Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 177: Kathy Burke

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

We’re digging for national treasure, and we’ve found Kathy Burke – a guest we’ve been inviting to the Dream Restaurant since day one.Kathy Burke’s podcast ‘Where There’s a Will, There’s a Wake’ is out now on all the usual podcast platforms. Listen to it here.Recorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography and design) and Amy Browne (illustrations).Follow Off Menu on Twitter and Instagram: @offmenuofficial.And go to our website www.offmenupodcast.co.uk for a list of restaurants recommended on the show.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, listeners of the Off Menu podcast. It is Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu podcast. I have a very exciting announcement. I have written my first ever book. I am absolutely over the moon to announce this. I'm very, very proud of it. Of course, what else could I write a book about? But food. My book is all about food. My life in food. How greedy I am. What a greedy little boy I was. What a greedy adult I am. I think it's very funny. I'm very proud of it. The book is called Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy. And it's coming out this October, but it is available to pre-order now, wherever you pre-order books from. And if you like my signature, I've done some signed copies,

which are exclusively available from Waterstones. But go and pre-order your copy of Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy now. Please? Welcome to the Off Menu podcast, taking one layer of humor sponge, spreading on the buttercream of friendship, the jam of great chat, and then putting another big bit of internet sponge on top of it. And that's the podcast, James. It's a cake. Is my name Victoria? No, James A. Castor. And that's Ed Gamble. And this is the Off Menu podcast. So we invite a guest into our

dream restaurant and we ask them their favorite ever, start a main course dessert, side dish and drink, not in that order. And this week, our guest is Kathy Burke. Oh, here we are. Back in a little town we like to call National Treasure Chester. Get your shovels, because we're digging for treasure. We're digging for treasure. Nationally. What a treat, James, this is, to have Kathy Burke on the podcast. Every time I've been asked, who's the dream guest to have on the podcast, Kathy Burke always gets mentioned

by me. I would say this is the longest we have tried to get a guest, because before we even did our first episode, the people we asked straight away were Scroobius Pip, Kathy Burke and Richard Osman and Grace Dent. So those four straight away were the first four emails we sent out. And Kathy was like, I'll try and make it work if I can. And we've been trying to make it work for years. Yes. And we finally, finally.

Finally did it. So now, when people ask me for dream guests, I can't say Kathy Burke and the rock anymore. I just have to say the rock. Now it's just the rock. So make it happen, people. Maybe Kathy knows the rock. Kathy might know the rock. The Burke might know the rock.

The Burke might know the rock. So excited to have Kathy. And obviously, what a history of work. We've grown up fans. We've both met her a couple of times and have been in it. You've not? Never met her. Oh, my God.

I can't believe I'm about to be here the first time I've met Gamble meets Kathy Burke. Yeah. This is going to be great. I'm also aware that Kathy refers to our podcast as the Where's Me Dinner podcast. So... I'm sure we'll get into that. Yes. I've referred to Kathy Burke's new podcast as Where There's a Will, There's a Wake.

Well, that's the title of it. Yes. It's the actual name. Yeah. Yeah. Not Where's Me Funal. Yeah. Oh, I'm Dead podcast.

Yes. If you could plan your perfect death, what would you do? That's the tank line. That's good. You've recorded an episode, haven't you, James? I have. I went on and talked to Kathy about my perfect death, perfect funeral, perfect afterlife. And it was an early morning record.

It really, really bummed me out for the rest of the day, if I'm honest. Yeah. Yeah. But this is a very interesting talking point. I'm assuming... I mean, I've not heard it yet, but I'm assuming myself and the great Benito will be carrying the coffin. Yeah.

Well, maybe you. You're a strong boy. Yeah. But Benito can get involved. He can do a eulogy, but not with his little twin arms. Hold the coffin up. Yeah. But I think the idea with Paul Bearer's is that you have many, right?

So it's sort of distributed and you're not a heavy guy, James. Even so. Even so. I think I would have to... He could be there for showing, but I don't think he's going to be doing any work. I imagine everyone wearing the traditional funeral garb apart from Benito's wearing his Alton Towers jumper. Yeah.

Yeah. He wears Alton Towers jumper. He would have... He won't care. He'll be looking for a replacement going around. I think he will care. That would be a lot of admin to have to deal with, too. Mainly for you networking at the wake, just trying to see who likes food.

We are. I know. You bet. You chips to the buffet there. Don't give away what's on the buffet. We need to go and listen to Cathy's new podcast to find out. Yeah. We all have to.

There's loads of food chat on that. I do talk about a lot of food. But anyway, it's not about me. It's about Cathy Burke. Oh, so excited. But of course, and we're really hoping this doesn't happen today, James, that if Cathy picks an ingredient which we have predecided upon, that is our secret ingredient, something we hate, we will ask her to leave the dream restaurant and go straight to her dream funeral.

And this week, the secret ingredient is crab sticks. Crab sticks or crab-flavoured sticks or fish sticks. Thank you, Bede. Thank you, Jenny Bede. Wonderful comedian, Jenny Bede, suggested this to me on WhatsApp. Now, I'm fully behind it. I have to say, though, we've had tin crab in the past, now we've got crab sticks. Crab is sounding like we don't like crab.

I love crab. Of course we like crab. I actually don't mind crab sticks sometimes. Okay. My wife loves crab sticks. Did she know? I didn't know that. They're regularly in our fridge.

She'll absolutely, you know, in the packet, they come in those little separate plastic sleeves. Like little cheese strings. You can find those around the house quite regularly. Disgusting. Yeah, find those next to the bath and stuff. Oh, God. Gross.

Absolutely gross. It always surprises me how gross his wife is. Because every time I see her, just lovely. Yeah. I would never guess all this stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. These little crabby packets around the house. They can crab everywhere if I'd crab stick packets in the bathroom bin.

God, I'm bad at it. But look, we're a big crab fan. On my tour that I just went on, my tour manager just was like, every time he looked at a menu was like, I know what you're having. You're having the one with the crab on it. The crab. I didn't even notice that about myself. So now I feel bad selling out the crab here.

I actually don't think there's any crab in them. There you go. Which is why you have to call them crab flavored sticks. That's a bit from my man in Partridge when he does a fact about crab sticks. Oh, does it? And you have to call them crab flavored sticks. Maybe we should save the secret ingredient from when we have Steve Coogan on the podcast. No, we've got loads of other things we can use for Steve Coogan.

Oh yeah, loads. Smell my cheese. Yeah, spinal column in a bap. Yeah, anyway. It's not about Steve Coogan. It's about Cathy Burke. About Cathy Burke. Yes, this is the off menu menu of Cathy Burke.

Welcome, Cathy, to the Dream Restaurant. Thank you very much. Welcome, Cathy Burke, to the Dream Restaurant. We've been expecting you for some time. Yes. Here we are. We actually have. We actually have, yeah.

Well, I did listen to Lovely Richard E Grant on your show quite recently, and I heard you say you wanted either me or The Rock. So I couldn't actually get in touch with The Rock himself. You got in your back. I did bring The Rock to just be part of it, yeah? Yes. But for the listener, Cathy has brought an action figure of The Rock. That is good.

He's got a little black waistcoat on and no top. Yeah, that's amazing. That child is absolutely a reptile, as you'd imagine. And he moves. Look at that. Can I sit? Oh, let's sit him down. Let's sit him down, yeah.

Let's get a little comfy. What film's that? What film's the one where he wears a little black waistcoat? No, wrestling outfit. Wrestling. It did have WWE on the package. Yeah, WWE. It would have been by that point.

That's yours. You could keep that. Oh, yeah? I should have got two. So you'd have one each. We can have it in the studio. Yeah, for the studio record. I thought James would somehow get more pleasure out of it than you had.

That's probably true. Is this something you bought specifically for this purpose, or did you have one kicking around? No, I ordered it on a well-known delivery service, and there was a right palaver. Was there? Well, he didn't get delivered. We couldn't deliver.

And I thought it was a goner, and I ordered it about three weeks ago. And then the other day, a neighbour from down the road said, oh, I've had this package for a few days, and it was the wrong one. I was like, oh, wonderful. Did you tell your neighbour what the package was? No, I'm never that familiar with neighbours.

Thank you very much. You start on that cable, they'll never leave. Yeah, my neighbours are the same. They're simply addresses to have parcels delivered to and pick up at a later date. Exactly. I try and have chats with mine. Do you?

Yeah, well, we're right next to each other, right in the little corner. I mean, I have to say, my neighbours are lovely. Yeah. That's very, very nice. But I've always sort of kept myself to myself. What I'm imagining, just for my own amusement, is that Kathy's neighbour is the rock.

Yes. So that's why you didn't tell him what was in the package. I feel like if Kathy's neighbour was the rock, you might have been able to get something from him to bring in rather than order her. Maybe. I don't know, man. Maybe noise.

He might not have liked some noise in the past and didn't want to do me any favours. I'm on a street WhatsApp group. Oh, no. Oh, no. See, I've really resisted for a long time. Yeah. But it is brilliant.

Is it? Yeah, because there's one guy down the road who always looks out the blinds just at the right time as something's happening and you're like, you're looking out those blinds all day. And the other day he saw a workman who was working in one of the other houses, come out of the house and do a shit next to one of the cars.

What? What? That's outrageous. And listen to this. This guy went outside and took a picture of the shit and put it on the WhatsApp group. Oh, gee, please. Well, excuse me, I just burped.

I tell you probably why you had to have a shit outside because a lot of people don't let builders or workmen use the conveniences in their home, which I think is outrageous. It is completely outrageous. And completely inhumane. Yeah. And going to the bathroom is very, very important.

Yeah. So it might smell for a bit. Yeah. And just tell them, say, look, clean it after. I don't want to be sorting out anybody's skid marks. So just make sure you clean it. It's all you've got to say. It's all I say.

Yeah, yeah. It's all you'd say. I mean, the story went on and on. Like, there was more details coming through. I don't think it was very well. It was only 16 or 17. He had to come back and clean it up because his boss told him to clean it up.

And then he was crying while he was cleaning up the poo. Oh, this is so sad. But from my perspective, reading all that on a WhatsApp group, I had the best morning of my life. Of course. Of course. Because, like, you know, it is funny when people cry. Yeah.

That is quite funny. Especially when they're clearing up their own shit. Yeah, yeah. That is funny. That is funny. Sorry. Awful. Talking to shit.

That's less. That's what you call our podcast, isn't it? That's what I call your podcast, Ed. I love it. It's about a name. Because I can't remember off menu. It's so weird. It's so easy.

And of course, it makes sense. But I just, I said to Roisin Connity, I said, oh, I'm doing Where's Me Dinner? And she said, she went, what's Where's Me Dinner? And I went, you've done it. You know, Where's Me Dinner? Well, you talk about your dinner with Ed and James. She went, it's called off menu.

They're quite impressed at Roisin, though. Yeah. That's good for her. Yeah, we must have really made an impact. And of course, you've got your own podcast now. Yes, thank you. Well, there's a Will There's Awake? That's it.

Little bit of promotion. So I don't know when this is being aired, but I suppose we would have dropped by the time this is aired. It's dropped. I'm learning all this newfangled communication that the kids use. So yeah, it's called Well There's a Will There's Awake and it's about your fantasy funeral.

Ed has done it. Yeah. James came on them and was a lovely guest. I'm sure. He is a lovely guest, isn't he? We might be pushing for Ed to come on it at some point. No pushing needed. I'll be there in a shock at this.

Ed will never die. Ed will never die. Is that something you think? Yeah. I think you're one of the people, one of those kind of people who will never die. Right. I don't know what sort of people are they.

Yeah, there's a few people who are immortal people. Yeah. They'll just never die. And I think that's you. You'll always look like this forever. You'll always be alive. You'll always have time to plan what my dream funeral will be. Absolutely.

And it's quite nice because it's sort of a bit dark, but it's good fun and it's good to laugh in the face of death. It is. Because I think we're all quite frightened of it, but it's something we've got no control over. So Well There's a Will There's Awake allows you a little bit of control in a sort of fantasy aspect.

It's also really important to talk about because no matter what James thinks it is, it's going to happen to everyone. Yes. But you've got to get what you want out there. I mean, there is a situation maybe where someone who's been on your podcast doesn't leave a will or doesn't actually

tell their family what they want from the funeral. So their family have to listen to your podcast and then do what they said on that. That's exactly what Jennifer Saunders said. Well, there you go. At the end of it, Jennifer said, I'll just send this to Aide. And then I haven't got to bother with any legal shit.

Just send it to him. Well, everyone can listen to that now. Yes. Not right now. Listen to this first. Yeah. And then go and listen to all of where there's a will, there's a wake.

Thank you very much. Are you a big food fan, Kathy? Well, yeah. Yeah. I love food. Who doesn't like food? Some people, some weirdos. Well, I suppose I am a bit finicky

because I don't eat meat. So I haven't eaten meat for, God, it's nearly 40 years now. Which is really impressive. But I do occasionally have fish because every now and again I need, you know, you just sort of feel your body needs a bit of extra protein.

And it's very good for the skin. So I'm a pescatarian. Yeah. And I've been a pescatarian for 40 years. I wouldn't say that's finickety, though. I wouldn't talk to a pescatarian and go, oh, dear, it's picky. No, no.

We've only just started. There's a lot of finickety coming around the bend. There is. There is. There's a lot of things I can't eat because of the physical conditions. And there's a lot of things I won't eat because of good taste.

Could you do your own show called Can't Eat Won't Eat? Oh, that's a good idea. Yeah, yeah. It's just a sort of generation game style conveyor belt of things. And you just say... I just flick off what I don't want. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I'm Tilly Winks. Yeah. Tilly Stinks. No, I don't like aubergine. I back off. Yeah, I like aubergine. I don't like aubergine.

No. I think the reason I don't like aubergines is because when I started being a vegetarian and I didn't eat fish after the first 10 years of being veggie, but I was a veggie in the 80s, there was nothing. There was baked beans,

jacket potatoes, cauliflower cheese, and moussaka. LAUGHTER And that was it. I guess it's what Cappy doesn't like. Yeah, the absolute venom that you said moussaka with. Moussaka...

I fucking ate moussaka. So, like, the scarf and the lining that you were talking about. Moussaka. LAUGHTER Really? Yeah, yeah. I thought I might have sustained.

LAUGHTER Yeah, if that film was remade and instead of moussaka hanging over the edge of the cliff, it was a moussaka. You'd absolutely dig your claws in. Wouldn't be a scar. Yeah.

LAUGHTER So, yeah, so I don't like moussaka. The other thing I don't like is risotto. Uh-huh. Because that would be fobbed off on you a lot as a vegetarian

in the 80s. Yeah, 80s. Oh, gee whiz. In fact, I once did a... a few years ago. I fucking knows how long the gate was, but Gordon Ramsay had a show on the telly.

I think it was called the F word. Yeah, I remember that one. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he'd invite people to a restaurant and all that and he'd cook for you. Anyway, so I was looking forward. He knew I was a vegetarian.

Anyway, he comes over and he's like, really nice to meet you. I went nice to meet you. And he went, I'm really happy you're here. I'm a vegetarian. It's a bit of a bane in my life. And I went, OK. And he said,

but I'm going to do you a lovely risotto. And I went, no, you're not. And he was like, what? And I said, I don't like risotto. I'm not having it. And he said, but I'll do a really nice risotto. He's called him Bloody Ramsay.

Yeah. And I went, I don't care. I don't want it. I ain't come all this way to have a risotto. So he had to go back into the kitchen. Moussaka. Can you imagine he used to say moussaka?

But anyway, he came back. And what he did, he did a nice pasta like a tanglitelli with mushrooms. And I have to say, it was amazing. Right. It was incredibly delicious. So I see if it wasn't.

I remember Vic Reeves going on. Maybe it was that show. Yeah. It was Hell's Kitchen. I know exactly what you're going to say. Ordering the fried egg. Yeah. It was, it was when everyone, they all,

I think it was when it was a celebrity one. They all had to cook in the kitchen. It was always a stressful service. Yes. And Vic Reeves, I don't know if he had a drink or he's just being weird. Just toddled up to the past where all the chefs were working

and asked for two fried eggs on a China plate. Yeah. Fantastic. Gordon Ramsay cracked two eggs over his head as far as I remember. Oh, did it? Yeah, yeah. As far as I remember, that's what happened.

It was furious. I remember that series. Was that the one when Edwina Curry was on it? Maybe, yeah. Oh, that's Hell's Kitchen. Hell's Kitchen. Oh, that was hilarious. Yeah.

It didn't eat sandwich or head between two slices of bread. It wasn't her, she hit that with the idiot sandwich or the stupid sandwich. I remember saying to Edwina Curry, you fucked our Prime Minister, now you're trying to fuck me up the arse. Absolutely brilliant.

That was so good. We always start with still a spark in water, Kathy. Still. Yeah. Question two. I would have been very surprised if you said spark thing. Well, I'll have a sparking now and again, but I drink a lot of water.

I really do drink a lot of water. And I do drink bottled water, which is sort of out of order. Or I can drink filtered water. I don't like water straight out the tap because I've got a funny tummy. So I think psychologically, if it's straight out the tap, I think I'm going to get the shit.

And it's not always the case. But I drink a lot of water. I love water. Oh, yeah? I don't understand it when people say, oh, I need a little bit of juice in there, or I just don't get it. Yeah, people just think water's boring

and I don't understand it. It's the best. It is. It's great. Unless it comes from the tap because it gives you the shit. Yeah, I can't have it from the tap. Have you ever had it from the tap and it's giving you the shit? Yes. Oh, okay.

Yes, I've got a very... I know I don't look it, but I'm very delicate. Yeah. Claudia Wyncombe on the podcast said she never drinks water. Really? She thinks it's disgusting and she thinks that when you drink it, it spoils your tongue up

and makes your tongue all big and wet. That surprises me because she's got such lovely skin. She's got very glossy hair. She's eating a lot of fish. Ah, do you think? Yeah, yeah. Must be the fish.

But that surprises me about the old water. But yes, anyway, I would like some still water, please. Filtered, bottled? Filtered or bottled? Do you have a bottle of choice at home? Do you have some... Not really.

It's whatever's cheapest on... What's on offer... Yeah. ...on the old delivery. Do you want anything in the water? Do you want any lemon ice? No. Okay, you looked disgusted when I said that.

No. Um, no. A member of a friend of mine got really into making cucumber water. Yeah, yeah. You know, for Jesus. Yeah. A lot of shit.

Did a name and shame this person? No. No. You rock. It was top film director Joe Wright and he got into making this cucumber water for a bit. I was like, no, you're all right.

I'd have preferred tap. Would it have been like long cut cucumbers? Like the long... Yeah, I don't know. They were just all in a sort of object, you know. Like a vat. Yeah, with a fancy tap on it. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

You pass a lot of places, you see it in cafes here. Yeah, yeah. You know. Sometimes they... Like, so I've just been on tour in a lot of hotels. Yeah.

And you stay in a slightly nicer hotel. That's what they have at breakfast, instead of just like normal water. They've got like mint and strawberry and cucumber. I think they call it spar water. Oh. All in a big vat. I just want a glass of water,

because quite often I just want the water to cool my coffee down, but you can't have a strawberry cucumber mint coffee. No. Maybe that... And also, wouldn't there be bits? Yeah. You know, bits get on my nerves

when there's bits in things. Yes. It's like, I can't be having that. So you're a smooth orange juice person as well. I am a smooth orange juice person. Yeah. Yeah. Orange juice with bits.

Disgusting. It's like... I've said it before. I'll say it again. It's like someone's emptied a pencil sharpener into my orange juice. I hate it. I hate it.

Absolutely hate it. That's a brilliant way of describing it. Disgusting. But it is bits of orange though. So it's like someone's used a pencil sharpener to sharpen an orange and then empty it in. Yeah. Even worse.

Disgusting. Do you like yogurts with bits in it? When a yogurt's got like bits of strawberry and bits of raspberry and then... Well, sometimes. I do prefer a plain yoghurt, but sometimes, see, I'm mad about blueberries.

Oh, yeah. So if there's a blueberry, we'll get on to blueberries later, but if there's a blueberry knocking about in some yoghurt, then I'll have that quite happily. I had blueberries this morning in my porridge. Very good.

Thank you. It's pretty impressive. Pop those all bread. Pop those all bread, Cappy Burg. Bread. Pop those all bread. Bread. Of course, bread.

See, that's how I feel, but you know, I do get quite a lot of people saying pop-a-dums, but I'm always bread as well. I'm very relieved that quite a few people say pop-a-dums because it was my idea to say that stupid question. Pop-a-dums are great if you're having a nice bit of curry or something.

Yeah. But just, you know, you can't toast a pop-a-dum. And I love toast. Yeah. And I like brown bread. No seeds. Fucking...

This is bits again, isn't it? This is getting on me nerves for this seed shit. Everything. It's gone everything. Yeah. Honestly, I did a tweet a couple of years ago. Would you stop? Because I'm not a fucking parrot.

What is this? What is this? And I've got a lovely shop down the end of my road. Quite a posh French shop. And they do lovely baguettes and sourdough. And I've got myself a nice sourdough baguette from there the other day. Got it home.

Fucking seeds in it. Inside. Inside. They've never done that before. Yeah. And the seed thing, because I used to eat a lot of seeds because they're very healthy. So I used to scatter them on my salads.

And then I didn't realize I had this tummy condition called diverticulitis. And the worst thing you can eat are seeds. Really? Yeah, yeah. Because when you've got diverticulitis, it means you've got these little sort of pockets around your intestine.

So if you eat things like seeds, they can get stuck in the pockets and they can get infected and can make you terribly ill. So in the show where you flick food off that you don't like, this is a medical one rather than a taste one. This is a medical one? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes. Because I used to love, there's a shot. Are we allowed to mention shots? Yeah, go for it. So M&S used to do a great brown batch loaf that was covered in seeds. And I used to love it. It was delicious, particularly toasted

because then some of the seeds would be quite, what would you say, cracky? Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. But obviously that was killing me, you know. So yeah, no seeds, thanks. Is there anything else that gets trapped in the tummy pockets apart from seeds? Is there anything else?

All the bits, I imagine. All the bits, I suppose. Although I wasn't really told that by the doctors. It was just by my consultants, I should say. It was just mostly seeds. And I had been going big time on the seeds before I got... So you were a parrot?

Yeah. I was aptly a parrot. But not any longer. And in the last sort of 10 years, it's gone seed nuts. Yeah. You know, because everyone's gone fucking healthy. But I think it's just...

It's a cheap way of filling up a salad bowl. Yeah. Oh, we'll throw some seeds on there. They're about a penny and we can charge 10 pounds. Yeah, yeah. It's a scam. Yeah. So what type of bread are we talking then for this?

Well, I love a home meal. And I love cranks, home meal. It's quite dense, but I love it. It's the best toast. It's wonderful. Not heard of cranks? No, I'm not sure I have either. Cranks?

Yeah. So cranks was... It was sort of one of the first sort of veggie restaurants. It used to be around the back of Soho, somewhere in Soho. So yes, when I first became veggie 40 years ago, I would have to go to cranks. I'd have to go all the way into town. If I wanted to get a few bits, you know what I mean?

Stock up on some things. And then, yeah, they do a great home meal loaf. I think some shops, like normal shops, will do a cranks loaf. But again, I went into a shop that I knew did cranks and I went in and it was a seeded cranks loaf. The worst. These seeds are just following you around, aren't they? They're just everywhere.

And when you were walking to the shop, you were thinking, I can't wait to have my cranks loaf. Me cranks toast when I get home. Yeah. Nice bit of toast. And yeah, so that didn't happen. So I don't mind your sort of common, sliced, shop-bought, hovis, warptons, but always brown.

I just prefer home meal. Well, I think for your dream menu, we can get you some cranks. Yeah. And a bit of butter on there. No, no butter. I used olive spread. Delicious. Which I much prefer, actually.

I find butter a bit much. Yeah. I do, yeah, a bit much. Every now and again, it's nice, but it's quite... Yeah, it's just like eating soft cheese, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I'm well on board for that. That's fantastic.

It would go home and eat a whole... Brilliant. ...block of butter now. My wife went on holiday to Paris with some friends recently, came back, just brought me some butter in her bag. It's the butter with chunks of salt in it. Yes. That is great butter.

I go to France a lot. Yeah. And, I mean, they're dirty bastards, because they'll put me in everything. Like, you're all just some peas, and it's been cooked in fucking duck neck or something, just some peas. Yeah, yeah. They just love it. Although I have to say again, just on the flip side, so...

But my friend, Sean, who lives in France, who I go to visit, him and his husband, Peter, will be on to Peter later. And he's vegan, Sean. Yeah, yeah. And actually, living in France, and they're getting great at it now, and there's lots of vegan choices to be had. So... Yeah.

But that butter with the salt is extraordinary. That's so good. But do you not count that as bits? That's bits, innit? It's bits. It's butter with bits of salt in it. Yeah, but it's sort of different, isn't it? It's salt.

I mean, it's normally... And it melts a little bit as well, right? Yeah. So they're not crunchy bits. Well, they are a little bit, but, you know... Yeah. But actually, you can use it on toast, because then it does melt. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then your salty bread is even saltier with the salty toast. Is this what you want on your dream meal, then, the brown toast with just olive spread or anything else on that? Yeah, just some olive spread, yeah. Every now and again, I like a bit of seedless jam. Yes, absolutely. And you can get seedless raspberry jam. And I love a cherry jam.

Love cherries. Do you like marmalade? Marmalade? No. No. I don't like marmalade. That's... James is annoyed there, because he was going to ask his traditional question.

Which is... Are you a shredhead or a shredless wonder? Because you talk about bits, and there's marmalade that has the shreds in it and marmalade that has no shreds in it. Oh. No, I find it a bit bitter. Just a bit...

It's a bit strong for me. I had a very nice lime and rum marmalade the other day. Oh, lime and rum. Yeah, maybe you would enjoy that. It was good. Shreds? Shreds in it, but I didn't mind. That's interesting.

That's the sort of thing you get for Christmas, isn't it? Yes. And then put it at the back of the cupboard for a year. That's it. Yes, that's what happened. And now it's no damn problem. I just opened it for the first time. And did it have a mouldy top on it?

No, it didn't. It was very happy. Oh, that's good. Who was it? Was it Theresa May that said, you just got to scrape off the mould? Off the top. Says a lot, doesn't it?

Yeah, it does this. Was that about jam or about the economy? Yeah. One more question before we move on to the starter. How did your goddamn wife get butter from France to your house without melting and going all bad? Well, it's not, you know, it's not particularly hot time of year. And, you know, it's quite a quick trip now, I think.

Hop on the Euro stuff. Not too bad. Not too bad. And she brought back, I'm not joking, about 12 salamis as well. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because she eats very oddly when I'm away as well.

She'll just live like a squirrel or a rat or something. And just sort of scuttled to the kitchen and eats slices of sausage all night. So she just grazes? She grazes all day. And then I come back with my square meals. Yes. And she's gutted. I think she loves grazing like a little rat.

So we'll get onto your meal proper now. Your dream starter. Right. So my dream starter is a small portion, obviously, because it's a starter, of spaghetti pesto. That's very nice. Do you look quite pleased with yourself? Well, yes, because I sort of wanted spaghetti pesto as my main.

And then I thought, oh, that's a bit, oh. And then I thought, oh, no, well, the Italians, they like to have a little bowl of pasta as their starter sometimes. You've hacked it. You've hacked the system because now you get to have that as your starter. I mean, the Italians sometimes will do starter, pasta course, main. Oh, that's true. And then dessert.

Oh, that's true. Is there anything else you were thinking of for your starter that you want to then throw before the pasta course? You can use the pasta course loophole. We have allowed people to use that loophole before. Oh, really? Oh, great. All right, then.

Right, great. OK, well, for my starter, for my pasta course, I once, you know, there's a very posh restaurant called the IV. Yeah. And many, many years ago, before I knew I couldn't eat seeds, I only went to the IV and they did a tomato tart that was so delicious. I dreamt about it that night. Yeah.

And I sort of went back to the restaurant like a week later just to have this starter again. Great. Because it was beautiful. It was that lovely, flaky pastry that it was roasted tomatoes and like a balsamic dressing. Oh, it was delicious. That sounds delicious.

When roasted tomatoes and they go all sweet and a little bit chewy as well, maybe just really delicious. Absolutely gorgeous. What happened in the dream with the tomato tart? I was just eating a tomato tart. That's so funny. Exactly the same as what happened in the day. Exactly the same.

Different output on? No. But the same taste, you know? The same. It was like eating it again. I do that as well. I really worry when I just have dreams that are so literal to what's just happened. Because everyone else is like really weird dreams trying to interpret them,

you know, processing what's happened in the day. I'm like, yeah, I'm eating exactly the same food in the dream as I was eating just before I went to sleep. Just having me dinner all over again. So that would be my starter and then my little pasta course would be my spaghetti pesto, homemade pesto. So you make your own pesto? Oh, yeah.

Fuck yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, sometimes it just doesn't live up to it when I eat out. I can always tell as well when they've used a jarred pesto. Yeah, yeah. And you can tell. And that's very, very, very disappointing. What's going in your pesto, in your homemade pesto?

Your basil. Yeah. Your pine nuts, garlic, olive oil, parmesan. Lovely. A little bit of salt and pepper. Sometimes, just to be controversial, I'll chuck a few spinach leaves in there. Oh, yeah. Because it just gives a nice deeper green.

And it's the simplest thing to make. I mean, the jar stuff, it costs a fortune compared. And you know, basil's quite, they're all quite expensive ingredients. But if you make enough, you can freeze it, put it in little tuppers and freeze them. How often are you having pesto? Quite a lot. I'd say, I'd probably have pesto maybe once a week. So it does get used.

I think that's a good amount. It's clearly something you enjoy, but it's not turned into a problem. It's not a problem. Good. I tell you, when it was a problem, remember that lovely program, The Trip that Steve Coogan and Rob... Brighton! Brighton!

...did together. Well, when they did The Trip Italy, oh, it was a nightmare because they're eating this, I mean, divine food. So I would have to pause it, go downstairs, make yourself some spaghetti pesto, come back upstairs and eat a little bowl of spaghetti pesto while I was watching it. And they have multiple meals per episode in that. They do. So are you making multiple bowls of tiny spaghetti pesto every time they ate anything?

No, just a bowl and an episode. But I would. It just became a little habit. It was like, I've given it 10 minutes, I've tried, I've got to go make some spaghetti pesto. I find, so I love pesto, of course I do. But I'll be very hesitant to have a meal that's like pesto heavy because for me, I'm tasting that pesto for the rest of the day. Oh, really?

Oh, the taste of pesto in my mouth, I'm doing pesto burps. They're the most, I mean, the most distinctive burps. Like, I could burp five hours later and it will taste of pesto. Really? But that's a delight for you, I guess, if you like pesto. I wouldn't mind that. I wouldn't mind that. But no, I wonder what it is.

It might be the garlic in it that's repeating. Yeah. Something on me, but like, every time, it's like, because I'm a big pudding boy, I love to eat desserts. Yeah. So I'm like, if I have this pesto, I don't know how long it's going to be until I can have a pudding and it won't taste of pesto. You know?

That's so weird. That's my dilemma. But it shouldn't, I get the pesto burp thing, but it shouldn't flavour the next bit of food that you have. Oh, I can feel it in there. You can feel it in there? It's still in my mouth, the pesto. Yeah.

The ghost of the pesto is still in there. Man, it's so basil heavy or something. Yeah. I think the basil is a big part of it. I mean, I've been known to eat pesto from the jar like a yogurt. Yes. Really? It makes you just stand at the fridge and eat pesto with a teaspoon.

Wow. Get it down me. Well, it is, it is, it doesn't need cooking. No. It only needs warming through. And it happens in my tongue. Yeah. Yeah.

The oven, I call it. What do you think of red pesto? Oh, big question. Well, that's a tomato pesto. Yeah. I mean, I would, not peppers. I can't have peppers. They give me indigestion.

But yes, I suppose if a sun-dried tomato pesto, as long as the little seeds have been removed, I would, I would happily make that. That's a lot of effort, though, to remove the seeds from a sun-dried tomato. It really isn't. It doesn't want to give them up, does it? No, no, no. You just get a teaspoon and you just scrape them out. Here's something I'm going to offer you.

You've got your tomato tart with your sun-dried tomatoes in it. Yeah. Followed by the pesto pesto. Yeah. In between the two is a bridge. Do you want a little teaspoon of red pesto? As a bridge? A literal bridge.

A literal bridge from the sun-dried tomato into the pesto. That's lovely. It's lovely. It's quite good, actually. It's one of those little, what are they called? A little sorbet thing. Yeah. A little tomato sorbet would be quite a good bridge.

Because I don't mind those little palate cleansers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I fucking ate a moose-boosh. What the fuck? Boy, is that. Yeah. Well, I tried to do it on this podcast for a bit. Yeah.

I tried to get people with moose-booshes at the beginning. No. They're just like little glasses of sick. Very chef-y, isn't it? It really is. It's like, look, stop titting about. Yeah. Just make me me dinner.

I don't need these little glasses of puke. So it's supposed to get your mouth ready, right? That's the whole point. Yeah. But when I turn up to dinner, my mouth's ready. Yeah. My mouth's always ready for dinner. Yeah.

Where's my dinner? Us in the trip, when they do the, they say, it's Ray Winston's phlegm. Word, please. That makes me, I hate that word. Your dream main course, you've already found a lovely pack with the pasta course. You seem to be off to a very satisfying start here. Yes, yes. With your start around your pasta course.

Yes. Your main. So my main, so I do occasionally have some fish. I will have very simple pan fried sea bass. I pan fry it, skin down in a little bit of chili oil. Oh, nice. So you, when you like that crispy skin, it's a little bit chili fried. And I have that with calf's continental potatoes.

And what they are is one day I had a couple of Charlotte potatoes left in the fridge, a red onion and a couple of tomatoes. And I thought, what am I going to do with this? So I chopped them all up, deseeded the tomatoes, mix them up in some lovely garlic oil, put them in the oven. Amazing. Amazing. So that's now a regular at mine.

Calf's continental potatoes, which is just basically spud onion, tomato. I like that you're not committing to a particular country of where it's from. It's just continental. I mean, I called them continental. I really don't know why. I think just to make them sound a bit special, they're just potato onion and toms. What's the ratios between the potatoes, the onions and the toms? Are you just like a third each?

Or are they mainly potatoes? Mainly potatoes. And the Charlotte ones are the best. And you cut them in nice slices. You get them going first. And then you slice up your tomatoes and your onions. And after the potatoes have had a nice 20 minutes, first little twisty, spinny. Then bung in the tomatoes and onions.

It's great. And you could just forget about them for about another half hour. It's lovely. So I have those with some pan fried sea bass, but they're not my side. No, no, no, no, no. They go with the sea bass. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

You've got your garlic oil there in with the continental potato. And you put in salt, pepper in there. Oh yeah, absolutely. And if I haven't got any garlic oil, I'll put in a couple of cloves of garlic. That makes it continental. Yeah, even more continental. And I love chunks of roasted garlic. Yeah, that's great.

What a treat that is. Oh, when you roast a whole garlic and then you squeeze those little juicy butts out. That's lovely. Really nice. And a slice of Crank's Homemade Bread. Well, if you've got some garlic in there, you could save some bread from the bread course. And then mop up. And start mopping and spreading and doing all that.

Amazing. Yeah. How long have you been doing cat's continental potatoes for? I think probably, it's probably about 10 years. That's good. Yeah, because I think it was 10 years ago that it was, what do I do, me leftovers. And then it was like, oh my God, I've just come up with this amazing dish. You know, people are going to be making this now.

Yeah. You get a lot of, are you on social media? Of course. Well, you'll be getting some photos. Well, that's all right. It's better than when I first joined social media and I was getting photos of people's shit. If you want that, you need to join my neighbor's WhatsApp group. Why were people sending you pictures of shit?

Oh, you know, just dirty, troubled people. I don't know. It was a real shock. Yeah, when I first joined Twitter. Hold on. Hold on. There wasn't anything that you were doing. Yeah, I thought there was some internet trend or something.

No, no, no. It was just troubled people. It's Jilly and Keith show or something. You've not done any of that. No, I just joined. And yeah, just, I don't know. So it's why I learned how to use the block button. Yeah.

Quite quick. Yeah. If only they'd learned how to use the block button. If only. Sorry. How many people were doing this? Was it one person? No, I think I got about three.

It's extraordinary, isn't it? Yeah. People's lives, man. Well, there you go. Now you're going to get cast continental potatoes pictures. Yes, please. And they'll be a lot nicer. Thank you.

And so this sea bass, and that's cooked by you for your dream meal. Oh, yeah. Cooked by you. Yeah, yeah. The crispy skin, the chili oil. Yes, chili oil on the skin and cast continental potatoes. Would you put the sea bass on a bed of the cast continental potatoes? Or was it?

No, no. No, no. It's just on the, everything, you know. Yeah. On one plate. On one plate, sort of not piling, not little bits of, like, little finger full. Yeah. You know, I've got a big spoon.

I scoop a lot. Yeah. On to the bag. That's a big spoon. That's a big spoon. Nearly fell off. Nearly fell off your chair. Man, that would have been a big moment on the podcast.

We're not going to have someone fall off their chair. Did they just lean back? Yeah. It won't go all the way back. That would be a horrible thing to do, I guess. That would be really horrible. It's not a good Doctor Evil chair. So, the cast continental potatoes are not your dream side.

So, what is your dream side? Well, because we've got quite a lot of oil in that. You know, the sea bass has been pan fried. Cast continental potatoes have got the garlic oil. So, we need something steamed. And I love it. I like how he very seriously said, when he said steamed, like it was like some plan of action.

And you threw your hand in the air. We need a big bowl gesture. We need something stinky. Your face looked deadly serious. Well, yeah, because otherwise it's too much grease. So, you need to cut through the grease. So, I mean, I love greens. So, it's either going to be steamed broccoli

and a little bit of chilli, maybe a little bit of garlic, or just plain steamed broccoli, or steamed spinach, which I love. I hate creamed spinach. What the hell is that? But in cream, I mean, I just think it's repulsive. So, I don't want creamed spinach, thank you very much. If I'm in a restaurant and the spinach on the side

is creamed spinach, I say, could you please ask the chef not to creame in my spinach? I just want it plain. And a little bit of salt and pepper, tiny little bit. I also like peas. So, you could, on my side, could be... What would you say? Yes, a medley, very good, of broccoli, spinach.

Although the spinach can be a bug. You've got to do the spinach separately because you've got to get the water out of it. Broccoli, spinach and peas. And that goes really lovely with the continental spuds and the sea bass. You've really thought about this as a menu as a whole, which I like.

Of course, that's what I was asked to do. Some people come in and just go with all their favourite foods all in one... Ed, some people are cunt. That's all I've got to say. Correct. There's a place that I can get on delivery now called Cocket. And they do amazing...

Chicken, the rotisserie chicken place. They have their salads. Oh, yeah, the salads are amazing. Salads are really something else. And their baratta salad with peas and courgette is one of my favourites. Really big peas. What's baratta?

It's cheese that's like a creamier mozzarella. Oh, yes, of course. It comes as a whole thing and then you cut into it and it just like spills all the creamies. Oh, that sounds really nice. It's very good. I don't know what kind of peas they are. They're bigger than your regular peas.

They're like marbles. Wow, big peas. But like really delicious peas. They're like marbles. Yeah, they're like big fat peas. They're not like normal... Are they called marrow peas? Maybe they are.

There's a people called marrow fat pea. It might be them. I had a great day the other day just sitting there on delivery and favouriting all my favourite ones so that I've gotten proper. Oh, I didn't know you could do that. I didn't know you could do it. I'm a little bit of a stranger now. I can just go on my list of favourites.

I don't have to be scrolling all the time looking for my favourites. I love getting little insights into James's life. That was his great day the other day. He's so happy with the simple stuff, isn't he? That's a good way to be a human. I like having an organised list of things you like. Yes. And I can just go on that list

and look at it and go, I can have all these things to my house. So it's a chicken place, really. But they do veggie stuff. It's a chicken there. It's pretty good. The chicken's fine. But the salads are the highlight, I think. When I was a kid,

because I used to eat meat, obviously, when I was a kid, and I used to babysit. Back in the 70s, when you were a child, like a nine or 10-year-old, you absolutely were allowed to look after three and four-year-olds.

I used to do a lot of babysitting. I remember going out and this lovely lady used to look after her kid, lovely lady called Molly. And they were going out for a Saturday night and she said to me, okay, she said,

help yourself, help yourself to whatever you like. And so I was like, great. And I had a look around. I put the kids to bed, had a look around the kitchen. There was a chicken in the oven. They would obviously cook the night before for their Sunday dinner the next day. And I thought, oh, I'll have a bit of chicken.

And I mean, yeah, I was like, you know, desperate Dan. And I remember turning the chicken upside down to get the oysters, you know. Oh yeah, it's the good stuff.

Because I used to love that. And you were nine. I was nine or 10. So I took the oysters at them and probably a leg. And her husband went, I was nine. But that's the thing.

I had a similar thing when I was like a teenager. A baby sat for the very first time. And they said, help yourself to anything in the fridge. So I went absolutely like, I did this like, I had so much shit. And then afterwards my mum explained to me, like, right, they find me and they said,

you basically clear their fridge. And I was like, yeah, well, they said, help myself to anything in the fridge mum. That's not what that means. What else did it mean? Why would anyone say that to me? Help myself to anything in the fridge. If they wanted you to have one specific thing

they should say, we've left that for you in the fridge. Or they should have said to you, but don't touch the chicken. Don't touch the chicken. Well, I think when I continued to babysit for them, there was probably a padlock on the oven or something. Because I would just, I would eat anything

when I was a kid. And I think that's why I ended up being a veggie because I just went off meat. I couldn't eat it anymore. I used to work in a bakery at one point. I had a couple of few jobs. And after school and Saturdays, I used to work in a laundrette and I used to work in a bakery.

The best thing about the bakery was the sausage rolls. Yeah. And I think I just OD'd on sausage rolls. You're desperate down the sausage rolls? Yeah, yeah. How many sausage rolls would you get through in a day working there? Oh my God, as many as I could get in me fat little face.

I just love them. And I'd hide them as well. So people would think the shop had run out of sausage rolls, but I just did them. You've got to be like, nah, I haven't got any sausage rolls. But you've just opened.

Yeah, yeah. Face is covered in flaky pastry. Why are your pockets bulging? So I've got X-man. So we move on to your dream drink. Oh, dream drink. Okay.

Cup of tea, please. That's what I said. I predicted this. Oh, did you? Oh, I'm so predictable. Nah, just because we've met twice, I think. But both those times, I remember cups of tea were something you looked forward to.

Yeah. I love a cup of tea. I love a cup of tea. But because I'm old now, knocking 60, and I have to be careful about things like blood pressure and heart and all that shit. So I have decaf now.

Well, I have, my first cup of tea is a normal cup of tea, and then the rest of the day is decaffeinated, which I didn't think I would ever get into. But they're fine. They're absolutely fine. It's lovely. I love my own tea.

The dreaded words are, shall I make you a cup of tea? And it's like, please don't. I'll do it myself. Can I do it myself? So when I turned up here today, lovely Naomi, you greeted me. Cup of tea, and I went,

now I've brought my own tea bags, and I'll, is that where it is? Great. I'll do my own tea. I love that. I love that to be able to say, oh, that's good. It just made me look a bit aggressive. No, not at all.

How long have you been having the decaffeinated tea for? Probably about two years, something like that now, two or three years. So you're probably about three years off of it tasting like normal tea? Yeah, it's all right. It's all right. And today, because this is very,

because we're in London, there was no normal milk. There was oat milk or soya. So I had to go out and she said, because otherwise the normal milk just sits in the fridge, and I was like, it's all right. I'll try the soya. And actually, it's fine.

Well, there you go. It's fine. It's fine, but... It's fine. But you prefer a cow milk? I do. See, this is the thing. When I watched Simon M. Still's carnage,

brilliant film, whatever. Well, by the end of the first week of being vegan, I was crying for cheese. I was really... I mean, I was crying. I found out my friend Sean in France, and I said, I've got to have some cheese, mate.

And he went, come on, you've done your bit. He said, you've been veggie 40 years, you don't drive, you don't have kids. I thought, yes, of course. I don't have any fucking, what do they call it? Kids, carbon footprint. Carbon footprint. Miniscule.

So... He gave me permission to eat cheese. That's nice. I remember you said earlier that your friend was going to come back, your friend from France. But this is going to be... I feel like it's coming in the dessert course, maybe. Your friend from France and the blueberries.

Yeah, we saw them and heard about the blueberries. A pin put in both of them. But before we move on to that, we should probably dig into exactly how you like your tea. Oh, I like my tea. Milk him first. What milk? Are we talking semi-skimmed? Semi-skimmed. Semi-skimmed milk, tea bag in,

then the hot water. Now, I imagine throughout your life you've come across a lot of pushback with that. A lot of people disagreeing with that order of doing things. Can you talk about what that's been like for you? Well... It's been quite distressing at times.

Because when you know you're right, you know you're right. But actually, whenever I make somebody a cup of tea, without a doubt, people say, this is such a good cup of tea. And I say milk him first. Because you can judge it.

But it just looks like, you know, sort of watered-down milk. But it isn't. There's a tea bag in there. And you've just got to wait. And then you give it a squeeze, and then suddenly it's this beautiful honey colour. You know. And sometime, in the morning,

I will have a tiny bit of sugar. A teaspoon. So it's like a quarter of a teaspoon, even less than that of sugar. I did have some man saying to me once, some bloke, said to me, oh, you can't possibly taste that. I'll tap some fuck off.

He said, you're not in my mouth. LAUGHTER Who's that? Who's telling you you can't taste it? I don't know. It's just some bloke. It's always some bloke. Sorry, lads. It's always some bloke. Oh, you can't. Fuck off.

You didn't have as refined a palette as you. You can pick up on that sort of stuff. Exactly. That's what I should have said, rather than... No, I think yours probably got to the point a lot quicker. Yeah. Fuck you, you're not in my mouth. Exactly. And you never will be. LAUGHTER

I went on Room 101 with Heston Blumenthal, was one of the other guests. Oh, yeah. And he tried to put people who put milk in first in Room 101. Because, you know, what does he do? He puts porridge in with, what? A Brussels Sprout

and charges people £30 for the pleasure. So he can do one. LAUGHTER Also, that's so weird, because, like, his whole thing is about doing things in a different way and reinventing stuff. Yeah, I was going off the confuse.

I was surprised. Yeah. And surely, when you put in the milk in first, you're basically the Heston Blumenthal of tea, right? Absolutely. Thank you for what you're doing. You're being the innovator. Yeah. He's a scientist, right? He prides himself on being, like, sciency, and it sounds like what you've done

is more scientifically, you're spreading the milk out immediately. Absolutely. You're not just dumping the milk on the top and it's all sitting on the top. And if somebody makes me a cup of tea and they put the milk in last, I don't complain. No? I don't say to them,

well, you know, this isn't as delicious but thank you very much. Do you have a favourite mug that you have your tea in? Ah, now, well, I do have, I've got a couple of whoppers. That's the actress said to the bishop. So I do like a big mug. Like, first thing in the morning,

well, I've got a nice, a tall glass, like a pint glass, but it's not like an old-fashioned pint glass with a handle. It's quite a nice posh, tall pint glass. And I just, I mean, it must have been about 15 years ago

because I'd always make myself a mug of tea in the morning. You drink that, 10 minutes later, you want another mug of tea, you know? And I thought, what am I doing? I could just have a pint of tea, and then I haven't got to go keep making another mug of tea.

Yeah. So that's what I do. I have a pint of tea in the morning. So is that what you want for your dream meal, is a pint of tea? Oh, that's a really good idea. But in this nice long glass, because it looks nice, you know? It's not like an old Guinness glass or anything like that. No.

I'm not necessarily one of these people, but there are people who definitely have a problem with seeing, like, tea in a see-through. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's lovely. I've also got little mugs,

little glass mugs. It reminds me my auntinelli, who's my godmother, who's in her mid-90s now. When I was a kid, she had little see-through glasses, the mugs. And I love it. It sort of reminds me

of my childhood, that happy time being with my lovely auntinelli. So, I mean, what's the problem with seeing a drink? Also, surely it works better because you can see what's going on. You can see the aquarium, right?

You can see it all working away, and you can see when it's ready. That's it. Because sometimes, if you're a bit tired, you might have left the bag in. And that's always a nightmare when it's being left in a mug. Because you only know halfway down, and it's getting stronger,

but you still can't work out why. And then your lip hits the tea bag. But if it's in a glass, you'd be able to... You'd be able to see it. What? Don't look at me, Kathy. I've got no idea what he's on about.

They trick people back in the day. Oh, yeah. They put a coin in there. I think it was the Navy. Oh, okay. Explain what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. I think they would go into pubs

and talk to these young guys, distract them, chuck a coin in their beer, then they drink it, get down, and then pick up the coin and go, what's this? And then smack them over the head and take them into the Navy. But I think it was because you had to... Pin them to be in the Navy? Yeah.

There's something like that. I don't understand. See, I used to understand this. Now James has explained it. I now don't understand it anymore. It was on How To. It was a show where we were kids. Did you watch How To?

Oh, I watched How. Vorderman was on it. No, I was the original... Fred Dynidge was also on How To. And then there was another guy called Gareth, I think, and Vorderman. Those three. But they talked about that with the Navy and the coin.

And they did a little act out of it. So that's how I know about that. Is that why you get putotankered sometimes when they've got glass bottoms? So you can check to see if the coin's in there before you drink the beer so you don't get constipated. I just don't understand what the coin's doing. So if you met an Admiral from the Navy

and he's one grot or whatever it was back then, they would be like, oh, then you are now in the Navy. So if they were drinking the beer, they got down and said, what's this? And then they'd pick it up and hold it up and they would take that as them paying to get in the Navy.

And then smack him over the head, apparently, and take him away, which wanted to do that in the first place. But I just remember them smacking him over the head when they were acting out on How To. Gareth got smacked over the head by Fred, I think. But that was what they would explain him was why they have glass bottoms. Oh, there you go.

Those kind of glasses. So, Kate's point, you'd be able to see it in your teeth. If anyone was trying to get you in the Navy. Right. That's what I'm saying. Okay. Correct reaction from Kathy.

She put her glasses on, looking at her phone. Yes. Your dream dessert. Yes. Now, we know that there's blueberries in it. We know that a man from France, or who lives in France, is at least going to be involved in this.

Yes, he's a man from Liverpool, but he lives in France. He's called Peter. And he's my French, Sean's husband. And he, well, first time I met Peter, he tried to ingratiate himself by making a strawberry pavlova

for pudding. And I said, this is very lovely. Thank you so much. But I can't eat strawberries because of the seeds. And you can't get seeds out of a strawberry, can you? No, and those little buckets, they're the worst.

Strawberry seeds, raspberry seeds, they're the nasty culprits. So anyway, so the next time he made a pavlova with blueberries, it was out of this world. It was just incredible.

And he doesn't use, he uses mascarpone. So it's not too, because I don't like things too sweet or too sort of creamy. And he uses golden caster sugar. So the pavlova is sort of brownie colour,

the meringue. And it's really chewy. It's just lovely. And then what else does he use? The filling is mascarpone, fromage frais. Oh, God. He's got a little bit of sourness as well to it.

Yeah, and a teaspoon of vanilla extract. So again, the fromage frais, it's sort of, then it's not too creamy or cloying. And then he, you know, boils up some blueberries with some sugar and then he sieves them so you get all that

juice. And he pours the juice all over the meringue. And with some fresh strawberries on top. And it's just amazing. Wow. Have we had pavlova before, isn't it? I feel like we must have. We must have done.

But like, I think people have chosen eaten mess before. Some people think that eating mess is the correct answer. But I would rather have this. Pete's pavlova. Yeah, yeah. I love how every course is named after someone.

Yeah, but I love how this isn't getting the word continental in there. He literally lived in France. It's Liverpool pavlova. Yeah, Pete's pavlova. Would you like some of my continental potatoes that I invented in Islington? Oh, it's delicious. And I attempted

to make it. Well, I'm not a great pudding maker. I get a bit nervous because it is sort of more maths involved. When there's puddings, but I did make it. I had my great friend, a little name drop, my great friend, Marie-Anne Jean-Baptiste, who's a brilliant actress.

She lives in America now. She got her kids and they came over one summer a few years ago to see me. And I said, oh, I've made a blueberry pavlova. And Marie-Anne said, oh, we don't really, we're not really

sweet people. We don't really eat that much sweets. And I was like, oh, well, and I put it out. Her and her two daughters fucking demolished it. I mean, they could not stop eating it. And they were, they had to hold the hands up.

Yeah. This is incredible. Great. Yeah, that must have felt good. It did, actually. I felt very proud of Pete. Even though it was me that made it. He'd been proud of you. He was. He was. So, yeah. That's good. A magic dessert that makes

people who don't say they don't eat sweets just go crazy for sugar. They went crazy for it. It was wonderful. We didn't even have separate plates. They just we just all let it with a spoon. How it should be. Do you put anything on the pavlova or is it all in there?

So would you pour any cream on top of it or anything? No, no, because you've got your filling. And then no, does he put cream on top? No, but no, just the juice of the blueberries, the compote. Is that what it's called? And then the blueberries on top of that. But you don't

hold back on the mascarpone or the fromage frais. Because it's not cream, you can go a bit full of with it, you know. And a bit more in there. That sounds so good. I'll be honest, when you were talking about crying for cheese earlier, I thought

maybe it was going to be a cheese board situation. Because you like cheese, but also you'd already said there were going to be blueberries coming up, so I think James was a bit more relaxed about that. Yeah, I had that in my head the whole way. I was like, okay, we're going to Blueberry Town at the end of this. Blueberries have popped up anywhere else in the menu, then I would have started to worry.

Well, I'm going to read your menu back to you now. See how you feel about it. Okay. You would like still water, whatever's on offer. Not tap. Not tap. Problems with bread, you would like cranks, whole meal with olive spread. Starter, a tomato tart from the Ivy. Pasta, spaghetti pesto.

Main course, pan fried sea bass in chili oil made by yourself with calf's continental potatoes. Side dish and medley of steamed broccoli, spinach and peas. Drink a pint of tea made by yourself, milk first in a pint glass, in a glass pint glass, so you don't join the navy.

And dessert, Pete's Blueberry Pavlova. Yes. That all sounds fantastic. It does. Very homemade as well. This is all stuff that you do or your friend does. Absolutely. I prefer it. I've got the Ivy tart,

but I do eat out occasionally, but I'm usually disappointed. So I do prefer homemade cooking. Do you think that comes from being a veggie for so long, so having, like you said, there was only like a couple of places you could eat out

when you started being a veggie? I suppose, although everybody has veggie choices now, or they are vegan choices, but I still have to always say no seeds, hold the seeds. I don't know. I think it's just like just go out less. And I was never really into that

thing of going out for a meal, you know, like it was a big deal. I mean, I'll do lunch. I'll meet a pal for lunch. I like a little lunch. But dinner, I just, you know, I just want to be home

and I want to be cosy and I love other people's cooking, but particularly my friend Peter, he's a fantastic cook. He sounds it. I mean, he's asked when Sean's going to get the ump now, cos he's like, I cook as well, which he does. He does. He's a lovely cook, but Peter,

there's just, no one's, someone's just got it, just got the knack. And he loves doing it, cos he finds it very, very relaxing. I find it relaxing, but I find the thought of doing it stressful. I'm having James and his girlfriend over to our house in a few weeks. Oh, pressure. I'm already

worried about it, Cathy, I'll be honest. I'm already panicking about what I'm going to do. No. You know what you should do? A little bit of fried seed bass. Capsicum and carrot potatoes. And some steamed greens. Maybe. The one green I forgot was Cavaloneiro. Oh yeah, that's good.

Oh, I love it. I love cabbage. Yeah. You know, and any greens, I like kale. It would be so funny if my girlfriend and I went to Ed's house for dinner and he made us the dream menu of one of the guests. I didn't even mention it.

Yes. I would be like, Ed, is this a Caffee Bird's dream menu? No? Well, if not mine, you should choose somebody's dream menu. No, I'm going to do yours, Cathy. They're going to get a pint of tea. When the part of tea comes out, then I'll start going like...

The pint of tea is for the morning, though. So it's not really, you know, for your dinner. I think that's a bit much. You can have it wherever you want in your dream meal. You can have a cigarette if you want at some point. Oh, definitely. We'll have that afterwards. Yeah, yeah.

You can smoke in the dream restaurant as well. It's the dream restaurant, you know. Really? It's your dream restaurant. We can get rid of all seeds within a 30-mile radius if you want. A little bit of wacky-backy. Lovely.

We could sort that out for you for sure. Fabulous. You wouldn't be the first person to put that on their dream menu. You could have some out together. Oh, of course. Well, there you go. I feel like we've added some nice little twists to the menu there.

I thought I'd chuck the smoking option in there. I remember when we were coming back from 8 out of 10 cats does countdown. It's the train journey from Manchester all the way to London. The whole way you were like, I need to get off this train. I got to get out.

As soon as we're pulling into Houston I've got to go. I've got to get me sick of you. So definitely at the end of the meal I've got to have a smoke. Well, that used to be the thing that you do at the end of a meal. You know, before

I came nearly falling back on this train. But it used to be a little... The men would go off and smoke cigars and the ladies would... What would they do, Nick? They'd talk about the men. They used to knit. They'd talk about the men.

God, what a life. I'm so glad. I think this is a good generation. Well, you know, I'm old enough to be your mother. You, the peri, but... And Ben, who's here. Like a sort of ghost.

Sort of presence. Anyway, I'm just waffling now. Well, because we have already started to get the wacky-backy out. That's what's happened. Kathy can't remember what she's saying. We'll go before it really kicks in.

Thank you so much for coming to the Dream Restaurant, Kathy. Oh, I've loved it. There we are. The wonderful Kathy Burke, James. Worth the wait. What a wonderful episode. Absolutely. What a lovely and genuinely funny

and warm presence she was in the studio, James. Absolutely. A pleasure to be around. A great menu. When Kathy said pescatarian, I was like, are we going to have crab sticks coming up here? Yeah, and very good

that we didn't pick cup of tea. There was some chat about maybe having cup of tea as a secret ingredient, linking it to Kevin and Perry. Mr. Paterson gave him a cup of tea. Perry, he would say. Thank you, Mr. Paterson. We actually did well to not fanboy as well, James.

We did do well. Normally, we absolutely spill. I'll tell you why I didn't fanboy. It was because Kathy told me that once she did a show, she was directing it. And no one was fanboy or doing any of that with her.

So she kind of gave them a thank you, Mr. Paterson, out of nowhere one day. So I thought with Kathy, if you don't do it, she might do faking Mrs. Paterson. Maybe we'll get all the stuff. She did say thank you at one point in the sort of sing-song Perry way.

A little bit. Which was exciting. But no, brilliant menu. No crab sticks. Do go and listen to Kathy's podcast where there's a will, there's a wake. Yes, not only me. Dawn French is the first episode.

Alex, Diane Morgan, Stuart Lee. I can't wait to listen to it. Even if I'm not on it. Hopefully, you've got to get on it before it's too late. It's real. Maybe on my deathbed, I'll do it. They could do one of them one day.

That would be quite the episode. Someone's like, would they be able to turn that down if a celeb was on their deathbed and contacted Kathy and said, I just really would love to do it if I could go. Can they say no to that?

Probably not. A few foodie thank yous, James. Foodie thank you. We've been sent some lovely stuff. Thank you so much to Jubal beers. I'm hearing about this for the first time. Benito loves it. Because Benito loves it and he's done the thing

where they've been contacting Benito to say, we'd love to send you guys some beers. He's going, yes. Earlier on, he lied to Ed about having something he said. He said, I love the peach beer, Ed. And Ed was like, oh, I think I would love that.

He went, oh yeah, I drank it all. And then he admitted, I haven't drunk it all. I do have it. I was just telling you that because I didn't want you to drink my peach beer. Yeah, he's got them in his secret little fridge next to his desk. He opens it up, gives himself a beer.

Every time he finishes an edit, cracks open a peach beer. Benito. So thank you very much, Jubal. And thank you very much to you, the listener, for listening again. Yes, thank you very much to you, the listener, for listening again.

Bye-bye. Bye. Hello, it's me, Amy Glendale. You might remember me from the best ever episode of Off Menu, where I spoke to my mum and asked her about seaweed on mashed potato,

and our relationship's never been the same since. And I am joined by... Me, Ian Smith. I would probably go bread. I'm not going to spoil in case... Get him on, James and Ed, but we're here, sneaking in to your podcast experience to tell you about a new podcast

that we're doing. It's about all the new stories that we've missed out from the North, because look, we're two Northerners. Sure, but we've been living in London for a long time. The new stories are funny. Quite a lot of them crimes.

It's all kicking off. And that's a new podcast called Northern News, we'd love you to listen to. Maybe we'll get my mum on. Get Glendale's mum on every episode. That's Northern News. When's it out, Ian? It's already out now, Amy! Probably a backlog you've left it so late!