Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Case Kenny | Mindset Shifts That Will Change Your Love Life!

Episode Date: September 9, 2025

#874. Love isn’t about finding “the one”… it’s about finding the person who makes you more you. Mindfulness expert, author, and podcast host Case Kenny joins Kaitlyn to unpack how to approach dating and relationships with confidence, optimism, and presence.From ghosting and scarcity mindsets to reigniting the spark after years together, Case shares practical ways to get out of autopilot and back into curiosity, playfulness, and noticing in your relationship. He explains why the promises you keep to yourself matter most, how to spot red flags early, and what it really means to “settle up” instead of settling down.If you’ve ever wondered how to attract empowering love, how to know if it’s the right partner, or how to break free from feeling stuck — this episode will change the way you think about love.If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE!Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these deals!Booking.com: Booking dot YEAH! Find exactly what you’re booking for. Book today on the site or in the app.Audible: Your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at Audible.com/vine.Pura: Upgrade your home today—shop the Fall Collection now at pura.com.The Real Real: Get $25 off your first purchase when you go toTheRealReal.com/vine. Make sure the vine is all lowercase!Apartments.com: The place to find a place!EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: (7:44) - Why Case Kenny HATES the phrase “settling down” (and what you should do instead)(11:30) - The #1 toxic dating mindset keeping you stuck in the wrong relationships(23:40) -  Can you really avoid ghosters?(26:50) - The surprising science behind what actually keeps long-term love alive (hint: it’s not sex or money).(44:20) - Case’s powerful definition of a soulmate (and why you may have more than one).See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Pura, upgrade your home today. Shop the fall collection now at pura.com. The Real, get $25 off your first purchase when you go to the realreel.com slash vine. Make sure the vine is all lowercase. And Apartments.com, the place to find a place. You're listening to Off the Vine with Caitlin Bristow. Hey, Vino's real quick. If you are listening right now, which obviously you are, you wouldn't be hearing this, can you hit the subscribe or follow button on whatever platform you're on?

Please, that one simple thing helps more than you even realize it allows me to keep growing on this podcast and making these episodes the best they can possibly be obviously for you. That's the only favorite I'm going to ever ask, okay? means the world to me. Thank you. Now let's get into it. Hey, everybody, welcome to Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow, and I'm really excited for today's guest. I'm a huge fan of his on Instagram. Anytime he posts anything, I'm like, add that to my story, add that to my story, save that for one of my grids because he is brilliant and he's just someone that I look up to. If you're not familiar already with Case Kenny, I highly recommend going and following him. He has a podcast also

called New Mindset, Who This? He's a bestselling author and a huge advocate for mindfulness. confidence and living your most authentic life so you know I had to have him on. Today he's here to talk about his brand new book, the opposite of settling, which I think is so timely. It's a guide for anyone to navigate kind of like modern love. What the what's going on with that? Without overwhelm, fear or confusion. I'm like, that seems impossible, but it is what it is. So let's welcome Case to the show. I have so many questions. I love your Instagram account. Thank you. I've like retweeted, retweeted. Thank you. I feel the algorithm for me. Thank you. Have you been retweeting my Instagram post?

Thanks for that. God, I've been hitting the YouTube. My grandpa went viral on YouTube once. And he was like, I don't know what's happening. I guess I keep getting hit on the YouTube. And I was like, oh my God, yeah, it used to be hits on YouTube. Really? Yeah. YouTube used to get hits on YouTube, likes on Facebook.

Right. And I don't remember, but Instagram like didn't count your likes or something before or I can't remember it was. Now you can repost on Instagram. Wait, I don't get that. What does that mean? Like, if you repost something. I don't know where it goes. Yeah, same.

I know you can, and then it, maybe it's in the cloud. I hit it. Things tend to go, right? I probably hit one of yours. I was like, whatever this means, circle that around, and then I couldn't find where it went. There's like a tab on your profile that shows all your repost, but otherwise I don't know where it goes. Oh, that's good to know. There you go.

So where are you from? Chicago. You are from Chicago. Oh, I love Chicago. It's great city. I live in Miami now, though. What? Yeah.

I'm very pale, but I do. I technically live in Miami. Oh, my gosh. Did you just move there because that's like a somewhere you've always dreamt of living? Kind of. I moved down there with my girlfriend three years ago because our leases were over. And we were literally like, what's the opposite of Chicago? Right.

Yeah. New and fresh. And like that's literally Miami. And warmth. And warmth and people and just different. That's interesting. That's cool. Miami's awesome.

I love it there. I used to think I hated Miami because I went once and I like did the club thing. Did you just like stay in Brickle? That's what I would do it. I don't know. And then I realized how many good restaurants are there. And now I just will eat my way through Miami every time I go. I love it so much.

For people. listening and watching, like, how would you even describe what your job is? Well, I always, I always joke that I share my feelings for a living. Yeah. My little quirky thing that I say. Yeah. A layer deeper, I would suppose. I mean, I'm an author. I host a podcast on Sirius X and media. It's all around mindfulness. So, like, people in my inner circle and my team refer to me as a mindfulness expert. It's a kind thing to say, I suppose. But really, it is like a passion around how can I help people, how can help myself, be more mindful so that we can speak to ourselves in a kinder way, be more optimistic, just be like more self-aware and use

language around it. That's kind of why I tend to gravitate towards writing. Yeah. It's it's a measure of how we speak to ourselves in words. Were you the one that started the red writing? Likely not. I'm sure someone, I'm sure someone, I found that had it. I mean, I could probably claim it because people know me for it and I've been for so long, but I'm sure someone else used it before. Maybe I've stamped my mark on it. So we're going to edit this. You claimed it. Just kidding. I mean, I do have red pens on me. So I mean, yeah, see, it's a It is. Part of your uniform. It is a little bit.

How have you, like, how come you are so in touch with your feelings and able to be so mindful? Like, did something happen in your life? Did you have parents that really encouraged thoughtfulness? And what was it? Three things. I would say background-wise. I went to Waldorf school growing up. I don't know what it is.

It's like a very, it's like a very, like, it's like a very, it's like a very, it's a cool concept. I think I really got a lot out of it at an early. age because it really helps me focus on creativity. That's one. Two, in a weird way, I've always been really good at languages. So I majored in Chinese and Arabic in college. I went to Notre Dame and majored in those two languages. There was four and a half people in my class. It was the weirdest thing in the world. Every single day, Chinese and Arabic. And then I lived in China for a bit and worked at a law firm. So I've always loved language and that'll make sense. And then as far as my life, I mean, I'm 37. I worked in advertising for almost 12 years before doing this full

time so from like like on the creative side of advertising on the sales side okay the dark side yeah i was like the business casual take you out to nobu side yeah yeah uh clients out uh and uh i i really liked who i'd become in sales like it was like very clear like you can be good at it and i was and you just followed the blueprint and you'll be successful but then on the like personal side i just i didn't feel like i knew myself i felt like it was unfair to myself and then it all kind of came to ahead, I suppose, when I was like 29, was in a three-year-long relationship. That ended abruptly. And then I was just like, man, what am I doing? Like, just overall. So call it, you know, quarter life existential crisis. And I was like, I've got to figure this out. I need a point

view on life. I need to not just emulate. I need to figure out what is true to me. So in a very, like, meta way because I do it now professionally. I just started my podcast. And I would just hop on there for like 15 minutes and just beat it up. Like five zero minutes or 15? 15 to 20 minutes. Yeah, just solo hosted pods. Yeah. And the rest is honestly history from there because I've done that 736 times. Series X-N picked it up three years ago. Then I started to write some books and started to share online.

And then really realized what I was doing, which is a very practical form of mindfulness, emotional vocabulary. And, yeah, I mean, it changed my life. I think eventually about four years in, I quit my job to do it full time. And, yeah, I mean, the rest is kind of history. It's just been pulling on that passion. Wow. I mean, the world clearly needs that right now because you're, like, you just built your Instagram following from like just talking about being mindful. I did it in reversal world, too.

I started the podcast and the podcast grew. Really? Yeah, it's usually. Yeah, that's pretty impressive. So. Wow. Yeah. It's very, I feel like anytime I see red writing come across my Instagram, I just know I'm like, going to be like, what?

Strap in. Yeah. It's going to be a banger. It's a banger. Maybe. No, it always, always is. And I just feel like you have tools that help people approach dating life as well. Yeah.

So that's, I mean, so most of what I do is around mindfulness, right? So how can we be more self-aware? And then how can we speak to ourselves in a way that honors our emotions but helps us to be unburdened by them? I think the area of life where we're most tripped up by our emotions, other people's emotions, is dating. Yeah, there's a lot of like fear and overthinking and dating. Oh, there's so much.

I mean, it is the most complicated area of life. Right. Because you're dealing with your emotions. You're dealing with their emotions. You're dealing with the collective emotions of the people who expect things from you. The internet, there's many rules. There's always a new book about rules. I decided to write a book around just like, how can we be, how can we speak to ourselves about this thing in a way that relieves the pressure just a little bit?

Yeah. So I decided to do that with this, mostly because I don't know if you use this phrase at all, but I've used it for my whole life. And it's always the phrase settle down. Like people are like, when are you going to settle down? Or I'm like, I want to settle down. And I've always thought that that was a curious phrase because it has the word settle in it. I also has the word down in it. Both of which are things that I don't think really belong in a relationship.

Yeah, it doesn't sound very nice. I think the point of a relationship is more. It's like to help you get more out of life, to help you feel like more of yourself. So really, I just wrote the book in response to that. And yeah, there's a lot that goes along with it as far as mindsets that support more and not less. But I think we need that. I find a lot of people nowadays speak so negatively, perhaps rightfully so, about the prospects of finding someone. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I am one of those. I'm like, I hate men. There's Pete in the dating

pool for this. And I was getting a caveat. I totally understand. It's easy to do in light of frustrating experiences, the collective experience of the internet. I'm on TikTok a lot. And it's all just these insane horror stories. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I got lucky that I'm no longer in the dating pool. Yeah. So I understand that. And I just want to help people, you know, honor their feelings, but to speak to themselves in a little bit of a kinder way. I call this idea, and having visited Miami, maybe you can relate, is I call it out-of-town confidence, which is the idea, like, you know, when you travel and you're in a new city, you've got a little bit more confidence, you get a little more pep in your step, because maybe people don't know you there.

But overall, like, your purpose is to enjoy Miami, to eat a lot, to see a lot of water, maybe to meet some people who kind of amplify it, but you're not there to focus on one person. You're there for the experience. And that's how I try to encourage people to think about dating, like the purpose of your life. is to get as much out of life as possible, to love yourself, to amplify yourself and your sense of joy. And the purpose of a partner is to amplify that. But it's not this, you're not dating from exhaustion or zero in trying to find this person to come along and finally make you happy. It's a total amplification. And so I've always liked that idea that just live your best life. And there's actually

a lot of really interesting science and research behind the fact, behind the idea of like attracting the right partner by being so aligned with loving your life that actually like supports that idea you know you're saying there's science behind it like yeah yeah yeah I believe there was this study that I read recently where it was uh 2,500 long term couples were surveyed so they looked at each person's individual characteristics like you know their self-awareness their happiness their purpose their ambition like things that are only true to me and things that are only true to you and then they they did surveys between them to understand kind of how happy they were in the relationship. Yeah. And what they wanted to see is if if we were married, for instance,

if your qualities made the relationship better via mine. And basically, like, was it our compatibility that made the relationship really successful? Or was it my qualities that made the relationship successful? My self-awareness, my happiness. And they showed overwhelmingly so through some data analysis that it's more about who you are when you choose your partner than their qualities. And of course, compatibility is important. But it was very, really interesting. It was like if you fill your heart with love, cliche, you genuinely do attract a long lasting relationship. And they showed it that it's individual qualities of each person versus like the combined compatibility that makes it longstanding. I mean, why do people

seem so short-sighted when it comes to relationships and not put in like the work and the longevity of like getting to know yourself and love yourself first? If they, if this is proven, if There's science behind it. We all talk about it all the time. Why do people still do that? I think it's human nature. I mean, I think a lot of people are dating with a scarcity mindset. That is, I'm not getting any younger.

This person liked me. They were nice to me. We're dating with that mindset. I also think a lot of people are really not appreciating what they bring to the table. Like, in the book, I talk a lot about, and I like to gas people up. And I would do it delusionally so. But again, there's a lot of research that supports. that you and me individually are more likable than we think we are.

Like, genuinely so. Like, it's called the liking gap, which is the observation and social interactions that overwhelmingly so, we're way more critical of ourselves than we should be like, I could leave this interview after this and be like, man, I don't think we were really vibing. I don't think she really liked me. And ideally so, you would say, no, that's not true. I really enjoyed our conversation. And that's overwhelmingly true across strangers and first dates.

Yeah. We're just very much in our heads about that. Yeah. And think about the kinds of behaviors that that leads to. Like, we just show up because we want to be so liked by someone. The reality is we likely are. And the people who don't, that's fine. We're not compatible, move on.

So I think that maybe that's why I think people need to ground themselves just a little bit more in appreciating what they bring to the table. I really would say from, I don't know how many years now, I have really been aware of how I speak to myself and noticing all the good that I bring to just like my own life and to other people's. live and even just from like I don't remember when I started I am a different human being just from telling myself nice things over the years yeah like I'm like I think I'm a great catch I think I have so much going for myself and I would have never talked like this about myself before it's interesting yeah I mean I won't just keep saying there's research but there's research upon all this like yeah I mean I'll still go I'll still hate myself sometimes and beat myself up what's the balance that's okay Tuesdays you know maybe go off whatever I've got a good balance with that I understand

on that. I mean, I make a living practically off of encouraging people to write positive affirmations about themselves. I think the entire endeavor and just what you just described about speaking to yourself in a kind way, reminding yourself of what you bring to the table, really it's all a measure of returning to a state of deep trust in yourself. I trust myself. And I remember maybe a year ago, I read this study that this was in the workplace, but I thought it was such an interesting extension of how it should apply and love. They basically, these researchers basically followed these corporate employees for like 30 or 40 years over the course of their career. And, you know, people who work in an office, nine and five. And they divided them into two groups like mindset-wise.

The first group was a group who was like, it's a dog-eat-dog world out there. You got to get your bag and get out. Don't trust anyone. Like, we can't all be successful. So do what you got to do to be successful. Yeah. The other group, their mentality was trust is their default. That is, they trust that you and I can both be successful. They trust that, you know, if I feel uncomfortable in a sales meeting, I trust that I will, I will persevere. I trust that the industry will support, whatever. And they showed overwhelmingly so over those decades that the trust is their default group made significantly more money, was promoted more, and it was happier. And I always thought that was such an interesting anecdote that it has to also be true in dating and our relationship

with ourselves. Trust as our default. Trust in ourselves. Trust in light of sometimes people won't vibe with us. But I trust that there will be someone who does. I trust that I know myself. I trust that I won't be unfair to myself. I think that measure of trust is so underrated. And when you speak to yourself in the way you just referenced, that is how you're making that idea of trust a little bit more tangible, putting adjectives on it, for instance. Yeah. It's just so interesting because I feel like there's so many people out there that feel lost and anxious and pressure when it comes to even like who they are as a person and then bringing something to the table and dating today. So I know you said, you know, grounding and trusting and all those things, but what can

people do to do those things? Like, how do you ground? How do you trust yourself? The best thing to do, especially in dating where we have bad experiences and then we get back out there and we have another bad experience, we're back out there and we start doing this thing where we're like, am I asking for too much? Am I being too much? And all this kind of unfair. self-talk. I mean, you know, there's many people are always throwing out rule, do this and do that. I think the only thing we really can do is to find a way to make sure we're just keeping the promises we made to ourselves. Like how many times have you been in a relationship? And then it ended. And at the end of it, you look yourself in a mirror and you're like, I will never do this again. I

promise myself, this is the way forward because you're hot in that zone of clarity, right? Right after that. And then it's, it's been six months and you're dating a year. And suddenly you forget that promise you made to yourself. Yeah. So, I mean, in lieu of a more complex answer, I think the simple answer is when you make a promise to yourself, I always say write it down. I think, I mean, there's a reason that I handwrite everything. But so you remember it and you can reference it. And then when you're amidst that time in your life where you're like, am I asking for too much, like, why do I keep attracting the wrong people, the emotionally unavailable, the people who 180 on me, you know, you just refer back to those things you promised and you try your best to stay positive. And I talk a lot about

how to do that as well, but those promises, I think we're very quick to forget them. Yeah. Writing down. Write them down. Writing down promises to yourself is so legit. I'm going to start doing that. You have a drawer of promises. That'd be cool.

You'd be like, oh, yeah, yeah. I like a promised drawer. You should have bent it. You should make and sell it. I'm going to get into furniture. Yeah, do like a little cute, like aesthetically pleasing promise drawer. I like that. This episode of Off the Vine is brought to you by booking.com.

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why but their romance collection i love that no matter what mood i'm in there's just always something that totally fits and some days i'm just you know vibing with a little modern rom-com if you will like anything from ali hazelwood or lily chew that's smart and funny and then other days i want a little drama a little fantasy so i dive into sarah j masses a court of thorns and roses series i'm only on the second book, but I actually prefer listening to it. It's packed with steamy, swoon-worthy moments that totally sweet me away. Listening to that series, I just feel like it's the perfect way to escape. Maybe that's why I really like listening. I feel like I escape whether I'm cooking, driving, flying, just winding down. And what I love about Audible is just how easy it is to listen.

Anytime, anywhere, the app fits right into my life, no heavy books to carry around, just my favorite little stories, ready whenever I am. Plus, they have thousands of titles across from every romance style you can think of from sexy billionaires to dukes hockey players my personal favorite and even love in other realms so here's the best part your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.com slash vine that's audible dot com slash vine what do you think the biggest mind shift someone can make right now is to feel more empowered in love because I think a lot of times things come with like from me for example I feel jaded like a bit jaded by relationships I feel like people are going to break my trust or they're going to do something that I just like have this whole mindset that someone's going to do something to hurt me eventually and so I feel like my first love like true love I surrender to love totally I went all in I loved the shit out of him and I just don't even know how to like do that kind of love anymore because I'm just in protection. mode at all costs. Totally understand. I think there, I think there's two things. I mean, I think

trust that is like truly trusting someone again, like I trust this person is the most difficult thing in the world. Yeah. Because it's like trust is one of those topics where it's, it's big and it's small, but we tend to be like it's all trust or it's no trust. I talking a little in the book a little bit about like there's degrees of trust. Before you're like, you don't have to completely trust someone initially, of course, why would you? But it also can become a gradual thing. where you look for a couple things and you say, okay, this, that, that, that, okay, there is that full trust there. So it's like, it's not just trust that they won't hurt you. That's a, that could come in many different forms. So I think it's like, what are the different kinds of trust? Do I trust that

they will do what they say they're going to do? Do I trust them to be selfless and care about me in the same way they care about them? Do I trust that they will accept me in my fullest form? Like different kinds of trust, see if those are all there and then, you know, perhaps understand that. I also think from just an anecdote that I've picked up over the years when it comes to, you know, maybe perhaps pressure to like want to want to be fully in, but maybe you're not quite ready. I'd see a lot of people rushing themselves into relationships to prove that they're capable of finding the thing that maybe they lost in the past. I spent a lot of time when I first started doing the podcast asking older generations questions just to fuel my perspective in my life. So like people 60 plus. And I

had so many answers when I would ask them, what do you regret? And a lot of answers about relationships and love. I heard every answer from, I regret getting married too soon, speaking with the wrong partner, having kids too soon, being with the wrong person, every variety of that. I never once, and I've done it hundreds of times, I've never once heard an older person reflecting back say I regret being single. So I always just think it's, you know, it's an anecdote for sure.

But it's like amidst the things that you might regret in life, spending a little bit more time grounded in yourself and loving your life, it will never be a bad thing. Yeah. Take that for what it's worth. I love it. The pressure that we put on ourselves. We're like, why? I need to prove that I am capable of giving and receiving love. I think is pressure that leads us astray. But ultimately, I'm a little bit at war against this growing thing that they, you know, I only match energy type mindset. And I think it's good in its idea, right? Like we want to protect ourselves. Like I'm not going to give you too much unless you give back. I just think the order of operations has to be if you have decided that you are ready to date and you're ready to try, there has to be an effort of I'm willing to show up fully initially and not just like fully like just, you know, with how I act, but like I'm willing to love first. Because I think otherwise all we do is delay the inevitable. And it's not just a nice little self-help isn't to say like, oh, show up and give love. Like there's a purpose behind it. When you show up and you're enthusiastic and you give your energy first without playing a matching game. you are getting clarity as fast as possible for yourself.

It is literally you are collecting data as opposed to, let me see what you give. I'll wait a little bit. And then it's been four months and you're like, okay, you don't have anything to give. You just wasted four months. That's so true. It's a tough pill to swallow, right? Because if you're feeling a little untrusting of other people and I'm like, well, you should go in there and just give it all you've got. It's like, what are you talking about?

Right. I think it's like, how can you create clarity for yourself? Yeah. We're all trying to look for clarity from the other person. and that can be that is so true we really do look for clarity in other people let's talk about the phenomenon of being ghosted how do we get like around this or get through it or i just feel like tons of people it's constantly in if i ask a question on instagram or if i'm talking about like dating and relationship advice or like anything i'm doing that comes up it's like it is a

phenomenon how do we avoid goasters well i don't think you can yeah i mean i think the first thing is like, I think we have to be willing to put ourselves in a position to be ghosted. I think a lot of the times we don't want to be ghosted so much so that when it does come, it's so much worse because that's like the worst possible inevitability. People suck. It is what it is. Why do you think they do it? It's the easy way out?

I can tell you from a male perspective, oftentimes it's this weird convoluted rationalization of not wanting to hurt your feelings. But it's so, I mean, I'm sure you've heard this before, right? It's, yeah, I mean, literally. I mean, I remember in my 20s, like, letting a relationship die just because I didn't have the Cajonese. Yeah. Like, hey, this isn't right for me. Yeah, true.

And I surely can't be alone in that. And I think ghosting is such an easy fix for not wanting to have an awkward conversation. And then, again, weird guy logic, girl logic, but guy logic certainly of, well, then if I just, if I just disappear completely, then it won't hurt her anymore. I don't know. I talk in the book about how, like, technically speaking, I say, like, you should want a bad boy or you should want a bad girl in the sense of. of a, a lot of men in trying to be a good guy, they hurt you more, right? Yeah. A good guy doesn't hurt a woman.

A good guy doesn't lead a woman on. So they do all this weird tactics of, you know, ghosting or ignoring or just not being inquisitive, weird, weird stuff and inadvertently hurt you more. A bad guy, a bad girl, whatever it is, is willing to have a difficult conversation, either for the sake of the relationship to make it move forward, but it's an awkward conversation or to put a period at the end of it and say, this isn't right for me. like that is an essential quality and I think a lot of men when they're younger don't have it and again it's just easier people gravitate towards the easiest flow in life and it's easier to

ghost than it is to say hey I know we went on a date and I know I know I said I see a future with you but I've changed my mind it's tough it is it is tough but it is I just like crave honesty out of people in general like even if it I'd rather somebody hurt me than ghost me yeah hurt me Yeah. Your new book talks about love that upgrades your life and not just a partner you settle for. Now we kind of talked about this with the settle down. Yeah. But what are the signs? Like what are the signs that it's not the right partner? Not the right partner for sure. Well, I mean, I again, I remember I, the reason I wrote the book was I didn't like the wording settle down. And then I did a post on Instagram maybe two years ago. I was like, you deserve a relationship where you get hotter, happier and wealthier together. And I like blew up. And I was like, yeah, yeah, bars. And I was like, yeah, it's cool, right? Because it's, it's. The effort is to amplify your happiness, like your glow up, your bank account, like all these practical and immaterial things. But I think to answer your question, I mean, the whole purpose to me of a relationship is to help return you to a state of playfulness.

Yeah. That's the point of life and we have lost the plot because life is serious. Don't get serious. There are serious things in life that we need to get serious about. But a relationship should be the one area of life where you're serious about each other and commitment and loyalty, raising your family. but otherwise it is just humor and goofiness and just being being literal silly gooses. And again, there's a lot of research behind like what creates a healthy relationship,

what keeps a healthy relationship going, namely shared humor and playfulness. And that's an easy thing for us to relate to. But it also represents a lot of deeper things such as always talk about love is noticing. So to answer your question, someone who doesn't continue to notice you and isn't continuously curious about you, big red flag. You're not going to be able to build playfulness on top of someone who doesn't notice you, who isn't in the moment with you. I talk in the book about bids for connection, which is like, how do you actually build a connection with someone, a bid? That is, I throw a piece of vulnerability to you, you throw it to me and it becomes this wonderful collective thing. It could be

as simple as, you know, a shoulder rub, a physical bid. It could be asking how your day was and genuinely wanting to know. The biggest one I highlight is shared, created humor. not just laughing at the same things, but creating moments of humor based upon what we notice, based upon what we know about each other. It's a beautiful thing. And obviously, we want funny people in our lives. I need, need funny. It's an essential quality. Maybe more important than height is funny. It is for me. I agree. Right? Yes. But I think we've lost sight of that. So I think a relationship should return you to a state of play because the whole idea of a relationship is that makes you feel like more of yourself. Yes. The last date I went on, it was yesterday.

day. I taught him a, I choreographed to dance for us. Beautiful. And we were laughing so hard. It's more playful than that. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I feel like I cut you off. Like in a restaurant? Like, no. Back in his apartment. Oh, nice. And it was a hip hop dance. Don't get weird. It wasn't something weird. But it was hilarious. Yeah. That's perfect. And he was loving it. But I do feel like I cut you off. Do you know what you're going to say? I have no idea what I'm going to say. I rarely do. So that's me too. Wait, I had a thought too. earlier while you were talking and I was like, don't forget it. And I just forgot it. I can give you another example off of that. Please. Because like, you know, you're outgoing. You're bold. It's a beautiful thing. We oftentimes, again, when we, we underestimate how likable we are. But then we also overestimate how much so our weirdness is a turnoff. We think the thing

that makes us too loud, too quiet, too passionate, to this, to that, that will turn off the right people. Again, not to just keep saying research, but non-conforming change. traits. I talk a lot about it in a book, non-conforming traits, right? Something that you think makes you a little bit outside of the normal spectrum. That is overwhelmingly so the thing that draws people to you. I believe that. It will repel the wrong people. I always say that, like, passion is a filter for the wrong people and a magnet for the right people. But I do think we need to pay a little bit more respect, put some respect on the things that make us different. I talk in the book about we all have an essence. I reference the work of James Hillman, who has a book called The Souls Code,

which is basically the idea not to lean into cliche, but there's something special about all of us. It might not be like this crazy special thing that you could be like, that's the thing. It could just be the mix of different emotions and the way we live our life and that mix is unique. And he talks about how we all have that in us and it's like an acorn.

And you could take an acorn, you could plant it in a field and you could hope that it'll turn into a banana tree, but it has to become an oak tree. That's in its DNA. And there is something in all of us that has to see the light of day. And sometimes we don't realize,

it until retrospect. We don't realize it until we're in a relationship and we feel suffocated and lonely. I think it's our life's work to figure out what that is, but that should be the lens through which we look at a relationship. Does my partner help that thing see the light of day? Do they bring their matches and keep that fire going? Yeah. Is the question. And do we do the same thing for them, of course. But I mean, long term, you know, there's that thing called the seven year itch where at seven years in a relationship people go through a really hard time and the you know this they start like questioning like do they want to stay together it's like it's a thing apparently sure probably researched you know so i'm like how do people get through the itch or the hard times when it's like

both people you know it's like some days you got to show up 80% other people might be a 20 and then you know you always got to show up for each other but what if both people are in that position and they've like lost love and romance do you think like that's just time to call it quits or do you think you power through or what who am i to say but i i think i think it's obviously normal to have ups and downs i think where is your level of motivation to continue to try and to notice i think sometimes in light of those moments where we're like man i don't know if i'm really feeling it anymore something like that we do misconstrue love like we say love is a feeling love is a feeling you do feel in love of course but it's also a choice and it's a thing and it's a practice

and that's what makes you feel a certain way. But it's like order of operations. It's like, I want to feel in love. Where is the love? I want to feel in love. I don't feel in love. Yeah. And it's like, well, where is the choice to do the things that make you feel in love?

Mine and theirs. Yeah. So I think sometimes there is accountability there. And I mean, you talk to any, any, you know, relationship therapist. And I think there's all kinds of things that you could do to help re-spark. And it's not a bad thing necessarily. But I also, like, I think a lot about difficult conversations, specifically around what I alluded to earlier, that,

we all love other people in ways that we like to be loved. We love people in ways that our ex like to be loved. We're trying our best and I want you to feel loved. And, you know, hopefully because we have this compatibility, I'll get it right because there's something special about our relationship. But it is a healthy conversation to be able to say, hey, I know you love me, but I don't really feel loved by you. Yeah. And that's a difficult conversation to have. You feel selfish.

You feel like you're asking for too much. But I think it's the best conversation to have, both for you, throwing out your honesty, and then, for them to see how they react like a man on the receiving end of that i remember when i first started dating my girlfriend we've been dating for like four years now i used to i guess i guess my love language of of giving is gifts i like to give gifts it's and i like to give books as gifts because it's like this personal emotional thing and i used to shower her with books and just give her books and then eventually one day she was like hey case i appreciate the books but please stop giving me books And I think younger me with the wrong person would have been like, like, how dare you?

Like, this is, I am loving you. Yeah. All that effort. But I was like, I don't know, I think I just spoke to how much I love her and care for her and her compatibility. I was like, oh, okay, well, then I want you to feel loved. Yeah. How do you like to be loved. Yeah.

And I know sometimes people are like, well, I shouldn't have to tell and say. Oh, I definitely think you have to tell and say. Thank you. Yeah. Right. I talked to a fair amount of women who are like, well, they should know. and if I have to tell him and then he does it, he's just doing it. And I think that's a little off.

No, men also have little pea brains. They need to be told. So true. They're just applesauce for brains. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's the most romantic thing in the world. For you to say, hey, I don't feel loved, but when you do this, it makes me feel love.

And then for me to pick that, pick up that rope and just run with it. Yeah, it's also, I would like someone to tell me how they want to be loved, too. I don't read minds. Yeah. I'd like that. Tell me, please. Like, help me help you. So I think in light of the original,

question like when you have you have that lull conversations like that the choices yeah throwing back into it i think yeah people it's so hard because how fun is the honeymoon phase it is so fun to have the butterflies and to feel the like what you think is love but like you said love becomes a choice and i think that's hard for a lot of people to accept because once you get into that choice phase it feels like the love is dead. And I think people have a really hard time with understanding that. And that's why relationships usually end after like two years if it's, you know, because they're like, I've noticed a lot living in Miami too, which is la-la land for dating. Yeah. I can only imagine. I talk in the book about the difference between declarations of love and considerations. So small, big declarations

and small considerations. Like, of course, we all want to be loved in big, loud ways, right? Who wouldn't want flowers and big dates and these really over-the-top gestures yeah but a relationship built on that is not it's not going to last right it has to be built on the small noticing the small considerations i'll return to that and a focus on that might not be as sexy as yeah you know no boo and carbone yeah yeah i'm just thinking of like classic miami yeah yeah yeah yeah super goofy yeah uh no disrespect to those restaurants they're delicious but like you know that is not what a relationship is built on and like i always say like the beginning of a relationship of a relationship relationship isn't real. And I don't mean that in a sense to like rob you of the great time that is those

butterflies. No, it's definitely not real. It's we're, we're our best behavior. Yeah. Having our funniest jokes. We're wearing our best outfits, whatever, taking their best restaurants. And you're like having sex all the time. And then after like two years, you're like, but now I just like, I just talk to your mom on the phone. And like, I know you just shit like five minutes ago. And I'm like, you're too. But people, that's how people I feel like get lost or they think about cheating because they're like, oh, well, that would be really fun to feel that spark again. But again, the choice is do you want to be a good partner or a piece of shit?

Like, you know, like. Pretty simple. It's pretty simple if you think about it. But I was looking at something, and again, I don't know, you see so many studies these days on Instagram and TikTok and this research. And I was wondering if this one is true. But it says, like, like, women born between 85 and 89 or something, they think, like, eventually, they're like, I don't think they're going to be married and they're going to find their happiest selves by themselves and with dogs. And, like, they're starting to realize, like, they don't want men. Is that, have you heard anything about that?

I have. It's my algorithm. No, I think I know what you're talking about. I read an article in the journal the other day that was like women are increasingly not coupling. And, yeah, it was definitely around millennial women as well, which I put it there. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's data to support that fact that women are getting married later in life, having kids later in life. There's certainly no denying that.

Yeah. I don't think it's a collective, I mean, I think there's a lot changing culturally and education-wise and professionally for women, which is an amazing thing. there's no longer this intense pressure or requirement to get married and coupled up soon, which I think is great and fine. I also, I mean, again, I live in the land a little bit of, like, poetic interpretation of life. I think it's a sign that women in particular are expanding their definitions of love. Yeah. I call it entering your Renaissance era, which is to understand that love takes a lot of different forms in life.

And the one that we gravitate towards is with another human because it's given and it's received. I think there's a lot of beautiful forms of love that we just give and that, you know, giving love to someone and not having it in return still is a beautiful experience. I think also love for the arts and music and travel and self and creation is a beautiful thing. And that truly is love. And I think that's something that we should throw ourselves into. And if that means getting a little bit married late, I'm 37 and we'll be married somewhat soon. And I certainly thought I'd be married sooner and earlier. and I don't think there's a problem with that.

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Chapter one of the book and I wrote this in response to my own 20 something straight mail avoidant attachment style thinking you know i always assume that a relationship would rob me of my independence yeah that was always the line of logic especially when it's got the settle down phrasing next to it why wouldn't you think that you're going to be less spontaneous less ambitious it's we not me the whole thing yeah i remember reading this thing about it's called the dependency paradox it's in it describes the relationship between child and caregiver that says that the more dependent the child is upon the caregiver, dependent in a sense of closeness and loyalty and openness, not like co-dependence, but the closer that they are together, the more willing the child is to be

independent. That is, the more willing the child is to take some first steps, whatever it is, because they know mom or dad has their back, will support them, and they know it's okay. And I always thought that that was a beautiful anecdote about relationship between people who love each other. Why can't the same be true of a relationship? That the closer you are, the more independent you should be fueled to be. And it's in kind of contrast to this. weird social assumption that oh if she's doing something without him or he's doing something about him that something's wrong with the relationship yeah you know I hate to speak too much from anecdote but like with my relationship with my girlfriend like we are super independent yeah and I think

it's the healthiest thing that's independent with time and habit but also independent with vision and soul and just living yeah we've been living together in Miami for three years and you know we're on top of each other practically yeah it's I mean very independent and And I think that has really flipped my framing of a relationship as something that amplifies your independence. The whole idea is amplify it. So it implies yourself, your ambition, your bank account perhaps, but also your independence as like a core foundation of it. And that changed a lot for me. Yeah.

But my thinking in the past was very like very independent driven. Like if people are going to get your book, what would you say the main takeaway from it is? Or there are probably so many takeaways. But like what give us like a general. Yeah. What is the word? Synopsis. Synopsis.

I always forgot that word. It's a good word. It's a great word. Synopsis. I would say the general synopsis. I mean, the subtitles, how to get everything you want out of love and life without losing your spark. There it is. Yeah.

Spark. Yeah. So the book is half about what is your spark? Yeah. What is your thing? What is that passion, that intensity, that thing that you would hate to see you lose in a relationship, that you would look back and regret having lost that because you just wanted to be in a relationship so bad. Yeah.

Let's figure out what that thing is. Yeah. And let's highlight it. And let's shout out from a mountain. And then let's use that as the lens to say this person is right for me or not right for me. That is the lens. And all the other things will follow. Communication styles, love languages, all the things that we like put here.

And then we're trying to chase. Start with the spark. Use that as a lens. And then, you know, the book more or less is about how can we speak to ourselves in a more optimistic way. Like I lead a lot of these mindfulness sessions for, I do them for the NFL. I do them for corporate clients where I take people. It's cool to see men do this. I love that. I do think like men are starting to get more mindful or at least people are incorporating things more into sports and stuff to be more mindful.

The hack that I've seen is because men are really into like biohacking now. Yes, yes. So you kind of lump it under biohacking and then you get all the dudes in. It's so smart. Like a little bait and switch. I love being manipulative. Perfect. But it's for the benefit of your ritual manipulation. For sure. It's for their benefit. It's in your best interest. It promise. I promise. But like I'll do them for NFL teams and you'll get.

300 grown men who hit each other for a living in a room. And it's feelings sharing time. And basically what I do is I help people, men, women, whoever, I say, how do you feel? And people say this and that. And it's negative, negative, negative. By the end of it, it's, we're still honoring the negative emotion, but we've completed an entirely different sentence structure around how we relate to that emotion. And that's what the book's about about we're all very frustrated in dating, understandable. Or we're frustrating single or we're frustrated in a relationship. Yep. Great. That is a piece of clarity that we can learn from. Let's speak to ourselves about it. Let's use emotional vocabulary to be more optimistic.

Yeah. I think a lot of people have given up in many different areas of life. If we could find a way to be more optimistic, then I think the process of finding your person becomes simpler, less pressure, and the process of reigniting a spark in a relationship becomes simpler. So really, for me, it's all about word choices, which is why I tend to write. So you believe that there is someone out there for everybody in that you believe in like one person for the rest of your life marriage i mean i i do talk about soulmates a fair amount i define a soulmate as someone who helps you break a pattern in life and i think there's many different types of soulmates yeah and i think hopefully you have one permanent one yeah but i think people come in and out of your lives and

have enormously helpful and rewarding experiences yeah i'm not too much of a twin flame one person needle in a haystack because i think again it puts that undue pressure but i think you know i talk in the book also about how like cheerfulness is the most certain sign of wisdom and that is cheerfulness in retrospect that is to be able to have dated someone and let's say it ended in a dumpster fire yeah to still be able to look back and appreciate certain moments with that person and memories it can be very difficult understandably but yeah i see a lot of people just throw out an entire chapter of life because it ended in a way that is hurtful. And I think, especially in light of soulmates and the pressure that there's this one person, I think everyone has someone out there and find them later in life. But along the way, we have to find a way to at least appreciate some of those chapters that didn't end in that person. And it requires a lot of, you can call it an ego death, a lot of vulnerability, finding one, even if it's one small moment in the past, you could be like, I like that moment. Or I liked who I was in that moment. We don't give them credit for it. I liked who I was in that moment. I think that's really going to help you release. some of that pressure to be like soulmate or what if she was my soulmate and the things that we do

to chase that person memories are a heck of a thing like nostalgia is a heck of a thing like anger and retrospects a heck of a thing i talk in the book about this thing called the peak end theory which is just it's not really a theory it's more of an observation about how our memories work that we tend to remember past events based on the emotional peak or the end and we kind of ignore all the in-between namely the in-between we could be one of those some of those moments where we could practice cheerfulness as a sign of wisdom. We tend to grasp on to the good thing that we lost or we try to grasp on to the end where it all fell apart. And that's what fuels our awareness or anger moving forward because we're holding on to those things. So I think it's really helpful

in light of our memories of like what exactly are we cherry picking to support a certain mindset in the present. Yeah. I think that kind of awareness and humility perhaps is like really helpful. Humility for sure. Oh my gosh. I am like I'm very spiritual. Like I will have full ritual. for letting things go and funerals for all different types of things and I always highly recommend it to people because I'm like it is just the power of suggestion even to yourself can be it can just shift something slightly in your brain and then you're not like thinking about it with anger and you're not dreaming about it with anger and it's just like not having so much power over you do you have like a visualization do any do any like in-depth visualizations

for your life moving like forward you know one time I did a two hour visualization awesome it was at a therapy retreat directors cut It was a lot. But I was like, I'm a very visual person. Okay, we all know this feeling when your to-do list is so long. You don't even know where to start. Oh, I feel like that right now, actually.

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Yeah, I see all that. And my sister is the same way. My mom was like, you guys are crazy. She's like, I see it in black. And yeah, it was, it's just interesting. But they say that people who see in color have like a very visual thing. Yeah. I've recently, it's funny because like visualization for me has become a big part of my practice and my teachings as well.

I think in my 20s, I was like, this is goofy. What am I just like fantasizing? Yeah. And now it's like there's so much great science for one around how the brain doesn't know the difference between a really in-depth visualization and a memory. It's like the same parts of the cortex. And then also just like are again, our. Our entire work is around, like, how can we create familiarity with the emotion that we want to feel? And I think a lot about visualization in that respect as well.

I think a lot of times when people visualize or we try to, you know, we envision the future that we want with the partner that we want. We're, like, trying to fill in a blank and we're kind of fantasizing. Whereas for me, it's like create familiarity with a feeling. It's not like fake it to you make it type visualization. It's like feel it until it's familiar. And like for me, I don't know if you do it this way, but like when I, do my visualization it's all in retrospect i'm creating a memory by retelling myself of the time that this thing happened yeah so i'm looking back not looking forward trying to fill in oh i don't do that

you should try it sometimes like pretend like in your visualization pretend like you're telling your friend about the time and the moment that the thing happened yeah obviously be as specific as you can to really get the get the the brain going but think about it as a memory you're you're thinking back on the memory as opposed to thinking forward to the future that you want to live it's to me it's changed everything i vividly think of things that like i've seen in my life i remember dreams i remember even just visualizations of being on the bachelor and i remember thinking in my brain that's funny like why do i keep seeing myself and feeling myself there like before i even went on it oh like i had i had visualizations and it kept happening and i would

be like this is so strange it's like so clear to me yeah and i had no like want to to go on a dating show. Yeah. And I was in a relationship at the time. And it just kept coming in so clear to me. And every time I do a visualization, something like that would come in. And then it happened for when I started watching Dancing with the Stars

when I was like, oh God, I didn't even know how old I was. It was probably 2006 when I started watching it. I was just like, I just feel like I'm going to be on that show one day. Wow. And so, and I would just see, I always had delusional, like, confidence and thoughts. And I would just, but my, question is how do I get that back? Because now I overthink it and now I don't have

something where I'm like, that's where I'm going to be. This is what's going to. And I'm, then I go my crazy ass brain goes, oh God, am I going to die? Because usually I have visualizations and I have things. Yeah. Okay. Well. I'm like, oh shit. I don't see it. I don't see a future. I'm dead. But yeah. I'm like. So is when you do visualizations are you, so you're not creating a scenario. You want like a

manifestation for your future. You're more what what is it? I mean, it is. Like, I am in, like, I am thinking about the thing that I want to receive, the feeling that I want to feel. But I'm constructing it in such a way that I'm thinking back upon it. And it's memory. I'm thinking back. It's memory. It's memory as opposed to forward. It's like fake it to you, make it or feel it in reverse. Yeah. So to me, it just, it helps hone me so much more so more so in the feeling. Yeah. And the more familiar you are with certain feelings, I'd say the more likely you are to attract it. I am a little delusional in that sense. Yeah. If you have familiarity with the feeling that you want to have, like, I think it's only a matter of time until it's permanent in your life. But yeah, but that difference of looking back versus looking forward. Yeah, give it a try. It's just a different mentality. Like the different switch in your brain. Yeah.

I'm going out to my parents' lakehouse in Canada in a few days. And that's where I feel like my most peaceful self. I'm always like on the highest vibration of life there. And I just like feel so calm. I'm going to try that there. Yeah. And being by water. Being by water.

Oh, God. Yes. parts of the branches. It's my favorite place to be. And I'm going to get my own red pen and I'm going to write down some promises. Perfect. I wrote this for you as well. You did not? Of course. I think this fits you. I don't know you too well. But now that I know you super well.

No, no, no. This is very up. Okay. Okay. Well, you want to read it. I kind of want you to read it to me. Oh, yeah. Here we go. Here. No, I just, I just wrote that the more, the more you love your spicy little weirdo self, the more you'll find people who love it to. How did you do that? I spend all day just thinking about little clever ways.

I mean, that's a clever expression of self-love as an attractor. I do want to cry. I don't know why. I'm sensitive today. Let her rip. Let's go. I'm tired. That's so true, though.

I feel like... And it is true because I open with talking about how overwhelmingly so. It's who you are when you choose a partner that matters more than some of their qualities. How did you know as a spicy little weirdo? It fits. I feel like it fits. Is it pretty obvious? That's what I'm told.

And now, now, I have a spicy little weird now. I love that. And I really do. I've been like, I go in and out of loving that part of myself because there are times where I do interviews or I'm like supposed to be a polished host of a new show on Good Morning America. And my, my natural self can't do it. I'm like, how do I make a joke? Like, how do I do something funny or like spicy? Like, that's just who I am.

And I love it. The world. The world doesn't need a normal. version of or of anyone. Yeah, that's true. I can't wait to frame them. There it is. Perfect. I want to hang in my bathroom. By your promise drawer. But right by my promise drawer. Okay, I actually do want to ask this question. What is your take on routines in relationship? Like, to have comfort and have a routine, do you think that's healthy or do you think things should be like more, I guess the word playful? Or does having a routine with somebody help?

I think a routine is helpful, certainly, in just setting expectations that there's always this safety net, safeness simplicity. Like, I'm a bit, like, as much as I think love should help you get more out of life in a spontaneous way, in a travel way, and the late nights and things like that. I think the beauty of being with the right person is a level of simplicity it offers you that you know it's like, we will be doing this thing. We will make this decision together. Yeah. Tuesdays is spaghetti night, whatever. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's a beautiful thing. I do too. But again, to keep the relationship, like me and my girlfriend, like, I can get boring fast, which isn't my greatest quality. But, like, I'm also, I'm recently like, I am going to be spontaneous. Yeah. Like, even like we were around the Lower East Side the other day. And I'm not much of like, why don't we just pop in here kind of got more of like who's going to be there.

What's coming to the function? What's on the menu? And I was like, let's just do it. Like, let's be, like, push ourselves. Yeah. That's a small, silliest example. But things like that. No, but that's kind of, I like digestible things that are simple that you can do.

Yeah. Yeah. And like my, I get a little bit like my girlfriend's a DJ. So like we're always in like cool and stuff. But like we're in and out. Like I can't. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Can't do clubs anymore. But we were up and we, she played at the surf lodge. So we took the train all way up and then we came back down. She had another set that night. And I was like, this is, this is awesome. Oh my gosh. We should just appreciate this wild thing that we don't do that frequently. Yeah. And, and appreciate it. And I, you know, that's maybe a far spectrum example. But like, I do think it is important to have the simplicity. What about what about going to bed mad?

I think we should avoid it, if at all possible, but I also think to pressure someone to be like, we're going to solve this right here now is also unfair. Yeah. So I think it's a completely healthy thing to say, hey, I need to collect my thoughts and go from there. It's my favorite thing in the world to go to bed, mad. Nice. Because it doesn't happen very often. But when it does, I go, I know this is so silly and I'm not going to be mad about it in the morning. Oh, well, that's beautiful.

Yeah. If you can express that in the moment, too, even more beautiful. Yes. I can. I can now. Beautiful. Yeah. Double beautiful. And then also triple beautiful. I mean, you also get a lot of clarity overnight, too. So if you do need to work through something in the morning, you start there. But I think that expression of, hey, Sherry, I'm a little upset. But we'll talk about it in a morning.

Yeah. Figure it out. That versus slamming the door. Exactly. And then when I wake up and, yeah, I shouldn't say go to bed, like, whuming, mad. I'm just like, okay, reel it in. I need to sleep because that's when I do recharge. That's when I do reset. And it's like so crazy. crazy that our body just goes into these like comas and we just hallucinate and then we wake up and it's like it's a new day being humans weird it's so weird and also a therapist will always tell you the acronym is

halt right so like don't make a decision don't do something big when you're hungry angry lonely or tired yeah halt yes and if you're all those things all at once oh god and certainly that's a recipe for a book take a take a break oh god okay last question is for someone who feels stuck in their relationship what is a small actionable step that they can take to start settling up as you say um even in with a long term partnership sure yeah i mean i think the the best advice is the boring one it's going to be a conversation around it do you feel stuck in what you're receiving do you feel stuck in the routine of it i think finding clarity of where it's coming from i think i talk about it in a book i talk about it all the time i'm a big opponent of doing the opposite yeah i don't know if you

ever watch seinfeld yeah but there's a when there's an episode where george who's always down on his luck never gets women yeah one day he goes if i've if i've never gotten what i want because of how i act and what i do maybe doing the opposite of that will be the thing that will give me what i want and then he literally walks up to this 10 out of 10 woman at the bar and it's like hi i'm george i'm unemployed and i live with my mom yeah yeah she's like hello george it comes as whoa i did not expect that to happen because he did the opposite of what he normally does so i would just yeah i mean to our conversation two minutes ago about like how can you inject some change yeah Like, I talk about clarity is found in chaos.

Chaos is a big word, but create some healthy chaos for yourself, inject some change. Think back about the energy and effort you brought in the beginning of a relationship. How can you tap back into that? How can you return to a state of play? And I think the answer will present itself for you. Yeah, that's really cool. Thank you so much for just sharing your insight and your knowledge and your mindfulness. It's really cool.

I could, so many people I have on the podcast, like when I find ones that, like I just sit here and I forget that I have to host sometimes. I'm like, those are my favorite ones because I'm just like trying to soak in everything you're saying. I'm like, ooh, don't forget that one. Oh, thank you. So I really, I really appreciate it. And your book, everyone can find it to where?

It's everywhere. It's everywhere you get a book, like Amazon as well. I feel like it's an incredible resource for so many people, at anyone at any age of any stage in their life to navigate just like anything in life dating or settling up. Settling up. Settling up. Yeah, just trying to navigate that whole, what we call life. It's a complex thing.

Like, did you say life is weird? It's very weird. It's so weird. And that's the best part, I think, sometimes. That is the best part. Yeah. Yeah. Well, where can people find you on social media?

Case.com on Instagram. I have a podcast called New Mindset Who Dis. I like that. All my books, casecanny.com. But if you Google, you'll find. You'll see. I talk a lot about these things. Yeah, that's awesome.

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