Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 202: Jimi Famurewa

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

Author, food critic and Masterchef star Jimi Famurewa is judging the Dream Restaurant this week. Fingers crossed for a good review.Jimi Famurewa’s book ‘Settlers: Journeys Through the Food, Faith and Culture of Black African London’ is out now in paperback, published by Bloomsbury Continuum. Buy it here.Follow Jimi on Twitter @Jimfam and Instagram @jimfamishedRecorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography and design) and Amy Browne (illustrations).Follow Off Menu on Twitter and Instagram: @offmenuofficial.And go to our website www.offmenupodcast.co.uk for a list of restaurants recommended on the show.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, it's Ed and James from Off Menu here. Well, I hate to do this, but Nishkumas got a new standup special coming out, James. Yeah, listen, he's our friend. Yeah. So even if this was awful, we'd have to plug it. Yeah. Here's the problem. He sent it to me.

He asked me, can you watch it, just give me any notes on the edit. Yeah. Just, you know, that'd be really helpful. He knew it was already perfect. He sent it to me to make me feel inadequate. And it worked. Because the whole show was immaculate. I'm very annoyed that he did that to me, but I'm very excited for the public to see this special.

Well, he didn't ask me for notes, because he doesn't value my opinions. I'm happy to say it's probably quite bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you and Nish, you've known each other for longer than I've known even of you. And so he already knows that he's in your head. Also, I was there when it was recorded.

You watched it. Yeah, it is really good. So we knew that it all had got here. This is what you get if you ask us to plug your special mesh. Your power, your control is on sky comedy on demand from August 25th. Fuck you, Nish. T. T.

Welcome to the off menu podcast, shaken up the champagne of conversation, taking the sharp knife of humour, whipping it along the top of the champagne, taking off the cork of bad times and pouring ourselves a nice, bubbly glass of podcast. So the break good times come on. That's it, gamble, I'm James A. Castor, we own a dream restaurant and we invite a guest Nice bubbly glass of podcast. So the break good times come on. That's it, Gamble, I'm James A. Castor. We own a dream restaurant and we invite a guest in every single week and ask them their favorite ever start a main course dessert,

side dish and drink, not in that order. And this week our guest is Jimmy Famborewa. Yes, wonderful food critic, brilliant writer. You've seen him as a judge on MasterChef, I'm sure. Jimmy has a new book out. Setlers, journeys through the food, faith and culture of black African London. That's out now. And we will ask Jimmy about it during the podcast as well. But I can't wait for this menu James. This is exciting. If you if you are not listening to this episode with pen and paper,

you're probably sure so that you can write down all the recommendations. Surely this guy is going to have him coming up the wazoo. He knows his stuff, his wazoo is overflowing with wzx. Yeah, you would imagine. Yes. So I'm quite excited to hear all these recommendations. Is that how wazoo's work? Does so much stuff in the wazoo that it starts to spill out? Yeah, I think so.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think that makes the sound wazoo as it all comes out. Woo! Yeah, yeah, wazoo, yeah, you out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can. You can. Yeah, you can. Yeah.

But hey, listen, we love Jimmy Femme Rayward. But if Jimmy says the secret ingredient, an ingredient which we have deemed to be unacceptable, we will be forced to kick him out of the dream restaurant. And this week the secret ingredient is cauliflower rice. I can't see Jimmy saying this. Surely, it wouldn't say cauliflower rice. I only know about cauliflower rice because I saw Ed do a routine about it when it was a fad about having a greater cauliflower and how long that takes.

So basically someone decided that rice wasn't good for you. And people started coming up with alternatives. And you do use that to make pizza, bases and stuff. Orrid, just using cauliflower in the worst way as possible. Yeah. Hopefully, Jimmy should use it. Just say it, but like, unless there's some new brilliant trendy high-end restaurant that's using cauliflower rice in an amazing way, you know, we'll be happy to hear about that

and we're excited, but that will be the last thing he says on the off-many podcast. Yeah, yeah. Or have to kick him out. Yeah. Fingers crossed that won't happen. And that suggestion came from Hanna Sinclair. Hanna Sinclair, she just don't care. Apart from, if it's called a flower rice.

Yeah, then she cares, she's got an opinion on that. Hanna-Sing Claire really do care. Yeah, Hanna-Sing Claire, Hanna-Duke-Care. This is the off menu menu of Jimmy Fammeraywa. Welcome Jimmy to the Dream Restaurant. Thanks for having me. Welcome Jimmy Fammeraywa to the Dream Restaurant. Thanks for having me. Welcome Jimmy Faman Ray. Well, to the Dream Restaurant, we're going to be

it's about to give us some time. Oh wow, it's happening. It's really happening. It's great to be here. I was happy with my energy then. Yeah, I think so. I think it was really good. Yeah, well done, you know.

I am impressed that this Jeannie pronounced my name so well as well to be honest. Yes, very much. Well, he's been practicing it because it plays perfectly into his speech impediment. Well, in the place, it doesn't play perfectly. Yeah, it has havoc on my right. Right. Like it was like I deliberately soft, soft, soft, ours a lot of the time.

So an R and a W together quite quickly means that whatever, yeah, I'm taking a run up to that. I mean, I'm taking a run up to that. I'm really focused on the fight reveal. And this point is not even my real name. It's been a really long slow burn bit to get to this point and wind you up. Like, yeah, Jimmy Smith, we're. Yeah. Yeah.

It's not often we get a food critic in the dream restaurant. Is it not? No, the third one. Really? Yeah. In, like, however many. Yeah. I guess that is.

Yeah. Five years. Five years. Five years. Five years. Five years. Five years. Five years.

Five years. Five years. Five years. Five years. Five years. Five years. Five years. Five years.

Five years. Five years. Five years. Five years. Five years. That would really play to tie if I was like, oh, really obvious. Like just kind of, you know, almost doing my own annotations at my, yeah, but no, it's lovely to be here. You're one of the more positive ones. Like, I think that, yeah, people do say that. Like, someone was like, waiting to get the train the other day and this woman was like, I love how kind you are. I was like, yeah, I don't know if that's what they want for me, but I do try to be.

I think it would be disingenuous if it was like some kind of like cackling, like villainous person, because I guess I'm sort of quite a genial, positive person in real life. So yeah, probably I probably wouldn't be able to keep it up if I was like, you know, being really out of order, but yeah, yeah. Especially if you're like friendly to everyone when you go into the restaurant and then they read a bad review and they're like, you seem so happy when he was here. Well, there is always an element of that.

Like you kind of, and I guess everyone has this when I go to a restaurant and it's like, how is it going? And it's like, how honest are you to that question? Like they don't want you to be honest. It's like being asked, how are you, isn't it? Are you honest? It's kind of like, and so yeah, I am always conscious of that,

that you don't want to seem like you're just like being duplicitous. And like, yeah, this is great, and then you're just like ripping them to shreds afterwards. But yeah, you must find this, and when you're both jamming our faces with food on TV, when you're in British menu, very British menu. I get to be the positive one now, because I'm not the food professional, so I get to absolutely just gobble it all up. And then I try not to be mean, because also they're all brilliant professional chefs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the base level is excellent.

Yeah. And then it works, it's from there, really. So yeah, I have a great time doing it, but I do, I eat everything. Do you know, you don't pace yourself? No, I don't know. Yeah, I always intend to pace myself and you're like, right, we've got a big day of eating here. Let's not go crazy.

And then suddenly, if it's really delicious, you can't stop yourself, like how do you stop yourself? And also the hunger kind of comes in strange bursts, doesn't it? Because sometimes you'll just have tiny little portions of things and then quite a big pudding will come out and you'll just like gorge yourself mad. It's a different stomach. It's yeah, exactly. The pudding stomach, of course. Yeah, I'm still not greater than. It's

always a strange thing to have got to the end of one of those days and you're sort of like reeling and you've been eating this amazing complex, sophisticated, interesting food. And I do have like at the end of the day, quite, you know, sometimes it'll just be like a pronounced craving for like a blueberry muffin from Starbucks or something like that. Like I sort of want to like return back to the reality and like, yeah. I always think MasterChef is even more nerve-wracking as from like a judge perspective for you guys because you've got to watch them bring it through the door and then bring it to the table which terrifies me every time I see that. They're like shaking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is it is strange and I guess that is that comes back

to the balance of you know being positive and trying to be kind and not to come. I just always try to actually remember that it is just like a person, all the mechanics of TV. Obviously you're there to be critical, to a degree and you're there to have a bar of excellence or whatever it may be. But when people come in, quite often they've got like, you know, an ice pack on from where they've burnt their hand,

like they're literally like trembling, covered in like stains of food and stuff. And it's like, you just sort of want to just be like, it's okay, you're going to be all right. But yeah, that is, that is kind of, it is pretty brutal. And judging someone face to face a very different thing, like I think, you know, to go back to our point about the reviews, like I definitely had that experience of like when someone brings their food up to you and you sort of say something even mildly negative about the presentation, their just faces just drop and it is like, it's pretty, yeah, it's pretty tough, but I don't know. I think everybody, it's strange, isn't it? We all watch those shows because we want people to be kind of

like judged in a certain way. But yeah, I think there's a line isn't there. I can just leave that to Tom Kerridge. Yeah, leave it to Kerridge. It's like, yeah, you just get to be like me like that was great. Can I have another? Yeah. She loves it. Yeah. Yeah. Any word from Eddie's is looking to play. Yeah. He's just, yeah. It can be weird because I think sometimes, especially when I first started being a critic,

I've written reviews. You think of criticism as being like, you know, what's his name? Antoni, go in Ratter-2 and that to be a good critic is to be exceptionally harsh. But I wonder if maybe sort of post-pandemic as well, that's kind of like fading away. Yeah, and sort of pantovillani is not really what people want. But you know, you need to kind of, don't know, people do kind of like seeing somebody,

people like the catastrophe and things going wrong, the jeopardy, the peril, those things, we kind of need to sort of gesture towards that a little bit sometimes. And I think often that the reviewer nowadays becomes the thing as well, like a product in another themselves at the, and so then they have to have a persona and I think a lot of the time it's easier just to be the mean one. Yeah, yeah. And so then they have to have a persona and I think a lot of the time it's easier just to be the mean one Yeah, one up and people get annoyed about it. It's not fun to be a villain, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh massively Yeah, it feels like the thing that people think of when they think of critics, right?

It's like that you're devastating and that you come in and you know the Imperial march is playing as you walk in It's like come on. I'm going to really sort of kick the shit out of this soup flake. But yeah, quite often, you're just maintaining a sense of proportion and like, levity. But then, yeah, we all do sit there at home, don't we? And we're like, you know, we can literally be arm in like a bag of crisps or whatever and like, just like, order to deliver room. We're like, oh, he's messed it up. Oh, look at that. Yeah, sauce is a bit thin, isn't it?

A bit thin. Yeah, oh, no, he's forgotten it. Like, it's kind of part of it, is that you can be the kind of armchair expert in that way. But, yeah, no, it's good fun. It's such a, for a part, I don't know about you, Ed, but it's such an absurd thing to be doing, isn't it?

Like, to be just like such a lucky thing to be doing? Like eating like fantastically and going like, yeah, I like that. Yeah, more please. I've only ever been to the banquet and you have to write down your favourite dish at the end. Of course, there's loads of people there and you know, you go around the table and no one's written the same thing a lot of the time. And you're like, oh, yeah, it's not actually that one is the best. Yeah yeah yeah it just down to everyone going their individual thing. Yeah. Tricks just better at writing.

She's no more one. Yeah yeah. Just describe food. Yeah yeah yeah. I think it's a fair point but I think that there is that thing of um you get to almost like set the standard in some ways. And I think sometimes if I'm writing a review or if I'm describing something on MasterChef and I'm not necessarily liked it, and I'm aware that that's quite subjective, but it is almost like you are a kind of like, I don't know, food lawyer or something.

You're having to like convince other people that like you need to make a convincing argument basically. So that even if people disagree with you, they can kind of see where you're coming from. And yeah, you're right. It's so, so subjective. And so, yeah, it's all about like who can convince the other person. But I've definitely had it where I've been like, that's amazing. And then the other critics, like that is terrible. I think like, you know, particularly like being relatively new to this world, like, as I was like a few years,

but you kind of are a bit like questioning maybe, like what you think and you don't want to get things wrong, but I think you sort of come to realize that, you know, your perspective and your like, approach to things has like value, doesn't it? And I think that that is kind of like a really sort of positive thing. And I think you can see it in the way that these shows

are cast, there's different sorts of chefs, different sorts of cuisine, and there's a kind of a broader span of opinions as well, and it's not just like this isn't fancy French food, so therefore it's terrible, like, to that mean. Also, speaking of right, and you got your new book out, Zettlers. Yes, Jenny's through the food, faith and culture of Black African London. Yes, so it's not completely about food, but there's a lot of food in there. And it's kind of a bit of a memoir, bit of social history.

And it's kind of like about the sort of broad culture that raised me really and sort of that I grew up in, Nigerian background. But then also there's a lot of crossover with people of Ghanaian heritage, people of Syrianian, people of like other parts across the African continent. And so I just kind of like, it split up into different chapters, like some looking at food, some looking at things like religion, some looking at education. And I kind of tell a little bit of my own story

and experience of that specific world. And like, you know, the importance that faith held in like my mum's eyes as I was growing up and things like that. And I kind of just joined the dots and contextualize it, like go back through history, a lot of research. I mean, I wish I'd picked something

more straightforward. I definitely thought that midway through right in it. But no, I think also what I also wanted it to feel like was quite alive and quite fun and vibrant and reflect. I think if you live in any kind of like, I mean, you could say, like, maybe sit around the world, but certainly in the UK and certainly in London, there's African communities that we've all kind of seen and like, oh, that bingo hall is now like a Penta

Costal church. Like that's interesting. And you go like somewhere like Ridley Road Market and you kind of get that kind of explosion of like color and life and, you know, the different things that are being sold there. And you think, oh, what are the roots of that? And there's all these fascinating little kind of historical nuggets

that I kind of sort out. I talked about my own experience of them. And I just kind of try to like join the dots in a hopefully quite entertaining way. It is a thing about how positive you are. I was noticing it, well, you're talking, you smile while you talk, no matter what you're talking about.

And I was like, I don't think I ever do that. No, no, no, you don't. Yeah, I don't know you. I mean, it's totally not. The opposite, actually, you're telling like a really like, a story in Scaling. And I want to listen to what you were saying. Yeah, but I was thinking. But it's just the smile as well. It's really such a happy gift.

Just trying to like apply it to like, if I was like smile as well. I was like, oh, he's such a happy guy. Just trying to let it fly it to life, if I was like a policeman or something. Just grinning. And I'm afraid we are going to have to arrest him. I take a big, okay, okay, this is a Jimmy. Wait a minute. Will you talk to me in the car on the way to the station? Don't worry, I'll keep grinning.

Maybe that is a bit of a cultural thing as well. Like, I think of my mum who is a real formidable character, like, you know, tiny, very driven woman. But she's also hilarious as well. And like, you know, sort of like piss-taking is kind of like a family love language or whatever. Like, it is that. It is kind of in there where maybe part of it

does come from relatively difficult circumstances at times and immigrants and you're sort of struggling a little bit, but there is always this kind of life and not taking things too seriously and sort of having a little bit of a grin on your face. But yeah, like, yeah, maybe maybe it is one of those things that I've kind of probably, it's probably MasterChef that just made me be like, if I just keep smiling, they won't hear me telling them that they're, well, we always start with still a sparkling water. I'm going to go sparkling. Okay.

And I always think, like, because obviously I go to a lot of restaurants in my job, and people are always like still-or-sparkling, still-or-sparkling. And I'm a bit of a flitter, really. You're like, I'll have still, I'll have sparkling. But I do like sparkling, because it feels like a little, like a little treat, like a little bit of fun, little fun, sort of party bubbles and all that. And yeah, Walter is like an interesting one because I will normally just say tap, to be honest,

very pointedly, and then you worry that the person you're with is like, oh, got ourselves a cheap scheme. Like, there is that thing, it feels weirdly loaded. And I don't know if you've had this at certain restaurants where you say tap, and it's almost like they hauled the tap tap, well they keep it away from you, you don't get a bottle for yourself. Like it's like they want to shame you into like, you get a tiny little bite. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just like like, yeah, okay tap, yeah, yeah, we'll

see, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not getting the jug yourself, no, we're going to like, yeah, so yeah, but I think sparkling, yeah a bit of ice, a bit of lemon in there sometimes as well, or just like, yeah, it feels, it feels in its own way like the kind of thing that I wouldn't necessarily always have in at home, whereas still water is, you know. You've got to come in at the taps. Got it coming out the taps mate.

So, so yeah, it feels like a tree puts you in that kind of mindset, that little bit of effervescence, yeah. Do you think, because I think when I'm judging Great Rich Menu, I will have sparkling water quite often. I feel like it's more of a palette cleanser in between different people's dishes. Yes, that's a very good point. It cleans the mouth. Yeah, sort of carbonated quality, just kind of, yeah, probably, yeah, there probably is something in that.

Yeah, but I don't know about you, I like a lot of water on those days as well, like, you know, because they're always topping up your glass. Just like putting it in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and all the butter. Yeah. Yeah, that's where, crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I'm pro-soul, I'm massively pro-soul. I'm pro-soul, so you have to get me on.

Yeah. But if you didn't have the water, you'd be, it's good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. If I'm really sort. But if you didn't have the water, you'd be sweet. Yeah. If I'm really sort of given the choice, I really think about it. I'll kind of have whatever's there, but yeah, fizzy, fizzy baby. Pop-Rombs all bread. Pop-Rombs all bread.

Jimmy Femme Raywa. Pop-Rombs all bread. Oh, wow. Immaculate pronunciation again. Well, having to do the pop-Rombs all bread. Well, how did the pop-Rombs all bread? He did it. I know.

I felt it. Now it's my finest hour. It's done now. That was going to be the tense one. Yeah. Is there build up as well where it's kind of like, I've changed anything, talking from the beginning. No, this one I was like, I call myself, as soon as I thought to myself, you're going to have to do pop-up until bread soon. Just do it straight away. Do it right now. I think, I know, I don going to have to be a pop-up on top of bread soon. I thought, just do it straight away. Do it right now.

I think, I know, I don't know if I should say it. Well, I don't think he basically said at the time that like Jamie Oliver, who kind of know a bit that he was, the pop-up on Zaw bread was a moment for him, as an experience as well. Like maybe the, you know, the genie that he kind of was not prepared for pop-up on Zaw bread, maybe. Yeah, I might even ask him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was Yeah, he was prepared because he chose popodoms and then some people, because we recorded at his place and some people brought in a selection of different problems. Oh my God.

Wow. Well, I've not got, I've not got anything in my bag. I'm afraid to present to you, but to return to the question, it's got to be popodons. It's got to be popodons. Yeah, I feel almost similarly to the Spock and Water thing, there is a feeling of, I don't know, like it's special, like, bread is great, obviously sour dough is on every restaurant, menu with a kind of fancy whipped butter next to it. I'm seeing a lot of, there's a lot of like glazed dinner rolls at the moment as well. Is that the new, that's the new brand of it?

The new thing mate, yeah, just a little, that's what you got me here now. Yeah, the main thing, we want to, you know, the bread forecast. Is there certain stuff that you just get very tired of where you're like, that's where the guard, if they've got trouble on this again, on this menu? Yeah, it does happen where, and I think actually it can probably seem quite unfair to like restaurants as like they, you know, there are these things that become real obsessions of chefs and then like, you know,

people like me that write about food just kind of lose it out of all proportion because there's like another like wild garlic mayo. And there is a lot of, but I guess it's like anything, isn't it? There's trends and there's things that really bubble up and then suddenly everyone will be like, absolutely not making it.

We only need to look back through food history, your recent food history to see. But yeah, it can just get a little bit much at times. Yeah. When do you think popping candy is going to be over? I think I've talked about this on like the first episode of the pop show. Yeah, they do. Popping candy. And every time you see someone on a TV show, popping candy and something, someone will eat it and go, oh, this chef's got such a sense of humour. Don't talk about it. This chef needs to grow up.

Yeah, there's a whole, there's a whole family of those though, aren't there? Where it's kind of like nostalgia. But yeah, uh, pop-doms, absolutely pop-doms. Yeah, I just think there's, there's just something very fun about them. And I always feel like when we order like an Indian takeaway, I've got a weirdly specific thing. Like we'll have the pop-it-oms at the start. But I like if there's a few left afterwards, just as a little, you know, when you finish, just a kind of, just a pick at the end, like, you know, that's kind of part of it. And there's just a few

little shards to like kicking about, just something to do with your hands. Yeah, definitely pop-it-oms, all the dips, mango chutney, all that. Is there a place where like, does the best poppodons? Yes, there's a couple that I can think of, sort of both ends of the spectrum. So there's one near me in Southeast London, Babur, got shout them out, absolutely legendary Indian restaurants, been going like over 30 years now. And their pop-a-doms are great. Really good mango chutney with like,

proper big pieces of mango in it, bit spice in it, not that real kind of glue piece, synthetic. Which has its place to be fair. Like, I've definitely had it with my friends where, and this, I don't know, this was like, a bit of a light bulb moment, because they were like, oh yeah, I don't know, this was like a bit of a light bulb moment because they were like, oh yeah, I wanna go for a curry,

I wanna go for a curry and I'm suggesting all these like, oh yeah, let's go to gunpowder, let's go to like, you know, all these restaurants that kind of contemporary takes on a specific region or whatever, but they absolutely wanted the old school very basic, and it's kind of a, I feel like those memories and those associations are so powerful for people, and they don't really want it mucked around with, and there's a restaurant chapter in settlers, actually, where I talk

about the increased prominence of West African influence food and African influence food and that authenticity question. And I do think, yeah, we all have these things where we just don't want it mucked around with and people have it with things like fish and chips or whatever. It's like, no, I do not want it elevated. I want it. I want it slightly rubbish. Like, yeah, what I'm going to do is do. Because there's a few, there's a few of those restaurants now in London, like West African, influenced fine diner. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I absolutely love by the graph with Afro-Francise.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can imagine if you're like used to using something like, you just tiny little portion, you just, yeah. Yeah, and then of course you've got the people that are perhaps more used to the food, being like, where's the rest of the whole this? How much for a bottle of Guinness? So, yeah, pop-a-doms, Baba is really good. And then it's a sort of almost undercut what I've been saying. There's a place called Bibby in London, which is like really good, high-end Indian. And they do, like, these cheese pop-a-doms that are essentially giant quavas. So yeah,

I would have like, you know, maybe half and half, maybe some babur ones and then some fancy cheese papad on the side as well. I went to Bibli and a few weeks ago. Oh, oh, my god, it's really good, isn't it? Oh, it's so good. It's really good, isn't it? Great cocktails as well. Good cocktails, lovely. Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and that to me is like the best expression of that because he's somebody that had worked on a lot of different restaurants, almost kind of like cooking at other people's cuisines.

And Bibby is him kind of applying that technique to this food that he clearly has like a real sort of like, you know, personal connection to as well. Like, yeah, it's really good. Would massively recommend it. Yeah. Well, let's get into your dream menu proper. Yeah. Oh my God. The dream start. Here we go. Dream start. And you must get so bored of people saying, can I slightly bend the rules? But can I slightly bend the rules? And like, I want to have a trio of small sandwiches, like slider-sized,

like so it's still a starter, but there's this three very specific sort of almost slider, two or three bite- size sandwiches that I want. One of them is the McRoll Peder from Mangal2, which they did it throughout the pandemic, like when it was kind of locked down, you can only do takeaway. And this is a restaurant in Dahlston, like very acclaimed Turkish inspired restaurant, run by the two sons of the original owner,

so they've kind of modernised it. Amazing, pillowy, turquish bread, beautiful, e-chard piece of Macro, a dill mayo in there as well, outrageously good. And I think it's one of those things that you can't get it anymore, like they bring it to the Ksnilly, but it's got that kind of scarcity, specialness about it. So a little one of those, a little Dexter cheeseburger from the Plim Soul, it's another restaurant in London in Finnsbury Park. The greatest burger I've ever had, I think.

Almost feels a little bit like it's got, and I could just be imagining this, but it's got like a wimpy quality to it. There's something quite nostalgic about the burger sauce in there as well, it's a smash burger, so it's got the crackly edges and just really gorgeous. And I think also as a reviewer, I reviewed the first kitchen residency that they did.

And I remember the burger, we didn't even order it at first and then we ordered it and I tried it. And I think it's almost like one of those things that reminds me to have the courage of your convictions, because I was like, I feel like this is like a crazily good burger, but what can be applied to like all sorts of different types of reviewing is you're doing it in this vacuum, like you don't know what other people think of it. And so it is this kind of leap of faith. And so I remember being like, oh no, I'm going to really make a big deal of that burger because I think it was delicious,

but I'm not sure. And then it became this huge thing. And like, you know, like everyone was talking about the burger. So I think that's quite a nice one with a professional link. And then the final one is a teeny tiny KFC, Zinger Tower burger, which I've just got a very specific nostalgia for. I used to work at various places in Bluewater, the giant shopping centre in Kent. And I'd work at like, I worked at Ted Baker for a little bit. I've said previously in like, written like in pieces of writing that it was like Glen Gary Glen Ross or something like that. We're all like, we've got to shift these store cards and I kind of really hated it. But I would go for a KFC after.

There's something about the hash brown and the cheese. There's just the sort of wrongness to it that I just absolutely love. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would be my order. Yeah. I went through a stage when I was like, I don't know,

18 going to KFC every Friday, with my friend Graham, Northampton KFC, they always had stream sports or snowboarding in the TV. We watched that. I always get as a tower burger meal. And it was a revelation that the cheese, the sauce and the hash bear. Yeah, it's the source of kind of cell-cery type. Yeah, and then obviously the actual chicken, yeah, it's got the zing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're seeing it in there, you get the zing, yeah. They're making it a bit spiky.

They're spiky, zing. I never was going to order anything else. Yeah, yeah. It just, I don't really know how they arrived at it. Like, you know, a lot of the fast food items, like, they're inspired by something. Oh, it's know, a lot of the fast food items, like, they're inspired by something. Oh, it's kind of, it's the Texan one or whatever, but like, knock off from another. Yeah, yeah. But like, how did a hash brown and a slice of cheese and

a spicy sauce get in there? Like, but yeah, those, and so, and I, and I do feel like I really love, like sort of mini burgers and like tiny kind of things that kind of invite you to eat quite a few of them. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like it's almost like a challenge. Yeah. Just like, like a play of them. But yeah, three of those, those three quite sort of personally meaningful. Great. I'm so happy that Mangal II has got a shout out.

Yes. Never been there. And the plimps, I've still not been to the plimps, but I went when it was four legs at the... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Compton arms. Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. Yeah, really, really good. Yeah. And the burger's the one thing, or one of a couple of things that never leaves the menu and everything else changes. It's such a good burger. It's kind of hard to... I don't know. It's weird, isn't it? Because burgers are like pizza where there's all these endless debates around the best. And again, to go back to our point, it can just be incredibly subjective.

Can't it? And people are like, that's not a good burger like this is. But yeah, I would, I would defy anyone to try that burger and not just what's the bun? It's like your standard glossy. Is it Brioche? I'm pretty sure. Hmm.

Brioche. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no it's more of a kind of potato roll. I went through a stage with Mangal too where I'd go, have a great meal, come back pissed and book it for three weeks later. That is a really good sign. I've definitely sat at certain restaurant tables and particularly when it's very good and there's a bit of hype around it, maybe you're like, let's book again, like when you're at the table, like that is kind of really the ultimate sign. Or even if you don't book, like I do think, and I don't know, like when you're reviewing, you can get really like lost in the weeds, like it's just good, I'm sure this is good,

like everyone, like it's quite often the people I go with, they're having a great time. Yeah, like, you know, drinking loads of wine, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is amazing. And so you have to be that kind of, I don't know, that sort of wine, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's amazing. And so you have to be that kind of, I don't know, that sort of slightly cold dial, I was gonna say shark-like, but maybe that's bad.

But yeah, you sort of have to be like, it's just actually good. But one of the things that I always come back to is, if you're already planning a return visit and trying to think of reasons or all people that you'd love to take there. That's a pretty good time. Are we seeing some loop holes for your dream main course?

I think my main course is hopefully not going to need any loop holes or bits of rule bending. And having sort of been in a bit more of a restaurant space, I think this one's going to be a bit more linked to home. And it's a Nigerian dish. It's basically stewed beans, which does not sound that appetizing. The Eurobud name for it is Erwa Rirul. I think I've got that right. Like, Nigerian, Eurobud people, like sort of like...

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wait, that's a real one. The menu back in the air. James, that's Favourite. Yeah, Ewa Riru. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Favourite.

Ewa Riru. Jimmy Famera was Ewa Riru. You've got to call it that as well. Yeah, Cuffo Famera was Ewa Riru. But yeah, it's amazing. And I think it's one of those things. You probably would have, if you've eaten some West African food

or people that listen, they would have encountered a dish like it. Look at it, it's getting down. And the bineos just written it down up the float to the dancing arm, fuck, ton of maths that you've got. Oh my god, it really is. Look, I've thought it delivered.

If you've had, as a Gnane dish, red red, which is like a similar kind of bean dish, but it's really cooked down. Like you cut them in a pressure cooker. It's these beans and the stew in there, tomato, peppers, stew, onions. It's normally got some heat going through it, some scotch bonnet, and you have that with fried plantain. And it is one of those things that probably because,

and this is related to writing the book and seeking to understand my culture because you know, you're having been born in this country and grown up here. I've got this kind of really powerful heritage and it's very present in my life, but it feels inaccessible in some ways and you're constantly being told that you're not really an Igerian, but I think in terms of food, it really manifests because these are dishes that I mean, I could maybe try them,

but I just don't that I could get even close to my mum cooking them. They're almost a bit like refried beans, like if you had them, kind of like Mexican refried beans, and they've just got such like depth and waves of flavour. It's so comforting. It's basically like cooked down to like a mush, not the most photogenic of dishes, but yeah, we're kind of like caramelized, like sweetened fried plantain on the side as well. It is such a good combo, and it is the thing that I really, and you know, I guess through like the pandemic and stuff,

we had an opportunity to all realize like, oh well, I could never eat this dish again because the person, you know, my supplier, I, my mum is not around, like, you know, so I really, I really, it really clarified like what you really wanted, didn't it, and what you really sort of loved. Yeah, I absolutely love it.

It's such a simple dish, but one that I feel like, you know, dream restaurant, that'd be the kind of thing I'd go for. And maybe that tells its own story in terms of being a restaurant critic and having all these quite fancy foods, that's the thing I want. Would you ever have it with Jolof rice? Well, yeah, so Jolof would probably,

if there was like a leaderboard of like, you know, the candidates for this main course, Jolof would probably have been in the conversation, but some people do it, like, there is a kind of amazing chaos to like, a Nigerian spread, like a buffet buffet like my mum makes like a roast dinner And it's got like you're like hang on none of this goes together What the hell like and there's an element of like you know there's potatoes there's rice

There's plantain. There's like a few different types of meat. There's another kind of rice So you could kind of do it. I wouldn't mix the two I would do I kind of and maybe that's one of my sort of weird rules that I'm just like, I just want to like appreciate the beans. I want to have rice. Like Joloff is a beautiful thing, but it's kind of like a separate thing. And yeah, Joloff is, it's crazy, the degree to which it's, you know, a, a, a, a, which I mentioned in settlers. They've got Joloff rice on their menu and it's a two Michelin style, you know, restaurant now. It's kind of crazy

to have something that you grew up eating suddenly become part of the kind of cultural conversations and stuff. And it's just more portion of that. Yeah, yeah. It's a very school portion. Did you go? Have you been? I've been in a couple of times. Yeah, yeah. I love it. I've not been to the new space, but I went in a couple of times. And James is a lot, because they do a they do an amazing plantain dish as well, don't they? With the Scotch the Scotch bonnet powder. Yeah, the raspberry. Yeah. Yeah. I went I went there. The first time we went there, there was a couple in there and they're very fancy couple and then their child mind

attend up halfway through with their five-year-old daughter and dropped her off. And you just saw the waitress like, start's like, well, she'd be eating anything. And then she'll have the same as that. She went, I don't know if she'll like it. I'm not sure we can make everything else. I'm not sure we can make everything else. I mean, bring her whatever. It's like tasting when you're at a plantain.

I mean, that stuff on the top is super fire. Yeah, yeah. This kid immediately in tears. She went bright red. Oh, God. Yeah, no, oh, yeah, those beans, man, they are really, really good. The main reason I bought Jollafrys and Ed and Ben, no, is because along with anything on the podcast has been debate as to what the best Jollafrys is.

Oh, God, yeah. Now, obviously, people usually say the one that they were brought up on, like they had, but you're a food critic. So we might get the definitive answer here, and I know that people will still be saying he's going to be biased and saying I do it. Just get to end the Joloph Wars right here. But, you know, we've not had a food critic on before, we can weigh in on his debate.

I genuinely do believe that all jawloff is good. I feel like the, you know, the, the jostling and the arguing over like different nations, jawloff. But, you know, and again, I probably will be biased, but I do feel like, I wouldn't say it's better, but all I will say is that Nigerian jawloff is the one that I know, the one that I've kind of, that I would cook, like the one that I've like eaten, the most.

But I genuinely do feel that like to kind of pit one against the other, it's to, you know, miss the point of Joloph, it's a good man. I'll get. Why are we arguing about, why are we arguing over which Joloph's better? Yeah. We could be eating Joloph. And so yeah, and I think it's funny. It's a funny one, Jolof, right?

I said it because I think everyone has a slightly different view of it, but it's fascinating to introduce it to people that haven't really eaten it all their lives, and they're like, this is amazing. Yeah. And so yeah, I feel like I just try to keep that in mind, really. But yeah, sorry to not be able to call the truth that you wanted on the Joll of Hours.

Yeah, or I should have just said, yeah, Nigerians are best. I'm just going to say, I don't know what they're talking about. That's not Joll of. I think the thing that's probably true is that Nigerians are probably like the loudest in terms of saying that like, out things are the best.

That tracks this kind of like how I'd sort of behave. I'd never really had Jollofa for four, but there's a food stall in a market near me called Jollof Mama. And I went there and got a portion of that. I mean, that was a big portion. Oh, I had the afternoon of my life sitting there in this huge bowl of Jollofa rice. And I just had to sit in the park for like a year

and a half and let it all digest. I think the other thing that's really fascinating about a lot of African restaurants in particular and like West African restaurants is that you get given enough food not just for that meal time like there's such a sophisticated doggy bag operation that a lot of like Nigerian restaurants like it's to feed you like for the next few days and like into the week like so I kind of love that attitude and that That feels really recognizable to me. I'd go around to like my aunties and uncles or whatever I go to my mum's now and it's like you know, I mean my mum I don't know anyone that like drives around with like you know

Like stacks of tupperware and they're like boot just in case so that they can kind of divvy up The portions of rice that they're ferrying around most of southeast London. But yeah, no, it's a, it's a beautiful thing. I don't know, I guess sometimes there can be a little bit of a frustration, not frustration, but it's almost like a victim of its own success in that it appears on every West African influence menu. It's the thing that everyone knows, it's the thing that everyone talks about. And so there are other dishes,'s the thing that everyone knows. It's the thing that everyone talks about. And so there are other dishes and like the repertoire that other people don't necessarily

know as much, that I don't even know as much. And I think it's that thing when something's almost like a victim of its own success. But I think it's a really exciting time for like not just African influence food, but like Caribbean influence food. And I think people are really discovering like the links between the two.

And there's a broader appreciation of like different ways of doing things. And yeah, just kind of, it goes back to that point of maybe feeling like, oh wow, like there were rules of, oh, this is what a restaurant critic sort of looks like or acts like or knows about. And they know all about like fancy French food.

And so it's kind of, it's really fun to be on MasterChef and someone's cooking something that's West African in origin, and I can hold forth on it in a way that perhaps my other co-judges aren't. And it's a really exciting time to be like, oh wow, that's really cool. This is something that I know about, and it's becoming part of like the kind of shared culture.

So they did, they did need that. Your dream side dish, Jim. Oh, wow. Okay. So this is returning a little bit to the maverick of the first dish. I'm going to keep it West African and Nigerian specifically, and I'm gonna keep it quite spicy as well. I'm going to have some beef suya, this is my side dish.

It's probably more of a snack or a starter, but it's definitely not a main, and I think because the main that I've chosen, the beans, it's quite kind of simple, it's quite restrained, there's no meat on it. The suya for those that do not know is a kind of like, addictively fiery, barbecued beef that's kind of like traditionally sold by like roadside and kind of like little kind of outdoor grills in Nigeria. It's not, it's northern Nigerian in origin and it's in this dry spice rub, which is called

Yaji, specifically, or suya spice. And that's got peanuts in it, so it's kind of mixed with like ground peanuts with kind of dried peppers, like chili peppers, got some ginger in there. And it is like the most addictive thing you have ever had in your life. Genuinely, it's out of control. There's something about the combination of like sweet roasted peanuts and kind of quite intense heat with like charred strips of like a beef or you can have it with chicken.

You get it in newspaper when you go to, if you have it traditionally in like Nigeria and it's kind of, you know, it's quite primal. You're ripping it out of the paper with your hands, a cold beer as well. And I think that'll be a good little match up. And it's, in it's the sort of thing, it is one of my absolute favourite Nigerian dishes. And I think I've right in the book that the first time I tried it actually was some that had been smuggled into the country by a relative who had frozen it. I still don't really know how they did it. And frozen it in a tin or something, hidden it in their bag so that escaped detection and then got it to the UK and then it kind

of defrosted and then they sort of like gave it to us. And I mean, you know, the fact that I'm still eating this. Yeah, it's essentially been in someone's suit, but yeah, it's amazing. And it's a really, really good dish. Yeah, it sounds great, even if it hasn't been mulled into the country. Yeah, there's really, really good. I think you can get it all over. And there's a place that delivers nationally, actually, called Alaji Suya, which I would massively recommend. They're in Peckham, and they've got a couple of locations,

but they've got a main one in Peckham. And they're really, really good. They use really tender meat, they're yadji, their spices, like they give you an extra little baggie of it for the hardcore. And I would also recommend Chisharoo, which is like quite an acclaimed restaurant that's in London by a chef called Jocquet, Bacarée.

And she does like, really nice bavet steak like with the spicy on top. So that's like a little sort of like edging towards bouginess, fudge and of it, but it's still as delicious. We were going to go there, weren't we? Yeah, before COVID, we booked it six times. Yeah, I think we were going to go there and then it and then everything. You should go. She's amazing. She's such a good cook. And like, it's funny, because I've eaten seer on TV shows and also like spicy dishes as well and it is a weird thing isn't it where I feel like I do like spice but I don't know if it likes me

as much as I like it like there's a really growing body of evidence of me just like sweating and just looking like what are you doing like you Like, you know, I don't know, like, and it was funny, like, growing up because a lot of my friends would have that thing of wanting to get the highest curry and, you know, when Nando's kind of arrived, and I'd be sort of like ribbed for like, oh, if I went full, if I think go extra hot at Nando's,

and I think growing up with food that could be quite hot and with like a lot of spice and stuff. I just didn't really understand that kind of real. Oh God, you've got to get that hot. It's what? It's good. But like, but yeah, I don't know how are you guys with? Are you, are you, I love it? I love it. Absolutely. Love it. But I wouldn't, it's certainly not for any sort of masculine proofries. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Genuinely love. As always, there's always a flavour there. Yeah. And they're married together brilliant, delicious. If there's no flavour, it's just really hot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just kind of like a blunt heat. I like it to take me to the absolute edge. Oh, man. Yeah. When I start sweating and getting tingled, it's like that. Yeah, yeah. I think that's part of it, isn't it? It's almost like physical. Like, there's another, like, other end of the spectrum in terms of cuisine, but high,

and there's a few, like, speed boat bar. I don't know if you've been there. Yeah, that's another way. So I went, I went and then the next week I went back with him because the one dish at speed boat bar where they were like, do you like hot food? Like, yes. And it came and it got me so close to the edge. Oh, man. But I know when I've gone over the edge because I started

here cupping. Right. And I just started to get the Chinese sausage. Chinese sausage and the mustard green salad. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's amazing. Yeah. The prawns of each whole stuff there, off the chain. Yeah. I really want those again. It's so good. I remember after, we were talking about them the other day, and it was like the food there. And then I remember the drink that I had, the me and Jamie Dmitri ordered, and it was like that, it was that beer.

Jelly beer. Jelly beer, everybody. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Frozen beer. Yes. That had like ginger and honey in it. Yeah. Oh, the hell.

Oh, baby. Like that, that's a dangerous drink. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got, go up in that down on the juice. I was all ready to be angry at that restaurant because it used to be the Taiwanese rice. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I loved.

It's the bow guys did. Yeah, which is like my most beautiful restaurant I've ever seen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's zoo was zoo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's zoo was zoo. Yeah, yeah. It was just a stunning view. But that is everything is like,

proper sort of pulse pounding. I think when you do it, you're like, because I plaza cow gang, the kind of precursor to that, which is in arcade, below centre point. And that was my, like, you know, and they bring out little sort of, like, afterwards, you have these little, like, milk, like, almost like, little shots of, like,

pink milk that are kind of meant to, like, tame the spice to them. But, you know, when you're just like, I want more and people look at you, and they're like, you sure you want more, mate. Well, sort of, like, like, that's a good idea. Yeah, but yeah, it's so addictive and yeah, like, Sueya definitely ticks that box for me. It's just such a, it's such a rush. It's kind of like, you know, to the point where there is a little bit of a thing in Nigeria, especially in like, like, Nigerian culture, whether it's a bit like,

and my mum's a little bit like, what is in that stuff? Like, she finds it a little bit kind of, she's not little bit like, what is in that stuff? She finds it a little bit, kind of, she's not sure about it. She's suspicious, and there's all these rumors about various kind of, you know, I think them, I mean, I did write a piece about it. It's very sprue, it's like, it being almost like a bit of a natural viagra type thing,

like there's kind of like weird sort of, yeah, I did things in there. So just be aware of that before you have something. So where can you order this from? Yeah. Also, those of you who've been mis-started by someone who was eating the cereal and got a bone at that. That's the person who started that move.

Yeah, must be the cereal. So natural white anger guys. I'm not that I'm not as a rocker. Not that I'm an unstoppable pervert. Yeah. It was the sewer. You'd actually have any of that. What?

So this place in Peckham's, they deliver it like cooked, is it all done? Yeah, well, it's almost like jerky, but it's... Yeah, well, there is one that's more jerky light, and that's called kileshi, and that's kind of dried almost like a built-on with the kind of penati spice to it. The peck and place you can either get it like warm to go or they do a version that you can like heat up at home or they could yeah they ship it like so far. Yeah it's really good. A J Rayner, my master chef, a colleague, I got him to go there and he absolutely loved it. Like, parked up in his car outside eating sea with a little baggy of extra yadding, which I kind of really enjoyed that mental image of him.

Just kind of. I think he might have been in a zip car, which makes it even fun for some reason. So he's stressed ever involved in that when you're a food critic and you recommend a place to another food critic? Oh, God, yeah, massively. Yeah, yeah. And I think any recommendation, not just to like food critics, but you do, and you must feel it, mustn't you? And I think there's an element of like, if they don't like this as well, maybe we're done. Like, you know, there is a strange thing, isn't there? You kind of, because it's, it's such a great feeling when someone gets it and they get the same response. But I think we've all had that thing of like, oh God, you got to go there or you hear like, they're like, sure, and they had a bad experience for whatever, for whatever reason. But yeah, they're,

there's definitely pronounced like if I recommended somewhere to like another food critic. But it's very, I don't know, it's rare that you'd kind of nudge someone to go somewhere. Like it can be very like, what did you think of that? Oh, you like that, like you know, like in a nice way, but there is that kind of slight caginous edging towards kind of competitiveness sometimes where it's kind of like, you keep your cards

quite close to your chest, you're not necessarily recommending places. See, I'm the complete opposite whenever I recommend somewhere, I'll be like, it's the best meal you keep your cards quite close to your chest you're not necessarily recommending places. See I'm the complete opposite whenever I recommend somewhere I'll be like it's the best meal I've ever had so there's no way they're ever going to enjoy it. Yeah always good to build it up to like an absurd degree so this. I need Ed to send me a list of places. I need to go to some new places. Yeah. So if you're at the point Ed you can send me a list of recommendations. So the perception would be that you're like eating out all the time, but you're not, right? You're not. Go through stages a bit a lot, but like Ed is really good at finding new places going there. And like, you can like describe a restaurant in London without saying a name and he'll

know what it is. Where is like, I basically have a handful of places, whatever anyone, you know, ask me for recommendations. I'm like, here's five places and they're all places that Ed told me about. And they tend to be the ones that, yeah, I'll end up going like there's about, I don't know, four places are really like local to me.

Yeah. And I just tend to go to them on a bit of a loop. I need to break, I'm at the point now, one need to break out of that. But I think that's good. As somebody that maybe doesn't, and maybe this is part of the job because you're always kind of like moving ever forward

and onto the next thing, like, the ones that I really love and really cherish are the ones that you can always go back to and kind of like, that's how you build up, like proper love for a place where you're like, all they've've got that special on. All that that tasted slightly different today. All that was a bit hotter this week or whatever and you kind of, and also that kind of certainty of like, oh my god, I'm in this restaurant and everything's going to be all right. Yeah, so I think there's, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that just going to the same places.

So you're fine, carry on. Yeah, you'll be all right right, but like you know, especially doing this pod here loads of recommendations You know, I've got to go this place out. I can't remember all of it But I remember the edge of it to every single one of them. Yep, I've been that So I'm like, right if the effect can send me a list That'll be where the use is Your dream drink, Jimmy. Oh, my dream drink. Oh, it's a fascinating one, this.

The people mostly pick booze, whether they not. Yeah. Does it tend to get stuck in? It does. It does. Mostly. I don't know if it's maybe part of the picking a real dish of my childhood as a main, or like that nostalgia, but I was just thinking soft drinks, like a lot of the time.

The traditional, obvious way to go to match up with that main inside would be a super malt, which is, I'm sure you've had previously, but it's a real obsession, particularly in West Africa. And it's weird, because it's like Danish, like brood in Denmark. And I think it was originally designed for like, the armed forces in Nigeria, like Nigerian soldiers, to kind of, because it was a way to like, quickly get them like, be vitamins and kind of, you know,

like all this stuff. And so it's slightly strange. It's not like Viagra as well, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, that guy again is like, I'll care for the supermult guys. I've got a phone or a camera. I'm like, I'm not sure if it's the things

you're eating or drinking. But yeah, so that would be the obvious way to go. But I'm going to go for another soft drink, which I just kind of have a weird obsession with and love and a nostalgia for. And it is an orangeina, an ice cold orangeina. I don't know what it is, like my, I had a real sort of beloved uncle who sadly is no longer with us, but you would always get us like like

orangeina. And maybe it's the advert, shake the bottle, wake the taste, was it or something like that? The, the, the, the bottle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it, is it, is it shake the bottle, wake the taste? Is it shake the bottom? Wait, wait, wait, wait, is it what I said about self-heavigate? My mantra. But yeah, just something about, just something about an ice cold or an Gina, the fact that it had the illusion in my mind and my kind of youthful, like sort of 90s kid mind of like, oh, this is really fresh. It's got bits in it and it's like, but obviously. It's a bottle. Yeah, and the bottle. Yeah, the bottle. Like an orange for God's sake.

An orange. This is really good for me. Oh, God. Good say it again. Say it, shake the bottle. Shake the bottle. Wait the taste. Imagine if that was right. I should be the shake the bottle. Wait the taste. Calling the orange in-na-hard like that. So yeah, I love orangey-na. And I kind of almost want to like, you know,

I don't know that, you know, those specific circumstances where you're like desperate for like a drink. It's really hot. And then, yeah, an ice cold orangey-na. Yeah, so I feel like that would be a decent matchup with the, with the mains. Yeah. So interestingly, people do pick boots a lot of the time. You're our third episode of

the day. No one's picked boots. No one's picked boots today. Yeah. All picked soft drinks. All picked soft drinks that have in glass bottles. Wow. Oh, God. What's going on? It's a hot day. It's a hot day. Yeah. You've got us in this hermit as well. Just anything cold really. Anything cold? I was hoping for it as well, because you was saying childhood thing. You've got a few things that are from Nigeria.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And today we've had someone picked Nigerian fan-tour. Oh, OK. Yeah. In the past bottles. Some of the pits Pepsi from Uganda. Uganda. Wow.

Amazing bottle. And I was like, come on. If this is free, then we're on. In one day, African fighters explore our bottles. It's a weird is-hack trick. I mean, I do like Nigerian Fanta, or African Fanta, as you'd probably call it. Well, let me Google it today.

It was saying it's not specifically Nigerian phanta. Yeah, oh, okay. Yeah. All right, I'll just own the kind of like Nigerian exceptionalism then. Adolf is the best. And the phanta is ours. I'm going to think. Get that out of here.

I'm not sure if we had a run gene. Have you had it? Alex Horn of Carsmiles to Chfah and Gina was his water. Of course he did. Yeah, of course he did. Yeah, now I love a run gene. Yeah, even like the name, and I've got to say,

to go back to the Nigerian fan to thing, I don't really do masses of sweet drinks. There's no, he's like, I just don't really, I don't know, I kind of find it fascinating people that have a diet coke every day. Like, I didn't like no judgment, but I'm just a bit like, oh my God, like yeah, like I just can't really do it anymore.

And that was, that was the notion of drinking water in my childhood, was like, what the hell are you doing? Don't you drink your water? Just like put some squash in it for God's sake, like it. For God's sake, I would never really drink water and I feel like, I don't know that weird way where you kind of betray your younger self as you kind of grow older. Because I'm all about just water now, really.

All like teas and coffees. And so, yeah, in terms of the dream restaurant and the dream meal, an orangeina would feel, there'd be something maybe slightly illicit about it, maybe even more so than booze because there's obviously a lot of wine and drink around. Do you have wine on the Great British menu? No, only if we only have booze if the chef brings it with the dish. Right, right, right.

So, I have like a cocktail with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If they really work out. That old classic. Yeah. And I've cocktail with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If they really work out that old classic. Yeah, I've brought your shot as well. Yeah, it's like, I'm a good idea. Or you do it like Spencer Metzger from the Ritzu brought in like an 80 quid bottle of boredom with the main course.

All right, yeah, this guy means business. I mean, cause it got through to the banquet when it's the BBC, you're in charge of the budget and it was shit while. Test go by. Yeah, so I'm charge of the budget, and it was shit-wifed. LAUGHTER Test go, mate. Yeah. Yeah, so I feel like maybe the lack of a boozy option for my drink choice probably is related to work, because there is a lot of more wine and a cocktail, maybe, and whatever, and I think, yeah, there's something quite nice

about this, like, kind of... ...soft drink, like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially to cut through the nice about this. Yeah, I'm kind of soft drink like here. Yeah. Yeah. Especially to cut through the spice of the kind of. Yeah, I think that work. Yeah, the other thing that was in the running, but I don't know if this would have really gone,

is you mentioned Bauer earlier, but they're peanut milk. Oh my God, I love it. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Really good. And the peanut milk. Really, really good. Do they only do it in the cafe,

or do they do it everywhere now? I thought they did it in every one, but it could be wrong. They might have shuffled the pack. They definitely do it at the, in the cafe. It's really good. And that would have been a nice little sort of echo of the nuts, the peanuts in the suya as well.

So, you know, that'd be my other option. And it's so good. Because it's kind of a drink that's basically a sort of pre-pudding as well, isn't it? It's kind of like this is really good stuff. No, talking my language. Yeah. One of the best phrases in the initial language. Pre-pudding. Well, let's get on to your dessert. Yeah.

Well, I go, what? I do what? I think can allow, you know, people have more than one drink in the past. If you want on a dinner, you should drink, but you want a peanut milk as the bridge between your main course and your pudding. Oh my God. You can have it. I've just remembered that I was going to ask for more rule breaking at the end. Yeah, that's it.

That's it. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be after the pudding. Because you let people have a coffee. Yeah. Yeah. Come on. And it's a very specific kind of coffee. Okay, so my pudding, I would like a ice cream Sunday, and I want it made with two very specific types of kind of soft serve ice cream. One is the toasted rice gelato from a place called Superiority Burger. Have you been there in New York? They've moved into bigger premises now and it's a kind of vegetarian burger place run by a guy called Brooks Headley who

used to be in bands like punk bands and stuff it's like, but worked as a pastry chef, amazing tiny little place, real sort of like punk spirit to it, they'd have all these kind of changing veg-based dishes and also like the greatest gelato you've ever had in your life. I went to New York in 2019, went there, and yeah, I have this toasted rice one that was just unbelievable.

It was like rice crispy milk, like cereal milk, like, but kind of, you know, even better than that sound. So that was really good. So with that, in my ice cream sundae, and then also a Wendy's Frosty, which I, like America was like a really formative, like, I don't know, like place or like, I went, I would go there quite a lot as a kid because I've got family, like uncles really formative, like I don't know like place or like I went I would go there

quite a lot as a kid because I've got family like uncles and aunties dotted around like the states like place like Miami and place like that. And so I really remember going to America and just I was obsessed with America as a lot of kind of 90s children were and I think maybe even more so as a kind of immigrant kid you're sort of oh wow, America's so cool and having relatives in America was this really big thing. And it just completely lived up to like my insane building it up and promise. And I just really remember going to Wendy's and it's like, oh my god, their burgers are square. Like, what?

Like, it just does nothing to it. And it's like, they're square burgers. And having a frosty witch, which I was always fascinated that it wasn't, there wasn't a flavor. It was just the frosty was the frosty. And I think it's a bit of chocolate and a bit of vanilla. Slightly off-putting, almost like off gray color, but just so nice, so sort of creamy and like delicate. So I'd have an ice cream sundae with those two mixed in.

And I'd just love a sundae. I love the idea of- But sauce or cream? Yeah, I'm gonna have some sauce. I'm gonna have some sort of hot fudge sauce maybe on top and then maybe we'll crumble a bit the Marksman's brown butter custard tart in there. We will have a little bit of happy endings ice cream

sundae crumbled in there. The multi one, which I think is like genuinely one of the most perfect kind of puddings that you can get. So yeah, a little bit of crunch and then these two soft serve ice creams and then just roll over and fall asleep. Yeah, yeah. Sounds like a good son. I mean, also, that's the second self-designed Sunday we've had today. Oh, really? What is going on, Sarah? It's Matt today.

And the same person shouted out, the frosty. Did they? Yeah. Which is the first time that I said, but we've never had it before, and never had it mentioned, two in a row. He's probably still out there. Yeah, yeah, there. He's still

like, say frosty. And then, and then, yeah, loads of ours next to W's as well. Yeah, yeah, I mean, as much as you can. Wendy's frosty, yeah, there's some W's and I was for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. minute. Yeah, yeah, on this menu. But I mean, it sounds delicious. And nicely happy endings get a shout out. That is, I had that one that I was from sandwich just recently. I think we had to forcibly stop ourselves from buying them. Me and my wife, you know when you're just a bit like, this is getting a little bit out of hand,

were you both independently bring one home as a tree? Yeah. I got happy endings. I got them too. Yeah, but they're so good. I mean, they're all great. And Terry, who runs happy endings, is awesome. She's like a good thing as well. But I think that's, it's amazing that you can just, obviously, in quite fancy shops, but you can just buy that in a shop, or something that kind of perfect and beautifully put together. They're really good. Yeah, they got a standard Victoria Park and sometimes

I sometimes go on walks and then end up in Victoria Park and I find myself naturally walking towards it. How you putting it, it's going to be open, but then any time it's closed, I always think that's for the best. it's going to be open, but then any time it's closed, always think that's for the best. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It needs to be so saved from yourself. It can't actually not have one in ages, because I think it did just get a little bit out of hand when we were having them, like really, really regularly. When you have to falsibly bad yourself from having something like it's, I don't know, is it good? Is it bad? It's a bummer to them.

I think it is. Yeah, and I'm, is it bad? It's a bummer to them. I think it is. Yeah, I'm all about puddings. It's a strange thing, and this is kind of a bit of a food world thing, where everyone's kind of quite often always tripping over themselves to tell you how little of a sweet tooth they've got and how much they don't really like puddings. And it's always seen as this like mark of sophistication, isn't it? Like, it's like, oh, I don't really like puddings. It's like, come on. Yeah. Come on. Pudding's a great. Come on. A bunch of different. You know, all that. I don't have a sweet tooth. And you're right.

When every time that we've had that phrase, there's many times, many times, I don't have a sweet tooth. And they always say it like, yeah, that's a good thing or something. Or that makes them interested. Yeah. Can't make you interested. Most people say it who come on in. So you're not more exciting if you're an adult, you still goes out the way they have an ice cream sandwich. Yeah, it happens to go on a walk to Victoria Park every single day. It's the same spot. My feet go where they go.

Oh, no, no, no. Oh, back here again. Okay, there you go. It's good. It's closed. I've tried Jimmy open the shutters, it's a different calling. But yeah, Jimmy does that so Okay. It's good. It's closed. I'm trying Jimmy, I put the shutters, it's if I'm calling. But yeah, Jimmy does that so much. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

Yeah. Yeah, I say I had to forcibly stop myself from buying them. There was a bad scene with some Jimmy D'Ope and shutters. That was a restraining. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, you have a coffee order at the end of this. Oh, yes, my coffee order. So the coffee I'm gonna get and I wonder if you've had this from a place called Forza win, which is in South London, Campbell

Well, it's had in his hands. He's loved it so much. And is the custodial is it that was all it you thought It's a star though. Yes, oh my god. It is a shot of espresso with they make their own custard basically, like a frozen custard type thing, and it is unbelievable. It is out of control. The combo of amazing, I always quite like the thought of an affogato, and I think, oh yeah, to go back to that idea of, oh no, I always quite like the thought of like an afogato and I think, oh, yeah, like, you know, to go back to that idea of, oh, no, I don't really do puddings. Like, it feels a little bit like the kind of, you know, interesting artist choice, like, oh, an afogato.

But they're always slightly disappointed me, but a castardo feels like what an afogato should be. Like, it's like amazingly creamy, sweet, rounded, custard with this like beautiful intense shot of coffee in it. And it's so nice. It almost tastes like eggnog or something like that. And yes, so that'll be my little, well, we're going there now. Yeah, it's absolutely inspired. Yeah. Yeah. It was. Forzawin. Forzawin's up on the roof, which is very good. But yeah, Forts and wind, which is now in Campbellwell, used to be in Peckham and a custodough there, one of their custodos, just a kind of cap, this insane meal for a man

that already eats too much. I suppose I must be, but sometimes I'm like, am I a good eater? I'll be midway through like a meal and I'll be like, I'm already full. And I'm like, I should probably be a better eater in this. Yeah, but it's what you do at that point that makes you a good eater on that. That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, some, some people stop. Yeah, some people would stop. Yeah, yeah, some people would stop. You can't stop. You got a Sunday in a castardo to have. But yeah, castardo, oh, so good. people would stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can't stop. You can Dr. Trio, small sandwiches. You want the matkroll from a mango too. The dexter cheeseburger from the plimpsol and a KFC using a tamarburger, all nice and small sliders size.

Main. I was like, yeah, yeah, bang on. I said that right. Well, Riveur. Yeah. We've come a lot. Let's hear it again. It will.

Oh, it will. Yeah, and it's a Kaffo Fama Ray was a while river. What's the first thing? Kofo. Kofo Fama Ray was in... Kofo Fama Ray was in a river. Oh, fuck. It's a genuinely hard one.

I'm not doing this for last. Kofo Fama Ray was a while river. Yeah! I don't know. I'm not doing this for last. Coffee family Ray was Iwo Rio. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Caramel ice plant. That's good. Side dish, beef suya, drink ice cold, Iwo and Gina, and then a peanut milk from Bound to bridge over into our dessert, which is an ice cream sundae, and has toasted roast gelato from Superior Eberger. Wendy's frosty, and then Hot Fudge source, a marksman, ground butter, custard tart, crumbled over it, and happy ending's ice cream sandwich, the mulled one jammed in there, and then at the end of all that, the Castado from Forza

Win. Yes, amazing. That's pretty outstanding. Oh my God. That is good. I mean, I'm really pleased with that. Absolutely, definitely having the Castado. We got it.

But I really want beef suya.ya. I've never had that before. I mean, here in that back, are you thinking like, yes, that would be a matter of what a night that I'd be? Yeah, I'm pretty pleased with that. I've got to say, you know, thank you for allowing me the rule, Ben, and on the starters. I just, I can even see those little sandwiches, you know, I mean, I'm like really envisage it and I just think it would be a great, great way to kick it all off. Maybe, maybe organise like a fundraising charity dinner or something where you get all those guys in the sandwich. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what have you got us here for Jimmy?

Right. He's gonna do him really small. All right. Can we raise his money for? I don't know yet. Well, what that has? No, I'm really, really pleased with that. Thank you for indulging me. That was, oh my God, that's made me quite hungry. Maybe I am a good eater after all. Well, we expect a good review.

Thank you, Jimmy. Thank you. There we are. As expected, brilliant episode, brilliant menu. Lovely man. Benito is so happy that the Castardo got a shout out. It's nice to see Benito as happy as this after an episode. Yeah, never happened before. Never happened that it's been, well, he's never been happy up on episode, but also never has there been a shout out for something that he loves as much. Benito's face after every episode is very much the face of a man who's thinking, how am I supposed to edit that shit? Yeah, he's figuring out in his head, how many of these will have to make, which means I won't have to make him anymore.

But yeah, you go. I mean, also thank you to Jimmy for all your free recommendations, but also for not saying Colin Flaher writes. Thank the Lord. Yeah, we appreciate that. We didn't have to kick him out. And we can once again plug settlers by Jimmy Fama Rawer, journeys through food, faith and culture of black African London. Now it's out now on paper in paper back. It's out now on paper back. That means he's already slammed it. He's already knocked out the parking hard back. Bloomsbury, continue him.

So go and get that. give it a read, I certainly am. Thank you very much for listening. Or audiobook. Or audiobook. Thank you very much for listening to the off-menu podcast. We will see you again next week. Yama yama yama. Hello, I'm Sarah Pasco and I'm Carrie Adloid. You might remember us from the peak of our careers, appearing on the excellent, off menu podcast. Is the greatest we've ever felt and we know we'll never achieve that again, but if you remember those episodes and enjoyed what we did, you might be a fan of our book choices and our new comedy podcast. Sarah and Carrier ads, Weirdo's Book Club. Imagine us not talking about food but talking about books. But with the comedians you know from off menu, like Nish Kumar, John Kern, Sopie Jooka and

more. We're not copying them, we're doing our own thing. It's totally different. It's about books. There's no genies involved. It's a space for the lonely outsider to feel accepted and appreciated. I'm just like James A. Caster's bedroom. Ewww! A place for the first nude-locked-fine-a-wheel book club but doesn't like wine or nibbles. You can read along, share your opinions or just skull-corrown-t in your raincoat like the weirdo you are.

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