Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 265: Rick Astley

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

Rickrolling into the Dream Restaurant this week is British pop royalty, Rick Astley. We Never thought this would happen. Rick Astley’s autobiography ‘Never’ is out on 10th October, published by Pan Macmillan. Pre-order it here.Rick is also on a book tour – follow him on social media for dates and tickets. Follow Rick on Instagram @officialrickastley and Twitter @rickastleyRecorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography and design).Follow Off Menu on Twitter and Instagram: @offmenuofficial.And go to our website www.offmenupodcast.co.uk for a list of restaurants recommended on the show.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Amy Gledhill. And I'm Harriet Kemsley. You might remember us from when we were guests on Off Menu where I tried to find where I got seaweed mash and we had to call my mum. And I talked about how my mum was worried that I might drown in my own body. That's cool. That is cool. Well, we've started doing a new podcast called Single Ladies in Your Area

Because we're both single in our 30s And have found ourselves back on the dating scene Uh oh! And the landscape has changed So we're going to share our own dating stories and speak to experts and friends to help us answer questions like How do you set up the perfect dating profile? What is flirting? Do love spells work?

We'll even share some of your dating horror stories. So we all feel less alone. So follow Single Ladies in your area on your favourite podcast app and catch the first episode on Friday the 4th of October. Amy, I'm scared. Shall we call our mums? I am Charlotte Casaragui and in partnership with the House of Chanel, I present to you the Les Rencontres podcast. As part of the Rendez-vous littéraire at Rue Cambon, this podcast spotlights the birth

of a female writer. You can listen to the various episodes and their authors on your preferred streaming platforms. Monopoly Double Play is back in McDonald's and it's easy to get into the win. First, you peel on pack. This is me winning a universal theme park vacation. Then again in app.

And me in a new Chevrolet Equinox RS. There are millions of prizes, including a chance to win cash every minute in the App. Cash doesn't make any noise, but it's awesome! Get into the game with Monopoly DoublePlayer McDonald's. While supplies last, one in five chances to win GameCube prizes at outset, chances to win DoublePlay prizes based on time of code entry and draw prizes based on number of entries in each draw. See rules in App. Welcome to the Off Menu Podcast, taking the lasagna sheets of conversation. The Bolognese of humour.

You've done this one, surely? All right, just that then yeah see I've not done that have I I've not done lasagna without any of the bechamel or cheese though you've not no so so haha just lasagna sheets and bolognese and the lasagna sheets are raw so enjoy that enjoy that that's a gamble my name is James A. Gaster together we're in a dream restaurant and every single week we invite the guests and ask them their favourite ever starter main course dessert side dish and drink not in that order and this week our guest is Rick Astley Rick Astley, of course it is legendary singer. Yes

Musical artist. Yes, absolutely Everyone knows Rick Astley. I mean obviously he's a massive hit never gonna give you up Yeah, but also a recent like lovely like collective memory of all the people who went to Glastonbury went to see Rick and Blossoms do a set where they covered Smith songs. Yes. He is well loved across the nation James. Extremely well loved. He's also got one toe dipped in the world of food and drink as well, which might come

up. So yeah. Is that so? Yeah. Rick's book Never is out on the 10th of October That is published by Macmillan and it is as it describes James the autobiography of Rick Astley Yes covers struggles with fame and everything in between Absolutely looking forward to reading that looking forward to meeting Rick, but we will kick him out of the restaurant

Yeah, if he picks a secret ingredient that we have previously agreed upon he will not be allowed to Rick roll our podcast Yes, true and the secret ingredient this week is Seven up because we never gonna give him seven up. We're never gonna give you seven up Rick. Is that good? I think that's great. I think it's good. One of the best ones who've come up. Yeah, I think so Yeah, because if he says seven up, yeah, and we go never gonna give you seven up He'll go right and then we'll go no get out. Yeah. No, really. Yeah, we're not ever. Yeah, we're never we discussed it. Yeah That would be funny I personally don't mind seven up. Yeah or sprite, you know, I don't have a preference between the two

Seven seven up. I think it's softer. I think sprite is more aggressive with the bubbles. Yeah, and you've got a soft mouth I've got a soft mouth and you're treated softly. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you got a baby your mouth, haven't you? Yeah, absolutely They'll be with my mouth. I find out I don't looking forward to meeting Rick. This is the off menu menu of Rick Rick Ashley. Welcome Rick to the dream restaurant. Thank you. It's nice to be here. Welcome Rick Ashley to the dream restaurant. We've been expecting you for some time.

Some time. Okay. Now's the right time. Let's do it. Now it's always the right time when it happens, right? Exactly. Sorry to get philosophical so quickly off the top. I like seeing this deeper side of you.

Thank you very much. This is why you're a philosophical man. It's always the right time when it happens. Yeah. Indeed. I'll go with that. I'll go with that. Sounds like the title of an album, doesn't it?

Yeah. We could do an album together. We could. Hey, you play drums, don't you? I play drums? Yes. Yes. I've just thought of it.

Ed plays the bassoon. I'm grade two bassoon. So if you want that on there, do you think you could ever use a bassoon in your album? Bassoon's the long... it's like the one, but it's got the very thin mouthpiece, hasn't it? It's got the thin mouthpiece. It's like a massive oboe, basically. Massive oboe. Wow. Massive oboe, that's another album type.

More experimental. Rick Astley's massive oboe album. You're in the Dream Restaurant. What does it look like to you? Your dream restaurant? Well it's actually on a beach. My family and I have spent quite a bit of time in Italy on holidays over the years. And I love, you know, anywhere to go on holiday to be honest. I'm just happy to be on holiday. But when I think about holidays, we went to Sardinia a lot for 10 years straight kind of thing. My wife and I have been to Puglia quite a few times now and I just, there's something about Italy and being on a beach in Italy and eating that really makes me happy. Nice.

I think because also I know it's a well trodden thing to say that you can eat well anywhere in Italy, but there is some truth to it. I've eaten badly in Italy as well by the way, over the years, but generally speaking you can go in like a petrol station on the motorway and eat well in Italy, you know? So yeah, it's on a beach and we're looking at, could be the Adriatic, could be the Med, I don't mind, I'll go either way. And yeah, I think that gives me a real sense of lovely comfort and kind of like relaxation, I think is a good way of putting it as well. Mason- So is it like a sort of restaurant set up on the beach or are you talking about eating

directly? No, it is a restaurant. Yeah, it's definitely a restaurant with tables and chairs and the whole thing and yeah, yeah, for sure. You're not sitting on the sand. No, it could even be in a little harbour actually. There's a little place that we've been to a couple of times down in Puglia and the food's just amazing. And even though it's like this little tiny bit touristy, but not, you know, most of the time it is Italians in there. And again, that's the dream,

isn't it? You want to go where, you know. You want to feel like you found the spot. Kind of, yeah. And it's totally unpretentious, but the food's amazing. And yeah, I kind of feel that's my comfort zone, I think, you know. When you're on holiday on the beach reclining, you might want to read a book. Indeed. You might. Boom, shoot, you didn't. Absolutely incredible, James.

Yeah, pretty good. You know, we're only what, 12 series in, and I think you're getting the hang of this interviewing stuff. It's finally started to understand segways, and how promo works. And the need to actually promote the thing that the person's here to promote.

Yeah, often, Rick, you have no idea how many times we'll be like, I start going, so still a Spark the Mortar, and then Ben is like, excuse me, sorry. Remember James, we have to- I get it, I do get it. But it is also a weird thing I think, because the world of podcasts has changed things so much. You know, you go and you, you know, we're having a chat right now and obviously there's a focus to it because of the food side of it and everything. But it's also very often I think I've kind of like

meandered through podcasts a few times where you think, what was that for? And why are we doing, do you know what I mean? You're one stage removed from having a pint in the pub and chatting to people. And once in a blue moon, you actually know the people as well. You know, you mentioned Rob Brydon before and I've met Rob a bunch of times and stuff and I did his podcast and it was kind of a bit like we should have just done it in a bar and do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. That would be weird if you were having a drink with your friend in a bar and he just pulled your book out and went, so let's talk some more about this please.

Yeah, well true, but I think, but it has, I think it's kind of taken some of the kind of like, just the thing about when you do interviews for stuff and you're basically selling something, you can dress it up any way you like, well you've got a new record or you've done an autobiography and it's like, I'm here to sell it. And it's like, it is a bit weird that, you know, on a human level that is a bit weird. And I think that podcasts have sort of taken the edge off that a tiny bit because you're talking about a lot of stuff and you're meandering, you get, you know, but I am here to sell a book. Yeah.

I remember the kid getting disillusioned just suddenly realizing that everyone on Parkinson have to be on there when you're about to sell something. I was like, hold on a second. So like the person last week started talking about their new album. I thought we just wanted to hear about them. They're existing people. It is weird. But then again, like I say, you, you, it's a process.

I think it's like, you've made a record. You won't be able to hear it. You know, I don't think anybody's ever walked out of a studio going, great, I hope no one hears that. It's just not what, you know, and the only way of doing that is letting the wider world know. So vice versa. If you go on a chat show, you need something to talk about.

Yeah. You just woke up, how you been? Not doing much. There's nothing about the house. So Never is the autobiography. Yes, it is. Yeah. And I think the publishing world loves an autobiography with a one word title. There it is. And obviously because of Never Going To Give You Up, which is my biggest song, my first song, my blah, blah, blah, and it's sort of, it's got this place in my life that just totally wharfs everything else really. It's a weird thing to not even admit that, because I can admit it easily, but it's just,

I guess to own it, that you've got this song that's a bit of a kind of a, I don't know, I don't want to be negative about it, because it's been amazing to me that song, but it's kind of like, it's just overshadowed everything. So I kind of, and it was my idea to call it Never. And I just kind of thought, you know, I said it's my idea. It could have been my wife's idea actually. It was our idea, let's say that. And again, it's come up quite a few times about, do you want to do a book?

And I've kind of said, nope. And for years I've said no. And I think- So the title isn't what you used to respond to people. Yeah, well, yeah, never. No, but I have sort of shied away from it really for a lot of reasons. I'm 58 now and I have lived a bit. I've got a 32 year old daughter who just got married and stuff. And I kind of feel that it's not just a, I was in pop music for a

few years, here's a book. I feel there's a bit more of a life to tell kind of thing. I think a lot of it was partly doing like some of the things that happened last year when we played Glastonbury and stuff like that, that I kind of just walked away and thought, wow, that was an amazing moment for me personally. But also I think in the space of a career and sort of go, you're 58 and they're now letting you play Glastonbury. That's a weird, I wouldn't say it's a book end because I'm not finished just yet, hopefully. But it's a weird, there's just a lot of weird things going on in the last few years, I think,

that have made me think, wow, I bet people might actually have an interest to read my side of that rather than just see it in the Daily Mail or whatever, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, like, I mean, a couple of things there. Like, for one, like the song, I don't want to hear someone who's just released that song do a book about what it was like to have a hit single like that. But you must have had such a change in relationship to it over those decades that I do want to hear about that because I think

that's a way more interesting thing to be told about and to learn. Yeah. I think obviously that song came out in 1987 if we just think there wasn't even the internet at that point. Yeah. And ironically, it's had another life on the internet. It's just made me think sometimes to own being grateful and also, and this might seem a bit pompous, I don't know, but to just sort of like try and enjoy life a bit more. Because I think when it was happening, when I was young, 21 and what have you, the first couple of records and stuff, you do, I don't take it for granted, but you do take it a bit more in your stride because you've got nothing to judge it against. So you just, everything's normal, even though it's completely

abnormal, because you don't know anything else. But once you get some distance away from it, you can kind of go, my God, how lucky you were and how amazing that certain people you met and certain situations you found yourself in. And where I am right now being 58, I'm pretty happy to be honest. I have my moments obviously like everyone does, I'm only human, but I'm kind of happy. I have to be grateful for that I think. There's something to be said though, I think for that attitude when it's all based on this one big hit single that happened so early in your career, I think that's happened to a lot of other people who've really resisted that and have sort of almost

thrown their toys out the pram a little bit and gone, no, please stop, please stop talking about that. Whereas you've taken it all in your stride and you have this attitude of gratefulness. Yeah, but I think also partly because I had quite a long gap away from it all. And so I kind of packed it all in with my late twenties, our daughter had just been born and I don't know, I kind of, I'd say I hated the music business, it's a bit strong, but I kind of hated the music business really. Because it's a fricking business, you know, and I hadn't really started perhaps in the way that I really truly wanted to. But you can get disillusioned when it says that perhaps that happened and I maybe not want to be around it.

Yeah. And I just think the business itself, talking about selling stuff, Jesus Christ. I mean, I used to go to do a TV show in whatever country, and it would usually be a different country every day for months on end. On the one hand, that sounds exciting, but you guys have been around stuff like that. It isn't. And you can fool yourself and pretend it is. And you can smile in a smash hits photograph for so long before you just want to kill someone. And I don't want that to come across as ungrateful because I'm not. I'm extremely grateful, but I also think just on a human level, you know, some people are more cut out. I'm a miserable northerner, do you know what I mean? It's really hard to pretend that I was happy, do you know what

I mean? And I've seen other people, you know, and around that time as well, just manage it really, really well. And I don't know whether they're just really good at pretending or they just love it. And they like being famous and they like all that sort of side of it. But I think having a break, and it was a very long break, I kind of, I I never thought I'd do anything again in music to be honest, I'm done. I think that really, really helped and it's helped me appreciate even those times a lot more and remember them fondly rather than, you know, being miserable about it. So was it, was it the second life that the song got on the internet that almost sort of brought you back to stuff?

It was around, it was weird because the timing was the timing was a weird thing. I actually, I met a guy in a pub. It was actually the Half Moon in Potny where it's a band venue really, a gig venue. And I went there because some friends of mine had started a record label and the first artist that they signed was Natasha Beddingfield. She was doing like a showcase or whatever, you know, so there's a few different people. And this guy is a massive promoter and he got talking to me and we got chatting and he kind of basically said, why don't you go out and sing anymore? And I said, well, I just don't want to do it really. I'm done with that. I don't think it's done with me. And, you know, he said, no, no, no, you should go out and sing. You know, you should just, I said, anyway, he not convinced me, but kind of laid it out for me. He said, look, don't sing anything you want. It doesn't have to be your old songs

if you don't want, you can sing anything you want. We don't have to make money. We don't have to do anything. Just go and sing. And if you don't like it, we'll shake hands and forget it. And if you do, we'll talk about it. So it's a well trodden path, but I ended up singing a lot of like Frank Sinatra songs, because that's what my dad used to sing around the house. And I knew them all. And I of have always loved them and I just went and did it sort of under the radar in tiny little venues and I loved it. I absolutely loved it and I loved being on stage again because there was no record to promote and I didn't do any interviews and I didn't do anything for it. I just went out and sang with a great band. I did sing Never Gonna

Give You Up at the End because I'd get lynched if I't. But it was like, but I didn't, it wasn't about that. And then I did a couple of other things. I had an offer to go to Japan and sing my old songs kind of thing. And my wife and daughter made me do it, because they wanted to go to Japan. We stayed in an amazing hotel and we looked after and you know, we had a week's holiday there afterwards and everything. So after doing that as well, I just kind of thought, this isn't. It's actually quite enjoyable because no one sort of knows I'm doing it other than the people who came to the gigs. And it's like, it's, I wasn't being a pop

star. Do you know what I mean? I wasn't doing anything really. You're just remembering what you actually liked about it in the first place. Kind of, yeah. It was just, it was just different. It was just very, very different. And there wasn't any connection to, well, like I say, like selling something. I didn't feel like, you know, I've said it loads of times actually that I could have been selling paint in the 80s, I could have been selling anything. I just felt like I was going around going buy this. It didn't feel that attached to music even. Because most of the time they didn't want you to sing live either. So you're going miming in Germany, Spain, Italy, Norway, what have you and America eventually

and Australia and all the rest of it. It's going mime in on a TV show. My brother could have done it. It's like there's no relevance to anything that I ever started to do as a teenager to what I'm actually doing. Yeah. It would have been a better promo stunt to send your brother. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just have him walk out every time and have them all go, hold on a second. That's a different guy. That's a bit tall, isn't he?

Turns out he's your brother. Hang on, it does sound like him. And also it's down to me. If I want to play a cover of something, that's what we're doing. If you want to go to the bathroom, off you go. But you must have it that people quite like, like, you know, you did two sets at Glastonbury last year and one of them was you and Blossom's doing the Smith's covers. And that was a huge hit as well.

I mean, it's quite rare that someone has the kind of Glastonbury you had last year where they have two sets that everyone was talking about all the time. It was a hundred percent bonkers. And yeah, I mean, for, yeah, first half of the festival, everyone was just saying, did you see Eva Cassidy? It was amazing. And then the second half, everyone was saying, did you see Eva Cassidy? And people must surely also be quite up for hearing covers from you now as well. Cause you kind of- Yeah, I guess. I mean, well, it's weird because I, I just really like doing it. And like when we rehearse, my band are amazing by the way, and they can play everything without even thinking about it, they're all super annoying in that respect. I just throw them

a song and they go, yeah whatever, and play it. I'm like, okay, right. But what's amazing about that also is that I have no fear about, so sometimes we'll just sit there and jam through songs for like 40 minutes, and then I'll suddenly realise we've gone a bit far. Slipknot, we've gone a bit far. So, we'll pull that. Don't, please do. It's Ed's favourite band, we've gone a bit far. So we'll pull that. It's Ed's favourite band, literally Ed's favourite band. Oh is it?

Oh yeah. He would love it if he did Slipknot. Okay. It's just hard to play. It's hard to play. Yeah, so you'd need nine people really. You need nine people and... You need some like oil drums and... You need all that. All of that. What's the one that puts my fingers into my...

Yeah. That is just... What do you think, an acoustic version? That is the... Well yeah, could do. I think, uh, what was, and I know we should get on with the menu, Benito. I know we should go with it. But I think what was nice, what was particularly nice about that, Grastami, is that there's a lot of us who really enjoy those Smith songs and grew up with them. And then Morrissey became the man he is now and we would never want to go and see him

live. But this was a way of seeing those songs live and enjoyed it about a sing along to them again. It was like the beyond meat burger to use, to use a reference that Morrissey would probably appreciate it. It was like, Oh, this tastes just like it, but without any of the inhumane stuff, I don't agree with. Yeah.

That was what was nice about it, I felt. I felt there was a lot of people going, I really wanted to see these songs live and sing along with a feel for the people, but I've made my peace with the fact that's never gonna happen. Yeah. And then it was a way of doing it.

You don't have to comment on it, Rick. No, no. You don't have to comment on what I just said. We always start with still or sparkling water. Yes, yes. It's gotta be still for me. I don't mind sparkling, but I just, if it's sparkling, I'd rather it was something else. If it's fizzy, I don't want water,

do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I'm easy. I'll go tap. Not in every country in the world, but I'll go tap. Not in every, also I'd imagine, so you're from Lancashire, right? I am indeed. So the tap water there is very good. I mean, Mr. Steve Coogan, my God, has he got a bee in his bonnet about Northern water. I mean, come on. Yes, he has.

But it's good water. Yeah, I'm not denying that. But I mean- You don't have local pride for your water? Your tap water? Yeah, I probably do, but I mean, I'm not going to- I'm aware of being a professional northerner at times. Sure. And I haven't lived up there for like 30 odd years. My wife's Danish, you know, I've spent

more time in Copenhagen than I have, you know, in the town that I'm from. Do you know what I mean? So it's kind of like, so I'm always still, to be honest as well, there's something about the carbonation of water, if you like, that is a bit, I don't think that helps with food to me. Because it fills you up or it? It's just something about it. And some of them are quite, they've got a taste to them, I think, a very definite sort of something. And I don't want that when I'm eating. The water is to perhaps cleanse your palate a bit, but also just to keep you hydrated with

the lovely wine we're about to drink. Yeah, yeah. Little sneak preview. So the tap water wouldn't be from anywhere in particular then? Cause sometimes it's fun if the, I mean what's Copenhagen tap water like if you've been. I mean, yeah, you can drink tap water there a hundred percent. I wouldn't think twice about it in most places. I think to be honest, it's to do with it's when you're working, especially you're like, I'm very sensitive to not eating shellfish and stuff when I'm working and getting, I've only cancelled one gig in my life and it was in Australia. I had the wildest, and I've had food poisoning a few times, the wildest food poisoning ever.

Talk us through it in detail. Well, I started, we did sound check and we all ate chicken salad, right? And then I did not feel very well. And the room was like moving and everything was going really kind of like, it was going into a very strange place. And I went outside and found a metal lamp post and was hugging it. And I thought there's something very wrong with me right now. And then I just started throwing up like there was no tomorrow, like really bad. And if I could have sensed this was about to happen, I would have done something about it, but I thought I'll be fine,

I'm gonna throw up a few times and I'll get through it. Might have a couple of podcas and I'll be fine, right? And then I really wasn't, I was beginning to get worried. And then the audience was already in by this point, and they made a bit of an announcement and said, I don't know, is there a doctor in the house or what? But somebody quietly found a nurse, and she came out to see me and she

said, I think you should go to hospital. And at that point I started to get, cause I was off my tits at this point. I was like, I hadn't been drinking anything. I was just hallucinating and I was full on, you know, I really wasn't very well. And they called for an ambulance and in the end the ambulance said, look, we just, we can't do it. We're not going to come for someone who's got food poisoning. They were, and then they weren't, and then they weren't, and they weren't. So they got a doctor, private doctor, and he injected me in the bum region with something, sent me to the hotel and immediately went to sleep for like 12 hours, you know, so I don't know what it was he gave me or what have you.

But I was really, really ill and that's the only gig I've ever canceled. And so, and obviously it was chicken salad, so what can you do? You know what I mean? You can't avoid chicken salad, it's quite a regular thing. But I think ever since that day, because that's pretty good going, only cancelling one gig in my life. And I've been really ill doing gigs by the way, like really ill, but that was something else. That was like, that was on the edge that one. I know what you mean about like, suddenly getting paranoid about food if you've got a show that night something else. That was like, that was on the edge, that one, you know. I know what you mean about like,

suddenly getting paranoid about food, if you've got a show that night as well. Like if there's like an oyster kicking around or something, I'm not doing that. No, I'm not like, as we're gonna get into, I like seafood of any description and pretty much any description. And I always, you know, I do love oysters

and I love lots of things, but if you're gigging, it's just like, you know. I will love oysters and I love lots of things, but if you gig in it's just like, you know? I will say it's rare that I'm doing a gig and there's an oyster kicking around. Come on. You heard Campbell. Well, that's also sounds really dodgy. Just an oyster. Yeah.

And there's an oyster just on the road. Yeah. So I'm never worried about that normally. Like if I'm, if I'm not working, I'm like, yeah, I'm sure it's absolutely fine. But just, I just know one day it's going to happen. Absolutely. Bite you on the ass. Pop-a-dums or bread, Rick Astley? Pop-a-dums or bread?

Oh my God, I still can't get used to that. There is no need for a pop-a-dum in what we're about to, you know, and like most people say on this thing, yes, I like pop-a-dums and I like them when I'm going to have an Indian or a takeaway or whatever, but no, we're going to have bread. And also because we're going pretty full on Italian in this place, because remember we're on an Italian beach somewhere overlooking one of the seas, whichever one you want. So if we're going to have bread at all,

it's going to be something Italian, something nice. Which particular Italian bread are you thinking? I don't really mind really. Italy's weird as we know. It's got lots of different kinds of bread. Some of it's awful and unedible and I don't know why they even put it out in a restaurant. It makes no sense whatsoever. It's just awful. I think a lot of it's in the north actually. It's just white bread with no anything in it. It's just awful. And

they do that in English Italian restaurants or Italian English, you know, whatever. And it's like, yeah, yeah, but we don't want that. That's not the Italy we want. We don't want like proper rustic Italian bread. No, we're not the rustic. We want the rustic that is a certain part of Italy's rustic. We don't want that white bread with nothing in it. It doesn't mean anything to us. I'd rather have the sticks in the plastic paper, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the breadsticks. Yeah. So you're more thinking maybe a nice focaccia. Yeah, something like that, yeah. Possibly with even a herb in it, you know what I mean? It's got to have good olive oil. Yeah. That's the thing.

If you've got even reasonable bread, good olive oil, you're away, aren't you? So it's one of the things that I actually, oh, it's going to sound like a right snob now. But my wife and I do this all the time, where when they pour you some olive oil and we just look at it and we go, whew, that's disappointing, isn't it?

You know what I mean? Because it doesn't look rich enough and strong enough and you know what I mean? And then you taste it and you go, yeah, I knew that was gonna be disappointing. And then- And then- It's something very, early at the top of the episode, Rick, you described yourself I mean? And then you taste it and you go, yeah, I knew that was going to be disappointing. And then- There's something very, very early at the top of the episode, Rick, you described yourself as a miserable northerner.

Yeah, well- And it's the idea of you looking at olive oil being poured out going, ah, that's disappointing. No, but come on, that's, that's- I mean, we've all kind of stepped up our game with food I think. Yeah. And obviously some of your listeners perhaps are of an age where they've never known any other time where you couldn't just get everything all the fricking time. Just sat on a couch and sort of go, I want Thai, well I want this, well I want Korean, but obviously I want North

Korean. I don't want none of your, you know what I mean? I think even, you know, I live in a good area for Deliveroo. I'd struggle to get North Korean cuisine, I think. Well, I don't know. Probably on the wrong delivery page, I love. But you know what I mean? You can, and obviously I'm 58 and I grew up in a small town in the North and it was like, it was not exotic.

It really wasn't. And I think it's not even mean spoil. I sometimes feel it's spoil. I do, I don't worry about it. I don't lose sleep over it, but I do sometimes wonder about where it's led us that you can eat anything whenever you want. You can have blueberries from Chile, you know what I mean? And you're like, hang on a minute, how did they get here? Does that make any sense? No, it doesn't. But we've got used to it. And I think at some point we're going to have to address that a little bit, you know?

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think so. But let's enjoy it while we can. Let's enjoy it while we can. Let's not think about it. Let's just ignore all of it. But I think the olive oil thing, maybe it's an age thing as well, I don't know, but it's like just get into it, don't you, at some point. You guys must be into olive oil. So what are you looking for when the olive oil's poured out? What would make you and your wife go lovely?

I want it to be dark, dark, like some kind of, you know, and like, a bit like, you know, like, oily, like a proper, you know, I'll say oil in the sense of something you put in your car, viscosity, if that's the right word, you know, somewhere you can really see it's like, Oh, hang on a minute, I'll have the phone. And then when you actually taste it, you want that kind of kick in it, really kind of almost a bite in it. And I just hate it when it's just nothing. It's just like, well, that's just, there's no point in putting my bread in that, you know? And what do you think, I mean, you're spending a lot of time-

Imagine you saying that to a waiter. There's no point in putting my bread in that. Just not even doing it. You spend a lot of time in Copenhagen. I believe that's the origin of the place, the first place where they started putting olive oil directly onto ice cream and drizzling it onto the top. Oh really? Is that in one of the like the Noma-esque restaurants up there and all that? Yeah, kind of like everywhere now around. I went last year for a couple of days and

every ice cream place would offer sea salt and olive oil on the top if you wanted. I don't know if that started in Copenhagen though. I think that might be an Italian thing. But it's very in. Yes, very in. You must know obviously that Copenhagen is in the last 10 years or whatever more, has just become this revolutionary food because obviously it has the best restaurant in the world, number of years running, all the rest of it. And so many people who've gone through that restaurant obviously have started other places and da da da.

And it is, our daughter lives there and we go there a lot, obviously, I know my wife's there right now. And it is pretty amazing for food. It's pretty amazing for everything, to be honest. You guys won't know this, but we have a couple of bars in London that we're involved with from one of the places called Mikkela. I don't know if you know that. I know you're involved in this. Okay. So anyway, so that's like the whole everything with food and just drinking and everything has really changed, I think. I mean, I like the whole everything with food and just drinking and everything has really changed, I think.

I mean, I like the old school Danish food as well, to be honest, like open faced sandwiches is still a big thing with me and stuff and the herrings and all of that. We always have a Christmas, we always have a Christmas, well, we have a styling around the food that's all very, very Danish. Like, you know, they're big in pork. I'm not so big in pork to be honest. So leaning my wife normally kind of makes me something else, but anyway, but, and the crackling that's on it and everything. The Christmas potatoes we've heard about on this podcast before.

Well, did they call them brunkatoffle? Which is like Christmas potatoes. Is this like with the sweet, really sweet? Sugar, yeah. Yeah, with sugar on them. It's basically sugar. It's like white boiled potatoes, tiny ones, like little new potatoes almost. And you literally, I mean, it's obscene when you see it, you look at it and you just think that's a health problem right there. It's just a pan full of sugar and you just melt that down, put the potatoes in and they

just become brown potatoes then. And it is amazing. That does sound amazing. Your dream starter. My dream starter is swordfish, but done, oh for God's sake, when you just slice it really thin. Carpaccio. Carpaccio is what I'm after, yeah.

And again, I think I wouldn't say I would have that on every restaurant I've been to, but I think if you go to a nice one and you get the feeling, well the olive oil was really good, so I might actually. Is it like a testing thing? But I think if you go to a nice one and you get the feeling, well, the olive oil was really good. So I might actually. Is it like a test testing thing? Like when, yeah, I think that's true. Yeah. But you go with the olive oil.

If the olive oil is good, you're ordering the swordfish. Kind of. Yeah. And I would feel better about ordering the seafood as well. And the everything. It's a marker. They've set a marker of like, this is, we're a good place and we know what we're doing, you know? And that, it doesn't have to be swanky and posh. It's just, no, we really care about the food in here and this is what we're doing, you know?

Is it our first swordfish on the podcast? Good question. It must be one of the few. Yeah. We haven't had it come up much. Yeah. Well, they have, they put it in pasta a lot in Italy or certain parts of Italy anyway. They didn't sardine a lot. Linguine della la spada I think it's called. And it's just, it's got a very fish taste, but not to the point where it's, because fish and pasta for me is a bit of a weird one.

You know like salmon and spaghetti. I'm not saying I've never eaten it and I wouldn't eat, I would eat it tonight. If someone's made it and I've gone around theirs, I'm going to eat that and I'm fine with it. There's a bit of me going, are you sure? No? No, I see what you mean. It doesn't feel like a match made in heaven, doesn't it? Salmon and pasta. It seems odd to me. That seems like someone else's version of what should be going on. Spaghetti. Yeah. Prawns, sure.

Yeah, prawns, clams, sure. The oil. Yeah, we're going to, you've hit the nail on the head there. I mean, salmon and spaghetti. I've definitely had it before and it was nice, but I think it really comes down to what sauce they have with it. It's very creamy isn't it? Yeah, and then it's delicious and they've got that right there. But like, yeah, I know what you mean. I'll be honest, you made something during lockdown that was a salmon pasta.

Yeah, I mean. And it obviously flakes up quite nicely when you're stirring it and you're like, oh this is great. But yeah, on paper. Like I say, if I saw it on a menu in the UK especially, or possibly in Italy, I don't know, but it wouldn't be what I'd go to. But seeing the swordfish thing in a pasta, and also I think perhaps I was thinking, I've never seen this before. I've probably seen it since, but I hadn't seen it perhaps the first time we used to,

because we used to have it a lot in the same restaurant in Sardinia. I kind of thought, oh, we're getting a bit of an insight to local, do you know what I mean? But is this in a pasta? Is this in a pasta? No, it's just not a pasta. It's just as it is. Yeah. Yeah.

What goes over the top of it? Is there like- Well, it's olive oil. Olive oil, yeah. And sometimes- Not disappointing or anything. And sometimes there might even be possibly a tiny bit of onion or maybe even a tiny bit of garlic and stuff. But I think if it's nice enough, I think you can just eat it the way it is. You know?

Yeah. Super light starter just to get you ready. Yeah. And again, the thing with carpaccio for me is that you've really got to be as thin as you can be, like a normal see-through it kind of thing. And then it's sort of, it just takes on another level of loveliness, I think. When it's fat carpaccio, who wants a fat carpaccio? Do you know what I mean? That's just wrong, isn't it? Yeah, that's just sashimi at that point, isn't it? Yeah, it's just weird.

So your dream main course isn't too far from that? No, no, because I've gone full Italian Italian to be honest. We have a lot of memories being together in Italy and I kind of think, and I love Spain as well by the way, I think the food in Spain is just incredible. I think we did definitely have more holidays. We used to go on holiday with one particular family and we went to the same place, 10 years running kind of thing. And our kids kind of were on this little beach where even if we weren't there, and that sounds a bit weird now, but even if we weren't there, we felt they were safe. It was that, it wasn't a big sort of, you know what I mean? It was just like, it's okay. I think there was always

one of us there thinking about it. I think we were left alone. But it had that feel of it, almost like you're in a blightened book. Do you know what I mean? It's like, we're the kids, they're down on the beach. Those kids were always having to face down criminals, Rick. That's an awful example. That's a bad example. Those kids were in a lot of danger all the time. They should have had supervision at all times.

They probably did. They probably did. They were investigating crimes left and right in the centre. I thought you meant the ene blightened kids had supervision. They didn't. They never did. You mean your kids. Unbelievable.

They were left with a dog. Yeah. Just very weird all you man your. Unbelievable. They were left with a dog. Yeah. Yeah. Just very weird all of that. Very weird. So yeah, for a main, I've gone for spaghetti vongole. Nice. But with bataga on top.

Are you aware of bataga? No, I'm not. No. I'm aware of the name. I don't think I know what it is, Rick. Well, I'm going to embarrass myself by not knowing what it is either, but I think what it is is it's eggs from a fish that somehow gets, I think, compacted and then they shave it.

I'm just going to Google Bataga. Has anyone ever Googled on the actual like thing that they brought in? Normally we might bend it. Normally we might bend it, but I think it's fine to have you do it. I've always got a couple of glasses of shawarma in it. Bataga is salted cured fish roe. It is, yeah. I was pretty certain it was by the way.

But then when you just, when you, because when you're just telling a friend about it is one thing, but when you're on a podcast with two gentlemen like yourselves, you think, is that right? And I've never really ever seen it other than in either an Italian restaurant that has a Sardinian owner or chef or connection. There's lots of people in Italy who don't eat it. I don't think. And we just kept seeing it. I just, I I'm having sort of tried it and I just went, oh my God. So what does it taste like? What does it do for the dish? It's very fishy.

Yeah. But again, you know, this thing with fish and pasta and mixing the two things. So spaghetti vongole, yeah, which is a very traditional and if a good one of those, I think it's just amazing. I just love it. The clams and yeah. It's perfect on the water. It just feels you're one with the sea and the whole, you know, but throwing the Bataga on top just adds this other dimension to it. And it just, again,

I think it's fond memories. I think it's happy memories of being on holidays with your kids when they're young and all the rest of it. How do you feel about, because we've talked about Vongolev a couple of times. Harry Hill chose it. Harry Hill chose it. All right. How do you feel about the admin? What do you mean? The shell admin. Oh, I think that's part of the joy. Yeah? Yeah. What you like? Cause I struggle with it. I don't know if you could tell. Cause when I get a meal, I'm ready to just, I'm going straight in.

Well, I do know what you mean. And there are certain things, I'll try and think of one, there are certain things I think, I just can't be bothered. Can't be arse messing. I just want to eat the bloody thing. But with that, I don't mind. It's a bit like when you have, it's a bit like when you have muscles, Mule and do you do that thing where you use one of the shells to pluck out the meat of the- I don't do that. Do you not do that? No, I mean, I rarely get it.

And every time I do get it, I get portrayed with the admin and I splash myself with the, with the juice at some point, because I'm so just trying to get it over and done with. But yeah, the tongs using one of the shells. Yeah. As the tongs to get the other one out. Yeah. I mean, it's quite cruel really. Because this guy, you can see his mate ripping his tummy out. Well, they're dead though aren't they? Depends where you go. So that just reminds me of something while we're on a food conversation here for the podcast. Have you guys been to Japan? Yes. I'm going for the first time.

I've just got back. James is going next month. Oh, amazing. Fantastic. Well, I'm sure you're going to love it. You must have loved it. I'm sure. Incredible. Yeah. So I've been a few times and back in the day in the eighties and stuff. And I remember the second time we went, first time was just promo and stuff. Second time we went for gigs and the promoter took us to this amazing restaurant in a town I think called Nagoya. So, you know, it's still a massive

city but one of the smaller cities as it were. We went to this restaurant and I basically think he was just taking the piss because we were given these bowls like a soup, like a clear soup, but something was still alive swimming around in it. Wow. But didn't have the whole of its body to do so. Yeah. Like tentacles have been put away and things. And that was like a bit of a shock., but didn't have the whole of its body to do so. Like tentacles have been put away and things. And that was like a bit of a shock. So I didn't, and again,

I was 22, 23, do you know what I mean? I wasn't, I traveled a bit by then and I'd eaten in a lot of places and stuff, but it was still- Nothing prepares you for that though, does it? That's nothing compared to what happened next. So they brought out these huge fish that were skewered so they were in like a curve, an arc, you know, tail up and head up. And the meat of the fish had been cut away from its body while it was alive and placed back on the fish. So you were meant to eat it while it looked at you. Oh my God. I mean, look, I am not squeamish, but I think that would put me off. I couldn't do that.

I mean, like your theory about if the olive oil is good, you know, the rest of the meal is going to be nice. When they brought you the little thing swimming around in the bowl, get out. There's a, yeah. Yeah. That alone when you have to make eye contact with the thing you're eating. Yeah. Get out of bloody Marky Desaard's restaurant. Now I don't know whether that might even be a thing anymore and whether they're legally allowed to do it. You know, I'm going back 35 years, you know, so it's, it's a while's a while ago or more even. But I remember just thinking, this is ridiculous. And I was kind

of looking at all the other Japanese people thinking, are you going to eat this? Or is this- Crazy prank on the- Yeah. And I seen prawns cooked on like a tapen yaki, a hot, where they're still alive. They just put them on the thing in front of you. And I know lobsters go in the thing when you're not looking and they just put them in there. I front of you. You know, I don't know lobsters go in the thing when you're not looking and they just put them in there, you know, I don't like all that. Listen, don't get me wrong. I love eating food. I'm not vegetarian. I think about it sometimes. And I do think there's an issue, like I said,

with us, the way we are living at the moment can't really be sustained and all the rest of it. And, but yeah, it's a tricky one. There's a step too far, isn't there? A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I think we definitely have to at least stop making eye contact with the fish while we're eating it alive. Yeah. Let's at least take that step. Having said that, this is just reminding me of something else. And please, this is, this is not, this is not about, right, here we go. So, uh, one of my passions in life has been skiing over the

years. And so I was on holiday skiing with some friends and it was a bit of an occasion and we needed to celebrate something. So we went to this restaurant, which again, I don't think is open anymore, not because of what I'm about to describe. I just think it's not open anymore. And it was called my father's farm, or firm to my pair, whatever, and massive reputation, you know, Michelin stars, all the rest of it. So we went, it's like a 15 course, ladi da, whatever, but you, you, the building is a farm and animals, I'm not saying those animals necessarily, but in other words, pigs, ducks, you know, geese, cows are on the other side of glass beneath you and on the side of you

as you walk into the restaurant. So it's basically like saying, but I don't think on the one end there's nothing wrong with actually explaining it, especially to kids. Cause if kids just think that a slab of meat is just something, you know, they don't connect it to being an animal, that's a whole other issue again. So, but that was pretty, that was a bit, you know, I mean, they weren't dragging animals out and butchering them and you know, but it was still very much like you've just ordered this and that's one of those over there behind that glass. It was a bit weird. Yeah. It's quite confronting, isn't it?

It's good. I mean, yeah, I'm all for it, but I think I wouldn't be able to hack it at the same time and maybe I should reflect on that. Yeah. Well, I'm not, I don't cook a lot. My wife's an amazing cook, an incredible cook and it's one of the main ways that she relaxes and I don't really love it. Does it stress you out? Yeah, if it's for anybody else, yes. You know, I'm not averse to making an omelette or making something for myself, cobbling something together. But the reason I was mentioning this is that if someone said, right, there's a joint, there's an actual big piece of an animal, make it. Or even a

chicken. Getting a chicken out of its packaging from the supermarket and putting it in the oven is a bit like, wow. Do you know what I mean? Whereas when it's cooked and it's on your plate, it's just very different. It is, yeah. And don't get those mixed up, Rick, otherwise you're gonna have another one of those incidents. Exactly. You're gonna be canceling more gigs. Yeah.

Your dream side dish, Rick. Oh, sorry, yeah. Well, I'm going really traditional again. All the things I've chosen, I think, are pretty traditional in a beachside Italian restaurant. So I'm going rocket and parmesan, which you know, the thing with rocket as well, or arugula as the Americans say, is when it's good, it's amazing. It's almost breathtaking. Again, it's back to that thing of the very peppery sort of thing about olive oil sometimes where you

go, and it literally goes to the back of your throat and goes, oh my God, you know, and you kind of forget sometimes just how amazing it is. Like, you know, we've all been having that as a salad for years now, but remember as a kid, I say as a kid, a young man in an Italian restaurant and me thinking, oh, well, that's just some kind of leaf salad thing and eating it and going, Jesus, you know. It is a shock the first time you have rocket.

Yeah. It's mind blowing. And also Parmesan's a big thing in our house. Oh yeah? Oh yeah. My wife doesn't really eat dessert. She doesn't eat sweet things particularly. You should leave her.

But at the end of dinner in restaurants, she very often will say, can I have a, just a bit, I don't want a cheese board. I don't want a whole selection or what I just give me a big block of Parmesan and a nice glass of red wine. Well, that is, I mean, that is one of the ballsiest moves I've ever heard of being in a restaurant, give me a big chunk of Parmesan. She is a ballsy woman.

Believe me. She is. That's a real curve ball, isn't it? For the people working there. Maybe, but I think there's a, there's an element of, um, it depends, doesn't it? It depends what kind of a restaurant you're in. Sometimes, and even some of the ones which do have like a Michelin star and they're like very noticed of it. Sometimes I think they are more accommodating than people would think they are sometimes. Not always. Sometimes it's like, that's what

we make, fuck off if you don't want it that way and do it. But sometimes they kind of get it that people go, you know what, I just, is there any chance, you know, any chance? Did she go through the like rigmarole of like looking at the dessert menu and go, hmmm, I just have a big block of Parmesan please. She'll kind of have a scan of it and she will have a spoonful of mine or someone's, but she's not really, it's just not where she's at at all. There's pretty much nothing in the world of dessert that she's interested in. It just doesn't do it for her. My mind boggling.

I'm going to try that. Yeah, I'm sure you will. Because I would, I love just a big block of Parmesan. Too right. That's the red wine with it, especially. It's just like, yeah. This is what we've learned today. And I don't know what order these episodes are going to go out in that we've recorded today. This will be Rick first. Well, then this is a flash forward. Yeah.

In that case. But a guest earlier said uh, and if the listeners can figure out which guess this was, make sure you tweet the podcast and Benito was sent to a signed chopping board. Um, said that, um, Christopher Walken said to always start a meal with Parmesan and red wine. Christopher Walken wasn't our guest. Oh, that wasn't a guest. Our last guest said that Christopher Walken said in an interview to always start a meal with just a block of Parmesan and red wine.

And that's never come up in the podcast before. And you're literally our next guest and you said Parmesan and red wine is great. Weird. That is very strange. And I have Parmesan in the fridge at home and God knows I've got some red wine. God knows. I'm going to do that tonight. Do it.

I went to a restaurant once called Beast. I don't know if it's still there, but the starter was literally, it was quite early on in the life of this restaurant and there's only one starter and they brought you like a huge chunk of Parmesan that you could absolutely never finish and, and a knife and you just hacked off bits of Parmesan. Is that here in London? Yeah, yeah. It's run by the, you know, you know, Goodman steak houses. I think it's one of their places. It rings a bell that name, but I can't, I don't know whether...

I think it's changed a bit now, but it was like Parmesan and then steak and like, I think lobster. But it was like very ridiculously over the top restaurant. But yeah, I loved it. Well, your dream drink then. So we got that nice salad. It's a Chardonnay. It's an Italian Chardonnay. It's an Antinori basically. And the reason I'm sort of like stumbling over saying that and everything is because of how expensive it is. It's ludicrously expensive. And it wouldn't be an everyday, you know, but I'm in my favorite restaurant, Dream Restaurant, you know, all the rest of it. Why not?

But I'm in my favorite restaurant, Dream Restaurant, you know, all the rest of it. Why not? Again, you don't see it everywhere, but when you see it, and I had a very weird experience in Italy recently. And that was that, it's a long story, but I was picking, I don't fly that often. So I drive everywhere. Like, you know, I've driven to Budapest a few times and Southern Portugal, outer Northern Norway and everywhere. I've driven across America a few times and around Australia, outer northern Norway and everywhere. I've driven across America a few times and around Australia because I don't like flying that

much. I do do it obviously, but I'm saying I cut it down. And I like doing the drive as well. And also I think I've done an awful lot of traveling, especially when I was younger, where I was on planes all the freaking time and you arrive somewhere and you go, oh, okay, I'm in the back of a car and I saw this and I saw that. And then I've been to Rome but I've got no freaking clue about Italy or what it's like or anything. And driving there you get a sense of it because you just stay in places and do stuff. Anyway, on with the story. So I'm going to pick my wife and a friend up in the airport in Rome. So the night before I just stayed outside of Rome on the coast, actually funnily enough, in a little place, not a fancy place at all. It was just me. And very often I'll just think, I'm not going to spend a fortune,

I'm only going to be there to sleep. So, da, da, da. And I go downstairs and I went into the little restaurant they had and it was, it was like, there was nothing, it was lovely, but there's nothing amazing about this place, not what you're expecting. I'm looking on the wine list and I see this wine and I sort of think, no, no, no, hang on a second. And it has got a younger brother, by the way, which is about half the price. And I kept reading it going, I think what they've done is here, it's the younger brother, but they've written it like it's the big brother. So I said, can I have a look at that wine?

And he said, yeah. So over he goes, or I think maybe I went to their wine cabinet and I'd look at it. They had like a glass, you know, I thought, no, that's pretty much, that's, you know, and it was literally, it was stupid the price of it. It was like so much so that when I told my, and it was literally, it was stupid, the price of it. It was like so much so that when I told my wife and her friend the day after they said, well, perhaps we should just go back and buy everything they've got. It was too cheap. Yeah, yeah.

And I felt guilty about it actually. I kept thinking, no, no, I should have told them, should have told them. And anyway, whatever, it's been a dilemma ever since. But it is phenomenal this wine. And my favourite wine anyway is Chardonnay and Chardonnay's got a bit of a bad rep I think over the last 15 years. I was like, oh Chardonnay, I don't want to drink that. Footballers call their kids Chardonnay. I don't want to drink that nonsense. Which is absolutely bollocks because the finest white burgundy you can possibly have is Chardonnay. People just don't call it that necessarily upfront because it's sort of frightened

everyone into thinking it's like, you know, do you know what I mean? Well, there was that ABC thing for a long time. Yeah. And it's sort of got a bit of a bad rep and it's sort of annoys me when I go into a restaurant and they don't have a Chardonnay by the glass. It really annoys me because I'm like, you're reacting to that. You're not reacting to whether it's good or not. And we've traveled a lot in America and got a lot of American friends and some of their chardonnays are just unbelievable. My

daughter and quite a few of her friends and family friends have this thing about me liking buttery chardonnay. So much so that it's almost become ridiculous. So like if we're having a glass of wine, like in Copenhagen and stuff, they're all looking at me waiting for me to go, now that's buttery. Is it buttery, Rick? It's become like this sort of thing. But anyway. That is such a classic dad bullying thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You find the thing. You find the one bit of happiness your dad has. Yeah. And then destroy it. And then you make it a thing of mockery.

But also to be fair, I think she and some of her friends have been grateful the fact that you know, I bring nice bottles of wine to drink and stuff. I've pushed them in certain directions and stuff. And I think over the years, I love red wine by the way, I really do. But obviously with the things I've chosen, I wanted a white. And this is just phenomenal. It's just absolutely gorgeous. And I thought beer might come up. I thought we might be in for a beer.

Cause you've got the middle of us. I do love beer, but I think, I think for me, beer is something I drink in a bar or a pub or at home, but if I'm in a restaurant, I think the connection of food, depending on what it is, if you're having a burger or you're having something that's a bit more, yeah, I get it. But if you're going to eat like swordfish and pasta and you know, I'm going wine every day, you know what I mean? So that wine sounds absolutely delicious.

It is amazing. I almost toyed with the idea of bringing one and then I thought, you motherfucker. Yeah, I know what you see. Why are you dangling my panellists now? You didn't bring us to the expensive wine damn it Rick Ashley I know but I did think about it and then I thought I thought no you're gonna want to do because what extremely nice wine okay okay well next time also the next thought was probably no I just say that say that for myself and my

family no no but I have they have that for myself and my family. Yeah, I've got that. They have the little problem. But one of the things about wine, and also the thing you mentioned, the beer thing, because of the Mikkeler guys and everything, is that when I grew up as a kid, wine was not really a thing. Nobody I knew had wine at dinner. You know, I'm from a small Northern town and blah, blah, and all the rest of it, you know, where we eat coal and all that. It, it's just, it just wasn't on the, you know, and I think I've loved the fact that

I've been introduced to that from being about 21 really. Cause the weird thing was when I had that first record out and everything, it was, it was a really big hit at the time. You know, it's had its life and everything, but so I got taken to restaurants that were just off the scale as a 21 year old and probably didn't really appreciate it. And also because we were kind of doing it a lot because I think I came to realize that somebody at the record company think great, he's at a number one, so I can take him to

this restaurant or whatever. And we were going there because they wanted to, not because I wanted to. I would have much rather gone out and had a burger and a few beers and hung out with younger people at the record label. But obviously the CEO and the God knows what would be taking you out because they're like, well, we can go to, you know, whatever. The one upside of that I think was, and I wasn't a wine drinker at all. And it took me quite a while, I think, to actually get into it. And also I would say, and this is a real knobby thing to say, but it's just the goddamn truth.

If you've got a bit of money, you can take that further. And you can buy nice wine that's not that super expensive. And we drink wine at home on a more regular basis that isn't super expensive for lots of reasons. And that is, I think, one of the main ones is that if you find something that you like, again, it's a slightly different thing. I mean, I've got friends who drink certain kinds of wine. I'm like, I'm not drinking any of that muck. I'd rather have a cup of

tea. I am not drinking that. Again, I'm imagining all this happening in your actual life where you go to a friend's house and they're all drinking wine. You're like, put the kettle on. Yeah, fuck off. I'm not drinking that shit. And if you think I'm dipping my bread in that, you're totally mistaken. No, but wine is a really weird thing because you become accustomed and it doesn't have to be super expensive and upscale and all the rest of it. You just sort of get a taste for what you like.

It's a bit like when you're on holiday and something locally tastes great and you bring it home and it doesn't. And it's like, yeah, I think your taste buds are informed by other stuff. It's not just, you know, and there's a Chardonnay we drink at home all the time. It's about, I think it used to be about a tenner, it's probably 12 quid now from one of the big wine distributors

that we all know. And we drink gallons of this stuff because it's just like, it's got this, it is French, it's a Chardonnay, blah, blah, blah, but it's not produced in Burgundy. It's a long story. How boring is this? No, I love it. Okay, whatever. Anyway, so it's, it was an experiment. I read about it. It was an experiment. I think it's Louis Littor.

I'm pretty certain it is. And he had an experiment. I don't think he exists as a person anymore. I think it's long gone. He had an experiment to say, I'm going to, I'm going to produce it somewhere else. I'm going to, you know, produce a Chardonnay, but not in this region. And equivalent wise, in other words, what I'm trying to say is for 12 quid, you're probably drinking 30 pounds worth of wine.

Yeah. But because it's slightly different geographical location. It's not from, and so it's like, it's a bit like the champagne thing, right? If you like your bubbly whatevers, you don't have to drink champagne to drink a nice one anymore. I mean England's making really good sparkling wine and everything. I was going to call it champagne that you're not allowed to. You're not allowed to. Fuck off. You're not allowed to. Do you know what I mean? God, it bugs the ass off me that. Anyway, there you go. I definitely want to make a documentary about you at a dinner party. Yeah.

I can't fucking call it champagne if I want to. Come on, fuck off. No, but it's... Yeah, quite often if you can buy wines produced near to some of the massive vineyards that are literally next door. Totally, 100%. Literally all that separates them is a fence. The terroir is exactly the same. The weather is obviously exactly the same. It's going to taste as good and is like a cause for the cost. I would agree with that wholeheartedly, but I've had one or two experiences that have literally melted my mind, right? And this is, we have a couple of friends who we didn't know that well at the time, because I'm going back quite some years, I'm going back 15, 16, maybe more years. Around it there's Virginia and Peter is his name, I can say Peter, I'm

not going to tell you his last name, but Peter. Seriously into wine and my God, you know, I've been so embarrassed bringing over bottles to their house going like, Oh Jesus, I should have, you know, pushed the bar a bit more. But he's not like that at all. He just wants people to taste it and he's been like collecting wine all his life kind of thing almost, if you like, and investing in it. Again, not mega wealthy, not like sort of like just loves wine, just loves wine, and would rather drive a car that's older, but drink this wine, do you know what I mean?

Or whatever it is. And my wife and I have been at theirs for dinner, and this other friend who's been around, right? And they have brought bottles of wine from Burgundy, white Burgundy. And I think I would imagine that's harder to do than red wine, to be honest. They've brought them and the other person has told them the year, the vintage and what exactly it is. And we're talking about the fields that when you go

on one of those wine tours or one of those wine trips, as you say, well, it's that field over there that produces that and the field over there produces that and they are different and they're da-da-da-da and all this to it. And those mothers have actually told the other one what they've served. And I've just gone, what are you doing? How have you done this? How do you do that? And they say, you have to drink an awful lot of wine. Take a sip and go, it's fun. From that field. The year. And literally the field it came from, because they've said, this is a mer-so,

but it's a da-da-da-da. And you go, fuck off. And then it dawned on me eventually because I've been to Bonne for instance and that area where loads of times actually, not just for wine, it's halfway to skiing. So you know, halfway to the south of France and I drive everywhere. And when you are in one of those areas and you're thinking, okay, well, I guess if this is what you drink a lot of, especially when you're pushing the boat out a bit, there's still quite a lot, but you could get used to it. You know what I mean?

You could sort of go, no, I kind of know what this is. It's not like you said, oh, well, actually, I brought you some chili and chardonnay. They'd probably have no clue whatsoever. It's probably not on their radar as much. Well, I'm saying that. He knows about some of them as well, because he bought me a really nice bottle

of chili and chardonnay once as well. I was like, oh my God. I can do it with Ben and Jerry's. Yeah, James can do it with Ben and Jerry's. Oh really? Tell you what flavour. So you like a sweet sweet. And who made it, Ben or Jerry? Every time.

Is that your thing then, dessert and like sweets? Love dessert, that's why. This is a big moment coming up now, right? Yeah, yeah, well when you get to your dream dessert now, and I swear to God, if you skip this like your god damn wife, No, no, I would never skip dessert. And even if I'm not really in the mood for one I'm definitely the person at the table when everyone's got a gun. No, no, I don't really want to dessert I'm like box and I order something for the table. Yeah, I order at least one or two

So what's your what's your choice? I've gone for tiramisu and I know I can feel people at home going, mmm, I'm novel. But I kind of think it's like a good tiramisu. Do you like dessert? I do. I really like dessert. I'm more of a starters guy. I'm more of a savoury guy, but I will, you know, if I'm out with this guy, I'm having dessert.

Because we're all having dessert. A good tiramisu is a pretty amazing, wonderful thing. And again, that's probably one of the first desserts I would have eaten. I don't think I had it as a kid. I don't think I went to many Italian restaurants before I was 21. I might have done in London once or twice, do you know what I mean? So Tiramisu was a bit of a sort of like, what is that? And then I think it's just become a good one is amazing. It really is amazing. I had the best one of my life recently.

Oh really? So did I. So yeah, we went to different places. Oh, that's weird. Bristol, a place called Core, C-O-R, did a Sicilian style tiramisu where instead of sponge fingers they used panettone. Oh. I've said it on the podcast before, I don't know what audit's going to come out in, but

I'm going to keep saying it every time tir miss who comes up because it was like Christmas pudding to him as soon it was incredible and it was only on the menu for one day as a special and I want to try and bully the restaurant into having it permanently on the menu. So the more I say on the podcast, the more people are going to go in and hopefully I can throw my weight around and make that happen because it was one of the best desserts I've ever had anywhere. Definitely the best to've ever had. It drove me crazy. Mine was in Manchester. New restaurant called Scoff, brilliant chef called Tom Barnes, just opened insanely like wonderful tasting menu. And at the end, like you're so used to all of

these beautifully put together things on a tasting menu. They just serve you up like a big helping of this tiramisu that he used to make for his dad, like just before his dad passed. So it's like, it means so much and he comes to the table and explains that. And it's just, I think cause I think the cream is infused with coffee as well. Like, so it's just got that coffee hit. Oh my God. I can't wait. Yeah. One of the things I love and I kind of touched on it a little bit is when you go somewhere

and they are incredible and they can do all the kind of like almost chemistry stuff, but they can still relate to the fact that fish fingers are pretty good. So if we could invent the fish finger again, or like Heston Blumenthal does mad things, doesn't he? But even you can go somewhere and they go, well, it's a tiramisu, but it's got that in it, or it's got that in it. Whichever one, either one we talked about just then. It's like, it is that. And maybe the purists who say, no, a tiramisu should only ever be this. I get that as well. But I just think you guys sound like you go to a lot of high end. Now and again, but you know, not all of the time. I think.

Yeah, but definitely more since doing this podcast and getting into that more. But yeah, we're not going all the time, but like when we do, it's pretty much, especially cause we're doing this podcast, your brain's automatically on record and you're like, right, what am I eating? What do I love? Can't wait to talk about that. And yeah, you remember even more. And I'm going to that place that Ed just said soon. So I'm very much looking forward to that. Yeah. I'm bringing my dad with me. That's his favorite dessert, tiramisu. And that's, Ed says that's the best tiramisu he's ever had.

So I'm very much looking forward to just watching my dad while he eats that and says it's buttery. And he can't have the one in Bristol unless they put it back on the menu. Yeah. So unless I successfully bully them, which I will successfully bully you if you're listening to this. I know you listen to this owner of core because you said when I went in to the restaurant that you listen to off menu. So I know that you're listening to this, put it on the menu. I'm

going to bully the hell out of you. But your tiramisu that you want, classic tiramisu. Yeah, I think I just go, I mean, generally speaking, I may have had one bad tiramisu in Italy, but like I can't even remember doing so. It's something that people have done for their kids and their kids and their kids. It's just forever, isn't it? Someone's gran or granddad has always been making a tiramisu somewhere in Italy. And it's just part of the fabric of Italian food and sort of Italian life to some degree. A bit like an espresso. And that's one thing I was going to say because do you go in? I mean, I can't finish today without having an espresso, you see one thing I was gonna say because do you go in? I mean, I can't finish today without having an espresso you see.

Absolutely. That's just not. I mean, yeah. Absolutely. We'll send you that. I love coffee. I do love coffee at the end of a meal. Every now and again, if I've had a very special meal and we've maybe added a few little bits and bobs here and that, you know, maybe if we started, if someone has a good idea of starting with cocktails and you all have a martini or whatever at the top, usually by the end you've done a few special things and I think having the

idea to have a coffee at the end is pretty great. Yeah, I just love it. I kind of think it's, there's just something about it I think. Rounds it off. Yeah. It's a full stop on it. It does. And again, I think anyone who likes coffee is, you know, we've all gone past that thing

of crap coffee kind of thing. Do you know what I mean? It does infuriate me a tiny bit sometimes how expensive a coffee can be. And again, I don't know whether they still do this, but in Italy it always used to be you couldn't pay more than a euro for one. Right. If you stood at the bar and ordered an espresso, they weren't legally allowed to charge you more than a euro, which I thought was pretty amazing really. You do have to like neck it and leave, right?

Yeah. That's true. a euro, which I thought was pretty amazing really. You do have to like neck it and leave, right? That's true. Is that like when people say people have to accept stamps as legal tender? Is that a real thing? No, it was a real thing. They're not allowed to charge you more than a quid for it. No, it was a real thing. So even if you went into like, you know, a five star hotel or whatever in Rome or wherever and went into the bar area and said, can I have an espresso

and stood there? I don't think they were allowed to charge you more than the euro for it, I think. We won't charge you anything for this espresso. It's the dream. Thank you. Or we'll charge you one euro if it makes you feel better. It's a good idea, yeah. I know you're back to you now, so you feel about it. You would like still tap water.

You would like Italian bread with olive oil. Starter, the Swordfish Cup. Swordfish Carpaccio, that's the one I struggled with, is the word swordfish. Main course, spaghetti al vongole with bataga, side dish of rocket and parmesan. You drink, you'd like an Antinori Chardonnay, and dessert, tiramisu, followed by Nespresso.

And of course, I will send over a block of parmesan for your wife. Thank you, she'd appreciate that big time. Thank you so much for coming to the Dream Restaurant, Rick. Pleasure, thank you. Thank you, Rick. I've enjoyed it. Thank you. Well, there we are, James, the lovely Rick Astley.

Thank you so much, Rick, for coming in. Thank you, Rick. What a lovely menu as well. Lovely menu. And that's what I meant when I said he dipped his toe into the world of food and drink. Yes. He has bars. Yes. Bars is very nice. Bars as well, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. Get yourself along there. Good. Yes. Have a crisp pint. Have a crisp pint. Yes, please. Yes. Yes. And I would say never walk past one of those bars. Always go in. Just like, and that reminds me of the book Never. That's out. The autobiography of Rick Astley.

That was less good than in the actual interview. That was less of a good link than it was in the actual interview. I got my confidence up about segways. See, that's when you're at your worst when your confidence is up. Never is out on the 10th of October. He's doing a book tour as well.

So people can go in here, Rick, read the book, talk about the book Maybe there'll be a q a who's to say i'm not in charge and all details of that are on rick's social media Get on it people exciting stuff And of course rick did not say seven up. Thank you for not saying never gonna give him seven up We were never gonna give you seven up. I'm back on tour doing my show hot diggity dog Going to lots of different places head gamble.co.uk for tickets Doing another big London show in November if you've not seen the show so far come and see me at the London Palladium in November

My boy my it's my favorite show of heads. Thank you James loved it And I've consistently laughed my head off every time I see a gamble so that is saying something bless you Ghostbusters frozen Empire is available on to us to to stream on demand But remember if you are watching it online don't cross the streams. Oh good slime is still advertising it I'm still seeing Slimer on billboards posters that guy is on he's at the grindstone. Yeah, he really is He's like Rick Astley after you release his first single the rest of us have moved on from ages ghost slimer is Absolutely, but what other projects has he got going on? Yeah, nothing. I've got to send him a little something. What's he gonna do? Yeah, keep sliming people soft. What I better promote it

Yeah, imagine Slimer in a different film Goes for auditions apparently yeah never gets it. They always end in slime always in this life. See you next week! It's Sarah and Kariad from the Weirdos Book Club and we're very excited to announce our Incredibly special guest for our live show as part of the London Literature Festival We are going to be joined by the absolute megastar that is Dame Harriet Walter You'll know her from Succession, Killing Eve, Ted Lasso and we are very lucky that she'll be there to discuss her new book She speaks what Shakespeare's women might have said. Harriet Walter has reimagined what some of Shakespeare's women might have been secretly thinking and lets them actually speak their minds. We're so excited. It's on Saturday the 2nd of November and you can get tickets now from southbankcentre.co.uk

or plosive.co.uk. Join us.