Off-Nominal - 240 - Canada’s NASA (with Trevor Kjorlien)

Episode Date: May 8, 2026

Jake and Anthony are joined by Trevor Kjorlien of Plateau Astro to talk about making and running a mobile planetarium, his time at the Canadian Space Agency, and a whole lot more. Topics Off-Nominal - YouTube Episode 240 - Canada’s NASA (with Trevor Kjorlien) - YouTube Plateau Astro | Astronomy workshops, presentations, and mobile planetarium shows in Montréal Stellarium Astronomy Software Gaia Sky | Gaia Sky Live Interactive Planetarium Symposium - lipsymposium.org Follow Trevor Plateau Astro | Astronomy workshops, presentations, and mobile planetarium shows in Montréal Follow Off-Nominal Subscribe to the show! - Off-Nominal Support the show, join the Discord Off-Nominal (@offnom) / Twitter Off-Nominal (@[e-mail]) - Spacey Space Follow Jake WeMartians Podcast - Follow Humanity's Journey to Mars WeMartians Podcast (@We_Martians) | Twitter Jake Robins (@JakeOnOrbit) | Twitter Jake Robins (@[e-mail]) - Spacey Space Follow Anthony Main Engine Cut Off Main Engine Cut Off (@WeHaveMECO) | Twitter Main Engine Cut Off (@[e-mail]) - Spacey Space Anthony Colangelo (@acolangelo) | Twitter Anthony Colangelo (@[e-mail]) - jawns.club 🐘 Off-Nominal Merchandise Off-Nominal Logo Tee WeMartians Shop | MECO Shop

CLS and go for main engine, start. Jake, it's another Thursday. Another Thursday. I brought a Canadian that you've never met. Oh, numbering you this time. It's good. And we did our homework, Jake. It's Trevor Chirlene.

If you're out there and you guessed that before you've heard this show, when you clicked on this and you said, I wonder how you pronounce that name. If you guessed Cherlene, you win DM me and I'll Venmo you a dollar or something. I don't know. You'll get me. Forget everything. Forget everything you know.

about the alphabet and how words are pronounced and letters are pronounced. You got it. You get pretty good. That must have been tough to learn when you were learning writing. I never actually thought about that. Yeah. Like when did I finally realize like yeah, my last name is kind of screwed up and everybody else is a normal name like Smith or Jones and KJ? It's like when I learned how to actually spell Gabba Ghul, I was blown away. I was like, what have I been lied to my whole life? It's unreal. Unreal. Gapagua. legitimate that's a legitimate story Jake it's not a I'm not I'm not screwing you I believe you yeah I believe you we've got orders of business we have great origin stories to tell you about Jake

we have Canadian achievements exclusively in the space realm not in the hockey realm to talk about we don't have those anymore you don't have them since I was two years old I think Is that the last time? Yeah. And mobile planetariums. We're going to talk about that, which is, I'm very, I have so many questions about setting this up. I'm so pumped. Nobody ever asks about the technical details of my mobile planetariums.

I've been waiting like two and a half years for this conversation. This is the show. This is it. This is it. Did you bring anything fun to drink from, well, you've been on the road. Maybe you picked some things up, but I don't know. Yeah, we were in Austria a couple weeks ago. My fiancé, she's like a real space person.

I'm sort of an amateur that fell into this. She's an astrophysicist. She's actually the outreach scientist for the James Webb Space Telescope here in Canada. So out of the two people in the household right now, you should really be talking to her, but you got me. So you got you got you got Plan B here. Yeah, we were in Austria for a conference, but we were back for a few weeks. Your question, though, okay, I don't think this is technically double-fisting. because one is zero percent.

But I was just at the grocery store. And this one says, I saw a loon, which of course means moon in French. And it says zero, Don Loon. And Jake, I know you speak some French, but like, I asked like my Kibokwa friend, like, what does that really translate to you? Like, Don Loon, like, in moon. Yeah, it's a little awkward, right? So that's that's a grammatically incorrect drink.

I like it. Yeah. It's good. Yeah. for my phonetically incorrect last name. Keeping it all on theme. It's all part of the theme. And then just an IPA here,

just in case we need to crack it open. So we'll see. Who do you got, Jake? I got a new, new bottle of mead that I opened yesterday. Yes. Look how dark this is. Hold on. Let me go.

That's the wrong one. Hold on. Where's the Jake only? Look at this. Wow. It looks like. gasoline. What is that? Yeah. So this is a, it's what's called a boucher. So before you ferment the honey, you caramelize it on the stove. So you cooked it for about an hour and it boils up and it caramelizes and it darkens a lot. And this one, this one went pretty dark. So I must have cooked it a little bit long. I almost burnt it, I think. I think I went just, just far enough to not burn it, which is cool. Is that what you want? Is that what you're looking for?

Not quite this far, but it worked. It worked out exactly because. then what I was trying to do with it was coffee flavor. So I put coffee beans in it for about eight hours in secondary fermentation. That's all it needed eight hours. And now it's like this like super chocolatey rich. It's something. It's pretty good. I'm pretty happy with it. Ungrounded beans. You just put the beans in. Just whole beans. Put them in eight hours and then take them right out. Yeah. They're just kind of soaking. Take them right out. As if you did not left them in there for an entire workday. Right out. Yeah. So it's, It's wild, man.

This is like one of the most interesting things. You know how like when you have a like a porter or a stout, like a really thick, like expensive, rich, dark chocolate beer? And it's like, you have one and you're like, now I need to like just sit back and not do anything for a week. It's like kind of has that kind of feeling. I guess it's really heavy and like, I don't know, it's special. I like it. I'm pretty happy with it. So, cheers.

It's still kind of cold here in Montreal. Like it's early May. Well, it's early May everywhere in the world. But it's like. It's like 6 degrees Celsius, which I think is like 40, 45 degrees, U.S.A. temperature. So I was thinking, yeah, should I get like a stout or a reporter? But, yeah, it's it's playoff season. So I kind of got to pace myself.

We lost last night. So Porter should be a little bit, a little bit heavy. I should have wore my glasses. It's another one of those days where I should have wore my glasses. We could just be. We could all look the same. Yeah. Live mine.

Damn it. Yeah, you've got the opposite temperature problem than me. We're in our heat wave down here in Mexico right now. So we're over 40 every day this week. So it's pretty spicy. Celsius roasting. Yeah, 40 Celsius. Talk amongst yourselves.

Yeah. I've had the air conditioning on since 6.30 this morning, and I'm like, I'm sweating in here. It's really hot. If you listen to the pre-show, it's more because of the electrical work that Jake was doing. Yeah, a little bit of that, too. but what does it say? My office is showing 26 degrees in my office still, so with the air conditioning on. Jake, I'm introducing my beer, but also a segue.

This is called a summer love, which some would use to describe Trevor and I's origin story. I feel like we had effectively a space nerd one-night stand in Nashville where we... Wow. I would never have put it that way, but okay, let's tell the story. and we'll let Jake decide if that was true. We were, this was Nashville solar eclipse trip. Was it the night before the eclipse or the night before the night before the eclipse? Yeah, let's crack this open.

Yeah. It is 0% and talk about this one night stand. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, so I think it was August 21st, 2017 was the solar eclipse and Nashville was in the path of totality. So I went there. and I think you put on Twitter or something just like, hey, I'm going to be in Nashville.

And if we ever wants to meet up for a drink, let's do it. I thought there'd be like a bunch of people there. This is not a dig against you, but it was you. It was me. And then it was your brother. Yep. And your dad. Yes.

And what's the name of the street on Broadway? What's the name? Broadway. Yeah. We were at a verifiable honky tonk on Broadway, for sure. We were. So I think you bought me a beer. So meeting your brother and your dad, gentlemen, all, really, including yourself.

And then, so we have a few drinks. I think there may have been like a live band playing. So it's a little bit loud and stuff like that. And then we finished our drinks and I offered, hey, I'll go grab the next round. So then I'm ordering and I get myself beers. Like your dad had like rum and coke or whatever, he drinks, whatever. And I'm paying. Yeah, that sounds right.

Yeah. And then as I'm paying out of the middle of nowhere, the entire bar just starts singing the national anthem. And like, like, loudly too. And like there wasn't there wasn't a sports game playing. Which anthem yours or his? No, this wasn't a Canadian meetup. Yeah. I should, yeah.

O say, can you see? Like it was, it was like sudden. Like it was like a torrent of just singing. I was super confused trying to pay. And then I finally come back. I think half with you the anthem. I see you and I'm like looking at you and I'm like, I forget what I said. I was like, is this normal?

Like, is this a normal thing to happen in, in America? I forget what your reaction was, but I think you like lightly tapped me on the shoulder and was like, yeah, welcome. Sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes it is. I don't know. You can't explain that what's going on.

Also, because, I mean, it was, it was, we were, because we were out all day. We went, we were just out hanging out in Nashville all day. So I had no idea what time was at that point. And I'm like, this feels normal. This feels like a thing that would happen for sure. So it was great. It was actually a good band. It was a fun time.

People were there. Like, there was a lot of people there for the eclipse that weren't necessarily space nerds, which was a fun interaction as well. Like, you know, just normally doing their thing. One of my favorite photographs, one of my favorite photographs I took from that trip was just like, it was the night before Broadway Street,

just like pack with people. But there was like every, I don't know, 20th person was some dude who obviously bought like 10,000 eclipse glasses and was just on the street, just carrying all these glasses, trying to sell them for five bucks each. And I just had this black and white photo I took of this dude just like hands up trying to sell these glasses. So yeah, it was, it was ruckus. Apparently, like, the population of Nashville had like doubled with tourists for that eclipse. Of course, the night before, it'd be busy.

The eclipse class is hawker is like a universal thing, I think. The same thing when I went to the annual eclipse in Mexico. The guy was in the breakfast room at the hotel was walking around selling them. Yeah. Well, we had the eclipse here in Montreal, and I did the same thing by mail. And so I was like just for weeks on end, just like packing and mailing off like about 10,000 eclipse classes. So I can't say I'm not guilty of doing that.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. You got lucky, though. You actually got to see the eclipse. I did. Yeah. The only other two people I know that were in Nashville.

were you that got clouded out, and then Lauren Grush, who almost did, but sprinted and made it to a cloudless spot in the park she was in or whatever. So, yeah. The screwed up thing about, you were just outside Nashville, yeah? Yeah, we drove to Gallatin,

so we were like a little bit north. I was on the center line. Yeah. You played it. Okay, you went to center line, yeah. So I was in Nashville, and I was standing at a hostel, and there's lots of people there for the hostels.

Like, international people. A guy came from, like, Australia and stuff, like people came, came far away. I went to the backyard of a bar and some of the people they went to like a baseball dime you just started singing the national anthem. You're like, I'll fit in.

Oh yeah, let's do this. Twelve hours ago, you guys were all into this. What now? And then like, you know, five or so minutes before, just like a single cloud came and just like blocked the view. And like, so disheartening. That was the second time I traveled for an eclipse once to none of it way up north in Canada.

And now that, oh, that. Nashville. Any place starts with N, not good for me on the eclipse, on the eclipse voyage, apparently. But then I got back to the hostel and I was assuming like everybody was just going to be like depressed, like, ah, that one cloud got us screwed us all. No, like everybody else like got to see it. The dude who's at the baseball diamond like two blocks away, apparently it only blocked for like 10 seconds or so. So I was like that close. I was like two fucking blocks away. And I made it. So. Yeah. But you've righted a wrong. Yeah, you got this one around.

Yeah, absolutely. How about Artemis too? Where do you feel like it was an eclipse? Where you're at? Jake's been gatekeeping this whole eclipse thing. Yeah, I was listening to that episode a couple weeks ago. Yeah. I mean, I find it fun that I know what the word occultation means.

So I, you know, I see your point. You get that vocabulary. You want to use it, right? You want to lord it over people. So that's an important, it's an important part of having vocabular. there is being right. It's a muscle you've got to flex, man. Of course.

I'd still call it an eclipse because it just sounds kind of cooler to say eclipse in space. I was wondering about that. Maybe we'd be able to find this out of like, Jeremy Hanson, the Canadian astronaut, I think during the 2024 eclipse, he was in Niagara Falls for an event on the Canadian side. And they got clouded out for that.

Maybe they had some clearness, but I think it was mostly clouded out. I'm wondering, is the first total solar eclipse he saw, the one that he saw in space? And I'm wondering that for all the other astronauts too. I kind of get the sense that it was because I feel like some of their descriptions,

it felt so similar to the way I felt about seeing it from Earth that I wonder if they had seen one from Earth, would they have compared it to what they saw? So I actually kind of do one, I feel a little bit bad about this. I'm like, where some of the spectacular things they were seeing just because it was an eclipse, not because they were also flying around the moon. And they just don't know that yet.

Yeah. Yeah. And I remember you describing the eclipse like a week or so after in Nashville of like you seeing, seeing like the planets. I forget which ones it was. Venus, Jupiter, Jupiter, Mars were all out. Maybe Saturn too. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah.

And the way you described it back then was like, like, it feels like you're part of like a neighborhood. Like you kind of get the sense that like it's, it's, yeah, like, like, you see everything at the same time. That's, yeah. Yeah, like you're inside of the solar system instead of just like looking up. At individual planets or, yeah, just one thing through your telescope, but you get this, you get the view that like Cassini did looking back, or Voyager did looking back. You get those, that feeling of like, oh, there's the sun and everything that hangs out with it.

Yeah, you can see it composed, right? So, yeah, it's right. And that's the thing they remarked on. But so I want them to go see an eclipse from Earth and then tell me like, it's pretty good though, right? Like I kind of want to take them to the one coming up in this summer or next and be like, it's pretty good from here too, right? Like, you don't have to go all the way out there. Yeah.

Like some things you'd lose out on is like the 360 degree sunset nature of. Yeah. I'm going to say an earth-based total solar eclipse now that we have to say that. Oh, man. That's a good world to be in. Yeah. Yeah. I would feel that way about people that have been on planes, though.

Because you don't get the weird bugs and the bird stuff that goes on with one on the ground, right? Like, I kind of feel like it wouldn't be as good in a plane. But you get a different thing on a plane, though, right? Because you get the whole, like, you can see the entire shadow, like, move across the landscape and things like that, right? There's different novel effects there. And you can get an hour of it or whatever they did on the Concord. Yeah, you can fly along with it. Yeah, and get it for a long time.

Yeah. Pretty good. The first eclipse I went to was in Nashville, Nunavit. They're so similar, Nashville and Nunavit. Yeah, I'm sure. Culturally very similar. The crew I was with, absolutely.

The crew I was with, they, I say crew, making it sound like I'm an astronaut. I like it. Roll with it. Roll with it. They're eclipse chasers. And so like, we kind of knew that it was mostly going to be cloudy. There was like a meteorologist there.

So their backup plan was to rent a small plane and watch it from there. We'd just stay on the ground. It was clouded out and stuff like that. Yeah, they went up and like they took a video of that. And like they had to time how much time each person was going to get at the window because there was only like four windows, but eight people. And like he kind of got out, okay, I want to get these shots. But the video, the audio of it just sounds very, gosh, debauchrous.

I don't know. Horgast, I'm sorry. It sounded very just the way they were freaking out. I was like, okay, this must have been really cool. Yeah, yeah. Even really there. That's the word. Sorry, yeah.

That's what I was looking for. Yeah. Geez, I'm digging a hole here. Taking a hole here. I love it. Well, do you have any upcoming eclipse plans for on the topic of the eclipse? No. We just traveled with a toddler to Europe and that's just awful.

You know what to think about for a little while? Travel years off your life. I was going to say if you want to travel with a toddler again, you could also add on my two kids and we'll all go across. We're, Jake and I are going to go to Spain for the 2027 one. So we've been, we've been peeping some spots. So we could be, we could be the crew. This could be our crew. So there's one in 2020, new crew.

We'll make shirts and patches and stuff. There's one in 2020. Yeah. And then it's like Iceland for a minute. Yeah. I was going to, I was going to go. And then I was like, there's a thousand percent chance. This is clouded out.

One minute long in Iceland. Like, this is going to be very expensive. And then my wife. going to not want to go the following year that's going to be great because it's several minutes long in a beautiful location like Spain in the summer. Yeah. And I think the angle that it's in the sky in 2026 is quite low if you're in Spain. Like it's like 15 degrees or something like that. So, so yeah, good call next year. Yeah. It's going to be cool. It's going to be a great one. It's going to be a great one. Clipses are awesome. And then it's Australia. They get they get one like we've had in North America for the last couple of years. They get one in 2028. Is that? Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to think about that way, though. Trevor and I are terrified of that flight, Jake.

We're never going to do that in the near future. Just start saving your pennies so you can buy the big seats. We're actually going to charter a plane together and fly there. There you go. There you go. I did it once in my early 20s and I lost my glasses in the first, like, hour of it. It's like a, gosh, 13 hours for something like that. You know, you like...

It's not that many places to look, man. Where did they go? I know exactly. That was so confounding with the entire thing. And so for like 12 hours or so the flight, like you have the screen, we have to like go like way up like this. I'm super blind. And then the last like 30 minutes, I get like a tap on my shoulder. Hey, are these yours? Some guy like just found them and didn't know. Anyways, that was my introduction to Australia. So many years ago. I did a long haul flight once to China. And I had a similar experience.

my AirPods because I had like the eye mask on with the elastic strap and I pulled it off and it caught the bottom of the AirPods and one of my AirPods went like 17 rows like down the plane and I had to like go and like tap on people. It was like you know, it's like the middle of the flight is dark and when sleeping and I was like, oh, do you see my earpon? It was not fun. It was not good thing. That's nuts. All right. We got to get so you called your fiance an actual space person. And you, a man who's worked at the Canadian Space Agency, not an actual space person. And I would like to rectify what the hell happened between the time that you were so inspired in Nashville when you heard the American National Anthem and thought, I have to get into the

space industry. How did that kick off your whole journey into the space industry? Yeah, yeah, you kind of caught me like literally at the, like, a transition point in my life. So this is Trevor Chuline's life in a couple of minutes. So like into space since I was a kid, 1995, if Apollo 13 didn't come out, where would I be? Oh, where would any of us be, really? So into space since I was a kid. And then I really got into like computers and like I became like a real big Apple guy, you know.

I call it a Macintosh. I don't call it Macintosh. Just got really into like web design and video. And so that was my career for 10, 15 years or so. I moved to Montreal in 2012, and I think the first steps to me, like, getting to where I am is, like, a plane. I was coming back in, landing into Montreal, and I was seated on the left-hand side of the plane, just about to land, and then I look at the window, and I look on the horizon, there's this big red thing that's, like, coming up. I'm like, what, what's that? It took me a moment, like, oh, that's the moon.

Like, that's the moon rising on the horizon. Of course, like, the moon looks big. it looks red whenever it's low on the horizon. I'm like telling passengers like, hey, look, look, look, look at the moon. It's rising. It's rising. And like at that moment, I was like, wow, it's like a one in a million shot that that would happen.

Like, what are the odds that the moon would be rising? I'm seated on the correct side of the plane to be able to see it. And the timing worked out. And I'm like, this is never going to happen to anybody ever again. Like, this is it. And then, like, I thought for a moment of like, well, wait, if they know what time the the sun rises, they probably know what time the moon rises. and so I like went home.

The builder group, yeah. Big moon, yeah, big moon probably. Big moon. So I Google, I'm like, moon rise? I'm like, oh, they do know when the moon rises. Question mark. This is that. So like a month later, the next full moon, I went up.

So you actually got some results. Yeah. There's only three ads above the fold at that point. So now it's, yeah. So then. the next month, I went up to Montreale, the mountain in the middle of Montreal, and like, it looks east. And like, I saw it had the time. And I'm like, okay, let's see if this works, and thereby myself. And then like, bam, it like showed up. And I'm like, it worked. It worked.

Like, I can't believe that like this whole. It worked. The timetable I looked up. It works. Like a like a Doc Brown back to the future sort of, sort of, yeah, euphoric. religious moment. And I was like shocked at that moment of like, how come there's not like a zillion people up here watching this? Like this is so cool. It looks red. It looks big. And like, of course, as it did come up, people started like taking photos of it.

And like, I could, I could do something with this. I could like, I wasn't even capitalized on it. The world needs to know. Yeah. Yeah. So I just, I, this is 2013. See, that's when you started your flat earth rehabilitation program, right? Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Because it sounds like. Flat Earth is Anonymous. This is the group that you were running before this. And you're like, let's just go to this mountain, man. Like, the timetable's true.

Yeah. That's what they want you think. Big fan. Big fan. I fan. So then I just, the next month I, like, posted on Reddit, like, hey, I'm going to go up. We'll start. We'll walk up.

Bring a few beers. And we're going to watch the moonrise. And like, I don't know, 30 people came. And it's just doing this for free, just for fun. And, like, meeting people is super rad. And then just did this for a few years, but like, wasn't really still doing web design and video at this point. I said I was going to do the short version of my life.

I feel I'm getting... It's a great story. Keep going. This is fun. I like this. I did this for a few years. Boring. Boring.

Boonrises. Boring. Did this for a few years. And then like, doing my web design job, I was like, this is not it. Like, if I keep on doing this, I'm just going to become like a project manager or something like that. Like this... And it's 2015.

It's 2016. SpaceX is landing boosters. You could tell sort of something was like, the industry was, space felt like it was really exciting. The industry's cooking and you're at home making, making cards and buttons, just questioning all your life choices.

Jake, I was too, man. All right. Some of us weren't a manager already at this point, Jake. Okay. I remember like watching a landing on my iPad in bed slumped over like this and just like, see it land. I'm like,

this is amazing. How come I'm not a part of this? And like, just this, like, gnawing feeling of like, I should be involved in this somehow. And I don't know how to do it. Then my friends, they had a baby. And a few months before that, they got gifted a telescope. And so this telescope was just sitting in their closet, just rusting away. And they're like, we're never going to be able to use this.

Layla, our child is just, she's killing us. So, like, can you take the telescope? Like, a free telescope? Sure. And then that night, like the moon wasn't out, but this is 2017. and like Jupiter and Saturn at that time were like both in the sky kind of near each other. And just like I think I'd look through telescopes before, but never on my own. And like I pointed to Jupiter, easy to find.

And like you see the four moons beside it. And you're like in the middle of the city. And just that was just blow away. But you could do that. Looked at Saturn. You could see the rings of Saturn. And then I just started bringing the telescope to the park. And then people ask like, hey, what are you looking at?

Looking at the moon. Look at the planets. And then eventually you'd start getting lines forming at the park. And yeah. And so then eventually I just started bringing it into the street, had a proper table. Somebody asked, hey, where's your tip jar? And I'm like, good idea. And then next time I'm like, shit, is this how is this?

And yeah, from there, just started like kind of making the workshops where going up and watching the moon rise, making a little bit more formal instead of just like, hey, let's bring beers and watch the moon. Like, okay, let's show them how to use the solarium. Let's show them why the direction of the moon changes throughout the year. Just like things that like questions I had that I think the audience was also going to have. I just found that like super thrilling. Anyways, just kept on snowballing, snowballing, snowballing, snowballing, COVID hit, had to do live streams, 2020. And then eventually I started working at the Space Agency, Canadian Space Agency,

22 to 2023 in communications. was there for a year. I can talk about that a little bit more, but now I'm... Huge jump. Like, I took peers up a mountain and watched the moonrise. Just started working at the Canadian Space Agency. Like, all right, sure. Like, no backstory on that.

There was nothing. You just were like, it's just a job, you know, just making buttons. Yep. But then 2020, 2023... Were you a project manager at the Canadian Space Agency? Because that would be my favorite if you were, like, talking shit about being a project manager and then worked at the space agency as a project manager. I'll talk with the CSA, sure.

Yeah. So, like, the Montreal and the space agency, even people from Montreal don't know this. A lot of Canadians don't even know we have a space agency. Like, you have to tell people, or people will ask you, like, does Canada have a NASA? That's the way they phrase it. So I tell them like, yeah, I guess we kind of do. It's just outside Montreal in Longhai. So like a 20, 30 minute drive away.

And so, yeah. they're stationed right there. So started working there. I was in communications. So basically that means taking videos, editing videos, taking photos. Yeah, helping to run events. And yeah, there would be days when the astronauts would come and had to videotape them and edit their footage, attach lapel mics to Jeremy Hanson and do some fact checking in real time while doing the recording the video. So, yeah, it was...

All right, what's the best fact check you ever did? We're going to be on YouTube. Jeremy Hanson, exposed. What did he get wrong? He's like, it wouldn't be really an eclipse if you saw it from the moon. You were like, well, actually. There's a really cool word you're going to learn called occultation.

I think it was... This was before that he was announced as... As, for in the Artemis, 2, crew. But the active astronauts we had at the time, David St. Jacques, him, Joshua Kutrick, and Jenny Gibbons. He'd been selected in 2009. And so it was like, what, at that point, 13 years that he'd been selected as astronaut. And the other astronauts, Joshua and Jenny, had been five, six years since they were selected. So you kind of had a sense of like who it's, which Canadian was going to fly.

And then we were doing like a, I guess it was December. So we were doing like a Christmas message. Happy Holidays from the Canadian Space Agency. Canada's NASA. And we're talking about Apollo 8 and like their message, the Christmas message. And then Jeremy was talking and like the line said something Christmas Eve. And like he stopped halfway. He's like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Was it actually Christmas Eve? And so we like, I looked through there and looked through there. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like I think he was trying to look if it was UTC time. If it was still Christmas Eve, that's just how his brain, their brain's their brains work. It's not where Santa lives. I looked on my, I looked on my phone. I had my iPhone 10.

And then he's like, can I look at that? And like, I'm going to be handing my phone to a guy that's going to probably fly around them and I'm like, hand it to him. He looks at it. Okay, that's good for me. I put it like back and I'm like, oh, my God. What do I do with this phone? So.

Sell it. Yeah. Moments like that. Really. No, I'll probably use it as my webcam eventually. So, yeah. So just like really cool, really cool moments like that. So I've got a few of those types of stories.

So yeah. And then you were like, I'm taking it back to the streets. I'm going to build planetariums? It's so like I was before, I used to do video production and stuff like that. Yeah, CSA like those, there. would be days like that that were just like amazing. But I could totally tell that like I kind of was itching to go full time back to my own sort of stuff. And I just think somebody else would be better suited. Like you should have like a more, I'm passionate about this thing and I should

probably be the most passionate about that. And there's probably somebody else out there who's also would be passionate in this role. It's not fair for me to have that that role when somebody else could probably be more passionate there. So but I was there during like a super interesting time. like they announced the crew. We changed the space agency logo at the time. So you had to like change all that stuff. The queen died during our role there. So we had to like change all like her majesty to like his majesty.

So that was like a week long project of changing all like the video title cards and stuff like that. Yeah. Anthony's losing your mind right now. I was like one week. You guys are doing so little that it takes one week. We've got like meatball logos out there. for that it's never going to change, you know? We've got...

We've got facilities that have never been touched. Wait, are you saying a week is a long time or a short time? No, a short. I'm saying you guys, you got to put more out in the world, you know? Oh, okay. Or just leave the freaking Commonwealth and be your own goddamn country. You know?

It's fine if you want to be like that. That's why you'll always be... You're going to start singing the... You're going to start singing your national anthem here in a second. Me and Jake just got to sit here and take it. I mean, America will never have a CSA. You know what I mean? There's never an America's CSA.

It's all I'm saying. But yeah, so it was an interesting time. And so then I went to like an astronomy, what was it called? Like an astronomy teaching conference. And I knew that I still really like teaching people, giving presentations and schools. So learn some things. And then I met these people. that we're talking about their mobile planetarium domes.

And like, have you guys ever been in a mobile planetarium dome, like as a kid or anything like that? I remember going to one in maybe second or third grade, like in the gym. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. Jake, did they have that in the 403 area code? No. No, no, no. We just did the stupid game where they have the big parachute in the gym and you go like this.

Oh, yeah. In a big circle. Yeah, that's the only game we could afford. It's like a liberal's planetarium. Yeah. you go underneath it and you all, you know, talk about your feelings. Yeah. I assume, listen, my planetarium experience, that was probably, if it was third grade, that was like late 90s.

So I assume that that was absolute shit compared to the resolution you've got now in this thing. Yeah. So, yeah. Well, let's get into some of the tech stuff. I'll just, I'll finish this. So, like, I met those people and then, like, they said that they go into schools and, like, bring their dome there. And I'm like, that sounds super cool. And then I started looking into the cost of it.

And there are companies out there that have like fully baked things. You buy the dome from them. You buy the projector, the projector lens, the software, all the things like that. And like the first prices I was looking at was like for a complete thing. It was like 40 to 50,000 USD. I was like, holy crap. Like that's, I don't know what my expectations were. But like that was going to be looking at out of my reign.

Then I went to a conference. It's called Lips, Live Interactive Planetarium Symposium. And basically it's people who like do not just like press a movie in the dome and then have that play. It's like doing a presentation in the dome and kids ask questions and you can like change with the software what you show. And I met these people that are like, oh, you can actually do a dome like way cheaper. Like not 50,000. We're talking like maybe for four or five thousand. and you could get a dome underway.

And this was just a few months after I left the space agency. I'm like, okay, I think this is like the new thing. Trevor's like new, a little enterprise he's going to do here. So, yeah, I bought a dome. And for a couple thousand, I already had, oh, there we go. Is this the dome? Okay, cool. That's my house.

That's my house. That's my house. That just reminds me of the old Starship carbon fiber tank. That's what that looks like to me. That's that same photo. Yeah, so ordered that. There's some, like, shiny suppliers out there, and you can get it for a couple, like, 2000 or something like that.

It's inflatable. You can see the orange fan right there. Yeah. The blower. So that's the thing about this. If you open the door, it starts to deflate. So you need to, like, get the kids in and out quickly. It's like, that's like the most terrible.

part of the job is like you have 20, 25, 6 year olds who are excited, but some are scared and like you have the door open and you're inside and it's dark and you've got a headlamp on. Come in here, little kid. Come in here. And I've got Brian Eno music playing and stuff like that. And it's like slowly compressing around them. So you got to do it like in like in groups. So like two or three groups like five or six kids at a time like open the door, coming in.

zip, let it inflate a little bit, then to the next group, next, next group. But yeah, so anyways, bought the dome. And then the projection system, I already had a projector lying around. I already had a MacBook Air, like a really like first gen M1 MacBook Air. Like I already had it going.

The thing I had to do was build like a mirror box. Because if you just use a regular projector, like it's just going to be rectangle. I'm like, that's not a show. That's that's that's that's you in a black igloo with like a round pangle for a video. Yeah. So the way that you get it to go like in every direction is, um, you project onto what we call a spherical mirror. So basically it's like you've probably seen like those security mirrors that are like sometimes like in the corner of like a ceiling in like a convenience store or something.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's kind of like that. It's a little bit specialized. is because it doesn't have any glass on it. So you don't get that ghosting effect, but we're just talking basics here.

So you just point your projector at that. And then it goes in every direction. And then in the software, you put in a warp file. So it just sort of distorts it in just the right way that it all looks correct in front of you and behind you. And so, like, yeah, on the cheap, like, it works amazingly well.

And so that's sort of been my gig for the last. two or so two years in a bit so yeah it's it's a lot of fun okay is this is this an accurate weird version of this depiction that I'm finding on the internet like is this what you're talking about you're having a projector off a mirror into a spherical mirror is that what's going on here yeah precisely yeah so I'll so you have the projector there and one way you can do it is this makes for a great audio podcast actually so yeah so basically sometimes you like to push people YouTube, obviously. So yes, this is great.

Yeah. Basically, you have that spherical mirror, and you could just point the projector straight at the spherical mirror, and that would totally work, but that would take up a lot of space in the planetarium. So basically that secondary flat mirror is basically just like cut the distance in half. This is the Smith-Casegrane version of this planetarium software, rather than what would be traditionally a Dobsonian version that would be a much longer physical telescope. Is this what we're talking about? Fold the focal link.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. I figured this would connect with you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.

I guess that would be it. Yeah. And then the software, I just use free software, like Stellarium, which you've probably heard of. There's like the desktop version and the mobile version using the desktop version. And then another great, awesome piece of software that I'm like, it should get way more praise than it does. It's called a guy.

sky. So the Gaia mission, so Gaia space sky. And basically, it's not ground-based like Stellarium is, where you're looking up at the stars. Basically, you can go around the solar system. Exactly. And you can load in different datasets. So if you want to load in different, like a sea, all the exoplanets that we've discovered, and you can fly to them. If you want to load in different galaxies, catalogs. You can do that there too. Yeah. So I use this for my domes, my dome shows. I'm like, it's awesome. And it's like one developer,

it seems, in Europe somewhere, whenever I like add an issue to the queue within like a couple minutes, he's like usually replying. And in like a day or two, he's usually got like code handwritten that's like ready to go. So like, if you haven't checked up the software, like, please, please do. Guys, guys, guys, just like amazing. Like, yeah.

It looks great. Awesome. So you're hireable by people at schools, is what you're telling me. Plug some shit, Trevor. We probably have people in your target market. Plug some shit, for Christ sake. Jesus Christ. Yeah. So I'm, wow, he's really getting violent here. So how did you find out about me? Well, Jake, or Anthony was swearing at you. I bullied you into contacting Trevor. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, I'm in Montreal and like I'm, I drive a few hours away. So like, Ottawa, Quebec, city,

Sherbrook. I don't go to the States right now. That would just be kind of hard. And morally. You too. I'm not going to do that.

This is why we won't send the Stanley Cup back for reference. Hey, how are the flyers doing? Are they down two games? We looked good in overtime the other night.

All right. Yeah. We're above expectations. All sports is about performance versus expectations. And we're in the positive. So it's okay. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So like it's a busy time of year right now, but like next school year, like still like taking bookings for that. So basically just set up in the school gym. It takes like an hour and some change to set it up. 30 minutes per show. And about 20, 25 kids can come in. English and some not perfect French I can present in.

And yeah, it's about like eight or ten classes. And since French or what? Okay, I'll speak to that. So, so, so they, their French has actually gotten like a lot better, like, pretty much Josh Kutricks and Jeremy. So like, they would have to do all of the videos in English and in French. And like, yeah, you can like see it. It's like massively improved over time.

My French, I've lived here for like 14 years, coming up on 14 years. my French is still not great. In Montreal, it's like you can live a pretty anglophone life here. Yeah, you don't need to learn a lot of French in Montreal. Yeah. So I've accidentally found myself in that. I do speak enough that I can like give presentations and stuff. But, but no, like seeing Jeremy and Joshua, like, their French has gotten like a lot better.

And like, it was super cool when he was like answering questions during the mission in, in French during that. And like I remarked to like, wait a minute, this is probably the furthest from earth that French has ever been spoken. And so any, any non-English language. This is what, this is what I was telling Anthony is like, that's like, there's weird cultural things about Artemis II that are like going to be really, really important to Canadians that he's, like, Americans are just not going to get, but it's just like answering a question and switching between English and French. Like, it doesn't get much more Canadian than a government an employee doing that on camera, you know?

Like, that's just like such a, like, idiomatic Canadian thing that, like, I can't even describe how, how, like, patriotic that feels, even though it's, like, kind of silly. Like, you know? Can you think of some others, Jake? Like, my mind comes to me as, like, like, like,

maple syrup. It's, like, kind of a Canada trope, but, like, other ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I mean, I think, Anthony I joked that there'd be, if there was a land acknowledgement, that'd be pretty funny.

we don't know what it would look like, but you could theoretically do one because you talked a lot about the, you know, grandmother moon and stuff, right? So at the CSA, they did like some, some live events during the mission.

And on one of them, they had a First Nations elder come in and like, obviously they did in English. They did it in French. And then like, like, he spoke in, I don't know what tongue it was, but like for gosh, five, six, seven minutes.

It was a long time. No subtitles. It kept going. Yeah. Yeah. There was a part of it was like, I kind of wish I knew what you were saying, but I'm like, you know, I know that it's important to Jeremy. And like, so like, that's good.

Like, do that. And then he gave like a little speed at the summarize. So basically what I just said is X, Y, Z. Yeah. All that. So that was a, that was really cool. Yeah. Yeah.

Any other things like Canada wise for you during the, the, the, the mission. Maybe the American. Maybe you. Did it's like, you notice anything? Specifically, Canadian things that happened? Yeah. Hmm. I think technically the way that we hung the flags was against the flag code of the United States of America. Because was the Canadian one on the left? Is that one? On the left, an equal height. I think we broke flag code. Oh, okay.

You were outside jurisdiction, though, right? It's like international waters. They were also doing sports betting on the way. Yeah, also flag code may be one of the most violated codes in the U.S. Yeah, who gives a shit, right? Yeah, I think violating the flag code is a Supreme Court defended right that we have. You can go on Amazon and buy a bikini made out of an American flag. For sure.

For sure. For sure it's fine. I think above those two flags, it said like 250. Yeah, the America 250 logo is up there. Yeah, it's a big year. So, yeah. I mean, I think the other thing There wasn't a lot of like, yeah.

Well, just like the not stuff that's like specifically Canadian, but like sort of the rights, like the rituals you get to do when you go to the moon that we've only ever seen Americans do. Like just having the prime minister call the crew is like, oh yeah, that's like obviously the president called every crew and that's like a normal thing. But it's like now our guy gets to do it. And it's like it's not like a special thing, but the fact that it was, you know, us and not them kind of cool.

Even though that call, that call did not go very well, but technically, technically. Yeah. Well, less awkward silence than the one with our guy. That was hilarious.

I did find Jeremy's like his veiled political statements were excellently done. Like his, when they were talking to Trump and they were talking to other events, he had like such a good line on

hey, we're better when we work together. and we're doing these things together. We appreciate the flight. And also it's better when you have teammates. He threaded a line very eloquently in a way that I didn't know how much it would come up on the flight or how much they would touch on the tensions and like the reason you two won't come to the fucking United States right now.

But he did a great job with that. I thought it was awesome. Yeah. Makes me wonder how much he was coached on that. That's a very interesting question. Yeah. That's true. there was

like on my social media like I made some some some some some some clips up front about Jeremy and stuff and so like one of the things is when he was selected in 2023 this is Bill Nelson era and so like he's

Jeremy's Bill Nelson is saying a lot of Bill Nelson and then Jeremy gets to take the microphone and then what was he say like America is sort of at its best when I can like lift up other countries like okay you guys could totally go on your own. Like that was totally on the plate for you guys. That was a total option.

But it's like you decided to like be a leader, if this is say you want to find leader, be a leader and like bring other nations with you. And like I remember clipping that and like this is, I forget what incident was going on with your president. I like, I got to put this. I got to put this out there. So more than one are you thinking of? Yeah.

I mean, how could you get lost in that long of a list? I think it was maybe a greenland. or 51st state thing. And it's like, okay, true leadership is, you know, yeah. Anyways, I don't want to derail this about politics and stuff like that. I'll sing the national anthem. Don't you tempt me. Right now.

This, I was thinking about this early today. This is sort of like a little bit of a tangent, but it's about Artemis 2. So they had the iPhones with them. And they had laptops with them, but they weren't, they weren't Macs. They looked like, I don't know what they, or tablet, something, something with them. How did they transfer them? for the photos from the phone to send them back home. Did they like have to plug in the iPhone into the tablets to take them off the device?

Because you couldn't air drop it to what looked like some almost proprietary looking tablet. But do you know how they did that? They had to fire up iTunes, yeah. Honestly, maybe. iTunes for Windows and they fired that up there. God, drag and drop. Back up this device. But how do you think

they did that? Like, I'm trying to, I could, hopefully I can like get to ask them a question one day. I'm like, out of all the questions I can ask about, the majesty of spaceflight. What happens when you plug an iPhone into a Windows machine is what you're going to ask, Artem's two crew?

You can do this. Well, I just want to know, I want to know how they like physically read. Right now. Get the Jeremy and say an iPhone out and plug it into a Windows machine. but is that how they did it or did they like wirelessly trans like did they do they do they have a like i think they basically used the iPhone as an fd card yeah you think it was bluetooth they definitely didn't email it to themselves no interference at all they emailed it they didn't send it to christina's outlook i think uh hers was busted yeah that didn't work

Very well. I did love how much regular tech stuff they had to sort out. And maybe that's how it felt in the 60s. Like, oh, yeah, their stuff breaks just like the stuff that I have because it's built with the same technology. But we've never had that comparison for our generation to, you know, we always are advanced tech people. But it was just good.

They were like working out the same shit we were. It was very unbranded for like the whole like, oh, you can land a guy on the moon where you can't do it. point or you can't do a video call or you can't do a zoom can't make outlook work yeah I think it was early on the flight either like day one or something like that and if you ever look at like the PDF of like their their schedule like their 10 days schedule is like color coded and there's just like so much stuff to do and a lot of it was like nat geo national geographic stuff so they're like shooting some documentary stuff um and like one of the first things to do is

I think it was Jeremy, like, trying to talk to Capcom being like trying to get these settings on a GoPro right. And like frustratingly like for like 15 minutes, trying to like the settings aren't being saved and stuff like that. That sort of chatter was really cool. Then I saw like a story last night or today that like they had one of the cameras not shooting in raw. It was shooting in JPEG the entire time. Oh, no. Brutal. Yeah.

Think about all that lost data. Yeah. Yeah. All those lost bits. saving the file size, though, you know, they were packing more photos on that SD card. Absolutely. It would have been funnier if they were like, oh, shit, I had the iPhone on H-E-I-C, and it's like, I can't, I can't view it on any of our other devices.

Okay, yeah, Christina, we read you from Houston. Can you go to H-E-I-C-2-J-G.com? Just upload it there, and they'll swap it over for you. It'll be fine. Yeah. good stuff tech problems tech problems good mission um so yeah yeah and and and so like the planetarium shows i've i've i've done like uh when i first started it was like

just before the solar eclipse we had here in montreal so like with the planetarium i could like show what the the eclipse was going to look like and like critically like teach the kids when they could take off their eclipse classes because for some reason this is just like very difficult for adults and teachers to teach to youngsters. I think they just assume we need to have the glasses on at all time, but having them practice in the dome with that. But then also showing the kids in advance what this mission was going to look like. And so one of the things I was like really happy with the dome shows that I was doing

was showing them what Earth set and Earthrise was going to look like in advance. So like in the guys guys software, you can like show what the path of the mission was was going to take and show them like, oh, the moon, sorry, the moon will block out the earth and it's going to set this way. But now, like, post-Artus 2, being in the dome and showing all the great photos and stuff like that. And, yeah, those shows are really, really fun to do now. Very few kids knew about this mission before any of it launched.

Like, even, like, days before I was doing Planetarium shows. I'm like, do you guys know what Artemis 2 is? And, like, maybe there'd be one kid, but, like, the vast majority were, like, I have no idea. teachers included, principals included. First shows, like, coming back, like, every kid knew. And that was really, really cool. Anthony, I know that you said that, like, you gave presentations to your kids grade one class or something like that. He's like pre-school, yeah.

Yeah. Same deal. Nobody knew at all. He was the only one that was going in, like, they're going to the moon soon. And they were all like, what are you talking about? Yeah. Not that weird kid is talking about the moon again. I know.

He's so cursed. And like, I don't know, it's like, is that something we're just going to have to come to, like, to peace with of like, like, Artemis 3? I want to know what it was like in the 60s. I really want to know because, like, honestly, like, there was also a lot going on in 1968. And I'm curious if you just like, you know, if you went to a random American in like November of 1968 and be like, are you excited for Apollo 8? and like how many would be like what are you talking about like you know like I mean it's different because they had they had pre flights with people right they had you know uh seven and just seven right seven was the only one that had with people on it yeah yeah seven was the only one that had flight with people on it

but he still had a little bit and I don't know space race was a different context but I'm just I'm curious about because we all we all see it from from way back you know and it's like just different perspective right I'm really curious about that I forget if it was you guys but Somebody mentioned this of like cadence mattering of like the time between Apollo 8 and 70 and Apollo 17 was like about the same amount of time as Artemis 1 to Artemis 2. 1 2. 3 and 3 years in a couple of months. Like it was like almost very, very, very close to each other. And like would obviously you can kind of get tired of like tired of seeing missions like happening every every six months, eight months. or something like that. Like, how pumped were we when we were, like, seeing the first SpaceX boosters landing? Like, I would, I would, like, watch those launches and those booster landings, like,

probably the first 10 or so. And after the 10th one, you're like, yeah, they're probably going to nail it. And so you kind of stop watching it. Maybe the same thing with Apollo back then, too, by about Apollo. I was going to say Apollo 13, but then everybody kind of got back into it, I suppose. But, yeah, I wonder what we could. kind of got to do differently for Artemis 3 to get kids and the general population, like, excited for it? Or if it's just a thing where it's like...

No, I think embrace this. Embrace this cycle. Like, this shit is hard to do. And it turns out we have exactly the amount of time from when we launch to when we get to the moon to get everyone hyped. That's what we learned on this mission, was that's the perfect amount of time of like, we did TLI, and now we know what time to tell everyone to tune in, ramp up the outreach to 11, we've got two days to do this. And it works. It works. If you do interesting stuff and you can actually tell them when it's going to happen, that's how you get attention. I think all these systems are too fickle to actually count on, right? Even like get the kids pumped for the next Starship launch. When are you going to tell them to tune in? I don't know. Like probably sometime

between May 12th to 18th, maybe. They haven't said yet. And then even when they do say, you're like, probably today, but it might be the day after or the day after that about the same time in the launch window and you're like, well, this became a thing that now I have to do homework to tune in. I'm not doing this. I love it. I love, I'm, I have a total convert that I thought it was bullshit that no one knew going in the mission. And then I realized, nope, this is the perfect amount of time. TLI to, to, because think about, all right, let's, let's play this forward. Think about getting people excited for a Mars mission. Like, get pumps. We're launching this thing. And then like, don't talk about it for three months to six months. Like, whatever, depending on

We're talking about it to the next president. Yeah. Like, what? So we're not going to talk about that. Like, you're not going to go out there every day and say to everyone you meet at all times. People are on their way to Mars right now. Next day. People are on their Mars are now.

Three months later. People are on their way to Mars right now. Four months later. People are on their way to Mars right now. Like, you're going to be excited about launch and then you're going to be excited where we're getting close to getting to Mars. But that middle time is going to suck. Yeah.

I remember feeling like physically and mentally exhaust. at the end of Artemis 2, like posting those 10 days, I'm like, there's no way you keep this up for two goddamn years for a Mars mission. All the way there and back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And even like, they don't even think about Mars.

I think about like Artemis, what, four. Let's go even further down the line, Arnest 7 or 8 when they're like, let's say we have a base there and they're staying for two weeks or an entire lunar month or something like that. So the mission in itself is like six weeks. you can't keep up that hype for the same level of Artemis 2 hype for six entire weeks. Just look at an ISS mission, right? Right. Who even knows about them?

Yeah. I think we, our space nerds, are too fixated on generating domination levels of hype. And I think about stuff like, you know, last weekend was the Kentucky Derby. Like, no one in the horse racing community is annoyed that none of us know about the Kentucky Derby in the week leading up to it. but everyone seems to care about it for like three hours on that Saturday every year. And it's like, that's a horse thing? At least the hats,

yeah. Yeah. The hats and the drinks and the people are singing the anthem as always like, but. The spontaneous national anthem. But it's fine. Even like college basketball, like nobody really talks about college basketball outside of the March Madness tournament.

And it's fine. Like that's, that's the place that it holds in society. And if, if we're just, lucky that we have such a predictable flight path for these missions that we can launch and then know specifically now this thing happened so we can get everyone excited about the really interesting part of the mission and just that it like all the other parts of the mission are for us and then

just the special moments can be for everybody else it's fine I think it was a two or three weeks ago when you had Kelsey Young on and I think either her or one of you mentioned it like just how supremely lucky we got with the prime time slot, not just for launch, there's that, but then all like other really cool interesting bits, like the LOS, that happened in prime time for North America. So the two countries that were sending people there. Return, that wasn't happening at like four in the morning. All these events happened correctly.

So even though we had those delays, which sucked, I think if he launched in February, we would not have had the same type of public reaction. for this mission. So kind of a blessing. Blessing there. Yeah. Nailed it. Boom. Yeah. Trevor, this is great to hang out. We should have talked more than never between now and August of 2017. So I'm glad that we finally did.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Happens. I'm curious now who we're going to meet in 2027 that we'll have on the show in 2026. Yeah. What's the honky tonk situation in the. part of Spain. Yeah. You got to brush up on the Spanish national anthem. Yeah.

That's true. That's a great point. What are you all singing? It's like, it's the anthem. Oh, okay. That's great point. That's funny. Trevor, where do we go to see all your stuff?

What's the, what's the handles? What's the websites? Yeah. So if you go to plateau astro.com, So that's my website. So if you want a planetarium show, your school in Quebec, you can go there. I do presentations too. So I go into schools and it's not just the planetarium.

So if you want to learn, you know, why we have seasons, how to build an Earth moon scale model, all that sort of stuff. And then just at the go down way to the bottom, you'll find my social media right there. Yeah. And an RSS feed because I'm old school like that. Hell yeah. I love RSS. We're big RSS fans on this show. RSS.

RSS. That's the RSS. That's the anthem. Yeah, that's it. That's funny. Cool. This is awesome. It was great.

Hell yeah, man. Yeah, great to find the media. And we didn't even talk about 780403 area codes. No, no, we didn't. And the other one, there's a third one now, isn't there? there's been one for a while just for cell phones just for cell phones

all right thanks so much guys for have me yeah man Jake I don't know that we have anything to plug for next week yet I've sent a few emails that I didn't tell you about and we're going to see if one of them pans out I'm very delinquent on my email right now there's like eight unread pitches for shows

in my email right now and I need to action all right well one of those is happening next week people yeah if you emailed me if you emailed me If you emailed me in the last two months about a show, you might get a reply sometime in the next 40 hours. You might be coming on next week. I'd notice I didn't do the split flap segment today, Jake, because there's nothing on it right now. There's just a big blank space.

We've got a few things, but not for next week. All right, y'all. We'll see you later. Bye. Thanks, everyone. Bye. One, two, three, four, five, five, four, three, two, one, end of death.