Off-Nominal - 63 - Something Philosophical About Croissants

Episode Date: May 26, 2022

Space potter Amy Rae Hill joins Jake and guest host Debarati Das for a discussion on space and art.TopicsOff-Nominal - YouTubeEpisode 63 - Something Philosophical About Croissants (feat. Amy Rae Hill and Debarati Das)Follow AmyAmy Rae Hill (@amyraehill) | TwitterAmy's Website | AmyRaeHill.comFollow DebaratiDebarati Das (@spacewicca) | TwitterEnterStellerCo | EtsyFollow JakeWeMartians Podcast - Follow Humanity's Journey to MarsWeMartians Podcast (@We_Martians) | TwitterJake Robins (@JakeOnOrbit) | TwitterOff-Nominal MerchandiseOff-Nominal Logo TeeWeMartians Shop | MECO Shop

TLS and go for main engine, start. Go at Brattle Home Eco. Welcome to space. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the show. We're here. We made it. It's my second go at this, doing this without Anthony,

and I think it went a little smoother, so I hope that the production is good this time, everybody. Thank you. So I'm really pleased to welcome to awesome people to the show. So Anthony is still away. He's still finishing up his vacation, so we have a special co-host, Debrati, Das. Welcome to the show. Thanks for helping me out this week. Hello, I'm so excited to be here.

Yeah, yeah. And then our guest of honor, Amy Ray Hill, do you like the full name? What's the deal? Three names is always a gamble. Well, there's already an Amy Hill that's famous and has like a Googlable name. So I was just like, my name is so simple and boring. I need to put in my boring little name. Isn't that a thing with Google things? Isn't that a thing with actors because like an actor's name becomes like a company name? And so if someone's already been like that, you have to change it. It's like the whole like Michael Jordan thing, right?

Michael, there's the actor who has to add. What is it like a P or something that they add in there? Michael P. Jordan or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. My gosh. I didn't think I would have that problem with my name because it seems unique. But apparently not. There are a lot of Barthi Dosses in the world.

Yeah, I imagine there are. Ever going to add that middle name? No. We don't even have middle names, so... Oh, okay. That means you get to pick one then, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Get to make one up. Barthi Janice. They're also. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. All right. So Debrati, Janice, Das here to help co-host.

Now it's stuck like that forever. Why don't we do some drinks? What do you guys have? Maybe Debrati, do you want to start? Yeah, I have. So it's four here, so pre 5 p.m. my planet mug, which changes color. It goes eclipse when it's nothing in there or it's cold. And for post five, I have my perseverance, non-alcoholic drink, pretending to be tapy hour.

I also have my meteorite non-alcoholic drink. Wow. Great bruise. That's awesome. Cool. Super cool. Amy, what have you got? So, yeah, it's 1 p.m.

and I still have to teach some classes later. So I'm going to avoid any alcohol at the moment. But I have my nice new cup that I painted for myself, my one, like, tea set that I did recently. And this is funny because the last time I was on an interview, it was unlawful. it was unfired and I showed the unfired version and now is the fired version that I can actually use. Thanks and I don't have any space tea for it yet but I did pick up something from a local tea shop called Friday afternoon tea in Seattle and they have some cool kind of like nerdy teas and stuff so the one I'm drinking is called Dorian Gray and it's kind of got some black tea yeah green tea ginger root blue corn flour it tastes good tastes like I am going to reduce my age, but there's no promise of that on the label. But yeah, it's good so far.

Sick literature joke. So I was not feeling particularly adventurous today. So I just like, well, this is doing weird stuff too. So I just like grab some stuff from what I had. And there's this like there's this juice down here that I'm like obsessed with. It's like this pineapple coconut juice. It's basically like peanut colada juice, like really when you get down to it. So I just, like, mix that with some rum and put a lemon in it.

So it's kind of fancy. I think I actually made it really cold because it's, like, freezing out here. I might need to stir this with my finger off screen so that it doesn't get too bad. I don't know what your definition of adventurous is. That sounds pretty adventurous. Oh, you should have seen the weird thing I had last week, so this is very tame considering. Sounds really good. Yeah, it is good.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you can't go wrong with rum and fruit juice. It's like, you know. Just a win some. Classic. So, yeah, so Amy, we're going to talk about some of the stuff that you make as, is it basically your job now? Are you making space pottery as your full-time job now?

Is that? Yeah. I mean, and I have to clarify, I don't make the pottery part. I do order in the bisque. So it's already been fired once pottery that I will glaze and then fire a second time, technically, in the whole grand scheme of things. So I still, you know, I still consider myself sort of a ceramic artist. I'm just not doing the throwing phase of it.

But yeah, it is my full-time job with a couple classes I teach on the side now. And I feel super lucky about that, that people want to spend their hard and money on my art. I never really imagined that would be a reality. But it has happened. Yeah, that's like the dream, right, when you can turn the hobby into the job. And it's something that you enjoy painting too, like subject matter that you actually really are passionate about. And then other people like to, like that crossover is not. often the case. So very, very lucky.

So as I have to ask then, so like my first kind of big question is, is how do you get into it, right? So did you like, were you, ultimately what came first? Was it like you, you had like a bunch of teapots lying around? You're like, wow, I could really make these better or were you just like you wanted to make something spacey and you're like, I need something to put these on and then order some teapots? You know, how did it start? Well, it was kind of a perfect storm. It's kind of like a long story of how it all like came together at one time. But so basically I was working at a paint your own pottery studio. There's probably some around your houses wherever you are. But they, I came into that world because I left sort of the acrylic painting world,

a job that the previous job I had, I had to sign a non-compete contract where like I couldn't paint on canvas for like two years after I left working for them, which I look back, it's so ridiculous. That's a weird NDA. And I know it's not that enforceable now, but I was like, like, 23 or something, and I just didn't really want to like get into it and deal with that. So I had to figure out something to do where I wasn't painting on canvas for like two years. And I'm like, okay, I'll just find something.

But my peer from school at Western up in Bellingham, Washington, she, kind of knew the situation I was leaving and she managed the local paint your own pottery studio and said we actually have a pretty good opening of a position where we're just creating for the first time here that we think you would be perfect for and so I went and applied and it was a creative lead at the studio so I would be kind of designing samples with the owner and creating like summer camp projects and things like that for the studio and then in addition and kind of working with customers and firing things, loading things,

doing all the behind-the-scenes stuff at the pottery studio. And so I was like, well, this isn't painting on canvas. It's painting on pottery. So this will be a way around that little contract. And so that worked out. And it turned out it was just like an amazing experience. The owner just knew the ins and outs of everything with pottery glazing. She had revolutionary techniques kind of laid out.

in a really organized way that she would like teach to other studio owners around the country. And so I learned so much from her. I didn't know anything about pottery painting because I hadn't done it since I was like seven making little plates with my parents or something like that. So I had a lot to learn. It was a definite learning curve,

but I just figured that I really liked seeing that transformation of the glazes where they look so different before they go into the kiln and then seeing them kind of get cooked to almost 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. and how those colors change, the little surprises that happen. Sometimes you have good surprises, sometimes bad surprises. So I fell in love with the medium. Then at the same time, getting into the space element of it,

I was super interested in this little text adventure game called Lifeline, where you talk to a little astronaut and you're trying to save them, get them off a moon or whatever. And it's a very short little game, but it had a really great community around it, and we kind of had like weekly streams. And I guess I was really like holding on to it because at the time, my dad was going through cancer treatment

and it was, things were going downhill. So it was kind of just like one of those things you could rely on and have a little bit of an escape. So that's kind of my first connection to the sci-fi genre that I really wanted to take that and then make some art based off it. I always like to make fan art or things that I'm inspired by at the time. So one night at like a painting night we had at the studio,

I just decided to take some of the techniques I'd learn there and then use them to make a moon plate where I kind of just used like paper masking to make the shape of the moon and then sponging on some of the color. And when I saw how it kind of came out, I was like, well, this is even cooler than I could do with any other medium. And I just thought of like 50 million different things I could do with space on pottery.

And so from there, I just kind of kept rolling with it and trying out new things. And it's definitely changed over the last, what has it been like, six years now. Whoa. That sneaks up on you, right? Yeah, so all of that kind of came together at like the right time. And it just kind of took off from there. I guess my art was kind of stagnant before then. And so this really got me back into it.

Yeah. That's interesting. I was wondering if there was going to be a, because you said Western Washington University, Is that what it was? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a pretty important contingent of the Mars science community out of that university, right? So because Dr. Melissa Rice is there and she runs Mass Cam on the Perseverance Rover, right?

So, yeah, I was wondering. And I wasn't anywhere related to that when I was there. Okay. I wish that I had known that, though, or had that interest then so I could appreciate that when I was there. It's so amazing. Sorry. No, go ahead. Go ahead.

It's just amazing that. the science people somehow find the art people and the art people find the science people. I was just about to ask, do you find yourself thinking more about space or the science as you're doing the art? Because I found that a lot and it in fact helps me with the science, especially when I have things that art that's related to space. It just gets me thinking in a way that just academia wouldn't get me thinking. You know, like the, I got to get a proposal lane or like, I got to get this done. It doesn't help me with the out of box thinking. Does that kind of happen with you?

Yeah, I guess in a way, like I think that you're right that the creative problem solving that goes into art making is probably different than like creating a research paper or something like that. You're kind of maybe thinking on your feet as you go a little bit more as you're dealing with factors. of like timing as you're putting down certain colors or layering things a certain way or even when it comes to how do I create a sense of light on this planet or moon versus something that's a star and you've got to know the science behind know how the light is going to hit something that yeah is either generating its own light or getting light bouncing off of another star in the distance how far away is it you know what is the material on this surface and um i definitely take some liberties with that. But it's finding the balance of, yeah, studying that scientific side and then

creating something that's aesthetically pleasing, too, which I'm sure you're familiar with also. Oh my gosh. I'm looking at these pictures that Jacob has pulled up, and these are so marvelous. They're all very close to a lot of space illustrations that I see, and this is exactly what gets your thoughts working about, okay, what is the scientific process, which is why I think, scientists gravitate so much towards artists and I think artists gravitate towards scientists and the whole NELD is just so beautiful. Yeah I totally agree. They're not so different from each other really. I mean I feel like that's that's been the issue of like people put them on the opposite ends of the spectrum and then I think you know maybe

artists think there can't be research and data in their art you know and that be relevant and I think there's a lot of bias in the art world about that and then maybe in the the scientific field, there's the sense that there's not enough room for creativity. I can't speak to that as much. But like, I hope that there is more overlap so that we can appreciate kind of both areas of thinking. You know, it's really fun on though. It's a really funny stereotype too because it doesn't make any sense. Like that for as long as like we've been doing art and as long as we've been doing science, they've been like really interconnected. Like you can even go back. You know, think of someone like like a historical figure like Da Vinci who like did. Right.

Both, like a ton of both. Like, that's just like right away from hundreds and hundreds of years ago we were doing that. You go to a science conference. The best posters are always the ones that are well put together and have composition and artistic elements, not just big white sheets with walls of text. So, like, that's a big part of it. And then, you know, even just thinking about like the space industry today, like you can, you can't go down to a rocket launch now without a whole bunch of like really talented creative

photographers cataloging the whole thing and showing the amazing stuff they're doing. Like these have always been like connected at the hip. And I think it's just a weird. It's weird that it's played out this way that like it's there. We have to put effort into connecting them somehow. I don't know. It's that's my rant. Yeah, it is strange because it is it's not a reality at all because you're right.

Like both of them are always connected and like the people who design logos for different space companies. That's been there too. I mean like I think it's maybe coming down to the way we educate kids early on and we separate them so much in that sense. And maybe that's where it starts. But yeah, I don't know. I guess you're right.

It's a complete lie. We're probably not going to be able to unpack the psyche of the education system. I don't know. Oh, man. It's also, there's a little, I've discussed this a lot with my female scientist friends, Tony Harrison being one of the big people who's involved in art and science with me. we often see that it's considered to be less or less serious to be involved in arts and crafts and it's not as serious as science.

Or it's like a thing for girls, only girls do arts and science and, you know, home management kind of a thing. So there's this social perception that paying attention to art or paying attention to illustrations or something beautiful is more of a thing for women or thing for kids and it's not as serious, but that's where we missed the point, I think, because we need to communicate our science to people who understand science as natural processes

and things that we all should understand. So I think that's something that not only do we see a problem in the way we educate people, but the way we perceive academia, too. So it's just not that great because great signs has great art and great communication. And I think you hit the nail on the head there too with like how it's seen maybe as a more feminine thing or and also correlating to that like maybe less valuable or less like scientific in a way. And that's not the case either because, you know, I went to school, studied art

with other like men who are taken very seriously and things like that. And I think that I don't, I don't know, it does seem like that there's kind of a lot of, yeah, femininity attributed to like space art and in a certain context and things like that. And I don't know that that devalues it at all. Like, it's like, I don't know where that idea has come from where some people feel like it's just about being beautiful or it doesn't, couldn't have a message behind it or something like that. And I think that it deserves a lot more thought and consideration and a little bit less bias sometimes. So, yeah, I think that it's definitely try.

People can try to put it in a certain box when it doesn't have to be. So where do you get like your inspirations for what you want to paint on these? So I guess are you like a space fan? Like are you following missions and stuff day to day? I don't know what level of like deep into the well you are with us. Like, and where do you draw your inspirations to put stuff on these pieces? Not super deep. I can tell you that.

I'm not a scientist. I have my education in art. So I have light knowledge from when I study different projects, researching images, the nature of like the landscape that I'm trying to paint. So I definitely am not. an authority on anything scientific happening, but I am fascinated by some major events that do happen with, you know, rover landings and things like that. So for me, it's kind of more about a metaphorical sense of exploration and trying to be open-minded to new worlds and possibilities.

And so I take real scientific data and images sometimes to create those images, but ultimately I want them to be some sort of like kind of quiet moment of contemplation that you can experience in your home and not necessarily have to be in a gallery to think about. So it's kind of taking you by surprise a little bit in that sense. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm, you know, I'm seeing, so that one we looked at there was was like the, I think that was the curiosity heat shield coming off. I've seen some ones with little ingenuity helicopter flying around on here. And so I figured you had to be somewhat connected to, yeah, there's, these ones are really cute too. So. So yeah. So you actually take some actual data. Oh, perfect. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

So you actually take some real data to you to like to start with some of these pieces as well? I mean, mostly it is photographs. So I think that's where most of it comes from. So I would take, you know, just clips from like the video of the heat shield falling and things like that. Anything I get is usually from customers who have, who are either a lot of times scientists themselves and they'll give me some of their research or even their astrophotography they've done. So that's kind of where I would get it from if I am doing any sort of project like that. Okay, okay. Hmm, okay. Do you have a favorite project that you got, that you got a commission for, and you were like, this I really loved.

Oh, I've done so many now. I don't know. That's hard to say. Okay. You love them all. I think from like the last time I really liked doing, there was one with three astronauts who were kind of discovering a plant under a green nebula. And so I kind of like ones that have a little bit of a narrative to them.

That one was really fun to create and I can imagine a story behind it. So, yeah, like I said, there's a lot that do come from like Hubble photography or the customer's own backyard astrophotography themselves that they do. but some of them are more in the imagination and thinking about like what's what is the relationship of these people on this planet or moon and what are they doing what are they discovering and i try to i like to keep it in in my sense of narratives that i like where it's being conscientious and kind and caring about other individuals so i like stories where i can kind of create a little snippet in time of people relating to each other in that way on a plate or a bowl or a mug or whatever else.

You must be stoked for the incoming influx of James Webb Space Telescope pictures because it's going to be a whole new generation of stuff to stick on these pots, right? Yeah, absolutely. I'm super excited to see what comes out of that. And hopefully I can keep up with it with my artistic experience too. I mean, and that's the other thing is it's not just like trying about, trying to match the photography that I see. I'm trying to also bring my own artistic style to it. And because those photos themselves are art. So they're standalone pieces of art, I think.

And I think I should be adding to it, not just kind of like trying to take it and use it for myself, I guess. Yeah, yeah. So speaking about keeping up then. So you take commissions on your site and it seems to me, because I've wanted to grab something for a while and I keep missing these windows for like commissions. It seems like you're pretty busy is what I'm getting at here. And even one of the viewers here was looking and he says that here the Etsy shop is empty. So that either means you're not working very hard or you're doing very well. I assume it's the second one.

But do you want to talk a little bit about commissions? So where does it look like if someone wants to get something from you? So I, yeah, I open commissions every few months and it is open for less than an hour, usually, or maybe even a few hours. But then it closes back up and there's nothing in there. So, yeah, it's often empty. But I can only do so much when every project is very detailed. And I try to get a sense of what the customer really wants and what they're

looking for. So it does take some time to make sure everything's done to the highest quality. And I have on my website, there's a commission's kind of guidelines page where you can see the kind of things that I do and sort of the parameters of how it works and how the glazes interact with the pottery. So you can see what might work better than others in terms of colors or design and things like that. And then customers give me their top three ideas and we pick from the best one. I always try to make the first idea work out if possible. And so it's kind of a dialogue and conversation with the customer to see how to fit their idea into a finished piece. And I do probably like 30 to 40 every few months, which I feel like it's kind of a lot when I think about how many commissions people tend to open up during a season. and some people do like three or four.

So I think I do fit quite a few in for as far as custom designs go. But I realize that this is a little bit of a tangent, but I saw something recently where it was like someone realized there's two types of artists out there and people who are, what was it? I'm not going to say it as eloquently as they did, but people who are more concerned with like the idea phase and people who are more concerned with the execution phase.

And I think I realized I am like one of the, those execution phase artists where I enjoy taking someone's idea and figuring out a way to effectively communicate that on a piece of artwork. And like, I like that middle phase and getting to the finished product. And some people don't like that. And they just want it to be done and want to get to the idea and have their unique idea displayed for everyone to see, which is a super interesting way of doing it too. And I never knew other people didn't function the same way my brain did. It's so cool to see the different sides of artists, I guess, in that sense. So I think that's why commissions work really well for me, ultimately.

Yeah, yeah. I might be one of those people. I sometimes get real frustrated when you get into the middle part where all the hard work is. I want to like, I want to like have inspiration and then have the pretty thing at the end. And then I don't want to do any of this stuff. Yeah, I didn't even know that was a type of artist or creator. I was like, oh, wow, that's cool, though. I think that's evident looking.

That's evident looking behind you there. I see there's quite a few teapots there. So it seems like you've got a little bit of a factory going on here. Are there certain things that work better in this medium? Like the glaze and the firing, that seems like a pretty specific way. I don't know. I'm like way on a limb here. I don't know as much about this stuff.

But like are there particular kinds of pictures that work better for that and some that maybe just don't work at all? Oh yeah, I would say like I tend to have to steer people away from like color schemes where there's a lot of overlapping patches of different warm versus cold colors everywhere because the way it works is like I'm layering colors on top of each other and then I'm kind of digging back through to reveal some of those other first colors that I put down and so it has to be sometimes like a blanket of color. So and then trying to predict where different colors are underneath the top layers of colors can be really difficult. And so things that are kind of similar in color scheme tend to work better. I also, with this glaze, you can only, with most glazes, you can only do just a certain amount of layers. So I can't do more than like three thick coats of glaze usually to make sure that there's no like air bubbles that come through or I don't get like, where all the glaze would just fall off the piece after like all your hard work and then it just cracks off. So I have to consider that too and not think about like two complex color schemes or yet layering too many times.

So generally just thinking in that direction. And it can only be so complicated too because all these surfaces, sometimes they're only like three inches big. So I have to kind of think about how I do this in a minimal sense. That's why a lot of like the astronaut figures are sometimes in silhouette to keep them simple and clean without kind of messing up some of the details things like that. So there's just a lot of little tricks you kind of learn over time. Yeah, these are these are awesome. This one's my favorite by the way. So these craters here in the, because I guess that's the moon, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's I went through this whole thing beforehand. I think that's my favorite one. So Oh, thank you. Those were. fun yeah that's another one similar color scheme that works really well because you can just

layer it down and dig through and a lot of those lines are etched away into the glaze and that one especially i thought was interesting to look at when it was before it was fired so you could see that kind of more matte texture to it instead of the glossy finish where it looked a lot like the surface of the moon yeah i love the jupiter one does any of this kind of happen to happen to do with like reactions that make weird patterns. I'm completely ignorant about this process, so does that actually happen? These are more like paints, these glazes. They're kind of like what you'd find like at those local pottery studios and studios and things like that. So they don't actually change as much as a lot of other glazes would and these, they're low fires. So which is only 1,830 degrees

Fahrenheit. the relatively cool temperatures. So that's also why they don't transform quite as much, but they do maintain their rich color, and they also don't move as much. You'll see every single brush stroke that you make if you're not careful. So you have to be very deliberate in, like, how you apply it. So oftentimes I'm using like a sponge to make the marks instead of a paintbrush,

because I know it won't leave that kind of a mark, and then layering a certain amount to make it smooth enough, to get the right blending to happen. But yeah, these glazes are not going to kind of interact with each other in that much of a chemical sense to change their form. They're completely the opposite direction where they will stay exactly where you put them, be the exact color they're going to be all the time. So they're not super forgiving. Wow, you must be really, really patient.

Really, really. I think it's just studying like six different colors for like six years, not like, Not like expanding it beyond that to try and get a good control over it. I'm looking at your Twitter feed here, and there's a good example of kind of what it looks like before. So this is the one you're drinking out of right now, I think. Is that the one? Yes. Yeah.

So I don't know, this looks really interesting how it, how very, I guess, yeah, it's very matte, right? It's very like rough. There's no shine to it. So maybe that kind of showcases a little bit of what it looks like before and after. And where's that? Yeah. And there's certain colors that will change more than others. And you'll see a lot of times the blue fades because it's so transparent.

So it allows the other colors to come through it. That was probably the hardest color to really get a handle on because it would look so bright before getting fired. But then it just has a nice subtle fade. So learning to use that to my advantage was really necessary. Yeah. And I was just happy with the way that the pink came through it then. So it's always a guessing game. Like I put down probably five or six different colors,

pushing and pulling, taking away, putting more on to get like the right, the right hue to come through. And so sometimes you just got to cross your fingers and hope for the best. And this was one of the more like successful times, I feel like. So this one you said is for you. So do you have to, like imagine you'd use like stuff for yourself as like ways to experiment with new technique stuff. So do you have just like a huge like cabinet of your own stuff of all the like weird experiments and like reject teapots and stuff like that? I wish. I never have time. So that's why my commission guidelines are so strict

because I try to keep to the things that I know will work out. But for a while, I've held on to a couple things I've wanted to experiment with. I have another matte black glaze that I wanted to try. I've been wanting to test out a little bit of gold glaze that is actual shiny kind of gold coloring. So we'll see how that works, but it's going to require a different, a little different firing process. So we'll see.

And I've had some other experiments with, like, texture. I've tried to use, like, little pebbles and stick them into the glaze, which, of course, isn't food safe. It would have to be more, like, for a display bowl or something to make a rocky surface. They didn't stick super well. So I'd have to play around with that a little bit more. But, yeah, there's a few experimental pieces that never saw the light a day. Yeah, I was hoping there was, like, some Quasimoto cups or something somewhere.

Yeah. I remember when I worked at the pottery studio, me and my boss were experimenting with kind of higher fire colors like you were asking around. And just there was some like these low fire glazes trying to look like high fire colors. And we must have tested like up to like 10 things that just like never came out as we wanted it to and eventually just kind of gave up on it. But yeah, it's been a while since I've done a lot of like failed experiments. I've tried to be like conservative. in like what I'm managing in my commissions at least trying to get a good handle on like what I can really confidently achieve. Yeah, yeah. What's that what's the biggest thing you've made? Someone's asking in our chat. I wish I could make something even bigger, but I guess not very big. The biggest bowl I've made is probably a little over 13 and a half inches. So a large kind of like fruit bowl. Large pizza. But yeah, potentially I could do something a lot bigger. I have a big enough kiln to do something that's like a few feet tall. So you just give me another idea.

Big, big flower, like tree, tree vase or something, right? Like you'd have a big garden or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen some people hand throw giant jugs like that and it just makes me so nervous watching something of that size be handled and then put into a kiln and just hoping nothing's got a crack or broken or any of the glaze is going to have issues. like this gets so nervous.

Yeah, yeah. Wow, pottery has never given me this much anxiety. Thank you about the process. Yeah, it's not exactly great if you're trying to like hear anxiety. Add a little bit to it. It's so calming afterwards. Yeah. What's your favorite part of the painting process, Navarotti?

Me, I think it's, there's an idea and there's the execution. And like you said, there's a process and there's a difference. There's a difference in my brain and there's a difference in my abilities. So that difference is fascinating to me. That's the worst thing that humans have right there, by the way.

It's like our biggest fault. Yeah, yeah. In my brain, it looks great. You know that meme where it says expectation versus reality and it looks like crap in reality? So I try to shake it as like, I guess that's what I can do and work from there. And it is sometimes my not-so favorite part and sometimes my favorite part.

I've definitely had that experience of like, I think it was not too long ago. I had to go and make, I was making a design like an illustrator and I had been noodling it for like weeks ahead of time. I was like, yeah, I think it looked good like this. And I had come up with this amazing, amazing thing. And then I went and I finally sat down. And I put like an hour and I got this thing together and I looked at it. I'm like, this is awful. This is just atrocious.

This is the worst thing I've ever looked at. I just like deleted it immediately and ran from my computer. Sometimes you need a little bit of that time to back away from it and then come back to it later and then you can reassess. And sometimes it doesn't go on the garbage. Sometimes you can just take it in a new direction. Sometimes that's how you put the bad ideas to bed though. You know, you just got to do it and see what it looks like. But sometimes I feel like other people can see more value and things that we really, really dislike as artists or creators.

Some people will see and say that, wow, that's amazing. For example, if any of Amy's Quasimoto, if I see them, I would be like, oh, my gosh, please take my money. I want those. But yeah, that's also another fascinating perspective when other people see things that you've decided to kind of shelf. Yeah, you need to open up a section on the site for like, for like, it's like the IKEA as is section of the space pottery. Well, this one, this one was a reject that I didn't sell. I guess I can show you like what's going on with this. I don't know if you can see it very well. There's a little bit of like black glaze that got into the top of it. Let's see if I can show it to

the camera. Yeah, it just got a little, it's probably hard to see, but it got a little black glaze on the top and I was like, oh, that's too much. And then the side of the side. of it got a little bit too light down by the horizon and the rest of it isn't like that. So to me it's really obvious and I'm like, oh, I wouldn't want to get that to somebody. But, you know, who knows? Yeah. I want to buy that. Like, it has ingenuity on it and a little rover and I don't.

Awesome. Yeah, yeah. You're grossly overstating our expectations. Exactly. Yeah. Well, this one didn't get sold either. I had another, all the things I keep are the rejected ones. This one was shivering, which it was heartbreaking because I really like this one,

but it's this bowl with a moon landscape on it, and it's a swoop bowl. And I think this shape might be a little bit prone to shivering. Some pottery is kind of like that. How do I tell this the right way? I am so bad at getting the angle right. But there's this little tiny, tiny, tiny little spot on the top right down here. and it kind of flecked away. And so if you keep chipping at it,

the whole thing's going to come off. And it just makes me sad. But it's not safe. So, no, go ahead. I'm going to move on. So if you have something. It's fascinating that there has to be so much attention to details. And you said that you take 30 to 40 commissions a month.

That is. Well, every three months. So, or every two months, I guess. Nine weeks. Okay. Yeah. still like 15 pieces a day, I'm sorry, 15 pieces a month. And that's like very fast turnover with a lot of attention to detail.

So that is even more impressive than what I'm seeing the images on Twitter. This is just like really, really amazing. Yeah, I mean, not every day of anything either. Like you have to do some days where you are just firing like putting all the clear glaze over it and putting it in the kiln, that can take a big chunk of your day, and some days are just photographing and editing. Editing takes so long to get all the photos to look just like they do in natural light, and that's my biggest anxiety is posting a picture where it didn't look like it does in real

life. So that's the thing that I think about all the time, and I know screens change things, so I'm constantly concerned about that. So there's a lot of other areas that take up a lot of time, too. How do you stay motivated through that? you know turning your your hobby and your love and your passion into a job as like there's risks to that right and you know I'm thinking I'm trying to imagine what it would be like for you but you might just get sick of teapots one day and I just

don't know like what you do to manage that in terms of keeping it keeping it fresh and fun and interesting to you so that you're you know you're happy yeah that's a good question I have really tried to avoid burnout by going very very slowly with the whole business process. And I have seen some other friends who have kind of put everything into it at once, and then it just kind of stopped after a few months. Because it was just too much. If you rely all of your income on something right away,

and then you feel pressure to make certain products that people will buy instead of doing something for yourself, that will quickly just burn out all of your energy to do this for fun. And so the minute it stops being fun is when I would change. And I've been very careful to keep my standards to a place where I'm never going to make something that feels like just ingenuous or something that would make me just kind of get bored of the subject matter. But I think that because I always love the variability of firing your paintings, like seeing how the transformation happens. has never gotten old. The other factor is that space art is such a broad spectrum

of what you could possibly create, that I never feel like it gets tired either. And I also am constantly thinking about real-life events that happen and responding to that and thinking of new ways to apply that to the medium and the genre. So, you know, my little astronauts are kind of fun little characters sometimes, but I am always thinking about how that might relate to like the time I'm living in.

right now and what they're doing in space and reacting to it with each other. And even like the nebulas that I paint, sometimes certain color schemes feel a certain way. So it just feels like a great backdrop for current events as well. And if I get tired of a certain shape, there's lots of other shapes of pottery I can try. There was a little bit of a crisis a couple months ago when the supply shortage just hit my supplier and I couldn't get teapots. So I had to figure out And I got some bases

So that did work out And they're really fun to paint too But you have to kind of just think on your feet And figure out a good solution as you go But honestly There's enough little parts I can change Where I don't feel like I'm going to Burn out anytime soon on it

So that's kind of what I've been going with Good for you Good for you Yeah that's because that's a hard thing I mean I struggle with that a lot Like Because I start doing this You know full time

about a year and a half ago now. And it's like, there's days. And I'm just like, oh, man, I'm just like, I'm burnt out. And all that pressure you talk about, I feel it. I feel it. Because it's like, it's your job now, right? And it's, yeah, it's tough sometimes. Yeah.

And I feel like I'm almost getting there, too, with like my teaching job was always on the side as kind of like a safety net too. And I'm doing less and less of that. So it feels like I'm getting to that point where I do have to rely on this all the time. and I'm just trying to be extra careful to make sure I, you know, it's keep saying no to things I don't want to do and, you know, keeping my commission guidelines really appropriate for, like, what I need for myself.

It's a form of self-care, I guess. They set up guidelines for how you want to run your business and make sure you're doing things always that, like, align with what you want. So, yeah, I feel you on that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Some of the listeners are suggesting you should try and do some rocket plumes, I just googled the Falcon one over LA, right?

These were such pretty pictures sometimes. I don't know. This looks like it might be doable. I don't know. You tell me, but. Yeah. I think, yeah, that's gorgeous, especially the one you have pulled up there. Nice soft blow of that light, similar colors to each other.

Yeah, I like that. All right. New inspo. So put it in your commissions, everybody, when you, when the next one opens up. You just did one recently, I think, right? So I think we have to wait a while probably. I know. I wish I had more stuff to show you, but you got here like right at the time where I'm just about to paint everything.

I've got a lot of ideas I've talked about with everybody. Everything's all planned out. And now I've got to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the middle part of the process now. Yeah, exactly. Cool. Okay.

You said you teach, I'm assuming you teach painting pottery. I don't actually. Oh, okay. Sorry, that was a wrong assumption. I teach art classes, but I don't teach pottery painting. I teach like drawing and comics and things like that, yeah. Oh, wow. Okay, cool. Interesting.

Does that, with the increasing number of years in teaching, does that change your art? Or does that influence your art? Does the teaching influence your art? Yeah, I think it does. I mean, I think that I definitely feel more well-rounded as an artist teaching it for sure, because you have to practice so many different styles and different mediums very, and to be able to show them quickly and confidently that you have to try and, you know,

expand your skills all the time. So that has definitely helped me. And I think kind of finishing quality, too, because I try to make sure that my students are seeing something completed and showing them proper technique. So it's helping me handle my materials a little bit more deliberately too. But maybe in a, because these are, I mean, it doesn't directly relate as much. I'm doing a lot of pen and ink work and pencil drawing and things like that. But I think that it just makes you kind of more well-rounded overall.

And I also just like interacting with the kids. Some of these kids I've known for like three or almost four years now, because they kind of stay in these extracurricular art classes for as long as they want to. And it's, I always learn from them too every single time. So they're always a source of inspiration as well. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Yeah.

I'm a big proponent of like teaching as a way to improve yourself. Like it's a weird, people don't know if they think of that way. It's like, oh, you're putting your knowledge and skills into other people. But it's like, no, it's super self-reinforcing and very valuable to teach other people stuff. Absolutely. I can definitely see how that. that goes. Cool. Okay. Yeah. So I mean, is there anything you can you can preview for stuff coming up? Like, is there any fun, exciting ones that you're really jazzed about? I don't know how

much you can tell us about special commissions you've got going on. Let's see. Well, I did tell people to do to ask for a black hole commission and I do have one of those coming up. Haven't painted it yet, but someone did ask for that. So you'll be seeing the Sagittarius A. star black hole on somebody's project. Awesome. Okay. Yeah. Otherwise, there's a lot of, a lot of people ask for eclipses this time. Yeah, I'm trying to think of trends. Sometimes there's trends. There's few Milky Ways in there. Not much else I can, I can comment on, but yeah, there should be some good ones for sure. What is the timeline to like from commission to, to receipt?

So it's a nine week processing time. and then things will ship after that. So depending on where you live, it could take anywhere from a few weeks if you're international to a few days after that. But I am in touch with people throughout because I show the process pictures of before the firing and then after the firing and then it gets approved and it gets sent out. But usually it does take the full nine weeks just because I have to kind of do it all together and it's more efficient for me to like fire a lot at one point

and then to unload and ship kind of everything together. So it does tend of taking that long. But it's a fun process. I hope people feel it's worth it and enjoy every part of it too. Yeah. Are you making any art just on the side for yourself, just for fun? Well, this teapot and mug was the last thing I made for myself. I really don't have a lot of time for my own projects anymore.

I wish I did. And then I'm always trying to read more books and I'm like get myself like more literate again reading better things. So, like, all the hobbies I want to do, that I consider like a hobby for myself, just making myself things. So it just doesn't get done very often. Maybe I do one thing, like, after every commission round

is like a reward. So every few months I'll make myself one thing. And that works for me. Maybe you should get some interns. I have thought about getting an employee at some point. And I've been too scared to do it, but I feel like I need to at some point for just some... Oh, why are you scared?

I it's another step of changing the business. It's a huge step. Yeah. I am scared to mess up. You know, because right now I'm a sole proprietorship and it's easy enough to take care of that way. So it's just a lot to think about. Yeah, yeah. The barrier to entry from from yourself to employees is like it's a big, it's a big jump.

Yeah. Yeah. I should do it at some point. It's just, yeah, eventually. Yeah. No, I totally understand that. So. Cool.

Okay. We're kind of getting near the end here. I don't know if we want to talk about other stuff that's coming up. Devarati, we haven't had a lot of chance to talk about some of your art. Do you want to maybe share with the viewers and stuff what you make? Because you're also an artist, which is the big reason why I brought you on here today. Sure, yeah. I love art.

I paint a lot of nature stuff. Here's one that I painted. It's a this one. It's a sunset, a very colorful sunset. I started painting things that relaxed me because academia can get really stressful sometimes. My research is Mars-based. I studied past water activity on Mars. So a lot of it was to take my attention away from it.

So I painted a lot of coffee and croissants and cakes. Often people ask me, why aren't you doing space art? And I would get really defensive. I'd be like, well, this is my hobby. I hear me right one with it. Yeah. Because I wasn't getting that jolt of creativity and inspiration from science. And then I started actually reaching out with like-minded people, with Tanya, with you guys.

And Tanya was the one who kind of got me really inspired about space art. And there are a lot of things in the space science community that I want to express. It's a lot of it is people-centric. It's people dynamics, being inclusive, the things that excite us. the sense of exploration. That's why I loved it when Jake asked you, what motivates you? That's important to me. I want to put that in terms of art and make people feel included as an Indian kid who grew up thinking that the space, I can't do space things because that's not really meant for me. That journey is important. So that's something I try to make my art about. And yeah,

that's pretty much my art. And so this is that. And I love how fun and colorful and vibrant. I feel like your art just takes you to like space, but in a fantastical level. And sometimes it's very dreamy. I just love, I love your style. Thank you. I wanted to be more than life because that's what space is, right? That's what exploration of space is. It's inspiration to see more, to think about what we will be seeing, and it's okay even if we don't quite reach there. And it's a lot, it's for a lot of people, like you said, it's a place of comfort away from the things that we see every day on earth, and it inspires us. So I really love. love seeing your pottery because sometimes I feel so relaxed.

Like this is basically cups with pictures on them that may resemble things that you do in real life. So it's really exciting. Yeah, I think that's, oh, go ahead. If you had a dream collaboration team that would supply you, different kinds of teas and little label drawings and little merchandise, what kind of, like, do you ever think? of that of like a collaboration with people in science and in the outreach community and pottery community, tea community. I don't know, do they have a tea community? There's definitely

a tea community. I think that I love collaborations. I did a couple recently, one just a few months ago. But yeah, I love your tea designs the way you incorporated that with space and your watercolor color paintings, just gorgeous. Like, I'm always open for things like that because I think, yeah, those are so fun. And creating the experience of packaging, like, all of this art together for someone is really nice, giving them the whole, I guess, just a multifaceted sense of space wonder with art. Gosh, I love it. Special thanks to Tanya Harrison here for taking these wonderful photos. And also, she talks, she has all these amazing ideas about collaborating with scientists and artists and creators basically. So I think we're just a really great community where we've

found each other. And I keep texting Jacob. Look, although all things we can do are Jake's like, hang. We're getting there. We're getting there. Just like calm down. Yeah, you and I have to talk to Brody sometime like with the tea and space whole idea. Could make something of that. We have to talk. Yeah. We need to do. We need to do. We need to do. We need. You need to do an off-nominal one too, some sort of astronaut with a beer, a beerstein or something like that. So, oh, I wanted to paint there. It was a cool, like, Pilsner Cup that I almost bought one time. I haven't gotten them yet, but I should experiment with, with that, some sort of beerstein, other kind of beer cup paint on that.

It'd be ceramic, but, you know, still work. All those traditional ones, like you get in Germany, right, those steins with the castles are all ceramic, right? That's true. Yeah. All right. Okay. I think we have some sufficient ideas to get us started here. You know, if you ever open a booth, sorry, if you ever open a booth in LPSC, you will sell out so fast.

Not that you're not already selling out so fast. You are, but I think in the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, folks who just lose their minds, me included. That's a good idea. Same for Jake if you, like, have any wee Martians. now that you've expanded to the rest of space, yeah. I think we're building a pretty good community where all the scientists are very happy to be a part of. Yeah. But these are the ones that I'm making, though. They're way less classy than yours. Yeah. That'll grab your attention. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a little spicier sometimes with the ones I'm making. So.

I was laughing too. You were talking about making them as a kid too, and I realized that I had, I found this one that I tweeted the other day. I found this in my mom's house when I was visiting home. Yeah, we all made art as a kid. See, look at that, guys. Look at that. Beautiful. I love that.

That's a great composition. It's an awful composition. Color scheme, too. They're all warm colors, so it would be easy to play. You don't have to be nice to four-year-old Jake, everybody. It's okay. He won't have his feelings hurt. I can find the goodness in any kid art.

There's always a nugget of beauty somewhere. Amy, if people want to find your stuff on the internet, where is the best place for them to go? My website, Amy Ray Hill, has a selection from my portfolio and just information about commissions as well, but I'm also on Instagram and Twitter and even TikTok at Amy Ray Hill. Wow, TikTok. Oh, yeah, trying to get in with the youths nowadays.

With the youths, yeah. See what's happening over there. That's awesome. Devarati, what about you if people want to look at your art? Etsy is the right place for it or what? There is Etsy where my collaboration with Tanya, you can find our artwork, Tanya's lovely ideas there. I have my own Instagram. It's called DeBarati Paints.

So that's my Instagram. I don't have a website yet. I tweet about random things. So Twitter. I need a website. Yeah, yeah. You got to get that web presence going here. That web presence got to get.

Yeah, that one. That is my, yeah, it's a pretty recent Instagram account because I wasn't, like, I said, I wasn't doing space art before this. If you scroll down a little bit, you'll start seeing all my cuisons and say you see the quasson, the cake and the teas. Yeah, so if you want to get away from science a little bit, feel free to look at some tea art. Or if you want to get into science, scroll up a little bit and you'll start seeing space art. I'm so proud of you because when I needed to get away from my work and I turned to. croissons and and goodies like that. I just ate them instead of painting them and that was a much

less useful decisions. Something philosophical about croissons. Even when I eat them, I have this urge to paint them. I see them and I have my friends, I have my partner and I just like look at them and the layers and be like, this is so poetic. There's so much poetry in a croissant. I just need to paint this. So yeah. Yeah, it's a beautifully layered. No. It's based art. Yeah, it's like Jupiter or something. Right? Anyway.

See? Another painting coming out of this. Yeah, that's the Jupiter croissons. Yes. Okay. We're going to end this stream before you to get too far out of the dreams here. So, yeah, so next week, everybody, we have a really special episode, so I'm just going to tease it a little bit. So Anthony will be back, and we are going to be interviewing the,

incomparable Lauren Lyons, who you may know, so she is an engineer who worked at SpaceX, Blue Origin, Firefly, she's been in all kinds of places. She's well known for hosting the SpaceX launch streams, and she did like all the big ones. So like the very first landing, the first Falcon heavy one, the DM2 flight with, you know, with people, the first one. So she's pretty great. She's had quite a career. We're going to talk a little bit about being an engineer.

and all the stuff she's done. So pop by next week and hope to see everybody there. So, yeah. That's it, everybody. So that's the show. Thank you, Amy, for popping by to share your work with us. It's awesome. I hope you keep selling out forever and ever and ever.

Thanks for having me. Super fun. Thanks for helping me host today. Thanks for picking up Anthony Slack while he goes on vacation. So I appreciate it. Absolutely. It was so much fun. Thanks for having me.

All right, bye, everybody. So nice to meet you, Amy. Bye-bye. Yeah, nice to meet you guys too.