Off-Nominal - 29 - Go Full Goldin

Episode Date: April 14, 2020

Jake and Anthony take on a long-standing debate: worm or meatball? The NASA Worm is back, so in honor of that, we talk about our most and least favorite logos in space, including missions, organizations, and companies. And some Soviet propaganda.DrinksDarn Putin - Platform Beer Company - UntappdSuper Cluster Ale 2020 - Lagunitas Brewing Company - UntappdEspresso Stout - Steamworks Brewing Company - UntappdTopicsoffnominal - TwitchEpisode T+153: Boeing to Refly Starliner Uncrewed Test, While SpaceX Crew Plans Firm Up - Main Engine Cut OffOff-Nominal on Twitter: "pre-game poll" / TwitterThe Worm is Back! | NASAEpisode 29 - Off-Nominal Show Notes61 Sensational Soviet Space Posters - FlashbakPicksApollo 13 in Real TimeNASA Graphics Standards Manual, PDF (Free!)1975 NASA Graphics Standards Manual (Hardcover)Follow JakeWeMartians Podcast - Follow Humanity's Journey to MarsWeMartians Podcast (@We_Martians) | TwitterJake Robins (@JakeOnOrbit) | TwitterFollow AnthonyMain Engine Cut OffMain Engine Cut Off (@WeHaveMECO) | TwitterAnthony Colangelo (@acolangelo) | TwitterOff-Nominal MerchandiseOff-Nominal Logo TeeWeMartians Shop | MECO Shop

DLS and go for main engine, start. Negative return. Welcome to space. Hello, Anthony. Jacob. It's not your name. That's not my name. Contrary to popular belief, not my real name.

It's a fun fact for another day, but we're back on Twitch. We're back on Twitch. Second month in a row. Self-isolation extreme edition. Turns out when you're stuck in your house for this long, you can figure out how to produce video. That's how it turns out. How's your quarantine been, man? Oh, you know, I already work from home, so...

Yeah, it's no different for you. It's just like the park's empty, and it's kind of weird. It's a little creepy out. Great news if you live in the Philadelphia area is that the Italian market is very low traffic. So I've got excellent resources right there. Yeah. I mean, I'm doing a home renovation and Home Depot is still open, and I'm doing podcasts like this and the alcohol store is still open.

And so, like, I'm okay. Were you getting a little nervous that your favorite, uh... favorite store was going to shut? Like, not shut down forever, but like at least be closed so you wouldn't have access for off nominal? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, but I guess, so one thing I didn't know is that you can't close liquor stores because they're essential because people with alcoholism can't go into Stark withdrawal like that.

And so that is like, it's an unfortunate reason that they have to stay open. But I'm also kind of thankful for it because this has been a trying time for everyone. That was a hot topic here in Pennsylvania because we are one of the weird backwards states that has state-owned liquor stores. Okay, yeah. Now there's, they're kind of loosened some of the constraints around that recently. If you have an area in your store where you can sit and eat and consume the alcohol, you can sell beer and wine.

So like, whole foods, added a little table section, now they can sell beer and wine. But other than that, liquor stores are state run. So this was like a major topic of like the government shutting down except for liquor stores. It's a whole thing. Right. Yeah. Really uplifting start to this rip-roar and episode of Ophnominal. Well, why don't you show us what you're drinking then?

We'll just segue that right in. I may or may not have, well, I went into the store. As you know, I have a hard time finding space-related beer in my local store, just generally. I went in today a little bit off, a little bit, I don't know if you listened to the recent episode of Main Engine Cut Off. I didn't have super great things to say about the Russians and their recent management around crude launch and now they're not going to put some people on this first operational mission of dragon that comes up later this year. I did listen. It was a great episode. Everyone should

listen to it. I found this beer called Darn Putin. And it's got this like, look at this amazing illustration on it. Wow. A. A. Kremlin on it? Yeah. So it's a Russian imperial stout and I was like, oh, you know what? It's how I feel. So I guess I'll get one of these. And then they only had one left, so I got a backup Supercluster Ale from Laginitas. I don't know. Did I have one of these on the show before? I seem to remember that one. I think I did. So either I've had it

on a trip to Texas or something. Something like that. You've had it. Which is more likely you because I think I only drink like weird Houston beers when they go down there. So,

unless Laganitas is Texan. No, it's California. California? Yeah. North of San Francisco. It's up in, I think it's in Petaluma. Actually, I know it's in Petaluma

because I worked with them once. It's great. Okay. All right. We did their website at the last company I worked at and part of the payment was that they would deliver cases of Loganitas to our office. It was amazing.

This is why I went into web development. Yeah, totally right there. Congrats. Oh, yeah. Nothing to do with all this going for us stuff. We do need to circle back on that topic towards the end of the episode. Sure, sure. Okay.

What you got over there? So I thank you to the listeners in the Discord who were showing off their beers ahead of the show because it reminded me 30 minutes ago that I do not have a beer yet for this show. Thankfully, I live across the street from the liquor store. store as we just talked about. So I ran over there and four minutes later I had a beer. So this is Steamworks brewing, one of my favorites, espresso stout. So kind of outside my wheelhouse because normally I do like, um, hold on me go full screen on that sucker because everybody needs to really bask in the glory of that illustration. It's a really good one. Yeah. Steamworks has this kind of like

Steampunk themed all their, um, the thing so you can see like the, the little propeller on the light bulb and stuff. What's flying next to it? They're like little cups of coffee with wings. Oh, yeah. Okay. Ornithopter coffee cups or whatever you want to call them. So, but yeah, so I, like I said, I normally drink like IPAs and Pilsners and that kind of stuff.

So a stout is a little outside in my wheelhouse. But I'm going to give it a go. So, yeah, it's a great beer. It's nice and thick. You can see how thick it is in the glass there, right? Oilers glass. Remember hockey, Jake? Not really, to be honest.

All right, we got some business here. Yeah, we do. We put out a poll, Anthony. We have a scientific data for this episode. Is it scientific? This was a poll in which I immediately knew which answer I was going to click. And yet didn't know if I got it right or not. So we put a poll out on Twitter.

Okay, so this episode is going to be a bit. about logos. Actually, why don't you set us up? Can you tell us a story of how this came about? The best news of the year is... Undisputed best news of the year is that the NASA worm is back. Unbiased news is that there was once a NASA worm in the late 70s to the early 90s that immediately, like a single day, got excised from the agency. And they went back to the meat. ball and it has been banished since. But our beloved leader, J.B. himself, has determined that the NASA worm is making a return

on DM2. J.B. I love that you have one at the ready. Where else is I going to put it other than right here in front of me? Let me pull up a photo because, God, does this look good on SpaceX hardware? It really does. got to admit, because the black and white of the falcon is like, it's reminiscent of like early shuttle, you know, like, so it really feels, feels good.

Oh, yeah. So the, the interesting thing about this is that the worm is coming back as a secondary logo, which I think is an easy way of starting out to bring the worm back before they just bring the worm back. Yeah. entirely. Yeah. So I'm fairly confident that the worm itself will be back as the primary logo in the not too

distant future. Where do you think? Where do you think that's going to land? Well, you know, 2020 has been a year that has challenged all, you know, preconceptions. So, oh, yeah, look at that picture. Look at that worm on this hardware. Yeah, I don't know, man. Who knows what could happen?

Somewhere past November of this year, we'll have a better idea of what the future of NASA is going to look like. But, yeah, it does look good, though. It looks really good. It looks really good. So now NASA is back in this state in which they have been for many years, where the meatball is the primary logo, and the worm is this thing that's kind of in the periphery. and there's almost some faction fighting about whether this should be the real logo or not, which I think is why you put up this poll that I will pull up here on Twitter.

I'm so proud of this poll. The pregame poll. Stupid Worm or Stupid Meatball were the two choices. And Stupid Worm, one by three or four percent. Can you please explain? me the results of this poll because I cannot make sense of this. Well, it says stupid worm, 51.9% stupid meatball, 48.1%, 81 votes. So yeah, I put that up a couple days ago.

I think, well, you can see my, you want to see my bias. I started with the options that I wrote stupid worm. And then I went to the next one. I was like, oh, no, everyone's going to know it's me. And I'm not stupid meatball. Oh, so this was trying to hide the bias. Yeah. So, okay.

So we have, this might be our biggest dispute in the world of space. You are, you are not a worm person. Well, you know me better than that. What do you think my actual take on is on worm versus meatball? Think hard about how I, how I take size on things. Very lightly. Yeah. You probably don't care at all.

I'm like, I'm a meatball guy, but I love the worm. Okay, all right. I thought you were angry about it. And in my case, the worm is undisputed one of the greatest logos in the history of the world. Wow, that's a bold claim. It is unbelievable. That's pretty bold, because there are some good logos out there. There are some good logos, but nothing has completely, in like, you know, the first instant of the NASA worm to find a genre of logo for 40 to 50 years.

I think many of today's modern space logos draw a direct line to the the essence of the worm logo which was setting like, that set the aesthetics of space age design. That's pretty fair. That's pretty fair. And it's still, 40 years later, looks futuristic, it's bold,

it's got these great colors to it, that bright red, all of the other, you know, the blues that they used in that era were a I feel like it captured NASA in a way that the meatball never did. Like it's the meatball is is only good for nostalgia. It is not objectively a good logo. I'll give it that. Yeah.

There's so much going on. The meatball has that kind of classic look, right? And it speaks. And I will also, so I'll push back a little bit, the meatball has also defined quite a few space-themed imagery through the... But only because it's been there. Case of point. Not because...

Yeah, yeah. Not too far off from the Canadian meatball here, right? But it's only to find an aesthetic because it's been there and because it was there during the Apollo time. Mm-hmm. But the worm, before it ever launched a space, because it didn't launch the space until,

you know, a couple years after it was completed. before he even hit a spacecraft, immediately defined an aesthetic of design for space. Yeah. And it's just perfect. And it still looks futuristic today. Yeah, if you're like, I'm sure that if we had like a design professional on this show,

they would very squarely be on your side. I'm sorry. Am I not a design professional, Jake? Am I not enough of a professional for you? Like, you know, you know, like that's, there's like all of the the best practices and the rules and the what and especially because it wasn't just a logo either it was like a a whole design system right yeah there's there's a book over there that probably talks a little bit about it but it was it was about typeface and it was

about margins and it was about you know whites and blacks and craze and how you use them all together and this whole system of how to make something look like NASA and that's why it's so special That's why you can't, it's like hard to hate the meat or the, the, the worm, even if you're like a super tribal meatball guy. Because it's like, it's a pretty good little package. Totally. But I also think that the flipping back to the meatball is the most NASA thing that has ever happened. It's like backwards looking, really uninspiring decision and like such a decision that was made by a group full of like a room full of people that didn't have any interest in the actual missions going on day to day. So when did that happen?

That was in... 92. 92. Okay. Yeah, that was a while ago. It was a long time ago. The story, was it you that sent the story? I can't remember now.

I read it now recently, but how they eradicated it. Yeah, Golden. Administrator Golden was like, get this out. And was angry about anything. If he saw a worm, he would like, roid rage is the essence of that story. He would personally remove it. It's a pretty interesting thing. And it is still up there on the Hubble.

It is, yeah. I would hope that the day that Starship captures Hubble, there is a worm on Starship. That's what I hope. Just to bring it full circle. Like Hubble essentially missed the Meatball era. Meatball V2 era. Yeah, just totally. Well, I guess it didn't because the shuttle had been there a couple times of the meatball on it.

That's fair. Yeah. But the shuttle's never had meatballs on them, did they? Well, after 92, they did. Did they? Yeah. What do you think? They kept the worm?

You just said. Golden went through and ripped everyone's face off. Yeah, but like it was... Had it on the wing. It wasn't like a sticker on the side of the damn thing. Like, it was like...

That's a whole paint job, and that's like expensive, right? Well, yes, because it was also space shuttle. Yeah. Okay. So I think that if... Regardless of how this year's going to go for J.B., I think J.B. should go full Bolden.

I mean, Bolden. God, I can't get over Bolden. Golden. My two least favorite administrators, Bolden and Golden, I think you should go full golden and eradicate the meatball, regardless, whether he's an administrator or a year from now or not. Yeah. You know, and so one of the things that really connects me to Meatball, too, is the vertical assembly building because, like, that is such a classic, like, just enormous meatball, like, just the biggest meatball ever. This is, this episode is going to sound really strange. of contact.

Giant meatballs. But yeah, so that really connected. But then I'm thinking about it too, and the worm would look pretty good up there with the black, white, and red, too. It would look amazing. Yeah. So here's the one thing about NASA. They have a lot of logos. And I think, I want to just give some shoutouts to a couple

other of the logos that are related to NASA that I think are pretty great. Particularly if you go to see any of the old school planes that NASA flies. The old tail art is a different style altogether. I thought you'd bring this up. Yeah, because I love me some tail art. Let's look at this one here.

Surprise you're not wearing that shirt. I was thinking about putting that one on. I don't know why I didn't. I should have. So check this one out here. This tail art is, it's very utilitarian. You know, it's like, it's definitely more Air Force inspired than anything.

But it looks so good on these tails. Much better than today on the tails, there's kind of this, like, stripped-down meatball, right? It's just kind of got the red swoosh. I think there was a picture of it on this page somewhere. The NASA tail art, let's go. Because there's just, like,

meatball without the ball that exists on their, I think it's on their F-15. Isn't what I find amazing about NASA, though, is that they have so many different, varieties of logos that they use. Yeah, here you go. So there's this like meatball without the ball. Inverted meatball.

Right? That's weird. That one looks even worse. Yeah, that one's not great. I'm not into that. It would have been better if they just put the real meatball on there. Yeah, and well, I think the other cool part that people are mentioning in the chat here is that this, this, the tail art with the yellow stripe is kind of NACA inspired. It's using that NACA color, which is their predecessor.

which might get us into our next topic, which NACA has a terrible, terrible logo. I don't think I've ever seen it. It's this. This is the NACA logo. Okay. Like, what is this? And we should say,

so if you're listening to this show as a podcast or not as a video. You are not getting the full experience. And you're like, what the hell is this podcast? We're going to try and put the album art on the phone. So look at your phone as we're saying these. We'll try and put these pictures up on your phone. so you can look at them along with us.

Anyway, continue. Well, I get the basics of this, right? Like the shield and the wings and everything. And then they had this cute version where they had a logo that had the shield separate from the wings because the AC could be taken out and turned to the AS. But it's just terrible, terrible typography.

Which is weird, because I feel like that era, historically, was a very good era for logos. The early aeronautics era had a lot of that, like, retro kind of, a hand-drawn logo vibes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Real quick, this is Anthony here from the future. I wanted to drop this in because as I was editing this episode,

I realized how much mayhem it would be to have album art mapped to each one of these logos. So instead, what I did was put together a new little page for you. If you go over to notes.orgnominal. Dot, n-O-T-E-S dot off-nominal.space, there will be a page there for this episode. On it, it will have every logo that we talked about. so that you could see it in all of its glory and just scroll through the page and partake in the fun with us,

because this is a very visual episode. So please head over there, notes.com nominal.companel. That space, follow along if you want or take a cruise through it later to see how well we did describing these logos. Okay, back to the show. So before we get into specifics, though, I'd love to get your take on logos in space generally, both like organizations, governmental organizations, companies. where are you at with the state of space logos? So I did a whole bunch of research on this and I say a whole bunch of research,

but I googled a lot of pictures and looked at them. That was my research. But one of the things that I kind of notice is like there's, as like time progressed, you'd have like these like innovative logos kind of pop up and it'd be like, oh, cool, this is interesting. And they like slowly transform over time. And the longer like an organization has been around,

or like a mission has been around, but like worse it gets. And it's because it's like, especially with all these big companies that are merging. It's the mergers. The mergers just ruin it. You have to like, okay, I got this good logo and this good logo. And I have to make them into one. But the only way that I can like make, I can reconcile like 15 mergers over 50 years is like just kind of a slanty font with some angled lines. And that's like, that's all you can really.

That's the only thing that harmonizes all of it. And so like now if you look at all. these like really old ones like Northrop, Lockheed, Boeing. They're just like they're just boring. They're just awful. Yeah. It's especially depressing as you look at the earlier logos like you're saying and they're really good. And then you can just see the corporatism that minds out all of the good stuff of each logo. And like yeah, it's like, oh, we'll take this streak from that logo and then this one from that logo and we'll jam them together and see what happens. And it's just like, oh man, this is terrible.

I'm getting called out for calling up Boeing, but I maintain that it is not good, because it's just like, it's got this like muted McDonald-Douglas globe and like the old Boeing word. It's just like, it's not original at all. It's,

I don't know. And I'm sure these will come up in our conversations. Probably. So what our schick was here, we've settled now that the worm is the greatest logo that there ever was. Jake doesn't care enough to fight me on it.

Worm forever. That's a good ad. Oh, one more thing on the, worm. If you notice, like, if you look at mission patches, I think that's a good designation to look at for, like, how logos are used. The meatball's not going to appear on mission patches. No. It's too much. And I can speak about this from experience because I made a mission patch for We Martians and, you know, sneak peek. The second one's coming soon. But there are severe

restrictions on what you can put onto a mission patch because of like the technological restriction of a sewing needle, I guess is what it is. Yeah, no, just general like state of physics and how big things can be. Yeah, uh, worm all the way for mission patch. There's no contest there. You'll never get all the little stars in that fine line of the swoosh and the seraph on the NASA font and the all that stuff would not work. It's just too much complexity jammed into it. And, and NASA worm itself can be put anywhere. It can survive anywhere. And I do think that's what makes it great in particular for space usage, not just like as a logo, but particularly the way that NASA would need to use this thing. The worm would hold up so much better than the meatball. The meatball needs just space to live. The worm can just be jammed on any component of a spacecraft and hold up really well. It's also more modern with like current design trends, which is not really how you want to design a logo for a long lasting institution. But like it came around again, you know, so like that sort of. minimalist clean line, almost blocky, you know, shapes and stuff is very in today again.

So I'm saying, man, it defined an era of design. It really did. And it pairs really well with other typefaces. Yeah. You can put the worm with like any, I mean, you're supposed to put it with Helvetica, but you can put it with a lot of stuff. Can we just say to any of the other companies that think it's cool to just take the NASA worm font and just write anything with it. Yeah. including NASA. I've seen you do this NASA. You can't just extend your font to, to whatever you want.

Stop it. People are doing it in the Discord chat. Someone's doing the Discord with the Off Nonal local. Like that's brutal. Look at that M. Yeah, stop that. Stop that. I just threw up a little bit of my mouth.

So, yeah, no, I saw a logo for, for Perseverance written in it. Mars 2020 Rover. I'm like, no, no, no, stop, stop. It's too many letters, first of all. Brutal. Yeah, it's just like, Perseverer. sucks.

Anyway, okay, that's my rant over. Okay. So what we thought would be fun is to take a walk through our favorite slash best and, of course, the worst logos in the space realm today. I didn't constrain this too much

when I was thinking about it. I thought you could leave it open, whether you mean companies, government organizations, missions themselves, whether programs have logos. Pretty wide ranging here. Historic, current,

whatever you want. and we're going to go through some of these because there's a lot of good ones, there's a lot of bad ones, and there's a lot. My general take on the world of space logos is like most of it's just boring. It's all just the same and boring and uninspiring.

You should see this list of stuff I made where I went down like lists of them and just wrote like one word of my opinion on it to remember myself. I can't wait for you to read that list from start to finish. There's a lot of like, me. That's how I feel about a lot of it. It's like, you know,

they took this general inspiration that's similar to what everyone else did and it could be any company in there. Yeah. Yeah. So where do you want to start? You want to start on bad or good? Okay, well, let me just... So I'll just say when I went through,

I started with bad and good and where I ended up was like themes, themes that I liked and themes that I didn't like. And so I don't know if I necessarily fit your format that you decided for us, but... This is very loose formatting. Come on. Yeah, we're not good at this. Even I don't think I can rank like

the number one logo. I have three really good ones and I have three terrible ones and I can expound on them all individually. Well, do you want to talk about like rockets first, like and, and those kind of companies and stuff? Sure. Let me dig into that. Let's go. You want to bring up your what you got? Me personally. Atlas? Oh, the old Atlas logo. Classic Atlas logo. Yeah, so I've got, I love this Atlas logo. I also am like, this Atlas logo. Oh, so good. I can't find a higher quality than this one for some reason. This high quality version of this does not exist on the internet. And this is still in use in some places.

Aren't they still sticking on the sides of Atlas? I think on the Atlas, yeah. Yeah. So there's got a couple launches left of this sucker. But it's been around since Atlas. You know, this was not like a, this is not specific to Atlas 5 or earlier than that. This was Atlas's logo. It was on buildings back in the day at the Cape.

And it's got such a retro, like the typeface at the bottom, I think could, be improved because that's pretty basic. But the A itself with the kind of like sunset lines, the horizon lines, what do you love about this? So I like, there's kind of like this old, I'm trying to, I wish I was actually one of those design professionals I was talking about because I don't know how to like articulate all these like feelings that I have about things. But there's this sort of like feeling from, I think it's like 50s 60s that is like very,

you know, it's like that madmen style marketing, that kind of oozes from here to me. And that ended up being kind of timeless now. I mean, maybe it wasn't very cool in the 80s, but like that's come around again. And, you know, looking at old ads from the 60s, like feels really cool now. And this feels like a stick right in there, like, you know, some really inappropriate ad about rockets and, you know, it'd be like, Atlas, a man's rocket. And like, they'd have this logo stuck on it, you know? And, like, that's what this kind of feels to me. So that's, that's kind of why I like it.

It makes you think about Don Draper, but. One of the strengths of logos through time is how well somebody could just draw it. Like, you could, couldn't you sketch this? Yes, yes. Right. And this is why I hate the blue origin logo, the leaf, the feather. Like, that, that is not something I can sketch really easily on anything. And then their actual typeface.

You could fake it. Yeah. I mean, you drew it pretty good on the last episode. Do I still have that here somewhere? Maybe. I don't know. But it's, it is not a,

it's not a simple logo. It's not something that is, like you can't, from your memory, talk me through the feather, the shape of the feather, in the same way that you could with the NASA worm. Yeah.

Right. And I feel like that the simplicity of this Atlas logo or the NASA worm is very distinctive. And I love that. Hmm. Okay. That's an interesting take. Yeah. One of my favorites from, uh, if we're doing good ones first.

Sure. And I, I found a couple different varieties of this online is the Energia logo. Oh, I haven't, uh, haven't looked at this. This thing is great. And I've seen this version and I've seen this version on the building. That's kind of more of an outline sort of situation. Uh, Sputnik inspired. Right, because they've, is the company in Russia that's done everything. They make Soyuz and R7 and everything you can name pretty much.

This is Design Bureau 1, isn't it? Curlives, you know, company essentially. Okay. So I don't know what they're currently using today. Maybe flat noise in the Discord chat can tell us what logo is in modern use here, but either one of these is just absolutely lovely. I love the gradient. Yeah, this one's really nice.

That's a story from my web development bootcamp. We ended up, our cohort ended up calling ourselves the gradient gang. The gradient gang. It was like a joke. One of us threw a, I don't know, a gradient on some demo we were doing. And then from then on, every project had to have gradients. It was gradients everywhere. Fighting the last 10 years of design trends on the internet.

That was the joke. I just love this for, like, if I showed you this, you would probably guess correctly who this was. because of the Sputnik-inspired aesthetic. Like, there's definitely historical ties to this that I love, because it's got the speed thing going, it's got the Sputnik thing going, and of all of the generic logos out there that are just circles, this is probably the best one.

No, I'm thinking it. I think I have some good circle ones coming up. We'll see. We'll see. Can you bring up a Vulcan? I actually like Vulcan a lot. Vulcan Rocket. Oh, the ULA Vulcan?

Oh, the V with the, yeah, the V with the thing. I kind of like this a lot. V with the flame? Yeah, I mean, it's obviously a very modern logo because it got invented 25 minutes ago or whatever, but no, I kind of like it. It's simple, the good colors, it's good straightforward.

I kind of like it. It's cool. It's not my favorite of the ones with flames on them, for sure. Not my favorite of the ones with flames on it. Well, yeah, I mean, like, okay, So if we're doing the flame, are they Firefly.com? Fireflies logo, right?

This is not on my list of favorites, but this was high up there. They got that nice actual firefly of a bug, and then they've got the flames out its butt, essentially. And I like the way that these flames are integrated here, whereas in the Vulcan one, it's just kind of like, fire, I guess? I don't know. I think it's better than that.

I'm not super into it as a launch vehicle. Separate the launch vehicle from the logo, Anthony. You can do it. No, I didn't mean like that. I didn't mean like that. Although they did get rid of the evil caneval livery that was going to fly with Vulcan. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Blue stripes or whatever else they had on there.

Stars and stripes. Yeah. Breaking the U.S. flag code or whatever by printing it on something that isn't. Yeah. We don't care about that. This was in your list, though. This is like one of your favorite three? I like Vulcan, yeah.

I mean, I don't know. I don't know if it's favorite three. I'm just, we're in the rocket world here. Can I tell you my favorite logo in the modern era? Yeah. Relativity. This is a brilliant logo. It shows that you can do a typographic logo alone really well.

And specifically, it is why Combinator fan service. Yes, that is correct. but I love the V that finishes off in the dots of the eyes. I love that because it gives you that extruding, you know, it's 3D printing, talking about extrusion, like that extruding from a single piece of material out into the dots and then the V itself, lovely. Like this is one that you have a great typographic logo,

but you can also just use that V. Because I think when you load their website, they do this whole like intro animation where you've got these dots that then go into the V and I love that. So. You know why I think you like that logo based on what I know about you? Oh, please tell me. That font is like just so Anthony. It is?

Yeah, it's just like that it's like super clean, simple, heavy, bold, like modern. I do love the R. I love an R that has that kind of, you know, that the, the, the, the, the, the, The longer extended loop or whatever is there? I love that. I do kind of hate, I hate teas that are slanted like this. Oh, yeah?

Chase is going to hate this episode, by the way, in particular. He's definitely going to hate it. Just want to give him a shout out because he's going to hate this episode. But I don't like teas that have this kind of slantiness. So, relativity, though. And I like this in particular because a lot of space companies today are solely going off typographic logos and they don't have a lot of crests or.

or things that you would see historically, symbols or even anything like that. But this shows that you can do it really well while still working some sort of very recognizable symbol in. And I love that. And also, this proves my first hypothesis about relativity that they are a 3D printing company, not a launch company.

They just currently happen to be making launch vehicles. Yeah. Because this is a 3D printing company logo. 100%. Yes. You should bring up agile. space. I like this one a lot. Yes. Yes. Large is going to be happy, but...

And this specifically, their newer logo. Their new logo. And he suggested this in the chat, which I'm... That's the thing that'll work. We're going to just look at it on the website. Yeah, he suggested to we look at this in the chat, and I'm glad he did because I was going to bring it up anyway, but I love it. The mock diamonds coming out of the A is perfect. It's great. I do love the mock diamond itself as an element here is wonderful. I think if Lars is listening needs a little feedback,

I do think somebody told him this when he was working on it or when they were working on it, space industries needs to come down and align with the bottom mock diamond. Yeah, I totally just. Just a little bit. That needs to be lined up. But I do love the concept here. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one.

Again, a good way to work in notable visual. elements into your logo, right? Very distinctive. It says what they do. The A with the mock diamonds by itself would be perfect on the side of a rocket. Oh, beautiful on the side of the rocket. Much better than the Omega logo. I can't even think of what it is. What is the Omega logo? Let's see. If it just says Omega, I'm going to punch a whole. This stream is just Anthony Googling things. Yeah, it's really good. Did they get rid of the, uh, the Omega logo? Did they scrub that? There it is. It's gone. See, it's similar to the agile thing.

Oh, yeah, it is gone. Oh, I didn't even realize that. Lars, I can't believe you stole this from Omega. But he did make it way better. He did make it better. I don't know if he personally did this. Yes. I'd like to just pretend that Lars did everything. Okay, so my last on my list of best is a historic one.

It is North American Aviation. Wow. This is a downright, lovely logo that I am so sad went away. Again, through what you were saying, the series of mergers that took all the good stuff out of everything. This was one, this was an innocent bystander to that that got taken out unfairly. Because this is just like, there's so much in this. The eagle, the nice, you know, the delta shape that is very, that is used frequently in branding for aerospace companies. God, there's just so much here that I love.

And this eventually became North American Rockwell and yada yada on through history. But North American, you know, they were around using this logo when they did X-15, they did both of the Little Joes, they did the Apollo CSM, obviously. They got a lot of flack for Apollo 1.

They did the S2 on Saturn 5, all under this logo, and then post-merger with Rockwell, they were the primary shuttle contractor. Mm-hmm. So a lot of good history here for historically this logo. Yeah. And as a notable, they were the ones that rolled off Rocket Dine originally. So if you look at the original Rocket Dine logo, also a pretty good, pretty good logo back in the day.

Very old school. It's very simple R. What do you think about this one? I kind of like it. Yeah, it's got a little bit of that, like, Atlas feel to it. Yeah, it's definitely of that era. It also kind of looks a lot like, it's got a little bit of old Soviet feel to it, too, though, which is kind of weird. You know?

The slanted lines to it, very, like. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I feel weird that the, I don't know what this is. Is it a rocket? Is it the nose cone of a ballistic missile that is splitting the R and half is like, I don't know, it's very strange.

But we did, you know, in the realm of North American aviation, Rockwell International's logo is also a classic. This is a great one. That's not it. Where's the real one? That's not it? That's close. The font was a little wonky on that first picture I pulled up.

But yeah, that's a classic one as well. And then this was the logo that North American Rockwell got stuck under for the shuttle era. right it's a good one yeah i like it too all right let's talk about you got any good ones left or is it time to rip into these bad ones because i got some good ones well um yeah if we want to talk about bad rocket stuff or do or i mean i have some planetary stuff too to talk about oh let's hit it up good stuff yeah um if we're gonna stay on good ones um so okay so just precursor a lot of the planetary mission logos not that great just just

general rule of thumb yes yeah and there's like looking at these there's like this like kind of like classical era of of planetary mission and most of them were like kind of a patch design like a crest design rather than like a logo um but from like i don't know 80s to like 2010 it was like all the same it was like the same thing it was like you get a picture of the spacecraft a real picture of the planet behind it and then like text around the outside that was like that's like how you do it that was Everyone, they were all like that and they were not good. So, but there were some good ones. So, can you bring up the, so, and when Spirit was stuck in the sand, JPL made a free spirit logo for like a website about like recovering the mission.

That's really cool. And I wanted to bring this up. You said go wide. I'm going wide here. So, yeah, I think you just Google free spirit. Is it this one that kind of has, uh, it's like a sky. square, red, and yellow. Is it this thing?

Yeah. I like this a lot. I'm really into this. So yeah, this is like JPL's like campaign to like drum up morale or whatever when the mission was on the rocks. In spirit. Isn't that great? The terminology is funny on several levels, which is the best part about it. Yeah, totally.

So this is the one that like really stuck out to me as something that was a good logo. They lose points for using. aerial because it's just like they just opened was it was the default font and whatever they opened you know they lose points on that it doesn't feel considered but i do like the i do love the the shadow usage yeah it's wonderful there yeah it's really good and just the clean like the the clean color contrast too it's good yeah um yeah so that was really good i also like uh the juno mission the gno mission juno oh juno i thought you said the gillow Gino mission.

I was like, Gino from South Philly? No, no, no, no, Gino. Because it's a newer one, right? And so it's like, again, one of those, it's our style, this kind of clean lines, right? You're going to have to, oh, oh, oh. That's not a mission patch. It's like a logo, right? Yeah, that's the one.

That's nice. It's pretty good, right? That's really nice. So you get this nice, like, like the orbit band across Jupiter. there, it's like, it's like three things to me. It's like, uh, it could be the red storm and like a cloud band. It could be the Juno Perry. The red storm, you know, the famous red storm of Jupiter. The big red storm. What is it called? I don't know. Great red spot. The red storm. I'm a rocky planet guy. Okay. It's wonderful. It could be like a, like a Juno Parajjov dive, right? It's like

the point of close approach. And it could also just be. one of the moons of Jupiter, too. So there's so much going on there that it's like, but very simple, just a line in a circle. And then the very, do you know it has the benefit of being a really distinctive spacecraft with the three solar panel arrangement? So, yeah, I'm with you on this. This actually didn't cross my mind, but this would make my favorite list for sure. Yeah.

And then I think what is my absolute favorite planetary mission logo is the Insight one. So if you bring this up, this. is like the really simple good color usage it is uh yeah that first one there really great looks a little bit too much like some sort of enterprise software to me enterprise software oh man yeah i don't know but i mean it's it's such a geophysical thing though that's why i think i like it it's very uh on it clearly it's on brand not i don't want to say on brand it describes to you what the mission is doing, which I like, because not a lot do that, you know,

without, without like a fully featured picture of the, here's the rover walking across the surface. Like all the other bad ones versus like, right, like most need to use an actual picture to show what they're doing, and this really gets the point across without any of that. Yeah. Are we doing honorable mentions before we get into the bad ones?

Honorable mention. Because I got some of, ones. So I'll give me one first. This is kind of boring honorable mention, but, um, so ESA does logos for their missions, but they're like all, it's all the same style. So it's like a common brand for planetary missions. Um, so if you just bring up, I don't know, look up, uh, I think Rosetta did it,

Cassini did it, Mars Express. And it's like this kind of red spacecraft on a gray background with the ESA typography. I've got just the spacecraft here. Yeah, so that's the Rosetta one. So they do this for almost all of them. And I kind of like this too, because it's like, I like the white outline of the spacecraft. I don't know. That thick line?

I dig it, yeah. So. What other missions do you say? You can look up Cassini Hoagans. You just want me to spell Hoagans? Did I get it right? Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, that's a good. Never seen that one. It's pretty hot. That's a nice one. I don't know what's happening there with that image. But yeah, that's a good one. That's a nice one. So they kind of do that for all of them.

So it's like common branding for their planetary missions. Yeah, I think I've seen the Xomars one and I was like, meh. That one's not super great. Because there's too much. There's a lot of things going on. Yeah, they're doing all three there. They should have just done one at a time. Yeah.

Yeah, so that's a good one. That's kind of my honorable mention for planetary missions. Do you have any favorite mission patches in the design aesthetic, not just like any old mission patch, but in particular, like, well-designed ones? Mission patches? I'm looking at my notes. I actually like STS-38. That's not what I expected.

Very specific. I looked at all of the shuttle patches, and this is the one I liked. Wow. That's a whole thing going on there. This is like one of those classified DoD missions? Is it this one? Yeah. I like that one.

It's nice and simple. The shuttle patches, like, they're all just so much going on on them. And this is like, this is one where they just kind of eased off and said, well, you know what, the DoD mission, we can't actually put any details on it. So just put the shuttle and some nice lines. And always makes you wonder, like, what were they doing on this one? You know? What were they doing? What were they doing there?

Why is it upside down? What's going on there? Here's the best mission patch. Gemini 7. Wow. That one's great. I did not go far enough back to find these. I didn't look at Gemini.

Gemini 7 is one of the best because it's got this great, like, the story behind it was that they were envisioning this to be a marathon-length mission, right? This was the really long-duration Gemini mission. And so they used this Olympic torch. And then there was kind of, to me, like, in retrospect, now that we know what happened with Gemini 6 and 7, where they were the rendezvous missions, kind of had this passing the torch thing that worked on a different level. They weren't expecting that to work,

but it did work. Yeah. And I just love this overall look here. It's great. That is a good one. Great one. If you want to look at a funny one that I think it's really funny, Apollo 10.

I'll tell you why I think it's funny if you bring up Apollo 10. It's very involved. It's one of the most involved Apollo ones. It is. Okay, please explain to us what is funny about this. To me, this one looks like someone got a new computer at NASA to big 3D graphics, And they were like 3D graphics, look at this.

Oh, yeah. We're going to make this 10, and it's going to be in perspective mode. And it's like a blocky. Like, oh, man, computers are cool. That's what this mission patch says to me. Yeah, I've never spent a lot of time looking at it. To me, it was more like somebody was playing a lot of, like, tabletop football and kicking field goals. You probably don't know what tabletop football is.

Like foosball? Whatever. Never mind. Paper football? You ever have paper football? No. No, okay. I can tell you all about ball hockey.

Never mind. Somebody out there enjoyed it. All right, Jake. All right. Bad ones? Let's get into the bad ones. Bad ones? Yeah.

I got some bad ones. Yeah, you go first. I just talk for a whole bunch of planetary shit. Okay. There are different categories of bad. And two of mine, one of them, of mine is historic

and has been corrected a little bit since. Two of mine are what we were talking about earlier in the category of

mergers in which made terrible logos. And one of the worst has to be Arrowjet Rocketline. This is a horrible,

horrible logo on so many levels. Number one, why is there the classic red triangle thingy in the A? Why does that exist? It's a common theme because it's also at the top of the whatever. And yes, moving over to the right side, why is the blue swoosh so curly? What is that? What is this blue swoosh?

This is the exact one I was talking about. You'd have slanty words and lines. That's all you can do with these old spacewalks. companies, right? Yeah, the red triangle on the blue swoosh with the completely uninspiring black text is just horribly uninspiring and not like if you said, oh, that's the company that made, you know, this company made great rocket engines. You'd be like, wow.

And it just looks like a company full of lawyers. This is a terrible, terrible logo. Well, I mean, just bring up, bring up Lockheed, Northrop, and Boeing. and you put it all in a quad and it's the exact same story. Like this is, I don't know if everyone's really thought about this, but they're all the same logo. There's a reason that the Stark Industries logo is the way that it was in Iron Man. Because they're all the same.

Yeah, slanty text. Except for, Jake. Angled lines. Except for the modern day Northrop Grumman logo makes me so angry on so many levels. This was number two of my list of bad logos. Because this is not only the. worst of what we were just talking about with these mergers that that just take all of the personality of great logos and completely strip them because do you know looking at this logo what

the historic northrop and grumman logos look like they are they are downright whimsical if i must say look at this northrup logo okay look at this northrup logo like you know what error that came out yep okay look at this grumman logo what were they grumman aircraft right look at this grumman logo Grumman, like, helicopter. Uh, logo. Like, look at these crazy logos that Grumman had going on. And then you get to Northrop Grumman. Plain Futura with a right angle that is just, it makes me so mad because there's a branding

company out there that got paid untold millions of dollars for this logo. A lot of money. And it's so generic. Like, that could say any words. And I would believe that that's the company's logo. There's nothing unique about it. It's terrible. It's terrible.

Horrible. Anyway, so that was, all right. I'm angry, Jake. Yeah. Do you want to see the worst logo in space? Let's do it. You know what? Let's build up to that one.

Because there's nothing that can beat it. There's nothing that can beat it. Well, I'll give you a run for your money here. You want to look up a bad planetary one? Yeah, sure do. Look up the Dawn mission patch. I don't even know if I could describe to you in words what the Dawn Mission Patches. It should be like, it's like a with, you know, series in the background with the orange border.

Okay, bring this up like full screen. We need to just bask in how bad this is. Okay, so first of all, like I get, I talked about how this is like the style, right? This is like what you did for mission patches for a long time. spacecraft the planet is exploring behind it text around the outside but there are still things in your control and like i keep looking at new elements as you're describing this and it gets better okay so what is with this orange color that like doesn't match anything else in it and this is coming from a guy who has a blue and orange logo like they can be complimentary colors but this is not it

Like this, like, the blue border is like this like pastel kind of like baby blue. And then it's just like full orange. So I don't know what's going on there. So the color is not good. The second thing, the text on the outside needs some breathing room. Like it is like squeezed right up against the outside. But it's not consistent either. So like look at the bottom.

Look at like where it says D.O.R. The D is like encroaching. Yeah, what's going on there? And then, but if you if you scroll over to the right. Why is it tilted like that? I don't know. And if you scroll over the right, like, ANAF and Lannell, they have space above them. So, like, it's not even a consistent, like, line spacing that's going.

I don't know what, it's brutal. And then look at- This is distinctly terrible. Look at the Dawn text. Look at the A and the W. Like, they're just tilted, like, against each other somehow. It's just, it's brutal, man. It's, like, the worst.

This is so bad. Like, I'm sorry, Don, you were a cool mission, but this is a really bad mission patch. This is horrible. Yeah. Nothing is worse than Vesta and Series in text. Curved around. Yeah.

With Microsoft word art, PowerPoint word art going on there. Here's another layer to look at. Vesta has a lot of detail on the patch. And then series is blurry. Series has like shadowing behind it. But it's also blurry. Like, yeah, maybe. That's because that's the best we had of that, right?

Well, then why not? not make them both a little blurry? This is hilarious, actually. It's awful. It's really bad. So that's my worst. Wow, that's a good one, man. That's like the worst one that I found.

How did you even, was this in your head? Like, were you disturbed by this and this is what you've been thinking about? Well, no, I was chasing down that theme. I'm like, are all the mission, planetary mission patches the same? It's just spacecraft with the planets and the circle and the text. And I was like going through the mall trying to like see if that was a theme and this popped up on my screen. I was like, oh my God, what's that?

That is a terrible one. So, yeah. But there's like a whole... Because that's not only bad in concept, it is bad in execution. Yeah. Right? It's bad in both. Because even I could admit that the North of Grumman logo is a well-executed bad logo,

whereas this is a badly theorized, badly executed mission patch. That's great, man. So I have a couple of weird ones that aren't necessarily bad. Do you want to save those to after bad? Weirdos? Yeah, we'll do weirdos later. Okay. All right.

So hit me with your worse then. Okay. All right. Prepare. Please prepare for this. I got a full beer. Do you remember the dot com boom? Sure.

Just in concept? Yeah, of course. Do you remember what the internet looked like back then? Like web 2.0 stuff? No, this was pre 2.0. This was web. This was web. 1.0.

Like GeoCities? Like, yeah. Pets.com. Right. Original internet. Internet Explorer versus Netscape? Yes. Would you believe me that Arian space came out of the dot-com boom?

This is a horrible logo. Now they have since rebranded. They have since rebranded, and it's like a flat design kind of thing. This is hilariously bad because there's... There's so many things in here, Jake. This is another one that is so dense, much like the Dawn Mission Patch. There are so many things wrong with this logo

that it beggars belief. Number one, I know you love gradients, but there's gradients everywhere in here. Not only on the circle, on the arrow, on the orbit, there's too many gradients. There's linear gradients and circular gradients in this. And circular gradients on a line. The orbit has a circular gradient.

I didn't even notice that. It's several levels deep here. This is a tour to force of gradients. Then there's these competing bad typefaces. There's two bad typefaces here. There's the Aryan space one. And then Service and Solutions, which is a rounded version of the bad typeface that is in the primary logo,

both custom and terrible. And then there is the arrow with a huge drop shadow that is like, that is an internet arrow. That is not an aerospace arrow. That is a net scape navigator arrow. Yeah. Why is it an arrow? An actual arrow.

Not a pointy thing. An actual arrow. I'm pretty sure that's like a PowerPoint arrow. But then whoever did the Dawn mission patch was brought in to skew them. We really like what you did with screwing up that type. Can you please work this arrow to be shooting over the top of this. globe. You know what bothers me the most about this is the on the service and solutions part, there's like the R and the N

have like the indent at the joint and it like it makes it too thin. It almost goes yeah, almost goes past the level of the R itself. Yeah. This is terrible. Not good. And they use this up until like 2012 or something I want to say, like very recently. Horrible logo. Huh. Okay.

Yeah, I don't know. I just always thought of this logo. It's just horrible logo. I don't even know what to say about it, quite honestly. It's a bad. It's a bad logo. All right, you got any weird ones? Uh, well, this one's kind of weird, but I do want to shout it out.

The Noah Crest is quite wonderful. Like the Noah, crest itself. It is pretty good, isn't it? As far as government agencies that are all some level of boring crest, Noah is good because it's got that thing that good logos have

where there's like several components to it that work on different levels. So you've got the waves on the light blue, but then it makes the bird. And it's got that kind of, I don't care for the text too much on this, but I do like the blue and the white crest usage here. Yeah, it's good.

So that's a good one. I'm into that. And then the weird ones that I would like to shout out is, is every mission patch from an NRO mission, just generally? Oh, yeah. You got to show a few of them. They're so good. All right.

Give me your favorites. Well, I don't know the numbers, but there's the, the witch lady with the trident or whatever it is. You have to just, just Google NRO. I'm just going to pull up the entire page of these because they're all incredible. Oh, look at them. Oh, so good. So that top one, 35.

Enroll 35 Some sort of witch with a trident Yeah what is she have like a piece of the sun in her hand Yeah Who knows man, who knows Enroll 39 is a classic Nothing is beyond our reach With the octopus eating the earth

There's like the dwarf one Like with the hammer and stuff I don't know the dwarf My D&D is coming out there But it's like a black movie guy Wait Down there Oh this guy here?

Yeah That's a tiny one Tiny resolution. Oh, the knight. I do like the knight. The knight's a good one, yeah. The knight's a good one. This, some sort of like Athena, I would say.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Great one. Apparently, is this like Lewis and Clark? Who are these two, gentlemen? I don't know. That's an American thing, maybe. Then you've got this one here, this, the lizard riding.

Yeah. Yeah, it's like, these are all just like, I don't know, it might be so fun to work in this marketing office, because This is like, okay, we need another NRO patch. It's like, what are the requirements? Doesn't matter. We can't tell you anything about the mission. Just have fun.

Just like, and there's just like there's very clearly some Dungeons and Dragons nerd at a design office. Creating characters. I have the best job in the entire planet. I just draw up D&D characters and sell them to the Department of Defense for like thousands of thousands of dollars. Like, it's great. I also think that there's, there's an element of it that is playing with us, right? The people that are going to look at the mission patches and go, what could they buy? possibly mean this octopus is eating the earth. Nothing is beyond our reach. It means so much.

And it's probably has nothing to do with the mission. It's not even a hint. So I do like that element that they're clearly playing with us to some level. Totally. Pull up Mars Phoenix. He ever looked at this logo? Mars Phoenix. I don't think so. Can you remind me Phoenix? So this is 2007, went to Mars. Polar Lander. Didn't last very long because a polar winter. on Mars is a heck of a thing. But they went kind of all... Is it the one that I'm thinking of? It's like a swooshy Phoenix.

It's the one I think it is? It's a little bit Firefox logo. Yeah, it's totally Firefox. So there's like, there's a lot going on in this logo. But so the swooshy Firefox in the middle with like all these kind of things. I kind of like that. I think that's like the strong suit of this logo. But what is going on with the font?

Like it's... this is like the most 2005, 2007, I don't know, there's like something going on. No, it's even more than that. It's a little bit like you're seven years old and you're now into death metal and you think you can draw death metal logos. Or like you're seven years old and dad just taught you that you can change the font in Microsoft. For your death metal band. For your death metal band.

So yeah, there's like a lot going on with this, I don't know, just like brutal font. It's even made better by the fact that the entire thing. is ringed with the most boring serif font I've ever seen in my life that has an entire paragraph of people that worked on this mission. It's so pedestrian on the outside and then mayhem in the middle.

Yeah, it just goes mental in the middle. I just don't even know what to say about it. That's a good one. Yeah, I like that one a lot. Now, is this another one that has always been in your head or through all your Mars research, you've kind of... That one I have seen before, and I was like, that's weird, but...

That's a great one. Yeah. So, I don't know, it's super interesting. The Mars 2020 logo is also kind of bizarre. I don't like it. There's like too much going on with it. And this is, you're saying, I see a couple here. You're going to have to direct me on which one.

It's got the two zero and the two zero in it. Is it this one or is it the first? Yeah, that one. This? That's a tiny one. We need a bigger. Yeah, it's like, there's too much going on there. Like, it's almost good.

but they're like, okay, you got to use the twos and the zeros and you got to, everything has to be linked, right? I think my favorite is that it just says prepare for humans. Yeah, the strap-on goal so that it's irrelevant to the rest of the agency, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. The fact that they're, I think it's the tone of voice that these three directives are written. Prepare for humans, collect rock samples, seek paths life. it's not just feels like it's directing Mars to prepare for humans and I don't know it reads I don't know how to read this like be prepared it sounds a little bit like the loading screen of Sim City like reticulating splines preparing for humans reticulating spots

I do like however I do like what is this not a thing that you do no it 100% was living in the back of my memory and you just excavated it and I was not prepared for it I do like on this

there are some good elements I will say I like the what is the proper terminology for the mast cam yeah the mast head or the mask cam I do like that the mast head is there with Mars

as the lens? As the lens, yeah. That's nice. It's pretty cool. There's something here to work with, I think. Yeah, as they, it's like almost good. I think if they took off the outside, I might be into it. It's a little, it's a little, like, the patch designer took some LSD and drew up Mars 2020 logo.

But I like the basic elements here. Yeah. Yeah, I'm into it. Cool. Well, I don't know. You got a lot less on your list over there? That's mostly it. I mean, we could talk about logos for hours and hours and hours and we're missing.

I would like to do one more segment before we're done here with logos. Okay. I would like you to read your list with the single word that you applied to each logo. Okay, well, I only did it for Apollo, but I can definitely do that for you. Yeah, I would like that. So Apollo 7. Oh, I'm getting a delivery here. Thank you.

I got ice cream delivered. Wow. If anyone's on the fence about getting married, you haven't gotten any... You should get it. Any deliveries. Ice cream and beer. Okay, so I did Apollo.

So, okay, we'll start with seven. You ready? Okay, seven is meh. Are you going to bring these up as we go through them? Oh, you want me to? I thought this would be like a lightning round. Is there one you can bring up all of them at once, and then we can...

So you did these for the emission patches? Yeah, for the Apollo mission patches, starting with seven. I think this image will do. Okay, let's see it. Yeah, perfect. Okay. So starting, okay, I didn't do Apollo 1.

We don't need to do Apollo 1. I don't want to make any jokes about Apollo 1. Apollo 7, so the second one in the top left there. So, meh. Apollo 8, I got three check marks. Yes. Apollo 8's great. It's great.

Fantastic. You took one good idea, the 8. Yep. You did it, and you didn't waste any other time. I think now here's my one critique is I think this is one that should have had no crew member names I think this one should have been a plain one yep totally yeah uh nine meh 10 is all caps 3d graphics exclamation point exclamation point one uh Apollo 11 is classic yeah 12 I lull the chip 12 really nails the

the personality of Apollo's wealth totally Laugh laugh out loud 13 epic I think is probably the most epic I would have went with Tom Hanks Because all I picture is him in that In the You had that back Like the realistic background on

Was that Apollo 13 Like he was in that like physical set Right on that on that show? From the Earth to the Moon Yes thank you Malcolm That was the show that had him on the physical set like there was almost this section of the show that was not the drama, but it was like this kind of exposition on the show in general.

And he had the horses behind him, I think, on that episode. Maybe I'm just imagining this, but I thought he had a physical set of those horses. Hmm. Yeah. I don't remember that. It's crazy. Now I need to watch it again. Malcolm says I'm right, so I'm going with it.

Tough for me. I got to watch it again. All right. We'll have to get him on the show to talk about it. Yeah. I think he's recovered at this point. point. 14 meh.

Yeah. 15 meh. None of them are good, other than 11 and 8. Boring 16. Maybe this is offensive to Americans, but the Eagle thing is played out, guys. You got to move on.

And 17 was, okay, I'm into it. Apollo 17 is a little bit like the guy that designs stuff for the U.S. Postal Service got a hold of mission patches for a minute. Yeah, there's some weird, there's some weird aesthetics there.

Yeah, and you can really tell, like, how important the mission patches, like, or how visible they got through time in there, where it's just like, oh, shit, people are looking at these and they have to just get, like, really more, like, more regal and important and all that kind of thing. I think in general, the Gemini mission patches are way better across the board. They have a great program logo, the two with the two stars. they've got a couple of good ones in here or Gemini 7 we already talked about

Gemini 9 has what could be one of the coolest with the docking with the Agena Upper Stage and the tether There's a lot going on there Eight days are bust You like the Oregon Trail kind of reference there Man P. Conrad was a gem Both of his mission patches were just like

He's so strange So good, yeah The wagon just like No we're putting a wagon And, like, they fought him on that, too. He's like, no, we're putting a wagon on it. He's so weird. That's a weirdo.

I only have one more thing to show before we're done. Let's hear it. Do you have anything else? No, I'm all out. Okay. We should go out then on Soviet propaganda posters. Okay. Because they're just, I have no, like, particular favorite.

But if you just, like, Google, there's some, um, some site that's got, like, 61 of the best... Space Soviet propaganda posters. 61 sensational Soviet space posters? Just scroll through this and we'll put this link in the show notes so that everyone can look at it after. But I am in love with the Soviet space propaganda. It is just one of my favorite design. Who are these guys? Who cares?

I can't read it. I don't know who they are. I just like looking at it. Yeah, good. Someone put the link in the Discord so they can look too. But these are just... Oh, nice. These are just fantastic.

This is nice. There's like something so timeless about these like, I don't know. Because of their propaganda too, I think they have like... Oh, this guy's the best. There's such like a historical weight to these, you know? Look at this guy throwing this rocket. Yeah. See, there's good use of orange and blue.

Right, totally, right there. Figure it out. Wow, this is worth a scroll through for everyone just listening. Really? Yeah. Like you need to click on this link. There's 61 posters. Oh, look at that. Valentina.

Wow. These are great. They're so good. Good, Karen. And I love how they like, they have all these pictures of the rockets and they're not the actual rocket that they flew. I haven't seen one that is even a realistic thing at all. That one looked kind of like a proton, I think.

But like... This guy here? Yeah, I think that's a proton. That is a little proton. You can see the... But like a bunch of them are just like some made up... rocket that doesn't exist. And like, why wouldn't you put a picture?

I guess they're kind of trying to hide what the design looks like, right? Getting some comments in the Discord from our resident Russian here, Flat Noise, who said one of the posters just has text that says there is no God. There is no God. Bow to your proton rocket. They're so good, though, right? Yeah, these are pretty amazing. And like, something that you know, in the same way that I feel about the NASA worm,

like, you know when this was. Perfect. 100%. Damn, great, great link, Jake. Yeah. So that's it. You got any picks? I have a pick, yeah.

It's very fitting for today because today is the 50th anniversary, as we're recording this, of the Apollo 13 launch, which ended up being a pretty interesting mission. And they're doing the Apollo 13 in real time. This is Ben Feist, I think is his name. Does these great websites. You can load this website up. It's like a console. and it has a video that's applicable and pictures that are applicable, and it goes in real time through the mission timeline.

You can hear the loop. You can see the pictures. You can see the video. You can see the text of the transcript. And you can just watch the mission as it goes. So it kicked off, you know, today. Here, you've got it up on the screen here. Is this the one?

That's the one. So it hit now, and it'll take you right to what's going right now. So they launched a couple of hours ago, so they should be. And we copied the, Mila said they had no FM. So that's why I had you go to the TV. probably still in Earth orbit. Looks like it by the picture there. Current velocity,

27,000. Yeah, so they're still in Earth orbit. This is so cool. You can just watch the mission go. They did this for Apollo 11, and I think Apollo 17 they've done already. But they had this one going, and it's just, yeah. There are so many buttons to click.

I'm like, overwhelmed. I want to click all of them. What do I do with all these buttons? I don't know. I haven't even fully explored it all. You can, all the different audio loops and stuff, and it just happens in real time and plays it all towards you. So you can really just like experience the mission. This is such a cool way to show off all the information about this there.

Or are they doing, what do they? Oh, you can move to head. I don't know. I don't know what any of these timestamps mean. You're just clicking stuff. Quite frankly, I'm just clicking around. So, listeners, if you want, I mean, this is, we're streaming this live on Saturday, the 11th, which is a launch. day, but it's going to be playing out over the next week, right? And so you can pop in and see

what's going on with this. And you can manually, of course, jump to whatever time you want. So if you want to see the launch, if you want to see Houston, we've had a problem, you can just jump right to that spot and see what it's like. But it's, that's awesome. I love it. All right, he's getting his now. The dead air was me stepping away for this. So I have, our main topic of the show is the NASA worm. I have in my hands a reprint of that graphics manual that Jake referenced early in the episode. So this is available for free as a PDF, which was linked to by the J.B. Post about the worm coming back. So you can scroll through it on that PDF, but this was maybe, I have no idea what year this was, but I kickstarted this way back in the day. This group got a hold of all the original copies of the NASA Graphics Standard Manual for the worm and did a full reprint that includes

I'm trying to get to the good pages because there's some really good pages in here. Did you scroll through this at all when it was linked to in that post? No, I looked at this. I think when the Kickstarter came out, I browsed through it and I almost bought this.

I'm regretting that I didn't buy it. There are full page foldouts of how to use the worm on various types of vehicles. You need this in your life, even if you're a worm hater. Look at this van. It's so powerful.

Perfect. It's like, it's the exact kind of van you shouldn't get into if a kid, if some guy offers you candy, but it's got NASA on the side. Especially because it says aerospace education unit. This is us rolling up the DM2 in the aerospace education unit. Yeah, it's perfect. Look at these. Do you want a pickup truck with the NASA worm on it? Would you like one of those? I think I rode one of those buses.

Yeah, would you like, would you like a bus with the NASA worm? on it, here's how to display it properly. Like, that is some thought put into the whole design system, right? That's so cool. And that was the point of why the worm was so great. This is one of the premier examples of a design manual for a logo.

This is still to this day, like one of the gold standards. 100%. There's, now it goes into a lot more, like, how to use it on NASA paperwork and what papers should be like, yada, yada. there's so much in here there's the story of the worm itself there's a little bit of a of a prologue to this um

it's this if you are if you are a worm lover like i am this is a gold mine that is one of my favorites to just flip through for good design inspiration just look at this like having this hard copy it's so thick and there's so much there's so much going on there you're like oh it's the logo what more can you learn about it you're like no here's how many pages is that it's like uh there's not really page numbers. It's got to be like 100 or 200 pages. It's a lot. It's a lot of pages. There's a lot going on there. It's perfect. Yeah.

I'm just flipping through it because it's just wonderful. Here's a good page. There's this old like shuttle art. This is wonderful. So anyway, you can scroll through the PDF. You should scroll through the PDF, but it's

if you want to have something in your house that people are like, oh, ooh, the nessa worm, and then start flipping through it. And they're like, they had ideas. for how they should be on pickup trucks? Like, why did they do that? This is the thing you need in your life. Yeah, it's really good. I love it.

It's a great pick. Perfect pick for this episode. So, again, don't spend the money if you don't want to. Just download the PDF. But if you want to have a great, high-quality book in your life, it's pretty expensive. It's like 80 bucks. Not going to be honest. For a book that you're not really going to read.

You're just going to like that. I read it, but like, you're ready. You would have read it to you. Okay. So how much margin should I have below the NASA font but above the Helvetic text? Like, where do I? SpaceX is going to need it when they put the worm on Starship and they go get Hubble. And it's going to be one of the greatest days.

Yeah. It's going to be great. We got the stats in the Discord here, 220 pages, 9.5 by level. Yeah, so it's like a big book. Cool. Look at all that stuff. It's high quality. It's high quality book.

Yeah. Printed in Italy. Only the best. Hmm. You'd think they would have got a red-blooded American publisher to do that. Well, you know. Andy, this has been fun. This is a really cool episode. Great episode. Horrible audio content. I'm sorry for everyone listening. You are just going to be sitting there, Googling for an hour. You can watch the whole Twitch stream again on Twitch.

Soon. You've got to get on it soon. 14 days or something. Also, we had a stream outage at some point. I don't know how this is going to turn. turn out in video on demand format. Get to it quick. Get to it quick. But yeah, you can see you in real time. We're going to try and do this more, I think. This is a really fun, different way to do the podcasting.

So I hope you guys liked it. Quick boot camp update. Jake, you have graduated? Mm-hmm. I have graduated. So I am done my formal education, as formal as ever would have gotten. We did a final project, and I built this cool little app. called Book People with a friend of mine.

And we put together. So it was like a two-week kind of demo thing. And what is really exciting is that I'm actually going to be continuing work on it now that I'm done to build it into a production app that you guys can use, listeners. So the idea is basically you can, as a community, we're going to kind of collect spacebooks that we want to recommend to read. and you'll be able to use this to get recommendations for different books if you're all in that kind of stuff. So we'll put that NASA one on there.

We'll get that right in there as a book recommendation. And so if you want to participate in that and, you know, submit books and stuff, we'll be opening that up to the patrons of both WeMarsians and Miko. And if you want to just use it because you're not a subscriber, that's fine too. You can kind of build little wish lists and things like that. So I'm working on that. I don't have a good timeline for you. I'm not good at estimating how long things take in the web development yet. Pro tip. Even when you're good, you don't have a good estimate. Yeah.

You know, I thought that, well, I knew. See, also Elon Musk. Yeah, the first thing that I wanted to build after I graduated was to take like the demonstration and do user authentication, right? Because you got to be able to like log in and save your stuff. And I was like, I know this is going to be the biggest like part of making it production. But oh my God, it's like huge. Like just trying to integrate Patreon and through OAuth and off zero for all this stuff. So it's a whole thing. But anyway, I'm working on it.

I feel like I have a good head wrapped around it now. So you should see it reasonably soon. And I hope that that's kind of a cool value add for all the people that are supporting us on Patreon. Boom. Boom. I guess I'm a web developer now.