Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Amber Rae | She Met Her Soulmate While Still Married — The Wake-Up Call You Need!

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

#865. What if the life you built—your marriage, your identity, your comfort zone—no longer aligned with who you really are?Bestselling author and speaker Amber Rae joins Kaitlyn to talk about her new book Loveable and the moment everything changed: meeting her soulmate while still married. She opens up about navigating a sexless relationship, struggling with Adderall addiction and eating disorders, and learning how to sit with her emotions instead of silencing them.They dive deep into the power of truth, vulnerability, and the scary but beautiful process of coming home to yourself.If you’ve ever stayed in something because it felt comfortable—or silenced your truth to avoid disappointing others—this episode is for YOU.Listen now and ask yourself: What truth are you afraid to admit… and why?If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE!Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these deals!Boll & Branch: Get 15% off plus free shipping on your first set of sheets at BollAndBranch.com/vine15.Better Help: Off The Vine listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com/VINE.Wayfair: Head to Wayfair right now to shop all things home.That’s WAYFAIR.com. Wayfair. Every style. Every home.Lady World: Come Join me for a fun weekend! Get your tickets now at LadyWorld.COEPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: (8:09) – Amber shares the pivotal moment she met her soulmate while still married and how it set off a complete unraveling of the life she had built.(17:50) – A powerful conversation about people-pleasing, self-abandonment, and what happens when you realize you’ve been living for others.(26:40) – Amber opens up about life after a sexless marriage, reconnecting with desire, and healing intimacy wounds in a new relationship.(37:30) – A raw look into Amber’s experience with Adderall addiction, eating disorders, and the deeper issues driving them.(48:57) – Amber shares a powerful question to help you face the truth you might be avoiding.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Okay, let's talk about the original enemies to lovers story. Before all of our reality TV couples, before the rom-coms, we binge, there was Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy in pride and prejudice. And Audible has just dropped a brand new original that will have you completely hooked, I am. It's not just any audiobook. This is a full cast performance. So Marisa Abella, you might know her from industry, brings Elizabeth Bennett to life.

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with Caitlin Bristow. Hey, Vino's, real quick, if you are listening right now, which obviously you are, you wouldn't be hearing this, can you hit the subscribe or follow button on whatever platform you're on? Please, that one simple thing, help more than you even realize it allows me to keep growing on this podcast and making these episodes the best they can possibly be obviously for you. That's the only favorite I'm going to ever ask, okay? It truly means the world to me. Thank you. Now let's get into it. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow, and today's guest is someone whose story will probably stay with you long after this episode. Amber Ray is a best-selling

author. She's a artist, a speaker, an emotional wellness advocate who spent years helping people move through fear, connect with their truth, and express themselves fully, which obviously I align with. But in her latest book, Loveable, Amber turns the mirror on herself. So Lovable is both a love story and a self-healing journey. It's about leaving behind a sexless, lonely marriage, confronting general patterns, unpacking childhood trauma, and redefining what it means to live and love authentically. Amber opens up about the moment that she met someone new while still being married and the shame and truth that she had to face because she had met her soulmate while being in this marriage, how healing from addiction and emotional pain led her to her most honest and

powerful self. So let's dive in. Thank you so much for being here. I love getting connected through Vienna with anyone because I always know if Vienna connects me to somebody, they're a special human. So I was like, yes, absolutely. And I think listeners always love this kind of conversation. And I always joke the amount of times i've talked about inner child and um this hoffman experience that i went through it's so funny because i did a post i did a post for my off the vine listeners saying like tell me you listen to off the vine without telling me and somebody said we get it you went to hoffman because i do talk about this so much but i think it is so you know like deeply impactful and and important and powerful and you obviously uh we'll get into all the things about your your book and

how much you've done in your career. But for anyone listening who doesn't know you yet, how would you describe yourself who you are and what you do? I am. That's such a funny question right now, as I was telling you, I'm seven months postpartum. Right. So I'm like, I'm a mama. Yeah. But I'm a mama who is an author, who's a speaker, who's a creator, and who has this truth and this voice that I must share with the world. Yes. And it's been such an interesting process to like try and balance those two things. I can't imagine. And like I turned in my book nine months pregnant. Wow. I got my edits back for my publisher six weeks postpartum. I had two weeks to turn them in. So it's been like the ultimate, I've been like kind of like, who am I now?

It's, I'm kind of every day, who am I? This new identity is forming in real time as this like mama creator. So it's not a short answer these days. No, that's fine. I like when it's a long answer. I'm like, you know, you have so much to you and such a fascinating story and a powerful message. I just, I have so many questions. I feel like I could turn, you know, this into a four-hour podcast. But you said, you know, you're a mom. You're an author, speaker, storyteller. First of all, when being postpartum, are you in that six weeks? Are you in complete, like, baby bliss? Or are you in, like, what is my life? Because you were telling me before we started recording about how you got pushed out by fires and, like, all of that chaos. Yeah. I mean, I was, it was a combination of baby bliss and

who am I? Because, you know, the first six weeks, it's this kind of, whoa, what just happened. Yeah. You're not sleeping. You know, there's, it's constant feeding. It's just kind of this whole new, you know, I'm almost 40 years old. I've spent the last 20 years of my life completely autonomous. As a, you know, I'm self, I've always worked for myself for most of my adult life. Right. So to suddenly be thrust into I am responsible for this being and I have to take care of them and I can't just do whatever I want, whenever I want was a big shift while also having to have deadlines and doing what you know you need to do totally though I will say having the book was the greatest gift that I didn't know I needed because it was writing and the book process is how I feel so connected to myself and so you know

I was at six he's six weeks old I would nurse him and he had reflex so I had put him up on my shoulder for 20 minutes and in those 20 minutes I am editing an essay on my phone wow but I felt so energized and so on fire doing the thing that I love that I felt like I had so much more to give to my son. And I have a lot of friends who had babies and didn't have necessarily deadlines from a publisher. But they became, they were so in the baby world that they lost touch with themselves. And it took them longer to get back in touch. So I felt like I was like fully me in my best creative self-informed alongside those early days with them. And it was crazy. Like at one point, you know, the whole book is spread out and I'm editing and he's in like a little like

bassinet sitting there, like hanging out, playing with himself. And I just like have to get it done. So it's like, you know, you do crazy things. But I wouldn't trade it because it allowed me to just feel still myself. I mean, they say mums can just do it all. Somehow you just figure it out. And that sounds like exactly what you did. It sounds like you kind of like your whole life have been somebody that's, I'm just going to figure it out. And I'm going to go with, I mean, we'll get into all of that was that always your path of being a writer and speaker and storyteller? Has that always kind of been who you are? I'd say yes, but it's not the path that I took initially. I, you know, I actually went into tech. I was like, I was an interesting kid where I grew up next door to computer

Bob. And so I was like building computers at four years old. Oh my gosh. Computer Bob was my babysitter's dad. And so I would like love technology. My mom was an entrepreneur. So she was teaching me how to make money at a young age. So I was just like very, started an online magazine when I was 11, like going in AOL chat rooms to recruit subscribers, got Delius to sponsor me. It was like, I love that. I was ahead of my time. And then, but then very much went into the tech path and worked with Apple and then worked in the startup space. But I moved to Silicon Valley and I was in the startup world and kind of, I was heartbroken by what I thought technology would be. And then the reality of that, that world. Yeah. And so that led me to quit my job, sell all of my belongings and

move from San Francisco to New York in 48 hours back in like 2010 before people were like following their passion. Yeah. Yeah. And I wrote a piece about it which went viral. And then that's what had me realize, wait, if I honestly share kind of the messy parts of my journey, if I share my experience in what I'm going through, it's actually a mirror for other people to see themselves more clearly. And that was a big epiphany of like, oh, this thing I love to do, which is right and kind of self-reflect and right from the inside out is actually really helpful for other people. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So I didn't, you know, I was like, why would anyone care about this? Like essentially, it felt like a journal entry. Right. Why would anyone care? But when so many people were like, oh, this is inspiring me to, you know, question my own work, question why I'm doing what I'm doing what do I really feel most, you know, alive doing? So it sparked this whole conversation. a time too where you followed a blueprint of what you're supposed to do instead of, you know,

what your passions and dreams were. Exactly. And then so what made you interested in like human emotion and inner child work and all that? Like what happened there? I was always curious about why we do the things we do, what motivates us, what gets in our way. And, you know, I think for me it started initially as more motivational. Like my first book was called Choose Wonder Over Worry. And here I was. Yeah, I like left this path and I'm choosing wonder and I'm, you know, carving these new pathways that I didn't think were possible. Yeah. And I, you know, I think the pivotal moment for me was four years ago while married, I met the man I knew I was supposed to be with. So you're married. And he was not my husband. Yeah. So you're married to somebody. Yeah. You met a man. Yeah. And you went, uh-oh,

that's my husband. Uh-oh. That's who I'm supposed to be. Uh-oh. That's immediately? Immediately. Like literally, I mean, I forever, it is a movie in my mind. I can replay it over and over again because time slowed so intensely. I was, so just a little bit of background, I was in a relationship for nine years. He was a good guy. He was not my guy. I was trying desperately to give in to myself that he was my person. You mentioned earlier, I'm the type that can figure it out.

I was like, I can figure this out. We're going to go to therapy. I can figure this out. What if we're business partners? I can figure this out. What if we leave New York in the pandemic? and moved to Mexico and build a regenerative land project by the sea and making this sacred space for creators.

And you're not making that up. You did that. I did that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'm like, I'm going to create this vision in this fantastical world and make my husband, my partner in doing this.

Yeah. Because then I will finally get the closeness that I'm after. Wow. Which, you know, and so I was trying so hard to make the relationship work. And meanwhile, we did not have sex. Okay. Mm-hmm. And I'm readable.

But I was like, oh, but we have emotional, like, I feel emotionally safe or I thought I did. Yep. And but so, like, there's so much here for me to be grateful for. Like, can't we, like, maybe we can figure the intimacy thing out. I knew from the beginning we did not have that sort of chemistry, right from the beginning. From the first time we had sex, that's like, ooh, okay. Really? Kind of relationship.

But I was like, but so much is good that we can, like, maybe we'll go to, like, intimacy workshops. Yeah. Like, we'll talk to Esther Perel, you know. Yeah, yeah. obsessed, yeah. Oh, my God, yes. You really did try and figure it out. So, you know, it was, it was trying.

So in the midst of all that, I'm now in Toto Santos in Mexico building this land project and in walks this man. And like, like, time slowed and I didn't understand why. And I looked into it in its eyes. And I was like, shit. Oh, my God. This is what it's supposed to feel like he's my person. And he felt the same way back. Well, I didn't know this initially.

Because, you know, I felt that and I was like, that's insane. Well, what did it bring up for you? Like, desire almost? You know, it was like, yes, he's an attractive man and I like felt. But it was like, it was more of like a recognition at first sight. Like, I know you. My soul knows you as crazy as that might sound. Like there was like this deep like it just knowing.

Like awakened something in your soul that you're like, this is what it should feel like. Exactly. And it was like I had been asleep and I was suddenly awake. especially when you've been in a lonely, sexless marriage where you're just like convincing yourself for years and years that this is what's supposed to be right. Yeah. And then suddenly it's like, oh, no, it feels like this when it's right. But I initially was like, that's crazy maybe in another life. Like I was still very much in the, I'm going to convince myself, I'm going to figure this out. But I also could not ignore the feeling. And the, and I mean, we looked and I tilted my

head and he tilted his head and then our eyes locked as I like turned my body around and then guided them into because they were he just having to tag along with two friends who were potential investors in the project wow and then they were supposed to be there for an hour and six hours later him and I like were in this we were just like like magnet just dropping in and realizing like it was just we were in our own world and did your husband notice you know it's funny later so that night when they left, I turned to him and I said, I just met a soulmate. And you said that to your husband? I mean, I wasn't thinking at the time and I'm going to like blow up my life and leave

this marriage and go be with them. Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. And I was like, soulmates, you know, they're maybe friends. Right. But I was just like so, I think, in awe that I like so honestly and earnestly said to him, like, I just met a soulmate. And he said to me, I know I saw that was beautiful to witness, which like, we kind of like stopped there.

And I wasn't like, what do you mean? I was just like, that's interesting. that he, you know, has that sort of like. So was he feeling the same way your husband in that, like at that time, was he feeling lonely? Was he feeling like obviously the lack of sexual intimacy? Was he feeling it? Or was he very much in love with you and did not want it to end? You know, I don't, it's hard looking at what the relationship was.

Again, it was like, we like called herself Mr. and Mrs. Wonder because of my first book. And like we had this like, you know, we're traveling all over like on the surface. It looked like. And, you know, he's a part of my Instagram. It looked really good. Yeah, yeah. So I think we were both very much in the story of our love and not in the reality of our love. I mean, I can't imagine you're not really having sex with your partner.

Right. How satisfied can you be? Right, right. Like, if I'm not, if I'm feeling emotionally, I imagine he's at some feeling that too. So a girlfriend of mine in the midst of it said to me, liberation is a two-ray street. And I, you know, when I look back on how he must have been feeling, I can't imagine that like, you know, I think connection is a two-way street too. Right. I imagine he was feeling connected.

there as well. Right. And like how did you decide to leave and were you worried about judgment? Well, first I decided that I was going to make John my design partner. John's the John is sorry, John is the, so the guy I meet is John. Yes. Okay. First I decide I'm not going to leave my marriage. Okay. Because that's crazy. Right. Maybe in another life. Right. Like, this is probably, I'm feeling this connection with this sexy man that I've just met who's, like, deep and special and all the things. He can't quite possibly feel the same way. Right. So I'm going to make him my design partner in this project.

He's an artist. So we start bringing him into the project. Yeah. And so it's me, my husband, my ex-husband now, the three of us exploring how we can build this project together. I, like, really made myself a really special scenario. Yeah, you should. And, you know, we began collaborating for a couple of weeks. And honestly, the chemistry between the three of us was incredible.

Like, we would go out in the world and people wanted to, like, jump on board the project. Like, money and potential investors were lining up. Like, things that dots were connecting in a really special way. But then there was a moment of, like, becoming honest, which is, as John and I began, you know, to get deeper into the process, one day I said to him, I was like, I have to be honest. like I don't like leaving things unsaid. And like we've had such like transparency in this relationship and what we're building here. I, you know, I feel like there's something here between us. Am I the only one who's like feeling that way? And he was like, you know, I'd be lying if I said that I'm not feeling that too. And, you know, the first time I met you, I had this

moment of, wow, I just met the person. I just met my soulmate. I just met the person I'm supposed to be with. But she's married. So like. Like, I then, he then like immediately pushed the possibility out. Because from his point of view, it seemed that I was in a happy marriage because we were so good at presenting that. Yes. I know because you talk about like smiling your way through the pain and being the good wife and you've, you nailed that role. Yeah, I nailed that role. Yeah.

And like I didn't want, you know, I was so, so Vienna always says like we become very convincing. Yes. And we have to be convincing. Yes. Because if we question the narrative or we question the story, it means that everything falls apart. And I don't think I was ready for everything to fall apart. Well, nine years of something. Yeah.

That's, you know, that comes with grief and all of the things of letting go and things falling apart. So I feel like there's so many people out there. You know, it's crazy. It's one of the main, when I do a Q&A on Instagram, so many people say I'm in a lonely marriage. I want to leave. Do I try and make this work? And I don't, you know, it's hard to answer these questions for people because I'm like,

I think if you're asking, like, you already know, the. answer. Yeah. So what if somebody's listening and they have like felt that maybe they haven't met their soulmate, maybe they have, maybe they had these feelings. But if they're in this lonely, long time relationship, so many people become complacent and think this is just the right thing to do to stay. Yeah. Would you just highly encourage them to get GTFO? I mean, I don't know each person's particular situation. That's what's hard about it. I mean, because I am getting, ever since I announced this book, I never expected how many people ever reach out feeling the exact same way that I did, whether they're, a lot of people have met someone, which is interesting. They're in those

exact crossroads, but also a lot of people are just like, I'm unsatisfied, I'm unfulfilled, I'm unhappy here, I'm lonely, what do I do? And I, the answer that I can say is you know. I know, like you know, and I feel you and I agree with you that if you're asking, if you're doubting, you know, I think there's a lot of information there. Your gut is literally attached to your heart, which is attached to your brain. And it's like, that's the same or the saying comes from like, trust your gut. You really do know. Yeah. You do know. Yeah. It's just so hard. Like, again, going back to the piece of, were you afraid of the judgment? Because how did you, how, like, walk us through what that look like then to actually have that conversation with your partner of nine

years and then get into this new relationship. And then how do you trust, like, I guess the difference between running from something and running towards the truth. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I was terrified of disappointing other people. That was the thing that kept me there. Yes, I feel it. I was so afraid of hurting my ex-husband. I was so afraid of hurting my ex-husband. I didn't even tell my best friends we weren't having sex. That's like how in the story I was. So I was so afraid of disappointing others that I realized I was okay with disappointing myself. And so once I realized like, wait, I can't self-abandoned, I can't self- betray anymore. This isn't about choosing one guy or the other. It's actually about choosing. me myself. Yes. And how, like, what is the true thing for me to do? And the truest thing for me to do is to, A, admit to my husband that I have feelings for this other person. But the truest thing for me to do, whether or not it works out with John, like my mom at one point asked me and she said, if it doesn't work out with John, would you go back to your ex? And I said, absolutely not. She said, and like, and she, you know, there was wisdom there because it's like,

I didn't know if he was the love of my life or the catalyst toward what was next. But I had to, you know, be okay and learn to tolerate the discomfort of other people being upset with me, of other people being disappointed. Of our people calling me, you know, all kinds of names. And they did? Oh, yeah. People called me a narcissistic sociopath. And I'm, what? People that, like. People that, you know, that one person that like was always that one that I, like, knew and you were my friend, but I don't really think you were my friend. Yeah. Yeah. Those are the ones. Yeah. You know. I was going to see for the, like, I could see people, like, on an online presence having an opinion, but people in our shared

community, this sort of thing, leaving your marriage because you meet someone else and loves in general brings up a lot for people. And why do, yeah. Because of their history, because of their childhood, because of what their mom and dad went through or what their inner child still feels about that breakup or the fact that mom stayed and maybe shouldn't, you know, there's so much emotional baggage around relationship and love and divorce and all of that, that people were just projecting that on to me. Which this whole world just feels like a world of projection.

Because, you know, like, you say that and I'm like, I feel like that's why you've built such a strong community online is because you're able to see that. And I think people, sometimes people like to be called out, but it's kind of like, again, the word awakening for some people to be like, I see myself in this or I can do it too. Or I'm afraid of other people's judgment. but then the judgment is always stemming from again like you said inner childhood wounds things that they never could wrap their heads around and and you have the capacity to bring awareness to it where a lot of people would just again project totally which again is I think building a community

around emotional wellness and self-expression is so important and so cool that you've done that how did you grow and evolve that over time was it just more people being aware and being like me too Yeah, you know, I think my process, I've always taken kind of a memoir approach. Yeah. I'm not a therapist. I'm a woman on a journey who's doing the work. Like I'm, you know, I'm going to therapy. I'm doing the EMDR. I'm studying attachment theory. I'm doing ideal parent figure work. I'm, you know, I'm like exploring these different modalities because ultimately I wanted to heal and I wanted to have be open and available to love in the fullest sense of the word. Yeah. And, you know, my process has always been to. whether I was like illustrating something for Instagram or writing a piece, it was from the inside out. So I'm going to share my journey, not from an expert necessarily, but from a person who's in it and doing the work. And I think that has a special level of resonance for people

because that is the place where they say, wow, I can see myself there and I feel that too. And so I think, you know, my entire community has been built off of. I feel that way too. Me being able to like put language to maybe complex ideas around like, you know, setting boundaries or part of my work is I name my inner parts. So I, before I even knew what parts work was, I did, you know, I'm just learning about parts. I'm doing somatic therapy right now and I'm learning about parts. Yeah, internal family systems. I, you know, when I was writing my first book, I realized all of these different parts were coming to the surface, my perfectionist who wanted to get everything right, my imposter who thought, who the hell are you to be writing a book, the anxiety part of me,

that was like, you're not going to write this in three months. that deadline's crazy. And so I began naming these different parts of me, anxious Annie, Grace the Perfectionist, posters, like his name's Doc, and he's a professor at Harvard. And like, by giving them names and faces and characters, I was able to then start dialoguing with them and be like, you know, hey, Doc, like, what, you know, what's going on here? Like, I'm trying to write this, but you're a voice in my head being like, you need to research more. And it's very annoying. And he's like, I'm sorry, I'm just trying to like protect you. you know and ultimately realizing they were trying to protect me and keep me safe and like save me from humiliation and all of that was like oh they're trying to be my friends um so anyway so all of these different processes and tools are things that I began to share as like here's what I'm learning here's what I'm doing here's what's working and it seemed to support others too I you say naming things like even just doing that is so helpful I call my brain Katrina like I have so I'm you know and I always say like isn't my brain

supposed to be on the same team as me. Like, why does it make me have so much doubt? Why is it always feeding me lies? Why isn't it supposed to be on my team? But it's really not. But at the end of the day, it's protecting you. Yeah. It's, it's reinforcing beliefs that you've had since you were a little. Like, it's, it makes sense when you break it down. All right. When it comes to sheets and bedding, I am pretty particular. Like, I want my bed to feel like an actual retreat, five star hotel at the end of my day. And the only place I get mine is from Bowlin Branch. I actually just got a new duvet set in the color mist. So pretty and there's something calming about the color and a medium fluff down comforter insert. It showed up last week and I have basically been in cozy heaven ever

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to write and is this all in the book? That's the one that took me three years right. That's the story of me. You know, it starts with I'm, I meet John. Yeah. And I'm married. And how long have you been with John now? Four years. Okay. So it starts there and is like this kind of fantastic, you know, part one in the book is this kind of fantastical love story. And then part two is where shit gets real. Because here I am on the other side of this sexless marriage, where I feel like I've done so much of the inner work. And now I'm in this new relationship. And he's, my soulmate, the love of my life, and I feel so much desire and I'm so excited by it, but I also have been in a sexless relationship, so I feel deeply disconnected from that part of myself. And yet he is very connected with that part of himself. So like where then the book goes is all of this old stuff comes to the surface, stories of unworthiness, what if I'm not good enough? What if I can't satisfy John? Will he still want to be with me? And I, you know, I lost my dad when I was a girl. And then I, you know, I come to realize in the writing of this book that my ex-stepfather

was actually abusive, which was like not, I was like, oh, it was, yeah, really, I kind of had the childhood where for a long time, I was like, my childhood was great. But then I was like, why can't I really remember that much? The more I began to unpack, and this book was really a vehicle and a guide for, and go to therapy and EMDR and connect back to these old memories. I realized that, like, the argument with John that I, like, in completely shutting down for and, like, conflict, I'm like abort mission, get me out of this relationship. I'm leaving because we've had one fight about soap. Yeah. Yeah. Like, whoa, we're like what a therapist always said to me, what's hysterical is historical. And so, okay, this is my reaction to this is hysterical. I'm like packing my bags

because of soap. And so like, where does this come from? And so, you know, the book then goes into a lot of the like looking at our inner children, looking at what we inherited about love, what we inherited about self, our stories of self-worth, who we learned we needed to be in order to be worthy and enough. And so it goes there. So as much as it's this like love story, it's ultimately a self-discovery and self-healing story. And me, you know, realizing that, you know, as cliche as this sounds, like love isn't out there. It's within me. Yeah. And, you know, but like it's one thing to say that, but it's another thing. to feel that. Yeah. Like know that at the deepest level. And my entire life, I was always chasing

love, looking for love externally, looking for approval externally, you know, trying to fill that void within that could never be filled. Right. And has John helped you heal those parts too? Because I know you have to heal yourself. Yeah. How is he supportive in that journey for you? Yeah. It's funny because Vienna said to me, because there was a part of me that was like, oh, but I should be able to do this myself. Yeah. Like I don't want to like need the guy to do the healing. And Vienna was like, we, you know, we're wounded in relationship. So we heal in relationship. Relationship is actually the place for our wounds to surface such that we can look at them when we're in the right container and when we're the right person who's open and willing to really like do that work with you. It's the

greatest healing of all. Absolutely. And so, you know, I remember our, after the soap, we had this big conflict and I like you know storm out and it's I'm again I'm packing my bags mentally and like voices were raised and I grew up in a household that was like you know pretty volatile that was like aggression there was passive aggressiveness there was lots of toxic communication and so I remember there was a moment where and no one apologized ever you know it's like I saw things I should not have seen that were never talked about and then there was never apologies and so I remember the first time John like grabbed my hand and was like sorry for raising my voice and I was like Like, my little girl was like, oh, my God, I've waited at this point, like 36 years to hear the words.

I'm sorry for raising my voice. And so it was incredible to see how healing that love can be. Wow. When someone's willing to go there with you. Well, and I love that because I tend to think I'm going to be hyper-independent. I'm going to have those walls up because I don't obviously want to get hurt. And I have been through hurt and I've been through sadness. I've been through, you know, all the things where I'm just going to not go there.

Yeah. Where it should be the opposite with, you know, the right person, again, with the right person who is able to also be on a journey with you where they also want to heal themselves. And, you know, you're not too just avoiding people that are just like, no, we can do this, where you actually want to dig deep with that other person, see what, you know, they're bringing out in you, what you're bringing out in them, where things can be healed. through both sides. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's cool when you can have that with somebody. Yeah, absolutely. And not run away from it. And not run away from it. I mean, which is the key. Yeah.

But you, again, like, of course, part of you, there's probably going to always be that little part of you that wants to run. Yeah. Or go, oh, God, I'm not good enough. Or this isn't right. Or like, here we go again, kind of feeling. Yeah. I think that's my biggest fear. Like, how do you not be afraid that that's going to happen again? Because to me, dating again is so scary. I go, well, what if this happens again? And what if I don't know this person as much as I think I do? And how do you decipher like this is the honeymoon phase and the lust rather than trusting this, this is my soulmate? Yeah, for me, you know, trust was something that I learned through time because similarly, I kept waiting for the shoe to drop. Yeah. It was like my history is that as soon as things get good, something bad happens.

As soon as things get comfortable, something bad happens. And so I, like, early in the relationship was kind of always on alert, like waiting for something bad to happen, waiting for something to blow up, waiting for the shoe to drop. And so trust came through, like, one, reassuring my little girl, like doing my side of things, which is, it's okay, you're safe here, I'm safe. We're not, you know, you're not nine years old watching your drunk stepdad, like, try to get in a car and put you in there with him. Like, and you thought he was this, like, great guy that your mom. mom was marrying like and you're like oh thank god finally like a dad figure yeah and then it turns out he's a shit show like where that's not right now yeah that's what you're responding that's where you're responding from that's where this fear is coming from and just like recognizing where that's

coming from but like that's not the reality today so it's like I have to you know kind of go back and remind myself of that and then it's you know I hear you on the hyper independence thing and I find and I was so similar in that way too and what John even occurs he's like when you're so independent, you're not vulnerable. Okay, I kind of want to go back and hear that again. What? Say that again. When you're so independent, you're not vulnerable.

I hate that because I do pride myself on being vulnerable, but then I'm like, I think sometimes I choose when to be vulnerable. Curated vulnerability. Curated vulnerability. Hi, it's me. I hate that, though, because that's not who I want to be. Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah.

I want to be, I want to show up vulnerable. That's like my goal in life is to allow myself. to be more vulnerable because people will stop me on the streets to be like, oh, thank you for being so vulnerable. And then I think I'm like, oh, am I a fraud? Because I do, I go into a hyper-independent mode where I'm, I don't allow myself. And I, my therapist called me out. She was like, you are so terrified of being vulnerable. And I'm like, no, I'm on. Yeah. And she, you know, she's a therapist. And she goes, you actually are. You're doing it right now. I'll move so quickly out of getting vulnerable.

Yeah. Because it's scary. Yeah. Yet I pride myself on being vulnerable. I built a whole brand of vulnerability. I was like not being honest about the most honest things in my life. Yes. So it's like we, we, and I think it's a process.

Like we're clearly in the work of starting to share vulnerable stories for a reason because we want that. Yeah. We want the intimacy that comes from vulnerability. Yeah. But like it's also very scary. Yeah. You talk about writing being such a powerful tool for you, which. obviously we'll come through in this book because even the other day I was so upset about something

so frustrated by certain people and all the bad and I just was sobbing and sobbing and my sweet assistant was like write it down right it down and and I did and immediately like just putting it on paper sent it kind of out of my body and somewhere else and and I do think you know it just requires like a next level being vulnerable and honest yeah to put it on paper which seems a lot easy than saying it out loud, too. Yes. Is that how you felt writing the book? Yeah, there's something permanent about putting it pen to paper.

Uh-huh. But to me, you know, I've been journaling my whole life. Putting pen to paper is the greatest pathway to clarity, healing, transformation, self-understanding. It's, to me, it is everything. Okay, as you guys know, I spent some time redoing my backyard, and now I'm getting very inspired to refresh my family room next. My family room, just me and the dogs. plus i've got this room upstairs that's been begging for some wall art and new decor i was like wait why have i not checked wayfar they have everything you could need and so much variety to fit whatever

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addiction and eating disorders and emotional abuse and yet here you are like a grounded self-aware person doing all the work. So tell me about your relationship with Adderall. Like what did it represent for you? Yeah, Adderall was so like eating disorders were about control. Yeah. And Adderall was like popping approval. I mean, Adderall made me feel amazing. I'll be honest. Yeah. I know a lot of people. And it like, it was and it also made me skinny. And skinny equaled lovable. Why don't do that? Yeah. And skinny meant I'm worthy of love. And so for me, it was the magic pill that like, and also achievement meant I was worthy of love. Right. So this was like, the old. That's the magic pill. It was like, I am so productive. I am going to

ace every test. I'm going to like crush work. I'm going to like be the top person and this, but I'm also going to be really skinny to it. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was like those combination of things that it was like, it was my. I loved it. How old were you in this time? I, you know, it's funny. I found this is terrible. I forgot about this until this moment. I've never said this out loud. I was babysitting someone and they had riddle in in the cabinet. Yeah. And I took some. And then I was like, whoof. And then I went to college and a girl sat next to me in my anatomy and fizz class. And she was suddenly very, like, fit.

And I was like, oh, wow, you've been like, I can't remember what I said. You're probably like, wow, you're looking great. Yeah. And she was like, oh, yeah, I have a doctor who I just like told him I at ADD and he gave me Adderall. Here's his like name and number. Gosh. And I went and I lied my way through that conversation and I got a prescription to Adderall. And I took it for probably.

I'd say like five years. And then what was crazy is I went to school in Ohio. I grew up in Chicago. I went back home to Chicago and I was working in Chicago and they couldn't send prescriptions over state lines. And so I began and the prescriptions looked like they were in Microsoft like doc. Right. I forged. I made my own prescription and for a year because the pharmacist knew me. I was getting a fake script until I'm going out of town one weekend with friends and I realize I'm out of Adderall. I'm tweaking out. Yeah. And so I had them stop at a new Walgreens or a new pharmacy. And I went in there and I was like kind of nervous and tweaky and the pharmacist picked up on my very odd behavior. And something about the prescription didn't seem right. The fact that I was

like urging them like, why is this taking so long? And so he called the, well, he says to me, all I know that's happening is he says to me like this prescription, I don't think this prescription is real. I need to stay right there. And my life just like, it was, I'm, the police are coming. I'm going to jail. Like, this is fraud. You know, I'm seeing my whole life kind of fall apart. And then he comes back a few minutes later. And he's like, I spoke to your doctor and he says there may have been a mix up. You're very lucky. Like, don't come back here. And, you know, I think my- Was that a turning point for you? That was a massive turning. Yeah. You know, I think my doctor was just handing out these scripts like candy. Yeah. And so he was terrified. Yeah. Totally. But that was a moment where I was like,

I got to get my shit together. And like, what am I doing? Because like, then that was like, I was like, I'm going to lose everything. Yeah. And like at that point, like the presentation was very important to me and like achievement and all those things. And so I like, I went home that night. And I think I had like 34 or 17 pills left. Yeah. And so I like split them at half and slowly like got myself like got myself off of it. But the magical thing that happened is that I realized, I didn't realize how intensely I was numbing myself from feeling. Yes. And so as I stopped, whittled myself off of Adderall, I like all of a sudden started to like feel emotions again, which was also terrifying because it's like, well, there's a. Terrifying. I don't want to feel. Right. But then I was

like, whoa, intuition. Hello. Yeah. Like, whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're numbing so many emotions with that. I like, yeah. I didn't feel anything. Yeah. I didn't realize I couldn't feel anything. Yeah. It was like, it was like machine. Yeah. Yeah. And so like that ultimately soon after coming off of Adderall is when I decided to leave Chicago and like began like the first important leap in my life of leaving behind like where I grew up and kind of like I've got to carve my own path. I got to get rid away from this family drama. Yeah. And I have to like create what is right and true for me. Gosh, addiction and numbing and all that is so real. I know somebody that was an addict who would go to open houses just to go through cabinets to find. pills like that was like the easy oh there's an open house can i use the restroom yeah it's and and even like myself i mean everybody i announced it on social media but like getting the my boobs done nobody warned me about here's here's a bottle of way too many percissettes right if they didn't tell me to how to wean off i wasn't cognizant of anything while they were telling me and i was around the clock

every six hours taking Percocet and Valium. Yeah. Now I have a history of I got addicted to Valium years ago in my life. So luckily I was like, we're not doing that again. This is just for this. But what I did was try and stop cold turkey because my girlfriends came into town and we were going out. And I all of a sudden was like, I'm either going to shit my pants, puke or fain right now.

What's happening? I start feeling so sick. And I talked to somebody that I know who knows very much about all that stuff. And he goes, you need to take a quarter of a Percocet and have a drink. And I was like, that sounds wrong, but okay. And I wasn't told. But if I had not one been through the Valium stuff before in my life that I was very much doing for numbing and not feeling and didn't want to, if I was like, I don't want to go there

again. I don't want to go down that road again. But like so easy to just take another one, feel better and go on, which then leads to even more addiction and so many things. but nobody talks about it. Doctors don't tell you, hey, by the way, if you're on this for four days, taking it around the clock, you're going to have to have a plan to get off of it and we're not going to give you too many because this leads to addiction. Right, right. What the hell?

I mean, it's crazy that they're not better preparing people. It really is. And I think a lot of people, even if it's not that, even if it's not a pill, some sort of numbing, you know, whatever you're doing to numb, even if it's scrolling, even if it's a TV show or binge watching or eating or whatever it is, how do you start? rebuilding, realizing, how do you start holding yourself accountable and taking those baby steps? Because I know I always say to people, like, you just don't want to take these huge steps to change your life. It starts with baby steps. How did you start rebuilding? And what were those baby steps for you? Yeah. I think the first is just the recognition that you're numbing. Yeah. Like, oh, here I am. Like, you know, as I had a baby seven months ago. And as this, you know, there are moments where it's like,

sometimes I'm so, that I, like, the thing has been scrolling. Yeah. Because here I'm like, another nap, another thing. And it's just the awareness of like, oh, what am I doing? What do I not want to feel right now? Which is often the question I'll ask myself. Yeah. And it's like, oh, boredom. Oh, anxiety. Oh, you know, whatever that is. So it's the recognition of the numbing and then like, what am I trying to not feel? Yeah. And then to me, journaling is always the tool. Because like at some point, you know, I can like, oh, what am I not trying to feel and mentally try to answer that? But like, if I set a timer for three minutes. I'm like, you know, I'm a mom now. I used to journal for 45 minutes. I don't have five minutes. I have three minutes now. Yeah. If I, like, what am I not trying to feel or what is

alive in me? I give myself three minutes. It's amazing what will surface. It's amazing how much better I'll feel on the other side. It's amazing that like whatever needs to be acknowledged or recognize is sometimes very simple. And once it's seen and heard, it like releases the grip. Yeah. And that brings me back to the present moment. So for me, it's always like, how do I come back to the present moment. Well, we're always so scared of those versions showing up, which is why we numb, obviously. But then how do you have compassion for them? Like when you're like, oh, I'm avoiding these feelings. And then you realize it, then you write it out and you feel them. Yeah. Is I think a lot of people don't realize that actually feeling them helps you move through them.

Absolutely. Like, I don't think we need to like get better at not. Some people are like, I just want to, I want to feel less. Like, I don't want to get better at not feeling. I want to get better at feeling. Yeah. And so it's like, I don't want to make the feelings go away. I want to learn how to sit with them. Yeah. It's just sitting with them a little bit longer. And like journaling allows you to not only sit with them, to transmute them. Yeah. But to, you know, allow them to actually move. Because I think when it's when they're stagnant, that's when we like look to something to really, you know, take the edge off. Yeah. But it's, yeah, writing, I think, is a way for us to like move through the edge. I want to know how did you balance being honest and also protecting people in your life while

writing a book because that's something I think of when I'm like, I want to expose. And then I'm like, no, I also have to, you know, point the fingers back at myself because I have to hold myself accountable. But how did you, yeah, how did you balance that? Right first, edit later. So I wrote whatever I needed to say, I, you know, I had 15 versions of this book. And my early drafts were just what a lot of it was what I needed to write to process. And I needed to write to understand. I had rage drafts. Yeah. What did you call it? Rage page. Rage page.

I had rage pages. I had shame pages. You know. And that was more of a cathartic process for me to get out what I needed to say. And then once I did, once I kind of got through that draft, then there was another draft. And that draft of like was, okay, what is the truest thing for me to say? Because those parts of me aren't necessarily the truest. They have a point of view and they have something they need to say.

But like what is really my truth here? So I like, I always encourage people like, you can't think about other people. in the writing process. You think about other people in the editing process. And, you know, when writing a book, there's the writer hat, there's the editor hat, and then there's like the promotional hat. Yeah. There are three different hats. If you try to bring the editor into the writing process, it stifles the writer. The writer's scared to write and scared to speak and scared what other people are going to think. And so like the writer needs to be fully free to say whatever the fuck the writer needs to say. Totally. And then I just got, I felt that. I was like, you said that with your

just yeah I feel that yeah and then the editor can be like okay who is this for yeah and like what is my goal here and what is the like what is the message I'm really trying to say here and like for me with my book is I want women to break free from cages of their own making that was literally going to be my next question is what do you want women to take away from this like women who have done like they have built the life that they think they're supposed to have and they have tried so hard and they have like I'm going to figure this out and I'm going to make it work but like they realized this is not the, like I've created, this is not my life. Yeah.

I thought I wanted this life. This is not my life. It is not true. It is not, you know, connecting with the deepest part of my being and like shit, that is so hard to admit to out loud. And I'm terrified to say that out loud. And like for so a lot, like, I would lead journaling workshops. And the first question I would ask people is what truth are you afraid to admit to yourself and why? But I was afraid to answer that question myself.

I know. You just say it. And I went, oh, wait, say it again so people can think about it. home. What truth are you afraid to admit to yourself and why? And like for a long time, that was that like, I'm in a sexless marriage and I'm unfulfilled here and I'm pretending it's perfect and working. Yeah. And so like that was my cage, but there are a lot of different cages. Like, you know, I also had the like, I thought I had the great job that I don't want cage. You know, I've had different cages in my life that I've had to break free from. Yeah.

And this most recent one has been around love and relationships. And so, you know, I want women to like be in their full aliveness, their full liberation, they're full like, this is my life and I am like very actively created. And I am not going to abandon myself to make other people happy. And I'm not going to say what I think I should say to protect the peace. Like I'm going like be a truth teller in my life. And I'm going to own my life and live my life in the way that I was put on here to, you know, put on. I mean, it's literally the number one thing. that people say on their deathbed that they wish they did differently is not abandon themselves to live a life or somebody else.

Yes. Yeah, everyone just keeps doing it. And it's, there's no age limit either. Like, what would you say to a woman in their 70s who's feeling that? Read the book. I mean, I would, you know, and you asked me earlier, like, if you think you should leave, like, I'm not going to tell you to leave, but like follow what is true and follow what that knowing is.

And if your knowing is saying this is not working and hasn't been for some time and I keep telling myself, I should be more grateful. and I keep telling myself that we can figure it out, like, no, do the thing that is going to honor the truest part of you. What if they believe it's easier to stay? Yeah, you know, I thought it was easier to stay for a long time. It's more comfortable to stay. Ultimately, comfort is just, you know, it's a trap and ease, what you think is easy. It's easy to stay. But like, what's the tradeoff? Yeah. And so I think you have to get honest with yourself that like, yes, this may be, Leaving might be hard.

Leaving might really upset people, but I would promise that, like, your liberation and your aliveness and desire and all of that is on the other side, and it's absolutely worth it. Yeah. I always think about that, like, with women and later in life, I'm like, let's say you're 70. You might have another 30 years of life to live. Yeah. If you're taking care of yourself and you're a healthy person, you could have 30 years of your

life back. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And that's, that's massive. That's something. Where can people find your book and you on social media and all of the things? I'm Hey Amber Ray on social media.

My book is available after where books are sold, lovable. Amber Ray.com. And yeah, come if you, if you do get the book, come say hi. Tell me about it. Yes. I'd love to hear. Yeah. I'd act with you.

I bet. That's, it must be really rewarding. Getting your story out, having that part, like the healing part of writing it all out and then having other people read and knowing that you've inspired them. And then they reach out to you and you get to connect over that. It's the best thing. There it is right there. Vulnerability. People are vulnerable enough to read it and then to write and reach out to you for it. Thank you so much for sharing your story, not only here, but in this book. And everybody go get the book. Where? What camera am I looking at? Yeah. This one. Everybody go get the book. It's incredible. And I just, you just have such

beautiful words and I love the truth-telling and everything you create just helps, you know, people be true to themselves, which is always my biggest message to people and what I'm trying to do for myself. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you. This is fun. Stream your favorite blockbuster films like Gladiator. I will have my vengeance. Good Burger. This is what I call fast food.

Beverly Hills Cop, the girl with a dragon tattoo, and Julie and Julia. Bono Petit. All for free on your favorite devices. Pluto TV. Stream now. Pay never. Hi guys. My name is Hayden, and a lot of you have been asking me to start a podcast.

Okay, I'm totally kidding. Nobody asked me to start a podcast. The world did absolutely. not need another podcast, but I wanted to because there's no place on the internet where I can yap for 30 to 45 minutes straight with my best friends, you guys, and just shoot the shit. Talk about all of my favorite things like social media, pop culture, reality TV, influencers. We all know I love a good influencer. And that's what you can expect from my new podcast. A lot of you have been asking. This is a space for some real conversations with some of my

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