Off The Telly - Soaps wouldn’t exist without iconic women

Episode Date: March 5, 2025

Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page chat about all things on and off the telly.To celebrate International Women's Day this week, Nat and Jo hear from listeners about their favourite iconic female TV characters. They also tuck into a TV menu of The White Lotus and Am I Being Unreasonable?What they can’t stop watching, what they definitely aren’t going to bother with, new releases and comforting classics – TV is timeless and no telly is out of bounds.As well as having a natter about what’s on TV, they share backstage goss from the world of telly, whilst also cracking up about the more humbling moments in their lives.Self-confessed TV addicts and stars of two of the biggest shows on our screens, EastEnders and Gavin and Stacey, Natalie and Joanna are the perfect companions to see what’s occurring on and off the telly.Get in touch by sending us a message or voice note via WhatsApp to 03306 784704.Hosts: Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page Producer: Georgia Keating Executive Producer: Richard Morris Commissioning Editor: Rhian Roberts Production Co-ordinator: Becky Carewe-Jeffries Sounds Editor: Arlie Adlington Music by MCassoOff The Telly is a BBC Studios Audio Production for BBC Sounds.

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts with all of the episodes of our pod, because you don't want to miss any. And remember, it's really, really easy, because Jo's mum's done it. Yes, and if she gives Sue Paige can do it, then you can. Anyone can do it. If Sue can do it, so can you. Yeah. Oh my God. Ha ha ha ha.

Hello everybody, and welcome to Off the Turley, where Natalie Cassidy is now showing off her new, oh my god, beautiful red hair. It's gorgeous. Oh Jo. Well the thing is Jo, we are recording this pod remotely tonight. It's 10 past 7 and my hairdresser arrived at half past 12 and I've left her downstairs eating dinner with the family because we're not finished yet. Oh my god! Well it looks really really good.

Well thank you but I've not put the extensions in yet. So how has it been? It looks different, it looks different, it looks very glossy as well and it looks longer. Oh my god I love it! Oh my god that's so nice! Have you looks very glossy as well and it looks longer. Oh my god, I love it. Yeah, oh my god, that's so nice. Have you had a cut as well? Not yet, no, no cut. Oh my god, those bits look like they've been cut.

No, not yet, but I do think the front is a tiny bit too red, so we're going to just take that down a bit. Oh god, no, don't. I'm a bit scared. Oh don't be scared, go for it. I know, they're just so not used to it, I'm just so new, aren't I? I know, but the whole point of you doing this is to go for it. I know.

Go for it, big time. Oh, Jo, really? Go for it. Yes, go for it. There's no point in doing it half-assed. I'll send you a picky after. Can you tell me why you have now decided to dye your hair red? Well, I went to the nail shop this morning to get new nails.

Oh my gosh, they look beautiful. Thank you very much. She's showing me her lovely, gorgeous nude colored nails. And I got my hair done because yesterday I left EastEnders, Jo. Oh my God. How do you feel? How do you feel? I feel really good. I feel really excited. It was a brilliant day at work. I've had the

most beautiful cards. I haven't shed a tear, which is strange. But I had them. I don't know when that's coming. I don't know. Probably when you're in the middle of a supermarket, something will set you off and then you'll be like, poof. Or it'll be a musical instrument shop and I'll see a trumpet or something and I'll be sobbing. But I've had the most beautiful presents and cards from everybody. We had a soiree last night, which was absolutely lovely.

And it's just been a really lovely week. And I did my scenes that were really lovely and it's just brilliant. It's all brilliant. I just feel really excited now for the next chapter. That's just amazing. Oh my gosh.. I just feel really excited now for the next chapter. That's just amazing. Oh my gosh. Well, congratulations. How was last night? Did you ever hang over this morning?

No, I was really good because I wanted to remember everything and I wanted to talk to everybody. So actually it was fine. And I could have probably left two hours before we did. We left at about one and I could have left at 11. I was a bit tired. I think my body was a bit overwhelmed and a bit drained, but it was really, really nice evening and lots of people came. So it was lovely. Oh my god. I know. Oh wow. I can't believe that you've left. How many years has it been?

Twelve years this time around and then I had an eight year gap with sort of a few visits and then before that it was sort of another 11, 12 years. So all in all, yeah, roughly kind of 22 to 24 years of service there. Well, I think your hair is looking fantastic. I mean, it is the new Nat at the moment. The new Nat. Are you going to do something different every week or every month with it? I don't think so. I just don't think I could sit for this long. It's six and a half hours

and I'm not done yet. How long do the extensions take? I don't know, but they're going to put some tapes in for me, lovely Linda, and she's going to do, it's called tape tapes. It's different to sort of bonding where they glue the hair. It's meant to be better for it. So she's going to put all those in, then she's got to cut it. But she's dyed them all the same color as mine. She's very clever. So I don't know. Another couple of hours, I think. Oh my God. You're going to get to watch any Saturday night telly. Yeah. I'll watch it when she goes. Yeah. Because I'm not very tired today.

By the morning. Is she sleeping over tonight? I'll be like you. It'll be four o'clock job, which is normal for your house. Yeah. Yeah. So how has your week been? How are the guinea pigs? At the moment, James was spending Saturday night building an extension to the guinea

pig cage. So he bought another bit now. So he's going to take up the entire wall. Wow. Oh my god right and oh my I so desperately want the pigs to love me right. I just oh my god I feed them so much kale and spinach they absolutely love it right and I've now got them because when we first got them obviously they were really timid and really scared but now I go into the room and I do my little squeaky noise for them and then I go hiya boys how are you doing and I start talking to them and they now come out into the room and I do my little squeaky noise for them and then I go, Hiya boys, how are you doing?

And I start talking to them and they now come out to see me and I lift up the top and then I'm hand feeding them. And then Avocado was taking some spinach from me and then he was eating it and he stayed there and he let me smooth him while he was eating. And every single one of them came up and I was hand feeding every single one of them, which was brilliant. Do you feel like you're on that programme that you did? Yes!

Do you feel like you're back filming? Well, actually no, because I wasn't allowed to do anything like that with any of those. Oh, that's true. So now I'm like, oh my God, I can give all of this love out to them. And they're starting to bond with me. Oh, that's really lovely. I know. So James now is cleaning them all out. I think I've got the good job here because I'm in here doing the podcast while him and Kit are cleaning out the whole of the cage and

doing the like full on massive big clean and then they're building the next part of the cage onto that bit and then I want to do a corner area where they get like a little PlayStation and everything but I'm going to get that you know in the future but they've got a cracking cage. What do you mean? Do they play the computer? That is amazing if you've got Jervil's Eurogamers. By the time I finished with them right they were so well. So the cage is really long but then you can get this another extension bit which comes round and gives them a whole corner. So I want to give them that area for like a little ramp area and like other bits and

bobs and I've just got them this tunnel where you come in from like four different areas and you can run through and everything. They're loving that. Like the crystal maze? Oh my god yes, like the crystal maze, yes, like that. And I've got the tubes and everything for them and yeah they're having a whale of a time. So it's all been still full on guinea pigs. These guinea pigs are the best kept guinea pigs in the UK. Oh my god they so are. I think they're happy. I mean I think that they're settled

and that they're happy. I mean Kit gets Scruffadontae out now and he just lies on his back and Scruffa just lies on his chest and he's really happy. He's not trying to get off or he's just like really chilled out. And Avocado I think could possibly be the most relaxed guinea pig ever. He's just like brilliant, really good. And they're like Charlotte's coming out and having food and they're just really really good. I love them. It's brilliant. It's really, really good. So it's just been all guinea pig. I'm now though on antihistamines. Are you allergic to them? Fuck off, Jo.

I think I'm allergic to the hay, right? Because the twitching in my eyes started right when we got the guinea pigs. And I felt like I had hot coals in my eyes and I honest to God haven't gone back the same and it's going on now like over a week and my eyes haven't been the same and I've never in my life ever taken antihistamines because I'm not allergic to animals. So I don't think I'm allergic to the actual pigs and their fur but I think I'm allergic to the bloody hay that they have to eat. So you have to shove loads of hay in every day and I think that is what's making me twitch. So I think for the next six years I'm probably just going to have a twitching eye. We just have to see how that goes, won't we?

Now before we get into the telly that we'll be chatting about this week, which is the new series of The White Lotus on Now and Am I Being Unreasonable on BBC iPlayer. We wanted to play a few voice notes for you guys about your most iconic female characters to celebrate International Women's Day. Absolutely. Should we listen? Yeah, come on. Should we listen to some? Oh please.

Yes. Let's have a listen. Hello, my name's Nick Evans from Swansea and as you celebrate strong women on the podcast this week, I wanted to take a moment to recognize the work of the writer Tony Warren and also the amazing generation of actresses who helped to shape and create the beginnings of Coronation Street. When Tony Warren wrote the amazing triumvirate of Annie Walker, Elsie Tanner, and Ina Sharples, he changed the way women were seen on TV. And I think what's amazing is how the street went on to be defined by strong women from Hilda Ogden to Bette Lynch from

Gail Tilsley to Vera Duckworth. Of course other soap operas were clever enough to follow this formula so that when Emmerdale Farm started they went with the matriarch Annie Sugden. When EastEnders started they made the matriarchs of the soap, people like Lou Beale, Doc Cotton and Pauline Fowler. So I think women have been more than just a change for television but the women of soap opera have been a change for British culture in general because they recognise that in working class communities, in working class culture, it's not the same as in high class culture where men have the power and the fame. Women were the people who put the food on the table. Women were the people who

brought up families. Women were the people who solved problems and brought communities together. I think it's a key thing for our culture and British life as a whole that the women of soap stand tall in our television icons. Well I want to cry now. What an amazing, amazing message. What a wonderful voice note. And I know Nick Evans. I was in West Glam Youth Theatre with Nick. How wonderful. I've known Nick since I was blinking about 15 years old.

Oh that's wonderful Jo. Oh thank you so much Nick for sending a voice note in and also what an incredibly brilliant voice note as well. It's brilliant because I absolutely agree with you. After the 40th anniversary we were looking back and there were lots of documentaries on EastEnders and stuff like that. And he's absolutely right. Tony Warren brought women into the forefront of television for a working class audience and what he did to bring in the characters from Corrie. And he is right, every soap followed suit, but EastEnders, Emmerdale, they're all built on matriarchal women. The soaps wouldn't exist without the iconic women., Emmerdale, they're all built on matriarchal women. The Soaps wouldn't exist without the iconic women. They hold it together, lay the glue over it.

And it's quite an emotional thing to hear. It was a fantastic voice note. Thank you so much, Nick. You know, they are iconic and they do, they hold it all together. They hold it all together. And he's right, because upper class or middle class drama, you see the men kind of succeeding, especially back in the 60s, 70s, what we're talking about from the sort of beginning of soap opera, that genre. And the women were at home and the women were kind of carers and doing what they did best and cooks, and which is fantastic. I love all that as well. But what you saw within soap opera was the women,

But what you saw within soap opera was the women, they were the boss. And I think it's been a huge, huge thing for society. When you think about the millions that watched it and went, that's me actually. I'm not going to be put down. That's me. I can do that. I am strong. I am brave. So yeah, it's brilliant.

Brilliant. It was beautifully thought out, articulate and really, really thought provoking. So thank you so much. We loved it. Should we have another one? Yes. I would like to acknowledge the Reverend Geraldine Granger from the Vicar of Dibley. She's strong, she's independent, she's funny, and she's very, very sexy in a Vicar kind of way. But she is very sexy and she's very empowered by that and she's very confident.

And I think it was really refreshing, especially, you know, in the 90s, to see that kind of woman represented on television in the mainstream media. So I think she's really kind of a inspirational kind of character for women. And she kind of held her own amongst that big group of men who were all mainly, you know, there to annoy her and get on her wick. But she really held her own. And I think that really came across in the program. Aww! I so agree with you! Thank you so much! I love the Vicar of Dibley. I think it was Thursday evening we got into bed and it was on Dave and if it's on I've got to put it on. Yeah. Mark's like, oh come on, we're gonna watch this. I'm like, no, gotta put it on. This is why I don't get through the programs because I just watch repeats of old sitcoms. But I do love,

loved on French as Geraldine. Oh gosh, amazing. And when I think back to the telly I watched as 11, 12, 13 year old, it must have a massive impact on who you become. Because when I think of Absolutely Fabulous and I think of Jennifer Saunders and Jonah Lumley and June Whitfield and Safi, you know, it was a real female led comedy which I always watched and I love the Vicar of Dibley, Victoria Wood. I do think that really makes you go, I can do whatever I want because I'm watching all these wonderful women.

Yeah, oh my God. And yeah, whenever it's on, you have to just, you know, like the Christmas one, you can just watch it over and over and over. And it's true, I mean, you know, she was just like, you know, with all of the men in the village and she can hold her own against all of them and she's so funny and she is, she's sexy and she's attractive and she's intelligent and clever. I mean, she's just brilliant she's intelligent and clever. I mean she's just brilliant isn't she? And you had Alice who was brilliant but she was written as a silly girl, let's be honest, you know a sandwich short of a picnic which was brilliant but it wouldn't have worked unless you

had a really intelligent strong woman because otherwise it would have been silly women and men driving them mad and it just it was so well done by Richard Cattis. Oh my god, perfect. Let's have another voice note. Hello off the telly. My name is Matthew and I'm messaging from Canada. I absolutely love the show. I have two iconic female characters for International Women's Day. The first is Jessie Wallace's cat Slater.

I remember in the early 2000s when it was revealed Cat's uncle was the father I remember in the early 2000s when it was revealed Cat's uncle was the father of Zoe and the episode revealing Cat's abuse was horrifying but it really stayed with me as a young person then it was really eye-opening and made me made me more aware of violence young people may be facing at home that no one knows about. I always thought that the character of Cat's strength was remarkable given the challenging life that she'd had and continue to have. And my second character would be Sarah Lancashire as Catherine Kaywood in Happy Valley. To me, definition of strong woman, absolutely captivating TV. And I loved

that the show focused on a woman who was a grandmother, a mother, and also a highly respected police officer. Happy International Women's Day, everyone. Oh, thank you. Isn't it brilliant? Isn't it interesting actually that we're getting a lot of male voice notes about this? Yes, it is. I love the fact that it's so lovely that men want to, you know what I mean? I just think that's really interesting and thank you so, so much. My brother's very much like that. He's just such an advocate for strong women and I love it, so much. My brother's very much like that. He's just such an advocate for strong women and I love it, you know.

It's just brilliant when you're watching a show and you do have really strong women. I mean, oh my God, when Happy Valley started, everybody was like blown away by Sarah Lancashire. My mother-in-law just loved her character because she just, you know, to men normally who were in authority above her and everything, I mean, she just like just give them what for and just say it straight and, you know, do their job better than them and just my mother-in-law absolutely loved the character and so did I. I mean, it was just, oh my God, it was just a revelation and so joyous in a weird way because I mean the story was just so harrowing. So joyous to see a woman of you know that age to be you know an older woman as well just being just

the focus of it all and just so flipping strong. Yeah I think it was very very brave and Sally Wainwright's amazing. Her dialogue, the things she used to be doing on the way to an absolutely terrible job and then talking to someone and giving them what for about her family and her sister and the conversations they used to just have in the garden, just sat talking openly and honestly and brutally. And I just thought it was incredible. And Sarah Lancashire is just perfection. And Lincoln Kat Slater. I mean, oh my God.

She's incredible and she's created this character, an iconic woman of the square. Yeah. And as he said, it was such a harrowing thing. It was about her abuse and Zoe was, you know, born out of abuse. And she was fantastic playing that. And again, I hark on, but I just think soap do storylines, issue led storylines so well, and just make people think about it.

But then, you know, in a really, just a really well thought out way, I just think it's really good. Let's have another one. Let's have another one. Let's have another one. I know we should probably go with like some of the literary greats or, you know, Cathy from Wuthering Heights or Cathy from EastEnders, even more iconic. But a character I think that sometimes gets really overlooked is Rachel from

Friends because there's a lot of critique around Friends and how it hasn't aged well. But looking at Rachel as a character, she ran out on her wedding. She turned her back on her family, her friends. It was sort of high society, very well to do, thousands of spent on the wedding. And she, despite how I suppose internalized she was like spoiled and had been, you know, socialized and reared in such a way that like she was to go as her mother said, from her parents house to her sorority house to her husband's house. That was the way things were done in her society. And she ran out on her wedding day, which I think took really power and guts. And she evolved so much during

the show. Like she went from being like this pampered princess, but yet managed to keep elements of it. So she stayed true to herself, but really grew as a character. You see her progress. I just think she's overlooked so much. Rachel from Friends is a brilliant character. And I agree, sometimes it looks like it hasn't aged well, but it was a fantastic series, Friends. It was brilliant. I remember being Jo in year eight at school, so 12, and remembering Friday nights at nine o'clock on Channel 4, and it coming on, a new one coming on, and being so excited about it. And I think again, that has a lot, you know, a lot to do with you growing up watching something like that. Do you remember that? Oh, it was so good, wasn't it? I remember that, yeah, me and my mum used to watch Cheers

and Mum and Cheers was finishing. And then mum said, Oh God, I'm so sad Cheers is finishing, but there's a new show that's just started called Friends. So why don't we give that a go? And then me and mum would sit down and we started watching it. And then it was just like, Oh my God, it just became huge huge and it was just brilliant. Did you ever attempt to have your hair cut into the Rachel cut? No but I might do later, about 10 o'clock tonight. I tried to but my hair was never ever thick enough so it just never ever would work. This is why I'm putting in more hair, To see if I can thicken it up Joe.

Oh my god when I see you next week you might have the Rachel cut. Shall we have another voice note? Yeah. I just listened to the most recent podcast where you had Lacey Turner and Kelly Bright on the show. I just wanted to say I am so in awe listening to you all, four absolutely fantastic actresses who have literally taken the world by storm, especially most recently. You're all just incredible, genuinely incredible women. And I just want to say thank you for the pod. It keeps me company every day when I'm walking my dog. 15 minutes here, 15 minutes there. It's an absolute joy and delight. Oh, that's so kind.

That's lovely. It is really lovely. You do realize, you know, I still haven't got over Christmas. I mean that Joe. No, I do mean it. You know I'm being serious. It was so brilliant. It was such a brilliant piece of television. I'm so proud to know you. Like like genuinely it was unbelievable. Aww. But the flipping EastEnders live episode and the build up to it as well, we've had two really big things in our lives haven't we recently? We have. We really, really have. And it's really special actually to come on and chat to you and we can sit here and talk to people. I feel like it's really special what we do

here. It is. It really is isn't it? And it's so nice getting messages like that, because you get so sort of stressed about work or with life and everything and everything's just you know, dealing with four guinea pigs on top of everything else. Yeah, building an extension on a Saturday night. Just getting messages like that and just thinking, oh, you know, everything's worthwhile and it's really good, isn't it? It is really good. I feel very grateful. Yes. Well, International Women's Day is on March the 8th. So let's all stand together

then. Absolutely. Everyone celebrate the vaginas. That's what I say. Yes. Celebrate them all. Fantastic. Because I didn't finish the first series of White Lotus when we started it. Yes. And then we're doing White Lotus this week and I thought, well what do I do? I was in a real quandary. I thought I don't know where to start. I don't know if I should continue.

You can watch each one in its own thing because each series has its own theme. Well I'm pleased you've said that Jo. Yeah. Because that's what I decided to do. I thought I'm not going to start series three. I'll let you do that. You can chat about that. I thought I want to start series two. Episode one. Yeah, also. Have you done any series one? I did a couple but I just don't finish things.

You've got to do the whole thing. I'm so frustrated because it's so good, right? And you would absolutely love it. I know I love it. I've loved what I've seen this week. I love it. And I got really excited because the woman, you know the older lady, who's really flamboyant.

Unbelievable. And I went, oh! She was in the first series. Oh, she's in this one. So I felt like I was being a bit of a fake. I know what I'm talking about, but I don't really. But I just think I love the characters. And I wanted to start this one because it was Italy and I'm obsessed with Italy. So I just love the music and the scenery. But I really what clever series it is. God, it's so good. It's really good.

Have you started getting up and dancing to the theme tune? The really weird theme tune. I was getting right, because I've started on series three, which I've been waiting for, for ages, because I loved series one and two. Where are they? So where are they based in series three? Because I haven't looked at that yet. In series three, I think we're in Thailand or somewhere. I think it might be Thailand.

So series two was Italy and then series one, I can't remember where that one was now. Wasn't it kind of the Caribbean type? I think it was. Maybe. Yeah, I think it was. Oh, I can't remember now. So series three has started. I watched a couple of those.

Yeah, well, it's really good, right, because you can watch it as a standalone thing, but it is kind of good because there are characters from before coming into this one. Yes. And it started quite slow and I don't like, they've changed the theme tune, which I was disappointed about because I think every single person who's watched The White Lotus was looking forward to the theme tune and just getting up and just dancing like really weirdly when the theme tune starts, right? But we've got a different theme tune and apparently they have said that it's because they're going into like more of it. This one is supposed

to be all about spiritualism and that this is going to be more focused on death than it has been before. And so I think it's going to be a lot darker. So it started quite slowly. The first two episodes have kind of been quite slow. But I've got to be honest, I'm absolutely loving it. I mean, I'm loving it. I'm just so excited that I've got the white lotus back on and I can really get into it. There's some brilliant characters again straight away. I mean, Arnold Schwarzenegger's son is in it. Is he called Patrick Schwarzenegger? I can't remember. That rings a bell. He is just so damn weird. Yeah, Patrick Schwarzenegger. He plays this really entitled son and he's got another brother and a sister and it seems

quite incestuous. It's very odd, the family. They're really quite weird. And Amy Lew Wood, who's from, I think she's from Manchester and she's using her own accent in it. She's just adorable and brilliant. And already in episode two, weird things are starting to get dropped in and it's starting to feel a bit dark and weird and everything's a bit off and it's just brilliant. So I am loving it. I would recommend anybody to start watching it now.

And if you haven't seen any of it, oh my God, start series one and start doing all of it because it's brilliant. Do you know what else I really liked actually in series two? And obviously I dipped in and I'm not fully there yet but I do want to watch it properly because I can tell I really like it. But some sex scenes that I saw,

I really enjoy the fact that they're with the older cast members. Yes. Do you know what I mean? I like the fact that it's not all glamour and that they're showing normal life. Yes. I just really like that. That they're in their 50s, but you're seeing a sex scene that isn't

kind of someone really toned and amazing at 25. I just found it really refreshing actually. Oh, just waiting until series two, right? Because Leo Waddall, he's in it. You know from One Day? Yes, yeah. He is in it in series two playing, you know, a real like cockney sort of like fella who's completely different. When does he come in? Because obviously we've got the quartet, we've got the, you know, the guy and the wife who are really kind of boring. Yes. Who are staying next door to the billionaire couple.

You know Jennifer Coolidge, you know the older woman, she's got that assistant who's that blonde girl. Oh I love her. Yeah, well she hasn't met a fella yet has she? No but the fella is from the family, is that not right? There was a few looks between the Italians and the granddad who keeps farting. It's brilliant. Yes, yes. So she meets him but then another fella comes in and that's Leo Woodall and

he's completely and utterly different. Just wait until he comes in. You will love the story and when he comes in and Tom Hollander is in it. Is it Hollander or Holland and not Spider-Man? It's Tom Hollander or Holland and not Spider-Man. It's Tom Hollander. Right, Tom Hollander comes into it and just plays the best character ever. You will love him. You'll absolutely love him. It's brilliant. It's brilliant.

Brilliant. So yeah, I really, really recommend watching this. I highly recommend it and I sound like a fraud because I haven't watched it all, but I'm really, really enjoying it. Definitely put it on if you've not seen it, guys. I think you'll really like it. Really good. So each episode of the new series is released weekly on Mondays on Now and Sky Atlantic and I've been watching it on Sky Atlantic. Yeah brilliant. Really really good.

And Jennifer Coolidge, she is a pretty iconic female character isn't she? Absolutely. In the end of a cool edge, she is a pretty iconic female character, isn't she? Absolutely! Talking about another iconic female character... Daisy May Cooper! Oh my god, am I being unreasonable? Jesus Christ, I put it on to start watching it. Yeah. And my God, when it started, so I've started series one, I'd heard of it obviously, but I did not know a thing about it.

I didn't know if it was comedy, I didn't know if it was, I didn't know what it was. I assumed it was just gonna be comedy. So it starts, you know, episode one, and she's on the railway platform with that fella, who I'm assuming is her boyfriend and everything. And then, you

know, there's all stuff going on and I was uneasy right from the get go because I just thought no. Was it series two? No, it was series one. You started on series one, right, okay. And I thought no, I felt uneasy, I just felt uneasy and I kept thinking no, something's going to happen, something's going to happen. And then when something, well I'm not going to reveal anything because I would say start watching it. But I was suddenly thrown into

this world and I'm kind of like, and it's, it's, oh my God, I just loved it because it's funny but it's really dark and it throws you off balance. And her character is living in like this, it looks like a really nice Cotswold sort of village with, you know, the mums at the school gates and there's always the perfect mum and she isn't perfect. She's got a son and she's married. She doesn't seem like she's in a very happy marriage. And then she meets somebody that she just clicks with, a fellow mum. And then, oh my God, when that fellow mum comes around and they get drunk together, she's just like... She just tells her everything, doesn't she? mum and then oh my god when that fellow mum comes around and they get drunk together. She just tells her everything doesn't she? Everything that's happened in her life. Joe

that would be you. No it wouldn't be me, it would be you. I was watching it, yeah well definitely I was watching it right. So it's Celine Hissley is the other mum who comes in and Daisy May Cooper gels with her. This is like what women are like in real life. You know when stuff gets written on sex in the city, whatever, and you're all a bit drunk, whatever, this was, oh my god, it was so real. I loved it. I loved it. I loved Daisy May Cooper when she was pissed and you saw her. There's a really quick shot of her just drunk with just her top still on, just sort of coming out of a pirouette. And then

when she's like dancing on the bed and oh my god it was amazing. I just thought Jesus this is how I am with my mates. Well this is what I love. I think it's so raw. It is. And it's so real. So good. I'm on series two. I don't really want to spoil it. Don't spoil anything.

No. It's annoying really. But again, there's some sequences, sequences of her just having enough. There's a lot of moving around. She's in a place where she can't believe she's in and they just get pissed. And it's just this sequence of them being drunk. And it is like, Oh my God, this is actually real. This is what you do. This is real. You know, it's just, it's so flipping raw. And when you are with your mates or when you're a mum and you're going out for the first time, you know, or you just need to just let loose or whatever and it's not pretty.

Can we mention Mr Lenny Rush, who is actually one of BAFTA, I believe. But Mr Lenny Rush is fantastic in this. This is really good. It's so well written. It's so real, but it's also got an element of the dark comedy, like you say, and there's some sort of really clever filming. It's brilliant. And I just watch those things in awe and just think, why can't I come up with something like that? Daisy Mae Cooper, I did, I was on a Joe Lysett show for Channel 4 and she was a guest and I was doing something

on the show. She was really lovely, really lovely. I just saw her make up really quickly and she just seemed really bloody lovely and she's done really, really well. She's done so well. She had a book out and she did a brilliant press thing. Everything she does is just really relatable. It is. It's so real, isn't it? She's awesome. So talking of International Women's Day, she needs a shout out. Daisy May Cooper, we love you. Right, before we go, Jo, listeners' recommendations are so important and we've got a really good one.

So should we listen to it? Yes. Yeah, let's do that. Hi, Nat and Joe. I have a fantastic recommendation for you, which I think both of you will really, really like. The first series is incredible. It's called Big Boys on Channel 4.

The third series has just been released now. I watched it tonight in one sitting. It's incredible. It was so, so, so good. So amazing. Funny, moving, just absolutely incredible. The first series, my god, it was amazing. Honestly, amazing. I was gripped. I laughed, I cried. It was just, I was scared something bad was going to happen. It was just sensational. The acting is brilliant. The writing is brilliant. It's incredible. It follows this boy that goes to university who is navigating grief, navigating coming out gay and he meets his best friend who's navigating mental health. It's so brilliantly written and it's so, so, so funny, but you will need at least two boxes of tissues. Oh, definitely.

What a brilliant recommendation. Get on the pod. Get yourself over here. You've sold it to me, love. Wasn't that brilliant? I was like, I can't wait to watch it. I'm going down now. I'm going to put it on now.

You'll probably be able to do it all in one sitting by the time you've had all of your hair done. Who knows what time it'll be? Is it too red? Is it too red? No! And you know what, I'd be really disappointed if you dampen it down. Will you? Because for God's sake, if you're going to do it, you may as well go red. I think it's really good. Don't dampen it down, you'll just make it brown. I've always wanted to be red. Always.

Yes, but I think it's gorgeous. I think it really looks lovely. If I was you, I'd definitely stick with that colour. Don't make it, you know, take it down. No. All right. Brilliant. But yes, should we do big boys then next week? Yes, definitely. I think we should because that was a fantastic recommendation. And honestly, we need those recommendations because without you this pod doesn't work. So it's really important. Voice notice on WhatsApp and the number is 03306 784 704. What a lovely app.

Jo, I love you. I know it's virtual. I can't wait for a cuddle. Oh my God. I know. I can't wait to see you with your flowing, gorgeous red locks. I'll send you a photo later. I look forward to my photo which will be coming in about six hours time.

About half past three in the morning. See you everybody, thank you for listening. Love you, bye. Bye. Off the Telly is hosted by Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page. The producer is Georgia Keating. The commissioning editor is Rhian Roberts. And it's a BBC Studios audio production for BBC Sounds. This is Danny Robbins here, host of Uncanny, with some exciting news to share.

The Uncannyverse is getting even bigger with a brand new Uncanny TV series on BBC2 and iPlayer featuring some frankly terrifying cases that will make your hair stand on end. But then we will be taking an even deeper dive into these stories with Uncanny Post Mortem a new visualised podcast straight afterwards on Beepsy 2 iPlayer and right here as audio on Beepsy Sounds. Expect spine tingling new twists and some chilling revelations. That is Uncanny Post Mortem. Join me if you dare.