Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster - Ep 68: Gok Wan

Episode Date: August 5, 2020

The genie wants to know how to look good naked, so we’ve invited Gok Wan for a dinner party – and it really is a party.Gok Wan’s Easy Asian is on Mondays from 10th August, 8pm on Food Network and available on dplayFollow Gok Wan on Twitter: @therealgokwanRecorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive Productions.Artwork by Paul Gilbey (photography and design) and Amy Browne (illustrations).Follow Off Menu on Twitter and Instagram: @offmenuofficial.And go to our website www.offmenupodcast.co.uk for a list of restaurants recommended on the show.Watch Ed and James's YouTube series 'Just Puddings'. Watch here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, listeners of the Off Menu podcast. It is Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu podcast. I have a very exciting announcement. I have written my first ever book. I am absolutely over the moon to announce this. I'm very, very proud of it. Of course, what else could I write a book about? But food. My book is all about food. My life in food. How greedy I am. What a greedy little boy I was. What a greedy adult I am. I think it's very funny. I'm very proud of it. The book is called Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy. And it's coming out this October, but it is available to pre-order now, wherever you pre-order books from. And if you like my signature, I've done some signed copies,

which are exclusively available from Waterstones. But go and pre-order your copy of Glutton, the multi-course life of a very greedy boy now. Please? Hello, it's Ed Gamble here from the podcast that you're currently listening to. My name is James Acaster. You are also currently listening to the podcast where I am from is? Yes. And we have Merch. How exciting. Official Off Menu Merch. We have four different t-shirts designed by four different brilliant artists. They're all individual, wonderful pieces of art. We also have tote bags. We also have mugs. I love them, James. Do we have tea towels?

We do have tea towels. So you can be drinking a cup of tea out of an off-menu mug. You can spill a bit of that tea. You can mop it up with a tea towel. Then you can have a t-shirt on and then take it all off, put it in a bag, and then you can put it in a bag. Personally, I would use the tea towel to dry the mug up after I've washed it. I wouldn't really be cleaning up spillages with the tea towel. I mean, that's just in my household. I don't want to... People can use the tea towel for whatever they want. I mean, it's fine. Frame it. Frame it. Yeah. Wear it.

Actually, it's a t-shirt. Wear it. Kiss it. Kiss it. So all our merch is kissable and you can buy it on offmenupodcast.co.uk. Welcome to the Off Menu Podcast, the podcast that's been marinated for 24 hours in humour and good times. My name is Ed Gamble. Doc Wan's Easy Asian, coming to the Food Network. Okay. James has got excited because we need to do a plug for our guest that we've got on today, but he's forgotten to do all the rest of the information. Now, James, remember,

you need to say who you are. We need to say what the podcast is. We need to say who our guest is and then maybe what the sort of thing that they're going to be talking about. So should we try again? My name is Ed Gamble. My name is James Acaster. Welcome to the Off Menu Podcast, where we ask a different guest their favourite ever, starter, main course, dessert, side dish, and drink. And this week's guest is the Magnificent... Doc Wan. Doc Wan.

Doc Wan, of course. Wonderful broadcaster, chef, fashion expert, all of these things he's been on our screens for many, many years. And he actually has a brand new food show on the Food Network. And it's called James... Hmm? ...James. Yes. What's it called? Doc Wan's Easy Asian.

Easy Asian. Very exciting. He's got that coming up, but he has agreed to be a guest in the Dream Restaurants. And this episode is one of our lockdown... Lockdown! ...Recorded over the net. Unfortunately, however much we like Doc Wan, if he says a secret ingredient, he will be removed from the restaurant, James. And what is the secret ingredient this week? It is sweet bread.

Sweet bread. We don't know what they are, really. I think they're like, all, allgony bits, maybe. Benito suggested it. Benito suggested it, yes. So, we just went with Benito's suggestion. He said it was full of guts and stuff, is what he said. It's like awful, isn't it? Is it awful? Is it like an organ or something? Well, I've had them before and I like them, but that doesn't say much because I would eat an entire animal

bones and all. Yes. You do like that kind of stuff. Ed orders brains and things like that from restaurants. But I think, for me, the sweet bread might be a little bit too much. So, on the green light, the sweet bread has the secret ingredient this week. Okay. So, if he says sweet bread, he's out on his ear. Hopefully he won't because we're very excited to have him here. This is the off-menu menu of Doc Wan. Welcome Doc Wan to the dream restaurant. Very exciting.

Welcome Doc Wan. We've been expecting you for some time. Thank you. I'm a bit gutted actually because most restaurants that I go to, you at least get a bowl of nuts or a welcome drink. I mean, nothing. No one's taken my coat. There was no major D at the door. This place is smelling a bit musty. Well, because it's the dream restaurant, Doc. So, it is a sort of, it's a recreation of something that's coming from in your brain. So, if it smells musty, it's very much you who's created the smell, unfortunately.

You know what? I mean, there's a lot of psychology going on there. I mean, I've already created this bad place for me to go and eat. Bad place. Well, thank you for having us in my dream restaurant. We don't take people's coats here. You may have noticed I put an extra coat on you. So, now you have two coats on. Just layering me out. Nice and toasty for the dream meal. Nice and toasty.

What kind of food do you like just before? Like, if there's a little bit of complimentary stuff on the table, what are you crossing your fingers for? Well, I always got taught by Dad because my Dad owned restaurants. I don't know if you're aware of this. So, I kind of grew up in catering. And so, we always knew that the saltier the good when you walk in, the more alcohol people drink. Yes. So, just, you know, give them a lot of salty snacks. And so, you know, I'm no stranger to a salted peanut. I'm no stranger to a chili cashew. So, I'm thinking something like

that. Something that's going to start the conversation in my mouth. You know, I don't want, I don't want a flaccid, a placid conversation. I want something that's going to start, you know, this is start your evening. So, with a bit of spice. I do love a poppadon. It has to be said. Yes. I do love a poppadon. I don't like, I don't like the lime pickle. I'm going to be very honest. I'm a bit of a writer. I like the writer. I like the raw onion. So, yes, there's something like that. Something very snackable.

So you want something to start the conversation in your mouth, but what is it about the lime pickle chat that you don't want in there? Oh, I mean, that's an argument before you even started. Before you even met the guests that night. You've already had an argument in your mouth. Way too much going on. You know, I still want to be the person leading the conversation. And so, you know, the writer, even the onion, even she is, you know, she knows when she needs to speak. And so because of that, whereas the lime pickle is basically me, I am the lime pickle. I see.

And I don't want to be having an argument with myself. So if you think of all the little condiments in the sort of poppadon tray as guests in themselves, the lime pickle is too similar to you for you to want to have dinner with. Absolutely. I wouldn't want to have dinner with me. You know, loud, eat too much, bossy, controlling, you know, all of that kind of thing. I mean, my friends do come for dinner with me. You know, they're forced to come. I pay them to come for dinner with me. But yeah, no, I, yeah, it's a funny one, isn't it? Because, you know, food is such a massive representation of our personalities. And I do like big flavours. And I do like big

moments in cooking as well. But actually, my preference to food would always be far more subtle, would be far blander. You know, if I'm cooking for myself, etc. Very interesting. I've just, I had never considered that before. Ah, what kind of restaurant did your dad own? So it was very much the 80s. So there were family one run restaurants, you know, it was the, you know, the slightly rounded wine glasses with the napkin that had been pointed and folded up and put inside. You know, they were very, very small and family run in Leicester. But they were, you know, the nicest, most hospitable, the most caring, the funnest places

you could go to. Dad is an incredible host. You know, he loves cooking. He loves food. But he's actually an incredible host as well. So he always created a beautiful environment where everybody was welcome. And he'd be smiling and laughing. And, you know, he knew all the customers by their first names. And in fact, he taught me a very incredible skill I've used in every part of my life as a stylist and as a TV presenter, which is that he remembered ailments of people. So we'd be standing at the front of the front reception to the restaurant. It was a converted Victorian house. It was that small. And the whole ground floor was the restaurant.

The first front room was turned into a bar. The then two large rooms, you imagine the Victorian terrace, two large rooms were then knocked into the main dining area with probably maximum of 10 or 11 tables in and then a kitchen out the back with a store and everything else. And so it was very intimate. And so we would stand at the front of the Victorian entrance and there was a pathway that walked into the house. And as we'd be standing there, both of us hands behind our backs. And I still walk like that now. If I'm going out shopping, I still walk with my hands behind my back. A little bit like a wise ninja as I'm going around the shops. And as a customer would walk up, he'd say to me, John, just got divorced,

bad back. And as soon as he walked in, he would go, Hey, John, how are you coping all right? How's the back? It was just the most incredible business technique that he did. You know, because if you think about it, you're going out for supper and somebody sometimes says, do you need an extra cushion for your back? You're like, you're there all night drinking, getting hammered the whole night. And so, yeah, so there were incredible spaces these restaurants were. And I have such fond memories, not only of the food, but the customers and staff. And, you know, they were, they were our safe place growing up. Ed, as our matriarch at this restaurant, do you have a similar technique for a member

of this restaurant? What's my name, Ed? But all I can do is whisper to James, this is Goch. He doesn't like lime pickle. That's all, that's all I've got in my pocket. Yeah. I don't know any of your ailments, unfortunately. Bad back, gout, always, always a good one. Everyone's got some form of gout. So if he's going to have it a guest, this is it out. Sophie, gout, you know. Also, because each episode, the dream restaurant is whatever the guest wants it to be, whatever their dream is. And earlier, you mentioned a conversation happening in your map. Would

you like the dream restaurant to take place inside your mouth? And our conversation that we're having right now is we're literally sitting on your tongue and having a big chat inside your own mouth. I don't know where this conversation is going to, but I like it. That's the oddest truth. Yes. I'm just going to say yes to all of that. You kind of went onto a, you were into a little space of imagining there, didn't you? Yes. I mean, you were there, you were invested.

That's going to happen. Yeah. But you know what? Just because I don't want to set the delight out of your eyes, I'm going to say yes to all of that. Yes, we're going to make that happen. It's more of a fever dream restaurant now. Well, I imagine sitting on Gok's tongue. Yeah, but we can do that. How's Gok going to sit in his own mouth?

Yeah. Hard. That's tricky, isn't it? But I'm still, I mean, you know, I've only known you for a few minutes, Gok, but already I've got in my head that you're a scraper. You're a tongue scraper. I can tell. What do you think? Sitting on this tongue, it looks so clean. Do you know I am actually a tongue scraper? A tongue scraper. A tongue scraper. Yeah, it's true. It's very good.

It'll be the cleanest restaurant you ever sit in. Yes, it will be. It's spot. Although, if we are in Gok's mouth, Ed, then while Gok is eating, are we going to be covered in the food? Well, we have to, you should have thought this through really, Ed. But here's my other problem with it. We have to make the food in Gok's mouth and then feed it to Gok, or do we give it to Gok and then little Gok puts the food in his mouth? Oh, there's a little Gok now, then.

Well, you're in your own mouth. You're both. I'm just struggling with that. The thing is, you're just now creating characters in my restaurant, and that's kind of not allowed. Yeah, it doesn't seem fair, does it? No, it doesn't seem fair. OK, I get rid of little Gok. I think we should just take dinner out of my mouth and regretting ever saying that I want

a conversation with the lime pickle or not. But, though, just for the sake of arguments, if we were sitting in your mouth having this conversation and you're eating, if we're making the food there, me and Ed have made the food in your mouth and we serve it to you, are you going to put it in your little Gok mouth or are you going to just chuck it down the throat? So not even put it in your... Are you just going to throw the plate down your own throat because you're in there anyway, or are you going to eat it in your mouth there?

So before I answer that question, I'm going to ask you a question. Have you had much human contact in the last four months? No, I mean, just to be fair... Just a question. Yeah. In the last few years, I haven't got... James has been in lockdown for about a decade. Yeah.

No. For everyone's good. Do you know what? In my mind, I mean, we are creating this slightly psychedelic hallucinogenic dream, aren't we? I mean, it's kind of there. I'm kind of imagining, actually, the blue meanies and the Beatles. I'm seeing the Yellow Submarine right now. This is this kind of weird space.

That meets Tim Burton modern day. And so I'm thinking probably Little Gok would be a... I can't believe I'm saying that. Would probably be able to taste the food, is what I'm saying. So Gok, also, we'd like to mention that you've got a brand new series on the Food Network called Gok One Easy Asian. Absolutely, which is very exciting. It's the, I think, my third on my fourth cooking show that I've made, and it's pretty

much what it says on the tin. It is me teaching you in my kitchen how to make delicious, really, really simple Asian food, but kind of all Southeast Asian foods. We dip into Malaysia. We've got some Paranacan dishes in there. We've got some Chinese Cantonese Sichuan. And so lots and lots and lots of different flavors. And it's a really lovely series, and we actually made it in lockdown as well.

So it was all scheduled to happen. And then, of course, lockdown happened, which I thought then maybe it's not going to happen. Maybe we won't be able to do it. But the producers, a woman called Karen, who is incredible, managed to follow all the guidelines. And we spent a few weeks in my house during lockdown just cooking vast amounts of Asian food. It's a really, really lovely series, I have to say. I mean, it's pure cookery.

It's all cookery and absolutely packed for the stories. Now, I know you probably find it's hard to believe, but I do like to talk. I do like a chat. So there's lots and lots of very funny stories of growing up in the restaurant and stuff that my dad's done over the years and, you know, kind of where food comes from. It allowed me to show off a little bit and not necessarily show about stuff that I know, stuff that I feel. So I get to show off about my family, which was really important.

If you're cooking just at home for people and it's not part of a TV show, do you like them coming and chatting to you while you're cooking? Or do you need do you need peace and quiet? It depends on the type of dinner party. So I'm a bit of a I'm a bit of a dinner party addict. So when we're not in lockdown and we're not living in, I call it covid soup. So we're not swimming around in covid soup. Then I I throw probably two or three dinner parties a week for different

friends. I often have clients over as well and, you know, kind of entertaining and stuff. And so it depends on the party. If I'm doing it with friends that I've spent a lot of time chatting to already or we've been for drinks and I kind of know what's going on in their world, they can just come for dinner because I don't need to have all of those chats again. We're absolutely fine. If it's clients, I have a very sneaky trick that I do, which is I often set up food stations in the kitchen where they can start there.

They'll make their starter before we cook it or they'll add they'll contribute to the food because it kind of breaks the ice a little bit in that awkward moment when you've got people over and, you know, you know, you know, you're going to have a wonderful evening, but you've got to kickstart it somewhere. Often the preparation of food will help that. And because you're instructing them and you're showing them something, then I feel that that's that's quite good. So it depends on the party really.

And also depends on the amount of guests. So I normally on a Sunday, I'll have between 30 and 40 people over for lunch and it's a standing party. I know this is the honest truth. In fact, on Instagram, I posted quite a few pictures of some of the parties we've had and I often do a bring a dish party. So I'll cook six or seven dishes. Everyone else brings a dish.

I'll design a whole menu so people know whether they're dipping into savory starter or main course. They can kind of choose from that. They then let me know. I then issue the menu out. They then arrive with their dish and we set it up like a massive, almost Harry Potter style platter room. And you're, you're so incredible.

It is the check Instagram and you'll see, you'll see the one of the last ones that I did and they're very messy. They get very drunk and also I'm a DJ and I've got all my decks in the kitchen. So I literally, so it just turns into this kind of like slight glass and brie kind of food kind of a festival in the kitchen. They're lots of fun. Ed, yes, if you've got to do the party around your house and you've got to invite 40 people, who would they be?

Go. I can only think of about six people I'd want to invite to my house. Sure. For 40 people, you can't like all of them got. There must be like at least 10 of them. You're like, I wish they weren't coming. Oh, do you know, I, I, I adore all of them. I collect my friends like action figures, you know, I, I literally

live in a glass cabinet from the seventies, just in a room. No, I, I'm very, very, like I'm very blessed. I've got the most incredible set of friends and we're all friends together. And we all, you know, everyone knows each other independently as well. And so, yeah, they are quite legendary. These, these, these parties, I have to say. So they're very good friends as well. I, I, I have a lot of close friends who I like very much, but I look at if I

invited them around my house for a meal and then I started DJing, they would just make fun of me. I've got a lot of friends who are kind of bullies. I'm like, yeah, like this should Ed would just like make fun of me. If I just started DJing at my house, wouldn't you? Yeah, because that would be madness. I wouldn't make fun of you. Yeah. No, I'd take it from Gawk for sure. I'm absolutely, if you guys have got one's house and he's cooking and there's 40 dishes

and he starts spitting some, spitting some vinyl, I'd be like, I'm on board with that. If I went to James Acaster's flat and he started playing his weird music off his iPod, I'm not having that. That's true, actually. James, I would support you. I'm going to say it. I would say, you know, I'd probably even clear up as well. So, you know, I'd support you.

I'd be the perfect guest. You're welcome over any time for a can of course. Thank you very much. Still a spark in water, Gawk. Definitely, definitely still. I like spark. I've got a soda stream that I love, by the way. I'm a bit of a soda stream fan and my drink of choice is sparkling water vodka and lime cordial.

So that is my drink of choice. And so that comes in very handy there. But at dinner, definitely still water and always tap water. Oh, I've got working class roots and I kind of think to myself, do you know what, actually, that's good enough. I don't need big bottles of fancy water and all that kind of thing. I'm quite happy with tap water. I like the taste of tap water.

I don't mind it either. When people are like, oh, you live in a hard water area or it ruins the taste. It's like, no, that tastes good to me. I can take the question for you, Ed. Is there a directory to tell you where the hard water areas are? Or are they just assuming you live in a hard water area? I think you can you can you can log on to a website and you can put your post coded and it tells you if you live in a hard water area.

And that is true. I did it the other day. Have you not had very much human contact to you? Absolutely not. That was I'm really scraping the barrel for entertainment now. I was checking to see how hard my water is. Lovely doctor was saying earlier, your new TV show is your home cooking. You just said you would like some tap water.

What kind of taps you got in your kitchen? A bug standard mixer tap. It's a deep white basin double sink with a mixer tap in the centre. I'm picturing a handle for the mixer tap. Or is it like two different ones and you get it balanced? It's a handle. It's a mixer tap handle. One handle and you can like move it left and right up and down, up for hot, down for cold.

And then the pressure is when you when you pull it away from yourself. So say that we are making you a glass of water for your dream meal. Making me a glass of water. Yeah. And you don't cook very much, do you, James? I want to get it right. We're cooking you a lovely water. Yeah. And I'm using your mixer tap.

Yeah. Where exactly do you want me to be to get the perfect temperature of water for you? Whereabouts, if you're picturing the tap, what am I doing? You're all the way down. So you are pulling the lever downwards and then you're pulling it out. And that would be the perfect. Yeah, perfect. Quite a high pressure tap.

So be careful. Don't get wet. Oh, I tell you what, I've got a similar situation here in my flat and I'm still not very good at pouring myself a water without it going everywhere. I always do too much pressure and it just goes straight in and out again. And I'm so in it completely out again. Who do you live with, James? My girlfriend. And does she ever help you with your water?

No, I actually I keep it a secret from her. Do you? She doesn't know that I struggle with the water tap. Are you afraid that she may dump you if she finds out that you can't work the mixer tap? I've been dumped for less. How have you? Oh, yeah. James, just so you know, I would never dump you.

Thank you, Gok. Just so you know, just I'm just throwing it out there. I mean, already in this show, Gok's like the best friend I've ever had. He would even let me DJ. Yeah, who never dumped me. Ever. And I think she knows that you struggle with the water, James, because every time you nip out to get a glass of water, you come back and you're absolutely soaked

head to toe. I just make out I've been outside and it's raining. Don't look out the window. It's raining out there. Caps and dogs. Pop it up to a bread. Pop it up to a bread, Gok Wan. Pop it up to a bread. Even though you've already said pop it up.

Yeah, interesting. You're the first guest to ever pip us to the post with that question and get in beforehand for a pop a dog. Wow, that's good. Depends on what I'm eating, actually. So are we talking naan bread? Any type of bread. That's a difficult question.

That's like asking that's like asking a parent to choose their favourite child because they're both carver based food and I'm a carve based person. So I pop it on top. I'm not going to answer and you can't have that in my restaurant. I'm so sorry. I'm not going to answer. It's just too difficult to answer.

That's difficult. Yeah, first time that's ever happened. That's great. I mean, I'm completely happy to roll with that as well. Yeah, not answering. I'm not I refuse to choose which child I love the most. Yes, that's fair enough. So does that mean you're having both or you're having neither because you don't want to make the choice or both?

You have it right. OK, yeah, I'm having both, but I would never choose. I'd never say to pop it on. Oh, I actually am preferring the bread tonight. I would never say to bread, actually, pop it on literally killing it tonight. And so I'd never be like that. I would give them equal love and adoration with the pop it on.

Do you want us to put them on your decks and they spin around? You can take little bits off as they spin round. Yeah, one 100. And, you know, as soon as I get off of this podcast, I'm going to try that. Just so you know, if you see a picture from the arrive on Instagram at the moment of me, literally like something out of Scooby-Doo catching a pop it on from the air. You know, exactly what the setup is.

I know you don't want to choose between pop it on or bread, but if you're having both, is there a certain type of bread you would like? OK, so it's just getting awkward now. Yeah, it's just getting it's getting a bit inappropriate. And these questions are a bit inappropriate for me. I do like a mini role, I have to say, can't decide which one I want. When they offer you what you want, poppy seed, normal seed, plain or onion. All four, I have one of each, please.

I'm not going to decide here, maybe an onion bread. Maybe it maybe it has to be an onion bread. Yeah, I'm there now. And it has to be a roasted onion bread and it has to come with salted butter. And I also put a little pepper, a bit of pepper on the butter as well. It's very nice. You pop a season the butter properly. Yeah, yeah, you do.

A little bit of salt, rock salt and a tiny bit of black pepper on your onion bread with your butter. There you go. When you said mini role for a minute, I thought you were talking about a Cadbury's mini role and I thought you're trying to sneak in, sneak in a cake with the breads. I have been known to take my own food to restaurants just in case there's a delay. Have you? That is no word of a lie.

What would you take? A spring roll, what's your problem? Before any of us have even vocalised a problem. Yeah, people don't even know what's wrong with you. Small portion of chow mein, just a small one. How would you pack it? Would you conceal it in something so the restaurant know you had it? Absolutely with pride.

So my father, so my father, who is the funniest man I've ever met in my entire life and literally doesn't give two shits about anything. So they live close to a Cadbury restaurant where they live in Leicestershire. And my dad likes a Cadbury. He likes the choice of five different meats, you know, it kind of he does it for him. But he'll always take his very own carton of rice with him to have with his meal. And he very proudly places it on the table and my mum will go to the Cadbury and she'll get whatever she wants.

Then my father will go and he will leave the rice in front of him and then he will take the lid off of it and he'll place the rice on it and he'll mash it all together and he'll do that. And I'm a little bit like that if I take my own order of very proud of it. Have no problem with it at all. How warm is the chow mein for you, but are you putting it in the furthest? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

It depends if you've been for a drink before. It depends if I found it in the bottom of my bag and it's been there for a while. It doesn't matter. But the whole point here is I'm not going to wait for the food to arrive. So if I'm hungry, I need to eat. Does it matter what sort of restaurant you're in? If it's like a really high end restaurant, would you whip out your chow mein and just go for it?

That's a very personal question, but yeah. So we come to your starter, which I don't know, but I hope it comes on time because otherwise you're going to have a starter of your own. What would be your dream starter? Probably yuck sung, which is the minced chicken with the vermicelli with the water chestnuts and bamboo shoots. It's been fried with an obscene amount of garlic. And then it's with fried, crispy, white vermicelli on top.

I mean, it's wrapped in a crisp iceberg lettuce leaf and then dipped into some chili vinegar. Oh, yes. There you go. It's light as well as being filling. Absolutely. And also as well, I like sharing food. I'm not particularly good. And so if I go for dinner with friends, which I do a lot, then I will never order first because I need to see what everyone else is eating.

So to make sure that I know that I'm going to have a mouthful of that, a mouthful of that, a mouthful of that. So I'm not going to order. So if everyone's going to order the burger, I'm not going to order the burger because I'm going to have a whole burger by the time I've got everyone around everyone anyway. And so there's something about yuck sung, which is because it's served at the centre of the table and it's got lots of lettuce leaves that actually it's more like a main course than a starter. Because if you get in quickly and I can I can literally not chew and still appreciate the food.

And so therefore I can get through quite quite a few of them at the same time. That's very clever. Do you make it on your show? We didn't make the yuck sung, actually. It was one of the it was one of the recipes I had it. We had three recipes per episode, which isn't that many at all. And what did I do instead? I made a made incredible half moon rice balls, which is almost like a deconstructed sushi hand roll,

which was made with tuna with a wasabi and mustard mayonnaise in a tiny half moon and they were beautiful. So that was replaced. My local sushi place has started delivering again for the first time since lockdown. And I'm having a lovely time with the salmon skin rolls. Oh, I love a salmon skin roll. I really like a salmon skin roll. Yeah. And then also one of the cheapest things on the menu. Yeah, absolutely.

Essentially, it's scrap. Yeah, it is. Which is yeah, which is delicious. Now, I know what if they called it that on the menu, I'd still order it. She would. I love some scraps, please. Do you remember scraps in the chip shop? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, my God, weren't they the best parts? Great. All the leftover batter and the tiny little bits of really crispy potato. They were the best things. We used to have a portion of scraps to go alongside our meal. Yeah. Anyway, you just reminded me. Broken biscuits as well. Broken. Oh, I love a broken biscuit.

But everything tasted like the vanilla wafers because they were such a dominant flavour that even if it was a custard cream or sometimes a strawberry cream, depending on what factory you went to, then it would still taste like one of the wafers fingers. Do you remember bowls of pop from the milkman? No. No. I don't think we ever we ever had a milkman, you know. Oh, you didn't have a milkman. I'm speaking for myself.

Me and James didn't grow up together. Sadly. Sadly. I would have loved that. If I could go back in time, Ed, I'll make sure we did. Oh, how would you do that? I'd move to Wimbledon. And I'll make sure we grew up together. So that's a great starter and also sounds like it would be a good icebreaker

for one of your dinner parties. Exactly, because you'd have to make your own, you see, so you're kind of serving. Also, there's a really there's a really beautiful tradition that a lot of Asian families still do, which is the youngest of the family, regardless, you know, I'm now forty five, forty six this year, but I am the youngest of my nuclear family. So when I have dinner with all of them, it's my responsibility to serve the family. So I will serve the rice.

I will then, you know, if we're sat at the dinner table, then I will serve my mum loves shiitake mushrooms, so I will then find the shiitake mushrooms in the me and in the six or seven dishes. And I'll constantly be, you know, replenishing her bowl with shiitake mushrooms. I know that my brother loves crispy roast soy sauce duck. So I'll be looking for the the most tender piece to put into his bowl. And so there's something lovely about sharing. And so if I was to have the yaksang because I'm not necessarily the youngest

of my friends, I'm probably the person that's organised the evening and the bossiest and I would have ordered the meal. So I would then be making all of the yaksang wraps for all of my friends. So it's a nice moment of letting everyone feel very welcome for the meal they're about to have. What happens if the youngest member of the family is a tiny baby? Yeah, then they will have to wear gloves. It's probably the most the most the most able of the youngest of the family. You wouldn't just put a spoon in the baby's hand just just to see how it gets on.

That's a very, very good question. I'm going to call my dad after this and find out. And tell me what he thinks. This is Ali McBeal, baby, doing all the work for everybody. Oh, my God, Ali McBeal. What a great show that was. Oh, my one of the best moments of my house growing up. I thought that sounds sad, but then it probably was actually was when my mum and sister were watching those of Ali McBeal and my dad would always be like,

Oh, man, I always watch it. Ali McBeal, I want to sit in the living room as well. He got Ali McBeal on and then he just started just having a part with it. And then eventually he was like clearly getting into it silently. And then after one of them, you know, they had a bit of the beginning and then they have the opening titles by the time the opening titles came when he turned to my sister and went, this is the best episode of Ali McBeal ever. He was totally completely into it.

Every time I have a water chestnut, I'm surprised. Every time I'm surprised by the the texture of it. They're like magic. Crunchy. Are they chestnuts? I don't really understand what they are. Good question. They're kind of chestnuts.

I mean, they I think they are found in water. I don't know actually the answer to this. I mean, maybe I should Google and make myself look really intelligent. But I I think they are finding found in water. I think they they look like a chestnut. But of course, they taste nothing like a chestnut and they stay crunchy regardless of what you do to them. They're a they're a delicious ingredient.

I use a lot of them, actually. I'd like to see Mythbusters do an episode on that. There you go. Do they stay crunchy no matter what you do to them? They I think they when I kind of know since I've cooked them, which has been for 45 years, they've never ever gone soggy not once. And so so, yes, and they're they're a really good ingredient. They're delicious, actually.

I love I love I really, really like I like a lot of them. If you stir fry some king prawns just with some chili oil, lots of garlic and ginger and spring onion and throw a load of those in at the last minute and scorch them. It's a really beautiful just serve that with some bread. It's amazing. Oh, that sounds amazing. And doable.

I feel not not too intimidating. I think I could try that. James, you know, you're like this series because I literally have debunked all the myths of of Asian cookery. And I've made it really, really simple. I've made quite a few dishes using very Western ingredients, like I made a Canton beef dish with with tomato ketchup, which is a real which is incredible.

And the minute you mix tomato ketchup with oyster sauce, you get this fusion flavor, which is so dynamic and delicious and simple. And you get the saltiness and the sweet and sweetness from the tomato ketchup and then that with the charred beef and fresh plum tomatoes and lots of onions. It's delicious. I've got tomato ketchup in the fridge right now. You should try that dish.

You should try it. I will try. I'll tell you how to make it. James, do you want do you want the recipe now? Very quick. Yes, he's he's only got tomato ketchup, though. Have you got any protein in your fridge? Chicken. Chicken, that'll do.

OK, so you're going to boil your chicken, however it comes with its breast or sorry. Let me get my notes up up. Boiled chicken. Do you have any soy sauce? Yeah. OK, so you're going to put a bit of soy sauce in the water and it will color the chicken, but also add some salt to it as well.

And then after you've bored it, you're going to leave to go cool and then you're just going to shred it with your fingers. Just put it apart. Yeah. Then what you're going to do is you're going to fry off some garlic. Have you got ginger? Yes. Fry garlic. And if you've got ginger, you're going to put in two cloves of garlic.

You're going to put half a centimetre of ginger. Half a centimetre. Yeah, if you really posh, you'll grate the ginger. If you're not really posh, you'll cut up as small as you can go, James. But watch your fingers. Yeah. Yeah. Then if you've got any spring onions. Yeah, I have actually.

OK, so you're going to chop your spring onions up. You're going to chop up the green bits into three centimetre strips. And then the white part of the onion, you're going to chop into smaller bits. And that's because a spring onion tastes differently. So the green bit is less acidic and the white bit is very acidic. OK, got it. And then you can. So you're going to fry your spring onion, your ginger and your garlic.

And then you're going to put in your chicken in a tiny bit of oil, not very much at all. And then you're going to put a squeeze, a good squeeze of tomato ketchup. Have fun with that, James. Yeah, fine. You're going to put in. Yeah. And then you're going to put in about half of what you've done with the tomato ketchup with oyster sauce.

Yeah. Yeah. And then at the very end of it, you're going to serve it on fluffy rice just with a tiny, tiny dash of sesame oil. And that's your most basic Cantonese dish. That is great. And at no point do I have to use. Oh, no, you did say water. So I'm going to be absolutely.

Yeah, unfortunately, you're not going to be able to get the water into the pan to boil the chicken and that's the first hurdle. I will be drowned before the first. But I've written all that down. Thank you very much, God. That sounds delicious. Do some cooking. Have 40 people around.

All for one dish. Yeah, all for one dish. I know a new dish, everyone. All 40 of you come over. I don't know all of you. How many spoons do you have? Just the one. We're living in COVID times, James.

You can't share calories. The COVID times and I share it. We all share it in the flat. Me, my girlfriend, oh, Jason McKenzie. And we all share the spoon together. He's Jason McKenzie. He's he lives in the flat as well. He's my pen pal and he visited just before lockdown was announced.

So now he's living here. Had you met him before? No, I've never met him. He's been my pen pal since I was in primary school and it's the first time that I met him. And now he's had to stay here all the way through lockdown. Wow, have you got on? Not really.

He's got his views are a bit outdated. He's about 20 years older than me. And he's a little bit stuck in his ways. And I don't, it's been a bit. James, how did you how did you get assigned? This person is your pen pal. Was it through a pen pal society? Was it?

Well, it was in in primary school. And there was a class, another class of kids. So we were going to be pen pals with them. But the amount of kids didn't line up. Now, I was like a spare kid. So I just got the teacher and that's Jason McKenzie. And this is a teacher from another school. Yes.

All right. OK. So genuinely, you've not met him until lockdown. Didn't meet him before lockdown. He came just to visit me for the first time. Lockdown was announced. Now he's staying here. He moved in. Doesn't get on with me.

Doesn't get on with my girlfriend. He spends most of his time locked in the spare room working on his arts and crafts website. I'm sure I've dated him. Yeah, probably. Your main course, Gok. Yes. What are we having?

Oh, am I deciding? So first time anyone's ever thrown it back at us, which would make sense because it is a restaurant. Beef wallet. OK, so we're going to have a salt fish or a dried fish rendang curry, which is non-yafood. So it's piranican food. So it's a cross between Cantonese and Malaysian

and comes originally from the peninsula of Malaysia in a very small, beautiful seaside town called Malacca. And so we're going to have that dish, which is made with a rampa, which traditionally has over 100 ingredients in, which is basically a curry paste with everything from candle nuts, kaffir lime leaves, lemon grass, chili, garlic. I mean, it's incredible. So we're going to have that.

That's going to be in a big pot in the centre. And that's going to have salt fish. And I'll probably put some eggs in it as well. So quite like eggs and curry. I think it works. So we're going to have that. Then I'm going to do a whole sea bass and it's going to be steamed with ginger and spring onion

and a light soy. So very simple, very fragrant, just with some fresh lemon squeezed on afterwards. And but then I'll serve that. But what I'll do is I'll fill it the fish with my chopsticks. It's a bit of a party piece. So, you know, none of you are messing around just with a single pair of chopsticks.

I'm going to take that fish apart. Then I'm probably going to do chili and salt pork chops. Maybe for some pork chops. Chili and salt pork. I was thinking about that then. How many dishes are there? What depends on how many. Well, it was considering it's my dream, my mouth, my restaurant. I'm kind of thinking.

Yeah, fair enough, it is your mouth. Yeah, exactly. 12 of us. It's definitely my mouth. There's 12 of us at dinner. And so there's probably going to be about eight dishes. I'm on my third now, am I? Yeah, yeah. OK, so then I'm going to do tofu with mashed prawn

that's been stir-fried with black bean sauce because I love that dish. Then I'm going to do mapo tofu, which is another vegetarian dish with a really hot chili sauce over silky soft tofu. Then I'm going to do some morning glory with some preserved bean curd. And then I'm going to do bok choy

with shiitake mushrooms and hair vegetable in a oyster sauce. And I'm going to serve it with a really, really, really beautiful clear broth and plain fluffy rice with sesame seeds. So you are cooking all this as well? And apparently, because you can't even use the tap. This is if I'm doing all of this. That's fair enough.

I mean, the idea is that James is a genie. He can just magic these things up, but the genie can't use the tap. So you're cooking it, unfortunately. Fairly out of cooking. I don't mind. I quite enjoy it. I'm happy with that. I'm all good. Of all those dishes,

what would you say is the star of the table there? Probably the rendang. A rendang curry is a little bit like... I was going to say like your KFC secret recipe, but that kind of doesn't do the rendang curry any favours at all. But it's every single family and every single cook or chef

has got their own version of making the rendang. And, you know, I've made a cooking show out in Malaysia a few years ago, and I was lucky enough to go and work with one of Malaysia's top cooks. She's incredible. And we made her rumper, and we couldn't film the whole process

because there was no way that she wanted all of her ingredients put onto camera or for anybody else, but she gave me the liberty of making it with her. And so the rendang's there because there's so many wonderful stories that you can talk about a rendang. And it's unlike any other curry you'd ever tasted in your entire life.

And it's somewhere between a curry and a stew, and it's spicy, but it's also sweet, and it's incredible. And it's probably the dish I cook most for dinner parties because I like my dinner parties to go on quite a while, and then you get to three or four o'clock in the morning, and people are falling around, you know, with their drinks and whatever.

The rendang comes back out just with a massive loaf of bread, and people are into the rendang with these hunks of bread that they're ripping off. And it's just... It's the meal that keeps on giving. I mean, your dinner parties sound absolutely incredible. I put a lot of effort into them.

Better than any birthday I've ever had. But, boys, you're more than welcome to come over, if you want. I mean, they are... It's... They are... It's a bit of an open house. It has been known I've thrown a kitchen party, and halfway through the night I've said to somebody, who are you?

I have no idea at all who you are. And they've just walked in from the street. I'm Aamon Holmes! No, Aamon's always welcome. He's adorable. You leave him alone. I don't think I've ever been at a dinner party and still been there at four in the morning. I get sleepy at, like, 10.30,

so I don't know if I'd last the course at your dinner parties. I'd have to take some rendang home for the next morning. Yeah, you could do that. I've got a good friend of mine, Scott, who is one of the most intelligent and politically-wide people I've ever met in my entire life. But the minute that he smells a shandy, he just turns into this complete drunken mess.

Like, and he can guarantee he will just find the hottest place in the house. And when he's had enough, he will just be standing and then collapse and just sleep. And it's like... It's like the reverse of, like, when you finish your gymnastics, when you go over the halls and you stand proud, he does the opposite of the half.

Just crumbles. Yeah, exactly. He does the crumbles on the floor. And so you could always join Scott for a cuddle in the warmest part of the house. And then I'll bring some rendang over. Yeah, perfect. That's nice. Ed, absolutely loves leaving early. I do. He loves being the first one to go.

No! He absolutely relishes it. What is it about leaving early? You like it? I'm just... I make cameos. I make impact cameos on parties. I'm in. He heard yourself, Ed. I can't believe you heard yourself.

I'm just going to... What are you doing on Saturday? I'm just making an impact cameo. You may miss me, but it's only a cameo. I mean, I have loads to drink very quickly. And then by 11pm, I'm gone. Really? I still drink like I used to drink when I was a teenager, where you can't believe you've got booze,

so you just drink it really quickly. And I think I still do that, so I'm always burnt out by about 11. No, no, no. You wouldn't do here. We'd pace you. We'd look after you. We'd be very concerned about your longevity. And we'd want you to stay, so we would pace you. You'd be fine. I just don't think you've been to the right parties, Ed.

Yeah, I think that's what it is. I think it's down to the environment. Usually at parties, usually when the last people go to sleep, at the end of the party, it's just me and Nishkumar sitting up together talking about our friendship. Aw. Talking about the call in the first time we met each other.

We've been over it like a million times. So I was like, when I first met you, I wasn't so keen. I remember when I decided that you were my friend. Aw. I like to get those chats done at 7pm, so I know I can leave in a couple of hours' time. Like, quickly, let's chat about the friendship. It's lovely to see you. I'm not taking my coat off.

I think I'm the opposite, actually, Ed. I think that I rarely go to other people's homes. Like, rarely at all. I like people to come here because I'm far more in control of them that way. And if I do go over to someone's house and then I'm the kind of person that you're a bit like, Gawk, it's time to go now.

We're all tossed about like that. And so, yeah, it's the complete opposite. I just don't know when to stop. Aw. I'd love it if you visited Ed's house. You've got to visit Ed's doing those barbecues lately. Go over there for a barbeque. Come over for a barbeque, Gawk. Who'd you live with, Ed? We know about James.

I live with my fiance, and she's upstairs. Oh, that's it. Yes, that's all you need to know about her. You know, this isn't a job application, Ed. You know about that, do you? No pen pals for Ed, because he doesn't like talking about friendship too much. She's a fan of the results of the barbeque,

but doesn't like me talking about the barbeque all the time and thinking about having barbecues, because I think I only bought it like a month ago. We were having about three or four barbecues a week when I first bought it, and I talk about it all the time. And one time she caught me hugging the barbeque. Was it on? It was heating up, so it was warm.

Semi-warm. Semi-warm, lovely for a hug. Nice. And do you impose the same personal restrictions on yourself when you're doing your own barbeque? So will you then suddenly vanish halfway through the barbeque having made an impactful cameo? Yeah, I make my impact cameo. I eat very fast as well, so normally she's still eating.

Even though it's your food. Yeah, it's my food, wolf it down. And your drink. And then start to clean up while she's still eating. That's normally how I do things. You know what? You are a delight of a fiancé, you are. God, she lucked out, didn't she?

Yeah, she really did. In edge defence, when it comes to hugging the barbeque, and this is true, God, weirdly, his fiancé has started deliberately dressing like the barbeque. That's not true. And so, that's true. That is true. You sent me a photo.

No, I sent you a photo of the barbeque, and then you saw a picture where she was also dressed similarly to the barbeque, but I've not made her dress like the barbeque. OK, so just for the purposes of this part of the interview, stroke chat, stroke weirdest moment of my life, I'm now going to take off my chef's hat and put my styling hat on. Go for it. And I'm going to say, let's not ever say to anybody,

regardless of whether you are about to marry them, or whether you don't like them, or whether you love them dearly, you may not even know them. They look like a barbeque. We're just not going to do that. OK, that, boys, we're just never, ever going to do that. OK. No.

And we don't even need to discuss it, really. We're just never, ever going to do that. It's a very pretty barbeque, though, Gok. No, I don't care. I don't care. Just the word barbeque doesn't sum up the words, couture, beautiful, chic, elegant, stunning. None of those things go with barbeque. OK, fair enough.

OK, yeah, fair enough. Brilliant. I've put my chef's hat back on, so no longer a stylist. A side dish. Can we go dumplings? Who doesn't love a dumpling? Yeah, for sure. I'd probably do water dumplings, which is slightly different to a Japanese gyoza.

And they would have five folds in the top, which are very important. One of those folds represents something. It can be anything you want. It can be five of your pen pals, James, if you wanted to. Mine represent my five members of my family. So whenever I make a dumpling, it always has to have five folds on. Respectful of my family. Mine represent the time I'm going to go home.

One. One PM. It was one fold. It was closing it. And I'd probably serve inside. Water chestnuts, actually, go well in a dumpling because they hold their density. So I'd probably go water chestnuts, scallops, dill, and bamboo shoots. And I would serve it with a vinaigrette.

I've been eating a lot of dumplings recently. We live quite near to a Chinese supermarket. We've just been filling the freezer up with dumplings and having dumplings. They're quite good, I have to say. The frozen ones are quite good. There's nothing wrong with them at all. Have you ever tried to make your own dumplings? No, I made...

I made bao once. Bao's good. Bao's tough to make. Yeah, it was quite difficult. It was quite difficult. It came out all right, though. I mean, probably, you know, not to any exacting standard, but it was a thing and it looked sort of like the thing I wanted it to look like.

It was a thing and it looked like a thing. It looked like a thing, but it didn't matter because I ate... You should be a food writer. It didn't matter anyway because I ate it within two minutes, so it didn't need to look nice. Just about consumption. Push it down and go to bed. I was a bit unsettled when I found out about Ed cooking stuff I didn't know he'd cooked.

Oh, sorry, James. Normally, you send me photos when you've cooked something. Yeah. And I didn't know about the bao. Did you two meet in a restaurant? Actually, we probably did because we met on the comedy circuit and we were probably doing a gig at a restaurant. Yeah.

Yeah, the Hawaiian restaurant. Yeah, well, it was a Hawaiian bar, wasn't it? But it was... It was a gig called Ha Ha Ha at the Hawaiian and it cost two pounds to get in and you got an all-you-can-eat Chinese buffet as well. For two quid. For two quid in Cardiff, yeah.

And you guys. Wow. I don't know what's cheaper. You all the food. I can't work it out. But what are the names we are now, Doc? Nowadays, that would be frequent minimum. Okay, so drinks are quite important, aren't they?

Because drinks are a different conversation, a different narrative. And also as well, drinks are a great way of bringing people together, especially if some of your friends aren't necessarily proper foodies that want to sit and talk about the process of doing the cucumber. So you can talk to them about the booze. And so I'd probably start with an elderflower cocktail to begin with, because it's quite sweet but refreshing,

probably with a champagne base, I'm thinking probably with blackberries. Then definitely an aphorol spritz. Let's think about an aphorol spritz that brings everyone together, but not a negroni. An aphorol has to be an aphorol spritz, lighter, fresher, far more universal. And then, and I drink beer, I like lager.

So I will then go on to bottled lager when everyone else goes on to wine. I like that juxtaposition. And then it would be finishing on then spirits. I don't like dark spirits, so I'd get the whiskey and the brandy out and everything else for everyone else if they wanted after their dinner with their chocolates. And I would then start pouring my vodka, but my vodka has to be served in a fish jug.

A fish jug? Yes. What's that? So in Stoke-on-Trent, there's a very famous jug called a guggle jug, and it's shaped like a fish in its tail. And as you pour out of the jug, because of the vacuum of the air where the air can get contained, it makes a g-g-g-g-g-glugging sound.

And so it's called a guggle jug, and I have one. That's my favourite thing. And I don't see... I can't really drink vodka out of anything else. It has to be out of this jug, I mean, into a glass. Yeah, you're not directly from the fish into your mouth? Stoke from the guggle jug. And it has been known when I've DJ'd at festivals and in nightclubs

to take my guggle jug and just get it refilled. It has to be third. I know it's odd. It just happened. It's good. I like a DJ who's got a recognizable proper gimmick or a mascot or whatever. That's good. It's got a guggle jug up there. Deadmouse has got the fake head. I've got my guggle jug. Yeah. So for your drink, you've sort of just picked every booze really, haven't you? Yeah, pretty much. Okay. Yeah. Bit of a drinker. Yeah. Bit of a drinker. Like a drink. Yeah. But not wine. Not wine. And champagne gives me wind. So we steer away. Just fake. But bottle lager doesn't. No, it does as well. But I'm not too pissed to care. So, you know. That's fun. You mentioned elderflower. Is it just every, I just know, I'm having loads of conversations lately where people are saying they're getting into elderflower stuff again. Is it something that is being consciously pushed back into the public consciousness? Or is it just a coincidence that I've had a lot of conversations with people lately where elderflower has been brought up?

Well, if you hang around at the elderflower society, then you're probably going to talk about elderflower quite a lot. I'm thinking, James. Can't help it. It's probably where you put yourself. It's geography. That's what it is. Who are these people you're having conversations with about elderflower recently? Again, I've not told you about some food I've been cooking. You've not been telling me about these elderflower freaks you've been hanging out with. Yeah, good point. Oh, they're freaks now. Wow. Elderflower's good. It's a deep, quick.

But my girlfriend's been getting into it. Rose Johnson was telling me the other day that she really likes elderflower lately. She's been having more elderflower. My mum was saying that she's been having... I mean, these are the only people I've talked to during lockdown, is it? That's three people in the last week have brought up elderflower. There could be a resurgence. I mean, there often is, isn't there? You know, food is trend related. It goes... And it also depends on where we are, our time. And so there could be a moment. And then, you know, I remember not so long ago, it was all about honey in cocktails, wasn't it? It couldn't go anywhere without having a honey cocktail. And so it could be this as a resurgence. Elderflower resurgence. I love a honey cocktail. Honey and lemon and whiskey. Oh, delicious.

Shake that up. Yeah, really good for the hangover, actually. They are good for the day after. Yeah, really good. A hot toddy. Really good for the day after. If you're feeling really particularly... You know, that Sunday where you've gone to the party, for some reason you're out and it's in the countryside somewhere, and you are literally hanging off of your stilettos, you're that rough the next day. And then you hit the pub lunch and you're one of the first in the pub you sit down. If you just have a hot toddy before you do anything else, it completely levels you. There's something incredible about it. We very rarely have guests who come in confidently and say, I want all of these drinks. Yeah. Normally, people feel forced into picking one, but you've just absolutely done the right thing and gone, I want all of these at different points of the evening,

and I've planned out how pissed we're going to get at each point. In my world, we call that a lush, just being a total fucking lush. That's all it is. Such a nice word. Yeah, isn't it? Lush. Yeah, just sounds nice phonetically. But I always get too giddy. I'd love to have all that booze across the evening, but like yesterday, we had a barbecue here and had some friends over, and I was so excited. I had a beer while I was doing the barbecue, and then our friends arrived and I had some sparkling wine and then some wine, and then I was just done. I was done for the night.

Yeah. I just needed to go to bed. I think that just goes back to your impactful cameo. That's it, isn't it? You're already giving yourself a time limit, and so what you're doing is you're trying to intensify all of your experiences for everyone, actually. Which is very generous of you, Ed. I take big sips as well, Gok. There you go.

I can imagine. Such big sips. They should call me the global drug. Absolutely. You're a big sipper. But honestly, whatever you imagine in your head now, Gok, it doesn't do it justice. His big sips are insane. Oh, really? Yeah, it is mad. It's like an actual proper Hoover setting.

Because it doesn't look like he's taken much. It's just a little tip of the glass and already over half gone. But I don't understand why people sip beer, like do little sips. On a hot day, if I have a cold beer, I want to take one sip and for half of it to be gone. Refreshing. Yeah. Maybe I'm just trying to think how do I consume my alcohol? Large quantities, quickly as well.

But then I'm there for the duration. Do you drink water while you're drinking? Sometimes, and sometimes I forget, and that's always the worst. Yeah. So that's my top tip, see? For your excitement and for your big sippage, I think that you need to definitely start consuming the water as well. The tap water. Don't ask James to get it for you.

But then you just have to go to the loo so much. And if you're hosting, you don't want to be in the loo the whole night. Oh, it's a nice break. It is a nice break. And then just think about all those impactful cameos you can make every time you come back. Yeah. I mean, this has got so many pluses. Or just hold it all in and then wet yourself, and that's the ultimate impact cameos, isn't it?

Okay, that's a different type of party yet. Yeah. So we're aware. Different type of party. Your dessert, Scott. Very exciting. For me, this is my favourite of all the courses. Ed's a starter boy.

I like starters. I'm a dessert boy. What do you have it? Nothing. I don't like them. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. I don't like desserts.

I think desserts are a waste of time. You winded me up. Just do it. Just send it for a laugh, aren't you? Because I said it was my favourite. No, no. Nothing. No, there's absolutely zero dessert going on.

You fucking joking. Are you kidding me? Don't swear on me. I have to serve you 15 courses. Yes. We've never had anyone skip dessert before. This is a triumph. No, we're just going to go straight to the booth, you know.

If you want to have an old marshmallow in the cupboard, help yourself. I think I've got a little bit of that. An old marshmallow. Yeah, I think I've got some nut brittle from 72 hanging around somewhere. I will eat that. We're close to my only options.

If you carry on shopping, you're leaving. That's it. Oh, my God. Dave. I love this. It's such a baller move. I can't believe what I'm hearing. But Gox served so much for the mains and the sides.

Yes, thank you, Ed. It's so good. Yeah, but then right straight to the booze. Get into the serious drinking. Start the party. The music's come on. We've changed the lighting. The chairs have been pushed away.

The dishwasher's full. We're pouring the drinks now. We're all having a chat. We're all a bit full. Anybody that wants a dessert, we've got rid of. The party has really started. And I can see why. Because I can see why your parties go on for a long time.

Because dessert draws a line under the meal, doesn't it? It sort of says that's the end. Whereas you want to just carry on. All of those things. I'm not too sure what that noise is. That's pain. It's pain. Me trying to contain my anger, Gox.

You've been a very nice guest. And I don't want to get too angry with you at the end of the episode. But it's not the end of the meal where you have dessert. It's the start of the party, if anything else. It's not. It draws a line. It draws a line. Yeah, no, I agree.

It draws a line. It draws a line under the evening. It says, oh, everyone's going home now because you've had dessert. Whereas the wonderful thing that Gox said about later on, then the curry might come back out. You can't do that if you've had a dessert, can you? Thank you. What? The curry comes back?

Yeah. Oh, my God. That'd be even worse for me. I'd be sitting there thinking, oh, Gox, bring the pot out. This must be the dessert. Because it was weird that we didn't have one fucking curry again. Gox, when you do the dinner parties where 40 people come over, do you ever ask any of them to bring a dessert?

I mean, if they want it, they can have it. I mean, I'd give it no attention, really. It doesn't go pride of place on the table. I mean, sometimes it doesn't even go in the same room. That's how much I'd... That's... What? The living Christ!

Yeah. Where would you put... What room do you put the dessert in? Just like the toilet or something? The outside toilet. The outside toilet. Yeah. The outside toilet.

This is disrespectful. I cannot believe this. I cannot believe what I'm hearing. Yeah. You're telling me you're having 40 people over to your house and not one of them wants a dessert? Yeah. And also, surprisingly, nobody raises their voice, James, either.

I mean, it's a nice dinner party. We all get on. Who are these people? You know, they're grateful people. You know, grateful that they're coming over to a nice house and that somebody's put the effort in to organise a menu and to cook for them. And, you know, we're having great conversation.

We're all getting on. We're talking about where our friendship started, where our friendship's going to. I'll tell you what. I'll be talking about where our friendship ends. If there's no dessert at the party! Oh, God! I cannot believe we've had our first pass on the dessert.

Sometimes people choose Cheez & Biscuits and that gets me angry enough. But... A pass? Yeah. I'm all for it. I think that's great. I'd be so full from all the wonderful main courses.

Oh, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And it also is why you want to say it's a room for, you know, for midnight curry. You know, there's all of that stuff happening, you know. I would be able to eat dessert and still have midnight curry later.

I'd be able to do it. I'm going to go on the record and say that. James, can I ask you what's... So this love affair that you've got with the dessert. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Where does that come from? The fact that it's the best thing in the world.

Oh, sorry. Am I not allowed to like the best thing in the world? LAUGHTER I would say that I come from a sweet toothed family. My father has a sweet tooth. Me and my brother and sister do. It's not just a sweet tooth. It is a full mouth of sweet tooth.

OK, so I did actually make a dessert on the cooking. I made one dessert on the cooking show. OK. And I made a cardamom rice pudding. Lovely. And I did it with a brulee top. And so I put the, you know... Oh, yes.

I also put... I also did chopped macadamia nuts on top, which are similar to a candle nut that you would get in Malaysia. And it means that you can actually use them as fuel so you can burn them as a candle for days. And so what I did is I then chopped up the macadamia nuts and I put them on top of the dessert, and then I grilled them,

and then they kind of went crunchy and a little bit burnt and lovely and sugary. And so, do you know what? Just for you, James. Don't do it, God. Don't do it. Don't do it, God. Don't panda to him.

You've done so much work. Come home. Come home, Gok. Come home. You don't need to... This is your house. This is your dream restaurant. We're in your mouth.

You can't panda to him. Oh, little devil on your shoulder. This is like watching my parents argue. I want to love both of you equally. This is not fair on me. So, Ed, I know you don't want me to, but I feel for James here. He's passionate.

You know, he loves his dessert. I'm going to give him the cardamom rice pudding with the chopped macadamia nuts with the brulee brown sugar. Well, you know what? That sounds very nice, so I'm happy with that as well. Yes.

I'm going to read your menu back to you now, Gok, and tell me how you feel about it. Okay. Water. You would like it? Yeah. Still water from the tap. Problems of bread.

You refused to answer. And then you decided both, and the bread would have to be roasted onion bread with salted butter. Starter. Yuck sun. Main course. Yeah.

Deep breath. Saltfish, red-danned curry, whole sea bass, which the phone is corrected to sea bags, but I'm sure you would like sea bass. Chili and salt pork chops. Tofu with mashed prawn, mappu tofu, morning glory, bok choy,

clear broth with fluffy rice. Side dish. Water dumplings. Drink. An entire bar. Dessert. Originally nothing, but then you decided on rice pudding with cardamom,

brulee on the top of macadamia nuts. Lovely, lovely dessert. Do you know what? I would date me. Yeah. That's it. That's a substantial handsome menu, I think. That's a phenomenal menu.

That's really good. That's a whole evening as well. You've planned the whole night. Thank you so much for coming to the Dream Restaurant. Not a problem. That was lots of fun. Thank you so much. Well, there we have it.

That was the off-menu menu of the brilliant Gok Wan. What a wonderful guest he was, James. A wonderful guest, and thank you, Gok. I will never forget your kindness in adding the dessert, just for me at the end there. That annoyed me. Oh, so gracious. Not many guests have ever done that,

gone out their way to appease me like that, so I will never forget it. I'm annoyed because we've had people pass on the starter before. Greg Davis passed on the starter, and he didn't appease me, did he? Nope, because it's a bullshit course, and he knew that there was no point even wasting his time with it.

I can't believe that he's still this arrogant about it, even though you know it's possible now that people might pass on dessert. It's not possible, because their conscience will get the better of them. Anyway, it does sound like quite a nice dessert, and the most important thing, of course, is that Gok did not say sweetbreads.

Oh, thank you, Gok, for not saying sweetbread, although, you know, I would have liked to have heard the word sweet out of your mouth a little bit more if you know what I'm saying. Desserts. Desserts. We knew what you were saying. So, thank you, Gok,

for not saying sweetbreads and for appeasing James. We will now plug your show, which is called Gok Wan's Easy Asian. It's on the Food Network. It's on Mondays. It's from the 10th of August, and it's also available on Deplay. De-play! Me and Ed both do music podcasts now,

and you can listen to them, listen to Lifers by Ed Gamble on Spotify, and Perfect Sounds with James A. Kaster, also on Spotify, but also on BBC Sounds. We both do music podcasts now, because music is the food of love. We also, we're going to start doing love podcasts, aren't we? Yes, because love is the food of music.

Food. Yes. Thank you very much for listening. We will see you again next week, probably, at Keep On Eating. Don't Go Up! Hello. I'm your dad's friend, Lou Sanders,

and I've launched a new podcast called Cuddle Club. It's better than it sounds, actually. I talked to a special guest about cuddling. There's not another podcast on cuddling, I thought to myself. Guests include Katherine Ryan, Richard Osman, and Alan Davies. It's a perfect gift to yourself or to loved ones,

because it's actually free to download. I'd love you to listen, but you're going to be the loser if you don't. It's worth reminding you that there's no other podcast about cuddling. This business gone crazy. It's available on Apple Podcasts. Of course it is.

Acast, yes. Spotify, wherever you get your podcast, subscribe now, please. Don't do it. Absolute dick piece. Hello, it's me, Amy Gladhill. You might remember me from the best ever episode of Off Menu, where I spoke to my mum

and asked her about seaweed on mashed potato, and our relationship's never been the same since. And I am joined by... Me, Ian Smith. I would probably go bread. I'm not going to spoil it in case... Get him on, James and Ed, but we're here sneaking in to your podcast experience

to tell you about a new podcast that we're doing. It's called Northern News. It's about all the news stories that we've missed out from the north, because, look, we're two Northerners, sure, but we've been living in London for a long time. The news stories are funny. Quite a lot of them crimes.

It's all kicking off, and that's a new podcast called Northern News. We'd love you to listen to. Maybe we'll get my mum on. Get Glendale's mum on every episode. That's Northern News. When's it out, Ian? It's already out now, Amy!

Is it? Yeah, get listening. There's probably a backlog. You've left it so late.