Off-Nominal - 20 - People Doin’ It, Right?

Episode Date: June 18, 2019

Chris Gebhardt of NASASpaceflight joins Jake and Anthony to talk about space media in modern pop culture, the way its made and received, and what stands the test of time. Upcoming meetup! Hang out with Jake and other fellow Anomalies in Kent, WA on June 29! Details at events.offnominal.space. Drinks Orion 1-1 - Smugglers’ Trail Caskworks - Untappd The legendary triple distilled Irish whiskey - Tullamore DEW Sunshine Pils - Tröegs Independent Brewing - Untappd Topics & Picks For All Mankind — Official First Look Trailer | Apple TV+ - YouTube The Expanse (TV Series 2015– ) - IMDb Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (TV Series 1993–1999) - IMDb Battlestar Galactica (TV Series 2004–2009) - IMDb Follow Chris NASASpaceFlight.com Chris G - NSF (@ChrisG_NSF) | Twitter Follow Jake WeMartians Podcast - Follow Humanity's Journey to Mars WeMartians Podcast (@We_Martians) | Twitter Jake Robins (@JakeOnOrbit) | Twitter Follow Anthony Main Engine Cut Off Main Engine Cut Off (@WeHaveMECO) | Twitter Anthony Colangelo (@acolangelo) | Twitter Off-Nominal Merchandise Off-Nominal Logo Tee Team CAESAR Tee Team Dragonfly Tee WeMartians Shop | MECO Shop

TLS and go for main engine, start. Welcome to space. Hello, Jake. Welcome to early June, mid-June. It is the start. I'm going to officially declare this the start of the long, hot drama summer, because we are right in the thick of it, and I've been thinking about it. But, I will say, we've been very topical lately on Off-Nominal,

which was not the point of Off-Nominal when we started it. So I'm excited to get back to our roots. If you're on top-comable, topic, wouldn't that technically be off-nominal for an off-nominal podcast? Oh, shit. You're right. No. All right.

Loop it back around. We've got to start this again. Chris Gabehart, welcome to the show. Thanks for completely invalidating the show on your first sentence here. I'm very excited to have you here. I try. How you guys doing? I'm pretty good.

Everybody's apparently bewildered to be on this. I'm great. The sun's out. I got, so there's, it's probably like dark for you guys or whatever, but I've got this this West Coast sunrise in my window here. It's real bright if you can see my video and it's great. Shorts are on. I love summer. I love it. He's got his shelves built too, Chris. This used to be a barren room just mere months ago and now he's got shells built. He's got a Saturn 5 on the wall. Look at that. Look, you're coming up in the world.

Yeah, well, when you said this was going to be the long, hot drama summer. I'm with you on the hot already in Florida where it's well into the 90s and muggy and just all around awful this time of the year. Right for a rocket launch. I'll tell you that though. Are you going to be there next week? Yeah. Well, oh good, good, good, good, good. Where are you watching from? No, are you going to be there? I'm not going to be there. I'm going to be there. I'm going to be there. I thought you said you were going to be there. Oh, yes. No, I'll be there. Standing at the press site at Kennedy watching that sucker go. right to the press site again hugging people

exactly it's a tradition for the having no I I can't wait to see what the just how bright this thing is at night I mean I it's blinding in the daytime so I just I can't imagine

it's been a while since we've seen a really really bright night launch that's for sure what do we got what are we got Jake you're right everything's okay yeah man okay I feel great I'm a little worried about you So for everyone who's

Who wasn't in the pre-show We are we are in the middle of Diagnosing my my condition I don't know what's going on I have a pain right about where my appendix is supposed to be So we'll see how that goes I'll take this episode You've got a flight surgeon watch out on him

He's already been He's like he knows 100% accuracy What he has you know Yeah he's just teasing And he's making that even better tonight by drinking. What are you drinking? So I found a space-themed beer finally again. It's been a while since I actually had one that was properly space-themed. I guess it kind of is. It's like it's got a space name. So this is

Orion 1-1. It's from a brewery here in Vancouver called Craft Collective Beer Works. It's a poppy seed IPA. And I'll read this. It's got a little story behind us. I'll read it here. So it says, the Alpha Company Red Devils of the First Battalion were the tip of the spear for Task Force Orion, which was the first of the Canadian troops to fight in Kandahar, Afghanistan in 06. And there was a guy at the brewery, Trevor, shout out to Trevor, aka Gordo, which is just like the most Canadian nickname ever.

It totally is. I could name at least three famous Canadians. name that. And my name immediately went to Ranger Gordon from the Red Root Show. And like Canada's unofficial national band, the tragically hip literally has two Gordons in it. So anyway, so Gordo was in Task Force, Ryan, and he came back and started a foundation called Honor House,

which supports Canadian Forces Veterans and Emergency Services personnel. So look at this. This beer's got a story. Horizon Task Force. Regular-sized beer, not a Jake-sized. No, this is a. Jake sized. Oh, it is Jake sized. I couldn't tell because you're so large that it looks regular

sized. It did there for a minute. He's wearing a NASA shirt too, just to call him out on this whole pro-Canada push. Well, hey, that's okay. When the NASA administrator visited the SpaceX West Coast launch pad, they showed him a Canadian mission getting ready to launch. Canadian missions on American rockets from American soil.

That's right, yeah. I think I got all the catchphrases in there. I got Gordo's beer in this Oilers Cup, and yeah, it's pretty good. Good? I like it. It's hard to go wrong with an IPA for me, so. I'm going a non-beer route. I am in a whiskey mood, so I have a-telmer-Doo, Irish whiskey.

It does not have the story that Jake just read us. Established in 1829, became home to a man of legendary status, Daniel Williams. affected a whiskey of exceptional quality character and smoothness that was good enough to bear his initials due. It's all I got. What was his actually name? Did it say? What was his name?

Do, do or a initial? Yeah, Daniel E. Williams. Oh. Do. What do you think the E stands for? Ooh, I think it's a, I think it's to throw us off and it doesn't actually stand for anything. He just needed an initial. I think it's Elijah

I don't know what's happening anymore I feel like I tuned out for one second and I totally lost the plot I was checking this setting and I'm so confused now I'm drinking of sunshine pills because it's summer and this is my favorite summer beer it's from trogues I love it

I probably have drank it on here before no story, just delicious if we filtered out every show where you drank either yards or trogues how many would be left two or three should I push it a little more I guess I should

I think you should either switch it up or get us a sponsorship because yeah I should do one of the two yeah victory covers the rest yeah victory you know I got a lot of good material to work with I respect that

speaking of material to work with how's that for segue so I mentioned we were we've been too topical lately we've been talking about political drama Chris we've been talking about. Like, I don't even remember what we've been talking about lately, but it feels like mostly political drama.

Jim Reinstein fan. Thank you for inviting me on to not talk about that. Yeah, I'm done with it for a little while because things seem kind of like chilled out for at least a little bit of time. So we saw recently when my worlds collide at Apple's developer conference, we got a preview of For All Mankind,

which is their show coming up in, I don't even know if the launch is officially set, but sometime in the fall, I think. and so we were talking about this preview. If you haven't seen it, pause podcast and go watch the trailer because it was pretty awesome if you ask me. Definitely. And Jake brought up in the Discord.

We were discussing it a little bit and he brought up, you can probably explain your feelings on this better than I can, but you were feeling a little weird about Apollo nostalgia. Is that appropriate to say? Yeah, I saw the trailer and I was like, so I mentioned the Discord that I was like 90% really excited to watch the show and then 10% like, oh, great, more reinforcement for super unproductive Apollo nostalgia. And I guess that spurred a little bit of a discussion. I don't know.

Yeah, and I was just like, oh, you know, it would be kind of fun to talk about not just like historical documentaries, but sci-fi shows and space in general in pop culture and how it's productive or not or its effect on society or whatever we want to take there. But I do feel like not just about like which ones were cool plots and which ones had cool effects, but like they're the way that they set themselves in the wider culture and I felt like when we were talking about that I was like well Chris is always tweeting about all sorts of this kind of stuff you're so into this kind of veins so I feel like you're the perfect person to have on for this. That too and I was I was kind of laughing a little bit today as I was as I was thinking through a couple of things for this because you you probably picked a great person to have on here because my thesis in college was all about science fiction. and the depiction of religion in pre and post 9-11 society. Holy so, yeah. So much heavier than I thought it was going to.

Yes, yes. It took a turn. Wow. All right, well, that's topical. Yes, yes. Yeah, but this trailer, I guess I kind of know what you mean, Jake, because when I started watching this trailer, you know, there were a few other worlds collide moment for me watching.

it because it's it's ron moore's new series um and today of all days to record this because here's the nerd in me is captain puccar day which comes from an episode of star trick the next generation that ronald d more wrote yes so yes that was the galaxy brain meme of this podcast right but but i understand what you mean jake because like when i when i started watching the trailer like and and obviously this is how it was designed it you know, I was kind of like, okay, like it's, so it's, it's, it's the moon landing. It's, you know, it's Walter Cronkai walking us through what's happening and here comes the person. And I did kind of feel that sense of like, okay, like, why are we?

Another one. Like, I don't, I don't get it, right? Like, what's, what's the hook? What's the draw? And then it's a Soviet stepping foot onto the moon. And, It postulates this, the theory, of course, that what would the United States' reaction have been if, like, everything leading up to it in the space race, the Soviets had won and the N1 rocket had worked. And I don't know the, I don't know the overall plot. Maybe the Saturn didn't. Maybe it took a little bit longer to recover from Apollo 1. but it opened up this really interesting question that I think is why science fiction works so well when it does

is it postulates either that alternate thing to get people to think about what our reactions would have been would we would we hail the moon landing as a great technical achievement if it wasn't us that did it and yeah I'm excited for it I honestly, when it took that turn in the preview, I was like, oh, I'm here for this. That's fun that you had that moment in the preview, because I had heard that that was the stick of it,

just because I'm, you know, Apple by day. So I'm following all these rumors, and that's been, like, wrapped up in a lot of the stuff that was talked about about it. So I was like, oh, okay, let's see how they play it in the preview. But that's even more fun that it was a moment of, oh, wow, that's like, that's the thing, you know. And it looked amazing. It did. They spent a lot of money on this thing. They did.

They did. And, you know, it's kind of interesting. And, I mean, Anthony, I'm sure you can talk a little bit more about this. But, you know, like, I've known that Apple has their own streaming service coming out. But this seems to be the first one, at least that I've seen in terms of previews. Is this one of the shows they're choosing to lead the service with? Yeah, there's going to be a handful of shows to start. and they've done like many previews of some other ones.

There's a really cool one. This is a little off the space topic. There's really cool one where it's sci-fi-ish, apparently, that the whole world goes blind, and then it's several generations later, and somebody has sight finally. I think that's kind of the stick of it. But the whole world is now designed around not having sight,

and there's like this sci-fi twist to that all. So they're coming out with a couple of different series. There's a Steve Carrell, morning show-based one, So they've kind of got one in each genre. And this is like the big, the giant sci-fi epic series to lead it off. And there's obviously a lot of crossover with their tech audience that I think they wanted something like that to get people excited. And obviously relevant, you know, this year's or 50 years from the moon landing.

So they seem to have hit all the quadrants on that. But this is going to be, I don't know how many they're going to have, but it's going to be, you know, one of a small handful of shows when they launch. What do you think that says, though, that they lead with a space show? that's pretty, that's pretty cool. Yeah, and that's probably why I got like interested in, in what you were thinking about the nostalgia aspect, because there's, there's so many, just looking back through what stories are popular,

we, like, you know, heroize these great moments in history, and we've watched a million World War II movies and a ton of Renaissance era, like epic art or feudalism or whatever else is happening in medieval Europe, and we've watched a ton of stuff about that, the American Revolution time period. And there's these moments, these eras in history, or even to go

more Apple route, there's so many shows and books around the creation of Apple, the creation of Microsoft, those early PC days. So it's always nice to have another take on the epic moment done with a bigger and badder budget

and more, you know, like the next generation of effects and all that kind of stuff. And it keeps you modern because you don't want to be watching the right stuff forever as good as that movie is, right? You do want something that a kid today could pull up on Netflix and be comfortable, not feeling like they're watching something that's what their parents watch, but is made for them and seen through their eyes today with all of the cultural references pulled out from then. So I'm like super pro heroizing the great moments of history and then doing it

for a new audience. I'm way up on it. Yeah. I like what you said about these moments and how there's like these these time periods that you stick with because like i feel like apollo has really like planted its flag for a lack of a better pun uh like in this kind of like this era right and there's there's really like apollo has now like developed its own kind of artistic style like there is literally like an artistic creative lens on it now you think about the the colors right it's like this black and white theme with little aspects of red and blue which is you know it's the actual technical stuff is that color, you know, the red launch tower, but it's also the flag. And you got like the Hasselblad pictures with the little crosshairs in it. It's like that's like an iconic Apollo thing.

There's typography that is designed in the space age era. Yeah. There are all of those kind of graphical elements that are iconic from that time period. The tone, like audio too, right? The tone, right? And then it was a cantar tone or something. Even just like Cronkites, not necessarily his voice, but his, his, like, his, tomber and stuff, like, the way, you know, the rhythm of his voice is, like, now kind of, like, labeled itself on this whole Apollo-style creative setting. It's like a... And, add in all the cultural effects of that decade. Like, that was the decade that made modern America in a lot of ways.

It set in motion things that took effect for the next 50 years. So there's so much of our national mythology in that time period. But, and I think, you know, because I kind of want to step back a little bit, from the mythology of it to talk about what happens when that mythology doesn't match what we want it to be. I don't know how you guys felt about the movie.

I'd be interested to hear because when I saw First Man last year, I absolutely loved it because it was the real story of who Neil Armstrong was, not the one small step for a man

person but you know that deep down he was this he was a father who never got over the loss of a child you know and viewed and of course it's all based on his autobiography right and he viewed what he was asked to do on Apollo 11 as as the job

right and they've got him on record and you know and of course there was the whole they don't show the planting of the flag even though the flag was there, very prominently and clearly. But, you know, like, they have, but one thing that struck me about that, that choice in the movie and the sort of reaction to it was, you know,

they have Armstrong on record and on audio saying that he thought that maybe the flag wasn't the right thing to plant and to put there, but that's what he was asked to do, so yes, sir, I'll do it. And I thought it was a very fascinating look at a reality of the space program that we don't normally get to see, and people hated it. I mean, people hated this movie. And I thought that was interesting, right?

That we do want to almost fetishize this period in our history. And now that we're arriving back at the, you know, not back at, but now that we're arriving at the 50th anniversary of it happening, right? that's what we want to remember, right? We don't want to remember the little things that hung us up along the way, right? We don't actually, I mean, just based on like what people are watching, like, or what people are tweeting about, like, we don't, we wanted to remember Apollo 8 on its 50th anniversary last December. Nobody seemed to give a care in the world about nine or ten when their anniversaries came.

than the poop thing, the poop thing. Other than the poop thing. Yeah, well, again. That's good point. Fair point. Yeah. But, you know, so I think that's an interesting element to this. If we don't, we don't necessarily want the truth of these periods.

We want what we remember as the truth. And I think that's what really appealed to me in the trailer for all mankind is that's the, I think that's the ultimate question it's begging, right, in asking that question if the Soviets had succeeded first. Yeah. We care because we don't really, as an American culture or Western culture, talk about the first spacewalk because the Soviets did that, right? We don't really talk about the first woman in space because the Soviets did that, right?

You hear about Sally Ride and you don't even, odds. we hear about Ed White and the first Space Walk on Gemini. So, you know, it's, I think that's an element of this series that I'm looking forward to. And that I think science fiction as a whole does a good job of asking. You know, how do we feel about our

own prejudices when they're couched in these ways, when they're couched in a presentation that you don't realize right away what your prejudice is? I think you're hitting on exactly why like that 10% of me is not into it because

Because the stuff that we want to remember, the good fluffy stuff, isn't helpful for what we want to do today. Like, every time we look at one of these new programs, someone's like, oh, I'm waiting for the Kennedy moment, you know, for today. It's like, okay, well, it's just because that's the good stuff that you remember, this beautiful speech. But that's not what got the job done. and if we don't look at if we look at something like the hard work being done in the background and the right circumstances all those kinds of things we'd be a lot better off

and trying to make today's programs actually succeed yeah and yes yes a hundred times yes to that because you know these big everyone and I feel like this happens every time Elon gives an update to Starship which we know is coming in the next month or so it's the Kennedy moment Everyone says that.

Everyone says that. And I'm just, and I always am sitting there reading this going like, we've heard Elon speak. Like there's a lot of good stuff. And he says a lot of really, you know, powerful things that, you know, to your point, Jake,

that, you know, behind the scenes is what's being done, right? To get this to fruition. But he is not the Kennedy orator. And if we keep waiting for the Kennedy, and you know, likewise, neither is Trump, neither is Pence. you know, and neither is

Brydenstein. But we keep waiting for one of these figures and neither is Bezos either because we can't forget Blue Origin and now I want to do a video of the by the end of the decade's speech with each one of them

voice acted. Yeah. Well, yeah. You know, and and to me, like everyone keeps waiting for these things and then when they don't materialize people think it's a letdown

while other portions of the internet are like having a meltdown, you know, of joy over this stuff. And I think that the problem is that a lot of people are waiting for the Kennedy moment, and it's not going to come. It was a singular point in history like Apollo 11. It's the same reason that nobody remembers what the commander of Apollo 12 said when he set foot on the moon. I sure do. We do. I sure do.

A lot of people listening to because it was wonderfully hilarious. That is my hometown Shorty. That's one that hits me right in the fields. But, you know, people don't remember that because, you know, in a lot of ways, and I feel like this was an issue that sort of plagued NASA a little bit with the shuttle program because it becomes the secular question of, yeah, okay, but we've done that. What are we doing next? What are we doing next?

and people don't want to remember what Apollo's 12, 14, 15, 16, and 17 did in terms of bringing back lunar samples and the lunar science that they did and what they left behind to help us sign about the moon. You know, and no one really seems to, in broader culture, you know, care about the really amazing things that China is doing right now on the moon, right? Because China is branded as the enemy. And it just seems like the part that we don't want to remember about Apollo, is the part that's still here today and it's you label the other person as the enemy and therefore we have to beat them

but there is no enemy right now right so we have to create this element of nostalgia around the moon landings and the anniversaries and I think it can in a lot of ways help you know make us loose sight

of what our next goal is I'm wondering about away from the historical kind of stuff that we've watched the big grand sci-fi series that happened from the 60s for the decade or two that the monoculture was still a thing and we had

2001 of Space Odyssey we had Star Wars we had the Star Trek's and they were these big future-looking things that looked like a future that could exist but we haven't seen enough space yet and people kind of you know came around those ideas and you hear so many people today talking that are like, well, I was inspired by Apollo and Star Wars or something

like that. I'm curious today, now that we have, you know, 50 years of space history behind us, and the monoculture is all but gone and everybody's in their niches, if we would, if those things matter to have like these big, grandiose sci-fi spectacles, and if so, what would be the things that you think a Bridenstein 30 years from now would say he watched growing up that got them into space. Oh, wow. Or those don't matter anymore. Those don't exist.

And it will be the nerds like us talking about it until the end of time. No, I think they do still matter. And I think they do still exist. Because the one that does it for me right now is the expanse. I was hoping that you would say that because that's my jam. I mean, that show, impresses me on every single level. And if you remove the proto molecule

in the alien life element of it, right? The thing that grabbed me and captivated me about it, right, is it asked, and of course it's based on the book series, which asks the same questions. But it postulated the question of once we do this, right, once we colonize Mars and we colonize the moon and we move outward to Ceres and we start using Jupiter and Saturn and the ice fields, you know, to sustain these cultures.

But therein lies the key. Cultures. We are no longer one culture bound to one planet. So Earth becomes its own faction with the moon and Mars, its own in Sari's and the Belters. And watching people live on Sari's as postulated by these books and this and the series is really what did it for me. because it was, it skipped the Mars thing, which I thought was brilliant because everyone sort of knows what it's going to look like, right?

It's, it's just earth enough that you can push it to the back of your head how different it is, right? But, I mean, Sari's when they take the whiskey and they pour it and it and it goes up into the glass because that's what gravity on Sari's does. Like, that's what I would hope, you know, and it asked tough questions about politics, right, and what this would look like. So I would hope that a Bridenstein or a flight controller or an astronaut 30 years from now would say that the expanse was one of those, was the series that got them interested and went forward. And I say that as a diehard Star Trek fan. I would say the expanse. Yeah. The thing about Star Trek,

it's a good comparison you draw there, Star Trek and the Expans. Expans feels, they're both futuristic, but expanse feels so much more real and almost like, in a weird sense, achievable, even though there's like a whole bunch of shit

you would never want to achieve in the expanse. But like, you know, like it feels like it could be us, right? And therefore it feels accessible within our grass. Like Star Trek is just, it's utopia, right? And so it's a whole different thing. It's more of a fun thing to imagine, whereas expanse is like,

oh, yeah, I could definitely see people fighting over water in the middle of the solar system, not 100%. And Star Wars is the expanse in a million years, right? Like when we have done that to all of the galaxies. Yeah. A million years ago, though, right? Well, yeah, it's a far, far away. It's some wormhole shit happening.

it's all temporal mechanics um yeah i mean it it's and it's not just that it felt achievable like like when you look at the structures that they built on these other on these other worlds right and you can say oh yeah duh that's that that that that looks like what something humans would do right we're not going to build these weird space city it's out there right it's going to be concrete and wrought iron and drywall and shit's going to break and you're going to have to kick the console to get it to work, you know? And the Mormons. And the Mormons are there doing their thing.

Yeah. And it doesn't paint humanity in a utopian view, right? Which is a huge difference from Star Trek. But it's something that I get the same feel from the expanse. that I got watching Battlestar Galactica, right? And even though they took a conceit of faster than light, because that's what the story required, right? I mean, your engine's fire and you've got G-Force, right?

And they weren't afraid to say, yeah, we've got no atmosphere. We're going to flip that sucker around, flip and burn, baby, you know. And it had that sort of gritty realism of I could imagine humans achieving this in 200 years and for better for worse, right? That's how you see yourself and that's what you aspire to change. I'm also another question about this of watching these kind of shows with your non-space people in your life. There's some moments that stand out as a moment when you're like, oh, wow, that got them. Like, that's the thing that hit them.

And my biggest experience with that was going to see Interstellar. And I was with my now wife and a couple of friends. None of them into space at all. The scene when they go down to the black hole planet, the planet around the black hole, and then they come back up and the dudes aged like 50 years or whatever on the ship, the audible gasp that, like, swept over everybody in the theater as they realized what happened,

like the fact that that movie got them to the point where they understood relativity in such a concrete way and it like it made people cry that was brilliant and this is obviously not on the same trail of like you could see humanity doing this because this is just us that we could make it to a black hole um but that moment was so artfully done that actually made a point land that i think people remember uh and i don't know if i've had many of those kind of experiences watching other series or shows or movies yeah yeah that's a it's a It's a good point. And actually, one of our listeners, Zed Dog is talking about whether, you know, the expanse is well known outside of the geek realm. And I think that's an interesting topic is like, you know, what parts of these are we just shouting at each other in our bubble and what parts are actually getting outside? Highroom Matthew McConaughey. Yeah. Well, so, and the one kind of experience I have was that that Hulu show, the first that got canceled. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one season, whatever, it was like eight episodes. And it's the first human crew to Mars. And it's, again, it's very, very near future, very achievable feeling.

It's literally like an SLS rocket and, you know, NASA's there and all that kind of stuff. And they're making fun of me now for saying Zed Dog. Is it Z Dog? I don't know. I don't know where Zed Dog is located. Oh, damn, Z Dog. Okay. You keep pronouncing it how 99% of the world pronounces it.

So the thing about this, the first series, and I'm super sad it got canceled because I watched it with my wife and she liked it. And so that tells me like that something about that broke down the walls of the bubble, right? And I think it was really about, and I think Anthony you told me this is that this is one of the first times where a show is like spent a considerable amount of time. making you care about the people before they put the people in trouble and then you and then you watch the show about the trouble right um and that sort of ties back i'm weaving this whole thing now so ties back to what you were saying chris was that like um the first man people didn't like it but it was really like it was about Neil Armstrong it was about the human the person that actually you know and people like stories about people and so that's always going to be something that's going to connect

people in. And I just, I wonder how, how things like that, like for storytellers in the future that are weaving the next space drama, how they can use that to actually, you know, have an impact on what we're doing. Yeah, I think it's an interesting, it's an interesting question that, I mean, first I want to step back and talk about it in terms of how you, you know, brought it up and contextualized it with the first, because this was a series that I had a lot of issues with. and did not like and was honestly not sorry to see it not

return and you know and my girlfriend tried to watch it too and we both kind of felt the same way after the first episode where we were like there's no there there

it's you know I kind of felt after the end of that like the only reason I'm supposed to care about them is because they're going to the crew goes to Mars. So I'm supposed to care about all the family drama that's going on and all the personal stuff they're dealing with before they leave. But without seeing who they are as part of the crew and who they are doing their mission,

I was just kind of like, this could be an episode of Dallas. This could be an episode of designated survivor. This could be an episode of criminal minds. And I just got, it just kind of lacked, for me, the science fiction element that is supposed to draw us in, right? And that makes us ask these questions in different ways. And I think this is where a lot of series that are set in present day and try to tell present day stories, right, without the huge element and focus on space go awry. is they're trying to fit into a genre, but then they end up,

you end up watching it, and it could be any genre. You know, and this isn't to say that the shows weren't well written in that Bo Willemann didn't do a good, and the writing staff did not do a good job of creating a compelling series, but I don't think it fit into the sci-fi genre

in a way that made us question something about the future, made us question how we were going to do something, how we were going to get somewhere, and what are the sacrifices we're going to be asked to do and need to do along the way. And I felt that that's where it fell down, whereas shows like the expanse, and I think to a greater, to a same extent,

but in a different direction, that Star Trek Discovery, which I'm a huge fan of that series as well, asks in better ways, right? Where we're firmly invested in a, okay, like, we're here, it's the future, how we got here is the, and how we're acting is the question that we reflect back on ourselves now.

And that's what it was missing for me. It was the reflecting back on ourselves that was missing from that show for me. That's fair. He's pleased enough of the, answer. No, it's, it's fair. I mean, it's like, I don't know, I, I, I, I, you're, you're right about, like, you know,

should we only care about them because they have drama, I guess is what the point you're kind of, you're kind of making, but, uh, but here's the thing that I like about the fact that there's a million different attempts at this kind of genre is because everybody's going to work different, but, but if you get somebody with the thing they care about, they might see something else and go, oh, that's kind of interesting, and then look something up and be like, oh, I wonder what that NASA thing was. I wonder if that exists. And then they look something else up.

And then they watch the Martian, because it's, like, relevant to all the stuff that they were looking. So I like the fact that there's a thousand inroads, and not all of them pan out, but you just hope for that one little bit of cross-pollination that gets them onto the next thing, that makes them think about stuff. Then they end up seeing something with SpaceX, and then they're jazzed about that, and they look up something else about, you know, it's that stuff that I like to, even I get a lot of comments from people that are super into SpaceX, but not about a lot of other stuff.

And they want me to focus more about SpaceX. I'm like, it's awesome that you're here because of SpaceX, and that's why I love that SpaceX is doing what they're doing, because they're bringing so many people into space that weren't before. And I try to channel the excitement towards all of space, right? Like, keep that momentum going, channel it over here directly. And that's kind of what I want all these other shows to do, is that somebody watches the first and says, I liked Sean Penn running shirtless down the river in New Orleans, and also

that rocket looked cool as hell. I'm going to go check out some more rocket stuff. And yes, and there's definitely an element of that. And if it gets them to, you know, um, you know, and if it, if it, if it, if it sparks something, then, then it did its job, right? I think the larger question with this is sort of what do we mean by science fiction, right? Because is it enough, because this is where I kind of faltered on, this is where I faltered on both, linking on the name of it now, the Hulu show, the first. There's a lot of first shows out there.

It's where I faltered on the first, and it's where I also faltered on National Geographic show, Mars, where while I thought the concept for the Nat Geo series was incredible that you were watching like a half hour drama piece instead of an hour-long drama piece, and that was intercut with the other half-hour being interviews with Elon Musk and Neil deGrasse Tyson and all of these real-world people. It kind of, for me, was like, okay, well, then what are we trying to actually tell here, right? Like there was a lot of really cool stuff that I thought they did on that show, but that as a drama, I would have wanted them to just be on Mars.

like getting to Mars and having a problem with your ship while it's entering the atmosphere and the only way for it to survive is for the commander to sacrifice himself. Like I was like, why couldn't that have been the first seven minutes of an hour-long drama? Because I guarantee you, like, while NASA has their like little contingency plan to what to do when people die, like, if you take six people and cut them down to five, there are so many questions to ask about that, right? there are so many interesting ethical questions to ask about what if he was injured and we could save him but it would take a lot of medical equipment and maybe we don't have that to spare so we let him die like that would have blown my mind right but instead where the series went was after six episodes the cruise on mars and they find life and to me i was like we've avoided all of the questions that i think draw us to science fiction that Star Trek and Star Wars, right, and Dr. Who is the perennial three, you know, big wigs of science fiction do when they are at their best, where they force us to confront these ethical questions and make us wonder, what would I do in that situation, right? And I think that's what the expanse does really well. Like when Holden's holding a gun to someone's head and you're

like, oh my God, like, I totally understand why you want to off this person right now. But like, I I don't know if I'd do that. Like, I don't know if I'd save you if you're pinned under a piece of giant heavy machinery. You're kind of a dick, you know. And I sense a mutiny coming from you. No spoilers. But I think that's where some of the newer entrance into this field are not stacking up. And I think that's why people tend to turn away from them.

Because when you think sci-fi, you think, okay, I'm going to be challenged about something and then they don't challenge you about that. Even though they're valid series in and of themselves like I thought the first did an excellent job of like the toll it takes on the family members that you leave behind. But without seeing them in space

without getting a sense of what that mission was there was no like the question about it to me was sort of void because if you were following and doing like these back and forth between Mars and Earth and you're like all right well let's just say you've got six people and you've sat them on Mars and it's a mix of men and women well let's be honest there are desires there are drives someone's going to hook up people are

going to have sex is that a breaking of marriage vows if you're on another planet for five years that's like asking the real questions this is all about asking the real questions the space equivalent of the different zip code rule. It's like you have the celebrity list and the people on Mars list. There's like the two different kinds of lists that you got. But anyway, that's just kind of where I was like, when I first heard of the concept of the first, I was like, oh, this is fascinating because these are all the places they could go, and then it didn't go that way.

Right. So that's where I think people want science fiction to go, and they want to be challenged by it. And I think that's something that sadly modern sci-fi has lost. And I'll even bring it back to one of the contemporary, you know, to the perennials of this. You know, like, you know, I felt the same way about JJ Abrams's Star Trek trilogy, right, with Chris Pine and Zach Kinto, where they weren't, they were cake-ass action movies. but I was kind of like, but where's the question? Where's the challenge

to me? Right? And it wasn't there. So to me, I was like, well, and this isn't Star Trek. Right. Those movies are really about like moving Star Trek from sci-fi to blockbuster,

right? Yeah. Yeah. Man, could I go on forever about that? I'm glad discovery did not go that route. and has some points to it. But it was the same for me for Star Wars and the Last Jedi, right? Where, like, I think I got an hour and a half into that movie, and I'm like, oh, this is just going to be about Leah trying to escape on a single ship.

And I was like, where, you know, where's my, so I think, like, sci-fi, it's something that sci-fi is struggling with right now, oddly enough. and you see these big franchises shying away from the things that elevated them in the first place, and you see smaller series and smaller shows like The Expans going, oh, no, we're diving headlong into this. And they get popular. And, you know, but I think it takes us, because this goes back to your point, you guys' point of, I think it takes us to introduce those shows to other people. And so yes, it takes place in space, but watch it because it's not a space show.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the listeners are begging for us to talk about The Martian. I think this is a good segue because this is a good example of a show that I think hits all those sweet spots, right? Because you have an appeal to the core space fan. So there's like, you know, a whole bunch of like engineering minutia in there that you can know. I didn't interrupt you because the dog making her opinion known is Starbucks after Kara Thracan Battle Star Galactica. Hi, Starbucks.

She even name our dogs after our science fiction shows. Go on it. That was a cute puppy. I don't know where I was anymore. So, yeah. The Martian is good, right? So you have all this engineering minutia that people like us can just like geek out about. It's straight up the NASA design reference mission.

It really is. Yeah. It's always like it feels really good there. But you also have this, that sci-fi question you're talking about, right? Like, what if we left someone behind? Like, what do we do with that? This is an ethical question we've never had to face before. But then you mix in just kind of this like good, like just general interest, kind of humor and entertainment value to it. And it's... Don Glover. National hero, yeah. National hero, yeah. Slapp a little Matt Damon. on there for the sex appeal and that's it like you're good right um that's plus i think that was the right moment in time that jpil has that that thing about it that even non-nerds know like the sky crane and curiosity and they know they do really cool interesting things so you have them working these problems as like the nerds in the show and i feel like that even landed well yeah yeah and but you know i the reason I love the Martian

A, I love the book too It has one of the best It has not one of the, it has the best opening line Of a novel ever Isn't it like, oh shit or something? It is fuck I'm fucked And I'm like, oh, I'm in, I don't even know what this is about

But this is awesome But it's exactly that, right? The whole point of the movie is asking that question What would you do? Right. and at the end of that movie when they turned the ship around and everything and it's it's their answer right and and i felt like there were equal numbers of people in those audience in the audience right who were like yeah i'd go back for him and an equal number of people saying no i wouldn't yeah and and you've hit it at that point and i i agree

with you the martian i think is one of those excellent examples of of striking the balance between the stuff that's going to get the stuff that's going to get the three of us to go, oh, look, they even did that correctly, right? With the fuel mixture or whatever. And people who weren't going for the technical element to leave having gotten something, you know, out of it. It's a great example.

And then there was Artemis. And then there was Artemis. And then there was Artemis. It's a really cool world building in it. Now, I'm talking about the book, Artemis, or the SLS or the NASA version of the project yet? No, non-political. They're doing a movie about that, though, right?

I believe so, yeah. I think so. I'm curious, because there was some really cool world building in, like, we all know that there's going to be a visitor center at the Apollo 11 landing site, and I thought it was really cool that the currency on the moon was solid landed goods, a slug, was like one. kilogram of goods landed on the lunar service and the fact that like Kenya would be a badass spot for a launch site. There was these really interesting, there was just some really interesting little like hooks there about, you know, the same way we were talking about these places that feel like a real future. Like that,

that doesn't feel that far off. But I'm curious about how we get that other, those other plot points that the Martian made people, you know, put themselves in those situations, how you get that out of what was trying to be an interesting story in a mundane place. It sounds funny to say mundane, but the lifestyle of living on the moon was made to be like just being on a mission somewhere else. Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting question

because I think that's part of it, right? That, I mean, for all the cool videos we get, right, when the astronauts are off duty or they're taking us on tours of the space station and they're, you know, flying through the modules, you know, like that or that great video of Garrett Reesman on a shuttle mission doing this in the middle of an empty module and he can't get over to the side, you know, and everything. Like, as cool as all of those are and like, you know, the launches and the returns and everything, like, I mean, that's, that, it is a deployment. I mean, it is like being in one of the branches of the armed services. And, you know, except you're not being deployed

to Afghanistan or Iraq or, you know, as a member of the Peace Corps somewhere, your deployment is to the space station for six months. And, you know, you comparatively get, I mean, you get less time than we do off, right? I mean, it's not a 40-hour work week up there. I think that element of reality is a very important part of the story that people need to understand that I thought, you know, the Martian kind of did well. Like, you know, Matt Damon wasn't just, it wasn't that he was just trying to survive because he wanted, because he was holding out this hope that, you know, someone would, you know, come rescue him. It was sort of also this moment of like, yeah, but the base, even if I die, the base can still be used. I've still got to clean the air fill.

I've still got to, you know, make sure the potatoes can grow, which I thought was brilliant, because it would be potatoes. It just so would be potatoes. It's always the first thing I pick when I start up surviving Mars. That's the first thing I'm right. I think that's an important element and an untold story of this, is the monotony of spaceflight. And also, you made me think of my favorite part of the expanse

is the fact that Mars is America and we are going to fight the Martian War for independence. We do have a badass Navy. And yes, our forefathers at Earth and Luna are way more technically advanced than we are, but yet they are still going to get their ass kicked. Yeah, until, like, they don't, right? I mean, yeah, that was a fascinating analogy

that they drew there. Yeah, that America just basically exported itself to Mars and Earth just became Europe. Yep, straight up. And unions. Like Brussels is on the moon and stuff. United Nations part of me. It was taught United Nations as international relations and diplomacy,

the middle school and high school kids for nine years. When it was like, oh, yeah, by the way, the UN is the Earth government. I was like, oh, that's so what would happen if America didn't exist. Like, that is, yeah. All right, so we're at the point in the show when we typically do picks, but we thought tonight, we usually bring like some spacey thing that we've been reading or watching, but this,

this is too relevant. So if you had to, you can define your own criteria for a show, a movie, or whatever. Oh, Jake has a lightning round. I've gotten a late word that Jake has a lightning round. I did not know this. I did prepare a terminal count. Okay, this is great news. Chris, welcome.

idea what this is going to be. Chris, welcome to Terminal Count. This is my favorite part of the show. It used to be called Lightning Round. I used to play ACDC's Thunderstruck while we did the questions. We've gotten a DMCA takedown. We haven't, but I feel cool saying that. You know, it's called Terminal Count.

Terminal account named by our listener, Kurt. Kurt gets all credit for that. Who is also our lawyer who has defended us against the DMCA take down of ACDC. Okay. So the rules of the terminal count are, it's 10 questions, and you have to answer really quickly. That's about it. Okay. Very quickly.

He wants answers really quickly. But they're fun, they're fun. Okay, so we'll start. So T minus 10. They're fun, but just keep on your toes, Chris. Keep on your toes. So the first one is always a calibration question. Star Trek or Star Wars?

Star Trek. Okay, good. The correct answer was actually, they're completely different shows and it should not be compared. it's okay to like both of them. And they say a lot about your political leanings, which one you pick. Okay, I get it. What if in the George, you take that Star Love, not Star Wars? Star Love, not Star, yeah, that's good.

Again, it says a lot about your political leanings on which one you pick. All right, T-mi-S. Hopefully, to anyone who follows me on Twitter, my political leanings are not a surprise at all. All right, T-mi-9, Armageddon or Gravity? Oh, God. Armageddon. Yeah, thank God we didn't talk about gravity at all in this show, because that movie sucked.

Oh, I, yeah, I did not bring it up because, yeah, as soon as it was like, we'll get from Hubble to the space station and steal a Soyuz, I was like, oh, I'm done. With a fire station. All the stations are just camped out right in the same spot up there. You know that, right? Yeah, I can see it. Exactly.

Yeah. It's not getting it. Starlings are surrounding them now. I watched the Armageddon launch. sequence before we came on the show. And I was like, I wonder how bad it is. And of course, it's like two shuttles launching within 100 feet of each other, which is like

really, really laughable. But I did- Main engines are still firing as they approach legally distinct premiere. Yeah, yeah, with no external tank. Yeah. But I did love the fact that they called out Max Q. I was like, well, someone consulted someone

at some point. Yeah. Just like, what's a good term? we could use here, yeah. Okay, T. Mai is 8. So, we know you like Armaged over gravity. Hold on. Hold on. I'm having a vision of whoever got Max Q in that

movie. And I just want to think that it's like one of us really annoyed that this scene's happening. It's like, can we just, can we please just call out Max Q? Like, I can't do this scene unless you call it out. Like, everything else is horrible. Can we just call it out, please? Sorry. I love that visual.

And you can just sell some of the language. You're like, booster sip. And you're like, oh, wow, okay. Yeah. Because that's a call. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you like Armageddon of Gravity, but T-minus 8 is, what is your actual favorite bad space movie or show?

Oh, damn. Like the ones that you hate and you still love to watch them. Are you too much of a purist for this question? He was no time. Man, I'm trying to think, yeah, because I'm kind of a purist if I hate it. I'm not going to watch it. I mean, as much of Star Trek It is, I walked out on Star Trek into darkness.

I literally stood up and went on in the movie theater and walked out. Oh, God, what was that one? Oh, I know it. I know it. It was this wacky comedy from the 90s about Mars. When Mars attacks? No, no, no, I actually loved that movie.

Oh. No, it was about, like, It's this clumsy guy and he's like a doofus and he's on the crew. I need to watch this movie. The hell was the name of that thing. Okay. You're talking about Rocket Man. Yes, Rocket Man.

That's it. Oh, it is Rocket Man. Okay. Yeah, Rocket Man. Yes. Oh, my God. Yeah, that would be it. Okay.

Good. Rocket Man. Wow. Okay. I think it was a Disney movie. Yeah, it was. Walt Disney, 97, baby. Yeah.

It's bad, but oh my God, it's also I've never seen that. I'm going to have to carve out a little bit of time here. Yeah, yeah. Our listener, Radish has called that out, so that's good. Okay, thank you, radishes. Rocket Man. All right.

T-minus 7 is the opposite. It's the bad space movie that you just absolutely cannot bear to watch. You will turn it off. You will walk away. You will burn the book, whatever it is. What's the worst one? Oh. It's supposed to be a lightning round, Chris.

I know. but like this is a okay well I gotta answer this in a slightly different way because I don't make it through those movies so like it's not like I'm gonna you know like that I can tell you the one I absolutely

will never watch though if that if that's a relevant one I like this it was there was a made for TV movie in the late 80s about the Challenger disaster and I will not watch that Wow. Oh, wait.

Hmm. Which one's that? Because there was a couple of those, and one was actually kind of good. Late 80s? Late 80s, early 90s. They did not waste any time. That's hashtag too soon. That's hashtag too soon.

Yeah. It's almost too soon now. Yeah. So yeah, I will absolutely not watch that one. Okay, all right. T-minus 6, favorite portrayal of a historical, space figure? Neil Armstrong in

First Man. Okay. Shout out Ryan Gosling. It's Ryan Gosling, right? I get the Ryan's mixed up. Yes. Yes. It's not Vancouver. It's not the Canadian one? Yes, it's not the Canadian one. Yes. All right, T-minus five. Total side note. I had no idea

that Vancouver's like was Van City. So like following Ryan Reynolds, I was like, why is he like Van City Reynolds? I don't. get this. And then when I was in Vancouver in early March, like I heard it said and I was like, oh, yeah, I get it because he's from Vancouver. Yeah, got it. Anyway, yes. And then when we're done this, and we're going to talk offline about how you came to Vancouver and you didn't talk to me. So we're going to bring that up later. Spoiler alert, because it was like a matter of hours. You may have a pass.

All right. T minus five. We're going to one more question on this. space movies thing you're stranded in space you only have three movies to watch forever what are they Star Trek 2 Wrath of Khan Wow

okay right Austin Powers the first one Love it totally was not on my bingo shit And I know it's supposed to be a lightning around My brain

Rocket man. Rocket man. Yes, let's go with Rocket Man. That's, yeah, that works. All right, T-minus 4. If you could give NASA the power and the money and the technical ability to build any spaceship from any sci-fi show. Oh, my gosh. This is such a great question.

What would you do? Oh, damn. Like, think about NASA today, what they're doing today. What could you give them? I've got my answer. I got my answer. It would be the Enterprise D. D, okay.

I knew you would specify it too. You wouldn't just say Enterprise. Oh, yeah. And if I was going to say Enterprise is the original, I would say to Scotty did no bloody A, B, C, D, or E. That's great. That's a great lightning round question, Jake. I love that.

It's a good one, right? That's a lot of mention to that question. Yes. Yeah, all right. T-minus 3, what mission or person or event should there be a movie about next? Oh, wow. Valentina Tereshkova.

That's great. Good one. I'd watch that just for the scene of her ejecting from the capsule. Yes, right? Man, you got to give the Russians credit. They're like, we're going to strap you into this little ball that you can barely fit in, shoot you into space. You don't get to land under parachute.

We have to eject you out of it. and then you land because the spaceship will crash. Like, you got to look. Russia and the Soviets do not get enough respect for what they were able to do in the early years of the space. What they were able to convince people to do. Is that that? It sounds crazy. Well, there was a whole series on HBO about that.

Yeah, good point. Yeah. You know, it's like, it's like kind of like 50 years ago, you know, before there was software development, the Russians had agile figured out in hardware, right? Just like, what is literally the minimum viable product for going to space? It's like, does it have landing gear? No. Does it need it? Well, we can get that on the next version. Oh, wow. All right, T minus two. So, Chris, you do a lot of, like, you know, kind of science communications, STEM communication. You're always kind of out on Twitter out in your articles and stuff.

What misconception in the general public popularized through some sort of film or book makes your job harder? Which one are you really angry about? Oh, wow. You know, think about it, is it dark side of the moon? Oh, God. Or something else.

So, literally, he's putting his face in his hands. My brain. He has taken his glasses off. He's looking at his face and his hands. Oh, my brain flashed to two things instantly when you said that as Dark of the Moon is one, that people actually believe that one side of the moon never gets done by, because Dark of the Moon. And then the Transformers movie Dark of the Moon where they like pulled a space shuttle out of retirement

and like launched it instantly with no work. And it was like, it doesn't, you can't just grab a spacecraft out of storage. It doesn't work like that. I think the thing that... I'm not sure if I would say this is an annoyance or it makes my head spin, but it's one that I constantly come up against, which is the idea that I think the general public

because of movies believes that spacecraft are under constant propulsion. And it's really hard to convey why that isn't necessary beyond just the there's nothing to slow it down, right? I think people just have this idea that, you know, like New Horizons is like still firing its engine and it's just going, going, going, going, going, baby.

And, you know, shout out to Alunstern if you're listening. I got New Horizons in there. Don't be mad at me because we don't think Pluto's a planet. That's the one that I think is the hardest, in terms of the reality, but I have a different answer of the one that really annoys me from the space side of things,

from like us and companies, is this word anomaly. We know what it, when they say there's been an anomaly, an anomaly can literally be something minor is leaking and it will literally take us 30 seconds to fix it by opening and closing a valve

all the way up to there's nothing left of it, you know? And anomaly is just this utterly useless word and I wish we could come up with a better word. Oh, you didn't hear. You didn't hear there's a new word for it. Oh, God. It's an observation.

Oh, God, yes. Who did that? It's an observation. Yeah. That was not a German with the Omega. Yes, there was an observation. Yeah, they also agree with your really, hot take about anomalies.

Oh, God. Jake's dead. I don't know what... Is this the appendicitis? What's happening? Yeah, you're right. That wasn't observation. It was definitely an observation.

That shit blew up. It's extra funny, Chris, because we had this whole thing last episode about what to call listeners of this show. Like, they needed like a collective now. They're called anomalies, aren't they? An anomalies is what we came up with. Literally, first sentence of the show, Chris, invalidates our entire existence of the show.

Our theory is wrong. End of the show. All of you listeners are terribly defined, bad name, and we should come up with a new term. So what you're telling me is that I'm never being invited. I don't even think we're going to do the show anymore. I think that was it. Yeah, this is it, yeah.

If it helps, I was just trying to make a joke that you were technically on point by not being on point. That's a good observation. Oh my God. Jake, you got another question left. I actually do have, yeah. It feels like that should have been the end.

That was probably the crescendo, but you got one left. Yeah, well, so, yeah. So the 27 Merlin 1D engines have lit at T-minus 2, so at T-minus 1 health checks, what do you got for me? T-minus 1. Who shot first? Oh, my God. the red shirts shot first, but they missed.

Wow, that was a Roershock test. That was a Roar Shock test. Again, this is right back to the T-M-10 question. Yeah, yeah, it is. Circleed it right around. Damn. That blew my mind. It's supposed to be Han or Grito, Chris.

I know. These red shirts. Trying to impose your Star Trek views on the whole audience. Hey, I could have said the Stormtrooper shot first but missed and the red shirt still died. I have a couple of lightning round or terminal count follow-ups. Number one, you mentioned something about a space shuttle.

Was that Transformers that got launched out of nowhere? Another great space shuttle appearance was in Moon Raker. I love that it was in James Vaughn. That was fantastic. It launched off the back of the carrier aircraft. Yes, that one's awesome. Number two, follow up to your Challenger thing. There was one in 2013 that had William Hurt in it, and it was all about Richard Feynman,

and that one was actually pretty good. So I'd recommend that one. I could not know that that one existed. That's not the one I'm talking about. That one's pretty rad, because it's based off Feynman's books, like all of his appendix to the Challenger Report and all that kind of stuff. So that one's pretty rad. Wow, also, sorry.

Shout out to Radishes, who just mentioned Cowboy Bebop in the chat. That's an excellent series, by the way. Anyway, that totally distracted me. Um, no, I've got to go find that one. I did not know that that one based off of Feynman's stuff. Yeah, um, I did not know that that exists. Okay, I just see the link to it now. Yeah, that one's, that one's rad. So I would, I would recommend that one. That's my terminal count follow-up, Jake. Wow. That's good. We got some picks. All right, we got to do actual picks now. So this is, define your own terminology for whatever that means, whether it's something that you would recommend,

well, we're talking to space nerds here. So what is a canonical space, media thing that if somebody hasn't seen, they need to complete by the next time we do off nominal. I picked a TV series. I don't know if they have enough time. I also picked a TV series. You too go first. Jake, go first.

What do you got? Okay, so I, my, like, the one that sticks with me for a long time and has always got to place my heart is Battlestar Galactica. And so the nice thing about this is it is actually. now apparently it's a little bit older. It doesn't feel that old to me, but like... I've ended 10 years ago, but... Yeah.

So there are people in their 20s who are working in aerospace right now, and I've not watched it. And so this is why I bring it up. But I don't know. To me, it had the right mix of like... Like, you know how like through time the space media has like gotten like a little bit more accurate over time? You go back to Star Trek original series and it's like there's nothing real sciencey about this at all. And then you have like today where you have things like The Martian or whatever and it's like very, very like on point.

This had like the nice kind of like ramp up to that, you know, from 15 years ago where it's like the spaceships can spin around. There's no sound in space, things like that. They were getting some of the details that other shows had had not done before. So I like that. But also it's just like just damn good acting. and writing and drama and stuff. And yeah, you know, and that's Ron Moore as well, which link back to our Star Trek episodes

and as well as the new series, right, for all mankind. Indeed. So definitely watch that show. It's awesome. If only just to hear Adama over the intercom, this is the commander. Amazing. It's like chills down your spine.

This is not a drill. I don't know, man. the opening scene of that would like as my soundboard items that's what you should do is your new text message from me this is the commander I that that that line and all but also I mean the beginning of that show with the miniseries when six walks in and sits down and ask that question are you alive prove it like which is oh damn like the sound of the heels click click click click click click And then there was the space. So I got to admit, I went through, this was a hard one to pick just one. Battlestar Galactica was on there, the expanse was on there, but the one I would really recommend that people have to watch is Star Trek Deep Space Nine. This was a massively underrated and underappreciated entry into the Star Trek saga in the 90s when it.

it aired, but so I'm a little biased because this was the Star Trek series that I used as my pre-9-11 depiction of religion in this. But it was ahead of its time,

and the showrunner said something, Iris Stephen Bear said something at the end of the series at its rap party that, and he said, people might not understand Deep Space Nine now, they might not get it in five years, but in 10 years. they'll understand what we did on Deep Space 9.

And, you know, Deep Space 9 had shapeshifters who could look like anyone. So the enemy could literally look like you. And two and a half years after Deep Space 9 ended was the September 11th terrorist attacks when the enemy did look like you and could be your next door neighbor. And that was a terrific entry into the Star Trek saga. And I would, that's a must. I love it. I'm going to do a quick follow-up to Jake's statements of things that hold up well over time or things that have gotten more realistic. It blows my mind every single time that I see any scenes from 2001 of Space Odyssey that was made in 1969 or in the late 60s.

Like that shit looks like today. It's unbelievable. So you haven't seen it. You probably will hate the movie, but you should watch it because it's great. Honestly, it's a lot better if you just skip the first like 25 minutes or whatever where it's just monkey, monkeys hitting themselves with sticks. Like that's hard. Yeah. Oh, come on. Boom, boom, boom. I'm like, okay.

I'm like, I get it. Cool. Yeah. Right. It was like, it just kept going. It's past like a 60s movie for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Side note, have either of you ever read the short story by Arthur C. Clark that that movie is based on? Yes. Yeah. I don't know how the hell they got that movie out of that. A lot of drugs. A lot of drugs. He's the 60s, man.

It's almost like the very first Star Trek movie is bad like that too, because they're going through that like vortex, and it's just like, it's like 40 minutes of just like, look, we bought this machine that makes fun noises and we want to make sure we get our money's worth on the movie. And it's like, can, gung, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And it's just like... Followed by 13 minutes of Spock

like shooting through space in his EV suit. Yeah, and it's like colors on the screen. You're like, yeah, well, I get drugs were important at this time period, but... Oh, folks. Okay, so that's my little follow-up. I picked two things. I picked one historical, one futuristic.

From the Earth to the Moon is a freaking great miniseries. Have a good time getting your hands on that one because it's impossible. You're either going to have to find a DVD player or definitely pirate it. but don't tell you anyone that I told you to do that. My God, the last time I saw it, it was on VHS. Oh, it's out of DVD now, I think.

I think there's a DVD of it now. Because I definitely watched it in high school as part of one of our history classes, like after the finals week. And now I think that, maybe it was VHS. I don't know. It was an HBO series. Definitely watch that one if you haven't. And the expanse is just too rad because it's like what I think future will look like,

and I love it. And all the stuff we were talking about earlier is just, it's so on point, and I love it. So get in because, That has been revived by a man that cares about space deeply and wants this thing to exist. And I'm very curious to see where that goes because one series we didn't talk about was Firefly. And that's always been looked at as a series that people look back and say, if the internet existed then, if crowdfunding existed then, what would Firefly have turned into before they made the movie?

And this is our first chance to see what a sci-fi series that got canceled on TV, didn't have enough an audience that gets picked up by some internet person who cares about it and has money to fund it, this is our first chance to see what that does, and I'm pretty curious. That is very true. If I can add a change to this one,

because you told me to prepare like a movie or a TV show. We were throwing everything out here, Chris. There's no rules here. We've had an observation. But I have a short story. Oh, I like this. That I would like to throw out there. It's from Arthur C. Clark, and it's called The Star.

And I'll give a little bit, but I won't give away the ending. But it is basically a scientist several hundred years into the future on a ship, and he's an archaeologist. And he is writing a diary entry about a profound discovery that they have made around a star that has gone Nova. and if you want to talk about a short story that has stuck with me and that I memorized instantly as I was reading it, not just because of the way it ends and the revelation therein, that is the science fiction story that will always be with me forever. I like it.

I'm getting it right now. Now, I'm thinking about short stories. I have a favorite from Asimov as well, and I don't remember what it was called, but it's that one I thought you know it's my favorite it's that one

you love it's the robot but it's the one where it's like is it the entropy one? Yes entropy one yeah yeah it's like ever increasing needs for energy

and it just keeps going and going going I would like that one too that one is brilliant it's pretty good yeah what do you think you felt like when you thought of that

high a lot of drugs like how many different drugs can you one person take. Enough to still be alive. At the end. Enough to still be able to write a story after.

To remember. Chris, what are you working on lately? Oh. Let's hear about it. So I'm working on two things. So for listeners, I'm not just a space reporter. I am also a script writer and filmmaker. It's almost like we had you on this show for a particular reason about this kind of show.

Almost, right? Almost. So I am working on one sci-fi and one non-ci-fi, actually. Sci-fi show 300 years in the future, humanity has made it about 200 light years out from Earth in various military ships and not necessarily exploration. and they're testing a new faster than light drive, and there's a malfunction that flings them out. Yep, flings them out about 2,000 light years, and it's a mix of civilian and military,

and when they get the radio antenna working, there's a signal, and they have to decide whether or not they're going to answer that signal and go see if alien life exists in the universe, because there's not been first contact. And it's a look at the civilian and military tensions of what a first contact situation in a dire

we only have a limited amount of supplies and resources would be like. Wrapped up with a good bit of politics and conspiracy and good stuff along. I'm so into this. And people doing it, right? There's also that, yes. Yes.

On a couch and something pox someone. That's a callback. But what I'm working on is not sci-fi-related at all. It is based on reality. It's called Without Borders. I actually won a writing contest with it, with my writing partner, Genresi. And it is about the...

Basically, it's about a unraveling security and diplomatic situation in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and the UN's role in international diplomacy and what happens when nations don't care and turn a blind eye to dictatorships and humanitarian crises. Man, that's going to be rad on both of them. How do you have time to do a podcast like this? Well, because it's happening at 10.30 at night.

If you had said like, oh, Thursday at two, I'd have been like, hard pass. Or, in all honesty, I would have done it and then worked until 10 o'clock at night. We're always amazed at anybody hangs out with us on the weekends. So we thank you very much, Chris, for being here. You are one of our favorites, as always. And we were talking about the end of the year, last year. We were talking about our favorite memories.

And I think I said it, and Jake probably agreed, that Falcon Heavy, watching it down there, and then you running across the field at us after they landed was one of our favorite moments. So that's something I'll always remember as a great moment in time. I do remember that. I do remember that.

And I remember we hugged. And then you guys said, and it's on camera somewhere, that when it launched, you both like instinctively reached out and grabbed each other's hands. No, no, Jake was starstruck. I grabbed his arm and was like, it's happening.

He did that thing like when you're a parent and you like you break hard and you reach over to grab your kid. I believe in the Seinfeld episode with Georgia's father that's called stopping short and it's a move. I definitely stop short on a falcon heavy launch. That kind of brings me to my last question for you guys. When's the next launch you guys are hoping to make it down for? for DM2. Yeah. So that's me. I am planning on being there for DM2. We'll see. It really depends on when it lands. I swear to God, if it's like March 22, I'm going to lose it. It's like right in the middle of LPSC.

But yeah, there's that one. And then next year, I'm going to one Mars launch. I just don't know which one it is yet. So, you know, my backstop is Mars 2020. That's the one that I know I can probably get into. But you're going to try to go for Ex-O-Mars. I'm going to, I'm poking around. I'm making a play to see what the opportunities are. But it's a long shot. It's a long shot.

It's a long shot. I'm going to hit this outro. One, three, four, five, four, three, two, one. I've ended it on that. Jesus. No, I'm not. I can hit it again. I just want to say for everyone who got a tear in their eye,

that was too soon to make an opportunity joke about Fox. That's like making a Challenger movie in the late 80s, Spangelo. That's actually really cool. Yeah, because, yeah, we've got the... Those are the only two, right? Those are the only two Mars missions launching next year. Well, no, there's a whole bunch more,

but it's like I'm not going to go to Japan to watch Mars Hope, and I'm not going to go to China to watch the Chinese rover because they won't let me in. I really think you're going to make it in time. I don't know that I don't have enough information to say, but there's nothing indicating that they're off track yet. And it's like this is about the point where you kind of know if you're going to make it or not, you know. But to be fair, it's China. Is there really any indication they're off track until like the rocket doesn't roll out? Yeah, they just like straight up won't.

They'll just not roll out. and they'd be like, no, we moved it nine months ago. We just didn't tell you. That would be cool. It would be cool to see Japan succeed. I'm still really hoping to, like, at one point, I mean, I'm laughing because it's absurd, and I can only laugh at it, or I'd cry, but, like, I really hope Russia succeeds one of these times and getting something to Mars, like, on.

Guys, like, they just need to break this bad ju-joo cycle that they've seen. They got the first X-O-Mars mission in the right. Theoretical, I mean, it did land. Their part-work. Yeah, they're part-work. But they have the landing platform for the rover. And so it's kind of like what's worse, like depending on ESIDA to land or depending on Ross Cosmos to land because none of them have ever done it. So it's kind of like, oh.

Right. Because Beagle 2. Well, no, no, no, no, no, not true. Beagle 2 landed successfully, but then it didn't. like one one of the things didn't deploy open on the surface like but they got there that last panel didn't open and it was yeah so you had four jobs land and three panels and you made one like yeah yeah so and your next launch is just next week right light sales are you seeing yeah talking i call it light sale there's like 800 satellites on this thing i know it's like 800 satellites on this I know. Yeah, you said light sale, and I was like, well, that that is one of the...

That's one of another satellite that's getting deployed in one of like eight different deployments. Listen, I bought the Kickstarter, so it's a light sale mission to me, okay? Well, if you bought part of the Kickstarter, why aren't you coming to it? I am out of trip. Spend all his money on the Kickstarter. I am on a trip. It was more important to spend money on the Kickstarter than... I see, I see. I want to go to IAC this year.

Yes, we should say that. We did, since the last time we did the show, we both got a thumbs up on the media creds for IAC. So that helps a lot with the travel costs for our friend out west. So if you're in D.C. in October. Yeah, it's like late October, I think.

Plan for an off-nominal meetup. A lot of people are going to that. It's going to be rad. We're going to go drinking. We're going to go to Udvar Heazy and see some space shuttles. It's going to be great. then you do not want me going with you because when I went to see Endeavor at the California Science Center

so I went to Kristen it was one of the times I was out there for a film internship and we're walking around underneath Endeavor and I'm pointing out the boundary layer transition tile where she got hit by the ice ball and we moved to the back end with the replica engines and I turn around to point to an actual engine that they have on display there. And I'm saying, so do you see all these, you know, like when you look inside the engine nozzle, you see all these little ridges. Well, they're actually fuel lines. And I'm explaining everything to her.

And I turn around. And I have about 100 people, including the docents, following me around, going, and the docent are like, we never knew any of this stuff. And if there was a table to flip, I would have flipped it. And I was just, uh-huh. Well, what would you like to know about endeavor? I feel like a lot of listeners to this show have had that experience. I know I had it in the Museum of Flight in Seattle.

They have the shuttle trainer there and you can pay extra and you go inside and they take you up into the deck. And there was like literally it was like a 21-year-old kid who's like, and this is where they control the Canada arm. And I was like, but do, do, do it. I just like go out. And you're like, actually, no, it's the one to the next part because that's where the joystick is. So, yeah, it's pretty funny. Hey, but speaking of Seattle,

speaking of meetups, I have a meetup as well. Yes, I should plug that. Let's go. Let's play this at the end of an hour and a half. For those of you who are still here somehow, I know that you like us very much. And therefore, if you are in the Seattle area,

June 29th, I am hosting a meetup. Anthony decided he didn't want to spend the money to come all the way to Seattle because it's very far away from him. But it's very close for me. So June 29th, it's a brewery called Airways Brewery. It's not too far from a blue-colored space company. And so if you are in the area and want to poke around, come see me.

So what's our page? Events.off, nominal, dot space, is all the information. It's a bit of an early night because they close early. They close at like 7. So it's like 5 p.m. we're starting. I'm sorry. A bar closes at 7? It's a weird thing because it's like in a place where, like,

all the businesses around it. It's like a business bar. And so it's a Monday to Friday joint. Yeah, it's really funny because I tagged him on Twitter. I was like, hey, come hang out with me on Saturday. And the brewery literally did DM'd me. And they're like, hey, how many people are you bringing? Because this is freaking us out.

Like, we only have one server on and we close it seven. Like, what's your deal? Why are you coming? And I was like, it's okay. You're fine. I'm like, I'm not that popular. I love it. There's going to be like probably five of us, maybe.

We'll see. So anyway, but, so if you want to come, let me know so I can make sure. So you can let the servers know. I love it. Chris, thank you so much for coming on, man. You're the best. Oh, it was my pleasure. Invite me back if you want.

If we continue the show. If we ruin the whole thing. Anytime, happy to be here. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 4, 2, 1,000, end of death.