Off-Nominal - 168 - Elon Munch (with Joe Barnard)

Episode Date: September 27, 2024

Jake and Anthony are joined by Joe Barnard to air their grievances with the FAA.TopicsOff-Nominal - YouTubeEpisode 168 - Elon Munch (with Joe Barnard) - YouTubeThe war of words between SpaceX and the FAA keeps escalating | Ars TechnicaAndrew Jones on X: “Drone footage from Deep Blue Aerospace's VTVL attempt today. Great view of the landing and explosion.”Deep Blue Aerospace hop test suffers anomaly moments before landing - SpaceNewsThe Interstellar Gateway on X: “B11 is finally coming home 🥹”Elon Musk on X: “Starship Super Heavy Booster Flight 4”SpaceX on X: “SpaceX engineers have spent years preparing and months testing for the booster catch attempt on Flight 5, with technicians pouring tens of thousands of hours into building the infrastructure to maximize our chances for success”Dr. Phil Metzger on X: “Amen. Space is too important. We need parts of the Earth available for launching rockets. Space helps, not hurts, the global environment and security of the public.”Dr. Phil Metzger on X (Thread)Joe Barnard 🚀 on X: “The FAA should let SpaceX launch whatever they want, whenever they want, and the only catch is they have to do it live on YouTube in 4K”Joe Barnard 🚀 on X: “Servos/cables potted - I’m so so excited for this project”Follow JoeBPS.space - YouTubeJoe Barnard (@joebarnard) / TwitterBPS.SpaceFollow Off-NominalSubscribe to the show! - Off-NominalSupport the show, join the DiscordOff-Nominal (@offnom) / TwitterOff-Nominal (@[e-mail]) - Spacey SpaceFollow JakeWeMartians Podcast - Follow Humanity's Journey to MarsWeMartians Podcast (@We_Martians) | TwitterJake Robins (@JakeOnOrbit) | TwitterJake Robins (@[e-mail]) - Spacey SpaceFollow AnthonyMain Engine Cut OffMain Engine Cut Off (@WeHaveMECO) | TwitterMain Engine Cut Off (@[e-mail]) - Spacey SpaceAnthony Colangelo (@acolangelo) | TwitterAnthony Colangelo (@[e-mail]) - jawns.club 🐘Off-Nominal MerchandiseOff-Nominal Logo TeeWeMartians Shop | MECO Shop

TLS and go for main engine, start. Oh, baby. We're live on a Thursday, Jake. How's it going, man? Live, live again. Live. After all this time. Should have brought a newspaper.

Yeah, with today's date, yeah. That's funny. What's up? What's up with you, man? How's life? You just had a baby. You had one. Just had a baby.

Named him Joe Barnard-Callangelo. That's what I named my baby. Wow. Oh, my gosh. I'm honored. Yeah. So that's good. You know, sleeps, the hard parts are still hard. All the other parts are really freaking easy the second time around.

So sleep's terrible. Feeding, you know, once he figures that out, then it gets easier. But, you know, all the other stuff is really easy to figure out. So I'm feeling all right. Good. You know, Eagles are playing well. I will say this. By the way, hi, Joe Barnard.

I guess that was my introduction for saying that you're on the show. Hi, congrats of the baby. For people that, I mean, everyone clicked on this if they have not. They got here by way of seeing your name once, so I don't even know why we introduced guests, to be honest. I will say this. So I've been having a lot of time to view things, which is unlike me. Normally, I'm not a big watcher of things. So what I decided was I should watch, I don't know why.

I, like, stumbled upon some piece of info on Wikipedia or something. I was like, I should watch the original Jacques Cousteau filmography. right like I've never watched his material but I should just as a person who grew up and still wants to be a marine biologist and somebody who loves nature documentaries I should check this out do you guys have you guys ever watched the original to Chakusto film you know I can't say I've had that thought but you know live your dream dude

it's in the queue right after a real real housewives of Hollywood just hold on let's just talk about Drake real quick my cue is like 30 TikToks and then I'll watch that You guys are not prepared for what's in this documentary. Okay. What are you drinking, Jake? What did you bring? I am just doing something real, real basic today.

Real basic bitch. Oh, the patito. Belgian. There it is. Petito. I'm basing it up as well with the yards. I haven't had a yards on this show in a while, Jake. Excellent.

But I am drinking out of my Snake River Brewing Co cup, which is nice. Nice, nice. I get nostalgic for the Wyoming region. Every time I have a Belgian, I always think of Eric Berger because I asked, we had, like, one of the first shows we had, I was like, what's your favorite kind of beer to me? And he's like, oh, Belgian. I was like, well, that's interesting. I've never met anyone who like Belgian more than any other beer. And he was like so offended. He's like, we just. Strange choice. He's a cycling fan. Yeah. Yeah. Really intense about it. Also, hey, shout out Eric Berger. Reentry. I'm reading it on or I'm listening to it on Audible. Nice. Yeah. Dude, friend of the pod. Friend of the pod. He was on last week, sort of.

It was a pre-recorded one. Wow, I didn't know. Clearly, I'm not a friend of the pod. What did you bring? Did you least bring something to drink over there? I'm double-fisting it today. I've got cold coffee and a diet Dr. Pepper. Wow.

What a mix. Holy shit. I'm really, I like, set up to hear about Jacques Cousteau's fucked up first film because it's bizarre. I like putting really fucked up stuff. in my body that like really confuses my stomach that you know like you know birthday cake and coffee i feel like would be a good one um just really really keep it keep you on your toes you like the the strange mixes like you eat a giant bowl of cereal and then drink the milk and then have like a coke right after it yeah yeah and not necessarily stuff that taste bad like it you know not like

orange juice and toothpaste or whatever but just just like just like really mix it up, you know? Somewhat discordant, yeah. I'm not sure why I have... Coffee and Diet Dr. Pepper. Like carbonated milk would be a good example of that, right? How's your sleep these days? It's awful.

No, it's fine. It's actually really good. But yeah, cheers. Cheers. All right, listen. Five minutes on Jacques Cousteau here, because I feel the need to just unveil what happens in this first, right? Because, like, you're all young.

We picture, like, this environmentalist guy who, like, cares about the world and all this. The first film on the topic of Calypso, which, by the way, was Starliner named Calypso? Was this one Calypso? Because the other one was Calypso. Did they rename this one to be Calypso? No, no, this was the Calypso captain. Because of the second time it got screwed up.

Wasn't it originally they were going to, the crude one was going to fly with Clipso? And then it was not going to... Well, it got flipped because they added a flight. And so they all got like the capsule they were using it went off by one, right? So this one was Calypso? I think so, yeah. Okay. Well.

Tell us in the chat. Which capsule was this? All right. So this documentary starts out. One of the first things that they do is two guys, dynamite a coral reef. That's like one of the first parts of this movie. They blow up a coral reef with dynamite to catalog all the fish by killing them with dynamite. To be able to count them.

Just dudes being guys. Then they are riding sea turtles like the whole time, both underwater and riding, like, sitting on top of tortoises, smoking, riding them around. the Galapagos Islands. Then there's this sequence where they are chasing a pack of sperm whales. They run one over. Like, bong, they hit it. And they are like,

wow, that was bizarre. And then they keep going. And a baby sperm whale happens to swim under the propeller. It gets like chopped up. So it's like a bloody horrific scene. And then they're like, well, we have to put the whale out of its misery. So they harpoon this baby sperm whale to death. And then

a feeding frenzy of sharks appears. because of this bloody mess that they've created in the red, I think it was in the Red Sea or Mediterranean or something. And they are watching all the sharks for a while. And then all of a sudden they just start murdering the sharks for no reason at all. They're like sharks are the least friendly thing to divers. We must. Like they could not contain themselves.

Yeah. All the sharks. And then what's the, and then they ride some more turtles at the end. But this sequence in the middle, I was like, what the hell am I watching? Somebody switch this out on YouTube. This is absolutely so I'm just let me know it's on YouTube I think 56 or something. Okay.

This is a pretty strong presentism case. This is giving like Mad Men vibes. You remember that one episode of Mad Men where they go and they have a picnic and then so like they're out with this nice park and they have, you know, the families and the picnic. There's all this like the stuff you have left over from a picnic like empty containers. And she just like gets up and just like flops the picnic thing and tosses all the garbage into the park. and then they just leave.

And it's like they just played off like it's completely normal and that's just what things are, you know? Just what you do. I know. I don't even step on a coral reef these days. You know? So that's been part of my viewing.

I was completely blown away. I was not. And it turns out like this is the thing that went around a blogosphere a couple years ago. But it literally does. So I put the link in the in the show notes for people that want to watch the silent world. by Jacques Cousteau. It's absolutely insane. I don't want to watch that. That's my pick on this show, Jake.

Marquis and he picks. All right, we got a serious topic, so, Jake. There's been a kerfuffle, I would say, that I've tuned in and out of over my sleep deprived days here of the FAA versus SpaceX, and I need you to fill me in with what in the hell is going on here. Well, I think if either one of us knew, it would be a different episode. but I don't know. There's like lots of levels to this.

Like I don't know. Go start. Is what I want to know. I'll start. As someone who has paid very little attention to it, but it's just terminally online, I feel like I have a unique perspective here. Because all I see is the reactions of people.

So what you're getting is like secondhand. Reaction to reaction. Right. Yeah. You're like standing next to the person smoking and you're like, I kind of am smoking. Just a. Yeah.

So as I understand it, SpaceX wants to launch and moves fast and breaks things. And then when things break and people get mad that they broke things, I think TLDR is like consequences of actions got hands. Nice. It's kind of how I understand it. I think it sounded like they forgot to fill out some paperwork that like specific to Texas, you have to like tell the governor if you're going to empty a wall.

bottle somewhere. That's that one, but then there's these other Falcon 9 ones, right? Yeah, the Falcon 9 ones, I don't really understand those again. That's very, like, I have not read any. They were like, hey, we're going to use a different control room. And they're like, yeah, we didn't approve that in time. But also, it's like a year and a half ago. Yeah. Yeah, it was like, yeah, this is, this is, because the fines came out now, right? That's why it's news, right? The FAA levied finds. I think there is a lot. A friend of mine used this term with me last night, There's a lot of sword rattling going on. There's a lot.

No one's pulling out their swords, but there are all, there's a lot of rattling. Jiggling them around. I think saber rattling is the term, though, Joey. Yeah, I think, no, that that was the right term. You Americanized the shit out of that. Whatever, dog.

USA. M-16 rattling going on here. Here's my thing about, I have two things about this. One is those Spanine things that they got fined like a couple hundred grand for. Like, that is so. That's like when a professional sports player does something bad in the game and they're like a thousand, here's a thousand dollars.

It's like whatever, man. Like that's a fee to that you can collect. But also it was a year and a half ago. So how many of these are still out there? Like did they do a bunch of other things like this since then? Or did all of it? Are we to assume that that one June was just like the FAA guy was really busy and got behind us a paperwork and SpaceX was like, you know, screw it. Let's fly.

Or is this about to be, here's what you did over the last 18 months and it is a bunch of money. That's my, that's a question I have about this. Yeah. So, I don't know. The second question, I don't know. It is really confusing. My second thing from being somebody again who, like, I couldn't watch all the congressional hearings, but I did read about all these situations where they are asking for what does

from the outside seem like minor changes to make. But knowing that that has to go through all internal FAA process that they weren't happy with how fast it went. I feel like in many of these cases, this is stuff that we've heard people allude to at like conference talks for years of like the FAA AST is serially underfunded and it's too slow and it's not keeping up with the industry. And we always hear that, but we don't actually ever hear or see examples of it. And I feel like this is, I would maybe quibble with the way SpaceX is going about this, like doing this all in public. But I think it might actually be healthy to have this done in

public so that we actually see examples of it. The best equivalents I have is like, it's an election year. So every politician in America will just say, we need comprehensive immigration reform, but no one actually ever says what they think the problem with the immigration system is or how they would fix it. They just keep saying,

I'm going to do comprehensive immigration reform. We've had this in the FAA for like three, four years, and now at least somebody's just putting lists out for like, this thing didn't go fast enough, this thing didn't go fast enough. It's weird that we had to get this approved. So I maybe appreciate that. You know what it feels like?

Tell me if you think this is off base. You know what it feels like is when your two friends were dating and then they break up and they're both posting like the moodiest songs they can on Spotify. I know I'm missing a lot of context here. I know you guys are fighting like crazy. Like the back channels have to be insane. And I think we're just mixing. We're missing a lot of context. I bet there's there's stuff that we don't know about. Oh, definitely, definitely. Yeah. And well, I mean, and the tricky part too is that there are like really, high-level issues that are being solved by this, or not being solved,

being attempted to being addressed by this, right? So we have an election year, like you said. And so there are going to be an entire swath of new representatives coming in. And this is one way for SpaceX to put this on the agenda, right? Because they're being, they're not just like the public part of this is very, very on purpose, right? They're not just like, oh, tweeting about it. they're writing a letter and then posting the letter.

They're mailing the letter to the media thing. Like, hey, by the way, media, did you see that we sent this letter out? Here's a copy of it. Let us know if you have any question. Like, they're very, very off. By the way, we posted this letter. Those are literally in our inboxes. And they're following up.

So, like, you know, that's obviously they're trying to put this on the agenda of the election. But then I was thinking the other day, we also have this Chevron thing, right? So the Chevron decision that the Supreme Court had was about saying that, you know, executive branch regulatory agencies are overreaching right now just broadly, right? They're able to define not just that something should be enforced, but how it should be enforced and what the penalty should be and then who's guilty, right? They're kind of doing judge jury executioner. That was the Chevron decision.

And I wonder if like there's some way that this can get up high enough now to whatever court would say like, wow, FAA, you actually don't have the authority to regulate this part of whatever. and if you want to find somebody, you need to put it into court and have a judge decide what that sentence is going to be and all that kind of stuff, right?

So I think they're angling for that too, right? So there's a lot of like layers to this. That's my thought. Yeah. Okay. I'm in for that. I'm a little confused though generally, right? Because some of these fines were so, from so far back that, number one,

if it takes 18 months to find SpaceX because they didn't get approval on documentation, Couldn't that have come out the week after? Like, why did that part? That is a little, that is both, yes, Joey, go ahead, please. Do you call me? Okay, thank you. Do we know, again, this is because I was getting secondhand news and not firsthand.

Do, did the fines really get, like, levied or posted now? Or were they immediate or, like, soon after, and we just learned about them now? Because I don't actually know. I think they were only published now. if they're only published now that is crazy that is like wild yeah i think it's concerning but in either explanation of it whether they sat on it for a year and a half and we're like now is the time where i'm going to roll this out or it took that long to get the paperwork through that's also alarming either either case is bad could be like a backlog situation right like it was just it was

at the bottom of the queue and they did other stuff first and this is what they got to it right yeah yeah also bad like feels i don't get i mean i guess if you go through i even you see speed through a toll booth, you'll get that shit mailed you in a week. You know, like, I feel like this is the equivalent of that. So. Yeah. Yeah. Except for that one place I drove in Canada that I told you about the one time, Jake, that

I never, I may be wanted. Yeah, I never got the bill for the driving on the Kings highway. You will be arrested in Niagara Falls. I think I might. Yeah. That's why I didn't come to that meetup you had for the eclipse. I'm wanted in Niagara for sure. I love this is totally off topic, but I love how petty some state government

are. I got a speeding. No, I got a toll ticket for I was like, I was like 30 cents short trying to get to Cape Canaveral and there's a toll. And this was, I don't know, this was like five, six years ago or something. And they like mailed me a letter. They like had someone like get the form ready, put it in a letter. They mailed the letter and they were like, you need to mail us the 30 cents. And it was like, this is crazy betty. Like the amount of stamps cost 33 cents. The amount that a government agency will spend to get a much smaller amount from you, like, should never be underestimated. So maybe the FAA had four salaried people working for the last year.

I was going to say, yeah, this will barely cover that. I just find, all right, so there's, I guess there's a bunch of parts of this, right? We should talk to some politicians and figure out, like, what actually happened behind the scenes in the FAA. But the other, the other layer to this is, is the Eric Berger's epilogue to re-entry of it all, which is like Elon's politicking at the moment and how that impacts SpaceX. Well, it's not a spoiler.

I haven't read the end of it. It's also the prolog. Oh, okay. It's both the pro and epilogue. But it's just about how Elon's being Elon these days. And we've got, I don't know where that Brazil thing ever wrapped up, but they like froze SpaceX's assets because of some X drama or whatever. SpaceX gave in.

That was the summary there. So yeah, okay. Everything's backed up. X is blocked in Brazil. It's fine. Oh, for real. Wow. I didn't know that.

But it's almost like I get my news from X. That's crazy. You would never know. Sorry. All right. Go ahead. No, just this is another case where, you know, SpaceX has been posting letters, but Elon's been tweeting like about the wrong head

of the FAA and then asking for the head of the FAA that is actually the heavy FDA to drop to like step up down. And he's being vocal about it in a lot. a really antagonistic way. And then, you know, we've talked to people, we had Tom Maraud on this show who used to work at the FAA AST and like he would tell us about how this stuff worked internally. And it was not at all how this stuff's being portrayed right now on the public level, which maybe, you know, fortifies your point, Joe, that this is like, we're getting the moody Instagram posts and there's a whole layer that we don't see.

And then, but why are we even getting those? I'm just confused by this whole thing. I really am. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm really like one thing I can't quite reconcile is like like me I have no doubt that the FAA moves slower than SpaceX. Like that's not really on the table. Like obviously they do right. Of course they do. It's the government agency. Like if you're going to regulate anything, there's just going to be a little bit of red tape. And that's just sort of the cost of doing business if you have regulation. And so like the theory has to be about like is the amount of slowness they have too slow. that's the question, right? Like, not that they are slow at all. I mean, although I'm sure Elon would love to just eliminate regulations, but like assuming we want this to be a regulated activity,

put that aside for a second, you have to kind of ask yourself, like, how slow is it too slow? I find it really funny. This is like the biggest irony to me is it like the company that is moving the absolute fastest who is like demonstrated, like no one has ever come close to a SpaceX cadence. The Falcon 9s are flying off the shelves, like, quite literally. And like for that company to be like, you know, it's just too hard to get anything done around here is kind of like really funny to me.

It's just like, I don't know, man. FBA's kept up with hundreds of Falcon 9 launches this, you know, this past year when five years ago they never would have thought like that that was even possible. Like, wasn't it only a few years ago we were talking about the range was like, they were, they had overhauled the entire department in the range to be like, we need to figure out a way to do a launch a week here. Like, otherwise, we're cooked. We're cooked if we can't figure that out.

It was like, that was like a big dry drive. That was one year of op-eds on space news, for sure. That was like, not that long ago, right? Not that long ago. And so it's just kind of funny. And it was the whole era where they went away from a single launch license to the operator license where you define like, here's how we're going to do things. And then they certify that and you can fly as many times you want under that rule.

And that was some of the difference here was that they like, they updated certain parts of, also, I think this is another case where, like, if they put all this shit in a Git repository, this would be easier because then the FA could just look at the change log and, like, the diffs rather than having to review all the paper. I feel like that's a valid thing to consider here. Microsoft Word has that built-in, Anthony. Gigantic markdown file and a Git-Diff would probably clean this up quite a bit. Track changes, baby, track changes.

Joe, do you have any complaints about the FAA that you would like to air publicly? Yes, I'm glad you asked. Because you're the closest thing to an operator that we have here. Oh, boy. Well, we're all cooked. That's true. Look at that back there. Look at all those things that the FAA would like to regulate if they got their way.

I mean, they do indeed regulate all these things. I just don't like loudly complain when I have to comply with those. Until now. I actually, I mean, it actually is like pretty, until I go above 150 kilometers, it's like very easy to stay within regulations. Once you're above 150, you've got to go through AST. That sucks. What a statement too, Jake.

Until I go above 150. Like, hell yeah. Call your shot, baby. You're doing it. You're doing it. You're getting there. All right. Let's start off strong.

So I did just tweet this at the start, but I think it's my most strongly held opinion, which is the FAA should let SpaceX launch whatever they want, whenever they want, and the only catch is they have to do it live on YouTube in 4K. It needs to be in writing You have to come back to YouTube It's got to be in 4K Yes No more of this ex bullshit Oh man Balloons

By the way That is if they Leveied that That is the moment that I will retweet Elon tweeting that this is a politically motivated action That is targeting him specifically that's the moment that I would jump the shark on that one.

Yeah, okay. All right. So we get that. This is more about planes than it is about rockets. I went down the plane rabbit hole a lot. Do you guys follow that guy, Soren? I don't remember his last name, but he does fake user interface tweets.

He like tweets fake user interfaces with ideas. Anyway, he had this idea that I think is great, which is that you should be able to pay a certain amount of money to eject someone out of your plane. So you're flying on a commercial flight across the U.S. You can pay a couple thousand dollars for a particularly bad passenger to just eject them out of the plane. And I think this segues into the other thing that I wrote down in my FAA complaints list is I want more doors to fall off of Boeing planes. It's funny and nobody died is what I wrote.

Oh my God. And I don't know if that's an FAA thing, but I feel like that could be involved. I do have one about planes as well when I was thinking about this, things that we would like to let the FAA know. I think, you know, FAA, as we know, is in charge of public safety. That's what they're concerned about. They don't care about you on a personal level, if you want to do something crazy,

but they care about it is public safety. I think it would behoove us all that any time that you are flying a spirit flight, you have to wear a T-shirt with the Spirit Airlines logo and colors so that everyone in the airport can identify which of the people are flying on Spirit Airlines. And you can decide how to approach that individual. That's a serious issue. Because if I'm at a point, sometimes I've flown them. You know, I used to fly them a lot to Florida.

But if I had to do it again, you might know the state of mind that I would be in, that I've worked my way through the system to get to this point where I'm on a Spirit Airlines flight. So I think other people should be alerted of the fact that that's where I'm at that time. I'm operating there. You don't even understand what kind of baggage line I stood in this morning to try to get this bag checked before I've ended up here at this La Colom coffee place. I think that's a thing. That's a serious concern of mine.

Can you bring me up to speed? I've never flown Spirit. I assume it to be like not a great airline. Is that correct? That's bad. It's bad. It's bad. It's bad.

It's really bad. Is it better or worse or the same as Allegiant? That's like my closest, uh, I think, uh, yeah, no, it's, you're in the ballpark, for sure. You're in the ballpark. Spirit is the one that wouldn't advertise like $9 flights. And what they didn't tell you was that you haven't actually paid for anything yet. You still have to pay for a seat and like the ability to board the plane and your location

in the boarding process and like whatever bag size you've brought. So it's like they're doing that tactic. They're getting you in the door and then you got to figure it out from there. Did I tell you one time I got an actual $7 flight? Yeah. It was like it. It was from Vancouver to Los Angeles. Yeah.

It didn't include taxes, but it was $7 fare and I paid whatever $80 in taxes and I flew to Los Angeles from Vancouver once. $80 in taxes? How does that work out? I don't know. Most taxes are, haven't you ever looked at your airline taxes on your fare breakdown? It's a lot.

Yeah. Apparently, they're not, they're not a percentage of your fare that you paid the airline. Fairly, they're fixed. No, no. I'm like never operating stuff in there. And yeah.

That's crazy. Especially look at one, if you go to Europe, they're way higher. Europe, like if you fly out of Europe, you're usually paying 300 bucks a ticket for taxes. Texas. Nobody, nobody. Yeah, call me Delta. Call me Elon Musk, but nobody does regulation like the EU. It's crazy.

Call me Elon Musk. Call me Elon Musk. Yeah. $7 airfare. That's a serious That's like near Ocean Gate level service that you're getting on $7. It's crazy. Yeah, I don't know what it was if it was like a mistake or something. I hope so. it.

It was one of those like, to take that or was it fine? No, it was Delta Airlines. It was fine. It was like a regular plane. Yeah. Went to Disneyland.

I called my office and said, can I have this week off? They're like, why. I'm like, I'm going to Disneyland tomorrow morning. I booked it already. It was $7.

So this is a thing. I love a last minute trip, man. I love a last minute trip. I feel like I cut off your list of FAA grievances. Is there anything that you ever been contacted by the FAA? What is the most likely thing that you? would do that would cause the FAA to reach out. I have been contacted by the FAA. It's not that interesting.

One time in 2016, I had just bought a drone and I was like so stoked about it. And, you know, you get something new and you like don't think that hard about what the consequences of getting that thing are. Anyway, long, it's a, it's a, it's a, not a very interesting story, but I got, um, I got, I got, I got clapped pretty good, uh, by the FAA because I flew. it very close to an airport without knowing there was an airport there. I was on a road trip from Boston to Nashville and I was just like, I'm going to get a bunch of footage and make a video about doing this trip or whatever. And yeah, they didn't like that. And so the cops rolled up on me real fast after I took off because the airport, you know, has like radar and stuff and can definitely

figure out where you are. Especially if you take off and lands in the same place. And then, you know, I'm like, you know, Johnny Goodboy America, the cops show up and I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry, officer. Here's every bit of information that you could possibly want about me. They're like, do you have a registration number? And like, this is way before you needed like the proper registration number for every UAV or whatever. This is in the wild west of your own days. Yeah. Yeah, this is the wild west.

I could have been like, no. Yeah, I could have been like, no, I don't have any of that. I'm just a guy. And it would have been fine. But I gave them like so much information. And so then the FAA called me like a week later and they were like, hey, we just want to make sure. I mean, it's not, I can't imagine this kind of thing happens now.

Because it was a much smaller problem with drones like 10 years ago. Having sold 100 to 1,000 to a thousand times the amount that have been sold by the time. Yeah, like the FAA definitely doesn't have the resources to do this now. But I got a call from some dude who was just like, hey, I just want to like read you some of the rules that you broke and, you know, give you slap on the wrist, basically. No wonder. They're calling you to let you know one by one. Yeah, that is someone who could have been stamping a SpaceX application instead. Wow, dude, concerning, looking into this.

What airport was it that you were trying to? Oh, it was somewhere in Connecticut, I think. Yeah, I don't know. So you barely left on your road trip by the time that you got into this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So did you fly the drone in any other point between you? Connecticut and Nashville. No, I got too scared.

I got too scared. I was like, 20 hours of driving. Yeah. I remember that as a weird time for, for drones because like they, it was the same in Canada. They had like that rule.

It's like within X, you know, kilometers of an airport just like, do not fly. And in Vancouver, it was like really annoying because the airport, like Vancouver is kind of like long horizontally on the map.

Like it's like a kind of a long flat city. And then the, the major airport's on one end of it. And it covered like half the city. And then there was another airport in the middle that covered the other half. And so, like, there wasn't a place in the entire valley where, like, you couldn't legally fly a drone in Metro Vancouver, basically what the law ended up being. Like, even in your backyard, you went up 10 feet, you broke the law. Like, it was that it was that bad.

And so I remember that being kind of a weird time. I think they fixed it now. There's like, you know, up to a certain altitude is like, you don't have to talk to anybody. But once you go over that, it's a different story. But it's funny. It's like within the clouds are fun. Yeah. The other thing I'll say is you can.

can't get away with it as easy as it might seem if you do fly within those zones. I'm not encouraging this, but DJI sells lots of products at this point. Yeah, no, no, no, DJI, if you have a DJI drone, like the FAA knows a lot more about where your drone is and what it's doing than you think it does. DJI sells a lot of like enterprise products that track their own products within certain spaces so like cities will buy these um like municipalities airports all that stuff will buy these things so that when you set up your dj i product and you give it registration info like that info can go over the air to whatever airspace controller you're violating or whatever so bonding or

whatever yeah yeah yeah so you it's more than a dsb it's like more um it's like a dj i specific thing anyway but how have the china hawks of our government not gotten up in arms about that that feels like a thing that they might want to be concerned about. You know, there was talk this spring about a full DJI ban, which is like never going to happen. A, the products are way too good and we don't have any competing stuff stateside. And B, like there are tons of industries, agriculture, film, there's tons of stuff that relies on those tools at this point.

Anyway, that's a whole separate conversation. Speaking of China and drones, I would like to break down this footage with you guys. That is some of the most epic footage. of a rocket test of all time. So maybe we, oh, that's loud. That's loud for my, I don't know if that was coming through, but we're going to go full screen of this sucker. Oh, turn it down, turn it down.

It's still too loud? Yeah, there we go. It was real bad. The music, though. Oh, so cool. How is that real footage? How is that not AI footage? That's legit.

Yeah, that's insane. It's just going to be a hard year for the old nominees, but, Holy shit, it's this going to be a bad year, a hard year for the optimneys. Yeah. Slowing it down when it hits the ground is like so cool, too. Such a pro move. It's like a Michael. On the next video.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to slam something to the ground, but got to do 4K, 10020 francs per second. I gotta be honest, this video has a Joey B vibe to it. Which, oh, oh, the rocket video? This rocket video, yeah. I think just generally. Yeah, because it doesn't quite work, but it's interesting footage, right?

It's shot well. It's really beautiful. It has that kind of thoughtfulness. in it. Something goes wrong, but in a comedic and fun way that you find uplifting as a member of humanity. Yeah, I think this is... Yeah. There's a lot. There's a lot here. You just need

me in the bottom right on green screen talking about blue tape and hot glue and like, that's it. Nailed that. I've been encouraged by these recent, like, grasshopper style tests. Because I felt like for a little while there was a lot of these tests going on from the various companies in China. but they all were using either

one was using like an airplane engine or something right it was using a completely not representative thrust profile for this they were just kind of I guess testing avionics or something but I do feel like in the last three months there's been a few tests that are actually the rocket or a thing like the rocket flying these kind of things so I'm pretty excited about this kind of shit that's happening now I feel like there's it's finally here

I feel like they're actually making the midway yeah yeah now what man you know when you think about that though like when we finally do watch like an orbital rocket launch from china and then come back and land that's going to be a bit of a moment i think like where kind of go hmm that happened and they're there now yeah a little spotnicky little sputniky little who who do you think's going to be most sputniked by that sputnik ranking for for that right i think congress congress oh Oh, and Robert Bigelow. I don't think they're going to do anything.

I think the ship is so big and the rudder is so tiny. I don't know. I just don't blow it. I'm a doomer. Yeah. I think it's going to be more posturing. I think it's going to be, you know, 20 tweets in a row about teachers need to be paid more and then no one's going to do anything.

It's going to be like, well, all right. Nothing ever happened. Comprehensive immigration reform. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We need to fix the problems. And it's like,

motherfucker, you are the one to do it and you aren't doing it. All right, so Joey's out on Congress. But give me like, you know, we've got the other parties that are potentially sputniked here are SpaceX, Blue Origin, all of the small launch companies

I would put in a block, like they would unionize in this sputniking. Like, who are the people that are feeling the... I don't know if they care, though. Like, like, why is that big deal to SpaceX that China can reuse rockets. It's tough because the markets do not overlap that much at all.

Hardly at all. There's a few companies that can fly on either one, but there's really not most of that. I think where it is where it does become interesting in the way that it is for SpaceX is that that's the moment that the economics on doing your own constellation change, right? Like SpaceX enabled Starlink in a lot of ways because of the fact that. that they're able to fly like they could fly today. And so if you're looking at which one of these companies

in China signs a deal with the best and most promising constellations happening in China, and is that the little flywheel that can create another constellation that could compete on a global scale with SpaceX? Right, right, right, right. That's the thing where they would get concerned about. On a launch side... The battle for satellite internet and Africa would begin, right?

Right. And even just the real estate aspect to SATCOM, right? Like, it's a real estate market at the end of the day. day, which, which, you know, which planes do you have? What inclinations are you at? What altitude are you at? That's the stuff that matters. Because even now you see SpaceX trying to come down, right? Like, they're direct to sell satellites. They're trying to get approved to operate lower than, than they currently have, because they need that to be able to provide the service that they want. So, yeah. All right. I'm buying it. I don't know. I'm buying that. I don't buy that.

I don't buy that it's a big problem for SpaceX. But I do like, I think the non-S SpaceX folks in the U.S. right now, you got to be, I feel like I said this like six years ago, but like if you aren't making orbit in like the next year or two, like, what are we doing here? Your lunch is actively getting eaten by Elon Musk. I don't know what to tell you. came and stolen your lunch personally and is munching on it. Yeah, like relativity wants to make like a Falcon 9 competitor. And it's like, dog, you are very late to this game. Yeah.

You know? But what if you bought a bunch of farings that are Aryan six farings and basically made an Aryan six and then printed a part or two and put it on the Aryan six? Would that do it? Listen, you're allowed to make an Aryan six much like my FAA take. you're allowed to make an Arian 6 so long as you do a better job than Arian space at webcasts. They've got it a lot better in the last two years. They're still not good. Which is saying something.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're like halfway through the second stage burn and they're like, let's run an ad. Man, I would love to put you in charge the FAA. This would be great. Yeah, we can't. This launch last 10, 15 minutes, but we like can't wait that long.

We're going to run some ads in this. This is reminding me when we did, um, Anthony, remember when we did the perseverance landing and we were like mapping out the timeline of like all the events and stuff. And we realized that there was like there was no information we would have during the seven minutes of terror. Remember that? So it's like it hits Anthony interface and it's like we just we get no telemetry. We get nothing for seven minutes, right? And I was like, so what are we going to do on a live stream for seven minutes?

And I was like, well, I'll just like pivot over. Like we had Tonya with us. We'll talk about Tonya's book for a little bit. And then we'll go back to it. right? And it, like, it worked great because, like, we didn't miss anything. And then we came back and people were furious that we had stopped talking. They're like, it's entering right now. Why are you talking about this? Like, I got, like, so many angry emails. I was like, there was literally nothing I could tell you. Like, there was zero information. NASA's like, yeah, NASA's like, me went quiet. Yeah. Yeah. So that's front of making up, they're running the ad now. my brain got going down the rabbit hole of like we know a handful of people that could help us figure out how to get Joe to be in charge of the FAA. Oh, I don't want that.

Mapable route that we have from here to there. And you would just levy all of the commands of like where everyone must stream and how. Yeah, if I can be the chief force companies to stream on certain platforms officer at the FAA, I'll take that job. I won't do anything else for the organization. Let's take a quick thing about what's happening. That job sucks now. Work of the FDA is sucks now. Used to be fine.

Now you're just like public enemy number one for the biggest Twitter account in the world. Like, no, thanks. At the same time as there's like major shit going down in the world of airlines and like airliners. Not like the plane side is chill at the moment. That's the other problem. Yeah. That's the funniest part of that too. It's like, oh, man.

Now I'm thinking about that. It's like, we need the FAA to get their shit together at the rockets. It's like, you know what? We actually have really important matters that we're dealing with right now. Like, I don't know if you've heard about this, but commercial aviation is in the shithole in this country. And we are actually working on that. The five alarm fire over there. And you're like, it'll be curious.

I'm interested to see what this shakes out because, yeah, there's, I don't know, it feels the Falcon 9s. stuff feels a little bit like the dodge ball that you lob up in the air so that everybody looks at that while you like bean them in the face with something else that feels the falcon nine shit feels like that and the like bocacchika whatever's going on there feels like the other ball you know yeah 100% like what's gonna yeah not an ad by the way real quick not an ad there's this new like prediction market that it was approved in the u.s that's like i heard advertise another podcast called Cal she, K-A-L-S-H-I. Not an ad, but I made...

You don't happen to have a 20% off-code, do you? I don't, but I've made tens of dollars because they have a prediction market for when the next Starlink or Starship launches. And I was like, oh, shit. Like, I'll throw 10 bucks in this and see what happens. And it turns out if you're one of us, you could make however much money you want to, however much you want to put in, you can make like multiples of that on this prediction market by betting on the next Starship launch.

Oh, that's awesome. Dude, I need to get some insider info. Let's go. I mean, the insider info is literally us talking, right? Like, all the people that are using this app are like, Starship will launch. Like next week, there's like a comment thread on these prediction markets. So you can just see in, you know, August, these people are like,

I mean, Elon says it's like ready to roll. And I'm like, these motherfuckers are like going to lose all their money. Are there really people who will bet on it being within October or something? Yes, that's my point. Oh, you could make crazy money on. He makes so much money off of the positivity. Yeah. Just by being on.

and knowing how this is going to go, you can make a bunch of money on this. This is not an ad. They should sponsor this show. This is a great opportunity to develop a gambling addiction. I mean, sorry if I did for anyone out there, but this is going to be great.

I'm going to have a good couple of days here. Point being, all right, my main question of getting to there, by the way, I made tens of dollars on Kalshi. I swear this is not an end. But all the, what did you call it earlier, the sword rattling that was going on? Do you think...

Saber rattling. You made fun of me when I said sword. R.E. Sabre with an RET rattling. Do you think any of that is going to matter? Do you think that Starship will be able to launch before November? Like, did this kick anyone into gear? I don't think it launches before November.

I don't know. They're pulling off, you know, it looks like they're pulling off the stabilizing pins in the mount, the boosters on the mount. I don't really keep that close of a track. Is the ship stacked on it? Sometimes. I feel like it's it sometimes is that they take a pick and then they do some other shit and then they take a pick and then the guys sit on the chopstick arms and they take a picture.

I mean, I just like, I don't think we have the context for what's actually going on here. I can't tell if they like really hate each other and have no back channels because I don't think that's the case. I don't think so either. But it is like a lot of public posturing. It feels a little bit... You're tiptoeing down an alley here, I like. I like the...

They're backchanneling and they're in cahoots to get more funding for the FAA AST. But you remember when they were... You didn't even know it. Yeah, no, I don't know wherever I'm heading like 90% of the time. But I... Do you remember, they posted a lot this summer about Sonic Booms, right? They are clearly very concerned about the... you know, the air burst they're going to have with, uh, with, with, with, with,

with super heavy coming back. Um, and it like, you know, by the second or third time they posted a video or tweet exclusively about sonic booms, you're like, something is happening here that I don't know about, right? Like someone is clearly upset and giving SpaceX a warning like, hey, we're going to regulate the shit out of you if you make a huge sonic boom or whatever. Um, so I don't know. I don't have a real prediction. I don't think launches in October, but there's a lot of posturing. There's a lot of saber rattling with an RE. So maybe that works, but I kind of don't think it will. We'll see. I don't know, man. I build rockets on YouTube. Again, it's the closest to any of the shit that we're talking about,

you know. Yeah. Building rockets on YouTube is two things, one more than what we do. So, yeah, we barely do YouTube. What do you guys think? Do you think, do you think, do you think any of this works? Do you think any of it is already effective? I mean, what are we doing here? Yeah, I think I think it's, I think it's mostly, it's posturing makes it sound like it's frivolous, but I think like they're, they're taking an opportunity where they have the, you know, Chevron's open. There's an election. Like, there's a bit of a power vacuum here in terms of how can they, can they make change to the way things operate and they're going for it. That's, that's the best thing I can interpret is that they're, they're making a move. Maybe it doesn't work.

but if it does, it's going to be good, right? And so that's as best as I can, that's as charitably and logically as I can put it. You strip away all the nonsense tweets and the, all that garbage. Like, that seems to be the most straightforward thing that I can think of it. You have a more expansive view of like what their intended goal is than I would attempt, I think. Like, you're in on this whole Chevron thing. I don't know. That's because I feel like, did you, didn't you get your mind change about Chevron in the discord,

like actively? Yeah. So that's the whole thing. if you're in there, you can look that up. I don't know, the Falcon 9 ones, there are two battles, right? There's the whole, like, Texas, whatever, the TCEQ or whatever that's discharging water. I don't think there are two battles, though, I think, I mean, they're two incidents. I think the overarching battle is the same thing, right?

And maybe the point, part of it, I mean, it's because, like, Elon's been on this, like, crusade of, like, getting everything into Texas, so I don't have to follow anybody's rules. Like, that's not, that is not a new thing. It has been a very documented change that all of its companies have been doing for years, right? And so, like, I just, I don't see how. So why is he getting shit from the Texas, whatever? What's the tech? What is this thing?

The TCEQ, Texas, I assume that's clean energy, something. I don't know. The Texas Department of where do you dump water out? Yeah, I don't know, man. I think that seems to be circumstantial. Like, I think mostly they're going after the EPA and the, and the FAA for, consulting the EPA, I guess. Right, right.

That seems to be where it is. I guess where I'm going with the Falcon 9 ones is that those feel like the tiny knives that have been driving SpaceX nuts as they operate Falcon 9 of like, I just wanted to use a different office and I had to get this whole thing run through

the FAA because of the way this these licenses work and that's really fucking annoying. So these are two good examples of things that were really annoying, but are when you explain it to the public it's like, I mean, what is the line between things you have to tell the FAA about and things you don't have to tell the FAA about?

Like, there's probably changes, code changes in the spacecraft that have bigger effects than the com stack that they use or whatever, that they don't need to run by the FAA because of the way that the laws are written. I don't know that to be a fact. It just feels like something that might be true. So maybe this is the case where,

I'm sure SpaceX has a list of like things that they might get fined by the FAA for that are good examples to make in public of, like, look how annoying this was for us. And that's what those Falcon 9 things feel like to me. Whereas the Boca Chica one, I don't necessarily buy all, like, the SpaceX doubters that are out there that were, you know, oh, they actually needed more approval for this, like, not a deluge system or whatever.

What is that the whole environment? So if it's a deluge system, they needed more approvals than if it was a flame diverter. I don't know. I don't know. There's that, that's that crew that you could tap into on the, internet that are like, this is a major incident and will require an EIS, the environmental impact statement. Yeah. Which I still kind of think they should have done. Like going from a Falcon 9 to starship, I don't feel like it's crazy to say, man, maybe we should have done, you should have done

more work than like, that you did. I can't think of a good example. But like, as a teenager, like, you know, sometimes you like do dumb stuff and then you like get, you get, you get, you get it in your head that somehow the consequences of your actions are like completely unfair, right? And that's kind of what it feels like. It, you know, SpaceX has tons of people who should be aware of like the regulations and the place that they're operating. And so if they like miss something really obvious like that, I don't, I don't know that they get to be like, this is crazy unfair that we like forgot to do this thing. And now we're getting in trouble for. it. I don't know. I think everyone's bad at their job. That's what I think. I think everyone's

bad at their job. The FAA doesn't have enough people and they're regulating too much and SpaceX is like moving too fast and everyone needs to like go touch grass or something. Yeah. A little bit. The last, you can tell that I'm generally confused by this situation, but I do feel like the recent, there was a recent tweet by Dr. Phil Metzger that I very much agreed with and I'm scrolling to try to find it, but I will summarize it for you, which is like, I agree with all this stuff that SpaceX is getting criticized for. And I also do think there are certain parts of Earth that we should use for launching rockets because there aren't that many of them left.

And I do feel like that. Like, there's very few places on Earth that we can make rockets launch out of. And it does feel like the time in our history where we should say, like, yeah, we probably should pick a couple, you know, that are like, this is the rockets spot. Cording them off and be like, this is reserved for rockets. Yeah. Yeah. Like, didn't they, I mean, they put headphones on seals and played Sonic Booms and like, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm pretty sure, unironically, it made them mate more. Like, it, I think the result, I'm so serious, I think the result of the study was that they were like slightly more in by the Sonic Booms. I mean, I am, you know, I have two babies now. Yeah. I agree with you. The correlation causation of Falcon 9 flight rate and amount of kids Anthony has is like 100% accurate. I agree with you though.

It's a hard take. That's not a take you can put on Twitter because there's no nuance, right? But like that I kind of agree with you that like, you know, we designate areas to dump trash. We designate areas to like put oil refineries. you know like I can't you can't put an oil refinery in a suburban neighborhood because zoning laws and like for the same reason we should we should probably like have some zoning laws and just be like you know what the wildlife is going to have a tough time here right uh but we have got the cool like the three coolest wildlife spots i've been to like yeah the merri island refuge is awesome there's manatees there's aligators there's sweet birds like they French Guiana is like a crazy jungle that can barely keep its hands off this rocket launch facility.

Wallops Island is really nice and serene. Like eventually, it is actually kind of chill. Now, maybe the water thing, right? I don't know. I'm not a water expert. I'm not a hydrolysis or whatever would be the terminology for that. Not a big water guy. Not a big water guy.

I don't know. Maybe there is something specific about Boca Chica's water situation. But I don't know, man. like the alternative is the reason that these Chinese companies are developing landable rockets, which is that rocket stages fall down in villages and near tractors if you're a Soyuz. So yeah, zoning for space launches feels like a good thing, especially when, and part of Phil's tweet, I'll find it and put in the show notes, was that space is one of the few things in humanity that is like legit a net benefit for the environment over the long term.

because you're actually able to do research and able to understand impacts of certain things. And so there's this weird balance to it, but yeah, if we made all of the coastline inaccessible, then we'd either have to get comfortable with rockets flying over our heads or what, like really invest in sea launch, I guess. So back to Tom Marotta. Maybe he would like that.

Shout out Tom Marotta. Yeah. Baseport company. That is one of the second points, right? No regulations. Well, need to eventually. In international waters. Yeah, it's a good point.

Well, obviously need to eventually. But for now, we'd still have some parts of land that are good. I don't know if Kenya's roped off the Kenya spaceport like is in Andy Weir's books, but they should. Speaking of boats, y'all mind if I do a little subject change? Yes, please. Are you aware of what was pulled out of the water? No, no, no, no, we're not talking about that. You had your five minutes.

Got it. Are you aware of what was pulled out of the Gulf of Mexico recently? Yes. We did see that, yes. Why are they doing this? Okay, here is what happened as I understand it. Again, mostly secondhand news. So take it with a grain of salt.

Mostly read a quote tweet of a guy posting a YouTube video that was a reaction video to an Elon must tweet. And all of that happened within a TikTok with subway surfers below it. Okay. So it seems like a bunch of people were able to pretty accurately figure out where booster 11 splashed down. And it happened in like fairly shallow water, like 200 feet. And they were able to figure out where it landed. And then like it sounded like there was some talk. I'm only aware of what was going on on Twitter. I have to imagine there are like other actors in this too.

And it sounded like maybe people were going to go try to take a look. Whatever take a look means for multiple definitions of take a look. And so I think SpaceX recovered as much of the booster or like spicy bits of the booster as they could. not because they actually care that much about analyzing what's there, but to get rid of it. So that it is not easy to take a look. All right. I feel like I caught on this story by the time that the people were tracking SpaceX,

pulling up the booster, but you're telling me there was a prologue in which people were tracking the spot of the booster and it scared SpaceX into doing it. Yes. People were tracking. And again, this is my understanding. It doesn't mean this is how it happened. This is whatever. Secondhand news was subway surface below it.

And so people were like, we think the booster's here and like publicly talking about it. And SpaceX, I think was like, oh shit, they could go get it. And then a version of that kind of happened. I don't want to like get too into this because I don't want to make people mad. But like there is some crazy behavior on Twitter. There is some like insane behavior. on Twitter. This is not controversial so far.

What? Yeah. So SpaceX got a boat with a crane on it to go like fishing ostensibly and, you know, fishing in a specific spot. And a group of people, it seems like, chartered a boat to go follow that boat. And I don't know about you, but if I were going fishing in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico and a boat was like, stalking me, I'd be really concerned about that. I'd, I'd like start to think about self-defense in certain ways. And that's crazy behavior. Like, it's one thing for, it's one thing for organizations

to, like, set up some cameras that, like, point at Starbase. That seems cool, right? That's public land, largely. I mean, it's whatever. But, and then if, if Starbase wants to, like, put up fences because there's stuff they don't want to show. That's totally fine. But to like stock a boat out into the Gulf of Mexico is insane. That is crazy. And like the idea that these people are shocked when the boat sends a drone out and is like back the fuck off, that's crazy. Anyway, sorry, that's my rant. I don't want to make people mad. I just, it blows my mind that this at any point seemed like a good idea. Yeah. Yeah, here we go. You're convincing me that this was peak

peak like Boca Chica lifestyle you know I don't know what term to apply to this but there's definitely like... We refer to them before as Boca people, yeah. I think that's the full term that could be used. Yeah.

Yeah. Like it's one thing to be like I'm doing investigative journalism and it's another thing to be like I'm posted outside your house with a 400 millimeter lens, right? Like... It'd be funny if Jeff Bezos contracted the same crew

that pulled out the whole Apollo 11 engines to get Booster 11 though. That would be awesome. And he'd just be like, I'm just really into 11s. You know, my thing is 11s. As chief PR officer of the FAA, I support this. Yeah, yeah. He's just like, you know, super into 11th.

Wouldn't that be such a power move if Bezos had gone to get it and just like, yeah, I recovered booster 11 and then donated it to some museum and like in Seattle. Museum or whatever. It's like hanging in the Amazon headquarters or something. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, anyway, everyone needs to go touch grass is the moral of the story. God, yes.

Joe, what have you been working on? What should people check out if they're not up on your hijinks? What FAA regulations have you violated recently? I'm too embarrassed to say what it is. Okay. I need to give you some background. Is it something to do with these fins that you've been tweeting? Yeah.

Jake, how many times have I been on this show? I haven't counted, but I want to say like five, six, something like that. Five sounds, five sounds right. I would say, I think the first time I was on was around this time, 2021, something like that. And during that episode, I'm pretty sure I talk about wanting to do the meat rocket pretty soon. I think I probably said something within like two months maybe, maybe three. And then, you know, three months go by, six months go by, eight months go by and like, oh, let's do another podcast, right? And then I talk about it again and I'm like meat rocket.

It's coming up. We're going to do it. We talk about, you talk about this place and I think it was Philly that has like a really good salami sandwich or something and you wanted to suggest that I get the meat from there. And it's like all funny and goofy. And I'm like, yeah, it's coming up soon. It's 2024. It is actually happening now. Goddain FAA has been getting in the way of this paperwork that he had to file to get the meat clear for.

The woke liberal media preventing me from doing my own projects. But the, so it is actually happening. FDA. It is actually happening by the end of the year. If it doesn't happen by the end of the year, it's not. Like, I, I, you know, you can't keep pushing enough. You got to do it before New Glenn. Come on, baby.

Yeah. Meat Rocket versus New Glenn. That's the race I'm tracking. Actually, I think there is some NDB predictions in our discord about about reaching about meat rocket or reaching orbit compared to other rockets, something like that. Orbit. There's some Joey B predictions in there. Space. On who gets to space first, me versus ARCA.

And I think I win that one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, so I actually think Meat Rocket versus New Glenn is a pretty, that's a pretty even race right now. Because it looks like November for me. But anyway, that's what the Finns are for. And Meat Rocket is like this great project because it's a shitpost, you know, you cook meat by going fast, but it's also really technically challenging. There's like lots of FIA and CFD.

There's, you know, it's got a guidance system. It goes to Mach 3. So it's a challenging project. I don't want to talk about it too much because what will inevitably happen. is 12 months down the road, you'll be like, hey, you want to come on the pot again? And I'll be like, I'll dread it. Not because I don't like this, but because I can't, I can't bear to answer that I'm still doing the same project. Love it.

I love it. Yeah. Well, we just do it. That's what's up. It's good shit. Thanks for hanging out with us. Thanks for having me on. We got, next week, it's just me and you, right?

We're just doing a little news catcher. I think so. Yeah. Yeah, a little reconciliation. When we're apart, our brains drift and we need to reconcile new knowledge additions. We have to go in and out like this and make sure that we... Just like that. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

All right, y'all. Thanks for hanging out. We'll see you soon. Thanks, everybody. Bye. Bye.