olive and family oysters. Main course. Minced and tatties with creamy, mushroomy sauce. Oh, yeah. Side dish of cauliflower, cheese, and carrots. Although, from what I gather, you can take or leave that. You'd rather it wasn't there. It's more important

about the peas. You want the peas to be with the main course as well. Yes. Drink, big glass of syrup, red wine. Yeah. Does a hot apple crumble with sultanas and a jug or two jugs of cold, single cream. Yeah. Yes. What party? It's not a party, though, is it, Makita? It's a wake, if it's a party. Do you know what it is? It's tea. Look, I do quite like the sound of this. I think I can imagine if it's cold outside, you know, as it is at the moment. It's exciting. Like food that loves you from within. And also, I just love the, I love the idea that there's probably in this country, five million other people having the same dinner as me. I just love that. I love that we have like five or 10 things that just in this country, you just would have

for dinner. Like bangs and masks for getting wallets, shepherd's pie, fish pie. Just like the classics. So when you're eating a meal like that, you like to think about all the other people eating it? I think I was brought up in a single-parent household with not much structure. So I liked telly and comfort food. I like things that made me feel connected to the country around me, not the world. This is actually quite Britain's Pacific. And that's why I always liked EastEnders because I loved that it was on at eight o'clock and I knew that everyone would sit down at eight and watch it with their tea. Did you like it when you would like, you know, present pop world same time every morning? Absolutely. Absolutely. There was definitely no coincidence

that the first job I had sort of marked the weekend. And then T4 really cemented it as like you are part of everyone's weekend. To this day, people still say like, you know, you would watch you growing up. I think there was a part of me that loved that, sort of inserting myself into the structure of the country and the rhythm of the country. And I know it sounds like we've gone off on a tangent, but that is, I know that's what I'm looking for when I go to the cafe. I make that kind of food at home or ask mum to make it for me. I think you might convince me, you know. Oh, look, we've given you a hard time, but genuinely, I can't really pick any faults with I would enjoy this meal. Absolutely. I would enjoy it. And it's been much worse menus on this podcast,

including Simon Amstel's. Simon hates food. Yes. Thank you. This is what we thought. This is what we suspected. Makita, thank you so much for coming to the Dream Restaurant. I think you've convinced us to the ways of Mints and Tatties. Not James. I'm one over. I would eat that. I've got bad news, Makita, for the end of the podcast. You're going to prison. Good luck. This is the twist of this episode. Yeah. We've got the police wagon waiting for you outside. I do one night in prison for this meal. Cool. All right. Which prison? Oh, God, probably one of the countryside ones. Yeah, gotta be right. Oh, yeah, for the view. For the view. Yeah. Thank you very much, Makita. Thank you. Thank you, Makita. It's been a pleasure.

Bye. Well, there we go. I think she convinced us, James, menu eyes. Sometimes it's nice to be one over and have your mind changed, isn't it? Yes, it is. Thank you, James. Would that be a lesson to everyone? And thank you very much to Makita as well for coming on the podcast. You were great. Makita's podcast, Wine Times, is a well worth a lesson. I myself have been on it, but lots of other guests have been on it as well and loads more still to come. So do go and check that out wherever you get your podcasts, James. Thank you, Makita, for not saying the secret ingredient as well. Chicken's arse. Yes, no chicken's arse, not the chicken's arse in sight.

Mention the roast chicken at one point. Mentioned the chicken. I thought... Yeah, I wish you were going round to the arse. Is there going to be a little reach around? But no. I'm on tour, James. Congrats. In February. I'm going all over the place. I've got a new stunt on the show called Electric. I'm very much enjoying putting it together, having a lot of fun, and can't wait to show it to everyone. EdGamble.co.uk for tickets. I should be coming to a town relatively near you. It's going to be great. Ed's been telling me loads of little bits and bobs from it, and it sounds very funny. Yeah, I'm a cop in it. I'm an undercover cop. What? What? I'm an undercover cop in it, James. But I don't mention it, unlike some undercover cops.

Yeah, so only you know. Yeah. But I would never, ever as an undercover cop say on stage that I'm an undercover cop, because then, what the fuck is the point of that character? Yeah, absolutely. And if you did do that, I think audience members would be well within their rights to shout out, not a very good one then, and stuff like that at you every now and again. Yeah. I'm thinking that they're being very funny. They would be well within their rights, and you would deserve it every time that happened. I don't think they're being funny in that situation, James. I would think that's very accurate. Well done. You've spotted a major, you've spotted a major flaw there. Yeah. And it would always be men over 50, always the one who shout that out,

aren't they? There's always the one there. It would always be a man over 50 would go, can't be a very good one then, mate. And everyone laughs. Well, no, actually. No, it makes a gig very awkward right out the gate. Okay. Well, I'm definitely not going to mention that I'm an undercover cop then. Yeah, don't mention it. Too busy talking about Bake Off and Being Sad. That's the problem with my show. A lot of stuff about being sad and doing Bake Off. Oh no. Oh, I did Bake Off. I did Bake Off and I was tired. You know, that sort of thing. That's what I'm going to do. Yeah. They're the two types of routines. We all know that. Pretended to be an undercover cop or saying you were on Bake Off and it was sad. Yeah, exactly. No, but my tour is

on sale now and it's edgambal.co.uk for tickets. So do buy a ticket for God's sake. It's my livelihood. I've got a cat to support. I've got a cat to support. Come on. What about pig? Think about a little pig. Anything you want to plug, James? Go on. Yes. Don't forget to tweet at Off Menu Official with your intro for this week's podcast. Hey there, Mr. Bonito. I've got an intro for you and then whatever it was that I'd said. The cocoa pops of conversation pouring over the cold milk of humor and Oh God. So remove the Oh God and then finish it off. I'm so tired. He's so tired. Look at how tired he is. I'm so tired. He's tired. He's hungover. I got absolutely blasted last night. I didn't eat dinner and then had two Vodkas before we went out and then drank

four points when we were doing karaoke and now I'm absolutely obliterated. Yes. I've got to go out for dinner tonight with someone who famously drinks. Oh man. I was fine for recording. Look, we recorded two this morning. We recorded this one with McKee's room. We recorded one that you would have heard last week, I think. That went fine because I hadn't eaten much. Then I went downstairs after we recorded it and I ate some bread and some cheese and some ham and then a big slice of a spooky, spooky Colin cake. Yeah. Spooky Colin the caterpillar. Yeah. And now I feel awful. What's the difference when he's spooky? Well, I don't know. I just ate it. Look at this guy. He had a bone on it for me. Who is this? Imagine if you were like this every week.

Well, it wouldn't last, would it? The podcast wouldn't last. No, it wouldn't have got off the ground. But it's fun to have it now though. It's a welcome change this week. I quite like it. Well, and we've got another little peek behind the curtain. We've got to record some ads now. Yeah, we've got to record some ads. So they'll be playing for months in advance. So I'd imagine you'll be reminded of this moment in a few months when you hear an advert of me being sick. Yeah. Even how depressed he sounds. And like, this is odd in this ad. James seems to be doing a majority of the admin and the actually important stuff in it. He's just grumbling and moaning for the whole thing. Oh, man. Oh, well. Well, it was a good episode though. It was a good episode.

And I think this has been a brilliant ending. Yeah. I'm very happy with this. Very good stuff. Okay, bye. Bye, everyone. If you enjoyed this podcast, can I interest you in a totally different podcast that's not about food and doesn't have James A. Castor or Ed Gamble. But I would say is quite fun. No, thank you. Oh, okay. Not to worry. If you change your mind at a later date, it's called Nobody Panic. Right. It's hosted by me, Tessa Coates, and my friend, Stevie Martin, which is weirdly me. And we tackle all kinds of how-to's from big things to small things. How to stop saying sorry, how to poo, how to break up with someone, how to quit your job, how to relax, how to have a

conversation, how to deal with unrequited love. A smorgasbord of thing. Absolutely. We have a nice time. People seem to like it. If you like, you can come and see what all the fuss is about. All that fuss? What's it called? Nobody Panic. You can find it on all of the podcast apps that you would imagine it would be on. Please have a listen. Hello, it's me, Amy Glendale. You might remember me from the best ever episode of Off Menu, where I spoke to my mum and asked her about seaweed on mashed potato and our relationship's never been the same since. And I am joined by me, Ian Smith. I would probably go bread. I'm not going to spoil it in case. Get him on, James and Ed. But we're here sneaking in to your podcast

experience to tell you about a new podcast that we're doing. It's called Northern News. It's about all the news stories that we've missed out from the North because, look, we're two Northerners. But we've been living in London for a long time. The new stories are funny. Quite a lot of them crimes. It's all kicking off. And that's a new podcast called Northern News. We'd love you to listen to. Maybe we'll get my mum on. Get Glendale's mum on every episode. That's Northern News. When's it out, Ian? It's already out now, Amy! Is it? Yeah, get listening. There's probably a backlog. You've left it so late.