Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 223: Mathew Baynton (Live in London)

Episode Date: February 10, 2024

Our Royal Albert Hall residency continues (and finishes) with night two, featuring special guest Mathew Baynton.Mathew Baynton is currently starring in the Royal Shakespeare Company’s production of A Midsummer Night’s Dream in Stratford-upon-Avon until 30th March. Buy tickets at rsc.org.uk Follow Mathew on Twitter @realmatbayntonand Instagram @matbayntonRecorded by Matt Mountford-Lister for Storm Productions Group live at the Royal Albert Hall.Edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography and design).Follow Off Menu on Twitter and Instagram: @offmenuofficial.And go to our website www.offmenupodcast.co.uk for a list of restaurants recommended on the show.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, it's Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu podcast that you're listening to right now. I'm here to tell you that I am on tour. UK and Ireland tour. Hot Diggity Dog is the name of the show. Starting on March the 12th, going all over to lots of places. Go to edgamble.co.uk to buy tickets for what I believe is a very funny show. We'll have a nice time. See you there.

Bye. Hot Diggity Dog! Thank you, James. Well, here we are back again with another live off-menu tour show, James. And we're back in the Royal Albert Hall. From our residency. Our residency. The final and second And we're back in the Royal Albert Hall. From our residency. Our residency. The final and second night of our residency at the Royal Albert Hall, recorded on the 10th of October 2023.

As always, blah, blah, blah. There's callbacks to the first half that might not make sense if you weren't there, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Matthew Bainton was our guest. Oh, the brilliant Matthew Bainton. People very excited for Matthew Bainton to come on the show. Rightly so.

I mean, Ghosts, I think the fan base of Ghosts. Yes. I think crosses over with the off-menu podcast. Crosses over the realms. Crosses over the realms. Oh, the secret ingredient was courgette sauce. Which was a callback to an audience member's menu, I believe. Ah, there you go, you see.

So that's an example of something. That we listen to our audience. Yes, we do. And that'll be my intro to the actual podcast. It'll probably be a callback as well. But look, it was a great night. Sorry if you weren't there, but hopefully you can really get an idea of how much fun it was

at our residency at the Royal Albert Hall. Yes. Here is our residency at the Royal Albert Hall. Ed and I talking to Matthew Bainton. Welcome to the Off Menu Podcast, taking the oats of conversation, pouring in the golden syrup of humour, putting it in the flapjack tin of the internet, and but no. Well, I don't like being reminded of flapjacks I didn't know you were going to do it you see what I did there when I riffed it

that's how you make a fucking flapjack mate not in my book anyway it's the podcast flapjack yeah that's damn right podcast flapjack motherfuckers that's a gamble my podcast flapjack, motherfuckers That's a gamble, my name is James A. Kassler Together we own a dream restaurant

And we invite a guest in every single week We ask them their favourite ever start and main course side dish And drink and dessert Oh, not in that order Oh man, it's going so well today Ever And today, our guest is Matt Bainton

Very excited indeed And today, our guest is... Matt Bainton! Very excited indeed. We're both huge fans of Ghosts. We're very excited that Matt is here to chat to us tonight about his dream menu. So, James, without further ado, this is the off-menu menu of... Matt Bainton! Hello. Hello, everyone. James?

What are you doing? Yep, sorry. Hiya. Hi, Matt. We want to get rid of drugged-up James, and now we want the genie, so... Oh, I can't be bothered to get up to rub it, so you'll have to imagine that you're rubbing the lamp. Just imagine it in your minds.

Should I rub it? Actually, maybe Matt should rub it. OK. The traditional rub lamp of just the lip of the lamp there. As we see it in all the... Oh, it's working, though. Welcome, Matt Bainton, to the Dream Master Armour. Been expecting you for some time.

Thank you for having me. Incredible that... It's like you've rubbed a lamp before. You rubbed the end and then just got the fuck out of there. Yeah, I felt... I sort of anticipated something. Lamps traditionally have things pop out of there. Yeah, I sort of anticipated something. Lamps traditionally have things pop out of them. Yes, it would have been amazing if nothing had happened. Lamps like that, anyway. Where do you think genies fit in with ghosts?

Good question. How do genies get on with ghosts, Matt, as an expert? Well, neither of them exist. So I guess they've got that in common. I just just heard people's hearts break wow don't believe in him don't believe in him at all when you write a show about ghosts you realize that it doesn't fucking make any sense none of it adds up none of it they could walk through walls, but they stay on the floor. What the fuck is that? Like, what surfaces mean anything

to them? How far into the writing process with the rest of the guys did you stand up in the writer's room and go, none of this fucking makes sense. We say it every morning when I wake up. You also was telling us backstage that that's how you feel about horrible histories as well. You said none of it...

You said... None of it happened. None of that fucking happened. None of it's true. Definitely none of those people existed. As part of the mainstream media conspiracy, I was well aware of what we were trying to foist on the children of the nation with horrible histories. Are you a foodie, Matt? Would you call yourself a foodie?

I love food, but I wouldn't call myself a foodie in the sense that, like, I've listened to you guys doing your selections with Ryylan and like picking skin. Yes. I'm not, I've been to some sort of you know classy joints and I've never really had a satisfying meal. I'm never really taken with like tasting menus and things that are sort of this big and like science food science food yeah yeah so hang on what what do you believe in ghosts you know where they have to pick up where they have to pick up something with a tweezer if you've got to do that yeah then i don't think i'm gonna love it i like a... I'm a greedy boy and I eat a lot

and I like a big, hearty dish. I think you can still be a foodie and like a big, hearty dish. Okay, well then I'm a foodie. I know what you mean by science food. Heston stuff. Yeah, yeah. Those kind

of meals where it's like seven, eight courses and they're all really small and there's like little jellies in between things. Yeah, yeah. Give me a big fucking bowl of something nice. So next time you go to a tasting menu restaurant and they say, we'll be having 12 courses this evening, I want you to say, I'll have all those 12 courses,

but put them in one fucking big bowl. In one fucking big bowl, yeah. All looks the same coming out, doesn't it? I need to say that as well. Of your bum? Yes. Yes, James. We always start with still or sparked in that.

Do you have a preference? Can I have had a drink at the bar first? Oh yeah Yeah, fuck yeah Oh, a hack at the Royal Albert Hall Yes I love a cocktail I love a cocktail So yes, I would like one of my favourite cocktails

A vieux carré, please A what? A vieux Carré. Let's hear it! I don't know what that is. No one? I think they just like to cheer for those people. Maybe.

A Vieux Carré. A Vieux Carré. Take us through the Vieux Carré. Fuck it, it's just heaven. It's a bit like a Manhattan. You've got equal parts rye whiskey, cognac, sweet vermouth,

and then a little bit of Benedictine, which is like a liqueur made by monks. Genuinely. It's kind of like herbal-y liqueur, quite sweet. And then you get

some Angostura bitters and some Peixos bitters. Serve that in one of those tumblers with a big, massive ice cube in the middle. It's just smooth and heavenly.

What I like about this is initially you've gone, I don't like the tasting menu shit. I put everything in a big bowl. Yeah, and then put it together. Then you've gone, but don't like the tasting menu shit. Put everything in a big bowl. And then put it together. But I'll be starting with a vieux carré. Oh, I'm sorry. Does nobody know what that is?

Oh, dear. You got me. He's done you there. He's done me. Ed's absolutely done you. Do you know what, Matt? This is why I do this podcast. I fucking love this guy. He does people.

You slip up around him, he'll do you. I do obviously like the sound of that. That sounds... So do you want that at the bar of the Dream Restaurant before you go through to the main restaurant itself? Yes, please. That would be lovely. Did you say Mike's make it?

Sorry? Did you say Mike's? Oh, my God. That would be lovely. Did you say mites make it? Sorry? Did you say mites? Oh, my God. Mite. Mite. I thought one of the ingredients was made by mites. Like dust mites. No.

No? Well. Would you like me to tell him what you actually said? Yeah, go for it. Are you still unaware of the misunderstanding here? No, I know what... He misheard as might. Yeah.

I'm questioning my own voice, if it's possible to mishear what I said. No, I absolutely heard you. Wonderful diction. Oh, backing him up now. You were fucking destroying him a minute ago. Monks. Monks?

Monks. Monks. Oh, that's way more interesting. I'd argue mites would be more surprising. Mites were, you know, like there's coffee that a monkey eats and poos it out? Yeah. Oh, right, yeah, yeah. I thought maybe that was the thing with the mites,

that they're eating sugar or something and then excreting a liqueur. But the monks do that, do they? That might be what's happening at your fancy restaurants, but I don't like science food. Would you have that coffee? The coffee that has been pooed? Monkeys eat the coffee. Yeah, and then they poo it out and they use that as the coffee.

Does it really? I mean, it must make a difference, I suppose. Yeah, it makes it taste like shit. Presumably not, or they wouldn't. Very expensive There's the weasel one as well Really? What the fuck? How do they make the weasels be sick?

Somehow monkeys Pooing Is less weird than weasels vomiting I should explain James was saying monkeys not mighties I was confused I thought not mighties. Oh, that's... I was confused. But the mighties were doing it. I feel as though...

The way I've always thought about that poo thing is that, like, if your child has sort of swallowed a coin or something and it just comes out in the poo... Yeah. ..it's like, you can still clean the coin. The coin is not now a poo coin. I presume that was how it worked with the coffee beans.

The coffee bean is still just a whole coffee bean. It's not mixed or been broken down in faeces. There's got to be a bit of it on there. I reckon there's a bit of it on there. Yeah.

I wouldn't want to risk it. Yeah, I wouldn't be like, give that a rinse, it'll be all right. It's worth... I've never seen, like, pieces of sweet corn in my child's poo and thought, that'll be fine. Yeah.

Use that tonight. Rinse that off. Wash it off. Do it in the colander. Yeah. Where'd you get those? I thought we'd use them as sweet corn yesterday. Very economical.

Good money-saving tip. The coffee's worth more, though, once it's been through the monkeys, right? So that would be like if your kids swallowed 50p and then they shit out a quid. I tell you what, if that were true, I'd have kids. That'd be great.

Pay for themselves. I'm going to return to my previous question, though. No, it's monks. How do the weasels be sick? Is it coffee or something else that the weasels are sick? You can guarantee the poo. Yes. Monkey eats it, they're going to poo it out.

Yeah. Weasel eats something, they're not necessarily going to puke it up. Do you put your finger in its mouth? I don't think so. I think you just need to pick a monkey that's like a proper legend. Sorry, a weasel. A weasel is like a legend and is going to get lashed on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think they get pissed on it and then throw it up. Am I dreaming? get lashed on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think they get pissed on it and then throw it up. Is this, am I dreaming? I feel like I'm on stage at the Royal Albert Hall and you're talking to me while we're vomiting. I'm in the dream restaurant.

Tell you what, you and me were walking down the corridors earlier and looking at some other things that have been on at the Royal Albert Hall. Yeah. And we were doing it really

to make ourselves feel amazing about what amazing stuff has been on here. But there's been a right load of shit. So I feel okay talking about this. The weasels being sick. So that's not even your water course. No. This is pre, you're at the bar

and then you're walking over to your table. Have you drunk the whole thing at the bar? Yeah, I mean, yeah. You've enjoyed it. I'll have another one at the table if it's going. Yeah. If you want it. It's your mean, yeah. You've enjoyed it. I'll have another one at the table if it's going. Yeah. It's your dream, man. You know that thing where you are in a place

where you have a drink at the bar and then your table's ready, and they're like, oh, your table's ready. And then they've got a tray and they're like, pop your drink on there and I'll take it through. I don't trust that. I always say, no, I'll carry it through myself. Yeah.

I'm worried they're going to drink some of it. Oh. But you're walking with them, aren't you? Don't trust them. OK, fine. Yeah. I just don't like... That feels like over-service to me,

that I find that infantilising, if it's like... Because you remember when your mother used to offer to carry your Vier Carré. It's like they don't trust you to not spill it or drop it on the way or something and I remember when my mother didn't trust me not to drop my Viocare on the floor Do you have a preference between still or sparkling water?

Still but I'm hardly going to drink any of it and that's why I'm so disappointed I've disappointed the Royal Apple going to drink any of it. And that's why. So disappointed. I've disappointed the Royal Apple. Well, they went to applaud still. It's just water, isn't it?

It's fine. I'll have some of it to kind of measure out the booze. In my dream meal, I will be drinking quite a lot of alcohol. Yeah. You know, and it's fine if you don't like to do that.

Yeah. Also, but I would like to. I didn't buy one second of you saying that. Yeah. And it's fine if you... You're a wonderful actor, Matt, but not when it came to that moment. Yeah.

And if you don't want to drink, that's fine. You just ruined my whole fucking night. You said to us backstage, you said, I hope there's no teetotal wimp heads in tonight. How about this, right? If you're still water. Do you want ice? Yeah, go on then.

Do you want it made by... Will this make you drink more water? The same monks. Sorry, monks? The same monks. Yeah. It got you. Who made the drink for you.

I mean, how are they making water? Well, have you heard of the monkeys who eat the coffee? The monks drink it. So you're offering me monks piss? Yes. Or diarrhoea. He said that like he didn't want to offend him. Or diarrhoea.

It could be either. It's fine if you want to drink diarrhoea. Either could be liquid in a glass. I'll have just water from a tap. You want tap water? Ah, well, then this begs the question. Which tap? What part of the country has the best tap water?

In your opinion. You know, you can tell a guest's come in and wants to get through the water course as quickly as possible. You've spotted that and you're exploiting that, aren't you? Yeah, he's really dwelling on it. It's funny to me. I mean, medium hard. Do you want to take that one? Don't think there's any need to, really.

Medium hard. A monk could only dream of... It's going to sit there, and then at some point, I'm going to realise it's still full and drink a little bit out of shame. That's what the water is there for for me in a meal is that everyone else is drinking it and at a certain point I think oh I've had a lot to drink and I haven't had any water and then I have a sip and it's boring well we we have had guests before who've replaced the water in the water course with another a boozy drink so if you

if you have another drink that you want you could you could hack it and and replace the water in the water course with another boozy drink. So if you have another drink that you want, you could hack it and replace the water with booze. And when we say other guests, we mean us twice. Okay. Can I have another cocktail, please? Same one? No.

I'll have some gin with some elderflower liqueur and a bit of lime squeezed in. Pop-lums or bread? Pop-lums or bread, Matt Bainton? Pop-lums or bread? Bread. What kind of bread are we talking?

Okay. I love bread. Yeah? Real bad. And I could conceivably have bread in sort of every course in various forms. What? So it's a hard choice, is what I'm saying.

I'm going to go for a sourdough, which there's a place in Holloway, I it is called bread by bike and they also do it yeah i also do it in a few other places and it's the perfect sourdough i've it's the best one i've ever had i often find sourdough really dry off People like the sourdough with a big open crumb where it's more holes than bread. Yes. And this is just like still a bit moist and it hasn't got those gaping big holes in it

and it's fucking delicious. And the crust is sort of almost burnt in a way that's like almost caramelised and sort of sweet and chewy and beautiful oh i nearly shouted take me to church then i'm so on board with this yeah fuck holes in sourdough i hate that i really hate it because like bread is you don't you want stuff on it yeah so don't present me with something that you're trying to get a little bit onto the tiny ledge of dough in the middle. You end up buttering the plate.

It's really annoying. Or you put things on and they all just fall into the holes. If you try and make a sandwich with that stuff and then it's just in your hands, fuck that. May I say, full respect to Ed there for pretending that he wouldn't eat a buttered plate.

Oh look, I didn't say that. I said, it's happened multiple times. I'll get a loaf of sourdough, I'll be really excited about it. I'll get a bit, toast it, put it on the plate, huge, whacking great holes in it, put butter on it, lift it up, it's mainly butter and marmite on the plate or whatever. I'll get a bit, toast it, put it on the plate huge, whacking great holes in it put butter on it, lift it up it's mainly butter and marmite

on the plate or whatever, I'll eat the toast then I'm licking up that plate like a dirty little kitten Is bread delivered by bike? I think maybe they do so I discovered it in a market in a school playground that was

there on the weekend. Contact. Contacts. Matt has kids. I do. I have kids. And I think this was, like, pre-lockdown. They started, like, a market on a Saturday in a playground of a school, and my kids were getting into cycling and we used to cycle down there and my daughter would be on the little seat in front

of me and then my son would be on his little bike and it was lovely and we went there and we found this bread and it was lovely and then we also got a pot of really gorgeous hummus and sat in the park and just ripped chunks out of this bread and dipped it in the hummus and it was beautiful. That's a lovely story. Yeah. I wasn't expecting such a lovely story. You're a real nice guy, my mate. Sorry, yeah.

Sat there going, five pounds for bread is a lot, though. And you turn to your kid and you went, shit in my wallet. Shit in my wallet. Wow. The loveliest story. I was cycling on my bike and my daughter was on the handlebars and my little boy was having fun in his bike and saw some lovely bread and saw the price and I was cycling on my bike, my daughter was on the handlebars, my little boy was having fun in his bike, saw some lovely bread, saw the price,

and I was like, you've got to shit in my wallet. Real quick. Sorry, man. No, I can afford bread. Yes. Yeah. So I didn't need him to shit in my wallet. Not that day.

That sounds like delicious. And you want butter on it, loads of butter on it. I'm plant-based these days. Yes. Did someone boo? Yep. Yes. Fuck you, pal.

Some of my meal, spoiler alert, is going to be back in the days when I wasn't vegan. Uh-huh. More people are excited about that. And I do miss... And butter is incredible. It's really not vegan. So I'm going to...

I think I'll have... If I can, I'll have that hummus as well. Yes, absolutely. Do it at the end of the bike ride? Yeah, in the park. That would be nice. I can imagine that, yeah. I mean, although I probably don't want to have

sunk two cocktails before that, but it's fine. Slightly less nice memory now. Ghost's actor says he would drink two cocktails then take his child on a bike. Yeah. They're old enough that they can both ride their own bikes now, so I'd only be risking my own life. You'd be all right.

Yeah, I'd just be leaving them without a dad. Yeah. And with a memory, of course. Yeah. I mean, maybe I'd...'d I was gonna say I'd come back You do a show called ghost oh yeah Hate myself now ghost ghost in that all you? Yeah. I hate myself now. There's some ghosts in that, all from different types. Yeah. Let's get into your menu proper,

your dream menu proper. Okay. Your dream starter. I'm going to give an honourable munchen, if I may, first. Absolutely. Respect. Nothing but respect. There's an amazing place in Stroud Green called J. Krishna, which is a fucking incredible vegetarian...

Is it vegan or vegetarian? I can't remember. Indian restaurant. And it's one of those places where, like, the decor is bad. The service is... there's no service you you like they give you a menu and a and a piece of paper and a pencil and then at your own leisure you have to try and get someone's attention to say this is what we want And they come out when they're ready, but everything is incredible. And there's a masala dosa that they do that is just incredible, amazing. But I think because of what I'm going to have later,

I'm not going to have that. But I did want to give that a shout out. So we've got the masala dosa as an honourable mention. Yeah, that's an honourable mention. But the one I'm going to go for is a restaurant that was local to me, which is sadly now closed. One of those places where, after COVID, it just didn't reopen.

It was called Irvin Bar and Grill, that was weirdly Scottish-Italian fusion. Nice. But amazing. That didn't survive the pandemic. Yeah, well... It was incredible. And I had a starter there which was it doesn't sound great but it was yeah it was a bolognese a fennel fennel and apple salad

which was i don't know what the what was in the dressing, but it was like shaved... Keep going, Matt. They were like really finely shaved... Yeah, keep talking about that fennel. ...fennel and apple. And the sort of aniseed-y flavour of the fennel and the sweetness of the apple was incredible together. And I don't know what was in

the dressing but it was incredible and I rarely ever care for salads particularly but this was amazing and a really good kind of like you could eat a lot of it and not feel too full for the rest of the meal and I'm sorry if you don't like fennel. We actually haven't talked about it for a long time, have we? Fennel's not really come up on the podcast for a while, but, no, it's... Hasn't come up in a while. Talked about it with Dynamo. That's how long it's been.

Dynamo called me fennel for the whole... Came on and called me fennel for the whole podcast. I didn't like fennel. And then I went on Jaws Holland's show and Jaws Holland was like, I heard that episode where Dynamo called you fennel. And he went, Dynamo's so funny.

He went, it's so funny to call you fennel. I was like, yeah? It was like, yeah, yeah. He could have called you Mr. Fennel. But he chose not to and just went with fennel that's funnier dynamo's really funny then he walked away my full conversation with jules holland have you found have you had any fennel since that moment and enjoyed it sometimes it's snuck into stuff and the finley shade thing makes me feel a bit optimistic because sometimes

there can be a little bit in there. I can always detect it. Even if people don't tell me. It's pretty distinctive, yeah. But sometimes it's so faint that actually it works. I can be like, actually I like this and they've done well here.

Yeah, you won't like this. It's fennel and apple. There's very little else. I really like the sound of that masala dosa. Yeah, you won't like this. It's fennel and apple. Yeah. There's very little else. I really like the sound of that masala dosa. That sounds delicious. Well, I'm not choosing it.

But would you normally go for fennel? This is so good that you're like... No, yeah. Even though fennel is disgusting. I'm normally not that. My dad sometimes makes a fennel is disgusting. I'm normally not that. My dad sometimes makes a fennel risotto, and I like risotto, and I've just chosen in my dream meal a dish with fennel,

but I'm always a bit like, that's too fennel-y. That sounds too fennel-y. So, no, normally I'm not drawn to that, but this salad was just amazing. It really wakes up your mouth. Yes. Really wakes up your mouth after you've killed it with two big cocktails. Yeah, exactly.

James' name was Fennel in my phone for a long time. Fennel McMeatball. Fennel McMeatball. Yes, he called me that. Sorry, mate. It's not Fennel McMe Meatball? Yes, he called me that. Sorry, mate. It's not Fenelmuck Meatball anymore. Thank you. It's all right.

It's Old Bean now. Old Bean. Because there's a new bean now. He thinks that's funny. It would take too long to explain. Okay. for that uber eats get almost almost anything order now product availability may vary by region see app for details your dream main course matt can i have a pasta course please oh yes smooth move from matt bainson yeah you're the first guest on this tour to invoke invoke the pasta loophole.

Yeah. That's not a type of pasta, but it should be. Oh, yeah. Some loopholes, please. I love this. I love that you've done a second hack. Nothing but respect for it. Everyone's going to be walking out the Royal Albert Hall tonight

respecting you more than when they came in. Good to know. Including me. I'm going to go for a cacio e pepe oh so we're going pre-vegan with this one pre-vegan yeah I have had

I went to a vegan Italian in Edinburgh I can't remember the name and they did a vegan cacio e pepe that was pretty good but I'm't remember the name, and they did a vegan cacio e pepe that was pretty good, but I'm going to have the cheesy one. And the genie's going to make the cheese without

any animals involved. I can do that. But it's going to be exactly that cheese that would have had animals involved. I can do that, no problem. Pecorino, I think it is. Yeah, Pecorino. Yeah, Cacio e Pepe.

Today, my mum ordered something that had Pecorino on it, and they said not only is it obviously cheese with milk in, but they said there might be traces of the animal in it. What? That's what they said. Mum, back me up on this. Wow. They said...

The first time in podcast history that anyone's asked their mum to back me up they said the first time in podcast history that anyone's asked their mum to back them up they get the cow to eat the cheese and then shit it back out it's even better traces of the animal that's what they said my mum was like

there's a bit of confusion is it rennet is it like parmesan where they make it in something that's lined with guts? Well, maybe. Is that what rennet is? Yes. Hang on, what the fuck? They're making parmesan in guts?

Yeah. Because parmesan was always one that, even as a vegetarian, you're like, ooh, I don't know if I can have that, but even as a vegetarian, you're like, oh, I don't know if I can have that, but it's very nice. I think you're thinking of Parma ham. Probably do a power show. I saw a man

crack the top off a pecorino recently. Huh? You know they're massive, right? The Pecorinos. Yeah. Huge wheels. And they're big wheel. Yeah.

And they have to get the top off and they put all these tools in the side and then they turn all the tools and then there's a big crack and they crack the whole top off. And I was watching that and I applauded. And you get off on that sort of stuff. I really got off on it.

When it cracked, I cracked. You could tell. Big time. I mean, you couldn't describe something that's more up your street than seeing someone crack some cheese. I bet you shouted cock-a-doodle-doo at the top of your voice.

Do you want to hear about the catcher? I really do. Tell me, tell me all. I do. I'd heard somewhere that it's like the test of a really good pasta chef is cacio e pepe, and I had no idea why, and I had never had it up to a point where I was in Los Angeles, and it was the first time I'd been there,

and I had like a quite sort of dispiriting week of meetings with people that were aimless and didn't lead to anything. And it was like the last day of this and I came out of this meeting really, really, really early and I had a car booked for like two hours later to take me to the airport. And I was like, oh, fuck, I've got nothing to do. And you can't walk anywhere in L.A.

Or you can try, but it will just be you and homeless people. Everyone else is driving. But there was a restaurant like on the block. So I thought, oh, fuck it, I'll go in there. And Cacio e Pepe was on the block so I thought oh fuck it I'll go in there and cacio e pepe was on the menu and I thought oh I've heard that sort of you find out if if the chef's really good and it was just amazing and after that it became a sort of thing of like anywhere where it was on the menu I wanted it do the chefs know that you're testing them every time you order it?

I mean, that's the case in anything you order in a place, isn't it? I suppose so. The general idea is I want to like it. I guess I don't see my relationship with hospitality like that, that the chef better be on his fucking toes. It's exam day, yeah true i just i i kind

of liked the story of it like yeah that's meant to be the one that you can if you can nail that yeah you can nail anything and apparently it's all about the amount of like the lick you know the salty water that you've made the pasta and you've got to reserve a bit of that broth. It's got to be just the right amount and just the right temperature when you add the cheese. It can't be too hot. It can't be too much. It'll go watery.

Not enough and it's just going to be kind of thick and gloopy. You've got to get it just right. And it's amazing if you do. Every time you've had a cacio e pepe in a restaurant, do you walk into the kitchen afterwards and go, you passed the test. You are a chef.

I think on that occasion, the first one I've had, I did actually say, can you tell the chef that was incredible. That's good. I don't think I've ever done that, you know. Compliments to the chef. Please tell the chef. Now who's the arsehole in the restaurant?

They know. The thing is, when you guys go to a restaurant now, they must be thinking that. You must be treated like food critics now. Is that true for you, James? Yes. Every time I go to a..., especially if it's a dessert... Yeah.

The place we went to today, the person came out, the chef, and said, I listened to Off Menu. Thank you. He went, two Tim and Masu's? Actually, he said, do you want two Tim and Masu? And my dad went, two, please. Nice. That's just reminded me of a time I was at a cafe with Ben Wilbond,

who's the mother of the Ghosts gang. Does he believe in ghosts? You'll have to ask him. And we ordered some food, and the waitress, when she came over, put the plates in front of us and went, a couple of tarts? And it was that on the edge

that to this day it still comes up. Do you think she meant... There was just momentary eye contact. Couple of tarts? She must just push it further and further every day, I think. I think she's trying to get fired. To clarify, we had ordered Tarts.

Yes. That's an important... That's what she should have said, that. We had ordered Tarts. She didn't put down Cacio e Pepe and go, couple of Tarts. Just go, couple of Tarts. Couple of fucking slacks. Did she mean to do that? Couple of fucking slacks there. Did she mean to do that? We have a similar thing in my family that we still talk about.

Because years ago, we used to live in Banbury. And we went back there as a family, just to, like, you know, old stomping ground. Went to this tea room, ordered a round of Bambri cakes, what Bambri's famous for. There's one lady working there, like, oldest lady you've ever seen. And she brought out all the Bambri cakes and were on a circular table. And she gave them to us. And then my brother was the fire end so she went she went here's your Bambri cake and then farted so loud and then like claimed it as well so she went here's your Bambri cake

pardon me claimed it as well. So she went, here's your bamboo cake. Pardon me. Like that. And Is that now what you say when you Yeah, here's your bamboo cake is still a thing in my household. That's how you should be.

Do you say it before you fart? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because also she was looking dead at him yeah here's your bambi cake fart it was so disrespectful

my mum was like crying with laughter she hadn't even left the table yet because she's a really slow old lady yeah so she's still like doddering round to leave and my mum is streaming.

I'm going to spend the rest of this conversation fixated on trying to fart. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You won't be the first guest. There's no... And there's no doubting what happened there. It's not like the couple of tarts situation.

That lady farted, she said, excuse me, and then she left the table. Yeah, yeah. There's no going, ta-ching! Yeah. But, no, but the analogy would be if she meant to say, here's your Banbury cake, and then fart.

If she meant to call it that. But this will be funny. Yeah. To say, here's your Banbury cake and fart fart. If she meant to call it that. But this will be funny. It's like, here's your bamboo cake and fart. And I'm guessing she didn't. Guessing that she didn't. We all just thought it was very funny, apart from my dad was very straight-faced and looking at us like, there's nothing funny about this.

Yeah. Because your dad can't focus on anything if someone puts a fucking pudding down in front of him. Yeah, he's like, the cakes are here. It's a no-laughing you. Yeah, it's like, the cakes are here, it's a no laughing matter. Right. Every time there's a pause is the perfect... Yeah.

You could just do a big fart now. No, I haven't got one. Give it time, man, give it time. Feel free. We'll move on your dream main course. I love the pasta hack tremendous thanks for letting me have it the main i thought i should also well not it's not because of this it's because it's delicious but so much of uh vegan food or a lot a lot of what people think of vegan food is like

replace the meat thing with something that's pretending to be it and there's so much food that is just great that just already was that that is and so for my main if you'll let me can i have a vegan a vegan ethiopian meal all in one all of the stuff the stuff. On the spongy bread? All of it. Yeah, on the injera. Yeah. Yeah. The first time I had this was like a food stall

in Greenwich Market. Wow. All of Greenwich Market turned up. This was like 15 years ago. I wasn't vegan. I never had Ethiopian food. And there was this stall there, just this one lady

with this incredible array of stuff that smelled amazing. And I just thought, yeah, give that a go. And it was the fact I'd never tasted any of it before was just like everything was mind-blowingly wonderful. Yeah. So if possible, I'd also also can i have never tasted it before oh good that's great absolutely because there's something which is like there's some things which are comforting like i've eaten pasta all my life and cheese and stuff up until a certain

point but this was just so much i still love it and, and every time I see an Ethiopian stall, I'm just fucking there. There was a period we were writing ghosts, and we were right next to a place where there were food stalls, and I just had it every day and never got tired of it. But I would love to not have ever tasted it before. Can I ask a technical question about this? Yeah.

So we can definitely do that. I think that Jeannie can do that. She can make sure you've never tasted it before. Can I ask a technical question about this? Yeah. So we can definitely do that. I think Jeannie can do that. She can make sure you've never tasted it before. Hence, erasing your memory of ever eating Ethiopian food. Yeah. So how are you picking it for your dream menu if you can't remember it? Wow.

I'm going to tattoo it on my body. Yeah. Pick Ethiopian. And you think you can interpret that message? Food. Pick Ethiopian food. On the off-menu podcast. On the off-menu podcast for your main.

Yes. I mean, it's probably more of a back piece. Yeah. I mean, well, I don't really need... I just ordered it, didn't I? And then I evade your memory after. Do you want me to men in black you?

So, yeah. I've ordered it up front and then when the food comes, you erase my memory. So when the food comes, you go, what the fuck is that? Yeah. Wow, the smell.

I go, what's that? It smells amazing. Yeah. And then I eat it for the first time and I'm in heaven. Thank you very much. I'm going to be sneaky, though, when I erase your memory of the Ethiopian food.

I'm also going to make it so you don't know who your kids are. Fuck. Didn't say he wasn't an evil genie. Now, I've listened to this podcast quite a lot. I've not known the genie to do that sort of thing. I'm mischievous sometimes. Yeah.

I think I'll remember them from the bread course. Maybe. Well, you know, at the start of this, you said genius don't exist. So now I'm showing, I'm teaching you a lesson. Okay.

Shit. That'd be some good Ethiopian food, man. Yeah. Here's the thing, though. What you've said about Ethiopian food, I relate to 100%. It's so amazing. It's incredible.

I've never had a bad version of it, ever. Yes. Every time I've seen an Ethiopian restaurant, it's always that good. Yeah. And the first time I had it, it was, like, mind-blowing. Yeah. I was in Amsterdam.

My friend took me there. There's a place on the corner. And I remember, like, having it and being like, well, this is all I'm going to want now from now on it's so good I don't know what it is I think I just like

there were foods that I'd had before that resemble some of those dishes but the spice the combination of spices is different and it's I just love it the bread's wild as well

yeah spongy slightly sour bread yeah putting everything on top of the bread like the yeah well yeah spongy slightly sour bread yeah everything on top of the bread like the yeah because i've seen it in restaurants where you just get a massive bit of bread and everyone is sitting around the bread and you all just get involved and then i mean that stresses me out in terms of sharing fair enough if i'm doing that i'm eating as quickly as possible to get to the middle of the bread i'm'm, like, just taking stuff from other people's... You don't like to share, do you?

No, no, no. You don't want to order your own. It's good food for a date as well, because you eat the bread, you go in. It's like Lady and the Tramp, but you just end up shaking hands. We're not going to go there, are we? Ed's manager's on the rocks.

A lovely, great meal, thank you. So take us through what's actually on there well part of the thing for me this is probably an awful confession of ignorance but i just love that i don't really yeah this is the other thing i like one of the things i like to do when i go out is order food that i can't make yeah And this is definitely in that category because I couldn't even tell you what the fuck any of it is. Yeah. Again, 100% with you. Don't know what any of it is.

There are, like, lentil-based stew-type things. Is that a what? Is that a what? Is that a what? There's definitely something called what. What? I think you're thinking... Europe once.

Yeah, yeah. There's something called a what? The bread is called injera. I know that. Yeah. Fuck, we really have erased your memory of it, haven't we? After that, I don't know. There's a cabbage-y thing that's incredible.

It's just all nice stuff. I should have probably learned a bit about it when I was preparing to pick it for a live podcast at the Royal Albert Hall. Dream side dish, Matt? This is going to be chips. Do you want me to erase your memory? Do you want to know what chips are?

No, but I'd like you to reinstate the memory of my two dear kids. Here's the thing. I'm gonna do that, but unbeknownst to you, I'm gonna put two other people's kids in your head. You're gonna think they're your kids. In fact, earlier on, I met a couple of brothers. Boys!

They're a little unconventional. Stop it! So, for the side, I'm taking my two lovely boys down to the beach. Yeah. Brighton Beach. There's a... There's a vegan fish and chips place called No Catch.

Fuck me, that's a lot. Great name. And it's lovely. And the chips are lovely. I've had lots of lovely chips in lots of lovely places, but I wanted to give that place a shout out. And I love chippy chips. Yeah. to give that place a shout out and i love chippy chips yeah with salt vinegar and a little tub of mushy peas to dip into as well if i may side my side but chips vegan everywhere though or are they

like double vegan at no catch well at no catch the vegan stuff is like they do like the vegan they do the battered stuff and things for that. But I just want the chips for my sad. It'd be funny if No Catch is just a place where they've got no fish because they're shit fishermen. Yeah. It's just chips.

We came up short again, we got nothing. Yeah. They just wrote that on the board one day because they didn't have anything and everyone thought it was really fucking cool that's cool vegan i like it we're just saying it's vegan now because all right no i just not brought any fucking fish back again so vegan place now we've got yesterday's heads if you want that it's a good name as well kind of band is it listen to What makes these particular chips so good? They're a little bit crispy on the outside,

very soft on the inside. They're chippy chips. How much salt, how much vinegar do you put on McBainton? I'm putting on a decent portion of chips. I'm putting one of the little sachets of salt. Just one. That's enough. Well, how are we feeling about that?

He's got food. Sorry, you want... Do you want more salt? Are we talking two sachets? Here comes the arena comic again. Three sachets! Four sachets! Three sachets!

I think three sachets seems to be the consensus. It's too much salt, You're having too much salt. But each to their own. I can have one and you can have three. These people hate you. That became clear early on. So vinegar? Lots of vinegar.

OK, right, I've done... I've done this with guests before, so you're just going to have to tell me. I'm going to mind putting the vinegar in the bag, and you have to tell me when to stop. I'm the guy at no catch. Stop. First of all, I thought it

was going to be a... No, the guy has got a squeezy bottle in my mind. Or is it easier to do it by shakes? So if anything, I think you might have put too much... Too much vinegar in. At that point, yeah. So I'll do it by shakes?

Wanking off an elephant. I've come. Yeah. It's good stuff You go in there, you say Wipe me off, no catch That's the You said no catch

You said no catch It's not their deal You just walk in And propose a deal yourself And then say no catch at the end. It's written above the door, no catch. Here's a deal for you. You work me up.

No catch. That doesn't seem to be the catch, the fucking deal you just proposed. It seems awful for me. No catch. I love the thought of going around proposing the worst ever deals to people

and then at the end saying, no catch. I eat this coffee bean, you eat my shit, no catch. Dream drink, Matt. I've already had a couple, but I sort of figure... I mean, I'd like to have this meal with some friends. I mean, some of it I'm sort of popping off

and being in the park with my kids, I guess. Well, yeah, different kids in the park, remember? But I'd also like friends, and we're all enjoying a drink and i like the thing of like having a cocktail before and then some wine during the meal james is going to ask you which friends you want now he likes he would like to hear a list i always like to hear when people say with their friends i like to hear what friends okay well this is going to be unbearable. When we film the TV programme Ghosts, we sometimes hire

a private room in a restaurant and we all go out for a meal together. In costume? And it is... No. One of you definitely is getting turned away at the door. And Kyle can see us. Put some fucking trousers on, mate.

You've been coming in here. Far to be gay. Anyway, it's always fun, and I'd like that. I'd like them. The cast of ghosts. I'd like the cast of ghosts to be there. That's lovely. I'd like Lolly to have plugged her phone in and put the music on.

Yeah. And I'd like to be quite drunk. And how are you getting drunk? What wine are you drinking? So the drink with the meal, I remember that there's a white wine called Norton, I think, Torontes, that I first had when I was a student, and it was in, like a downstairs jazz bar and i didn't really like wine but i used to drink your student in 1927 jack kerouac up here i've been dead for too long

i sort of pretended to like wine for a while and that but then this wine was the first one I had where I was like that's fucking lovely I don't I don't like chardonnays and those kind of yellow wines I would describe them as I usually like a dry crisp wine that's usually the kind of wine refreshing citrusy and this is sort of like that, but it's also got floral, it's got a really floral thing going on. And I just remember thinking, and we were in a jazz bar pretending that that was the sort of

thing we did. And it felt really grown up, even though we were still kids. And that whole feeling, always when I drink that wine now, that's a sort of lovely sense memory kind of became the voiceover of a biopic of your life we were in that jazz bar we realized in that jazz bar pretending we liked wine and pretending we like jazz none of us knew why we were there

we were only kids how much of this wine are you drinking How much white wine do you reckon you can put away? Because I go mad if I have more than three glasses of white wine. I go bonkers and turn into a white wine witch. Right. Tops off. Yeah, I mean, I'd put away two or three glasses, I think. Yeah. But I'd be half a mind on having another drink at the end of the meal.

Okay. This is where the water does come into play. I would be drinking water just to kind of keep it diluted a bit. But with my genie powers, I can make sure you don't get... I know because you want to be drunk. I do sort of want to be quite drunk. I can keep you the perfect amount of drink. Perfect. Amazing.

The whole thing, you don't even have to bother with the water then. Great. Out of everyone in the Ghost cast, who, when you're all having a drink, are you keeping an eye on to be like, they're about to kick the fuck off? The caveman, I'd imagine. Martha Hale Douglas.

Yeah. No question. And she is here. We arrive at your dream dessert. I'm very excited, because it's been a lovely menu so far. I love the thought that's gone into it, I love the hacks. You have seen me become nostalgic about my cheese days, though. Oh, yeah.

Ooh. Ooh, it would be a real shame... ..for me to have to erase the memory of your wife as well. Are we going vegan for the dessert? Well, I think it probably, probably not. But the genie's going to

sort of sort it out, so it's fine for me. Genie will make it, yeah. This is going to be full-on nostalgia again it's i mean i'll come out and it's a custard donut lovely lovely yeah when i was a kid my we used to go on holiday to italy quite a lot my dad used to work there and he used to take us across there in the summer and in the mornings we would go down to the what do they call them the little beach no in france shop like it's the shop i erased a lot more than i would you call them in italy my mind's gone crazy with the erasing of the memories

but you know how in italy they'll have, the shop will also do espresso and will also have pastries and stuff. There's a word for it anyway. Coffee shop. OK, coffee shop, if you want to say that. Yes, sounds lovely. And he'd get a coffee and there'd be one of those glass display cabinets of amazing cakes and pastries and treats.

And there was one that used to make me and my brother's titter called crap fun con crema because it had the word crap in it yes yeah but what stuff but what it was was an amazing custard donut sort of dusted with icing sugar and i still just fucking love a custard donut yeah so i can't like there's so many desserts that i love but if i'm honest that just i could never ever ever say no to a custard donut well i love it because a it's nostalgic you've got the nice memories of being with your family and tittering with your brother that's very nice i mainly want to know how full we are of custard the dough yesnuts. Yes, right. Okay, I'll mind piping in the...

Oh, God. No catch. Here we go. No catch. Yeah. I'm piping in the custard. That's a lot of custard. That's a fuckload of custard, that. That's good lot of custard. That's a fuckload of custard, that.

That's good, though. It says more custard than donut. Do you want it to squirt? My mum and dad might list of all I've got. Hall, man. I was asking, you know when you bite, it's like really full, the donut, and you bite in and it squirts? Custard.

I, but I want there to be enough of the, of the lovely springy doughy dough. So not too full. I want there to be a bit of custard in every mouthful, but mostly doughnut. All right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I respect it. That's what I'd like. I'm not a donut guy.

I don't like a donut. What? Since when do you not like donuts? Well, it's just the same family as Yorkshire Puddings, isn't it? It's boring. Right. Honest to God, I've never heard this opinion from him before. How often do you see me with a donut?

This is staggering. How often do you see me with a donut? I've seen you eat donuts. When? Name of time. Don't go around logging it down whenever you're eating a donut? I've seen you eat donuts. When? Name of time. Don't go around logging it down whenever you're eating a donut. You're supposed to love desserts.

You should be logging every time I have a donut. I've definitely seen you eat a donut, man. And you didn't look too unhappy about it. And you're saying that same family as Yorkshire puddings, but your main problem with Yorkshire puddings is it takes up too much real estate on the plate. Yeah.

But donut is just a donut. You rarely have it with anything else, so that's not an issue. Would this help? I had a dessert recently in Scotland in a place called Mono, and it was a doughnut ice cream sandwich. It was fucking lovely. It was a doughnut cut in half with vanilla ice cream and then, like, hot chocolate sauce.

That would help. I'll have that that's great it was nice would you do that with if i could get a custard look you love italian scottish fusion so you should love this yeah if i get the custard donut from italy yeah and i'll take it to what would you call it mono yeah And they make the ice cream sandwich out of it. Out of that, yeah. With the custard as well. Would you... Oh, but then you've got custard and ice cream. Uh-huh.

That's not a problem. I feel like that's an either-or, isn't it? Oh, sorry. Apparently not. Oh, sorry. I have learned so much. Now I've got money and looks. Like it's two good things.

Ice cream's basically frozen custard anyway, isn't it? What the fuck? Is it? Well, hey. Same family. I know you don't like science, Matt. This is what you get on this pod. You think it'd be too much if we made that?

Yeah. You just want the doughnut. You want the custard doughnut. I think that's the pure thing. Yeah, the crap fun con crema. Do you want you and your brother to titter at it together? Yeah, I want to have to order it and giggle a bit. Yeah.

When I say crap. Do you want us to erase the memory of you having seen it so you and your brother can experience that for the first time together? Just don't delete my fucking kids, please. I'm actually going to replace your kids in your memory with the kids from The Others. And you will think they're your kids.

Those two Others kids who are ghosts. Twist. Quick question. Can we start again? Do you and your brother look like brothers? Oh, yeah. Could I tell if you were standing next to your brother, do you think I'd be able to tell that's your brother?

Well, no, you wouldn't. I'm going to read your menu back to you now, Matt, see how you feel about it. Can I also have a drink at the end? Yes. Just quickly, just can I get a shot of a nice Amaro?

Yes. Thank you. One person in the front row. One person. Yeah you can have it. Thank you very much. I don't actually know what Amaro is. It's like At the end of this description, can you describe it and then say that's amaro it's it's an italian bitter liqueur uh that's amaro you would like a drink at the bar view view caray view caray yeah thank you yeah water gin with elderflower

liqueur and a bit of squeezed lime pop it on some bread sourdough from bread by bike with hummus at the end of the bike ride in the park with your children starter fennel and apple fennel and apple salad from irvin Bar and Grill. Pasta cacio e pepe from the LA place? Yeah, the local, I think it was called. Yeah, I'll have it from there. Main course, a vegan Ethiopian meal, all in one, on injera, and you want to have never tasted it before.

Erase your memory. But not my kids. Listen, man. I didn't say there'd be no catch. You actually said that several times. I didn't say it. No, about that. Side dish.

Chips with one sachet of salt. Fine three! Lots of vinegar and a tub of mushy peas from No Catch in Brighton. Drink Norton Torontes. Torontes? White wine. Dessert, the custard donut from Italy. Laughing at it with your brother. And the digestif at the end, a shot of Amaro.

The menu of Matt Bainton. Thank you. Thank you very much. Give it up once more for Matt Bainton. Thank you. Thank you very much. Give it up once more for Matt Bainton! Matt Bainton, everybody! Thank you so much for coming to our second Royal Albert Hall show. You've been absolutely amazing. Have a nice journey home. See you later. Thank you.

Well, there we are. Brilliant, Matthew Bainton. And Matthew is currently starring in the Royal Shakespeare Company's production of A Midsummer Night's Dream in Stratford-upon-Avon until the 30th of March. You can buy tickets at rsc.org.uk. That's how highbrow our guests are these days, James.

Man, Shakespeare in Stratford-upon-Avon. Yeah. The home ofvon. Yeah. The home of the Bard. Yeah. I bet there's loads of ghosts there as well. I'll be busting them. Oh, yeah. James is a ghost buster now.

In all good cinemas, spring 2024. Spring leaf. Spring leaf. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week with another live show from the tour. Bye. Bye. from the tour. Bye! Bye! Bye! So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything.

Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hello, my name is Ian Smith. And I'm Amy Gledhill. And we are from the Northern News Podcast. Where we take a deep dive into the bizarre stories we find from the North. Hey, and if you like food, and I know you like food actually, because you're listening to Off Menu,

we've got stories about pigs getting coaxed off roundabout with crisps. We've got stories about gravy wrestling in car parks. We've got stories about restaurants getting one-star food hygiene ratings. And record-breaking Yorkshire puddings. And we've got special guests. Which you may remember from off-menu episodes such as

Maisie Adam, Tim Key, Rosie Jones, Fatah El Ghori, Phil Wang and he hasn't been on off-menu but we got

Kevin Kennedy who played Curly Watson in Coronation Street. Take that, A-caster. So please, give a listen

to the Northern News Podcast every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts.