Off-Nominal - 110 - Big “I Made It in Blender” Energy

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

Jake and Anthony are joined by Joe Barnard to talk about what he’s up to and to engage in some alt-history what-ifs.TopicsOff-Nominal - YouTubeEpisode 110 - Big “I Made It in Blender” Energy (with Joe Barnard) - YouTubeJoe Barnard | Out Of Context - YouTubeJoe Barnard 🚀 on Twitter: “I'll do one, I actually think he's kinda cute”DutchSpace on Twitter: “The view you get when you put a couple of camera's on the Dutch solar array wings during deployment (Hi @Airbus_NL ) on-board @ESA European Service Module, part of the Artemis Orion spacecraft :)”GoPro Awards: On a Rocket Launch to Space - YouTubeElectron Stage Separation - YouTubeJoe Barnard 🚀 on Twitter: “Booster looking up at the sustainer after ignition!”Joe Barnard 🚀 on Twitter: “Launched! Found Eeby… well I found the body tube. The avionics have embarked on their own special journey. Second stage is probably somewhere on earth, will keep y’all posted if that location becomes more clear 🥴🔥”Joe Barnard 🚀 on Twitter: “Found Deeby! This rocket became extremely unhappy on the way up and I’m stoked to find out more soon”Follow JoeBPS.space - YouTubeJoe Barnard (@joebarnard) / TwitterBPS.SpaceFollow Off-NominalSubscribe to the show! - Off-NominalSupport the show, join the DiscordOff-Nominal (@offnom) / TwitterOff-Nominal (@[e-mail]) - Spacey SpaceFollow JakeWeMartians Podcast - Follow Humanity's Journey to MarsWeMartians Podcast (@We_Martians) | TwitterJake Robins (@JakeOnOrbit) | TwitterJake Robins (@[e-mail]) - Spacey SpaceFollow AnthonyMain Engine Cut OffMain Engine Cut Off (@WeHaveMECO) | TwitterMain Engine Cut Off (@[e-mail]) - Spacey SpaceAnthony Colangelo (@acolangelo) | TwitterAnthony Colangelo (@[e-mail]) - jawns.club 🐘Off-Nominal MerchandiseOff-Nominal Logo TeeWeMartians Shop | MECO Shop

TLS and go for main engine, start. Hey, friends. Hey. Oh, excellent. Oh, double, double fingers. Yeah, I'm very excited for today. Your mic audio went well last week. Again, like last week, you started with an audio update.

Everything's good. You're doing all right? Everything's good. Great. Look at this. You can see my beautiful untrimmed beard because there's no microphone in the way. I got a fresh cut, so. I can do the lean-in.

I can like think about it. That's true. You couldn't do that before. Yeah. You are the only one without a nice shore mic in front of you right now, though. It's true. Yeah. Not sponsored, unfortunately.

It could be. If we were sponsored, I would have a show. Yeah, we totally could be sponsored. I have no hold up about being sponsored by Shore 100%. I'm totally going to if anyone's listening. So that's great. Jake, do you remember the time on like the fourth episode of the show that we got sponsored with beer and then no one ever sponsored us again?

Yeah, we came out at hot and then... I was like, this is going to be great. At least once a month we'll get sponsored with beer, and no one's ever hit us up again about that. Must have went really bad. Yeah, yeah, must have. Joe, you're here. What's popping?

It's you. How's it going? It's me. I am back. We're here to uncancel old space programs and hopefully not get canceled. That's mission one. Yeah.

The two big ones. Yeah. How are you guys doing? Things are going great, man. Yeah, yeah. Anthony's in a bit of trouble right now, though. I have to advise on this. I am. So, yeah, yeah. He put out a podcast recently. And it is caused a stir in our Discord. Man, if you made me bet when I finished recording that show, what thing the Discord

would get hot and bothered about? Boy, what I've been wrong. He used the term pay to play when. referencing the Blue Origin Lander. Oh, and for follow-up, I used that term on this show last week. Yes, you did, yeah. I don't even want to get into it, really, honestly.

Yeah, yeah. So basically, the long story short is that Anthony is now accusing Jeff Bezos of bribery. Personally. And personally, and we're awaiting legal action from the Bezos team at this point. Okay, yeah, yeah.

Well, I wish you luck in that endeavor. Fighting Jeff Bezos legally seems like, a little bit of an uphill battle, but good luck. If I win, I demanded that there's a statue of me on his next boat. That's the only thing I won out of it. That's your demand. I was going to say, if you filter his lawsuits by Lunarlanders, it's actually pretty good in Anthony's favor.

That's true. Oh, yeah. Got a good run at this one. It's not so bad. Oh, man. Okay. Oh, baby. What you got?

You get drinking over there, Jake? Yeah, yeah, I made another, I've made this before. It looks worse than it is, but this is a tamarind margarito. You froze or something. Oh, there you go. Yeah, yeah, try that. Look at those little, little, are those metal ice cubes or metal, old cubes? What do you call them if they're not ice?

Metal cold cubes. Well, there's ice inside of them because they're filled with water. Oh, okay. They're like armored ice cubes. Huh. Yeah. I want some of those but like tungsten. So it's like just crazy dense.

It should be able to hold heat better than water. right? You're the scientists literally here. Yeah, yeah. We would both ask you. That's a U department. That's out of my depth. With a rocket sitting behind you, so that's definitely a U department. Yeah, no, that's out of my depth. I don't know the answer to that. I know the term specific heat capacity, and I know water is good,

and that is the end of where I'm good with it. So that's why there's water inside, yeah. What do you guys got? Well, Jake, it's officially summer. culturally. So I got myself some Cape May IPA. It's down the beach this weekend. Oh, the crab. Claws up, dude. Yeah, I mean, and then look at the sweet glass. I feel like I've used this glass before. Look at this thing. I think you have. Yeah. That's pretty fishing boat. The lighthouse is there. No, it's the buoy. I forgot if the lighthouse is there. It is funny, the lighthouse isn't on there.

I feel like Cape May Point Lighthouse should be on that glass, but it's not. So it's good. look how inquisitive Jake is at me. Starlink struggling today, everybody. Is it? Yeah. Are you on Starlink? Yeah, yeah. Oh, all right.

This is going to space and back. How that? Okay. Shout out to Starlink. Very sweet. As it is latent on our show. Yeah, yeah. Starlink really needs a shout out.

We're going to give them some good PR. This community of space enthusiasts. Yeah. Did you bring anything fun? I did. I did. I found this thing that I felt would be a good, it. So earlier this week, you tweeted that

we're going to uncanceled Dragon XL. And I am, I mean, first and foremost, my most important job is I am an influencer, right? I'm a notable YouTube celebrity influencer. So I found this one called Dragons and Influencers. I thought it would be perfect. And then you also tweeted earlier that we had to have nice glassware. So I picked out my nicest glassware,

which is my birthday. princess with the little pink fuzzy at the bottom. So that's what we're doing today. That's what we got going on. The pink fuzzy is really important because then you can differentiate your glass from other people's birthday. All the other people. Case you have a birthday party at the same time as another birthday princess for sure.

Right. Right. Yeah. Major. Feature. Same idea, right? Yeah, that's like a wine charm. Yeah.

Man, he really did his own work on this one. I did. I felt like, you know, you got, you got, you got, to show up. You put in the work. I don't know how to finish that sentence. But yeah, put in the work. I work really hard, you guys.

That's why we love you, for sure. That is why we love you. And we even on that note, we did, what's going on here? Am I still here? Yeah. I have a very concerning message in e-cam that says, you're offline, but yet I'm still here talking on the internet.

So we're going to roll with it. As long as I'm talking to you two, I'm talking to the rest of the internet. So. Oh, every, wait, can I? I can I pause the podcast really quick? So someone commented and said I love the JWST mirror in the background. So I have these gold mirrors up there. And I just,

I want to give everyone a quick warning. The bottom mirror piece, the bottom Borrelia mirror piece continues to fall off. It does it very reliably. I've tried different tapes. I don't know what it is. There's something in the wall. So if in the middle of the podcast,

there's like a loud crashing sound, that's what that's saying? Man, do I hope that happens? That's what happens, yeah. We need to pay off on that one, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Now that you've teased it especially, right? Jake, I also have a backup game maybe you're called Always Ready,

which is definitely not indicative of how I feel, Jake, about the topics at which you have selected for us this week. Yeah, well, so we wanted to have a little fun this week. And, like, these came from, these are prompts from when we did the collection of data, right, from the listeners about the new meds game? Once again, they just did so bad at that game. They gave us so many things that did not fit the format that I was looking for. That we made an entire other list of interesting thoughts that didn't fit that theme.

So we peruse that a bit. Yeah, we finally went through all of them. And we found a few that were kind of related. And the theme here is basically like alt history questions. So like, what if you could go back in time and do X, what would you do or whatever? how would you change something or what alternative path would you take? And I thought that was kind of a fun prompt. And so I figured that Joe, you'd be into it.

And we are. We're doing something weird. So I don't know, Anthony, you wanted to just grab the top one and start this off? How do we want to tackle this? What do you think? Yeah, we're going to need to talk these out because I'm not entirely confident in some of my answers. Some of them have easy answers and some of them have obvious answers.

Yeah. And some of them have non-obvious. But that's boring show content. That is boring show content. Except for when it isn't. Which is how I feel about at least my first one, which is which failed robotic spacecraft mission do you most wish would have succeeded.

Hmm. So. Okay. Well, hit us with it then. Yeah. So the stipulation on this one, again, because everyone was so bad at the format of newlyweds game, there were like criteria on some of these.

This one was failure meaning like before it did actively did stuff, right? not like it was doing stuff for a while and got stuck. So not like insight or... Spirit, like getting stuck after a while, right? Like, straight up, it didn't work. Yeah, so just to draw the line, like, before it could start any part of its, like, scientific mission, it didn't work.

Yeah, okay, cool. Justice Potter Stewart, you know it when you see it. I would say, I would take that. So, like, fail on the way to the destination qualifies. So sometimes... The definition said sometime after the launch countdown start, but before it achieved objectives. Great. Okay. Cool.

Yeah. My, my answer will further define where we're out on this, because I'm just straight up saying Beagle 2. Like, and here's why, here's why. This is a good one. I like this. The, the, now, as much of an American as I am, like, you know, I'm an American from the East Coast, so I don't mind bragging one bit, right? But knowing now what we know about Beagle 2 and just how damn close it was to, doing everything.

Boy, did we use that to maintain Mars supremacy for decades on a completely unnecessary level. Much of which, Jake, you personally, through your time doing a podcast about Mars, have tried to unravel how, like, yes,

only one agency can put things on the surface of Mars, but no, it's not different every time. It's the same thing that they just keep nailing time and time again and getting better and better at. It's never as risky as they say. They just keep nailing it. If Beagle 2 just worked, we would have stopped talking about, that like a long time ago you know 20 years ago maybe it's like right about 20 years right 22 I think it was 2001 right yeah it was Mars Express yeah it's getting old then

I'm sure I think I saw 2003 what I mixing up oh yeah Mars of Odyssey's oh one you're right you're thinking of Odyssey yes yeah yeah yeah yeah you got 20 years just like that would have really changed the way that Mars was talked about I don't think it would have done anything like Do you think that would have actually altered the trajectory of stuff, though? I mean, maybe it would have made, like, Europe go for it more after that. Right. Maybe. I don't know.

Oh, this is great. My answer's going to be similar then. Oh, yeah? What do you got? Mine's recent, and there's not as good of a reason. Like, I feel like you have a pretty good reason for years of, like, oh, this would have been different if. I just wanted the XOMAR's, like, Lander to work or the Skiaparelli. Yeah.

And it's such a frustrating failure, too, because it was like a code bug that was, it just like thought it had landed at like 60 kilometers up, right? And so it just like yeated the parachute and said, all right, I'm done. Nailed it. But yeah, I mean, I think it's the same, like, I feel like ESA would have, I don't have a great reason behind it. I just like want some wins for ESA. I was pumped about that one for sure.

That one, there was good hype around it. we had the stream going for it like things were feeling great and then it was just like blunk well and that one is super interesting too because it was a novel way to land right like it didn't have the like it had that that super like crush core thing so it was like you know it hit really hard

that was in the plan right but it's not that hard but you know it was still in the plan to kind of crush and land right which I think we've been cool if we could have proved out a I want more crush core stuff I JPL has a good YouTube channel and they published this thing like a year or two ago of they

they milled this thing, this like cone-shaped re-entry vehicle out of billet aluminum or stainless or something like that. But the whole thing was designed to crumple. And so your lander feels like, I don't know, four or five hundred Gs. And they just let it ball out through the atmosphere and smack into the ground. And like, but they engineered it that the deceleration was enough that like you could probably survive or like the electronics could, you know. I want more of that. man you've never said a bunch of words in a row that sounded more like you than that like I want more shit that I can crash into the hard surface with reckless abandon I love that I want to slam shit into other planets that's what I want to do it's great it's true

it's true let though break baby yeah I like about this one and and uh Zuma it's Zuma it's it's Zuma no it's not it's not Zuma we don't know who that was robotic for the record. So we've heard so many different reports of like, oh, no, it's fine. It's doing just great up there. And no, it completely failed. Like I, yeah, good disinformation campaign. It's the best space conspiracy.

I love it. So, yeah, I know. I was thinking about this. And my answer is like it doesn't come from Jake the fan. It comes from Jake the lowercase J. Journalist because I think this would be like an interesting change of events, even though I don't know exactly if I'd be happy. about it. But if the dual failures of 99, the Mars lander, Mars Climate Orbiter and the Mars

polar lander, if those has succeeded, I think about this moment like so much because everything in the Mars program after that was because of that failure, like very specifically, you know, the spirit and opportunity rovers were like the direct answer to that. That's why there's two is because they were worried that one would fail and they could not suffer another failure. And then those two rovers, you know, pioneered all the technology that curiosity needed and then perseverance needed and everything was poor. Like, there was just so much that fell into place because of that, that I think that if those had succeeded and like faster, better, cheaper was good and everyone liked it still.

Like, what would have happened? I don't know. I can't. It's like such a weird question that would change everything that I'm kind of attracted to it. So that's my answer. I could have guessed that one. Turns out that was a good question for newlyweds because I could have guessed that one. so that's unfortunate for my previous statement but you're right I do like that because

many of the the like dominoes that fell after that are things that your entire shows run tracked of like you know the what now moment of that even was it the last show that you did or a couple shows towards the end he did one focused on or maybe we just talked about it I I don't remember. I have a foggy memory of very recently going on at length about faster, better, cheaper, and what was going on about. Yeah, we talked about it with Mark Albrecht, right? That's probably what I'm thinking of. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that might know what we were talking about for sure. But yeah, no, I just,

Fatser Better, Cheaper is like a fascinating time period for me. That's a whole 90s. Mars was like hot. They were just churning out weird new shit. Everyone was so scrappy. Like, every, like, team was just like, like, you know, it's like 10 nerdy looking dudes and one one nerdy lady in the JPL control room with the peanuts. And they're like, they're pulling their hair out and they're still stressed out. Right. Like, like, like, that time period is just like, I don't know. It's very charming to me.

And I think about it. Okay, but I can save one of those missions. If you land and you don't need engines, you just slam shit into the planet, one of those would have been fine. Now, Mars climate orbiter was always going to miss, but like, totally fucked. Yeah. Yeah, so by your logic, Joe, all of the moonlanders of recent years would have been successful. It would have been fine. They all crashed into the surface at a reasonable speed for a crush core.

None of them really went in at like Mach 7. Like they all hit a fairly reasonable speed. The Hokuto R one is that's pretty heartbreaking. That's like, because it wasn't that they picked the landing site early and then they re-desigated the landing site, but they ran all of their tests with the old landing site unlike they're filtering. That's too bad. That's a brutal one because like the second that you'd think about that,

you're like, oh, shit. Like that was the one thing that we didn't do. Yeah. But notably, we didn't pick that one. None of us would have saved it. We had a chance here and none of us picked it. It's different. It's different if it's a government program

because the government programs, like they have so much follow-on stuff that happens because of how the program goes. So, like, it has to be, it kind of has to be one of those. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or in my case, just a little bit of cracking of American exceptionalism, I guess, was my base. My root take. Yeah, I think we could, we could use that. We could really benefit.

It's not even really American exceptionalism. It's like straight up JPL exceptionalism. Yeah. You know? Jet propulsion lab exceptionalism. Yeah. Just, listen, Joe, all you need to do is infiltrate one of those Christmas parties because that's apparently where all the good stuff gets swapped.

big times coming out right Jake we're going to get the results of the review of the psyche review next week yeah can't wait to hear about the Christmas party can't wait to be in there it's gonna make an appearance psyche is it my hodge i'm gonna that in the prediction thing psyche's 2024 now for launch no it's this year isn't it 23 is it this year it was supposed to be last fall now is this fall 23 yeah yeah i mean we'll see right sure We'll see. October 5th. All I'll say is they didn't schedule that review for a Friday afternoon.

So take that. And they didn't schedule it for a Thursday afternoon either. Emergently, which I only found out about 21 minutes ago. Looking at you, Boeing. Looking at you. Yeah, no, I was just going to bring that up. Speaking of scheduling last minute reviews, isn't Boeing doing something today? Yeah, in about 40 minutes.

So right out of this show. Do you guys want to do like the live reaction stream? You know what I've wanted to do? You know what I wanted to do so bad is take someone's space reaction launch stream and then stream my reaction to their reaction. Like, I want to rebroadcast someone else's rebroadcast, and I'm only going to react to the way that they react. I'm not even going to address the launch or whatever the coverage is.

That's what I want to do. Joe, the first clips lander to go to the moon, you need to do that. That's the one. It's the clips lander. I'm just going to re-refer. broadcast Tim Dodd and I'm only going to talk about what Tim Dodd is saying and like how I think he's doing as a person. I'm not going to address plan. If you want to practice run, we should send you our Falcon Heavy video because it's legendary.

Yeah, totally. I think it'd be really fun. That would be really funny. All right. Let's uncancel something, Jake. Okay. This one says if you could resurrect any canceled human space. craft program.

Okay, well, it said ones that never got to fly people, but we think... We think we should throw them all in there. Yeah. Whether they flew people or not. If you want to uncancel it, what do you go for? Maybe one of each. Which one of each? You know? Do you got any particular ones you love, Joe?

Yes. The answer is obvious to me. We should all say it on three. Okay? You ready? One, two, three, Baran. Man, ordering. laboratory. Okay, you're both wrong, like categorically. It's definitely wrong.

We, it's the same reason as, as your answer earlier, like, we need some type of, like, that was a good ship. That was a good program. And it got canceled for, you know, capital R reasons. But like, it. The failure of a nation state of an empire. Sure. Like, as you do.

But we just like, it's the same reason that you would want to uncansel. characters in the wake of ancient Rome collapsing. You would want to uncancel N1. And like N1 was technically more of a disaster in like a couple of different ways. But like the Buran was like a great answer to the space shuttle and like would have made us think harder and try harder and like do better with the shuttle program. I think. And oh my God, could you imagine like, you know, run history out.

I guess, I guess hypothetically, if Iran stayed intact, so would the Soviet Union. So the Apollo Soyos era wouldn't have happened. I think that might be a bridge too far, but yeah, go off. In your old history, like, it didn't, it died for reasons, Kevilar reasons. I'm okay with the Soviet Union collapsing. Yeah, yeah. No, no, I wasn't making a moral judgment on that. I'm just saying, like, would then collaboration have happened?

Because I just want to see some like top gun style, you know, I was inverted shit happening with a shuttle and a baron yeah you want to see some like apollo so i use but yeah but you know yeah totally okay yeah did baron have the docking thing in the same spot would it have done like the top of the head docking i don't know that's not that's a technical term for how shuttle dies i mean i mean did they plan a docket to anything no they never did really anything with it joe no no but did they did they plan to dock it with anything is is my question i hope so yeah i'm sure they had a plan to with a saluta or whatever, right? Like a whatever there was before a mirror, right?

Something, some sort of premiere. Yeah. And I think the premiere. Okay. So it's like, imagine, imagine the top gun scene. But, you know, it's like John Young. So, ignoring that both of your answers are wrong, what spaceflight programs are you guys on canceling? Go ahead, Jake.

Okay. So I have an answer that kind of satisfies both. options of this thing. It's a program that did fly people, but in the incarnation that I'm thinking about, did. So I want to uncancel Apollo applications. I think that would have been great. Okay, when we've talked about this before, like, we've had shows about this with the, like the Venus flyby and the Apollo capsule, like that was on the table at some point,

like, just wild stuff, putting Apollo like on the moon, or on the, sorry, on the Mars with the Apollo capsule landing on Mars and just like all. sorts of crazy shit. They were going to hot rod the shit out of that thing and just do whatever they could. Like obviously they had some crazy ideas. Like because if you if if you were just like a bunch of engineers like you know and you were just like here's here's a fully functional super heavy lift rocket program and we don't know what to do with it anymore come up with some ideas like what a what an awesome job those people had right just like sit in the room like okay well I think we can send this to Venus. All right. Let's do like there's just like imagination ran wild and there was such

crazy stuff there, I would have loved it. That's what I'm all in. My favorite thing about Apollo applications is the name implies that the Apollo program itself was like completely superfluous. Like, okay, but how do we apply it? You know, like, I do love that. That's like, we're done with our little side quest to the moon. What are we really doing? Like, we did the thing that JFK wanted. And like, now what do we do actually? And, and, and now here we are all these years later. We're like, yeah, actually, like, what then what? Yeah. It's like, okay, Apollo's coming. out of beta now what should we actually do it yeah that's Apollo was the most Google of space programs like all right we launched it there it is oh wow Apollo

applications is great one yeah that's good yeah I mean yeah the funny part is like you're you're a skylab apologist now too Jake so I like skylab wait what's the issue with sky lab oh oh that's the that's the bit here is that I I am a alternate history fan of what if skylab was everything and there was no ISS that's like my alt history thing so okay yeah yeah that's a different question but I picked manned orbiting laboratory because it's just so fucking weird it's such a weird program it made no sense but I love Gemini and something in there would not have worked right they would have realized that like it was useless to have people there

which they did, and that's why I got canceled. They were going to crawl through the heat. There was going to be heat shield hatch. Like, what? Why was there going to be heat shield hatch? Heat shield hatch. Return the legs to Dragon. I don't.

We need to get braver. Cut some holes in that heat shield. This is the best. So if MOL was not cancer, MOL was not cancer. Dragon would have a heat shield legs. That's the connection. Wait, sorry.

Say again. If manned orbiting laboratory survived, Dragon would still have heat shield legs. I think I stand by that. I think that's an admirable take. Yeah. We're here to defend that kind of thing. Yeah, I'm uncancelling Red Dragon.

That's what I'm uncancelling. Red Dragon. That's some real talk right there. We weren't ready for that. Yeah. I mean, I don't think they were in any way prepared to actually go through with that mission, but like, I'm uncantling it. Definitely not.

Not in any way. Do you consider any others or any other honorable mention human spaceflight programs that you love? For me, it's just Barron. Dragon. Just Barron. That's it. Dragon X-L. Should we talk about that?

Dragon X-L. Dragon X-L doesn't exist. Just listen, Jake, can't hurt you. Listen, if you listen to my most recent show, Dragon X-L is going to be canceled by the debt limit crisis. So, there you go. Exactly. There you have. No, but Joe, you tweeted the end of day, like, what's your most, like, cancelable space take?

And I talked about my Falcon Heavy Take, but my other one is definitely the Dragon XL take where I don't think it's actually real. I get, I get so much flack on Twitter when people come out from you for that one. I love that. What's your, what's your Falcon Heavy Take? That it's overrated, yeah. Oh, I agree with that. It's a pretty rocket, but it has a weird place. Yeah.

I don't think it's. It's like properly rated for a rocket that does nothing other than look good on a webcast and like does cool shit. But it's a weird launch vehicle. Yeah, yeah. Entire, your entire YouTube presence. Yeah. I'm just kidding. No, I mean, look at it valid.

Look at those things. Anyway. Come on. Shout out. Subscribe to BPS space. All right. What are we doing next? Uh, similar, very, very similar, but even a little bit broader.

Uh, if you could go back in time and change one decision in space history, what would it be? This one does have some knock on effects, I'm pretty sure, right? Because you could go, you could go minute. You could go pretty grand with this. Uh, I, the way I was thinking about it was like, like, if you're going to try to save the earth from an asteroid, you want to try to do it really early. so you only have to push it a little bit rather than doing a lot of work at the end. You know, so like, you could go back 10 years

and try to change some real big decisions about, like, the current space program, but that feels less efficient than going back 50 years and doing a small change, which is kind of where I, this is where, this is the route I went down. I'm going to roll this one out to you

and see how this plays. What if Apollo did Earth orbit rendezvous? Oh. Like, what if we were super committed to very complex space missions using orbital assembly before it was a requirement for the ISS. So Earth orbit rendezvous means you bring the whole lander and land the whole lander on the moon, right?

No, that was... That's Lunar Rendezvous. That's direct descent, isn't it? That was like... Oh, okay. Earth orbit rendezvous was like constellation was launched the crew and the lander to Earth orbit rendezvous and then fly to the moon.

Yeah. But I think in the version of pro polo, wasn't there one where you would do that and you would land the return thing on the moon? Like there was a vehicle stipulation about it. It was three options, right? There was like direct descent, which ultimately would have like required that big Nova, like the Saturn 5 successor. The monster. The chunky Saturn. And then there was Earth orbit rendezvous, which is like two launches to put the thing together and go to the moon.

And then what they ended up with, which was the lunar orbit rendezvous and the one we know, right? So I think those were the big three on the table, right? Yes, and I don't even really particularly care about the vehicles that you would do either one with. My pure point of this is, like, I think Apollo flying the way that it did require... Number one, it required Saturn 5, which Earth Orbit Rendezvous did not. So that has implications for how sustainable Apollo itself would have been. Oh. Number two, like, how many years have we spent trying to do Apollo on steroids,

which has launched everything all the way to the moon at one go, rather than like, what if we did a sensibly sized lander and a sensibly sized crew vehicle? And what if in the Apollo era, the lander was reusable because it would fly back to Earth orbit rendezvous back up for a turn and the lander would stay up there to go again? I think there are some dominoes there that would lend itself to more sensible budgets for more repeated lunar missions. I'm just not convinced that like the budget was the total thing driving us like not doing this. moon shit anymore. Just because, like, I think we felt like we won. And, like, it would have, that same thing would have happened with Earth orbit.

Whatever the next thing was. Although, unless it didn't work, in which case, you know, who knows? Yeah. Well, I mean, so the, to defend Anthony's idea, if you had made technology that was less specialized, right? Like, if it was too smaller rockets that maybe would have had a use for something else, then maybe, like, you know, absent of the budget, they could have come up with ideas that weren't like, you know, the first idea that came out of the post-apologates was like,

hey, what if we spent like a half a trillion dollars and built up based on Mars? And they're like, we don't want to do that. But if it'd come up like something very sensible and reasonable that would have like, you know, use the existing hardware, that might have been, that might have been enough, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I don't know.

I like that. That was the smallest tweak that I could, I could look at from a decision level that I would have the biggest effects. So I was looking purely in leverage, right? So I did the exact same thing as you, but I went on the other side of the iron curtain. Okay. Nice. Let's hear it. So what if they picked proton instead of N1, right? What if they picked the UR, like the Universal Rocket Series, UR series, which is what proton came from?

That was the competitor to N1, right? So they had the two different design heroes. And they just had like proton on mega steroids for like their moon stuff, right? Yeah. I think proton was like you are, they had like a hundred numbering scheme. there was like 500, 700, 900. I think Proton was 5 or 700, and then there was like this 900 division, which was like the most curble-looking rocket you have ever seen in your life.

Like Google, you are dash 900 and bring that up. And it's like, it's literally just like, how many different rockets can we just strap together and tie it with a big belt and then go to space with it? It's like basically the idea that they wanted to do with that. But I mean, like ultimately N1 was a technical failure and Proton was not. So like what?

If they had, there it is there. You can see. Oh, yeah. Look at this thing. They're amazing. So. There's grid fins on the bottom left there? Jumous humongous.

Wow. They are grid fins. Yeah. Yeah. Look at that. Trying to figure out how it gets from the left configuration to the middle configuration is a real feat. Like, what is going on there?

Yeah. I don't understand. Those are like, those are like, um, Buran Energia side booster things. Like those like kind of tape. side push or whatever, right? That was a cool vehicle. So if they'd pick this and the moon program had been more successful,

I don't know, man. Maybe. They picked the wrong horse in their moon race. Yeah. I think both of your answers are better than mine. I'm definitely, I'm into a reality that, like, makes the Russia slash Soviet Union space program more successful just so that we don't like,

I feel like you know kind of give up a little bit but my answer is a much smaller scale I just I want Delta 3 back I want that wacky looking rocket flying I want I want Delta 3 back

and I want it to replace Delta 2 and I want it to have the successful career that Delta 2 ended up having and I think that the failure of Delta 3 was just a it was a program and like economic failure, right? Like, the market wasn't fair. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, they borked up the first few flights pretty good.

And like one of them wasn't even their fault because it was the RL10 that just like had a crack or something, right? Is that a centaur on top? That's what it is, right? It is. It's the Delta. No, it's a centaur. It's a Delta upper stage. It's a, wait, SLS is Delta 3 derived.

There it is. but yeah i want i want i want delta three back i because like the third flight sort of worked right the first flight is so funny my god this thing's hilarious second flight had the rl 10 failure and the third flight was a mass simulator because no one would fly on it i mean reasonably and i think if someone had just had the had the had the cohenes to be like yeah i'll i'll do it i think it would have been good this vehicle there wasn't a mark in the thing where you put your hand up and you cover up one half of this, cover up the bottom, and then cover up the top.

And it's like, wow, it really is Delta 3. Like, that's the perfect name for this. It was literally halfway between. Two and four. Unreal. Yeah. What a stupid-looking rocket. God.

This has big... Wait, can you go back to that picture one more time? I sure can. I would look at this all day if you want. This has big... I made this in Blender energy. How do you feel about Air and four? Are you there or not?

Aryan 4 as well. Okay, Aryan 4 has that a little bit too, but this has big, like, we at Elon Musk, hey, what do you think of this idea? I made it in blender energy, you know? I think Aryan 4 has that. Aryan 4 is though like your first, your first blender thing, right? Yeah, yeah, that's your first project. I just started figuring out blender.

I didn't have, I can't put that many objects out there yet, but it all looks really strange and it doesn't go together, right? And even, even the upper stage insulation that looks like brick. It's like you change the texture and you like couldn't figure out how to change it back. I wonder what this button does. Oops, I don't know how to do that again. Yeah. Delta 4, area.

Delta 3, Aryan 4. Shout out. A great. Shout out. Yeah. Yeah. Good ones. Yeah.

These are good. Really good ones. Delta 3. I do have a, uh, um, I'm pulling up a little topical, topical pick here, Jake. Um, So from, you know, remember when I went on this trip recently to New Mexico? I went to the nuclear museum in Albuquerque, which also, I wanted to go there.

Shout out Stan Scholl, who recognized me at the museum, and we ran into each other. And he was like, Anthony, as I'm chasing Will around, Will was really into the broken arrows that they have there, which are nukes that fell out of planes and just didn't quite go off. We spent probably 30 minutes at the broken arrow spot with him telling me this one fell out of a plane and got all crunched and that one fell out of a plane and got all crunched and we went back and forth for about a half hour when I ran into Stan which was awesome but outside out back

there's like a little bit of a plane and rocket garden and there is a Thor rocket which is awesome right Delta Delta Delta heritage and you can see Will was driving the transporter You can still sit in the seat. Look, he's driving in there. Look at that.

You can sit in the seat. And in the background over, one or two over, there's a, there's a Titan 2 over there, which is sweet. And you can stick your head inside the LR 87s, but there are pigeons that live in there now. So don't go in too far. I held Will up into the engine bell and he said, there are chickens in here. And I was like, I think that's true. No, no, I believe history. I like that there's chickens in there.

I have a little sidebar. If Thor evolves into Delta and Delta somewhat evolves into SLS block one, is SLS Thor derived? There it is. SLS has directly bombed Cuba. Wasn't it a Thor that's made it in Cuba? Wasn't that the Thor when they were,

or was it a, what was it? What was it? Which one was it? I don't think. They sent a Thor to Cuba, did they? They were trying that polar route, and then they... Oh, oh, accidentally, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I was like, I don't remember that. Yeah. I got to look, I got a fact check myself real quick. I mean, Joe, you're basically just like, you're touching on the sore point of all rocketry that it's all just military derived. It's all the same. Well, yeah, yeah.

It's all just nukes. That's everything... I mean, SLS is a program, too, uh, is like, that having those solids is a really important part for, like, the U.S. to maintain solids technology. Like, that's, right? It's also, you know, like, we'll just reuse the shuttle boosters

and it'll cost nothing. Sure will cost nothing. See, also, all of Eric Berger's recent reporting. I love that stuff. Okay, I don't see one topic ago. I love that stuff where it's like, like the ISS was a way to get Soviet engineers not working for people

we don't want them to work for. Like, I'm really, interested in that type of history where it's decisions that get made for political reasons like that that ultimately end up like building cool shit like the ISS is great but uh i'm really interested in that stuff yeah yeah yeah that's a whole one that's your old history yeah i actually i thought of that for this for this question like what if what if the u.s had decided to just just let russia fall apart and just not intervene you know like what if they had taken a more isolationist strategy with that.

And who knows, man? Like, if North Korea wouldn't have happened. Yeah, that's my current take is like, everyone fear mongering, well, if we buy Rutsche out of the ISS, then they'll go work with China. I'm like, I don't know. Sure, go ahead if they want.

Like, that's on them to decide if they would like some Soyuzzi's MS-09s and MS-10s and Zvezdas and Naucas in their life, then they can have it. That's fine. Yeah. I think even by then the cat was out of the bag in terms of like how to build a launch vehicle like yeah it was you know figured that one everyone was going to figure it out yeah yeah yeah it's funny how many piece of technology

were not like that with you know like there are there are a lot of technology we're like oh but if everyone figures this one out but like that line somehow that's throughout history right oh yeah i mean i i am like thousands of years going to be like well when they figure out agriculture like whoo like are we in some trouble you know i'm so close to figuring out how to build a icbm all i need to know is what the sLS disconnect plate looks like that's all i need that's the last thing i need it's the one piece if anyone wonders why we have joe on the show i hope you understand It's the last, it's the one missing piece.

I need to figure out how to fuel a hydrolox launch vehicle to make an ICBM. Joe, is that you just have to go to L2 for that. It's there. Don't worry. Not at all. For the low, low price of a lifetime membership. Yeah. You can have all of your ICBM dreams.

Tens of dollars and you're good, baby. Excellent. Man, that's fine. Oh, wow. All right, we got a couple left here. What else we got, Jake? Uh, this one's simple. similar to the first one we started with. If you could change anything about a robotic spacecraft

in history prior to launch, what would it be? This is a super weird one. This one's very obvious to me. Okay. All right. Big shot. Everyone has said this over and over again. We should have put windshield wipers on insight. That's great. Oh my gosh. Your entire podcast of career is built up to this moment. That's great. I don't know what those idiots had now is that we're thinking, but God puts some windshield wipers on those babies I'm not think of that that's really good yeah that's a good answer

yeah well is that your legitimate answer is we want windshield wipers on him purely so that he doesn't have to answer it yes yes exactly that to save his email inbox yes that's his legitimate answer yeah he would like it's flown once to show that it would not actually be a thing

I don't have an answer so I'm going to listen what yours is first, and then I'll come up with one. Mine's pretty weird. So you know that epic shot of Apollo 17 blasting off from the lunar surface? You ever seen that one? Yeah. Where the guy, like, he like manually pushed the button a couple times with the right latency to like, yeah.

I would like one in the other direction, where it's landing on the moon. So, and this is, grantedly, that's not a word. granted, this is a very large change that has sweeping, you know, like downstream effects that probably exceed the bounds of this question. But Surveyor 3 had an Apollo mission land right next to it. I would love to make it a very long-lived lunar mission that also had a camera. And it could live long enough. I don't think it survived the first lunar night unlike other surveyor missions.

It died pretty quickly. but I would love to like retool that thing into a long-lived lunar lander specifically to film Apollo. And then also what would be fun is like all these current debates with Phil Metzger talking about like what's going to happen when we land on the moon with all the regalith flying everywhere because of rocket plumes. We'd have a little video footage, which would be great. Regalith isn't real. Dust isn't real. You can just fire directly into the surface. It's all fake. I love it.

This is why your rockets work so well. Yeah, every single time. You don't worry about landing because you just crash as hard as possible. And you don't worry about dust at all in the Omaha desert. That rocket in the background is made of cardboard. And it failed to land like six times, right? And it's there. I don't know why they haven't considered doing their lunar lander out of cardboard.

Because like it clearly works. Cardboard's the answer. Elon's going to listen to this and be like, yeah. Destroy all the tooling. That's it. He's going to listen to this. He's going to clip it, tweet it, and go looking at it.

into this. He's like, I think IKEA's really up to something with densified cardboard. We densify a propellant. Why don't we do that with cardboard? I think my only thing I would change is just more cameras everywhere. We have so much tech at this point. And like, do you guys see that, that recent solar array unfolding stuff from Orion? Yes.

From the Artemis Mission. Like, beautiful. We have, and those are, dude, those are like, Go-Promeda. threes or something. Like they're not even they're old tech and we have all of the capability to just pepper we could pepper cameras everywhere

and I want us to do it more as a species. I totally agree that. The two shots that I like crave and I know they'll never really happen but I want to have like a chase plane but a rocket on launch so like two rockets go up and like one

building the other. And then I want the same. I want like a chase plane, but a reentry capsule to like look back at, you know, Orion coming home or something. And, you know, incredible,

a very challenge, but I think it would be amazing. Especially with rockets that recover. I know Falcon is pretty much like locked. I don't think they're doing any work on it at this point, like other than just building more. But like there's, oh yeah,

there's the footage. Like there's so much room for other interesting shots on that vehicle where like, because it's recovered, you don't even have, to broadcast the footage. You just provide a little 12-volt line to the camera and then tell it to hit the gas.

And like, you get beautiful footage like this. Wow. That's a crazy shot. That's awesome. Yeah. These are the ones that really make stuff look real. Yeah. Wow. I need more. The pictures of the space trap themselves has always

been like... Even just those shots are like so inspiring. Like there's a bunch of like desktop wallpapers within all that footage. and this is like it's achievable we have all of the tech that we need we just need like three or four people at each company working on like we have to get shots purely for PR like not engineering like maybe there's some follow on use for it but purely for PR have you guys ever seen that um the GoPro awards video it's an up aerospace rocket so it's like a suborbital rocket and the camera happens to catch these two two sections of the rocket separating. Oh, yeah, yeah, with the spin down thing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's like that, it was an accidental shot. But this is, I don't know if you want to segue into like Joey B stuff, but like this is what I'm trying to capture with my space shot stuff. We're trying to fly like 20 cameras. Is this the one? Yeah, this is it. And it's so if you go to like the middle of the video, it should be somewhere around there.

There's this like shot. Yeah, that's it. That happens accidentally. And it's like we are able to achieve these shots on purpose and we just like choose not to. Oh, yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. It's so satisfying.

Yeah. Rocket Lab's definitely done some shots like that. Yeah. Right. Because they have these staging cameras that like they can't stream down from. You never see it in the broadcast. But because they get it back, they've got this awesome like stage separation shot. You get the sound of the actuators pushing the stage away.

Yeah. The good thunk. Awesome. Yeah. I think it's a 360 camera, actually. I think it's one of those GoPro 360s. Oh, beautiful. So good.

Yeah. So are you doing this in all your rockets now? I'm putting as many cameras as a time. Are you living in your life that you're preaching? I am. I am. When I do this space shot thing, I want to eject one, maybe two cubes with, like, reaction wheels in them.

And the whole goal is they just like stabilize and shoot 4K, 120 frames per second. Like, that's it, right? You just shoot the most beautiful footage you can. You look back at the rocket. You look at the horizon. You look deep into the blackness of space. Like, anything that you want,

it will be the most well-covered launch. We need that, apparently. There's been some grumbles. So, yeah, yeah. So that's my change. It's a little bit of a question modification. But, yeah. I love it.

I love that. Tell us about it. So what's your implications of doing that, though? Like, does that change a lot of work? It's cool as hell. It's just a new fun thing to work on. It's so cool. The people who do space stuff, like the people who are working in space, they know how

cool it is because they're already there. But, like, most of the general public, like, doesn't, I feel like they don't get, like, the awe of it until they're presented with that really cool imagery, right? And there's no problem with that. Like, we believe what we see. and there's opportunities to show people so much more of how cool this stuff is. And like, you know, for Hokuto R or for Bear Sheet or like any of these landers, like, it's a private company, I get it, but like if you doubled your link budget in terms of your radios

and you beamed back live, like coming down to the moon footage, that would be all over tons of news sites. It's like it's great PR. It's not everything is about PR, and I'm a YouTuber, so like, to me it is. But I don't know. I just think there's like opportunity. Dart is a really good example of this. Like the last picture taken before Dart impacted was everywhere, right? And it wasn't even that good of a picture because it was the last picture taken before

impacted and it wasn't complete and all that. But everyone was like, the story of this picture is worth putting here. So, yeah. People just like images more than. numbers. Oh yeah, there you go. You've been living that life. You want to see this rocket?

It's on the table. Let me get it. Oh, look at this. Man, getting some real time. I'm going to show you the back of it first, right? Look at that. Yeah. And then the nose cone is a little bit worse for the wear.

That's an impactor, the core stage, you know? Crush core. Crush core. Yeah. This thing, we worked with a company to, uh, to fly some of their cameras and we expected to get to like mock two and a half and we got to mock three. And the deceleration at mock three is a, you know, appreciably different from mock two and a half. Like it really just ramps up pretty hard.

And so as we were decelerating, we had these little camera foldout mechanisms that we're going to capture this awesome, almost third person apachee shot. And as you decelerate from mock three, you're like, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, G-loading goes just mega positive. And so the actuation mechanism that folded the cameras out, we think slightly accidentally folded the cameras out just a little bit enough to get it into the airstream. And so at that point, the camera gets sucked into the airstream. The vehicle like folds into a Z.

And then, you know, the flight is essentially over. Yeah. So awesome, awesome, rocket. We're going to do a video about it in a few weeks. And yeah, that's the story there. Is that the one that hit 61 Gs or something? I feel like I saw a graph. Yeah, it hit 61Gs going sideways.

Going sideways. Yeah, it was great. We're doing a- That's not how the seats are designed to help. Yeah. No, it's, it's, that was a really fun day. And that was like a really fun flight. And it's just this like, you know,

it's like this tiny little two-inch diameter rocket. It's, it didn't work. and I've never had a rocket not work and still been so, like, happy about it after. Because it was, I was trying to, like, push my own, you know, limits for, like, what I can build and stuff like that. And I got to spend the rest of the day just, like, combing through the desert in, like, a line formation looking for debris. It was great. And you loved it. I did.

That sounds like a joke, but, like, I genuinely. You loved it. It's like, yeah, that's part of the thing. Yeah. You seem legitimately happy about this, and I love that. Because it's just crazy. And, like, people love the failures way more than they love the successes on YouTube, too. So, like, your rocket explodes at Mach 3.

And, like, A, that's a great title. But B, you get to tell this story of, like, okay, and then the rest of the video is, like, how unbelievable it is that we found this, you know, XYZ small piece in the desert with, like, no idea of where anything else is, right? Yeah, this makes a lot of sense because I've been scrolling through your Twitter feed lately and being like, let me get a beat on like what the storyline is at the moment and trying to piece together the things that you're shooting videos for now. And you shot too many videos in a row the other day. I wonder how that went.

It was great. I've never, I've never, I filmed three talking segments for videos in a row and it took like four and a half hours of just like take after take after take. I don't know. I guess you guys like do your stuff live so you don't get this. But like when I do recorded stuff, I either get it, I either get the line on the first take or it takes like 12. And there's not really an in between. I don't know what happens. But if I can't get it on the first, it's way harder. Game over. Yeah. Yeah. The video stuff we do is live. The audio stuff, we don't have to worry about how our face looks. So it's a lot easier to do it on the second take rather than the 12.

I don't know. And it's, yeah, it's a lot. easier to just cut because cutting audio is a lot simpler than cutting video. Easier. Nobody notices. So the secret sauce is B-roll, right? Like the amount of times that B-roll saves me being able to just push in a little segment of me redoing a line is incredible. B-roll saves everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There are a lot of videos that don't do that, though. It's just like, wow. It's like Starlighting latency. You're really good at that. Yeah, there you go. Can we do some Joey B project management check-in here? A hundred percent, yeah. Okay, give me percent complete on cooking meat in a rocket.

Oh, my God, yeah. So we talked about the meat last time, right? Yeah, Meat Rocket was last time or the time before, forget which, but. Someone made a Joe Barnard out of context video and put it on Twitter recently. And in the video, there's a clip of me and Tim Dodd on off nominal. and I say something to the effect of like at some point you got to stick the meat in there and yeat it and Tim goes, that's what I always say.

But yeah, so the meat, the meat is like, it'll happen when it happens. So this weird thing, okay, it's going to require a little bit of background. This weird thing happened this winter. I had been planning on outsourcing the propellant for my space shot in like the next two years-ish, something like that. I had been planning on outsourcing the propellant making for that to some other company because I was like, there's no way I can do that.

And then I made a motor with my buddy and I was like, wait a minute, this isn't that bad. Like, I can hack this. And so now, like, all of the Meat Rocket stuff has changed because what I'll probably do is I'll build my own motor for it and we'll do it as like a test for a single stage of the space shot. So it's like it's been kicked down the road. We still have all the parts for it. I've got all the stock.

That doesn't sound like it's been kicked down the road. That sounds like it is a prime, a center line objective. Yeah, it's a critical path. It's critical path. You must cook a piece of meat before you go. Critical path meat. Everybody knows that. Yeah.

And it's, it actually like it does, it is like a two birds, one stone kind of thing because there's all of these scale up flights that we have to do before we do the space vehicle. So, you have to go to 40 kilometers, 60 kilometers. That's like, cook a piece of salmon.

Cook a piece of chicken. Yeah, right, right. It's like an FDA scale of meat. You got to let chickens make a house in the thrust chamber, right? You got to have chickens living in your engines for sure. Yeah, but Meat Rocket, if you need anyone to check out if you have chickens in your engines. I do have a two and a half year old that's great at it. Yeah, no, he's going anywhere and let you know if there's chickens in there.

So meat rocket's happening when it's happening. Most of the stuff right now is space shot. And then I'm trying really hard to finish the space shot, like finish the solid rocket motor videos that I've been making so that I can do a little bit of work on a starship model because I really want to try doing the belly flop. I think it will be way harder than I imagine. But I think it would be fun.

It would be. Are you going to blow this shit out of your launch? pad when you do that or? Yeah. Except I have to make it scale accurate. So I'll build the launch pad base out of just like sand with a little bit of Elmer's glue holding it. Yeah.

Cardboard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just make sure you're like this though, right? There it is. This color. Merchandising.

It's merchandise here, folks. Yeah, that's the, that's the, that's what's going on for the most part now. Sounds like things are going great. I'm just told that meat, Meat Rocket is critical path. I mean, I don't disagree. I think it's very important. There's a lot of scientific value in it.

I mean, I do think all of the new launch companies should do Meat Rocket on, like, their first launch just in case it doesn't go so well. And they can cook it on the way back in. Look, they've already got those, like, little pieces of metal on top of Falcon, right? Like, just between the metal and the carbon composite, just, like, toss a little bit of salami and, like, see what happens. Yeah. Hit us up, SpaceX. Yeah. Yeah, let me know if you want more good ideas.

I have blender open right now, Elon Mosul. Oh, man. Okay. All right. All right. What you got, Jake? You've been cooking anything over there? I've been hard to work on our Discord.

So writing lots of code, making bots that make it more fun to be there. So if you want to partake and support the show and get more meat rocket takes, Offnom.com slash Discord. Come on down. Helps us keep doing what we're doing. Jake unveiled a new season of the prediction bot today. Yeah, we're doing seasons now. So if you want to predict something,

I'm off to a great start. Nice little time windows and everyone can compete and we're going to celebrate at the end when people win and when Anthony loses. So it's going to be good. I love that. The Discord is great. Every now and then I pop into the Discord.

Jordan. It's like a real fun time. Yeah, yeah. That's an endorsement right there. Yeah, we have lots of fun. Sometimes it's very bad fun, but it's still fun. Sometimes, for instance, you're debating dictionary definitions of a term that I used and I conveyed on a podcast that I did, Jake. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes we get into a big debate about whether Anthony is very, very wrong or just normal amounts of wrong.

So it's lots of fun. Yeah. And no one. I haven't heard from, I've heard from three people about my gateway debate here. So check it out. Gateway back on the chopping block, folks. That's all I'm saying. We're not going to get into it, but I do think it's in a weird orbit.

That is even a more obscure take than my take. We'll have them back to talk about why it's a weird orbit. And no other things about Gateway. We will not debate anything but the orbit. Joe is back. Well, everybody, thanks for hanging out. Joe, you're the best. Thanks, everybody.

Thanks, Joe. I did find some of these links like Joe Barnard out of context so I will put that in the show notes for sure and we can enjoy. But otherwise, thanks for hanging out, y'all. We'll see you next week.

Bye. Bye. One, two, three, four, five.