Off The Telly - Nat’s leaving EastEnders

Episode Date: February 5, 2025

Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page chat about all things on and off the telly. Nat and Jo discuss Nat's big news - after 32 years on Albert Square, she's made the difficult decision to leave EastEnders. She talks about how it's sad but it's the right time to go, what we've got to look forward to as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations, how she feels about the live episode and what she can't wait to do as soon as she's finished. Plus they discuss two new shows: Black Doves on Netflix and Brian and Maggie on Channel 4.What they can’t stop watching, what they definitely aren’t going to bother with, new releases and comforting classics – TV is timeless and no telly is out of bounds. As well as having a natter about what’s on TV, they share backstage goss from the world of telly, whilst also cracking up about the more humbling moments in their lives. Self-confessed TV addicts and stars of two of the biggest shows on our screens, EastEnders and Gavin and Stacey, Natalie and Joanna are the perfect companions to see what’s occurring on and off the telly.Timecodes for shows discussed today are:21:11 - Black Doves (Netflix) 27:14 - Brian and Maggie (Channel 4) Get in touch by sending us a message or voice note via WhatsApp to 03306 784704.Hosts: Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page Producer: Georgia Keating Executive Producer: Richard Morris Commissioning Editor: Rhian Roberts Production Co-ordinator: Becky Carewe-Jeffries Sounds Editor: Arlie Adlington Music by MCassoOff The Telly is a BBC Studios Audio Production for BBC Sounds.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Now, will you please subscribe to our pod on BBC Sounds and make sure push notifications are turned on in your phone settings so that you can always listen to our pod. Enjoy this week's episode. Hello and welcome to Off The Telly with the soon-to-be-leaving Sonia from EastEnders, Natalie Cassidy. Buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh. Well, I've just seen you just non-stop all over the news that you're leaving.

And oh my God, the most delightful photos of you. When, my God, were you 10 or 11? I don't know if we can call them delightful. Oh my God, you just look so cute. I was like, oh my God, you look really cute. And also, I was astounded because you forget just how many iconic, amazing storylines and things that you've done. I was like looking at clips of you going, bloody hell, you know, my God, you've done so much.

Oh, no, it's really... It's sad. It's quite sad, quite emotional, but it's time. Time for a change. Yes. Yeah. Oh, my God, but it's weird, right, because I know you now as you, right?

Yeah. And we have a laugh and we chat, but it was only when you, sort of when we were working in Elstree, when we were interviewing all of the Strictly stars in Elstree, you let me have a little wander past Albert Square. And I went hysterical. I mean, I just kept looking at you just going, oh my God, you're Sonia from EastEnders. I know, it was sort of like you never realised that until that day.

Because you are you. But I've been watching you for years, since I was young. And then suddenly I was there and I was like, oh my God, this is where you live. You are Sonia from EastEnders. Do you know that you are Sonia from EastEnders? Oh my God. It's like I'm talking to Sonia from EastEnders. Well, I've been on Albert Square all day today

and I do feel like Sonia from EastEnders because I'm drained. I'm exhausted. The poor woman. Oh, my God. Is there anything you can tell us? No, absolutely nothing. Have you got loads to do? There is a lot going on at the moment.

It's really, really busy. We've got the 40th anniversary coming up. How are you feeling about the live episode? There's a lot going on. Again, it's really really busy we've got the 40th anniversary coming up how are you feeling about the live episode there's a lot going on again i can't go into it but it's do you die well i can't tell you that oh my god how will you feel when it's like do you think you'll hear the music playing will there be somebody going will there be somebody doing a countdown like five four three two yeah i've done lives, two, and then we'd hear the music. I've done lives before there. And what's it like? You don't hear the music, thank goodness, but you do get a countdown.

And yeah, you've just got to go for it. And then do you just start acting? Do you just do it like how you normally would? Yes, but the adrenaline is so much that it's very high drama, you know. How do you know, right, when the scene has ended? Does the camera go woof and it turns away? No, it doesn't, no. Well, it can do.

That can happen. But obviously the wonderful floor manager who's on with you, you know, you know when it's over and then you get ready and you gear up for the next one. Oh, my God. It's half an hour of madness, but it'll be amazing. It'll be exciting. You'll be buzzing when it finishes.

I know. Oh, my God. The adrenaline will be, like, through the roof. I'd love to have a can of gin and tonic and a sausage roll. You really will. More than one can, I'd say. And also, we can't start the show without... Go on.

Oh, my God, the masked singer. Oh, Jo, do me a favour. I'm sorry, right, but are you bush? I'm sorry, right, everybody thinks that you are bush. I think that you are bush. I mean, all of the clues are making me feel that you are bush. Are you bush? I think Davina is onto something.

Oh my God, how do you mean? Well, Davina said it could be Morgana Robinson. Oh my God. And then I thought oh my god a minute yes oh my god what you think morgana's doing your voice yeah oh see look i don't know if that's real or if it's a double bluff you're doing very good acting i'm just saying that would make sense so all of these messages I keep getting oh my god are you being bombarded with messages you must be because I need my god

yeah there's a lot there's a lot of messages how's your bush have you been to the bush have you trimmed your bush it's getting quite boring actually I tell you the voice sounds like you

but I'm looking at the body language and the body language doesn't seem like you that you know sometimes like you look at them and then you go you can you know tell someone the body language doesn't seem like you. You know sometimes you look at them and then you go, you can tell someone, the body language doesn't look like you, but it's the voice it is.

It's the voice. Well, there you go. There's some very good impersonators out there in my voice. Oh, God. Oh, my God, it's killing me. This week I thought, please let it be Take It Off. Even I've started watching it now. Yes.

Because everyone keeps going on about it Yes And I was like Please let the bush be unmasked So everyone knows it's not me But it wasn't Oh my god Can you believe it was Andrea Corr

That she was one of them I know I never knew that I loved the Corrs when I was growing up Oh my god Me too Did you dress like them And want to be like them

And look like them I didn't dress like them But I had talk on corners On repeat Did you Yeah Loved it Loved the album Queen of Hollywood was my favourite Aww What does it go like I didn't dress like them, but I had Talk on Corners on repeat. Did you? Yeah, loved it. Loved the album.

Queen of Hollywood was my favourite. Oh, what does it go like now? I can't remember. What does it go like? I don't know. I can't sing, Jo, so I'm not going to sing. Why can't you sing? See, I was going to get some singing on top of your head. No, honestly.

I didn't even think of that. Honestly. No, yeah, I tried to dress like the cause, but what did they dress up? I can't really remember what they dressed like. They always had, it was a bit peasant style. Yeah. You know, like sort of, there'd be like a little gypsy kind of feel.

Negligee sort of top type thing with like a long flowing skirt and boots. That is all the rage now. Eliza, my Eliza wants to wear long skirts and the little slip tops. It's all the rage. Yeah. Well, my little one Noah looks like Kurt Cobain at the moment. I'm not even joking.

He's got longer hair than me. I know, yeah. He's grown his hair now. Oh, my God, for so long. I mean, it's like, it's literally, you know, his hair is down to here. Yeah, he looks cool. So you put it in a top knot. Put it in a ponytail.

He has it in half and half, but now he's going through a phase where he just wants to let us flow. Just let it flow. Yeah. Bohemian. Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah. That's good.

It is, isn't it? Do you know what I want to do? What? I'm going to dye my hair. Oh my God, how are you going to dye it? I've always wanted red hair, Jo. Oh my God, but is it going to be bright red, like a cherry red? No, no, kind of like Florence and the Machine red.

Oh, that's nice. Yeah, I'm going for it. Oh, my God. Are you going to have it cut or what are you going to do? No, I might put some extensions in, get a bit longer. Oh, my God. How long would you think of going? Oh, not too long.

Oh, my God. A few more inches. But I haven't been able to change my hair, obviously, for 11 years. Have you always? You have. You've my hair, obviously, for 11 years. Have you always? You have. You've always had the same hairstyle for 11 years. Yeah, and even when I had my breaks and stuff, I kind of was doing stuff and never changed it.

And I just want a drastic change. Oh, my God. Mark said, are you sure that's a good thing to do? Because you won't really look like you and, you know, work. And I was like, I'm just doing it. Just leave me alone. Yes. And after, you know, after two weeks, it'll probably go back. Yeah. And I'll just doing it just leave me alone yes and after you know after two

weeks it'll probably go back yeah I'll just look like Natalie again but be free I mean my god so yeah you've had to keep the same look for all of this time and I'm really really professional yeah and good so I just kind of always felt Sonia should yes you know have the hair I have and no nails and no you know so I've just always kept to it you're going to get your nails done and everything yeah straight away oh my god

I'm not going to know you I'm going to turn up you're going to be like where's Nat oh my god I'm quite excited you're going to be like a complete image change

yeah oh my god I was going to tell you right that just before I came here I went to the shops to get my eyelashes dyed lovely like literally the only thing I do to myself and, I was going to tell you, right, that just before I came here, I went to the shops to get my eyelashes dyed. Lovely. That's like literally the only thing I do to myself.

And when I was there, I decided to have a massage in the department store. So I decided, right, they were doing massages. So I've had one there before and I did like 15 minutes. So I thought, stuff it, I'm going to do 30 minutes. I'm going to do half an hour. And I said, can you concentrate? Like, I've got a really bad neck and right shoulder. It's really, really painful.

So, you know, can you like concentrate there? So he said, yes, okay, fine. So I'm on the shop floor, right? I've got my head in the thing and my eyes closed, right? Because I'm like sat there. So sort of facing forward thinking, I hope I don't see anybody I know now, right? Then he starts going for it.

But you're edged down at this point. Yeah, well, it was sort of angled. I'm not lying on a thing, right? I'm on a seat it. But your head's down, though. Your head's down at this point. Yeah, well, it was sort of angled. I'm not lying on a thing, right? No. I'm on a seat. And so my head is sort of angled like this. So if you were walking past, you could see like that much of my head.

You could see Stacey. It's a funny thing, though, isn't it, being massaged in public? It is. It is. Because at one point, I thought, God, this is really strange. I've never met this man before.

I don't know how you relax. I've never done it. I did. I managed to relax, right? Because if anybody offers me a massage, right, I will take it. I do a lovely massage. Oh, do you? Right, well, oh, my God. Will you do my shoulder?

I'll do it in a minute. This is really bad. And I thought, this is really strange, right? On the shop floor, people are wandering past, you know. But because of who you are, and I know we are normal people. Yeah. But even, and I am, I don't care about anything. Yeah. But even, and I don't care about anything. Yeah.

But even I might think, on the shop floor having a massage. I thought, oh, I don't think anybody would ever bloody recognise me or anything. Nah, no one watches it. Nearly 21 million people. He didn't, he was just like, it was a full body massage. But I say in that, right, it was really lovely. And I did manage to relax. I mean, I will be massaged anywhere and by anyone.

Well, I'm pleased you popped in early. No, to do something for yourself, it's really important. I thought to myself, I'm getting the eyelashes done and I'm going to get a massage. Good for you. And have some food and a wander. And also, I would just like to say that thank you very much for bringing in the two snowballs, which were supposed to be for the pod, but I've already drunk them. That's all right.

I remembered those this morning. I got out of bed, had a quick shower, popped down the stairs. It was about 20 to 6 and I thought, oh, snowballs. Oh, my God. And they're outside the door, outside the kitchen door in a plastic box, still from Christmas. Absolutely terrible. But they were there, so I popped them in my bag. Wow, they were much appreciated.

Do you think any foxes have weed on them? No, they're in a proper clip. What did you take me for? I had visions of them just being in like a bucket outside. A bucket outside? Full of fox excrement. Yeah. You don't know me at all.

I do because I know that you would never do that. We are doing the Stenders 40th. Yes. We've got a special for you coming up. I'm so excited. It's going to be good. Oh, my God. I'm so excited. It's going to be good. Oh my god, I'm so excited. We are having

the most wonderful Patsy Palmer, Bianca from EastEnders. She's coming in here and I'm going to get to talk to her. I'm going to be in here with her and you. I'm already right. I'm shitting myself a bit. I'm not joking. I think all I'm going to do is just sit there giggling because I'm

going to be starstruck. I'm going to say one thing about Patsy. Yeah. I don't know how we'm going to do is just sit there giggling because I'm going to be starstruck. I'm going to say one thing about Patsy. Yeah. That I don't know how we're going to talk about anything else. You know you're obsessed with hair. Yes. Oh, my God, is her hair just beautiful. Is it amazing?

She has got the best hair I've ever seen in the world. Oh, my God. Is it really thick as well? It is incredible, her hair. How is it? Is it just natural? It's all natural. It's like a lion's mane.

You have never seen anything like it. Wow. So I think there'll be a lot of hair talk. I know we're chatting about EastEnders and how iconic she is, but she's going to be an absolute blast. And she's played my sister and she is like a sister to me. So I will sit and let you two have a good old nag.

Oh my God, I can't believe it. It's going to be so exciting. I'm so pleased she's doing it. Oh God. So everybody, please send us all of your voice notes

about your favourite moments in Albert Square and my God, there will be loads. So any Bianca questions or Patsy questions you've got, send them in and she's so beautiful,

she'll answer anything. So go for it. Oh my God, I can't believe it. It's just mad though because I've been watching the show for years. I know. I mean, absolute years. And it's just weird.

I'll just be sitting there and it'll be like you two together and it's like, you know when you see people? Like when I first ever met Richard and Judy, I couldn't act normal because it was kind of like you were seeing these iconic people in front of these characters. And that's what it's going to be like sitting there with you, Tim.

Well, you say that about me. She is, honestly, she's amazing. And the stuff she's done as Bianca when you actually look back is quite incredible. So I can't wait. I can't wait. It'll be brilliant. But we need as many questions and as many voice notes for Patsy

as possible just to make it the best. Please. Send them in. Please send them in. We need as many questions and as many voice notes for Patsy as possible just to make it the best. Please. Send them in. Please send them in. Now, before we get into this week's shows, let's have a listen to what some of you guys at home have been saying. Bring it on.

Hello, Nat and Jo. I just wanted to say how much I enjoy Officer Telly. I think it's brilliant. I just lay there and just listen to you. you have me in fits of laughter i've listened to every single every single podcast it's brilliant but please nat can you do heather smalls impersonation i saw you do it once on a children's tv show and i thought it was hilarious cheers girls god can you do it oh my do that? It's amazing that he knows that. So I was on Live and Kicking.

Oh, my God. Now we're going back a long time now. Live and Kicking. Oh, my God. And I think I was on the panel with Robbie Williams. No way. Have you met Robbie Williams? Yeah, loads of times.

How have you met him so many times? He's such a nice man. Is he? I'll tell you a very quick story about Robbie Williams that I love. Yeah? I met him on Live and Kickin'. My mum was with me. Oh, my God.

So my dear old mum was with me at the time. She wasn't old then. And she took me around and whatever. So mum was there and we did Live and Kickin'. And hello, Evelyn. And he spoke to my mum and they had a chat. A few years later, I saw him at the Brit Awards. Yes.

So I'm older now. My mum had passed away and he walked past me and it was at the time, you remember that kind of, he'd left, take that? And he came up to me and he said, I hope you're all right. I was really sorry to hear about your lovely mum, Evelyn, that I met. Oh, my God. How lovely.

How nice is that? That's really lovely. Oh my God, how lovely. How nice is that? That's really lovely. Oh, that's really lovely. A lovely human being. Anyway, getting back to Heather Smalls. I think we were doing Hit Miss or Maybe. Yes.

Do you remember Hit Miss or Maybe? Oh my God, yes. And it was an MP people song. Yeah. And I did a bit of an impression of an MP people song. Just please, can I hear it, please? I'm trying to remember the song. Moving on up, moving on up.

Oh, my God, that is amazing. I love it. Yeah. Oh, my God. And I've only just thought as well, Jesus, we actually have heard you singing for a bit now. There you go. Oh, my God.

Wow. Very good. Thank you. Thank you very much. Really good impression. There you go. Oh my God. Wow. Very good. Very good. Thank you very much. Really good impression. Thank you very much. Have we got another one? Oh, have we?

I hope so. They're brilliant today. They are. Hi, Nat and Jo. It's Naomi from Liverpool. Hope you're doing well. Loving the pod. I am in the middle

at the minute of watching Celebrity Haunted Season 2. I love the show Hunted. It's not a new one, so I'm sure you've looked at it before. However, I was just sitting here thinking, how bloody comical would it be if you two went on the run together?

Imagine the scrapes you'd get up to. I think that would be absolute pure comedy genius. So get yourselves on it. How good would that be? Joe and the Bush on the run together. Joe and the Bush. Honestly. There you go.

There you go. I'm sorry, I can't even take you seriously because literally right behind your shoulder is a planty sort of bush and it's kind of like I'm going bush, bush. We've come in a studio. Why am I bringing plants from everywhere I go? Oh my Christ

I think we should put a call out there to say please get us on the next series of Celebrity Hunted we would be that would be funny oh my god

what do you think we'd be like because you'd be very organised you'd be good wouldn't you I would be running around just like

when it comes down to it I am pretty organised I think you'd be good head down I'd be focused I would because of your competitiveness yeah I would you'd be head down let's do this yes I think there'd be a few panics and I'd be good. I think head down. I'd be focused. I would. Because of your competitiveness. Yeah, I would.

You'd be head down. Let's do this. Yes. I think there'd be a few panics and I'd be like, Jo, stop. Pull yourself together. Get a grip of yourself, Jo. Oh, my God.

Do you think we'd ever get to a point, right? If one of them, right, was coming for which one of us, would we just split and run? You? You wouldn't wait for me. If it was after you. You would be dust. I'd be like, oh.

If they were going for you, I literally would go. Little dot in the background. Oh, my God, Nat, just take care. I'm going to go the other direction. You would. I love you. Oh, fucker. Jo, we've had a really, really beautiful voice note

from a listener that I think we need to play oh hi lovely ladies um I've just discovered your wonderful podcast so I'm listening to old episodes but I just wanted to say thank room um and we're also coming to the end of the breastfeeding journey so I'm feeling very emotional um so I've been busying myself just now um tidying up and whatnot I want to say thank you for keeping me company on your podcast because you made me smile um yeah yeah and I know it's silly because I know that obviously it's better for him because he's growing up but you know what it's like he's almost one and gosh time goes so quickly. Just a little note also, a telly thing. So I listen to your podcast from Northern Ireland,

where I live with my husband and my beautiful son, Roman, and our flock of Dorset sheep. So I listen to your podcast when I'm helping you have a lamb or I'm bottle feeding a lamb who needs a top up of milk and it's all very all creatures great and small-esque and I know that's one of your enjoyable programs and I love it too especially the new version um and also equally nostalgic is Heartbeat which is uh was a 90s 60s set police drama um it was on itv in the 90s and you can still watch it on itv3 it starred former eastenders actor nick berry and he played pc nick rowan and you have

guessed it i named uh my baby Rowan partly after PC Nick Robin because I'm a massive heartbeat fan. But also Rowan means little red-headed one because my husband is Northern Irish and he's got red hair. Oh my gosh, that's adorable. So lovely. You should get on the phone to him and say he's only one. Don't worry about it.

Keep him in bed with you. Keep breastfeeding until he's 18. What are you worrying about? Your Russian things. No, that was really nice. I'm not being rude at all. I'm just having a laugh. That was beautiful.

And Rowan's a beautiful name. Rowan is such a lovely name. A telly show has so much impact that you want to do that? Yes. Oh, that's so sweet, isn't it? What else have we been watching this week? We're doing Black Doves and Brian and Maggie. Oh, my God.

Well, I am full on into The Traitors Series 3, with Alan Cumming. I mean, it's taken over my life. I'm still in the Christmas zone because it started on New Year's Day, didn't it? No, no, no. The British one. And I've gone straight into the American.

No, we're not going there anymore now. We can't say we're still in the Christmas zone. It's February. Oh, my God, I am. I'm still on the Maltesers. It's February now. But I've just had two bottles of Snowball. Oh my God, I am. I'm still on the Maltesers. It's February now. But I've just had two bottles of Snowball. You have.

And I am. I'm encouraging it. You are. You are. You're the one who gave them to me. That's true, actually. But I'm full on, oh my God, the traitors. Series three, American version.

I've only ever watched our series, the English ones. I've never watched any others. I've seen New Zealand, Australia, America and Britain. I've seen all of them. You're amazing. You've got to watch the American one. You've got to. Well, talking of stuff that you watch and you don't tell me about,

we thought we'd have a little chat about Black Doves. What do you think? Oh, my God. It's on Netflix at the moment. It's got Keira Knightley, Ben Whishaw. Sarah Lancashire. Oh, my God. It's on Netflix at the moment. It's got Keira Knightley, Ben Whishaw. Sarah Lancashire. Oh, my God. The fantastic Sarah Lancashire.

She is amazing in everything she does. And in this, she's got a very English accent and she's very contained because she's the boss of the spy sort of division. She's very contained. Oh, God, it's good. I loved it. What did you think? I really loved it. I've only watched episode one

and I did have a couple of glasses of wine and I was a bit tired. So I can't go into much detail. Oh my God. Are you bullshitting me now when you did the first 10 seconds? No, I did.

I watched the whole thing but do you know what? I did fall asleep. I fell asleep Friday night at eight. Yeah. Saturday night, eight. I've just been really, really boring and tired. But you've been working so hard.

Yeah, it's just been really full on. And with all the news out and all that, it's just been a heavy old time. But all fun, all fun. Yeah. But I did think I loved it. I loved the start. I loved the way it shot. Yes.

And I enjoyed, I just didn't,'t yeah it sort of all unfolded pretty quickly yeah so there's a lot to unpack you know you go who is that who's been killed you know all that but I did think wow I really like Keira Knightley oh my god me too I loved her innit I really was impressed and I just thought she's fantastic and obviously she has of course she's fantastic she's had an amazing career. But I was really impressed with her just doing this drama and just being really real. I don't think I've ever seen her in anything modern. I know she has done like modern stuff,

but I think I'm used to seeing her, you know, in period stuff and everything. And then so seeing her as a modern day woman, you know, in this time, I just thought she was just so real. I love the whole way that it's all filmed in London. Yes. I love their London townhouse. Yes.

Oh my God, I love the house. I love Andrew Buchan. I mean, I thought he was brilliant. I love their jobs. I love the house. I love everything in London. And I do get what you said about the hello love. It's okay, darling.

Yeah, Ben Whishaw. Everybody needs a Ben Whishaw. Best friend like him who will come and protect you, that you'll phone and go, I need out. Hello, love. It's okay, darling. Yeah, Ben Whishaw. Everybody needs a Ben Whishaw. Yeah. Best friend like him who will come and protect you, that you'll phone and go, I need out. I need somebody to, you know, exit the building. And he was quite busy at the time. Yes, he was very busy at the time. He was quite busy.

He was, wasn't he? I'd forgotten about that. He was, but he's still there. I mean, credit to him. Bloody hell, he's still got there. Still there. And he comes in, he's like, boom, sorts it all out. And he's like, hello, love. Are you all right, love? Oh, my God, I thought he's still got there. Still there. And he comes in, he's like, boom, sorts it all out. And he's like, hello, love.

Are you all right, love? Oh, my God, I thought he was gorgeous in it. So tell me a bit more about it because I've only watched one. And if I'm going to be honest, if I'm going to pick up telly when I'm not busy, I am going to go to Severance. Right. So I don't think I'm going to pick up Black Doves. Oh, my God, I would, right.

So it starts and it's like, woof, you are straight in. I don't want to, you know, reveal any spoilers or anything like that, but you are straight in and there's like some murders. Is that a spoiler? No, I think that's okay. But how...

You're straight in and then Sarah Lankia... How many are there? How many episodes are there? Six episodes. But they go very fast. I... Once you, you know, when you... And for me, it wasn't like,

oh, God, I've got to get into this now. Because it's like, boom, there's murder straight away. And then quite early on, you find out that she's married to somebody from the government who's very, very high up. And she actually is a spy. And she's a spy for basically whoever pays the most amount of money in the company that she's in. So it could be the Chinese. It could be the Russians. It could be whoever's going to pay the most amount of money. That's who she's in so it could be the chinese it could be the russians it could be whoever's going to pay the most amount of money that's who she's going to get information

for and sarah lancashire is the boss of that spy division show yeah oh she's brilliant she's just so she's ice cool isn't she she's just so calm and calm and you know and something happens straight away and so kira knightley is called in and then she basically then spends the rest of it trying to get her revenge for something that's happened okay oh well maybe i will always carry it on no i did i really enjoyed all of it i was just thinking oh i've got time but no i'll put it on the list i will carry it on oh yeah and it's netflix it's netflix and then you go back in time to see how she was first recruited oh okay how she was recruited how she ended up you know getting together with her husband,

how she then had the twins, when she's tried to leave, but they won't let her leave, and oh, it's good. What I like is that you've said it's six. Do you think it could go again? I think they're filming a second series. Oh, they are? Fine. I really hope they are, because it's not very often I watch something and I'm like, oh my God,

I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed it so much that when I was supposed to be watching stuff for our pod, I thought, sod it, I'm watching Black Davs. You do what you want, don't you, Jo? I'm reckless. You crack on with it. I fly with the wind. Talking of episodes and ease, and I do think, I was going to say to you,

I do get overwhelmed with the telly. Me too. I know we do a telly pod. I just think we're so busy in life. I don't think it's a good thing. I think it's so busy in life i don't know i don't know i don't think it's a good thing i think it's quite sad because i ever go at my kids and you go oh you don't i don't want you to be youtube kids who just watch 10 minutes and then i think am i turning into that i just want to watch something for 20 minutes that satisfies my needs yes and then i'm

off to do what i need to do because life is so busy yes so in one way i do want to slow down and just watch something. But for me, that has to be absolutely mustard to be able to do that. Yeah. I'd rather sit down and watch the Beatles documentary. I'd rather sit down and watch Porridge for three hours. Yeah. I want to watch something that is going to bring me joy.

I want to watch Bob Dylan. I want to watch Martin Scorsese. Bob Dylan documentary. Have you seen that? No. Is it good? I think you'd probably fall asleep. Really?

I don't know. Oh, I don't know. I was going to say I might give it a go, but I don't know if I will. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you'd like a deep, dark documentary about Dylan. I actually quite would like that. Because we haven't done a documentary in ages. This is really old though. Yeah, there's loads of documentaries on. But anyway, moving on.

Yeah. If you want to sit down and watch something, it's got to be something that you're like... I really want to sit and watch. You know what I mean? Because I'm going to invest into it. And then Brian and Maggie came along. Brilliant. I thought, you know when it started, I thought... Two episodes, Jo. Two episodes. The first one started, well, before the first one started, I thought, all right, OK, I'll put this on

and I'll just watch the first one. Yep. Oh, my God, as soon as it finished, I was like, that bumps straight on the second. Did exactly the same. Love, debt. Love, debt. Did exactly the same. And what I liked about it is, you know,

whatever politics you have and whatever, I just found it quite amazing. I didn't really know about their relationship. No, neither did I. Interesting relationship, about it is you know whatever politics you have and whatever i just found it quite amazing i i didn't really know about their relationship no neither did i interesting relationship because both of them had had scholarships and they really really obviously clicked and got on yeah and then this sort of relationship and journey should we tell the list of what we're talking about yes because i'm rattling on yeah okay well yeah we're talking about? Yes, yes. Because I'm rattling on. Yeah. Okay, well, yeah, we're talking about Brian and Maggie. Yes.

Which was with Harriet Walter playing Margaret Thatcher. Yeah. And Steve Coogan. Steve Coogan playing Brian Walden, who was an MP for Labour. Yes. And then he was sort of kind of poached by LWT. He was. Yeah, because they wanted to do political interviews where, you know, an interviewer sits down with an MP or with somebody, you know, from a party and has a big detailed political interview.

I was going to say, not like now, where they're on a programme, on a Zoom for five minutes, skirting around the issues. Yes, a proper sit down detail. Sit down, just them. When he was poached by LWT, they said, we want to do a big interview and they put forward all these different names. And it was him who said? Yes, this is who I want to put forward all these different names and it was him who said this is who I want to interview, Margaret Thatcher and it was when she was first starting and what I loved about it

again, whether you like Margaret Thatcher or you don't like Margaret Thatcher you looked at that and went you're the only woman in that room I know full of suits full of men and goodness me she mean she was brave

she was wasn't she she really was she was whatever you think of the politics you go bloody oh that must have been hard i know and that that bit when she said um you all arrived together where have you been i feel like i've missed out on the meeting you know the the real meeting the real meeting and he said my god can you imagine dealing with all of that and all of the men and being the only woman? Yeah. I thought the portrayal of both of them, I thought Harriet Walter as Margaret Thatcher was fantastic because I think she really

captured her essence. It wasn't about doing like a, you know, a complete impression of her. No, absolutely. It wasn't sort of that Iron Lady sort of, yeah, absolutely that. She portrayed her just as like a real woman. Human being. Yeah. And I thought Steve Coogan was brilliant as Brian Walden.

It was really good, yeah. It was like a really nice warmth and gentleness and he was like, he just, he was lovely. But then also, you know, as he was building up his technique and everything with interviewing, he was fantastic. And then when Margaret said to him, you know, there's going to be one person or something who takes me down at the end or betrays me at the end. And then when basically, I mean, you know, there's probably lots going on for TV and

everything. But when he's interviewing her in the big, big last interview at the end, because he interviewed her all the way throughout both of their careers. Absolutely. And then he does a big interview at the end. But he came back, didn't he as well? You know, he'd had a break and he came back to do that. Yeah. And I think she really put her trust in him. Yeah, she did. Which is why she went on.

And he kind of did betray her. Yeah. And she said, this is betrayal. Yes. And it was quite heartbreaking. And only a few weeks later she resigned. Oh, yeah. I mean, obviously, yeah, for television purposes.

But I found it fascinating as well. Because, I mean, I would have been about, like, eight then. I think I was about eight. I was doing that. I doing that I was watching the clock going oh no I was born then Yeah, when it was like 77 which is when I was born and then it was clicking forward into like 84 and I was like oh my because I remember when she resigned and I remember seeing her when she came out and she turned

and as she went to wave and you can see her face crumple and then it was just fascinating then as an adult watching this and watching you know the interviews and knowing that it was you know the last one was just before she you know resigned yeah i just i did think you know what that must have been really hard yeah and again as a woman watching a woman you go gosh you you know good for you you did really well you know you succeeded in whatever job you wanted to do, but they pushed you out in the end.

Yeah. Yeah, and then her saying that they both went to Oxford on scholarships. They're always feeling the odd one out. Yeah, and always having to push and fight and fight and fight because you always felt like the odd one out and you knew that you had to prove yourself kind of more. It was fascinating.

And it really drew me in because it wasn't boring. No, and also you could watch that and go, oh, this is, you know, you could say, oh, it's boring. It's an interview. But I thought it was really simple, really concise. The script was really good. Obviously the interviews were what they were. But I just loved the graphics.

I loved the feel of it. It felt the late 70s. It felt the mid 80s. And I just thought it was really loved the feel of it it felt the late 70s it felt the mid 80s and I just thought it was really good really brilliant actually really enjoyed it me too I just loved just sort of

looking at that world and remembering what it was like it was also filmed I could see corridors that I knew really? so I was like oh look babe Mark was like oh look

that's Studio A oh have a look oh look the bar's opposite that so I could see that it was filmed sort of where we were which was

quite interesting it must have been so weird though back then going you know this is the first of its kind

these are like new things that we're going to do and an MP coming in and sitting down and what Brian Walden said

I like it because she actually answers the questions but after that interview that was one of the last or the last And what Brian Walden said, I like it because she actually answers the questions. But after that interview, that was one of the last, or the last, I can't remember what he said in the blurb, but the last ever, you know, 40-month-long interview with one person. God.

Because of the demise of what happened to her. Yeah. I wish we had those now. Me too. I'd like to see you interview a politician. Oh, I think I'd be quite good. I'd be quite great. I wish we had those now. Me too. I'd like to see you interview a politician. Oh, I think I'd be quite good. I'd be quite straight. I like your hair.

Now, before we start, right, we'll deal with the policies in a minute. First of all, right, where do you get your hair done? What products do you use on it? And I think it looks really nice and thick. I like the style that you've got right now. That's been dealt with. Okay. What are you going to do about this? John Major. Oh, now that's been dealt with. Okay, what are you going to do about this? John Major.

Oh my god. Did I ever tell you that David Cameron bowed to me once? So he fucking should. There is a photo. It doesn't surprise me at all to be honest. I love your answer. There is a photo, right? It was in the newspaper. I was invited to number 10 for St. David's Day. So it was in the newspaper i was invited to number 10 for saint david's day so it's march the first yeah so it wasn't because i was for any political party or going and whatever

it was march the first saint david's day celebrations so i went to um number 10 and uh it was just the whole thing was really quite it was amazing but really quite strange and everything hang on a minute. Did you go through the actual number 10 door? Yeah, through the actual number 10 door. Yeah, we had to go in. What's the hallway like? What's the decor like?

Pinstripe paper? I can't remember, but you go in and I think the carpet was all red. Of course. And it's all quite wide and everything. And then somebody takes your coat straight away. Then they lead you through. And it's all just very, it's not really ornate, but it's kind of like a big London ornate-y kind, but a bit run down, but not like scruffy, but just, do you know what I mean? Like aged and everything.

Could do with a lick of paint. Yeah. But they're too busy. Yes. They've got time. And then we went through and I remember David Cameron going around, you know, with somebody who was obviously then saying who people were or whatever. And then he came in and he was introduced to me and then he literally started bowing.

What, like that? Yeah, going, oh, and there's a photo of david cameron going like like bent over like that bowing at towards me is he a fan yes yeah well well i don't know if he was or not but i think he'd been told that i was in something or whatever i don't know if he was a fan he said he was because he was going oh i'm not worthy i'm not worthy like that so so i don't know if he was a true fan or not, but that's why. He wasn't bowing at me for any other reason, aside from the fact that I was in Gavin and Stacey. But yeah. Wow.

Can you believe that? Impressed. Am I? I'm trying to think if I stole anything from there. And I don't think I did. Did you not? No. I've got a bottle. I don't think I did. Did you not? No. I've got a bottle of champagne from Buckingham Palace.

Have you? How did you manage to get a bottle of champagne? My old nanny's dad. Yeah? Did clean the swimming pools there. Oh, my God. Are you serious? Did he make a bottle of champagne?

No, I think he got given it as a present. No, I think he got gifted it. Didn't he? My first thought was just... Stealing. Stealing. Well, I think he got gifted it. Didn't he? My first one is just stealing something. Well, not all like you, Jo. But he, yeah, and then they kindly passed it on to me. Oh, my God.

But it says Buckingham, I've still got it. That's cool. Oh, my God. I stole a napkin from Buckingham Palace. You've been everywhere. I've been nowhere. I've not been invited anywhere. Oh, my God. Right've been everywhere. I've been nowhere. I've not been invited anywhere. Oh my God, right. I did. I performed

in Buckingham Palace and afterwards. What did you do there? I did a bit with the RSC from As You Like It. Oh, how lovely. Was it in the gardens? No. Was it a summer's evening? No, it was in the throne room. For fuck's sake. The actors had to go back downstairs

and eat with all of the performers and everything. Did you have dinner there? Yes. What did you eat? No, but I wasn't... I can't remember what we ate because we were the performers so we had to go back downstairs

and then all of the other people who were watching us... All the other people had seven quarts meal. We just ate some scratchers in the kitchen. We were sent down there. That's where I'd be. Down there. Do you want anything? Do you want a few sausage rolls? You'd be were sent down there. That's where I'd be. Down there. Do you want anything? Do you want a few sausage rolls?

You'd be the cook down there. Come down with me. Come and have some fun down here. Don't worry about them up there. That's where I'd be. I'd be happy down there. I wouldn't want to be up there, actually,

if I'm honest. But me and one of the other actresses decided to go off exploring. So we took ourselves off, right? Was there no one sort of, like security guards number there? No, there wasn't. We went off exploring so we took ourselves off right and then we just no one sort of not security guards no there wasn't we went off and then we let we went off and we went around um the corridors and we had a good old explore and we went back into like the throne room and we

could see the two like throne things there and everything and then we went off and we were just exploring and everything and did you ever meet the queen yes i've chucked the queen's hand yes yeah because years later, I went back to watch other drama students performing. Oh, okay. You know, the thing that I had done. And then I got to go upstairs with the rest of them and then meet the Queen. And all of those drama students had to go downstairs.

Just eating their little short crackers. I've met the King and Camilla. Oh, have you? When did you meet them? They came to Albert Square. Oh, my God. What was that like? Yeah, right.

What did you say to them? Did you chat to them as Nat or did you chat to them as Sonia? It was very interesting because I think it's quite amazing, actually, the amount of meet and greets they do. I don't know if I've put the time in. Yeah. They don't really need to. They could just shake the hand and move on.

But, you know, he was really nice. And he sort of had a little chat and was quite... And Camilla walked past and then did a double take and came back to me. Oh, what did she say? She just said, you know, I remember watching you from a child. Oh, that's lovely. So that was quite nice. He's got very big hands, hasn't he?

I can't, because I met him once and I can't remember if his hands were big or not, but he spoke Welsh to me. Oh really? Of course. But I remember when I met the Queen, she had these gloves on. Because you think she must have to shake hands with so many people, you know, you can catch all sorts. If I would have been her, I would have

definitely worn gloves. Yeah. God rest her soul aww she was so wonderful wasn't she she was wasn't she she really was

always makes me laugh we start apart the amount of stuff that we cover is like insane I mean we've just covered so much today

and so many things, right? And all I want to do now is talk about working class people not going to Buckingham Palace. I want to do a pod on it an hour. Special. Why have I not been? But, yes, it's been a lovely pod.

It has. And that's what's brilliant about having a chat with you because we go off on tangents. Yeah, we do, don't we? We don't just talk about the telly, but we talk about all sorts of rubbish. We do. It's lovely. Don't we?

We do. Yeah. Now. What's happening now? Before we go, we need to listen to this recommendation from a listener. Oh, brilliant. We do love a recommendation.

They're very, very important to us. Hi, Nat and Jo. This is Louise. Thank you so much for your brilliant podcast, which always cheers me up massively on a Wednesday morning when it pops up into my BBC Sounds feed. I just wanted to really recommend a brilliant, hilarious, poignant six-part comedy series on BBC iPlayer

called Only Child, starring Greg McHugh and Gregor Fisher of Rabsy Nesbitt fame. Oh my goodness, please watch it. It's wonderful. And I've never in all my life ever watched anything on TV that more resembles my own life. It's about an only child and I'm an only child called Richard. He lives in the south of England and his dad is widowed and lives in a small town in Scotland and that is exactly my position the small town is so like the town that I grew up in and that my dad still lives in and the way that when Richard goes to visit his dad Ken like he bumps into loads of school friends wherever he goes and even the street and the house

that his dad lives in is like the street and the house that my dad live in that but the dad character is so like my dad like his mannerisms his sayings the way he speaks the things he says the fact that he's got this amazing sort of gruff kindness and this really loving heart underneath it all but also he's like super stubborn and doesn't accept the help that he clearly needs and I could not get over it honestly it was almost as if the writer Bryce Hart who I actually wrote to to thank because I was so moved by it um like knows me and my dad you know I couldn't get over it anyway I think you'll love it and I really really hope that you will include it in your podcast okay thank you so much bye oh that's lovely. That sounds amazing. You know, you sit there and you must think, this is so my life. Yeah.

I love that. You know, when it's relatable and so real. Yeah. I think we've got to do it, Jo, because you know I love a comedy. Yes. And we haven't done a comedy for a while. Not for ages. Yeah.

Can we do it? Yeah, let's definitely do that. We do try to watch everything you recommend for us. Now, it might take us a little while to get round to it or sometimes we just can't fit it in but it's brilliant to have these recommendations so that people at home can check them out too absolutely it's so true we can't do everything but we love getting them and then we just do what we can whenever we can and also we go through phases because there'll be like loads of stuff that or stuff that i've seen that i like like with Black Doves and everything but then you know

now I'm at a complete loss I've no idea what to start watching at the moment no and look this recommendation we're gonna do so we do do them

and thank you to everybody who's answered our call out for voice notes about your favourite travel shows keep them coming

and we're gonna be dropping that episode in the next few weeks once we've done our EastEnders specials boom boom boom boom boom boom boom, boom, boom, boom. Remember to send us voice notes about your most iconic moments on Albert Square.

The number is 03306 784 704. Oh, it's been so nice. I've loved today. Oh, me too. It's been lovely. And please keep an eye out for the EastEnders specials coming up over the next few weeks. They're right there, not to be missed.

Yes, do not miss them. Well, this has been lovely. Really lovely. So good to see you. Yes, good luck. Oh my God, with all of the stuff that you're going to be filming coming up soon. Lots of rehearsals taking place. There's a lot to do in the next couple of weeks, Jo.

Oh, my God, good luck. Can't tell you any more. That's all I'm going to say. I'm very, very excited. Love you. Love you. See you. Thanks for listening.

Bye. Off the Telly is hosted by Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page. The producer is Georgia Keating. The commissioning editor is Rhian Roberts and it's a BBC Studios audio production for BBC Sounds. Thank you. really mean. And looking at whether they're meant to deceive us. Or to distract us. Or to disturb us. And our pledge is to help you spot the tricks of the verbal trait. But be warned, this series does feature strong political language that some listeners may find an inverted pyramid of piffle. Strong Message here from BBC Radio 4. Listen now on BBC Sounds.