Off The Telly - Everyone is talking about Adolescence

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page chat about all things on and off the telly. It's a big telly week - Nat and Jo discuss Adolescence, a new groundbreaking drama that everyone seems to be talking about. They talk everything from how it was all just one shot, to how incredible the performances are and how it's so thought provoking that it's made them think about how to educate and protect their own children. They also cover Michael Sheen's new documentary about debt where he gives £100,000 of his own money to wipe out a million pound's worth of debt for people in South Wales.What they can’t stop watching, what they definitely aren’t going to bother with, new releases and comforting classics – TV is timeless and no telly is out of bounds. As well as having a natter about what’s on TV, they share backstage goss from the world of telly, whilst also cracking up about the more humbling moments in their lives. Self-confessed TV addicts and stars of two of the biggest shows on our screens, EastEnders and Gavin and Stacey, Natalie and Joanna are the perfect companions to see what’s occurring on and off the telly.Timecodes for shows discussed today are:9:54 - Adolescence (Netflix) 23:34 - Michael Sheen’s Secret Million Pound Giveaway (Channel 4)Get in touch by sending us a message or voice note via WhatsApp to 03306 784704.Hosts: Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page Producer: Georgia Keating Executive Producer: Richard Morris Commissioning Editor: Rhian Roberts Production Co-ordinator: Becky Carewe-Jeffries Sounds Editor: Arlie Adlington Music by MCassoOff The Telly is a BBC Studios Audio Production for BBC Sounds.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the galaxy. How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Beetlejuice? I don't know. Why do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say? Drink up, the world's about to end. Start listening to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, primary phase, available to purchase wherever you get your audiobooks. BBC Sounds and make sure push notifications are turned on in your phone settings so you can always listen to the pod and if my mum can do it then you can. If Sue can do it then anyone can. How are you Jo? Welcome to Off the Telly everyone. Welcome to Off the Telly which I think is just going to be my place where I'm constantly now ill. I'm still ill, I'm not aching anymore but I've now got a cough and my head's all just,

I've still got this throbbing headache and so I'm still, you know, on the painkillers and but I am feeling better. My body's not aching and I think that was the worst thing. So that's not aching. So I am, I'm on the app. I'm on the app. You're looking quite bright. Yes. You're looking really pretty. I've come straight.

So you're looking better than last week. Thank you. I have come straight from the theatre where I have just sat and watched the wonderful performance of Robin Hood and his Merry Men. And it was quite wonderful. And how was it? It was really, really sweet. It was really sweet. I had to get bowed. It was 90 minutes long. 90 minutes. Wow. Yeah. And it was like, because nowhere is eight. So it was like, um, eights and nine

year olds in it, right? 90 minutes long. And we had Bo as well. And, uh, she lasted all the way through it. And she was absolutely brilliant until at the end, she was standing up in this chair and leaning on me and moving, you know, just like constantly didn't stop moving. And then when it went really quiet, she went, I need a poo. And so I said to James, you go and take it, you take it. And then he was trying to stall it and she said, Daddy, I need a poo. And I said, well, you just take her out and go for the poo. So she went out and then she came back in and then she proudly announced that it was the size of a pea. Oh, fair enough. Fair enough. I like that she isn't shy about her toilet habits. I

think it's very healthy actually for children. I think it's good. You can't get her out of the toilet. Like, I mean physically, she wants to get inside the toilet. So she'll sit there, right, and she'll do a poo and she's so proud and she's so amazing. She goes, I can do it. I can do it, mummy. And then she'll poo and then she likes to turn around and she examines all of it, has to talk about it, the size, the shape, everything. She's got her head right in there and I'm letting her do it

whilst also trying to pull her back a bit so she doesn't actually physically have her face in the toilet bowl, but she's loving it. She's just like her mum, isn't she. She's just like her mum isn't she? She's just like her mum because when we go to the loo I say Joe I can't keep looking at your poos. Nat come and have a look it's shaped like a pea. Oh dear. How have you been? I've been really good, thank you. It's been a lovely week. I've sort of all bits and pieces, quite going on the train, going into London,

a few meetings here and there. And it's just been, yeah, nice. And tomorrow I'm heading off to a spa with two of my mates and we're staying overnight. Oh, gosh, that's so nice. And I cannot wait. Oh have you got all the treatments booked in and stuff like that? A couple of treatments but more taking a book. I want to sit in a dressing gown and I want

to go in a sauna and the steam room and just sit with my friends and drink herbal teas. Oh my god that just sounds absolutely perfect. That's brilliant. I feel like I really need it. I feel like it's, I think it's important for us working mums to take a little bit of time out. So I'm really looking forward to it actually. Yeah, what we want is just time. That everything is just so full on all of the time that the best thing that somebody could ever do for us is go right, okay, you can go, you know, to a spa and just sit there with a book and just do nothing really, just read and just try out. That's what I wanna do, do nothing.

I'm gonna try and leave my phone in the room. Yes. And obviously check on it, but I said to Mark, honestly, I'm not gonna be on my phone a lot. Everyone's fine. You don't need me. Do you know? I think that's lovely. I just don't want to check the emails, check the messages, check all the WhatsApps, blah, blah, blah.

I'm going to constantly send you every 15 minutes messages about my poo. Just to disrupt the flow of everything for you. Well, it will definitely be locked in the room then. I shall send you pictures of when I get, if I have got the phone at any point, me in my robe and my feet dipping into the water. Oh, that'll be nice. Yeah, I shall do that. I shall do that.

Lovely. But apart from that, it's been a bit of a wild week of television. Oh my gosh, it really has, mind us, Ned. So the two shows that we're going to be talking about this week are ones that basically everyone is talking about. We've got Adolescence on Netflix and we're also chatting about Michael Sheen's secret million pound giveaway on Channel 4. Yeah.

Before we go into this week's shows, should we have a listen to what some of the guys at home have been saying? Yeah let's. Hi Jeremy, that Lindsay from Speckardt here. Just finished watching the iPlayer release of Extenders. Natalie, I know you've left, you probably don't want to talk about it, but I know is a good friend of yours, Steve McFadden. So I've just finished watching the episode about his time being looked after in the mental health facility. My goodness, it broke my heart. Such a good actor. And you know what? Thank goodness that Phil's going to be okay. My goodness, what would we do without that man?

He's incredible. I've said it before and I'll say it again. People, he's amazing. He's absolutely brilliant. I thought of him this week because obviously we're gonna talk about adolescence and Stephen Graham is just amazing. But you know, I do put Steve McFadden up there as one of our top British actors.

And I think sometimes soaps can be deemed as just just soap you know and that I just think actors can be overlooked in soap opera so I can't wait to sit and watch that I might do it tomorrow in my robe actually. True you could couldn't you? Yeah yeah yeah should we listen to another? Yes. Hey, love you girls. Listen all the time. First time sending a message though, because I just heard Natalie talking about Jamiro Cry. I went to see, I didn't say it very well then either.

I went to see them at Wembley too. I think it was about 1997. Anyways, couple of weeks later, my mum says to me, oh, that person you went to see was on the telly tonight. I was like, who's that? She says, Jack. I was like, Jack, I've not been to see anyone called Jack. Yeah, you did, she says. Yeah, Jack McGuire. I was like, what?

I don't know anyone called Jack McGuire and I've not been to see them. Turns out she was talking about Jamiroquai. So you got it loads better than she did. Jack Maguire. I think that is actually better than Jamiroquai or whatever I was saying last week. Jamiroquai. Jack Maguire.

Oh, J.K. Brilliant. I love a word, faux pas, I have to say. My mum had a neighbour once, right? And she used to say things wrong. And she used to say, Oh, I tell you what, that toy boy in the bedroom needs dusting. We all used to look at each other, but she meant tall boy. She'd say, Oh, that toy boy out there needs a good clean out. She'd say, okay. I think people get to a certain age and then they start saying just like the wrong words, don't they? Because my mother is always ending up saying the wrong word for something. And it's just like, yeah.

And my dad as well. They just come out with things and I'm like, I don't know where you've even got them from. I quite like it though. And I don't like to tell people they're wrong. I quite like to hear it. Should we have another message? Yeah. Hi girls. Just got to give you a quick voice note because I've been having such a horrible morning and then I realized that it's Wednesday and off the telly day

so oh my god it just made my fucking day I'm currently in work right now I'm trying not to swear and try to whisper but uh yeah love you girls thank you so much for brightening up my morning happy Wednesday oh that's so nice isn isn't it? You sound lovely! I've heard that from a lot of people, you know. Certain pods that they like, our pods, you know, you get someone come up to you and say, oh, I just look forward to Wednesdays now. It sort of changed my Wednesday. And you think, really, just us talking a load of crap has done that, which is so nice.

I find it really funny because I walk into the kitchen and James is there because he's got up before me and he's got his headphones in and he's like, I'm listening to you now. And then he'll tell me about, he was like, oh, I was listening to you earlier on. Oh my God, I thought it was brilliant. And he's chatting away and it's just really funny just listening to him listening to me and you. That's really, really nice. My nanny Laura always does that so shout out to her. But she's a massive fan, she likes to listen to it so it's really nice. It is lovely, really good.

Yeah it is. I mean this Adolescence Joe is being everywhere. Oh my god it's got to be a good bigotelli isn't it? Adolescence is a drama, four part drama on Netflix which focuses on a 13 year old boy who has been caught doing a crime and it's about the journey of an innocent little child getting roped into really, really scary stuff which is all about technology and the internet. All I've seen now is just a barrage of posts, messages, items on television about it. I mean, we've had the most messages. It's really opened up a conversation. Yeah, over everything.

Anything we've ever, ever talked about or watched or whatever, this is the thing that we've had the most messages about. It doesn't surprise me. So many people have just said how incredible it is, and our friends in I was saying, you know, so many people have just said how incredible it is. And our friends in school were saying, Oh my God, have you seen it yet? You know, it's just so important and it's just frightening and it's shocking and it's so important and it's just, you've got to watch it. It's incredible. And so then when I sat down and started to watch it, I mean, well, I was, it's aside from it being an absolutely amazing piece of work and an event.

Well, I was going to say, what do we talk about first? Well, it's like, yeah, you've got the event side of it and how incredible it is. It's all filmed in one shot. The acting is incredible. The whole technical aspect inside of it, it just blows you away. You sort of end up kind of forgetting about that because you are completely and utterly just drawn, I mean, and that shows how wonderful that side of it is, that it's just effortless what it seems to be happening. And then you're just so drawn

into the most, I mean, boom, slap bang, you're straight in it. And I just started watching it. And my eldest, well, my boy is nine and he's so utterly adorable and I watch this little boy on it and I just wanted to put my arms around him and I just thought this is unbearable, this is unbearable but I can see how this is happening, this is now happening. It's absolutely, it's just so upsetting, it's just heartbreaking isn't it? So I've done two episodes. Yeah. And I was, well, just the time for me to sit down and watch it because Mark and I are doing it together. And we watched two on the bounce and I wanted to continue and it was midnight and I said, no, no, no, I can't, got to go to bed. But I've read everything around it and for me, I wanted to talk to you first, obviously, because East

Enders was live. So we had to do that half an hour with the pressure of not mucking it up because everybody was watching it. So in case, I think it's really important to, you know, some people might not understand that when we say it's all done in one shot, that means that hour of television that you're watching, if on the last scene, if on the last scene of that hour that you've watched of that episode, someone gets a line wrong, they would have to start the whole episode again, because it isn't a cutting point. So that is like filming a live episode. Yeah, I mean there was one moment where I sort of got about halfway through and then I thought no, surely not. I suddenly came out of it and I thought no, surely not. We

can't have gone this long. And then it just continues. I found it amazing to hear Stephen Graham talking about the fact that he didn't want an actor from a drama school to play the role of Jamie. And the young boy who's playing Jamie, Owen Cooper. So he's just a normal kid. And Stephen Graham was really adamant that he just wanted a raw child to play this part. And I mean, how amazing was he? He's amazing and I what I've heard so far because people have said to me have you seen all of it yet and I said I know I'm carrying on soon. Apparently episode three is all about him Jamie the little boy and his child psychologist and that's the whole

episode it's just meant to be breathtaking I can't wait to see it. And apparently the little boy got tapped into something whilst filming it. And he really, he didn't know how he felt because he'd found something. He got so angry and so emotional that him and his own life hadn't felt like that before. Oh my God. so emotional that him in his own life hadn't felt like that before. Which I found quite amazing to hear. But I think as a piece of work, as you say, not just for the acting because Ashley Walters, I think Ashley Walters is... Ashley Walters as one of the police officers is just incredible.

He's absolutely fantastic. I mean I'm just sitting there and watching him and he's kind to them. I mean he's just amazing. He's just kind but he's getting on with his job and you're watching every single minute of him because he's finished chatting to somebody then he's turning to somebody else, he's eating his apple, he's walking down there, he's going back in, he's talking to the parents, he's talking to the boy. Ashley Walters is incredible. And then what about Stephen Graham when the shot goes in tight on his face when his son is having to be searched and examined.

Being strip-shut, searched. Oh my God. And then at the end of the first episode, how he then just eventually crumbles, Stephen Graham, it's just incredible. I mean it really is. I suppose then watching it Joe, as parents, how did it make you feel? Because for me, I always talk about phones and technology and how it's just, I put something on Insta this week about this saying you've just got to watch this and we've just got to be vigilant. But you know, I kept thinking, well, I dropped the ball sometimes, you know, you get busy and you think, have I checked Eliza's phone lately? Have I done enough? Am I doing enough?

But then you can sort of, I always say, oh, don't be over the top. But I think this proves you can never be over the top. Because the thing is now, whether we like it or not, maybe we don't want to hear it because it is another job, but as parents, it is our job to protect our children. And if they do have a phone or an iPad, their bedroom isn't safe anymore. No, not at all. That's the message now. I mean, well, we'd go out, we'd go, what was

we doing? I'd go out, I'd have a bottle of 20-20 down the park. I'm not saying it's right, it's not right at all. But once you were in your house and your door was shut, it was just safe haven. And that isn't the case anymore. You've got social media, I watched it and I just thought of my boys. I mean, you know, just because it's a little boy, you know, who's doing it. And then also the whole thing about misogyny and the way that women are seen on there. And then, you know, that young boys, you know, might not have somebody to look up to or to advise them.

Whereas you'd have like sports stars or, you know, a teacher or somebody like that. You don't, you know, necessarily have that or some kids don't have that. And so they're looking for something else and then they can get drawn into the whole thing of influencers and influencers towards boys who aren't necessarily talking about women or treating women in the right way and the whole thing about porn and the way that that is, and it's not real and, you know, real, I mean, you know, I can't imagine that porn could ever be like real and real relationships or whatever, but the way that women, you know, are seen in it and how, you know, violent and aggressive

and the kids now, because they've got phones from such a young, young age. Oh, looking at that and they do think it's the norm. Access all of that and I watched it and I just thought none of my kids have got phones and I just watched it and I just thought I'm not giving my kids phones. I don't care. I will go as long as I can. Just try and go as long as you can. I wish I'd gone a bit longer with Eliza. She was year eight. So she was 12, nearly 13, I think. Or was she 13 because she's in September? Anyway, you know, it was a struggle though.

What are they doing now? I mean, every day you look around and kids are just on their phones and I just thought, oh my God, this is just terrifying. Move to the countryside. Just get a load of animals and band phones. I agree with you Jo, but in this day and age that isn't going to happen. So we need to grow with the technology because tech is only getting more and more and it's brilliant in some ways as well. Do you know what I mean? I love Instagram. I love using it. It's helped me with my business to grow me. Do you know what I mean? I think there are positive sides to it. Yeah, but you're an adult, aren't you?

I am an adult, but I know, but you say that Jo, I know people of our age who really struggle mentally with Instagram. Oh God, I can imagine. Yeah. You know, really, really feel FOMO or they're worthless because they're looking at things like all of those things exist in adults as well as children. But there are, there are movements who are trying to stick together and on Facebook, local communities, different schools are all linking up to say, look, let's

as parents, let's try and stick together. Because it's all about peer pressure. It's all about peer pressure. It's terrifying as well because I mean, in this, you know, Jamie Miller, the character, he is from a lovely family and you know, these and you just think, oh my god, just like, just going wrong, just one little turning wrong. And everything can just like, just going wrong, just one little turning wrong, and everything can just like, just completely and utterly change.

And it's terrifying because you can't be there for them 100% of the time and control absolutely everything. All you can do is advise them and put them in safe places and just talk to them. I watched it and I just thought, I just have to be as open as possible with the kids. I just need to constantly talk to them. I need to, I just have to be as open as possible with the kids. I just need to constantly talk to them. I need to, I just need to be open and we all need to just be able to talk to each

other and just be open about everything. About relationships, about what you see on the internet, about just gotta be open about everything. Yeah, opening the conversation. All the time I say to Eliza, how's school? And not just how's school, but you know, I say, is everything all right? Is there anything going on? And she just rolls her eyes and says, oh, you're so overprotective, I'm absolutely fine. Yeah, but that's good.

But I say, well, that's, you know, I'm not gonna stop. That's what I'm gonna do. But yeah, again, it's just a thought-provoking masterpiece, really. It's just incredible. Did you ever watch Boiling Point, Jo? No, I didn't, and, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, sort of beginning of this type of drama, I feel like they've created a genre now which is just outstanding. I read somewhere and they said that every day they would do two takes and I read that before I watched it and so I thought, oh you know, I wonder if it's, you know, I'm not quite sure of how they're doing it or whatever and then I started watching it and I thought, oh my god, it's like running a play twice isn't it? Exactly, exactly that.

And then I read another interview where Ashley Walters said that he ended up messing up one of the takes, and I think it was right at the end or something, and I don't know how he did it or whatever, but I mean, oh my God, once, but watching it, it was flawless, it was flawless. I couldn't believe it.

And I really feel. And you must think about where all the camera's going and just, and I mean, and I- When I was watching it with Mark Mark Joe, you would have laughed. Oh my God, we put it on. We've put it on and it was the shot right at the beginning. They get out the police car and they go in and whatever. And he went, let me just I've just got to rewind that.

I said, no, no, no. I said, we're not doing this all the way through. And he said, no, I just need to just rewind because I just want to see. Yeah. And then he started looking on for afterwards in the next morning. He said, I found it. It's this, it's that. It's done here and it's on this. So he was sort of guessing how it was done. And I think he got it right. But yeah, I mean, what a craft, you know, it's amazing. And the rawness and I think the nerves of it, you know, you can only do it once like a play.

Yeah. But there's just something really magical about that and that energy that I don't think you'd get if it was all cut together. I think when you do things as live, it's a different energy. It's drama that you watch and go, this is, this has got to change something. This is, you know, something that is going to change something, is going to make us think. This is like momentous drama that actually does mean something. Yeah, I completely agree with you. And like you said, we've had the most messages ever, haven't we, about this show? Yes. So it's really, really got to people, you know, it's got people thinking.

And in this day and age where people say telly is sort of not, you know, it's not great anymore, or everybody's going over to YouTube and watching sort of snippets of things, or, you know, socials and whatever, people are still watching great dramas. They are, aren't they? They really, really are. And television can still make a difference, which is amazing, really. Yeah. Do you think you'd sit down and watch it with Eliza? Definitely. Yeah. No, a hundred percent.

It is something to be sat down with your children, a hundred percent. I think from the age of 13, honestly, cause that's how old the boy is in it. So I think why not show them? I think it should be shown in schools. I think there should be work done on it in the future. And thank you for all your voice notes about it.

Yes, and for saying to us restaurant at the end of the universe. Enjoy this dynamic remastering of the original BBC Radio 4 full cast serial, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Beetlejuice? I don't know. Why do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say? Drink up, the world's about to end. Start listening to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, primary phase.

Available to purchase wherever you get your audiobooks. So the next thing that we were watching was Michael Sheen's secret million pound giveaway on Channel 4. Yes! Have you worked with him before, Jo? I know that's stupid just because he's Welsh. No, I've met Michael Sheen. I've never worked with him but I've met him. The first time I ever met Michael Sheen, he wouldn't remember when I met him because I was in Covent Garden. I think I was still in drama school and I walked into this bookshop. There was a bookshop there and I walked into this bookshop and walked around the corner, bumped into this man and I went, oh my God, oh God, how are you? I haven't seen you for ages, how

are you? And he went, oh I'm very well, thank you. I think you've told me this story. I think I have and then I looked at him and suddenly it dawned on me that I recognised him not because he was my friend but because it was Michael Sheen and I absolutely idolised him and then I just had to go, Oh, oh God, I'm sorry. Oh, goodbye and just walk away. But since then I have met him and I and he's such a lovely man. But my God, he's just an absolutely incredible man as well. He's just like, he's just a force. You see him with his wild curly hair and his amazing, wonderful accent and

you just he's like a powerhouse. I think he's wonderful. Yeah. Well, I don't know much about Michael Sheen and I started watching this. And again, it was really thought provoking. I think- Yeah. I thought, personally, I thought I would have liked to have seen a little bit more of the people he helped. I think it was a really brave documentary to make for him to put his money into it. And obviously it spanned over a really long time for him because I think throughout the

programme he then mentioned that, you know, throughout the programme they found out the steelworks were closing down and people were sat in the cafe sobbing and he got really upset. And I think he had lost in his life as well. So I don't know if it spans over maybe two, three years. I think it's spanned over quite a long amount of time. It was funny when he walked into the post office. So he walks into the post office and he says, can I have a hundred thousand pounds? And the lovely girl behind there was like, oh yeah, that'd be nice, wouldn't it?

And he was like, no, may I withdraw a hundred thousand pounds? And the whole premise of the show and the documentary is Michael Sheen gets out a hundred grand and he wants to buy a million pounds worth of debt and then completely write it off so he's helping the people of South Wales right? Yeah. I mean what are things to do with your own money? Just incredible I mean really brave and just I mean putting yourself out there and going well you know I'm not just doing a documentary about it I genuinely do care about it so I'm gonna put my own money behind it and actually genuinely do something about it, so I'm going to put my own money behind it and actually genuinely do something about it.

Really incredible. My God, good on you. I'm wanting to help people. And he went around and he saw some really wonderful people. And I think the biggest thing, I know you read about it, but the biggest take home for me from it was these people are hardworking people. You know, you get this kind of idea that people in debt or on credit are lazy or, do you know what, that's what people say, not me.

But you get this sort of thing of, oh, they're all on credit cards and they're not going to work and they're frivolous with their money or they're big spenders. And that is not the case in this day and age. People are working hard, they've got children, they can't afford to live and I think that was what came across for me. Yeah, he was talking to normal people who've got jobs, who've got kids, but you know, prices

for everything are going up but people's wages aren't going up and you know, at the beginning of the year you've got to buy school uniform, you've got to, you know, prices for everything are going up, but people's wages aren't going up. And you know, at the beginning of the year, you've got to buy school uniform, you've got to, you know, get the weekly shop, your washing machine, you know, might pack up. I mean, suddenly, you know, there are circumstances that in life that you might have, you were talking to one woman and she, you know, had about three months worth of savings. But then something might go boom and go wrong in your life or something might pack up or you might need to go and whatever. And then you're like, Oh God, I need the money to do such and such I'm going to have to borrow it and then oh my god there was this one thing where this young boy... Even if your car breaks down

do you know what I mean even you know your car breaks down and it's 400 quid for something yeah that's such a lot of money yeah that just suddenly just like that you are in debt he's talking about this this young boy and he borrowed £500. That's it. And then by the time it got to the end of the debt collectors adding this and all of the interest added on and then it being passed back and forth to all the different people, he ended up paying back £5,500. £5,500. Yeah, unbelievable. Just unbelievable. It's incredible and the show is about banks. You know, Michael Sheen wanting to talk to banks to get banks to really start borrowing small amounts of money for good interest rates

so people aren't having to use loan sharks and get into this sort of dangerous debt almost. We saw somebody, I couldn't believe it that he was interviewing and saw a loan shark who was obviously anonymous and he was saying, I'm helping these people. I'm really helping because they can't go anywhere else for it. And I'll say to them, yeah, you'll have to give me your car at the end of it. Or, you know, I won't bash someone up for 500 quid and you're thinking, I get why they're thinking they're helping because there's nowhere else for the person to go. So, you know, it really bamboos of my brain actually. I found it really fascinating.

How somebody can borrow money so they can have that debt then but then if they can't pay it back that will then be sold on at like a much cheaper price to like you know another debt sort of agency and then if they can't recover the money then they'll sell that on you know to another you know agency to try and get the debt for like a really small price but the person's you know's debt originally that's just going up and up and up and it's still the same amount that they borrowed or the interest is being added on top, but that debt then will be sold to other different companies for a really small price and so that's why he could then...

Why not make that sort of illegal in a way? There needs to be legalities in place that surely if someone can't pay... Well I think people are making too much money off it. Of course, but there should be a system. I remember my dad years ago, I know it's different, but I remember him sort of having a little savings book that he'd tell me about or whatever in the 60s and he'd go in the shop and if he wanted a new washing machine for the new house or whatever, there'd be a little book and he'd go in each week and put two quid down and you know, pay it off that way. I know you can't, I just think everything's got so...

My mum used to do that though at Christmas time she said for me, that you know, when it was like a Christmas time, they'd go into the certain shop and then the people would have a book there behind the thing and then she'd say, you know, what she'd want for me for Christmas and stuff and then she'd go in each week and then she'd pay off, you know, her thing each week then and they'd write it in the book, you know, in the thing and then she'd say you know what she'd want for me for Christmas and stuff and then she'd go in each week and then she'd pay off you know her thing each week then and they'd write it in the book you know in the shop and stuff and stuff like that just doesn't happen these days does it? I mean people can make too much money off other people's you know hardship and and they're quite prepared to carry on doing that. It's sad. I found it really

interesting that Gordon Brown decided to come and talk to him because no one would talk to Michael for this documentary. We wouldn't talk to him would they? It must have been really frustrating because as documentary makers even and the show, you know, I felt that they didn't get anywhere. So I felt I thought they did so well to make it and to make the program still really interesting and kind of eye opening because they couldn't get in to talk to anyone from the banks, any of the government. You think, oh why? Why don't you want to do that?

You know, just sit down and have an open conversation. None of the big four. Because I mean, he's done that and you know, it's just huge what he did. I mean, brilliant for him and he should have felt really elated by it, but I think he didn't. It was quite melancholy because he said, this doesn't scratch the surface. It doesn't, does it? You just think, oh my god, it's so far to go. Yeah. But maybe again, it's a show that people will take note of and he started a conversation

with Gordon Brown who's supporting him and you never know. You just never know, do you, you just never know do you? You don't do you? Yeah. Well we've had a very good week's worth of telly haven't we? It's been very thought provoking and very interesting stuff that we've watched this week. Yeah, completely. Really, really good. I feel a bit of a grown up this week with what we've watched. Yes, but I think everybody has been so in awe of adolescence and so sort of shocked as well. And I mean, my God, it's only every now and then, isn't it, that something like

that comes along that just sort of shakes you out of it and just makes you just go, wow, oh my gosh. And then with Michael Sheen's thing as well, I mean, it's just, this stuff has just been really incredible, really interesting. It has. This stuff has just been really incredible, really interesting. Before we go, though, we've got time to hear a recommendation from one of our listeners. Hi, Nat and Jo, my name's Kelly. I'm calling from Caerphilly in South Wales. I absolutely adore your podcast. It keeps me company during the working day or when I nip out for a quick walk at lunchtime.

I think you guys are amazing. Absolutely adore Gavin and Stacey and EastEnders. I just wanted to give you a recommendation. It's not one I'm sure I've heard yet. It is the Apple TV series, Ted Lasso, written by and starring Jason Sudeikis and Hannah Waddingham. It's all about a football team in Richmond that appoints an American football coach to come and coach them. He has no clue about football or soccer, as he calls it. It is one of the most beautiful TV series I've seen. It is so funny. It is heartwarming. You laugh, you cry, you completely fall in love with all of these characters. It's such a really wonderful series. It's only three series long and but it's really worth a

watch and I'd recommend it to anybody. Thank you. Have you ever seen Ted Lasso? I have never seen it but everybody says they absolutely love it. Well I think let's have a little dive into that soon. Yeah. Because I've heard really good things about it. I've just never watched it.

I think I've been put off it because I always think Ted lasso as if he's standing there and it's a Western thing and he's got a lasso in his hands. And I know it's about football. Well now we know. Yeah, so I think that's why I've not watched it. We should watch it. And I thought, well, definitely a stupid thing of me. I thought it was an American series. I know, I thought, well, definitely a stupid thing of me. I thought it was an American series.

I know, I thought that as well. I think because he's American, I just assumed it was a whole all American thing and Hannah Waddingham was just in an American thing, you know. So did I. So did I. So, oh no, let's have a look at it. It'd be really good. Yes. Really, really good. These recommendations, they're not just great for us, but listeners at home as well. Even if we don't get round to it, it's lovely for people listening to the pod to get tips and ideas off of you. So please keep sending in your recommendations. It really means a lot.

Yes. Oh, and we are going to be dropping our next bonus episode, which is going to be all about your favourite dramas on Friday. So look out for that and I mean I think adolescence my god it's got to be up there for one of our favourite dramas by far, definitely isn't it? Yeah I think it will be for a lot of people but we can we can have a little think and pick our brains and see if we can come up with a few others and listen to everybody's lovely voice notes which is one of our favourite things to do, isn't it? Yes. Do keep sending the voice notes with your recommendations, thoughts on the

telly or anything else we've discussed on the pod. You know the drill. The number is 033 06 784 704. Oh, that was really nice. That was, wasn't it? Yes. Yeah. I think next week though, it'd be quite nice to do a bit of a comedy because yeah, That was really nice. That was. Really good. Wasn't it? Yes.

Yeah. I think next week though, it'd be quite nice to do a bit of a comedy because yeah, my brain is in overload. Yeah, we've had quite a heavy week this week. Yeah. It's been a heavy one, but do you know what? You need to talk about these subjects. And it is very important.

You can't bury your head in the sand. We can't all be like Bo and bury our head down the toilet. We have to get up there. We can't. We got to. And we need to have a chat sometimes about growing up things. Yeah, we do. And we certainly have this week and they have been well worth watching.

So we recommend them massively to everybody. Absolutely. All right, my love, well, I hope next week you feel better. Well, I'm going, this is like, is it my third week on the pod of being Elle? Yeah, I want you to be on top of the world next week. I'm gonna be on top of the world for the pod next week. I wanna see you, I wanna give you a cuddle.

Yeah. We're doing this virtually again because you're not very well and we've both been busy and... Yeah? It's your birthday soon, isn't it? It's my birthday soon! Aww! Yes! So happy, happy birthday. Thank you! I'm very excited. Have a brilliant birthday.

Yeah. Yeah, what are you up to? I'm having a massive lion and then James is sending me off to a spa, so I'm going to have a swim, I'm going to have a massage and then I'm just going to probably sit there just relaxing on my own, which I'm looking forward to. That's really lovely. There you go. Look at us leading the old parallel lives. Yes, it's a present, which is basically, everybody leave me the hell alone. Oh my God.

I've already started to panic though, because this year it's James's 50th, so I've got to come up with something. I've got Mark's 40th. Oh my god, really? Yeah, let's discuss on next week's pod. We'll discuss birthday presents. Yes, we will. Because I can't even think. James will want something like technical, like some something to, you know, cut a hedge or, you know, drill a thing. What if it's 50th?

Oh God, he'd love it. He'd absolutely love it. You need to take him away. You need to take him away. Well, no, that's what I, well, do you know, right? First of all... He listens to the bloody pod though, doesn't he? Right, James, if you're listening, right, just stop listening for this last bit. Stop listening James now. Okay just stop listening for the next two minutes.

Me and the kids. As if he's gonna do that. Right James don't listen because you're gonna mess it all up if you do right and me and the kids have decided that with all of us as a gang together we're gonna take him to I want to say it's not a safe room no it's an escape room because I've never in my entire life ever done one and we thought that would be really good fun to do with the kids. So I think the kids and me and James are going to go to an escape room, lock ourselves in there and try and escape and then for just me and him we probably will say to mum and dad, will you look after the kids and then me and him might go away and I might stretch it from one night into like a couple of nights maybe and we can go somewhere.

I think that is a must. You must do that. But we can only do that if we manage to escape from the escape room. They let you out after a while Jo. They're not going to leave you in there. Oh well let's hope not. Let's hope not. You'll have a great time. Brilliant. Well well, let's hope not, let's hope not. You'll have a great time. Brilliant. Well, listen, more on this next week. More on this.

Yes, more on this. When I see you next week, I'm going to be a year older. Fantastic. Can't wait to see you. A year older and getting younger by the minute is what I say. Younger by the minute and wiser by the minute. Thanks everybody for listening and we will speak to you next week. See you next week guys. Bye.

Off the Telly is hosted by Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page. The producer is Georgia Keating, the commissioning editor is Rhianne Roberts and it's a BBC Studios audio production for BBC Sounds. Hi, I'm Rylan and I'm here to talk about men. Because in recent years we have all seen the man in Britain undergo radical change as the rule book has been well and truly ripped apart. So I'm going to talk to a range of prominent figures and celebs who have each got their own diverse and contrasting takes on what it means to be a man today.

I want to prize open the fault lines of modern masculinity and get to grips with the changing landscape and try to get some answers so that we can pass them on to the next generation. This is Ryland, how to be a man from BBC Radio 4. Listen on BBC Sounds. Witness the destruction of Earth, stumble upon the ancient planet of Magrathia and dine at the restaurant at the end of the universe. Enjoy this dynamic remastering of the original BBC Radio 4 full-cast serial, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

How would you react if I said that I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Beetlejuice? I don't know. Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say? Drink up. The world's about to end. Start listening to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Primary phase. Available to purchase wherever you get your audiobooks.