Off The Telly - "I Didn't See Grimmy Once!"

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page chat about all things on and off the telly.Nat and Jo are tucking into some incredible returning series this week with both The Last Of Us and Black Mirror on their watch list. They also treat themselves to Bad Dog Academy, and Nat is convinced she ‘didn’t see Grimmy once’ despite him hosting the show.What they can’t stop watching, what they definitely aren’t going to bother with, new releases and comforting classics – TV is timeless and no telly is out of bounds.As well as having a natter about what’s on TV, they share backstage goss from the world of telly, whilst also cracking up about the more humbling moments in their lives.Self-confessed TV addicts and stars of two of the biggest shows on our screens, EastEnders and Gavin and Stacey, Natalie and Joanna are the perfect companions to see what’s occurring on and off the telly.Timecodes for shows discussed today are:11:25 - The Last Of Us (NOW) 17:30 - Bad Dog Academy (Channel 4) 26:45 - Black Mirror (Netflix)Get in touch by sending us a message or voice note via WhatsApp to 03306 784704.Hosts: Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page Producer: Becky Carewe-Jeffries Executive Producer: Richard Morris Commissioning Editor: Rhian Roberts Production Co-ordinator: Becky Carewe-Jeffries Sounds Editor: Arlie Adlington Music by MCassoOff The Telly is a BBC Studios Audio Production for BBC Sounds.

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. Hello everybody. Welcome to Off the Telly with Nat and Jo. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Before we start, I want to say that you can subscribe to our pod on BBC Sam's. Make sure your push notifications are turned on so you can listen to every episode of Off The Telly which will be an utter joy. Fantastic. Joe?

Yep. How was your week? It was good. I moved the cycling bike. What's it called? The one that you sit on? Oh yeah, yeah. What is it? It's a cycling, what's it called? A cycling bike. What's an inside one called? Bicycle. I got on the... An exercise bike.

An exercise bike. An exercise bike. It's not very good when you actually come to... and you don't even know the name of the equipment which you quite clearly aren't using. I got one, it was in the kitchen, no word of a lie, I used it twice. I used it once to set up and then I did one session and oh god, I'm not even joking that was it. And then it was moved upstairs onto the landing where it's been now, god for like, oh god is it about six months or something ridiculous?

My exercise bike is in a certain area, no one goes on it, I haven't started hanging clothes on it fortunately but it needs to go. Really? Yeah. God you've made the decision you're not going to like it, just no way. My exercise for me, I've tried a lot of different things. And the best thing for me is getting outside and be it a power walk or a jog, because I'm a snail, but getting outside is better for me. Even in the cold, even in the rain, wrapping up and getting outside. And I need to do that now. I've been doing a lot of, I think the job actually, there's a lot of sitting involved. There is, mind you, isn't there?

Sitting, watching a lot of telly. Oh my God, yes. Now I know people say, oh, you can get one of these things. Have you seen them? No, what things? It's like a walking pad. A walking pad is not going to do anything, is it? No, listen to me.

If I got the walking pad, where is it going to go? It's going to go under the sofa and it will never see the light of day. No, you'll never use a walking pad. I'm not going to watch the television doing that. I'm just not going to do it. I could have moved the exercise bike into the lounge. I don't want it in the lounge. It's not a furniture shop. I'm actually getting quite excited though because I'm now going to watch all of the stuff that I normally watch, but I'm going to do it on the exercise bike. I might make

a thing and go, right, I can't watch anything for this pod unless I'm sat on the exercise bike. That's a great idea. Oh, do you know what I've got to say? What? I don't know if you've seen, but I wanted to tell you I've got a really exciting new project that's happening. Oh, what, what? I am, for the BBC, I'm going back to school.

Oh my God, what are you studying? I'm going back to college and I am studying social care. Wow! From the early years right up to palliative care. Oh my god. And I'm going to be on placements, looking at different things. Listen, we've not started the filming yet. Yeah. So the structure is sort of still being done. Yeah. But fingers crossed this time next year it'll be on the telly. Wow. What's made you be interested in that sort of subject in area? It was quite a passion

project because I cared for my dad and I cared for him right up until the end of his life and I've always wanted to do more about elderly care but this course incorporates a lot of elderly care but also some other care as well throughout the life. Wow, are you going to be sitting exams and stuff? Yeah. Oh my God, when are you going to find time to like revise and all of that? I don't know yet. Oh my God, will you be revising with the girls? They'll be doing it for their exams and you'll be doing it as well. Yeah. But I'm really excited. Like I say, it's a very loose idea at the moment, but

it is definitely happening. Oh, that's really nice. Will you be working with like little babies and stuff like that? I don't know if it's... On the placements, I think we're looking at maybe sort of a Parkinson's centre, which specialises in Parkinson's care, a dementia choir that we might be going to see. You know, there's lots of bits and pieces, but as I say, it's all very loose at the moment. But I'm really, really excited to be doing something about social care because I think it's such a massive, massive thing now. It's a massive topic. Us, as we get older, who's going to care for us? Housing, just who's going into care as

well? Because it'll be lovely because when I go into the college, I will be with all the people that are doing the course. I don't know their ages, but they're probably going to be a lot younger than me. So I'm going to be meeting people and asking them why they're getting into care. So yeah, I'm hoping it'll be a really nice sort of multi-layered show to do. Oh, that's lovely. That's really interesting and really rewarding as well. I hope so. Yeah. Learn a lot. God, you learn loads. Mark's going to be all right.

He'll be all right, won't he? In his latter years. He will. Brilliant. That is my news for the week. Exciting. Yeah. Now, before we get into this week's shows, shall we have a listen to what some of you guys at home have been saying? I think we should. Right, Jo, I'm with you there. Married at first sight, Australia is the best. I said last time, I'm not going to get sucked in because it's such a commitment. They are so long. It lasts forever. But come the first episode, I was hooked and I'm not going to give anything. I'm literally up to date, but we've got a separate maths chat on the family. All my friends are watching it, but obviously at different times, so we can't give away any spoilers. But those who, like all my family are all up to date, are every

single day, we're like, oh my God, can't wait for the next one, can't wait for the next one. It's like we are wishing our days away. Just to watch maths is unbelievable. Oh God, it's the Australian one. Why is the Australian one better? My Australian MasterChef is much better. Is it? Yeah. Why? Just anything Australian is better.

Do you think they're just more open than us? More blunt or? No, just the style of it, the people. It's just all cracking. God, I've got to carry on watching Maska. I'm loving it. I'm loving it. It's brilliant.

I'm loving it. Should we have another voice here? Yes. Hi Nat and Jo, it's Katie from Dorset. And I was listening to an episode of the pod the other day when you were talking about how nice it is to be able to sit down and watch something with your eldest girls and how they're just getting to that age where you can talk about issues

and sort of watch it with them and get that time back with them. And my eldest is 12, she's nearly 13. And we sat down the other night to watch School Swap UK to USA. It's on Channel 4, there's three episodes. And it is about a group of children from an inner-city London comp that go over to a really rural school in America. And they do an exchange, they do a swap for a couple of weeks. And it's really, really interesting.

And it was a great one to watch with a sort of pre-teenage child. And I would highly, highly recommend it if you to watch it with your girls. They talked about all sorts of things from diversity to the gun laws, to that sense of community, and they had such contrasting lives. It was really, really insightful. And we had some fantastic conversations. We kept sort of pausing the show as we were going through and talking about what her experience of being in year eight at the school she's at is like, because her school here in the

UK is in real contrast to the UK school that was shown on the show. And it's really, really different to the one in America too. So she loved it. She actually sort of said to me, oh, can we watch it again tomorrow night? Can we watch it again? And yeah, it was a bit of a shame. There were only three episodes, but we really enjoyed it. Highly, highly recommend. Well, that sounds brilliant.

That does sound good, doesn't it? I think I might watch that with Eva then. Well, yeah, I mean, I think I'll pop it on with Eliza. Obviously Eliza's 14. The lady said pre-teen, but I'm sure she'd still be interested. And I do think it's really important for our children to realize that not everywhere is the same. And I think if you are, I would call my kids privileged children in terms of where we live, where they're educated. I just think we're very, very lucky. And I think sometimes I think that everybody lives in a house like us and everybody

goes to a school like theirs. I mean, they go to different schools, but I do think it's really lovely to open their eyes to what else is around there and how grateful they should be. I'm very lucky though with my kids. I do feel I've instilled that into them. They do understand that, you know, mummy and daddy work hard and we're very lucky. I'm not saying, don't get me wrong, we don't live in a mansion, but you know, we work hard, but we are very fortunate, I would say. So that sounds like a really great show. I'd be interested to watch it on my own. Yeah, me too. That does sound really interesting really great show. I'd be interested to watch it on my own. Yeah, me too. That does sound really interesting. And it is nice when they get to an age where, because I mean, with mine, I've kept them really quite sheltered and they've just been

allowed to watch, you know, certain sort of, and it's all children's stuff and everything. But it is nice now that Eva's got to the age of 12, where we can start watching more grown up things together where she's starting to see a bit of, you know, the outside world or, you know, other things where people don't live the same as us or different countries have things, they do things differently. And it's really good to sit down and watch that together, isn't it? And to share, you know, those times with, you know, your daughter. Well, also, I think if you're not well-travelled, I'm not a well-travelled person. Yeah.

It doesn't really interest me. I've just never travelled a lot. Well, I suppose as well, because you were working from a really, really young age. I was, yeah. And then I went straight from GCSEs, A-levels, BUMs, straight into drama school. You come out of drama school, if you're working, you don't stop working. So I never, ever went to university, then did a gap year or did that year of traveling or didn't do that. No, it was just like straight into work and then you work.

And if a job comes along, you say yes to it. Did that for like about 10 years. And then suddenly you went, Oh my God, I want to have children. I've now got four. I doubt if we'll ever bloody travel again. Cause it's too blink and expensive. Oh, you will at some point. It is expensive. When they've all gone to university or they've all started jobs,

me and James can go, yay, now it's our gap year. Let's go traveling. There you go. The four of us could go. Yes, we could. Can you imagine? We'll have finally set them all off and we can go, yay, let's go on holiday. Take me to Italy and show me some paintings. Yeah. Let's go on holiday. Take me to Italy and show me some paintings. We have watched some huge returning shows this week. What were the last of us? Oh my God, I loved series one. I loved it. And I was, I was quite late. Well, I'll say that actually when we're talking about it. I didn't get sidetracked. That's all right.

And what were the last of us we've been watching? Black Mirror is back on our screens. We expect that lots of you have been watching these too and we can't wait to hear all of your voice notes about them. But we also treated ourselves to Bad Dog Academy on channel four. Oh, I can't wait. Oh my God. Right. What are we going to talk about first? Can we talk about the last of us? I think we should. Yeah. I think that's a good idea. So the second series is five years on from the first. So Joel has got himself a bit older. They've aged him up pretty well because he looks older, but he still looks really hot. And Ellie

now must be about 19 ish and they're chomping at the bit, wanting to get out there, go on patrol and everything. Just wants to kind of break free and do their own thing. And so I've watched episode one and I was overjoyed that it was back. I loved it. I was quite late coming to series one and it was recommended to me through a friend of mine called Tim. Episode three is the best episode I think of any TV thing I've ever seen of the first series. Yes. But I'm loving it. So we're straight back in and I'm just loving it. I'm loving it. Well I started series one with you if you remember

rightly. I'd only watched one because it wasn't up my street. You didn't like it did you? I've now carried on. Have you seen all, how much of series one? I've just done another episode. Yeah. I did it in Cornwall right on holiday. It's quite opposites there. I sort of started it then. Yeah. But thank God I did, because I don't think I could watch it. Say Mark was out for the night and I switch the TV on in the dark, I would be absolutely petrified.

I mean, it is so clever and so beautifully shot. It is outstanding. I mean, it's one clever and so beautifully shot. It is outstanding. I mean, it's won eight Emmys. Wow. I had to look it up because I thought I bet this has won loads. Yeah. Because it just looks like an award winning thing, doesn't it? It does. The zombies. Yeah. Because it's not, because it's not zombies zombies. No, it's not. Oh, you know. There's a reality to it as well that you could go, oh my god, I could kind of understand how this could happen. Because it comes from like a fungus.

It's not just, oh, you know, you get bitten by a zombie and then we're all just, I don't know, it's just... Yeah, it's sort of a comedy. It's not that, is it? And you don't actually see the zombies very much, do you? You kind of hear this clicking noise that they make. And you don't see a lot of them. And what really got me with the first series was just

their connection between the pair of them because he loses his daughter. It's just so sad. Have you got to episode three with the two men? And they end up living together and it's the whole of their story is for the whole of episode three. Oh maybe not. Watch it right because it's amazing. of their story is for the whole of episode 3. Oh maybe not. Watch it right because it's amazing. Oh have I watched that? Well you would know if you'd watched it because it's these two men, Bill and Frank, who end up living together because one of them has you know got all of the food, all of the guns, they've got the hideaway, all of that, and he's protected all of his place. Keep watching it, just watch episode three because it's some of the best TV I've

ever seen. No, I absolutely, no, I, as petrified as I am, I think it's outstanding. Well in the second series, they're now in this big source of... So what's happened, is it a spoiler alert, if people are watching series two now because it was so popular. So what happens at the end of series one? Where did it leave it? Oh, I'm not telling you. Oh no, I don't mind.

I'm not telling you. Because if you do watch it, I don't want to spoil it. I am going to. Well, I'm not going to tell you then. But you won't spoil it. But well, I'll just tell you that episode one of the second series was very good. But there was another episode on because now I'm watching it now in real time happening So I've got to wait for a flippin episode. But that's brilliant though, isn't that nice?

It's half brilliant, but I do like to binge watch stuff. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. And I've got to keep away from looking at everything because an episode came out recently and there's talks about something someone's been killed or and I've managed to stay away from it. So I just need to just watch the episode now before I spoil anything for myself. But it's still up there with what the first series was like. And so I'm still enjoying it. Because I'm so, again, because I've only done the one and the two, I feel that if I went back and said, Mark, we've got to watch this. Yes. I would get for it quicker. Yes. But I don't know if it'd be up his street. But the thing is, I think in the beginning,

you thought, oh God, it's going to be zombies and it's all but of it. No, it's not. And it's kind of not. It's more about human relationships. It's about the feelings of the people. And it's the pair of them together. He's their father figure, Joel, who's played by Pedro. Yes.

And it's just beautiful. He's so protected, but he doesn't want to be in the beginning. He's amazing, isn't he? Oh god, he's amazing, isn't he? He's fantastic. I think he is fantastic in it. Why has he popped up? Is he quite well known? Because you know all your actors. Well, yeah, he was in Game of Thrones. He played a real baddie in Game of Thrones.

Oh, okay. And oh my God, yeah, and he's done so much. But he just seems just the nicest fella ever. He's really, just really good. And I really fancy him. He's lovely. Even aged up? Aged up and all. Aged up, I think he's lovely. Yeah, fair enough. Really, really, really lovely. So I'm loving it. But it's funny, isn't it? Because we've got all of these zombie things. Like when I was pregnant,

I started watching The Walking Dead and I was really, really into that. And I got really quite worried because I thought, oh my God god if this happened now and I'm pregnant and I give birth we're gonna have to find a vet. I didn't think about just find a doctor to join our community if we do become like a real-life walking dead. Yeah. For some reason I thought we need to find a vet because that would be able to, if I needed a caesarean, if something went wrong deliver the baby. And it would help any animals that you had. That's true. But they're all gone anyway, aren't they? No, we've got two. Well, you mean in real life, we've got two dogs and four guinea pigs. No, I know you have, but I'm saying- But the dog-gings might have eaten them.

That's what I mean. I don't know. Are there any animals in The Last of Us as it goes through? Oh, loads of horses. Everyone rides a horse. Fine. Horses, bears. Oh. Yeah, I've seen horses and bears. Okay, fair. I haven't seen anything else. Oh my God, and also Catherine O'Hara, you know the mum from Chips Freak. Oh, amazing. Oh, so she makes an appearance, does she? Yes, she plays the counsellor, which I was quite shocked about. Brilliant. So yeah, you can catch all of series one and you can catch up with series two on now.

Shall we have a little chat about Bad Dog Academy? Yes. Now, you know, I'm not a dog owner. But I love dogs. Who doesn't love a dog? You don't own any. I don't own any because I haven't got the time. Yeah. Or I'd be irresponsible in buying one. But I did think, oh, am I going to want to watch this? Me too. I've seen loads of stuff like this.

Yeah, loads of dog stuff. But they've combined quite a few different programs. Honestly, it's lovely. You've got the lobby area, a bit like first dates. Yes. Very first dates, isn't it? Yeah. So the format is one we're used to and we all love. We know and love it. Nothing wrong with a little bit of familiarity. Yeah. Lovely big estate, lovely big house. Now, it says Nick Grimshaw hosts it. Yeah? I am really sorry. When I watched it last night I did not see Nick Grimshaw.

Are you serious? Do you know what Nick Grimshaw looks like? Absolutely, I love Grimmy. Did you watch the first episode? Yeah. He's with Bear Rowe, the dog. No, not first. I picked one out of, you know, I just went bang.

Right, so he's got dark hair and he's one out of, you know, I just went bang. He's got dark hair and he's got a real... I know who Grimmy is. I've got his phone number in my phone. I can't believe that I'm trying to tell you what Nick Grimshaw looks like. I know Nick Grimshaw and I've got his phone number. We're all right. You must have missed him.

No, but where was he? He wasn't in any other show. Channel 4 Bad Dog Academy. I have watched it. Has he done it all series? Yeah, he has. He's the presenter of it. I'm really confused because I saw all the lovely men and women on there, all chatting away, all the trainers.

I genuinely did not see. But he greets everyone at the door and he does something with all of the dogs. Oh my god, I need to know what episode you watched because I am going to have to watch it. Maybe I've just stopped recognising him. He's got lovely thick hair now, right, and the one I watched he was in a lovely white shirt and he was just lovely. I've got to look at what I watched last night then. I swear to god I'm going through every single episode until I find the one that you've watched. Well, I'll tell you the one I watched.

Which one? It was with Boss. I haven't seen that one. Boss is a Rottweiler and is in the back of the car. And you've got a lovely mum and son combo. She was 17 when she had her son. So he's 18 and she's sort of mid thirties. She's really lovely. They're

a lovely, lovely, honestly, this boy is so lovely. And she's a single parent. You find out that she ended up living on her own from 15. She didn't have a mom. So dogs for her have been alive because they're so loyal. But they get into the hotel and they say hello and you think, oh, quite a big boy, this boss, you know? And they go, oh, so come on then, let's have a look. And she goes, oh no, boss isn't the problem. This one is.

And she gets out this tiny little bag and lets out Gina the Chihuahua. Who's the problem? But it was so, me and Eliza were in stitches because you so, there you go, don't judge a book. But you so think, oh, this rotten one is going to be really vicious. No, Gina the Chihuahua is the boss of the whole family. Really funny. Really, really good. And then the other one was, it was really hard actually. It was a married couple. They had children at home, but they just brought the dog in and Bear was a cockapoo. Oh yes.

But the husband was really obsessed with the dog. Oh my God. Completely obsessed. And the wife obviously thought they were buying this family dog for everybody. But Tim, the husband, he's turned into my dog. So the wife and the kids really couldn't get near the dog. Anyway, but he was biting Tim. He was really aggressive, really. And she just said, this is a nightmare. We've bought a dog for happiness and it's going to tear our marriage apart. It is awful. All we do is argue. All we do is argue about the dog and Tim would never forgive me if we said, please can we get rid of it? And it was really, you just thought,

oh my goodness, it really put me off ever having a dog. Oh my God. Because I thought, did they solve it? They were brilliant actually. The trainers were really good and by the end of it, the dog was with the wife. Oh, that's good. And wasn't obsessed with the husband and they'd stopped, they said, you've got to sniff the floor, get his attention down to the floor. And if it's up, that's when, you know, he can become aggressive, but he was a bite risk. So, you know, he can become aggressive, but he was a bite

risk. So, you know, there was a moment where they were like, we could have to put, you know, if he bites someone, he'll be gone. It was a bit heartbreaking because Bear was really sweet. Well, what I loved about it, right, was that it started and I was like, okay, I would quite like to go to the dog academy because this mansion and the garden is beautiful. It was amazing, wasn't it? like to go to the dog academy because this mansion and the garden is beautiful. I'm loving it. And then you go into like, so you know, Nick Grimshaw is presenting it in the episodes that I saw and the tour opens and you go into this lovely, you know, one little lobby area

with all brick wall. I love all of the pictures. And that lovely warm woman, isn't she warm? Yes, yes. And there's all the little dog paintings on the walls and nice little vases and the sofas. I was like, I would move in there. I feel like going there for like a spa retreat. And then it's, you know, so you imagine it's going to be what I like, right, was that there wasn't loads and loads of music playing constantly to make it all quite comedic and whatever. That's right. It started and you've got and I really like that you've got like a load of different trainers. So it's sort of headed up by Victoria Stillwell, who's the most amazing dog trainer who I've

watched like for years. I mean years and years and years ago she had her own show. Right. And I bought her book and she is brilliant. She's just very calm but very authoritative. Yes. And she's like heading up but there's lots of different trainers. Loads of different trainers. They're so nice. They're really good and it's not music played all the time and all a bit stupid and whatever, it starts and it's very quite calm and it's beautiful and there's shots of like the lavender and bees and you see the beautiful like countryside and it's got like this lovely gentle feeling. And also sort of other dogs they're training that you might not know about. Yeah. But I quite like that. You don't have to

know every dog. But then there's also bits which are really moving and quite serious. I completely agree. At some points I did, I've got to be honest, you know my patience, my tolerance levels, I did get a bit annoyed at a few bits. Yeah. Because I just thought, if the dog's 18 months old, why have you left it this long? Oh, well it's all the owners, isn't it? To do anything about it? There was this little dog came in called Duggee and he was only small, right, and he was just terrified of everything and he's bitten quite a few people and then the last person he bit was I think it was an 80 year old woman. He drew blood and then they got a phone call from the police and he now is muzzled and

he has to be muzzled permanently and on a lead permanently whenever he goes out for the next two years. And he's genuinely been given an ASBO and if he bites again, he's going to be put down. So it was a really serious case. The trainer came in, she was wonderful. She was just very slow and very quiet. She built up trust with him and then, and he seemed the most beautiful little dog. He just needed time and just to be taught to be able to trust and honestly it was just it was really quite heartbreaking and it was really emotional. I also think anyone thinking of getting a dog should watch a few of these because I know we know it it's not something to just buy because you fancy it yeah it's hard work you're bringing

them up they are it's like having another child. You've got to put the time and the energy into it. And you do have to train them. And you've got to socialise them. And what I love is that when they're training the dogs, it's actually working. It's not like some quick fix. They actually are giving you advice that you could take back home. Yeah, you could. But I loved it. I just loved the way it was shot and it's just quite, I loved the academy, I loved the mansion. I found it really, even not having a dog, I found it informative.

I found it just really interesting and easy watch. Yeah. Lovely one for the children. And lots of different cases, like some sad, some funny, some just lovely and Nick Grimshaw is really sweet in the episode that I saw him in. I think we should say that our producer Becky has just told us the news that Nick Grimshaw did not host series one of Bad Dog Academy. I genuinely thought I was losing my mind, guys. Oh my God, so Nat's watched an episode from series one and I've not watched an episode from series two where he is presenting it. Anyway, there we go, he's cleared up. On to Black Mirror.

Now this has always been a mad show. Oh, God, yes. Very existential, very out there. Lots of ideas and thoughts of the future. The one I always remember was the pig fucking. Oh my god, yeah. But Black Mirror, I mean all of the episodes I've ever seen, they've just sat with me. They do sit with you, I agree. It's just incredible.

They've had some incredible people in. Yeah, and you think how? Because as each story unfolds, you kind of go, oh my God, I can see how the world is going this way. Yes. And how this can happen. But also, how have they managed to come up with this short film and this story? How the hell do they keep doing?

Charlie Brook is very, very clever, I have to say. Just amazing. Well, I haven't sat down now and watched A Black Mirror in quite a while. Me too. Yeah. And so I sat down and I just watched three of watched a Black Mirror in quite a while. Me too. Yeah. And so I sat down and I just watched three of the new series just all in a go. I watched the first one with Chris O'Dowd. Then I watched the second one, which I think is called Bet Noir. How was it?

Second, it was incredible. Well, first of all, I loved the one with Chris O'Dowd. Yeah. Oh my God, I found it funny. I found it moving. I found it sad. I found it funny. And then by the end, I was just absolutely just in bits and just weeping. I just found it moving, I found it sad, I found it funny. And then by the end, I was just absolutely just in bits and just weeping. I just found it so incredibly sad. And I thought, oh my God, I just thought about me and James. And I just thought, this is just so sad.

And it's this woman and they find out she's kind of got, well, she has got a brain tumor. And there's nothing that they can do to bring her out of the coma. And, but then this woman comes and says, well, the thing that we can do is we can clone that part of her brain, put it, you know, the clone bit back in. So she will continue, but you have to have a subscription for this thing to continue, you know, her life. So they get the subscription, which

was just like this basic, well, they think it's a one-off, you know, type thing. They've got to pay each month. But then, as what happens with all the subscriptions, which seem to be everything in our lives now, there's the standard subscription, because now it turns out you can go up to this and the premium and the whatever. And they can't afford any more. And the standard subscription that she's on, she'll be normal and talking. And then every now and then she sort of switches and just starts doing an advert. And then she's a teacher. And so can't just in the middle of talking to a child and suddenly she starts saying, if you feel the need to talk to Jesus, why don't you phone such and such and then he says that to his mum and then his mum complains to the school.

It turns out if she continues to do the adverts, she's going to lose her job. They can't afford for her to lose her job because the subscription keeps going up and up and up. And so then her husband has to resort to other means then to try and bring the money in to keep his wife alive. Honestly, it's heartbreaking. Well, so the episode I watched was called Plaything and it was fantastic. Peter Capaldi Oh yes. Wasn't it amazing. He played an older guy, his name is Cameron. And it starts off, I'm not going to spoil it because you're watching them all, but it was all about this guy wanting to be found by the police. And then whilst in police interview circumstances, he then told the story of why he'd become who he was and how he'd got there. And it's the whole story from right back in sort of the late

80s, early 90s, him getting a job in computer games. And they're in the office, and it's so well done, isn't it? You can tell it's the 90s with all the big computers and what have you. And obviously he's a little bit shy, a little bit different to the others, but he gets on with his job and what have you. And he always sort of feels bullied at school, he mentions all of that. And then suddenly there is a game that comes into the office and the game has been written by his kind of idol, if you like, in the computer world. And he goes to see him and he steals the game and he takes it home and becomes obsessed with the game. And he has a guy called

Lump come over. Do you remember when you were younger, I'm sure people who are listening will remember, you might always, especially at uni or if you lived in a flat, you might have a random person that used to just sort of turn up for a day and come and have a cup of tea and you didn't really know them very well, but by association they were just annoying, they'd turn up. He had one of these guys do and he was played by Josh Finan who we watched in The Responder. Do you remember the liver paddling young boy? You know the young one who was with the girl? Yes, he's really, really good. He was brilliant. He was brilliant in this, completely different, beard, you know, just

really, you know, you just say, oh, what an actor, you just want to see people in different roles, don't you? So he played this sort of character, he turned up. Anyway, there's quite a lot of drug taking in it. And it is incredible. And it ends, basically ends with this guy. Oh my God, don't tell me. Telling the police all about what he's done and what he has been doing for 25 years. Oh my God, oh God I can't wait to watch it. It is quite thrilling and really amazing acting. Oh God I can't wait. Really good. The police are brilliant in it. Yeah. Honestly it's such a good series isn't it? It is and what I really like because I love Inside Number 9 for that because you turn it on and you don't know what you're

getting and they're sort of 45 minutes to an hour and you just don't know what you're getting. And you're always shocked. It's always, you always just think, oh my God, how have they done this? Yeah, but I love the fact that each time you turn a black mirror on and you can just jump in and out of it. It doesn't matter. You haven't got to follow it, which I really like for this day and age. And you just think, oh my God, each one is such a standalone, brilliant, like one-off film. It's just incredible. Yeah, it's amazing actually. And so keep churning those out. Oh my God, I know. How do they have those thoughts? But it does frighten me.

Did you ever see the Christmas special? I haven't seen the Christmas special of Black Mirror. No. But I've heard that it's supposed to be really good. Have you seen it? No. I didn't even know if there was a Christmas special. I haven't seen the Christmas special of Black Mirror. No. But I've heard that it's supposed to be really good. Have you seen it? No. I didn't even know if there was Christmas. So we've got Ted Lasso Xmas special on the list from a listener the other week. Black Mirror Christmas special. Black Mirror Christmas special. Whether I'll watch them at the same time, who knows? Well, I'd watch Black Mirror first and then you'll probably need Ted Lasso afterwards to not freak you out. Yeah, that's a good idea. Oh my God, but it does

freak me out. It makes me go, Oh my God, is this what the world's going to be like? Do you remember the one years ago? Because I remember watching it like you years ago and everyone had an emoji face. Oh, was that the one? So the filters were on your face? No, I don't think I saw that one. I think I saw it's not the one with, what's her name, with red hair and she does, and you have to get like straight away from everybody. Yes. Is it that one? Yes.

Yeah, I have. And there were sort of people and all the emojis were in the air. Yes. I mean, we're nearly there. We really are, aren't we? We're nearly there. And everything, you can't do everything, and everything is rated on what your ranking is and oh my god.

Everything's about rankings. Is, isn't it? Or likes. Yeah. That's when I'll go off grid. Go in. I'd be rubbish in that. I wouldn't be able to like function or get through the day.

I wouldn't have enough to buy a blinking sandwich because I'm so rubbish at posting stuff and liking whatever. The only thing I put on is like dogs. Jane said to me the other day, she said, I don't think you've even got a photo of me on your Instagram because it's all guinea pigs or dogs. You post about us a bit. And you, it's guinea pigs, dogs and you. Yeah. That genuinely, that is it. I am so thrilled and honored to be in that three. I really am. And it means a lot to me. Good, good. All series of

Black Mirror are available on Netflix now. Oh my God, watch them. It makes me want to go back and watch all the others. Me too. And I feel like I could because I've forgotten after. Yeah, yeah. Because they're so sort of mad. Yeah. You can't, you know, you do forget, don't you? It takes a lot to soak them in. God. Now before we go, we've got time to hear a recommendation from a listener.

So let's have it. Nice. Hey there, Jo and Nat. Here's a recommendation for you. If you want something really uplifting you need to watch Love on the Spectrum. Season 3 has just recently come out, if you've not seen the others go back because it's beautiful. But season 3 is particularly just lovely, heartwarming, will make you smile, will lift your mood. It's a documentary about people looking for

love. Oh and it just warms your soul. How funny. So when we did Austin, we spoke about Michael Theo, who was in Love on the Spectrum and now we've got a recommendation. It's a sign. Yeah, that is a sign. We need to check that out. It'll be nice just to feel good. Yeah. Yeah. Aating show. Yeah.

Should we do that? Yeah, let's do that. Let's check that out. We've had some really, really good listening recommendations. Please, please keep sending your recommendations and your voice notes in because we wouldn't have a show without you. So, so true. Send us a voice note with your recommendations, thoughts on the telly

or anything else we've discussed on the pod. The number is 03306 784 704. That was lovely. That was. I tell you what, I'm just going to, after this now, I'm just going to go straight on and watch the episode of The Last of Us and another one, well, another couple probably of Black Mirror. I'm just really pleased that I haven't got sift through Bad Dog Academy to find Nick Grimshaw in the episode I watched. Well I'm just really pleased that I, yeah. That's half an hour that I've saved.

I mean I was going to go through every episode until I found the one where you were like he's not in it. I can't believe you watched the first series. It's unbelievable. Oh my god. Let's go. See you next week. See you later. Bye.

Thanks for listening. Off the Telly is hosted by Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page. The producer is Becky Carrew-Jeffreys. The commissioning editor is Rhian Roberts. And it's a BBC Studios audio production for BBC Sounds. I'm Hannah Fryve. And I'm Dara O'Brien. And we are back for another series of Curious Cases. Where we investigate the scientific mysteries sent in by you. Are crows capable of complex emotions?

What happens to our brains when we fall in love? And I was wondering, why do we lie? I think that one might be aimed at you, Dara. How would you know? That's what a liar would say. We tackle the mysteries of the universe through audacious experiments and expert insight. Curious Cases on Radio 4

and available now on BBC Sounds.