Off The Telly - The Traitors Special!

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page chat about all things on and off the telly. Nat and Jo are beyond excited for The Traitors finale this week so had to dedicate a whole episode to all things Traitors. They’re joined by a truly villainous traitor from Series 2, Paul Gorton, who talks tactics for the final, who he would have chosen to recruit this series and how he got into the zone (army style) for when he was in the castle. Plus they give 100% faithful Tyler from this series a call to find out what it’s like being a faithful and how on earth Linda stayed in for so long.What they can’t stop watching, what they definitely aren’t going to bother with, new releases and comforting classics – TV is timeless and no telly is out of bounds. As well as having a natter about what’s on TV, they share backstage goss from the world of telly, whilst also cracking up about the more humbling moments in their lives. Self-confessed TV addicts and stars of two of the biggest shows on our screens, EastEnders and Gavin and Stacey, Natalie and Joanna are the perfect companions to see what’s occurring on and off the telly. Get in touch by sending us a message or voice note via WhatsApp to 03306 784704.Hosts: Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page Producer: Georgia Keating Executive Producer: James Robinson Commissioning Editor: Rhian Roberts Production Co-ordinator: Becky Carewe-Jeffries Sounds Editor: Arlie Adlington Music by MCassoOff The Telly is a BBC Studios Audio Production for BBC Sounds.

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Guys, please make sure you subscribe to our pod. Make sure you push notifications a turn on. It means you know when a new episode is dropping and is coming out and it's there for you to listen to immediately. So please, please subscribe to the pod. And we've got a spoiler warning. This episode is going to be all about the traitors.

So please make sure that you are up to date before listening. Massive spoilers in this. Massive. We are doing a traitors special today. Oh my God, I can't believe it. It's so good because we're both so into it. And I think the whole nation, I mean, not everybody, but everybody loves it. This is the sort of show that just does take over, isn't it?

It does. It's different to the others. When the Traitors comes on and when you've got Claudia, it's like, boom, something else. Something else. And you're waiting and waiting. And I think the Wednesday, Thursday, Friday is very clever. Yes. Because I am bereft. Yeah. Over the weekend and Monday and Tuesday. And I think the Wednesday, Thursday, Friday is very clever. Yes. Because I am bereft.

Yeah. Over the weekend and Monday and Tuesday. Yeah. And I can't bear it. Monday, Tuesday went, well, Monday, Tuesday, yeah. The Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. With Linda gone now, I mean, she was, you know, an ultimate hun. Yes.

And she was so entertaining. Yeah. I just thought she was absolutely brilliant with her bad acting and everything i just she was she was absolutely so good so bad but so good yeah and i just really liked her but i really loved look we're gonna we're gonna get into it we're gonna get into it we've got a special we've got such a good episode for you guys because we promised you a traitor and we have got you the one and only Paul Gorton. Do you know, last time I saw Paul Gorton, right?

It was at the TV Choice Awards. Oh, I remember you saying, yeah. And I threw him, I saw him, and I've never done this before. I ran and I went, oh my God, it's Paul, it's Paul. Can I have my photo taken with you? I was so, I just jumped on him. And then I threw my phone at someone and went, just take a photo. And my camera landed on the floor and I didn't care that I was making a show of myself. I thought I have to

have a photo taken with Paul. And I had a photo taken with Paul at the same awards ceremony I believe. Oh my god really? Yeah. And now we've got him in our studio. We're going to have him in in a little while. We could lock the door and never let him out again. We could do that but I'm not sure if we should Jo.

But I know he's one of your favourites, so I can't wait for him to get in and have a little natter with you. Oh, God, yes. I might let you two, you know, run a bit loose with it. Before we get Paul in, funny thing happened at the weekend. What? You know, last week we were chatting about traitors, obviously, and I said to you i loved tyler yes

and i loved his voice and his accent and he was just so good and i was really annoyed that he'd gone yeah sent me a dm over the weekend oh my god he sent me a little dm he said oh natalie uh some one of my family members or a friend um listens to your pod and said that you really like my accent i'm absolutely made up and over the moon. So I said, hello, Tyler. I thought you were absolutely brilliant. So we had a little exchange and then I said,

we're doing a trade special on Monday. Can we give you a ring? So we are going to give Tyler a little call. Oh my God, this is so exciting. Yeah. Because Tyler went before his time, didn't he? And he's known everyone that we're watching now. Oh, my God, he has.

So we can get the inside info. This is like literally right now, right, the series that is on right now, this minute, we have got him. Right, let's give him a call. Here we go. Oh, my God, come on. Here we go. Here we go.

Oh, God, I'm nervous. I'm nervous. He's a faithful. Hello? go. Oh, God, I'm nervous. I'm nervous. He's a faithful. Hello. Hello, Tyler. It's Natalie Cassidy. How are we? Right?

Oh, you're right. Hang on. Look, Joe's here as well. Hiya, Tyler. It's Joanna Page. We're so excited to talk to you. We're so excited. Oh, I'm excited.

Don't worry. I'm very excited. Oh, your lovely accent. Yes, you have got a gorgeous accent. I've always, I told you, got a lovely voice from day one when I saw you on the train. I thought, I love him. He's brilliant. You were absolutely fantastic.

And we were so, so sad to see you go. I know. Well, you know, it's the game, isn't it? So tell us about it. I know you've probably not stopped talking about it, but as we've got you on our pod, we want to know how you felt going in and what it's like being in there,

because it's all so easy to sit and watch and, you know, say, oh, this one's ridiculous and they're not guessing this. But what is it actually like being in there? It's just like all emotions just all heightened, you know, where it just feels like you're on this roller coaster and, you know, you're just going along on it and you're up and down and, you know,

you've just got to ride through it. And obviously, you know, you gain big bonds in there, mates, I've made mates in there, mates, I made mates in there, and obviously they chucked me under the bus eventually. Well, I know, how did you feel that you were banished by all of your friends? I mean, Leon, I mean, Livvy stayed in there for you, but I mean, how did that feel?

You know, when Leon said my name, it was just like I'd been bitten by a vampire and all my blood just came out of my body. I just felt so, like, shocked. Yeah, stabbed in the back. It was stabbed in the back, yeah. It was just like, I couldn't believe it. No way, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Did you suspect Linda or Mina at all? Well, you know the first round table when we voted, I actually voted Linda oh did you I can't remember that now she was like ages go right it weren't really because oh I think it's definitely I think it's definitely it was just because there was hardly anything to go by first one yeah Nathan and I didn't think it was Nathan so for I thought, oh, I'll go Linda then. Yeah. And it felt really bad. I thought, oh, I'm going for an old lady.

This ain't going to come across well. Not that old, Tyler. For crying out loud, she's not that old. Oh, dear. That's all right. I'm only joking. But with Mina, could you tell anything with her? Or was she really, like, downplaying it?

Yeah, see, Mina, I always remember at the round table, I used to look over to her because she was kind of in my eye line. And I just seen her get upset. And I thought, oh, she can't be a traitor. She's getting upset like that. But then obviously you see her on screen, you're like, everyone's bloody crying. So, you know.

They're all crying. They're like Oscar winners, aren't they? Yeah. They'll be down at the Oscars winning an award. Have you continued to watch? I'm sure you have. You're still watching? Oh, yeah.

Because, you know, when I applied, Natalie, I really was just pulled in by the game. Yes. Magnet pulling me in. Yeah. I need to apply for this. I need to apply for this. I remember turning around to my mum and saying,

I need to apply, don't I? She was like, yeah, yeah, good for it. You never in a million years think you're going on it. So I am watching it as a fan still now, and I'll carry on watching season four, season five, whatever season you get up to. Yeah, yeah. But even the celebrity one,

you need to get yourself on it, both of you. We do. I know we've said that. We've said that, Tyler. Put a good word in, because I don't know any producers down there. So would you do that for us? Yeah, I will do that.

Thank you. I'm talking with a producer, so I'll let her. If you could let them know, please, that would be super handy. Is there anything that you would do differently if you went back and did it all over again? I've always said, like, even when I've come out and stuff, like I've spoke to other people,

people even come up to me and say, no, what do you do out different? So it's, no, I wouldn't, because, you know, I've always gone by, you know, no regrets in life and everything else for a reason. The decisions you make, you make them because that's what you were destined to make kind of thing. So, no, I don't say, I wouldn't say I've had any regrets.

You know, probably looking back, I think, oh, I shouldn't have been too friendly with people. But that's just my personality. I just warm to people all different ages, normally the older people. Because you're an old soul, that's why. Old soul, yeah. Like, my dad's mates and that, they're all messaging me. And, obviously, they the older people. Because you're an old soul, that's why. Old soul, yeah. My dad's mates and that, they're all messaging me and obviously they're my mates, you know,

saying what I've done and stuff. You know. Oh. You remind me of me. I get on with older people, I always have done. Do you? Yeah, since very, even when I was little, I used to go to a friend's house

and they'd go to bed and I'd sit with the mum. Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah, always, always. Are you into bird watching or not? I don't like, well, I don't mind I'd sit with the mum. Oh. Yeah, always, always. Are you into bird watching or not? I don't like, well, I don't mind the old bird in the garden. I've got some lovely birds in my garden, Tyler, but I'm not into the bird watching.

I've got a book. I should do a bit more. You know, when you are going back and forth in the cars, do you get to chat to the drivers? Do you ever get any sense of what is going on or, you know, with the show or anything like that? So, we don't know. This is all the things that you don't know.

So, you don't know what the time is. So, you know, I'm into sports. So, I wanted to know all the football scores and they won't tell you that. You're just on your own, like in your own world. Yeah, yeah. It must have been really weird. What did you think? Something that's just come into my head, what did you think when you watched the telly about Charlotte

having a Welsh accent? Well, I'm still watching it now and I can't tell the difference. It's quite a second one, isn't it? I can't tell the difference when I was in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And did you enjoy, what did you think about, was it Friday night? Hang on. Yeah, it was.

It was Friday night when they had their dinner and they all spoke about why they were in there and all of that. Yeah. I thought it was a really good move because you kind of really then kind of got a feel again for them. It was a really good move thing to do. But who would you like to see win the money? That's what I want to know erm I don't know because

the thing is like I say when you're in there you all we've still got a big group chat we're all in the group chat you're never in a million years

I think all 25 of you will be in a group chat so you grow close all together erm obviously if Livy was still in there

then obviously me and her would be like brother sister in there I would have loved her to win it but yeah anyone that wins it I've always said it from the start I've said whoever wins this game I said this off camera to all of them so if whoever wins this game deserves it um because you've played the best game you've obviously won the money yeah I'd love a faithful to win it but if a traitor wins it fair play to you do you know what I mean are you allowed to have mobile phones but if a traitor wins it, fair play to you. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Are you allowed to have mobile phones with you?

You know, when you leave, do you all go back to the same hotel or do you go to like separate hotels? No, no. So you all go back to, I don't know where everyone's staying, but you all go back to your individual, well,

lodging, hotel room, whatever you want to call it. You all go back there. But you don't have a phone, do you, for like two, three weeks? No. No phones. No, so...

That was nice. You know, well, it was nice, but what I kept wanting to do, because my mum was the person that would tell everything, like any advice, I'll ask my mum. And I was coming back from the castle and I wanted to ring her up. Yeah. What do you reckon, sis? Do you reckon this is a bit dodgy behaviour?

Of course. But you can't. No, you're on your own with your thoughts. But it was nice because everyone, we all live on our phones, don't we? Yeah, no, I bet it was lovely having a break. It was lovely. But I bet you don't live on your phone. Because you're an old soul, I bet you're quite sensible on your phone.

But that's why I like going and doing my beer, watching my old soul dancing in musicals and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. Oh, Tyler, honestly, it has been so lovely to talk to you. It's been lovely chatting with you. Maybe one day I'll be able to meet you. It would be our pleasure. Absolutely.

It would be our pleasure. There's usually an awards do or something, and the Traitors win everything, so I bet you'll be invited and we'll see you there. Yes. Hopefully, yeah. All right, darling. You keep in touch anyway.

Yeah, I will. Thank you very much for having me on. All right. Say hello to your mum for me. I will. Don't worry. All right. See you, Tyler.

Thank you. Bye. Bye. Oh, wasn't he lovely? Oh, my God. He was so, so nice. Just want him to be my son. Oh, do you?

Yeah. Oh. I've just not had a boy, have I? No. So any young male? I don't know. I just want to mother. I do.

It's funny, mind. I want to mother everything. I want to mother animals. You want to mother everything i want to mother animals you want to mother male traitors male traitors and just sort of young boys in general i just want i just would like to know what it's like to be a mother of a son do you enjoy that oh god i do do you know what right they are incredibly loving and it's really sweet they just want to run up they're basically like dogs you run them out like mad yeah really worn out outside bring them in stuff them full of food give them a kutch that's it and when they grow up it's exactly the same i would say as a generalization until they

marry somebody that they take take them away from you i can't even think that far that's not gonna happen to us i've said to james that can't happen to us, right? We've got to keep being the fun family. You've got to be the fun ones. We've got to be the fun ones. So you've got to just go, yeah, cool, I'm fine with you going and spending Christmas Day

and whatever with them. You just let me and Dad know when you want to see us and whatever, you know, and then you just play non-stop games, have a laugh. This is the open house where it's really good fun.

You've got to just not complain about it and just let them come back. Yeah, that's a good idea. While silently bitching upstairs in the bedroom going, oh, we're never going to see come back. Yeah, that's a good idea. While silently bitching upstairs in the bedroom going, oh yeah, we're going to see him again. Yeah, that's good. That's good. I've got a little something I need to tell you, by the way.

What? You know how I keep going on and having a go at you about the Christmas food? Yes. I did, I don't know if you saw. Yes, I did. I was a bit hungover. Oh, yeah.

On Saturday. And I ate four milk chocolate quarantines. Oh my God, you are such a hypocrite. I am and I apologise. But there was nothing really else in the house and I just fancied a bit of sugar. How did you feel afterwards? Did you feel like you'd just broken what you'd said?

No, I felt fine. I felt a little bit sick because I was quite rich and I didn't care less. Did it drag you back into Christmas mode no not at all god have you got any more left uh no there's none left there's quite a lot of chocolates around Mark's still on the quality street the limp balls he's doing it all I'm still on the Maltesers James bought another box of Maltesers and I cleared that but I just kind of uh well he came in with them, I thought, are you turning into a feeder or something?

Maybe. Because he came in and he just like subtly placed them down in front of me. Did he? And I thought, oh, I'm getting a bit suspicious here now. Is he not eating them? No.

And neither of the children. And the children are trying to, but I've now got into like, I'm sort of like an old dog, growling, just going, get away. And I've now said to them, what do you think you're doing?

You can have a few. You're taking a handful, stop it, and then I'll clear the whole box. and then you eat them all yeah it's becoming a problem isn't it it is yeah do you know what is a problem you haven't brought my blinking snowballs I know I'm so sorry well so I think it's quite selfish aside from how busy you are with work what should have been a priority was the three snowballs that are still in the box outside the garden door by the way you better hope to god they haven't frozen no they haven't

they defrost and then I then drink them and then i get food poisoning i'm suing you no it's fine they'll be all right and i'll give them to you soon good so we've chatted to a faithful from this series oh now let's get a traitor's perspective on all things oh my god shall we chat to Paul Gorton from Series 2, aka my favourite traitor of all time. I think we should. You're very excited, aren't you? I'm so excited.

It's Paul! Oh my God, Paul, thank you so much for coming on to the show. I'm so excited to chat to you. In general, anyway. Do you know how obsessed Jo is with you? I do know. I've seen the DMs,

I've blocked her on Instagram now, yeah, it's getting too much now. My missus started having a go at me. She's, you don't know, underneath the table, she's restraining me

and I'm being held back on a chain. Paul, it is absolutely brilliant to have you here. I mean, we wanted to do a Traitor Special. I just said we've got to get Paul in. Oh, God. Well, you are, I think, I mean, you are like the most well-known traitor. You are the best traitor, I would say, that we've ever, ever had.

Well, I would say, I mean, Harry's got to be up there, which is so annoying. Yeah, but he's just underneath you, I'd say. I'd say so, yeah, yeah. For the sake of this podcast, yeah, yeah. I'm way more known than what he is. He'll you after this i know he'll backstab me after this again yeah it's great isn't it yeah i can't believe that you know what's happened after the show because we went in i said i want to kind of be a big villain and a character and all that type of stuff so when you go through the whole process and you're away from your family, you know, I'm in for a penny and for a pound.

So I was going to give it absolutely everything and hold nothing back. I thought, do you know what? I could have gone a little bit worse. I don't think you were that bad. Oh God, you were. I don't think you were that bad. And I think that you just got a bit overexcited.

Oh my God, I did. You did get a bit overexcited. It's so funny though, because you could see when it sort of tipped. And it was like, oh, my God. And then you knew it was going to be inevitable then, that it was like you were going to have your comeuppance. But what does it feel like to be like that character that was in that?

It's amazing. And it's you. Honestly, after the first couple of roundtables, when you know you're getting away with things, you have a little bit more swagger, you have a little bit more sway. In our rooms, there was all, like, pictures pictures of my family because you're not really allowed to communicate back of course yeah i took them down i'm getting up in the morning i'm going i'm going yeah yeah because i wanted to detach from like everything from reality yeah and i was like this is what i'm

going to do my aim is to go and win 100 grand this is what yeah so i took them all down stuck them under the pillow oh my just stood like you know it was good because you proper it was a proper character and you really was proper game yeah did you have a plan of exactly what you had in mind and what you were going to do or did you just like feel it from moment to moment no so I had a plan so like every single evening I would get back to my room and I would write scripts of arguments that was going to happen the next day. No, you didn't. Oh my gosh, you're amazing. And how I'm going to call people out.

So the Miles banishment was planned for days before. Right. Because I was like, okay, because he was so strong, it was making me weaker. And three traitors is never going to win. I don't even think two traitors can win that game. So my brain goes, okay, well, it's me or you because Harry's got nothing on him so far.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No one's even battening an eyelid. But Miles wasn't getting involved in the games. He didn't look like he was scared at all and all that type of stuff. And I was like, oh, I could bring them up. I just need a big moment. So let's kill Diane, who's his biggest partner.

And then I'll go for Miles. That was all wrote down. God. That's absolutely brilliant. I'm just following a script. Paul, we've got you here. Traitor's special. It's on at the moment. We was all wrote down. God. That's absolutely brilliant. I'm just following a script. Paul, we've got you here. Traitor's special. It's on at the moment.

We're obsessed with it. Yes. Tell us about your thoughts. What do you think? Do you know what? I think it's going to get harder and harder as the seasons go on. I feel like this is almost season two. I know it's season three.

I feel like it's season two because the first season, I see it as like a pilot. It was people that were put into a castle. No one quite knows what they're up to. Well well they had to learn the game when they got there yeah so they had to kind of find their way then season two people was like we went in there and we had a look and it was like well we've watched all of these people do it so now we're gonna do it so that felt like the first proper go at it type of thing and then the pressure they've got and i think this is why a lot of them are crumbling, because they've got two seasons worth and they're still getting it wrong.

Yes. And it's like, we've got so much source material. But they're getting it so wrong. So wrong. So wrong. But if you notice as well, I've got a great stat. Do you want to know a great stat? Yes.

This is stat heavy on the pod. So season two, our first six episodes, there was six individual cry events. Six cries. Yeah. I was probably three of them. Two of them were real. One of them's fake. cry events. Six cries. Yeah. I was probably three of them. Two of them were real. One of them's fake. Or they were all fake.

Yeah. In season three, there's been 28 episodes of crying. Brilliant. 28 cries. Yeah. And I think it's because

they're so pent up. They're so emotional because they've got there. It is the biggest show like in the country. So like, I think that's why they're more emotional. It's a lot to deal with but also get over it's a game also put yourself in there right and also all of this oh oh coming out the coffin i wonder why he was a bit oh come on i think right i can't believe so and so picked up their own head can't you that it's a huge thing. I can't believe so-and-so picked up their own head. Can't you? Yeah.

It's a game, Frankie. It's a game. She wants a blinking thing, a shield. Everyone's a bit too highly strung and a bit emotional for my liking. I think it's been cast very young this year. I think, first of all, it's difficult coming after your season because you were all, it was just amazing. But also, I think it's been cast very young.

So you've got lots of detail. I disagree with that. Do you? Yeah. Why? Because you've had lots of detail I disagree with that do you why because you've had Linda you've had two you've got Linda

and you've got Lisa where are like the 50 year old men Frankie's not banished we had Keith they got rid of him yes

early doors in this season if you're a personality if you're happy if you're calm you are a traitor I think in this season everyone's trying to play producer.

Well, the producers, I think, would pick them. Or Claudia, I think, would pick them to be traitors. Rather than looking at obvious things like, well, when he said traitor or she said traitor, she turned her head. I know. I can't believe that that was literally, as soon as I saw Linda doing that, I was like, oh, my God. And then they kept that and talking about it.

She was good, though. She was fun, Linda, to watch, wasn't she? Linda was like, I think she was like the best, my God. And then they kept that and talking about it. She was good, though. She was fun, Linda, to watch, wasn't she? Linda was like, I think... I thought she was great. She was like the best, worst traitor. Yeah. And she was incredible. And she was terrible.

Yeah. But she lasted for six episodes or seven episodes, whatever it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, it's the fables. I can't believe, when you were there, did you find it easy to whip everybody up and turn everybody,

because they seem to go into the round table and everybody's decided that they're going to vote for someone. And then they just mention one name, like, oh, Tyler or whatever. And then suddenly it's like, woof, everyone's just changed. Yeah, it is him. Well, the thing is, I think this show is not about finding traitors if you're a faithful. It's just about survival.

So it doesn't really matter who's being called out at the table. It's not you. Yes. So if it's a traitor, then great. And if it's a faithful then great and if it's a faithful then great i get to stay here for another night i think it's a survival game rather than a yes let's go and find that person the thing that kind of winds me up a little bit is like if someone finds a traitor and they call them out at the table and they've got no backing

and then they and that traitor gets one vote and it's like yeah you should have kind of planted seeds and steered everyone you need four or five people in order to get someone out yeah and that's why i think jazz fell down he didn't do enough work to get me out and that's when harry swooped in and obviously did yeah probably the biggest takedown of a traitor that i've ever seen yeah but even that like in my banishment it was like electric and i knew it was coming did you how could you tell how could you tell everyone switches off from you. So we've just greeted each other when we walked in. That wouldn't happen.

No. No. People would kind of move their eyeballs away from you. They would kind of stay in a little conversation. You'd enter a room. They'd leave. Oh, my God. I've got a bit of a battle on my hands coming here.

But my brain kept going, how is this all happening? And I didn't realise that there was stories being told about me behind my back, which is part of the game, until the round table. And then when I watched it back, I was going, oh, that's what happened that got me out. It's so crazy. But a big part is faithfuls tell more lies than traitors. The faithfuls just kind of...

I feel like humans, when they're put in a really stressful environment and it's like you might be a liar, I think that makes them lie more. And in this season, everyone's telling lies. People are saying, I'm Welsh. I know. And you're not Welsh. I'm in the army.

I'm telling them I'm in the army. There's so many kind of like secrets faithfuls are holding back. Yes, there are. So it's almost like there's 22 traitors in the room instead of just three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's amazing to see it play out. Yeah. How long does the round table go on for ages yeah i'm not allowed to give specifics but i'm sure it's on google but it's ages yeah yeah everyone has a go

yeah and then they edit what they want yeah so if you think there's kind of oh he was quiet in that round table well they probably just didn't really say anything that fit or they might have repeated something so you don't need it again. Exactly right. Yeah, yeah. Because they've got to squeeze down a day's worth of film in 22 people into an hour and go like, okay, well, I mean, how many stories is in one episode?

Is it two? Is it three? I'm obsessed with Francesca. I like her. I like her clothes. I like her clothes and I like her shoulders. And I think she's so pretty. Yes.

Is she the one with the puffy shoulders? Yeah. She had a lovely brown corduroy jacket on the other day. She wears lovely fit. I really like her clothes and I like her shoulders. And I think she's so pretty. Yes. Is she the one with the puffy shoulders? Yes. She had a lovely brown corduroy jacket on the other day. She wears lovely fit. I really like her a lot. What was the shoes? She mentioned a shoe the other day, didn't she? She said something about...

She did a slingback as she was running down the grass. She's very stylish. She might be a bit of an icon after the show. I think everyone watches the show and they look for the standouts. And I think you've got young Freddie in the shower. Oh, he's great. He's a young, good-looking lad's good young good looking lad yeah so for the youngsters great yeah yeah yeah annoying when you're like 37 with two kids and 16 stones you know what i mean yeah rain it in always put a top on him don't put him in the shower when i'm sat next to kate yeah he's looking at me more and more

like a friend at the moment honestly i feel like a flatmate. Sometimes I'll kind of like drop a little bit of trouser or something, not interested, not even a second look. Really? She's like, I'm breastfeeding,

just trying to go away. She's very, very beautiful, your wife though, isn't she? She's gorgeous. But she's got a terrible personality because she's so good looking,

she's never had to work on me. Yeah, she hasn't had to work the efforts. Whereas me, great personality and then not good on the eyes. I look like Quasimodo in The Traitors.

Did you not notice? Do they tell you what they want you to do in those little bits, you know, when you're on your own in the room? Or do you decide, oh, I want to be in the shower, I want to be in there? Oh, in them things? Well, we didn't do them because traitors don't do them. Oh, of course not. Because while you're showering.

Yeah, no, no, of course. I'm planning on killing you. Yes. Because you've got your hood on going, is it going to be? Who would you go for now? If you were in there now, what would be your game plan now?

What would you do? Oh, well, I think the biggest mistake has just been made. What is it? Recruiting Charlotte. Why? You've recruited a game player. I mean, Mina doesn't know this,

but you've recruited probably the biggest Traitors player that I've ever seen. Someone that said, I'm going to start this season and do an accent. So I'm going to be not myself. Now, when you do that, you're kind of limitless to what you can do. And obviously Mina, regardless of what she says, she looks like she's backstabbed two of her traitors.

And then she's brought a third one in and then said, oh, I'll never do it to you. I've done that before when I brought Andrew in and I got banished yeah so i wouldn't have brought charlotte in i would have brought in alexander who by the way is actually sweetheart i love him so much yes hence why i was crying my eyes out watching it when he jumped into the bush well no that made me laugh because that was badminton paul that wasn't oh yeah what did you say we went and did the dinner party and he was talking about his brother and just the whole thing I found really, but I just find him really, really beautiful and kind.

He's always really, and I really, you know, I think he would have, yeah, like you say, he's so faithful. He would have made a fantastic recruitment. Exactly. But then also,

one episode, this is the power of that episode when they do the emotional stories and you get to learn about people. Now he's kind of too cemented as a faithful. But the one episode before, everyone thought he was a traitor. So recruit him, keep that story going and banish him. Like Harry did with me.

And because she's missed that and because she's backstabbed people, Charlotte, she did the whole, let's say a name after three. One, two, three, Lena. And everyone else was saying a different name yeah she was like oh so that is the second time she's brought up Mina's name in the show since being a traitor she's been a traitor for a day yeah yeah so she's I think oh she's gonna get I want to see like a gladiatorial showdown like two Amazonian yeah I'd like a bit more now I I think coming into the next week, there's only nine left. Yeah. Well, it'll be

eight, obviously, by Wednesday. Who's going to be murdered, do you think, out of the three? God, I don't know. What was the three again? Leanne. Leanne. Jake. Leanne is so strong. Jake. His story was really nice as well. It was, yeah. You've got to kill Leanne. She's so strong. She's too strong, isn't she?

She's so strong. She's such a beast. And I'd like, she's getting a little bit of heat online as well, which like, you've just got like, if she's listening, just ignore it.

Yeah. She's unbelievable. She's amazing. She is very strong. I think it's complimentary. I think, you know, whether it's good or bad, I think it's complimentary

and all of it, it kind of seems in the spirit of the game. A lot of people are saying, oh, they're making it too personal and it's personal attacks and blah, blah but it's like well you are all humans and you are all voting for people kind of based on their personality yes it's how you read them what you think that they've done how you got the feeling that you get from them it's about a gut feeling

and the company you're keeping and the time you're spending with them i would imagine i can't imagine being in that house it must be so it's so easy in it to sit and watch it and go, you're doing wrong, you're doing wrong. Yeah, it is. Did you instinctively feel, could you get a sense of, you know, the people there and everything? Oh, yeah, yeah. But I love people.

I love humans. I love reading people. So kind of like you do sit at the table. I mean, this is the great thing. Like if you do love that type of stuff and you're also put in like a naughty position, then you do like when type of stuff and you're also put in, like, a naughty position. Yeah. Then you do, like, when I came out of the dungeon and everyone online,

oh, he's going this episode, it's so obvious. And I didn't get one vote. And the biggest thing that happened is Zach, you come out the dungeon and then you sit at the table and Zach goes, oh, I think it's Paul. And I just go, I've had, like, a hard day. Can you go to someone else, please? And everyone just went, whoop.

And no one's supposed to be at the table. I'm sat there like this. Yeah. Why would anyone? That's a big thing from this season. Why would anyone do this to me? Why me? Everyone's got main character syndrome, haven't they?

They have, haven't they? They have. Jo. Yes. Not so average Jo. Yeah, I think it's funny, isn't it, how none of these people have done anything

particularly special but a lot of them go you are definitely a faithful yes and it's like how do you know that I know and this is the same

with Harry a lot of people Harry didn't get one vote during the entirety of the show oh my god except from Andrew who was also a traitor

so he kind of backstabbed yes but none of the faithfuls knew no and it's weird isn't it how people in your brain can just sit there as kind of like

I think Joe would have been a great recruit Joe could have been a good recruit yeah because I think people could be swayed on Joe I don't think people

could be swayed on Leanne because she so passionately defended herself yes yeah but then you say that people are calling her selfish for getting her own head

and is she doing that on I know it's just of course you're going to get yeah there's nothing better than them games of kind of like well why would they go for a shield is it a double the amount of time we need to do a thing another start of like how many times double bluff has been used yes yeah yeah yeah because it's kind of like people look for the more complicated bit of evidence rather than something that's like... Really simple, yeah. Something that is just simple. Well, like looking at our one, if someone said, okay, well, who's not really talking and whose name's not being brought up?

You'd probably go, oh, Harry, Molly, you know, something like that. At least you're kind of looking in the right direction type of thing. Yeah. But no, instead they go for whose big personalities... That's what I always find so weird. Because, you know, when they do do the big personalities or the person who's been personalities that's what I always find so weird because you know when they do do the big personalities

or the person who's been this or that I would just go who is the person that we're not talking about at all

let's get their name up yeah because they are either the best faithful or the best traitor however I said this the other day

on Twitter refuse to call it X yeah me too. Yeah, yeah. The weakest faithfuls are the ones that make the final. Yes. Why, why? Well, because the traitors, if they feel like they're in control, they need weak faithfuls to win against. So if you think your favourite faithful is getting to the final, that's probably because...

They're going to lose. They're going to lose. Oh my God. So like jazz was obviously everyone's favorite faithful in our season but and he he 50 he was 50 of the way there he knew our names yeah didn't have the group so if you've not got buy-in from the group bring him to the final oh come to the final because that that was the plan i thought when i went that andrew was gonna go me and har Harry would be in the final with Molly, Jazz, Evie,

someone like that. Yeah. So, yeah, I think your favourite, Alexander might lose basically if he gets to the final. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it depends what that final is. And then right at the end, I had to Google what this meant, but there's a seer.

Oh, what's that? There was a book at the end, like a little snippet, a seer, and apparently in Werewolf, which is a very similar game to Traitors, I think there's a seer that can see who the traitors are. I saw this. And I think they're going to do something like that. Yes, because she said at the end,

one of you is going to have a power. Oh, my God. Which is going to change the whole game. It was on the clip. Yeah, and then it showed the book and it was seer. Oh, my God. What are they going to do? What are they going to do?

Someone's going to know everything. Someone's going to know. But what how are they going yeah how does that play out what do they do how are they going to be allowed it's good they need to chuck something in i'm excited oh my god yeah so i think it's so funny the way the seasons pan out and because the producers don't produce it like they well you can't can you you gotta let them in and it just goes so if it's a massive ending or a massive beginning or like wherever the stories fall it's just where they fall I'm afraid yes so I reckon

the end of this season is going to be explosive the end of season two was obviously incredible I had to keep pausing it because I was and I had to keep saying to the family

I can't cope with this this is too much she put the hate I mean she put the hate and then wiped it out oh I can't believe it like if that was wrote and it was a producer

they need to be going doing like the next Christopher Nolan film because that is just I can't believe it. Like, if that was wrote and it was a producer, they need to be going and doing like the next Christopher Nolan film. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that is just... You couldn't write it. Like, what were they like afterwards with each other?

I mean, are they friends now? I know you can't probably say anything about it. I think you all drifted away. It was so like, it was so, I mean, she was destroyed.

She was destroyed, yeah. I was destroyed watching. Yeah, she's on Dancing On Ice now. She's doing all right. True, that's fine. No, I think as soon as you come out of

she's got brand deals she's alright I think coming out of that show it's so interesting like you do I always say it's like a football match

so like you can be horrible on a football match to people I'm sure you two have been like that but then when you kind of when the final whistle blows you're all kind of made to

yeah no it's true and that did happen but then we've all kind of drifted away now because life goes on yeah but you do in all jobs you do yes

you do job theatre tours you know you're all the best friends you are yeah and then it is true it finishes and you all go back to being normal

you go back you get on with your own lives exactly right and you just carry on and me and Harry me and Harry stay close and we obviously do a lot of work together now

I think there's kind of like pods of people me and Jazz do a lot of work together now um i think there's kind of like like pods of people me and jazz do a lot of work together now we're doing this presenting thing so like what are you doing they're presenting on morning live like correspondence stuff oh that's great yeah yeah yeah so we get to do like the boxes and i've seen you on uncloaked as well yeah and the pod so like there's loads of stuff do we talk about winning mastermind i mean come on did you i didn't see it i I'm so sorry. What was your specialist subject?

Ricky Gervais' Afterlife. Amazing. Oh my God, that's incredible. Well, Dave and Joe on Chatterbix were in Afterlife. So I said Derek. Yeah. I actually said Peep Show, then The Thick of It, then Derek. And then they said we can't do any of them.

You've got to do Afterlife. Oh my God, that's just so incredible. I know. Well done you. I need to watch that. Iay oh my god that's just so incredible I know well done you I need to watch that I need to watch it to see how many questions I know

well that's what a load of people because Ricky then tweeted the thing saying this is Paul he's from the traitors

shut up oh my god that's so cool my icon do you know what I mean that is it yeah is that a big

high five yeah massive come on Jo you can get involved so yeah that was like I mean everything that's happening so far is like pinch me

and like you don't fully expect things to stay around but it's lovely it's brilliant it really is and it's well deserved

it is well deserved you were so so good you were just incredible you were so good can we do this podcast for eight more hours I still remember the moment when you were sitting

around the table and you had your head in your hands and you just sort of went and you just looked up like that just incredible you were annoying actually when I look back did you plan how you were going to say that you were sitting around the table and you had your head in your hands and you just sort of went and you just looked up like that. Just incredible. You were annoying, actually, when I look back.

Did you plan how you were going to say that you were a traitor and your bar went? Did you plan? And do you know what? Kate's dad said to me, have an exit speech ready. Write something. And I was like, no, I'm just going to do whatever comes into my brain at that point. Whether I'm a faithful or a traitor, this is how I'm going to go.

And I got all. But I did get a bit emotional. I kind of like, you know, I love you all, this has been great. And then I was like, you know,

you kind of feel like a little bit of a coming, because I know my time's done. So as soon as I said I'm a traitor, I'm not joking. Well, I mean, you've seen it, but the room just erupts.

And Claudia broke character. Like, you see her face going, oh my God, this is great TV. She's like, I'm going to be booked for third season. Bit of cash. So then I just felt like, that's my final moment. She's like, I'm going to be booked for the third season. Bit of cash.

So then I just felt like that's my final moment. It's a final bow. It's my exit and then off I go. So I'm so glad that I did it. Incredible. Straight you did it. It's great. And then David Williams did it in the comic.

And then got stuck and he couldn't get up. So like, oh my God. It's great. Just incredible. It's amazing, isn't it? What do you think makes a good traitor? Because Mina, at the moment, I was watching her and she's gone under the radar for so long, but now they're starting to pick her up.

But she's had quite low status, hasn't she? Yeah, I think there's a couple of different ways to play it. I think you can be a Mina and you can hide, but you've got to make sure that the strategy is right. And I think that's what Harry did. So he stayed quiet for a lot of the first chunk of the season. Then he did that shield thing where he kind of like

which is genius and then he just carried on and recruited the right people he brought Ross in and then killed Ross so yeah I think stay quiet

I also love the idea of being a character I mean I went in being like the villainous character Charlotte's gone in somehow being the best faithful in the world

and then got recruited to be a traitor so like to be honest I think you can cut it 10 or 15 different ways. The only thing you've got to do is commit and really think about it. What did you think of Armani? Well, it wasn't great, was it?

No, it was a lot, wasn't it? It was a lot. But like, my whole thing is, the worse of a traitor you are, it probably means the better of a person that you are. Yes, yes. Do you know what I mean? If you're very kind of like, I don't know, you better of a person that you are yes do you know what i mean like you're very kind of like i don't know you let everything out you're i don't know

you're very kind and very nice and all that type of stuff so she was a terrible traitor but probably a lovely person yeah because i was a great traitor what is your prediction who's gonna win yeah so i well i really wanted traitors to win um but with the Sia thing and then seeing Mina and Charlotte basically one of them has to win if it's a traitor because both of them

won't go and win now because there's no trust yes I think faithfuls are going to win my brain keeps going can you imagine if the traitors

all go because remember the rule change now you don't say whether you're a traitor or a faithful or not so the final could be like five faithfuls or four faithful or not so the final could be like

five faithfuls or four faithfuls and they'll still keep voting them out and they keep voting and the traitors have gone so like

I kind of hope for something like that because it's something we've never seen we've seen Wilf get close and then the faithfuls win we've seen Harry

go through and you know and win now it'd be great to just see faithfuls in like pure meltdown voting out faithfuls not like pure meltdown yeah not trusting each other i still think only like two people are going to win i'd like alexander

to win because i think he's a very genuine nice i think he's playing the game properly he's you know he isn't actually getting personal he did a little giggle at the round table which i absolutely love because i've got yeah yeah and i've been quite fed up of them all going well i wouldn't have done this or, well, you know, you said that you felt quite relaxed about something. I didn't feel relaxed

and I want to go, Jesus Christ, we can all play our own separate game. We can all have to feel the same thing. It doesn't mean I'm a traitor just that I don't feel

what you feel. The more genuine that you are to that table, the more people will call you out for being a traitor in their life. Yes. But then when Lisa came out as the best coming out in the world as a priest.

Yes. Everyone was like, swear to God, swear to God, Lisa, I swear to him. It is so true. I think it's just happened in the American one.

I'm not sure. I'm sure I've seen on Twitter that someone said there was a traitor and everyone was like, Oh, you swore to God that you wasn't a traitor. And he went, I don't believe in God. I think that's a thing anyway, but that's a great exit line isn't it she could have said she was a priest and been lying you can do what you want you can

that's the other thing that only anna said well why would we all just believe that straight away yeah why would we leave that show me question it at least once yeah but maybe she was religious and thought god would just smite her. Yeah, maybe. Oh, isn't it fun though? What a brilliant programme. It's the best programme in the world. We have got a couple of voice notes for you, Paul.

My God, we have. We've got some voice notes. Oh my God, prep. This is fantastic. Is it James Corden? There we go. As a huge Traitors fan, it's been amazing to have it back for another season. But I'm wondering if Paul could have recruited anyone from this season to be a Traitor with, who would it be?

Okay, great question. So I'm a bit of a backstabber. So I wouldn't have recruited anybody unless I was going to throw them under a bus. So sadly, I would have chose Alexander at that point. I think really earlier in the show, I probably would have brought in maybe Leanne. I think she is just so strong. But yeah, I would say Leanne from the start and Alexander at that point.

Yeah, very good. Yeah. I think if Leanne got recruited now, got asked to be recruited, she'd say no. I think she would, unless she was going to be murdered straight away yes recruit or die yes

and remember she's not going to go and although in season three something that they brought in which is genius is a lot of the self-sacrifice yes

we didn't have any of that stuff you know like do you want to get off the train I mean I would never have got off the train I mean you never would have got off the train I would have been first off the train are you serious yeah I would never have got off the train. I mean, you never would have got off the train.

I would have been first off the train. Are you serious? Yeah, I would have been first. After all that hard work? Immediately off. Of the interviews and meetings? Yeah, I would have just got off. Wow, would you have? Yeah.

I believe you, actually. I think you would have done. Yeah, I would have just got off. I would have gone, fuck this. I'm getting off. I can't listen to you all. I think it's clever. Get on with it.

I think it's clever to get off. Because the rules are you either have to be banished or murdered. So I think then people were probably thinking oh we're going to come back but it's how you come back and obviously it's only two out of the three

so I mean really upset that Fosia left because I love her I liked her she was absolutely brilliant and because she got off first she had the utmost

respect in the cages and everyone just said yeah she got off first she's good yes and then she sacrificed herself again with the card case.

Oh, no. I'll give her the card. That was so nice. She's an incredible woman. Because, I mean, she could have gone through. I mean, Anna took the card and then it was her go

and she could have... What would you have done? Would you have taken the card back? Would you not? No, I was fuzzy all the way. I would have been like fuzzy all the way. Would you have taken the card back? Yeah, I would have eaten it.

I think I'd have taken the card back. I would have not given that. I mean, Leon did that when they were like, can I have that card? And he was like, are you sure? Yeah. Are you sure? Yeah. card back yeah i would have eaten it i think i'd have taken the card back i would have i mean leon did that when they were like can i have that card he was like you sure yeah you sure yeah it's not it's definitely not the same yeah no i would have like fosia is and again that's the beauty of the game and that you know it's not produced like she was probably the best character one of the best characters you could have got in that show yes although what i will say as well like the trades is a very interesting show

because normally TV shows, they get really big, like, reality, really big personalities. And this is probably the only show where the big personalities leave and the people that don't normally have a voice do have a voice on a massive platform. Yes.

So I guess there is kind of that element of kind of like, you would never see some of these people on telly. No, you wouldn't. And they're on telly. Yeah, no, it's great. Seven million great million people yeah so i guess there probably is that little bit um but then it still annoyed me when harry backstabbed me because that's just come into my brain of course you need to get over yourself right never voice note please i'm really

curious to know how in such a short space of time people on traitors emotions can get so heightened um and it seems universal with pretty much all of the contestants i want to know do you think a lot of contestants are putting that on or do you think people really are getting swept up into the moment on that show um again another great question uh you got good voice notes um so i would say no one in this show is doing fake crying and i was apart from linda oh sorry sorry so linda linda had her go at it um and obviously i did a lot of fake crying and i think that's maybe stimulated some of season three people to go it's almost got to the point now is if i don't cry and don't show emotion am i a traitor yeah because everyone else is crying so then you look like the odd one out type of thing so um everyone is emotional everyone's in like a big heightened state i don't know i think it's all genuine i think it's kind of like peer pressure in like if you've cried i'll cry yeah

and when you're all in there together you can get whipped up into a frenzy you know i think it's quite easy for it all to start you know getting big yeah but then you've also got a thing like you're spending like all day every single day with these people so like if you weighed up like how much time you actually spend with your best friend yeah yeah yeah if it's like two three hours a week you're doing that in a day. No, I know, and it's intense. It is intense. It's so intense.

Because it was like that when I did Big Brother. It's intense. Oh, my God, yes. You did Big Brother? Yeah. I'm thinking of doing Big Brother this year. Oh, you should do it. Do you think I should?

Yes! Oh, my God, I would love it. Oh, you've got to go in there. You'll have a brilliant time. Yeah, I think I'd have a good time. You'd have a great time. You'd have a brilliant time. I think I has a bit of a stigma to it, doesn't it? But then for some reason... You would have a great time. I think I'd have a good time you'd have a great time you'd have a brilliant time I think it has a bit of a stigma to it

doesn't it but then for some reason you'd have a great time you'd mix it up yes you'd cook you'd clean yeah

you'd be in the middle you'd probably start a few arguments I'd start every argument call a couple of fires it wasn't me it was Jo over there get yourself in there do you know what I mean

I think you should definitely well we'll see brilliant massive fee as well isn't it that's alright mortgage and all that correct me listen it's what we're here for it's what we're here for isn't it that's alright mortgage and all that correct me listen

it's what we're here for it's what we're here for isn't it realistic well I'm here for the compliments actually but Paul thank you so so much for coming in

I've loved it you two are amazing oh my god it's been incredible chatting to you we've all like bonded haven't we yes it's lovely

alright bonded, haven't we? Yes! It's lovely. Alright. Wasn't that fantastic having Paul in? Oh my God, that was incredible. He's amazing. What a treat. I could just talk and talk and talk to him.

I just want to ask him more. Send us your messages and voice notes and let us know what you thought of having Paul Gorton in the studio. We feel very blessed.

Yeah, because we certainly enjoyed it. Thank you so much for all your voice notes. Please, please do keep sending us voice notes on WhatsApp about the telly or anything else we've chatted about today. Our next call-out is for voice notes about your favourite TV chefs and cooking moments. It's like my dream.

Oh, God, I can say three now. Mary Berry, Nigella and Jamie. All at Christmas time and I want to see what their houses look like. But we're going to really go into it, right? So please please let us know about your favourite cooking shows, favourite moments anything like that. Nigella made a

cocktail on a barge in Amsterdam once and I thought, God, I just want to be there. Jo's very excited about this episode, everybody. I like Nigel Slater. Yeah. In North London, just like really bougie, picking his herbs from the patio, the garden. Anyway, we'll get right into it.

But the more voice notes we get from you and the more messages about it, it really, really helps us. 030306784704. Thank you so much. What a brilliant, brilliant episode. That was amazing I'm going to have to

just calm down now I just can't wait now to finish the series and see what happens yeah it's going to get tense isn't it it's going to

I think it's going to just roar we're roaring towards the end now aren't we oh it's brilliant oh my god it's me Paul

have a lovely week everyone see ya bye Have a lovely week, everyone. See you. Bye. Off the Telly is hosted by Natalie Cassidy and Joanna Page. The producer is Georgia Keating. The commissioning editor is Rhian Roberts and it's a BBC Studios audio production for BBC Sounds. sounds. for the official Visualized Companion podcast. And remember, I'll be listening. Okay?

No, seriously, I love it. What a faithful. We'll unpack betrayals and spill scandalous secrets with celeb guests, traitors, legends, and murdered and banished players. The Traitors Uncloaked. Watch on iPlayer. Listen for more on BBC Sounds.