Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 284: Meera Sodha

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

Superb chef, food writer and author (including one of Off Menu’s favourite cookbooks, ‘East’) Meera Sodha joins us for a Dream Restaurant booking this week. If anyone says ‘ship’ they have to put 50p in the Naan Jar. Meera Sodha’s new cookbook ‘Dinner’ is out now, published by Penguin. Buy it here. For more of her books visit Meera’s website, meerasodha.com/books Follow Meera on Instagram @meerasodha Off Menu is a comedy podcast hosted by Ed Gamble and James Acaster.Produced, recorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Video production by Megan McCarthy for Plosive.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography and design).Follow Off Menu on Twitter and Instagram: @offmenuofficial.And go to our website www.offmenupodcast.co.uk for a list of restaurants recommended on the show.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the off menu podcast putting the grapes of conversation into the freezer of humor taking them out putting them in the orange squash of the internet you got yourself a summer cocktail. A call back to a previous episode that I didn't see coming. Ed, you always keep me on my toes. That's Ed Gamble. My name is James A. Castle. Together we own a dream restaurant.

And every single week we're inviting a guest and asking her favourite ever star and make us a side dish and drink. Not in that order. And this week our guest is Mirror Soda. Mirror Soda, wonderful chef, makes incredible cookbooks. I've said it on the podcast before potentially, I've definitely said it to you James, that East is one of my favourite cookbooks

ever. It is brilliant, it's vegetarian and vegan recipes, just fantastic dishes, easy to do, but you feel like you've really nailed it. It's's so delicious I know Benito's a fan as well. Benito's a huge fan and also good news for you guys dinner is out Mira's new book. Yes and we've had a little flick through dinner and it looks fantastic I feel like I'm gonna get just as addicted to that book as I do to East. Yeah and we'll be hearing more about that book when we talk to Mira, what the book is about, what inspired the book. But listen, maybe that'll be all Mira will get to say on the podcast because if she

chooses the secret ingredient, an ingredient which we deem to be unacceptable, we will be forced to kick her out of the dream restaurant. And today the secret ingredient is soda bread. A bit of a lazy one this. Yeah, pretty lazy, but sometimes the first choice is the best. Yeah, Benito was trying to think of like foods that had yeast in them. I suggested yeast and he laughed like I was joking, which I wasn't. Yeah, and it's done way worse than yeast.

Yeah, to be fair. But yeah, soda bread. You know, we're playing a dicey game here. This could be the first. It could be early on. I don't think soda bread has yeast in it. Interesting. Oh, wow. Very interesting.

But yeah, if Mirra literally on Pappadoms or bread chooses soda bread. I bet it does now. I'm gonna get absolutely flamed online. Yeah, that'll be bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because like, very excited about this episode. A lot of people are gonna be very excited to hear it,

hear what Mirra Soda was to eat. You know, like when we do have a fantastic chef on, there are always amazing menus. It would be pretty bad if we kick her out. Yeah. Early on. Yeah. Well, let's hope she doesn't pick bread named after herself.

Yeah. Well, fingers crossed. This is the off-menu menu of Mirror Soda. Welcome Mirror to the Dream Restaurant. Thank you so much for having me. Welcome Mirror Soda to the Dream Restaurant. We've been expecting you for some time. Woo, it's glorious to be here. It's very glorious to have you here.

I don't think I've ever had a cookbook recommended to me as much as East. Well, I don't think I've ever had a cookbook recommended to me, let alone multiple times. We're on a text group with a bunch of comics, about 11 comedians, and someone said, what's a good cookbook? About half the group said you, and then got really excited about everyone else knowing about it. And I was like, it's a lot when everyone was talking about DaVinci Code, but cookbooks. That's really nice to hear. Yeah. I was one of the people recommending East. I've already waxed lyrical to you before

we started recording. I'll do it some more now. I'm absolutely obsessed with it. My shelf in my kitchen is pristine cookbooks and then East in the middle that looks like it's been dipped in a full like pan of sauce Just covered in food stains. It is well used well thumbed. I love it Oh, don't I mean I'm brown, but I feel like I'm slowly turning red Flushing thank you. That's very kind of you Do you get a lot of people come up to you and be like, I made this the other day from your cookbook? Yeah. I think one of the first time it happened, I was in Marks and Spencer's shopping for some knickers, which is definitely not what you want to be approached by someone saying,

I've got your doll in my freezer. Yeah. Like a hostage. That's sinister. I shouldn't have said that to you. I've since then never bought pants in Marks and Spencer's again. No, get them online. Just get them online. You can't, you can't be risking dull in the freezer moments. I remember when I was a kid in Marks and Spencer with my dad, walking through the ladies underwear section.

I was like little primary school and I was like, dad, it's like the most awkward thing walking through this section. Like how do you, how do you even do it? And he was like, you get used to it over the years. He told me, told me I'd get used to it as I get older, it'd be easier to walk through there. How does it feel now? It's still crazy, man.

I could go and tell people I've got their dial in my freezer. It doesn't make it any less tense. Was this a woman who told you that? Yes, it was a woman. That's better, I'd say, than a man coming up to you in the knickers section and going, I've got your dal in my freezer. Once I was in the dal section of a cookery place.

But of course, we're very excited about dinner, the new book, your new cookbook. Well, Mocky tells about it, but also it says on the front, 120 vegan and vegetarian recipes for the most important meal of the day. I've been lied to my whole life. People tell me that's breakfast. Yep. Breakfast is for wimps. Do away with lunch. Lunch could be leftovers. Yeah. Dinner. I mean, I love dinner. Dinner is the meal, you know, I kind of think of it as like a button that you can push and depending on the kind of day that you've had, it's like

a response button. You've had a crap day. dinner will make it all right, you know, you share it with friends. You don't do that with breakfast, you don't do it with lunch. I've seen people eating lunch in their offices. They're just like, you know, tuna mayo all over their faces whilst they're like trying to write an email out at the same time. Well, I wrote the book following quite a difficult period in my life, where I fell out of love with cooking and food, which is kind of crazy for me because food is like life and joy and everything and also how I pay my mortgage, it's my job, it's how I show love. And so, you know, I knew I needed to find a way to cooking quickly, you know, kind of

getting out of this hole. And so dinner is really, it's actually quite a joyful book because it's all the recipes that I cooked that allowed me to come back to myself and back to the kitchen and back to cooking step by step, meal by meal. And so it's a very personal book. And it's also like quite a selfish book. Like before we started recording, you were talking about like how dishes can look amazing and taste rubbish. And this is almost the opposite. I'm not saying they look rubbish and they taste amazing, but really they come from the heart and they're really dishes that I love to cook and eat. And those are like dals and no one, I'm sure many people photograph dals, but dals is dals. You can't sort of

sexy it up too much. It's just dark. And like beans and things like that, or like spaghetti, just things I just love eating. I love sharing and I love cooking. So like how, how did you like fall back in love with like cooking and what advice would you give other people who may be, you know, their passion turned into their job and now they're falling out of love with, I don't know, podcasting. Oh no, I didn't even think you were going to say podcasting. Well, um, I thought you were just talking about stand up.

No, I love stand up now. I cured myself. This is a new person. So come and lie down on my couch, James. Well, there was like a particular moment. I'm not saying I've got like, um, great advice for anybody out there, but there was like a turning point for me. And so I wasn't really cooking because I didn't really want to sort of eat it, eating all sorts of stuff, you know, assembly things. And Hugh, my husband was seeing like all of the cooking and looking after me and the kids. And then one day, I think it's starting to crack under the pressure. He said, I'd love it if you can cook me a meal. And it wasn't him saying, you know, cook for me wifey. It was him saying, you know, I'm really struggling

and I just want you to show me some love. And it just snapped me out, you know, in this genie like way. I just ran into the kitchen, grabbed a pan. We relate to this. And coconut milk, lentils, I keep all my aromatics like lemongrass, lime leaves, things like that in the freezer.

And I put together this Malaysian dhal curry, which is still something that I cook on a weekly basis. And I kind of felt that it was something different, right? Because for years up until that moment, so I started my career in 2012, the first cookbook that I wrote was a family cookbook. But after that, I was writing for other people. I was writing for the newspaper. I was writing for books. I was writing for

incremental gains on Instagram. Is this recipe going to get some likes? Is it interesting? Is it innovative? And it didn't come from my belly and my joy. It wasn't, you know, like I was kind of writing a recipe. Let's say, you know, I've got two kids and Hugh and all day I'd be writing this lime pickle recipe. Kids come home, Hugh comes home, nobody can eat lime pickle for dinner. You know, that's not fun. Greg Davis found your house. So I just kind of had to re-find my pleasure. And so I just promised myself that I would start to cook again because that's what this dal like I could feel like it was almost like, you know, when your lungs just fill full of air,

like you feel great all of a sudden and my fingers were like fizzing, like kind of electric, you know, I just felt like there was something different then. And I was like, I really wanted to cook for him. I really enjoyed it. And so I started keeping a notebook, this like orange notebook that we keep by the microwave. It's got a sticker of a horse on it. We're going to give it to the girls when they go to university. The stickers aren't important in this case. No, it's an important detail.

It's how we can identify it. And all the recipes that we love as a family go in there. And so I started keeping notes. And then I just, you know, suddenly this book just started to fill up. And then I spoke to my editor and I was like, there's something here. I really want to share these recipes. They've really given me back like a sense of myself and they're really simple recipes. You know, there's a thread running through all of my books. Like if you like East, you'll love dinner. But like they're kind of Southeast Asian, vegan, vegetarian

predominantly, but there's more like bung it in the oven dishes, like a paneer butter masala that I cook all the time, which I love because it just allows me to like hear the girls talk about like plot twists in like Paw Patrol or whatever it is that they're watching or like. They have plot twists in Paw Patrol? Turns out they're humans dressed as dogs. That's the big twist. Spoiler alert.

Has anyone listened to it? They're fairies. They're all fairies. That's the big twist. Spoiler alert. Has anyone listened to it? They're fairies. They're all fairies. Oh no. Foot patrol. Which I just love, you know, it's just a nice way of cooking or like putting something, like I like that style of cooking where you're like bunging stuff into a pot.

One ingredient after another suddenly alchemizes into dinner and like the windows steam up, the smell rises through the house. And so like it's less, oh, I hesitate to say this, I'm throwing shade on my other books, but I don't mean to do that, but it's less fussy, you know, it's much more like kind of homely comfort food, that sort of thing. That's the sort of food I like cooking the most, I think, when you can put it all in a pot and then just leave it and it just, time is the ingredient that makes it the best.

I love it. Oh, that hit me right there. Yeah. Time is ingredient? You're not thinking of the herb, right? Huh? Are you thinking of the herb or? Oh.

I think it just looked like he was hit by how profound the statement was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a profound guy. That happens about five times an episode. Were you saying the herb or time? No, I'm saying time. T-I-M-E. Oh, right. Okay. I missed that. Beautiful. Who's that man? That's you. That's you. That's your husband. So next to you, you're eating the food. He's got to be happy with that. Absolutely. He's in the book. Yeah. I was, I always wondered

that with cookbooks when you're flicking through and there's just people who aren't the chef. Yeah. We're just hanging out with them. I'm just like, who's that? What's that? What's that recipe for James? That sounds amazing.

Taipei? Yeah. Crispy pancakes with Gruyere. And kimchi. So the Taiwanese name for these pancakes is, is, is better than my title because they're called Dan Bing, which always makes me think of Chandler Bing. Yeah, Chandler Bing's brother. Chandler Bing's brother.

And you've bookmarked, this is your copy I've got. This is my copy. You've bookmarked Sweet Potatoes Summer Rolls. Have I? Yes. I have. Well, I'm not sure if Mira's bookmarked it or not, because there appears to be one of her child's drawings in there. Well, I didn't want to. It's nice actually, isn't it? Some colour in it. And a little

note that says that they love you. Isn't that nice? It is very lovely. Between Ed's profound statement about time and a child writing about their love for their mother, this has been quite a moving episode. I went through probably a couple of months with the Ben Ben Noodles in East where I was pretty much, yeah, Benito Benito noodles, where I was pretty much doing them four or five times a week. I mean, that sauce as well, just the tahini, the chili oil, the vinegar and the soy together with noodles, you could just have that. It's incredible.

Just the sauce. Just the sauce is amazing. But with the, this is the shiitake mushrooms and Szechuan peppercorns and then that thing of pushing them into the pan until they're super crispy with the noodles and pak choi and stuff. What a recipe that is. It's wild, isn't it? And the most important ingredient? Tome. We always start with still a spark in water.

Sparkles for sure, but without the ice. I mean, I know you haven't mentioned ice, but sparkles without ice. So I am a cactus. Sorry? As you can see, I have not touched my water and I have to force myself to do what comes naturally to other people. And that means drinking sparkling water when I'm out. I mean, obviously when I'm at home, I don't drink water. You just don't drink water at all. No, I just drink tea now at home. That's got water in it. Yeah, that's water. It has. Well, I mean, look, yeah, it's still all sparkling water is the name of the course, but if you

want to hack it and just have a cup of tea instead. You could argue that's mainly water. You came here today, I mean, you had a coffee when you arrived. Benito was very excited to show you his milks. Remember that? That is true. He was very boastful about how many different milks he had. He was.

He was quite excited about it. Were you surprised when it was only three milks? It was only three milks. Because of the way he set it up? Yeah, I think, I mean, he's obviously honed it down to a fine art, the offering of the milk menu. But he was very arrogant at the top, like up top when he was like, you want milk? I'll get so much milk.

And then it was like, there's just three of them. Drinking a pack of the milks. Yeah, he went, whatever milk you want milk? I'll get so much milk. And then it was like, is this free of him? Take your pack of the milk. Yeah. He went, whatever milk you can imagine. I've got it. And then it was like free milk. It was a bit sad. It was a good precursor to being in the dream restaurant. I thought that, you know, it was like, you want milk, any milk, I got milk. Yeah. But then what did he have? He had like... He didn't have camel milk.

No, he didn't have camel milk for one. Have you tried camel milk before? I've never tried it. I really thought you had tried it. I thought you were... I mean, the person that's... That sounded like you had an anecdote about when you tried camel milk. I'm hoping to find out at some point what it's like without actually having to drink it myself.

So I do ask people randomly because they sell it in a local supermarket. Oh, really? A supermarket close to me. So I must find somebody locally eventually if I keep on asking the question. Camels also don't drink that much water, right? So what was their milk be like? Concentrated, maybe like cheese. Do you think without the milk it comes out like cream?

Like cottage cheese? Yeah. Yeah. Or like cheese whiz in a can. Whose job is it to milk a camel? Because I can't imagine. I've ridden a camel once and you have to, I think you have to get them to smell a jumper or maybe this particular camel.

I mean, I've only done it once. They have to smell a jumper? Well, because if they don't like you, they might sort of either throw you off or rip off your jumper. It's your jumper. It's not just a special jumper. Not just any jumper. Not like a sniffer dog.

When a criminal's on the run, they get to smell some of their clothes. And then the camel goes out and finds them. No, it's quite an animalistic thing though, isn't it? In order to trust you, I must smell you. Smell you, yeah. I've never ridden a camel. When you rode the camel, was it the one hump or two?

And if it was two, did you sit in the middle of the two humps? Yeah, good question. I thought it was a really good question, but I was eight and I don't really remember, but I think... You don't remember? You rode a camel? I can't say for sure how many humps there were. I can't believe this.

It's blowing my mind. I'm going to say two because it makes sense that you could kind of hold a hump in front and a hump behind. Yeah. You're secure between the humps. What is that? I mean, it's crazy, isn't it? There's like one hump and two hump camels. If I was a one hump camel and I just hung out with the other one humpers and then I met a two hump, I'd be like, what the hell is going on? Yeah. Look at different animal. It's crazy. Is it? We just take it for granted because we're, you know, we're little kids.

We find out about camels. Camels are one of the first things we learn about. Really? Yeah. One of the first things we learn about. Really? Yeah. One of the first things? Yeah. Well, I guess in terms of animals, yeah, because they're one of the weirdest ones. They are one of the weirdest ones. It doesn't make sense that they exist really.

I mean, alongside like rhinoceroses. Giraffes. What's the plural of hippopotamus? Hippopotami. Hippopotami. Yeah, giraffe. The anteaters with their long snouts. They're crazy.

They're crazy. Yeah. But again, that their long, crazy, crazy. Again, that's early doors. You learn about them. Yeah. They're the ones. Oh, you know what? I think I found out a bit later. I think you got lucky. How old were you when you found out about anteaters? Possibly the same age as I was when I rode a camel. Oh my God. While you're on the camel, that would have blown my mind.

You look to your left as an antita riding a camel. And you can't remember this? He's just getting over sitting between two humps and then someone shows you a picture of that. Longsnozd. Come on. I was going to say wanker. I'll put it out there. That's the only word that was in my head. Longsnozd wanker. They are longsnozd wankers. If any antitas are listening to this.

I mean, I don't like ants personally, so I feel like they're doing a great service. Yeah, I suppose so. Yeah, but they never eat the ants that are bothering us. They're out in the desert eating ants that are all in a big anthill. But the ants that are in my kitchen and I can't get rid of, where's an anteater then? They're not doing me any favors. Are you calling any anteaters in to...? Actually, I do. Yeah.

You long schnod wanker. You come out here and get rid of these anteaters. I think your strategy might need to be. Yeah, too aggressive. Turn up on a camel, take some ages. I hate these long schnod wankers. Popadoms or bread! Popadoms or bread, Mayor of Sonoran!

Popadoms or bread! So it was Popadoms until 2014. I would have said Popadoms if you had called me in before 2014. I would have said Popadoms. I would have said Popadoms. I would have said Popadoms. I would have said Popadoms. I would have said Popadoms.

I would have said Popadoms. I would have said Popadoms. I would have said Popadoms. I would have said Popadoms. I would have said Popadoms. I would have said Popadoms. I would have said Popadoms or bread? Popadoms or bread, Mary Sidner? Popadoms or bread? So it was popadoms until 2014. I would have said popadoms if you had called me in 2014. But 2014 is when Fisherman's Wharf happened and now I'm very wary of the popadom. Popadom what? I don't know about this. In 2014, Hugh was then my boyfriend, now my husband, and I went to Goa, Palm Fringe beaches, like water ball sunshine. He was turning 30 and his love language is fish curry.

And so- What a love language. Yeah. I haven't heard that one before. Very specific love language as well. That's great. Fish curry is dreamy. And so I wanted to find the best fish curry in the area and someone

recommended Fisherman's Wharf, this restaurant. And, you know, it's very difficult back then to get a table there, but I managed to get, you know, one of the last tables in there, managed to flag a table. And then it was an hour's journey to get there. And this journey was part land, part water. And I managed to find the one taxi driver who was willing to take us on this 50 minute journey, liaise with the man with the ferry to put his taxi on the back of the ferry in order to get to Fisherman's Wharf. And so when we were having a few drinks in the bar next door, we were elated, like we were just totally pumped to have done this like challenge Anika style journey to get there. And they

plied us with all the crispy crunchies, poppadoms, crispy, crunchy galore. And we ate them all. And we were having a great time doing that. But by the time we got to the restaurant and we were shown around the Fisherman's Wharf and like, let me paint a picture. This is like the Aladdin's cave of seafood. Like this stuff is so fresh. It's like practically jumped into the restaurant.

It's like super shiny, gle restaurant, it's like super shiny, gleaming like latex, diamonds, etc. And we looked at each other and couldn't really eat a thing. And so we ordered some fish and then spent the next two hours like pushing around some of the world's best seafood around our plates. And so we made a vow to each other that day, never again to do another fisherman's wharf. And so my answer is bread, not poppadoms, but with my main course. Interesting. So you're moving the bread course to be alongside the main course. Yes.

This is great because we've never had this before. We've never had the bread course become a cliffhanger for later on in the meal. I like that it's a cliffhanger. Yeah. And how do you want to do it? Do you want to do it that you tell us the bread course when we get to the main course or do you want to tell us the bread course, don't tell us the main course and see if we can guess the main course or the listeners can guess it. Well, you love a guessing game.

I love a guessing game and that's what I'm trying to steer you towards. My instinct would be we'd now just move on. What? And we talk about the bread when we get to the main course. You could just say what the bread is, but don't talk about it. And then we go into the starter and then the listeners can guess in their heads what the main course is going to be. Well, I do. First of all, it's very sensible what you're doing here because so many times

I've ruined myself on bread. Everyone's been there, haven't they? They've over nibbled. Yeah. But I would never get to the main course, even if I was really full and be like, I'm on bread. Everyone's been there, haven't they? They've over nibbled. But I would never get to the main course, even if I was really full and be like, I'm too full to eat this. I'd power it down. Yeah. But there is a particular arrangement of, can I just say it? It's naan, but from my local kebab shop. Okay.

Yeah. Do you want to shout it out or do you fear that people will become mobbed and then it will not be as good a local kebab shop anymore? Well, I can give it a shout out, but it's really not about the kebab shop. It's about the tandoor that they've got in the corner and the mustachioed uncle that makes the naan in there. I mean, I don't eat an awful lot from the kebab shop, so maybe I shouldn't give it a shout out. But the naan, goodness me. I mean, anything cooked in a tandoor makes me go weak at the knees. But the naan is like this heavenly plump, charred, semi-crispy on the bottom,

bubbly on top, plied with garlic butter if you wish, 50p a pop. 50p for the naan? 50p a pop. You're going to have to tell me what that is now, please. Where it is. What's the name? So it's called Al Hacks. Okay.

Yeah. He's there as soon as we finish this. And yes, they have the oven of joy in there. For the first four years after I moved in, I didn't go there. I mean, because, you know, it's got the elephant's leg rotating in the window. I'm not partial to the elephant's leg myself. And he went in after a particularly boozy night and discovered the tandoor in there and our minds were blown.

And now, like the ritual is that we've got like a nan jar full of coins. We'll invite people over for dinner, go and take them to go and see uncle. He'll like, you know, push out like at least 10 naans or something, take them back, little plastic carrier bag wrapped in foil. And it's just totally, I mean, there is nothing finer in my, that I can think of no better bread than freshly made naan bread, in my opinion. I love the naan jar. I love the naan jar.

It's good. Not enough people have a naan jar. It's the first time we've had a Nanjar. I sound like a posh person saying ninja. The first time we've had a Nanjar mentioned on the podcast, actually. Do you have a jar for anything? I don't think I do have a jar. The only jars you really hear about are jam jars, obviously. Yeah.

Swear jars. Swear jars are up there as well. But I don't think anyone actually has them. They're used as devices in films. Yeah. That's always like a kid who's making the pen and putting a quid in the swear jar and everything because that's funny. But like that's not, that's not in real life.

No, we've subverted that problem in our house because we're allowed to say ship. Okay. Yeah. That's good. We don't have to pay because we've learned how to say ship now. I used to do that at school when I was quite little. Someone told me that you could get away with swearing if you said ship, but you pulled your mouth apart

when you did it. Do you want to demonstrate that? Yeah, because it's not your fault. Yeah, and then it's not your fault because you're saying ship. I got in loads of trouble and I got sent to the headmistresses office. I was probably like six when this happened. And then my mum

had to come and pick me up and I went, I didn't, I didn't say it. I said ship and I built my mouth apart. Fair enough. Yeah. My mum was like, right, come on. I remember her being faintly amused by it is what I'd say. Yeah. It's funny. Your kids aren't swearing yet. They're still writing love you mummy in your book. In a few years time that's what they say. Yeah. F you mother. Not yet. Still too young.

So in context, how are you saying ship in front of the kids? Oh ship, the nanjar is empty. Precisely. Oh ship, I burnt the, whatever I'm cooking. Yeah. That's good that you're in the moment you can switch it to ship. True, yes. Because if, you know, most of the time when people are swearing, they're like, it just happens naturally because they're angry about something, right? I mean, I think, I think swearing might increase and the jars might decrease because like it's quite hard to use actual real money coins these days. I don't know if you find that too, but I'm just like beeping everything.

Yeah. You know, phone beep, card beep, actually not even card beep these days. It's mostly a phone beep. But the kebab shops cash. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think you can pay on card there, but it's, it's one of those, we quite like cash places. Yeah. Especially if you're just buying naan.

Yes. And they're 50p each. Yeah. You do feel a bit bad because they have to pay the bank charges. Two quid for four naans on your, on Apple pay. Doesn't feel great. Does it? Your dream starter. I'm just thinking about what you're going to have as your main now because of what the bread was. So this is the problem. This is why I said leave it till later. Get to yummy boys.

But your dream starter. So my dream starter is Pani Puri. And I love Pani Puri. It's like the Indian equivalent of a flaming sambuca, but without the alcohol or flames. But it's like the ultimate high risk all in one mouthful. And so it's really fun. Like it can get, it will guarantee you to get a party started with a bang. I think occasionally someone might have to drop out. Let me explain what it is. We don't know. So it's a crispy, crunchy, hollow semolina shell that you pop a hole into the top of it. And then you put inside, there are like plump black chickpeas, sprouted mung beans mixed together with chat masala, maybe potato, I don't want the potato, maybe potato. Little squirt of date and tamarind chutney for all of your sweet and sour desires.

And you serve them like six up on a plate with a little jug of paniani. And now Pani means water in Hindi, but it's like a mint and coriander, lime, bit more date. Like it's quite a complicated water, but basically it's like being slapped in the face with some herbs, like accompanied by a lemon. Like it's gorgeous. And so this thing is like a crispy, crunchy, sweet, sour, salty, like textural sensation that could go wrong because if there's a hole in the bottom of your purrie, then you know, it could be game over at the starter. Yeah. Yeah. But I love it.

It's like, it's a street food that comes under the genre of chart in Indian food and chart means, I mean, it means to lick, but it translates to so good you want to lick it. Wow. I don't know how to translate it to that. So good you want to lick it. Wow, I didn't know it translated to that. So good you want to lick it. Wow. I'm going to drop that little bit of trivia next time someone orders some chart. Please use it in an appropriate context James.

We all know what you're thinking. I can't wait to use that. You're thinking. And it sort of typifies that sort of sweet, sour, salty, you know, that's really addictive food. You're like, why is it so addictive? And then you realize it kind of hits all of those notes. It's quite hard to find it in the UK. London is the land of everything. You can go to Wembley.

But my favorite, I like making it at home because it's quite fun. But the last time I had a really good one was at Elko Pani Puri Centre, which is in Bandra, Mumbai. And all of these people queuing and you're just off a main road and you're like, what on earth are people queuing for? And it is just Pani Puri. And there's a man with like one of those backpacks you see at festivals, like the beer, you know, the beer guys, and they kind of come around and like fill up your pint glasses. So he's kind of got one of those backpacks you see at festivals, like the big, you know, the beer guys, and like fill up your pint glasses. So he's kind of got one of those hoses attached to a rucksack, but in there he's just got like this herby water and he's just squirting it in, dishing them out.

That's so cool. Wow. How's he getting the aim on that with one of those? Yeah. How big is the hose? Oh, is he doing it in jumps? He's not doing it directly into the... No, he's doing it directly. That's whizzing off her hands. It's all about the size of the nozzle. So he's got a small nozzle. Let's address it. It's what you do with it.

So it's like pretty small and not... It must not like jet out very fast either because that's going to... If it's like pretty small and not, it must not like jet out very fast either. Cause that's going to, if you, if it's small, but that's coming out fast. You're blasting a hole right in the middle. The pan is still, but like imagine, so the only way I can describe to you, cause I can see how keen you are to establish this. It's like a box of wine, you know, the nozzle on a box of wine.

Okay. I mean, it doesn't like rush out of there, you know, the nozzle on a box of wine. Okay. I mean, it doesn't like rush out of there, does it? You're not like suddenly drinking a pint of wine when you give it a little squeeze. You're talking about gambling. If you tip it towards your mouth, it does. A semi-slow trickle. Okay. But it's like, it's not, it's not too slow.

It's not blast. He's not blasting it out of there. Yeah. It's not like a, you know, like a jet wash. No, exactly. Yeah. I thought it was. Yeah, I thought it was a jet wash too. It was a too slow. It's not blast. He's not blasting it out of there. Yeah. It's not like a, you know, like a jet wash. No, exactly. Yeah. I thought it was a jet wash too. It was a jet wash.

Do you want it flaming? I mean that... Flaming samburger style? I mean, why not? That could be quite fun. I mean, I don't want to lose my eyebrows, but... Have you ever thought like, could I do that? Could I figure out a way of doing a flaming one?

And would that taste, you know, it would affect the flavor, sure. And would we be waiting for the flames to die down or would I then need to learn how to do an all in one with the flames? I wouldn't, you know, people blow it out and then down the shop. But yeah, don't, don't fire, don't eat the fire. No, I suppose I haven't really thought about it. With a panipuri, if you're leaving the fire for too long, it's going to burn, it'll make it sort of a bit acrid, isn't it? So I think it's just a quick light, whoosh, blow it out.

Yeah. Or you set it on fire when you've got a little bit in there, and then the man comes around with a gun, puts more in there and that puts the fire out. Actually, you know what that could be? He puts the fire out, yeah. It could be really good because after a shot, you probably need to line your stomach, right? And so once you've drunk the shot and then you

follow with something crispy crunchy, I mean, that sounds like a really good strategy not to get totally ship faced. I saw a really... I did say ship. Did you say ship face? Yes, yes, yes. Very good. The face of a ship? They have faces, don't they? Ships? What do you mean? Boat face.

Yeah, boat face. That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah. As always. I saw a really bad fire-breather once. Absolutely awful fire-eater. As in they were bad at fire-breathing. Yeah, it was atrocious.

So, burnt the esophagus or something. Yeah. It was like they'd done like a whole magic show. They're meant to be a magician. A whole thing was awful. Every single magic trick sucked. And then at the end they were like, this is the finale. I'm going to, I came up doing circus skills and I'm going to like eat this fire.

And they talked for 10, 15 minutes about how they fell in love with fire breathing and fire eating and how amazing it is and how difficult it is and telling you about it so that you appreciate what you're about to see. And then they got these flaming sticks out and then they just really slowly, for one, they filled their mouth with this lighter fluid that was dribbling out the side of their god damn mouth as they were trying to do this. So it was like unsightly. And then every time they tried to like eat the fire, it was just really slow and anticlimactic

and they kept burning the side of their mouth and going, god damn it. And they're doing it again. Just kept saying, god damn it all the time. Every time they burnt the side of their mouth. And that was the end of the show. I had a not dissimilar situation where I was in... I'm very interested to hear how not dissimilar this is. Well, is it like it was someone who was looking after poisonous venomous snakes and this was

in Thailand and was telling us about how venomous they were and showed us by getting this snake. He had sort of wrapped a glass, he put some cling film over a glass and then I didn't know what he'd done to sort of anger the snake, but the snake then bit the glass because it was angry and he saw this venom shoot out of its mouth. And then at some point during the show, he was bitten, it had to be taken off and there was an ambulance just outside. And so the show just suddenly ended. So was the ambulance outside before the show started? This happens every week. Yeah, surely they're just there. I mean, it was quite, I wouldn't recommend anybody go to a place

like this because if you kind of, I remember looking at his arms thinking it looks like he's been bitten before. Either that or he was a heroin addict, but you know, either way it's not going to be a good show. He could have a crippled addiction and he's trying to weed himself off of it by finding a different passion. And he's looking after snakes and now they're biting him all the time. It's true. He could have been manning the tandoor because, you know, getting back to tandoors, I did have to work a tandoor at some point in my career and they burn up the arms.

Oh, I bet. It's cinch the eyebrows off, all the hair disappears. Apart from the mustache. It's a dangerous job. Yeah, apart from the mustache. That's the guy who works in the thing, not you. Right. Thank you. The uncle. The uncle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As soon as I said it, I was like, no, that's not him.

Better clear that up. I knew what you meant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He said all the hair disappears. I was like, we know one guy who's doing all right on the hair front. He works at Tandor. He's got longer arms than I have. Oh, has he? That's another thing. I feel like I've got quite short arms. I feel like I'm... Yeah, well, I didn't think it before, but yeah, now you've stuck your arm out. Do you do think T-Rex arms are...

That's crazy. Yeah. Feels proportional to me. No, that's short. That's short. It was, yeah, it was a dangerous job for me to do. You've got to really get in there, right? You've got to, yeah, it's one swift move. Yeah. You've got to really get in there, right? Yeah, it's one swift move.

Yeah. You've got to plaster it with this kind of gigantic powder puff to the side of the tandoor quite swiftly and quickly and get out of there. Yeah, because it's like 400 degrees in there. Wow. Yeah. What? I love that.

I love seeing videos of that of people just like sticking, sticking the nans at the side of the tandoor. Oh yeah, confidently. Yeah. Really jealous you saw that guy get bit by a snake. Were you really afterwards, if you're honest, were you like that was brilliant when he got bit? No I do have to say I didn't think that. Good story now though isn't it? Yeah it is a good story now. I would have been really laughing about it afterwards. I do have another snake story coming up though. Coming up? Well, I mean, in the main course. My main course actually features a snake.

I mean, not eating a snake. I can see why you didn't want to save the bread now because you already had a snake story lined up. Wow. Wouldn't it be amazing if the Panny Puri man, when he's putting the liquid in, he also has a snake in his backpack and the snake bites the hole in the top. That would be genius. That would be a show wouldn't it? That would be good actually.

Yeah, yeah, if it just bounces out and bites the little hole in it. Because that's the hardest for me when I've had Panny Poo actually putting the hole in it. Yeah. You know, the last time I can tell you when I had it, it was my birthday. Pow! Too hard because I was so amped up because it was my birthday. I wasn't drunk.

The starter. Pow! Immediately hard because I was so amped up because it was my birthday. I wasn't drunk. Starter. Pow! Immediately ruined it. Just too big of a hole. Yeah. I felt real sad. Sorry about that. But I think snakes could be good, but the venom thing might be an issue. But you could have like a hygienic squirrel standing on a, like a little... Yeah, a hygienic squirrel. A hygienic squirrel, yeah. Good luck finding one of those.

I tell you who, we could get one of those long schnoz to wankers to come in, whack their schnoz on it. Tell them there's an ant inside. Yeah, tell them there's an ant inside, they feel for it every time. Not an ant in this one, but an ant in that one. There better be! that one. Your dream main course has a snake in it. Have you been to Sri Lanka? No, no, sadly not. Really want to. I love Sri Lanka. Wherever you go in Sri Lanka, you'll be able to get a curry and rice, which is a misnomer because it's not just one portion of curry. It's like four

or five or six portions. It's a buffet, but the best buffet you've ever had and it's for one. The curries will change depending on where you travel in Sri Lanka. The best one that I ever had was on New Year's Day in 2016. So at this point, Hugh and I got married and we were there for our honeymoon and someone had recommended this place called Samarkandah. It's like a tea plantation that's in like a rainforest sanctuary, like quite close to Gawle. And when we got there, we hadn't realised that there was absolutely nothing to do. Like not even picking tea. There was no wifi. There wasn't anybody else staying there. There were no books to read. And so on New Year's Day, we go for a walk and come face to face with like a long brown, massive snake. And this is like, as I didn't realize until I came back,

that Sri Lanka actually has like over 200 species. I mean, it's like kind of one of those like, you know, where are the most densely populated places of snakes in the world? Turns out Sri Lanka is up there. You don't hear about that. You don't hear about it. No, no. I'd have been hoping it was like Benito and the milk and there wasn't actually that many. Yeah. You know, we got 200 and then about three. We got oaks snakes, soy snakes.

Yeah. Or cow snakes. Just someone ran their mouth off because they thought they were cocky. Put a show off to a chef. This was terrifying. It's definitely like one of the most terrifying days of my life. their mouth off because they're cocky, put a show off to a chef. This was terrifying. It's definitely like one of the most terrifying days of my life. And so we ran all the way back to the house. Sorry.

People running away from stuff all the way back somewhere really makes me laugh. And I don't know why. Yeah. It is really funny. People running all the way back somewhere. It would have been funnier if you were shouting help, you were shouting shouting, help us, help. That's, that's, that's good stuff. How long were you running for when you saw the snake? I mean, maybe, maybe like 10 minutes.

And when did you say you just got married? So we got married in June, 2015, but you know, we'd, we'd spent all of our money on the wedding. And so six months later we were there. Honeymoon, is Hugh out running you or is he matching your speed? Is he lagging behind? Very good question. Are you out running him and you don't care? Well, so he has quite, he's an ex hockey player and so he's athletic, but he's got quite big thighs and he tires easily. And I'm quite short in 5'2 and he calls me the

Gujarati Express because I can run quite quickly, but for short distances. So initially, initially, he has a head start, right? And then he tires. But I'm the kind of consistent runner. Yeah. I kind of go the distance. But you're not, it doesn't feel like you're running together at any point. No. Cause if I was him, I can outrun my girlfriend, actually I've got longer legs than her, so I could, yeah.

She just keeps up with me when we're walking through town. I would be, like if I was running full pelt, I'm leaving her in the dust. Yeah. That's not good stuff. So I would, if a snake is chasing us and we're running all the way back. What's the dust. Yeah, okay. That's not good stuff. So I would if a snake is chasing us We're running all the way back. What's the snake chasing? Did you check at any point you're running for ten minutes? Yes. Did you check to see if it was still behind you?

Yes, then why did you carry on running for ten minutes? You were like we just need adrenaline did you run get your passport, go straight to the airport? I'm staying in this country. Yes, exactly that. No. So maybe we ran for five minutes. I just feel like he should have been like matching your pace. And running with you. That's what I'm saying.

That's true. He should have... I mean, yeah, it's grounds for divorce now that I think about it. Yeah, it is definitely. Instead of just calling you like names and stuff that I don't think he should be calling you. No, and it is totally fine to bring things up from like over a decade ago and like whack the other person over the head with it, right? Yeah. You get up and you get home. That one time where...

Look, I have a little word for you, you little ship. Yeah, you ship. Yeah, you ship bag. You ship head. You ship head. So you're running all the way home. Running all the way home. And then one of the scariest days, so totally freaked out. And then these two women turn up with a man who is like, turns out he's like the man that climbs up the coconut trees with his bare hands and feet. And the two women were cooks and they cook as the full kahuna, the full curry and rice. And so they light these fires using

cinnamon bark, the cinnamon is native to Sri Lanka. It smells gorgeous. They're clay pots. They're cooking like a baby jackfruit curry, beetroot curry, leeks curry, cashew nuts, like just all of this dreamy stuff, like using the coconuts that the man is like carefully throwing down to them. They're cracking them open. They're using the fresh coconut. They're using the coconut water. It's the most sensational meal I've ever had. It was so good. And I'd have the naan alongside. So this is my dream meal. And are you at this point as well, you're relieved that you haven't been killed by a snake?

Well, exactly. I think it did add to it. Because where were you? Sounds like you were outside, but you were eating. Yes. Are you not worried the snakes are going to come back? Well it was a cleared space. I think we'd be able to see if there were snakes. It wasn't

in the rain for us. It was light. That's almost quite a good sort of dining experience, like a pop-up dining experience where you scare someone with sort of the threat of death or wild animals and then you serve them their meal and they're automatically going to enjoy the meal more, I think. Yes. I do feel like I've remembered meals more when there's been like a moment of jeopardy. Because I was, I can't remember the name of the fort in India, Anker Fort? I can't remember the name of the fort. He and I didn't pay to sit on the elephants to go up to the fort. We walked up them, but we were walking alongside the elephants.

But the road on the way to the fort had two walls. And so there was like one time where I felt like I was going to be squashed by an elephant butt and then had a really good salad after that. And I remember that salad. There it is. I think this is the way forward. I think this is, you know, that's that third Michelin star. Yeah. Because you didn't even remember being on the camel because there was no jeopardy. No. But always pay for the elephant is what I've realized. Yeah.

I think that's good. A good rule for life in general. Amber fort, Amber fort. Amber fort. Yes. What if someone offered you freebie, free elephant would you, would you be like, no, I'll pay for this elephant because I don't trust it. A free elephant.

A free elephant. Well, I feel like that would be taking advantage of the elephant if it wasn't paid for its services. Sure. I'm not sure how much the money the elephant's seeing. Oh, I like to think that there's... Peanuts? Yeah. Yeah. A little, what else my elephants have? They mainly like eating peanuts.

A pineapple maybe? A pineapple? I don't know. I don't know. But I'd imagine that they like pineapples. Juicy, sweet. I thought you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. I thought that was the phrase. That's the phrase. Yeah, yeah. But elephants eat peanuts.

Yeah. They, they. But I think that's because they've not been given anything else as an option. Yeah. I'm still surprised that I was reading about pandas the other day. I've got kids, they're interested in pandas. And I think I eat like a panda, not as a 99% bamboo, but they are like 98% sort of vegetarian, being vegetarian.

And then like the other 2%, I think is made up with like small mammals and eggs and things like that. And I think that's quite a nice way to eat. I was quite, I think it is. And I, you know, I should, I should do that more, but you know, like a panda, I'd say, eat like a panda, but I'd say maybe 70% of my diet is small mammals and eggs. Yeah. It is like, I'm going to go to the shop, love, do you want any small mammals? It's crazy that they just, I mean, they predominantly do eat bamboo and they have to eat loads of it because they're quite chunky, aren't they? And I imagine there's like tons of calories

in bamboo. So I think they are like chewing the day and quite a lot of bamboo I read is like quite fibrous. And so they go, they have like up to TMI 50 bowel movements a day. 50? Yes. That's the loudest you've ever talked on the podcast. 50? I mean you'd think that they might adapt their diets a little bit more to, I don't know, they might not need so much fibre.

Well no wonder they're on the verge of extinction. If I had 50 dumps a day, I'd be doing well to make it through the night. What was your favourite, you said there's about three different curries. Yeah, there were multiple curries and, some of them were quite unusual. Like a cashew curry, there was like a garlic curry, which is, um, mind blowing because it's not what you didn't, he wouldn't, it's not actually as garlicky as you imagine it might be. But my favorite one was the young jackfruit.

Um, it's like, if you had jackfruit, like it was, it's not like the 10 stuff that like is more commonly available here, it's not like the tinned stuff that like is more commonly available here, but it was like super sweet and like quite meaty. But they pair it with something called garaka, which is Malabari tamarind, it's like a berry and it sort of gives a sourness to it. And it was really good, like phenomenally, phenomenally good. And they have this lovely pole sambal, which is like a fresh coconut relish, I guess you'd call it. Nice. And then some puttu and rice.

It was just... That sounds so good. It was really, really good. It was really, like really, really lovely. James got scared there when you said Garaka, because Garaka is the name of the villain in Ghostbusters... Frozen Empire. Frozen, Frozen Isle, Frozen Empire. James is in Ghostbusters, Frozen Empire.

We had to, we had to defeat Garaka. Ice demon who was trying to extinct humans. So I, I'm afraid your meal sounded lovely. And then you mentioned probably the biggest challenge I faced in my life, which defeating Garaka. And that was that to me. And then you tuned out. Luckily I was listening because it sounds amazing.

That's all I was thinking was if Garaka is involved in this meal, we've got to figure out how to get him back in the brass orb or how to contain him somehow. Because otherwise. And that's up to you. You're the brains. I'm the brains. I work in the lab. I've got to figure out how to contain Garaka. And if he has managed to get a human to say the chant, which will release him, then we're toast.

I mean, there's not much we can do. But could you use your magic lamp to get... I'm a scientist in Garaka's world. This is where it gets difficult. Actually, maybe if I was a genie, if we could do a crossover of off menu and Ghostbusters Frozen Empire, then I guess I am a genie still and then there's a chance I could beat him. I don't think we can do a crossover. I could get him in the brass lamp. But then I'd have to go in there with him in room with Garaka. He'd be my flatmate. I hate that. I hate garaka.

Yeah. But this garaka sounds really nice. It is very nice. I can't really separate the two. Yeah. Sorry about that PTSD moment. Your dream side dish. So I love Sri Lankan food. I suppose when I've eaten it for an extended period of time, I feel the need for something fresh and crunchy. And my love language is tomatoes.

So I'm not quite crunchy, but like I love just sliced tomatoes, a little bit of crunchy salt on there. If you're offering to make it a bit more fancy in my dream restaurant, like maybe, you know, that sort of Taka thing where you kind of heat some oil, like let's say coconut oil, mustard seeds, garlic, curry leaves, which have this lovely citrus and smoke flavor, a little bit of lime juice, pour it over. That's what I'd want to scoop up with my naan bread from my local kebab shop. Shout out as well, you're saying tomatoes.

The tomato curry recipe in East as well. Stunning. That sounds good. It's so good. I'm amazed that so many people have cooked that recipe because it is tomatoes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what intrigued me about it.

But it's just so flavorful. It's got that sweetness as well and the acidity and it's just so, it's so flavourful. Like, and it's got that sweetness as well and the acidity and it's just, it's proper delicious. I love that recipe. Thank you. I think it's like, there's an unlocking moment in there, which I quite like, because you don't often get it in cooking where like it transforms, but you can kind of see the point at which it transforms. And that is that like all the milk solids are like burnt off the or cooked off because you separate the curry into two pans. And then you're basically just driving off the milk solids until you're left with this like quite oily mass that just like wraps

itself around the tomatoes and all the spices. So I think it is like a really magical dish that is kind of bonkers because it is just a tomato curry, but I love it. But then you get rid of all the milk, but it's still got that creamy taste to it as well. Yeah, it's rich, isn't it? It's really good. I need to do that again. Thank you.

Sounds delicious. I should get this book and start learning these recipes. It's been recommended to you so many times, man. I don't cook. I've heard you talking about mash. Yeah, you cook. The king of mash. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The king of mash.

Dream drink. Okay. So my dream drink is one of those cocktails that has a suggestive name. Um, can we guess? I mean, sure. Guess away. I, the only one I can think of is, um, I mean, I've, I've definitely told this story on the podcast before. Once when I was little, I was in a restaurant with my mum and I was reading the

cocktail list going, have you had a, and just going through all of the different cocktails. And then she knew what was going to happen. She was like, you know, you can tell something's going to happen and you can't get there quick enough to stop it. It all goes into slow motion. I said really loudly, have you had a slow, comfortable screw against a wall? I thought it was going to be screaming orgasm. Yeah, I think that was later on in the menu. So she was like, just took the menu off me at that point. Yes, I've had all of those. Thank you.

I wish more than anything that I knew Ed Gamble as a little boy. But not like when I was a boy as well. Cause I don't, I want to know Ed now. Like me, my age. That's weird man. And Ed as that little kid. Huh? You wish I was a little boy now.

Yeah. I think that would be great. I think if Ed was like whatever age he was when he in that story, I think it would be really fun hanging out with him. Yeah. I think it would be. Still is now, him. Yeah, I think it would be. Still is now, but like that kid's funny, man. So what's your, what's your cocktail? Um, it's a super cringe-worthy order.

It's called Naked and Famous. Yeah, that's a shame. It's not something that you'd want to Google. No. Um, so instead I can tell you how to make it. Yes. So instead I can tell you how to make it. Yes. So that it's equal parts mezcal, lime juice, Aperol and yellow Charterus.

Now we're just some cocktails. I don't really like reading what's in cocktails because I'm not, I don't even know what that ingredient is. I think we're just getting there with Charterus. I've got no idea what that is. Yeah. I've never been sure. I mean, I don't think anybody knows.

I ordered a bottle the other week so I could make more cocktails at home. And I was limited to one bottle per week. And this little note of this website that I ordered off said, your order will be cancelled if you order more than two bottles. So it's been going since the 1600s. I'll tell you what I know. Right. Made by Carthusian monks. They don't

really like making it turns out. That's why there's not that much of it left and you can only order one. It's still the monks making it. It's still the monks making it. And so they were handed a manuscript in the 1600s that it was the elixir of life, like this potion that could cure all ills that had 130 different botanicals on it. And so I think they make it, but reluctantly and slowly. I love this. Grumpy monks. And because it's such a secret recipe, nobody knows what's in it. So I don't know what's

in it. Wow, okay. So is it botanical sort of flavor to it? Yeah. Well, so I've only ever had it in the cocktail. And so I've ordered this bottle, it hasn't arrived. But like I think what it gives like the cocktail is, you know, the color of Sunny D or Miami sunset. It doesn't taste like Sunny D. It's like quite complicated, elegant. I love that you're calling it Sunny D by the way. I know it is called Sunny D now, but I still call it Sunny Delight in my head because that

was what it was originally called when it came out. But now I know it's changed its name fully because it was then, the slang term was Sunny D for the cool kids. And then they just went full all in, calling it Sunny D. But I've not heard someone call it Sunny D out loud because like it doesn't really come up much in conversation. Right. It's Sunny D at the time maybe had worse press than Turkey Twizzlers. Is it still around?

I think it might still be, but it was like, that was one of the things where you're like, Right. Sunny D at the time maybe had worse press than Turkey Twizzlers. Is it still around? Yeah. I think it might still be, but it was like, that was one of the things where you're like, I can't believe we're giving our kids this. Yes, definitely. Yeah. I had to really beg to have some. Like it was, we weren't getting that very often in the house. No.

Whereas, please let me have some Sunny D. Yeah. I want to go orange. I mean, I didn't know what color I would have turned. Like what does brown and orange make together? Maybe as if I'd gone to like a tanning salon or something. Yeah, just might have worked lovely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's the mezcal, which I guess is smokey. Yes. Yes. A smoky sour, like quite sort of bright. I mean, I didn't know how you describe apparel, like, like slightly fruit forward, maybe.

Got some bitterness to it as well. Yes, a bit of bitterness. They're all very like big flavors. Yeah. Yeah. But it's so, like I haven't had my mind blown like that by a drink ever, I don't think, and was just in search of my favorite cocktail. I love a margarita, don't get me wrong, but this is, it's like a sort of elevated margarita. It's very good. That sounds so good. I mean, I don't know what the chartreuse tastes like. I know for

a fact that the monks are going to be livid that we're talking about it on the podcast. Hey, hey you fucking monks. If you're listening to this, bad luck. Everyone's going to order chartreuse now. You've got to keep on making it. You've got to keep on making it. See you in heaven. I think part of the reason why I loved it so much as well is that I think the Charterise not, can't don't, you know, I'm not sure about this, but I think it's 80% proof. Oh yeah. And so it's like one of those drinks where like one isn't enough and two is definitely too many.

It's good. I'm going to try and make that. I've got some mezcal at home. Shout out to Cole. Sent me that ages ago. I've never, never cracked into it. Lovely. Lime's easy. I'm gonna try make that I've got some Escal at home. Shout out to Cole sent me that ages ago I've never never cracked into it. Lovely limes easy. Yeah lime juice I think I've got some apparel as well. Actually, so this is exciting. So it's just the good luck. It's just the old monk juice Yeah, I get the monk juice. That's those the hard. Yeah, also

I'm thinking when you first ordered it so because you're saying the name is like awkward to order So the first can you remember the first time you went? I'm going to try it. I've got to say naked. Can I have a naked and famous to this bartender? Well, I actually didn't have to say it because they got my order wrong. I was meant to be having a non-alcoholic drink at this particular bar and they served me this. And that's maybe why my mind was playing because I was like, gosh, this is the best non-alcoholic drink I've ever had. You'd ordered a clothes that are anonymous. And so luckily I didn't have to say it that time around. Yeah. That's good. And now you can, do you make them at home?

Well, I'm still waiting for my, yeah, so I've had to sort of explain how to make it. But it's, yeah, I haven't had many of them, but it is like, it's, you know, it's a diamond in the rough. It's definitely my favourite drink. It sounds great. I'm definitely going to try and make that. It's the first shout out for Naked and Famous on the pod. So that'll become a staple now of Ed's life. Yeah. You can drink it every day.

Yeah, probably not every day, maybe. Well, you cook the tomato curry all the time. Yeah. You drink it every day. Yeah, probably not every day maybe. Well you cook the tomato curry all the time. Yeah. You trust Mira. I do trust Mira but I feel like a naked and famous every day is probably a bad idea. Like if you were to be in your dream restaurant every day, maybe you wouldn't. It's a bit like, you know, those people who, there is someone isn't there out there who eats Christmas dinner every day. Yeah. But you wouldn't actually want to do that because it would really spoil it. No, I think to be in the dream restaurant every day is a nightmare. Yes, it becomes a nightmare.

That's the film we're going to make of the podcast. It's someone, we get trapped in here and it becomes a nightmare restaurant. Not with Garaka. Oh my fucking God. Please stop saying Garaka. We're probably going to have to. We've got to get through this episode. He's absolutely terrified.

I've been. Garaka ever comes in. Yeah. I don't know what I'm going to do. We arrive at your dream desserts. My dream pudding is a lemon meringue pie or tart, lemon meringue tart, but specifically it's Elio's lemon meringue tart. So when I was younger, I lived in North Lincolnshire

and the most exciting night you could have was a night at Elio's, which is this Italian restaurant, a stone's throw away from the Humber Bridge, Barton upon Humber. And the most exciting thing in the most exciting restaurant was the lemon meringue tart. And like, this is a typical, you know, 1980s, 1990s Italian restaurant.

I mean, we've got like plastic crab nets all around the sides on the walls. Like the whole place just like smells like Estee Lauder and Brut. There's people like, you know, celebrating like big birthdays there, women with big hair, downing the limoncello shots. And I definitely wasn't going to do a fisherman's wharf before I got to pudding because that was the best thing that you could have. And so I'd share a tomato spaghetti with my sister and then just make sure to get through to it. Now, Elio unfortunately is retired. The restaurant's been sold and I live in London, which is the city of everything. But I haven't yet found something that replicates what he did, like super thin, beautiful pastry,

like zingy zangy, like lemony filling and like real whippy sort of meringue on the top. But the closest I've come to it is the River Cafe. They do an astounding lemon tart, which is beauty and grace. And it's like magnificent. It's sort of almost like you end up winking after you've had a bite of it because it's really zingy zangy. You know that kind of way. You have to be facing away from like the table so that they... That's the last time you want to start ordering a naked and famous. When you're feeling zingy zangy in the lab.

The River Cafe though, I mean, you know, it's a rare occurrence for me to go to the River Cafe because it's far away and so expensive. Yes. But I don't trust myself to get to pudding at the River Cafe and not have the chocolate nemesis. So I'm not really a chocolate. I know that I feel like the world's divided maybe between like a sort of zingy zangy, but sort of comforting thing to round out a meal.

And then that kind of, I'm going to say like mouth, you know, that kind of cheese, chocolate, like something quite dense. And I didn't know. You're Zingy Zangy. I'm Zingy Zangy. Is Hugh the other one? No, he's one of his, he's very irritating when it comes to pudding because he says or share. And then it's not like he orders one, but then I'm kind of left eating it by myself. And I think I really want to be able to share in this pudding with you.

You know, when you're like at the cinema with someone, but you know, they're not really enjoying the film. And that's kind of annoying because it's kind of like, it kind of creeps into my skin. I'm very aware of it for the whole film. It's a bit like that with pudding. I'm not like grateful that he's not sharing cause I get all the pudding to myself. I'm like, no, no, I want you to like crack the top of the. And you both want to be talking about how delicious it is.

Yeah. Yeah. Would you prefer a food share or or a not food sharer? Oh, I love a food sharer and I love sharing food. And it is like, I get exactly what you mean. Like it's nice, especially with your partner to be like sharing the dish. Pudding's nothing else. I guess the fear is, I have met someone who doesn't food share at all.

So my agent doesn't food share at all. And that's because she doesn't want to try. She takes 15% of all of your food though. Yeah. Yup, yup. Nice. But for the fear that what I've ordered is better than what she's ordered. Yeah, I do understand that instinct. Yeah. And then that you'll be ruined. So I do do that with Hugh, I feed Cher. And then if I really

like it, his life becomes quite difficult then, because I will expect him to hand over the rest of his meal and to swap. And that just is like, you know, just something that he'll have to do when we all have to make sacrifices in relationships, don't we? Sure. Yeah. It's like a zero sum game. Yeah. If he's going to run ahead and leave you for dust and the snake gets you, you should swap food with him. Yeah.

So is that the, oh no, you want the lemon meringue tart from Elio's? I mean, I suppose what I'd say is that like maybe the lem- maybe, I don't want to throw shade on like the River Cafe's lemon tart, because it is amazing, but maybe the lemon tart from the River Cafe, but could they put on, I mean, could you, Jeannie, put on like a bit of the whippy meringue over the top of that? Yeah, absolutely. It would be my pleasure. What's the ratio? I think we always ask this when people bring up the lemon meringue pie or tart. Cause you're saying lemon meringue

tart, not pie. So what's the difference? I know. I realised I sort of said, did I say pie and then switched to tart? You did. And I thought, oh, I have actually never really known. Is it deeper? I guess like a pie deeper? I'm just wondering if one of them is American and one's in the English way. I mean, I feel like pie is the Americanization, the American one and that ours is like a tart, but I'm not sure. I think I've got mixed up because of the River Cafe one, which is a tart and I haven't ordered Elio's lemurang pie tart in a long time, so I can't remember which one it was. But you'd imagine a pie to be a bit more deep dish. I'd go with like a very thin pastry and the River Cafe's pastry is astoundingly good.

Flaky in all the right places, just like melts. That's what you want, right? And then you want the lemon, I want the lemon filling to be not too rubbery, no you don't want it to be rubbery at all and just like on the wrong side of zingy zangy. So you kind of want it to kind of slap your eyes shut because you're eating it and you're like wow. It's a bit too much. Yeah, I kind of semi want to be woken up at the end of a meal and then I want to go for a brisk walk, especially like if you're at the river cafe because it's nice walks around there. Yeah, but quite a lot of the lemon filling, because that is just the best bit. How much measurements we talking here? An inch? Gosh, what is an inch? Is it like two and a half centimeters? I'm a metric mirror.

Yeah, maybe two and a half centimeters. Maybe one and a half of just pure filling, not including the pastry. And then like maybe about two centimeters at, oh, I didn't know it's kind of, there's a gradient, isn't there, to the meringue? Because it has to sort of slope. Yeah, there's peaks. There's a peak. And so top of the peak, what is that? Eight, eight centimeters? Like fading away. So you want to get to the, you want to, you want to eat the nose first, maybe.

I agree with the lemon being the best bit, you know. Look, a lot of people like it, but that lemon meringue tart at Gloria and the other restaurants that Big Mama have, when it's like that much meringue, it's like 30 centimeters of meringue. I mean, it's fun, but I might feel a bit sick after that, I think. I can't get through that. I'd happily eat a bowl of that sort of meringue and then have a lemon tart without meringue on the side and then sit there just going back and forth between the two. Oh yes.

That's my new way to drink coffee with the milk and the coffee separately. Oh, Benito put it straight in your coffee. I know he did. I was too embarrassed to say can I have... He'd already embarrassed himself with... Oh, Benito's got his head in his hands. He had loads and loads of milk and then he didn't. You could have brought over all the different milks on the side, Ben.

You could have put three different milks on the side, Ben. You could have put three different milks on the side, Ben, but you didn't. No, you see, that's the kind of quirk and whimsy you can get away with in your own house when you're, you know, when you, because I, you know, write from home, I work from home. Whereas if you go somewhere, you just look like a real oddball if you, if you ask for the milk separately, is if you don't trust the other person to get your like little splash right. And so you don't want to establish that first off being like, you know, I don't trust you to get the splash right. Yeah. You know, he did check though, like a gentleman, he bought

over your coffee and he said, is that enough milk? He did. You said yes. I did. Were you being polite? Cause you're on the podcast now. You can be honest about if he got it right or not. He did. So the thing about oat milk though is that it's not like normal milk, unless normal milk is normal milk, but I mean dairy in the like the colour, you know, there's like gradients. It's like sometimes depending on the brand of the oat milk, it will just still look like quite murky, but taste quite sort of like you want it to taste, you know, to sort of take the edge off the coffee. And so it's quite hard to tell, I think, with, with, with

oat milk, whether it is like the right amount or not. And so I think I did say it, you know, maybe, maybe to please Benito, but it turns out, I mean, I, you know, I've drunk a lot of it and it is, it's really good. You absolutely smashed the break. Yeah, he smashed it. Yeah, he did. Well, if you're trying to please Benito, I got bad news for you. He cannot be pleased. I'm going to read your menu back to you now. See how you feel about it. You would like sparkling water, no ice. Yes. And a cup of tea. We'll throw a cup of tea there for you, because that's mainly water. Problems of bread. You want the naan from your local kebab shop. Starter, panipuri. Main course, Sri Lankan curry and rice from samakandar. And then the naan from your local kebab shop, starter, panipuri, main course, Sri Lankan curry and

rice from Samarkand and then the naan is going to be with that. Side dish, sliced tomatoes with crunchies. Oh, I think we've talked about that enough actually. It's so good. Sliced tomatoes with crunchy salt and takka. We call it chonk in Gujarati but it's... Chonk. Chonk. I love that. Yeah, we'll stick with chonk. Yeah, we'll call it chonk. Gujarati but it's chonk. I love that. Yeah, we'll stick with chonk.

Yeah, we'll call it chonk. Little spicy oil over the top. That's very satisfying to say. Drink naked and famous. Dessert, the lemon meringue tart from River Cafe with the whipping meringue from Elio's on top. Delicious. I think that sounds great.

That's an incredible menu. I'd like to have all of that. Yeah. That's an incredible menu. I'd like to, I'd have all of that. Yeah. Which is rare. I can say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that sounds great. And like, I think.

Thanks James. Actually the tomatoes thing is that weirdly reading it back, I was like, I'd love some tomatoes now with some crunchy. Well, that's something you can definitely just go and do at home. I don't know. Is it in the cookbook? It isn't. But you basically give them the recipe.

Well, I don't know how to do it. I can write something down for you. Yes? Yeah. I appreciate that. But you have to do a little drawing to go in Mira's copy of her own book as a bookmark. Okay. J.

No problem. Of Garakka. You didn't have to write love mummy on the back of it. Well, I always write that. Can we be in the next cookbook like Hugh? Certainly can. Just one page, we're just suddenly there. Yeah, just having food in the background. You know, like, because Hugh's got like half

of his face and then he's got cut off at the end of the page. So we could like be like that. So people could be like, what's that, that's off menu guys. Like we are in the Beano. Like we are in the Beano, Like we are in the Beano, for example. In the Beano? Yes. We're in one panel of the issue of the Beano, in the Minnie the Minx cartoon, in a restaurant. Very cool.

Half our faces. Just in the background. Little Easter egg for people. And Minnie the Minx is the coolest one. Was that a mic drop moment for you? That's pretty awesome. I completely lost my mind when that happened. Yeah.

I would too. If you'd told me that as a little kid, I would have been like, well, I don't care what else happens to me in my life. Yeah. We could have a sort of a limb and we could have a guest the limb competition that could be one of those Easter eggs. You know, when you get books, especially with kids books, they're like, like in a lot of the Julia Donaldson kids books, there's the Gruffalo on each page and then you have to kind of find it in the other books. It's not the Gruffalo book.

Right. And so with my next cookbook, what we could have is like... Eliminate every page. Yeah. Well not... And it's the Gruffalo. On every page. But then people would have to guess who's who. And then we could, I don't know, they'd be like, he could unlock some recipes. That's good.

Or like a menu. If they guess it properly. If they guess, yeah. A secret recipe, a new recipe. Yeah. The chopped tomatoes. But I think people should go and buy dinner. I cannot wait to start cooking things from that. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Mira. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you, Mira. Sorry about that. ["The New York Times"] Just heard that soda bread doesn't have yeast in it, so I was right in the intro. This just in.

This just in does not have yeast. Thank you so much to Mira for coming on the podcast. That was absolutely fantastic. That menu was delicious. Yeah. I'd eat all of that. I think you're literally going to eat at least one thing off that menu tonight. Aren't you?

Ed? Yeah, I think so. I think so. At least one thing. Hunt it down, seek it out. I can't wait. Also didn't say soda bread. No, it didn't say soda bread.

It said naan. So that's good. Yeah, that's good I'm glad because the rest of menu is so nice and you know if we'd kick me her out early She wouldn't have had to put up with all your garaka bullshit. What? Doesn't that serious business? I was like, it's gonna be a lot of explaining to do in a second because I felt you go Oh, no, I did not listen to anything else that mirror was saying couldn't tell you couldn't tell you what was said after that I was you're thinking about Raka. So it's a lot to worry about that night and as you just explained that I did not bring

Gerakka up. Yes, you know you didn't bring her You know, you're the one who normally brings up garage report up correct And I hate him and I and so I I couldn't listen to the rest of the story of what was in the food. Because I just heard Garaka's name and it made me so furious about that time. When, I mean, luckily, we had a fire master with us. Who's the fire master again? Kamail. Kamail, yes. And he did really well.

And we all pulled together as a team. But it was really well and we all we all pulled together as a team, but it was really touch-and-go and When someone brings up garaka just so nonchalantly like that. How am I meant to just keep my head in the podcast? Yeah, fair enough fair enough do go and buy a copy of dinner Yeah by Mira soda it is looking like it's gonna be my new thing James I think it is and also we should say thank you to Mira who bought us it in some um some sauce. I mean this is something we didn't really talk about the podcast because I think we thought so Mira came here. Yes. And gave each of us all three of us a bottle of uh this sauce. Algerian. Algerian and said it's her favorite sauce. She doesn't really

know what's in it. It's great on everything. It's so delicious. I thought well this will feature in the menu I'm assuming it's gonna come up in the podcast and it didn't there's my fault. We're talking about garaka too much but like But we would like to shout it out because just feel like this is clearly Mary's favorite condiment. Yeah, we've all been gifted It looks like the sauce I wouldn't normally have in my house because I'd start just squirting it directly into my mouth. Yeah, well that's what's going to happen. Yeah. You're taking this home and you're going to be squirting it into your mouth.

Yeah. Yeah, very excited to see. Also she was like, I can't really describe to you what it's like. It just is great. It's a bit Sriracha mayo-y. It looks like it's got a sort of mayo-y consistency, but there's a picture of grilled meat on the label. So I guess it goes well with grilled meat.

Maybe I'll, you know, grill myself up a bit of lamb and hit it up with that Algerian. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Nice one. I think that's pretty cool. Yeah. Um, anything else? Benito says no. Oh, no, there is something else. This little worm has a nan jar and, and, and, oh yeah. And he didn't, didn't talk about it in the episode. He has this thing where he's like, oh, I don't talk in the episodes. As soon as we finish the recording, Benito says to Mira, I have a nanjar. And we're like, what the fuck? Yeah, I have a nanjar because it's a place that does nans for 50p near me.

Yeah, has a whole thing about it. This is what happens when producers refuse to talk. That could have been interesting for the listener. He said no, it's a naan jar and simultaneously the window cleaner jar. Yes, he did say it's also the window cleaner jar. And then Ed said, don't get those confused. And he did a mime of cleaning a window. With a naan.

And it was clearly with a naan. And he said, oh, these windows are looking a bit greasy. Yeah. And I was like, well, that could have been on the podcast. What a great riff. Thanks to you keeping all of your stuff to yourself. You know, secrets over there. It meant that we couldn't do it. Yeah. Benita, do you ever spend so much on nuns that you can't pay the window cleaner? He says it's impossible because of how cheap they are. I'm assuming he's referring to the nuns and not the window cleaner. Yeah. The

window cleaners not listening to this. Yeah. When I live with my mom, there was a window cleaner. I was terrified because you never sort of never knew when he was going to this. Yeah. When I lived with my mum, there was a window cleaner. I was terrified because you sort of never knew when he was going to come. So I was a never nude. You were the opposite of naked and famous. Yeah, I was. Yeah. Clothed and anonymous. I used to refer to myself as that when you were a kid.

Yeah. Thank you very much for listening to Off Menu. We will see you again next week. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye.