Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Cheryl Burke | How Sobriety Changed Everything — DWTS, Divorce & Starting Over!

Episode Date: April 9, 2026

#935. What happens when you walk away from the thing that defined your entire life?Cheryl Burke gets real about leaving Dancing with the Stars after 26 seasons — and why part of her still wonders if it was the worst decision she’s ever made.We talk about the identity shift no one prepares you for, going through a very public divorce, and the moment she realized she had to completely start over. She also opens up about sobriety, how it changed every relationship in her life, and why she says she’s lived “nine different lives.”Plus… how she’s stepping into a whole new chapter with beauty, confidence, and the Sephora Squad.If you’ve ever had to start over, question everything, or figure out who you are in a new chapter — this episode is for you.If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE!Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these AMAZING deals!Chewy: Chewy has everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy. And right now you can save $20 on your first order and get free shipping by going to Chewpanions.chewy.com/offthevinepodcast.Figs: Right now, if you go to wearFIGS.com and use the code FIGS RX, you can get 15% off your first order.EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: (10:13) Her wild “party girl” era — being out 7 nights a week and constantly chased by TMZ(13:03) How getting sober changed every relationship in her life — including the one with herself(17:39) The emotional moment she walked away from DWTS — and why she still questions if it was a mistake(42:30) Starting over from scratch and stepping into a whole new chapter in the beauty world See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode of Off the Vine is brought to you by Chewy. Chooey has everything you need to to keep your pet happy and healthy. And right now you can save $20 on your first order and get free shipping by going to Chewpanions.chooey.com slash off the vine podcast. Figs right now, if you go to WhereFigs.com and use the code Figs RX, you can get 15% off your first order. You're listening to Off the Vine with Caitlin Bristow. Hey, Vino's, real quick, if you are listening right now, which obviously you are or you wouldn't be hearing this, can you hit the subscribe or follow button on whatever platform you're on? Please, that one simple thing helps more than you even realize it allows me to keep growing on this podcast and making these episodes the best they can possibly be

obviously for you. That's the only favorite I'm going to ever ask, okay? It truly means the world to me. Thank you. Now let's get into it. Hey everybody. Welcome to Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow, and we have Cheryl Burke on the podcast today, obviously one of the most recognizable professional dancers of our generation from The Dancing with the Star, she spent 26 seasons on Dancing With the Stars, became the first female pro to win the show and helped to define an entire era of reality television. That's the truth. But what's the most interesting thing about Cheryl isn't just who she was on that stage. It's who she's become after stepping away from it. So in the past few years, Cheryl has walked through divorce publicly. She's publicly closed the chapter on the career that

defined her identity, she would say, and has been very open about sobriety. healing and rebuilding her life from the ground up. So today she just speaks more openly about that. And I had a nice little conversation with my friend, Cheryl Burke. First of all, it's so good to see you. I wish it was in person, but this little app will have to do virtual. But you look amazing. And I just love seeing your smiling face. Thanks. It's so good to see you. It's been a couple. Wait, it's been years. The last time I saw you was like you were at your last Dancing with the Stars show. No, I've seen you since that. No, no. Well, I interviewed you, but it wasn't in person. So like we haven't I've seen each other in person in a while.

A long time. But yes, it's been so long and hurry home. Well, then this is so us, isn't it, to do virtual then? Yeah, I know. It was so funny because today I was watching the Olympic gold medal for Canada versus the U.S. with hockey. And everyone was like, aren't you cheering for United States? And I was like, yeah, but not against Canada.

Right. Like, could you imagine moving somewhere for just 10 years and then going against your own country and the sport that we invented? Exactly. Exactly. And you're there now. So that would be, you'd be a traitor. Yeah, I would be a traitor. And I in about that life, unless I'm on TV getting paid for it. Unless you're on traitors. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Pay me and I'll be a traitor. Right. So I always love interviewing people that I have a friendship with because I get to know them so much better by creepily researching them. But you spent over half of your life being known as Cheryl Burke from Dancing with the Stars, which is so crazy to me because what a career. But that comes with challenges obviously as well as like, that's, an incredible career, but having that long of a career and making big changes, obviously, comes with challenges. But what did it feel like the moment you realized that chapter was actually over?

Now, I know I was there the day of and I saw you in the chair and it was, I was emotional because I grew up watching Dancing with the Stars. And I'm like, you are dancing with the stars. So what was that like for you? Which part? Retiring or coming back recently? Retiring. Oh, it was the hardest breakup ever in the whole wide world. And I guess this is what like a real breakup feels like, meaning like I've had relationships, obviously, but I think I've always had this like protection, like this protective wall where maybe I haven't been a 100% vulnerable, like 100% vulnerable with another person because of my own fear and my own just insecurities, right? But when it comes to dancing with the stars, dance in general, just as a whole, has saved

my life in so many ways and it was something that I've done since I was a little girl. It was my identity. And then coming to a show like Dancing with Stars from the beginning, basically from second season, it was, I mean, I wasn't holding back. This was my life. Like this is, there was no wall up, you know, so they knew all of me. And whoever watched knew all of me or the edited version, I have to say, I mean, come on. I was edited. But not in a bad way. No, it's reality TV. Of course you're edited. In a PG way. Yeah. And I have to say, I just feel like now, and it's been years, that I feel like the umbilical cord has finally been released. For that long of a career, I feel like even just spiritually feeling attached to the show in so many ways. Like, I feel attached to the show from doing one season because it like it is, it consumes your life. But I don't even know if I know the answer to this. Was leaving the show fully your decision emotionally or did part of you feel like you were.

were forced to evolve. Oh, no, no, no, I chose to leave the show. But for your own personal growth, like, were you like, I need to evolve outside of the show. Yeah. And this was something I was thinking about for many years. This wasn't just like a quick decision. Okay. So this was something I felt, I would say, maybe even over five years prior to me announcing my retirement. I kind of felt stagnant. Like, I didn't know what it was. And obviously, I didn't, like, I wasn't like, oh, it's stagnant. And I feel stagnant. Like, no, it just was like, why am I not? And I not. I feeling like I used to feel, right? Like it was kind of like redundant, but not in a bad way. Just kind of like, okay, here I go again because we used to do two seasons a year and then we did

tours and stuff like that. But then I was like, I also in a way got mad at myself because I was like, this is something I should be so grateful for. Like any person would want this job. So it was a battle. You know, I've been in therapy my whole life. Still am and I will till the day I die. And it has, it was a conversation I've had been my therapist for like close to a decade before I even pulled the trigger, to be quite honest. Wow. Yeah, that's kind of a confusing feeling. And I've been there with certain times and certain things. But like to feel like I should be grateful for this, but I'm feeling complacent with this.

Where what's going wrong and where is the point where I can like pinpoint what it is. Did you ever pinpoint what exactly it was? I don't think it's black and white like that. I think that, you know, when I got an offer to go to NBC and do, I can do that. That was a huge decision in itself. And I never thought that I was going to come back so soon or I never even know if I didn't even think that far ahead put it that way. But I think as soon as I started a new show with just new energy, I was like, oh, yeah. Okay.

So that kind of was like the fuel. And I was kind of like, and it wasn't anything to do with the show. Like the show treated us great. Like it treated, you know, it was a dream to be on Dancing with Stars. You know, I'm still like, I'm still shocked. The fact that I've been there. I was there for 26 seasons. And they were always so lovely welcoming me.

back with open arms, but it was just doing something different on a different show was like so refreshing and it was so, it was exactly what I needed. And I think what it was was that I needed to learn again. Like my brain felt kind of, I wasn't evolving and I don't like that. I'm not, I have to learn every single day. And I felt like I was teaching and teaching and teaching. But then I was like, oh, here we go again, another cha cha. And I was just like, I needed to feel also I needed to be reciprocated in a way. I don't know. Yeah. Well, it's tough to. Two, because you can't pick your partners. And each partner probably brought something different, either good or bad or nothing or something.

Like, you never know what you're going to get. There was always a lesson, for sure, with every single partner, regardless. I bet. I bet. And I'm sure, like, things changed over the seasons where, you know, TV always evolves and changes with the times. But do you have like a memory, you don't even have to say who, but of like a time where you were so challenged that you were like, I don't know if I could do this anymore early on? Oh, yeah. I bet all the time.

Not all the time. I mean, there was like, it was, it was early on in my Dancing with the Stars career. It wasn't like the first one or second season or any of that, but it was like, personalities, right? Like, you get it. It was interesting because there's a whole psychological thing that happens on Dancing with the Stars. And it's as a woman and as a woman professional dance teacher telling a man what to do. And it's my way or no way is what we're trying to say in a nice way. But then eventually you're just like, it is my way or no way, right?

Yeah, we get it. Yeah, cool. But we're a team, you know, and I think for me, it's when somebody does, when I feel like my partner doesn't trust me or like I'm being questioned, I think maybe it's just my energy or like, I don't know what it is, but then I don't feel safe in the partnership. And then that, for me, it becomes a very tough season when that happens. That's very valid and very fair because that was like, that's usually my advice to whoever goes on the show is like just surrender to. Just shut up. Yeah, it truly, it is so much. better when you just shut up and no it is though I wanted to fight Artem on so many things and like

tell him and at the end of the day I'm like nothing else matters except for him trying to get what's best out of both of us and if I just shut up and listen I'm going to get more out of this than if I just try and back talk him all the time like it really right right right you guys are the professionals so after that many seasons of doing something you're like I think I know what I'm saying yeah I think it's also it's a fine line like I evolved so much just as a communicator Right. Like, because you really have to adapt to the person you're dancing with. Like, all of these, like, technical terms mean nothing to you guys. And it really doesn't. If I say cha, cha, cha, or if I say hips, hips, whatever gets you on the rhythm, like, that's all that matters, right?

The quality of movement. But we also understand, too, that there's a time crunch. If we'd had, if we didn't, if we had two weeks before, three weeks before every dance, you could totally, we would want to hear about your opinion on things, you know. But the turnaround. is so fast. And you know, this is what I think every pro knows. It's like the quicker we can get in your body, the better it is. Yeah. And the better for everybody.

But like you said, you're doing two seasons a year, which is insane on top of touring. So who was Cheryl when she wasn't on dancing with the stars? Like when you got home, who is that part of like you're not growing? I don't think there was a time when I didn't have a day off. Like there was no day off. But there was times where the camera wasn't rolling. And I was Cheryl, the party girl. I was a ballroom dancer by day and a club goer by night.

I literally TMZ labeled me as dancing with the bars, which I still need to write a book about. It's so funny. Dancing with the bars? What? Because you'd like to go to a bar after? After seven nights. I'm not kidding. I was out seven nights a week, Caitlin.

Wow. Really? I didn't know that. I guess I didn't think like that was seven days a week. I was on TMZ every day, every morning. It was like, here she is. Here she is to the point where like Conrad was like our EP was like maybe find the back. door. I was like, backdoor front door. They're there. Always. Always. Constantly.

T.M.Z is cut throat. Oh, crazy. So, and did, oh, my gosh, were you in the era of mean Perez Hilton? Oh, yeah. But I was in the era of, like, Lindsay Lohen, Paris Hilton. Like, we were, like, I was out. Like, this was a full-time job at night. Like, and then I, the only reason why I could do it again was because I sweat it out during the day. Wow. So you were just very high functioning. Big time. Big time. That was a scary part. How many hours of sleep would you get? I don't know. None. I mean, like a couple hours. I don't understand where the stamina came. I mean, I understand. I was young. I never went to college. I went straight from like, you know, my competitive professional life when I was living in Harlem with my

partner to dancing with the stars, never drank or anything. Like, I was living like an Olympian. So it was like a get out of jail free card. And I was able to like, what? I could get into a club. Like I could just get into a club and get free drinks. Like this was amazing. Yeah, I mean, it was when I was sober. They were, people were like, are you okay? So it was like, you know, that's confusing. I guess it should just be a little wonky, I guess. People like me better this way. And I felt like my alcoholism helped me be more social, which was just an excuse, obviously. I feel like it's like the escape. Alcohol could be such an escape for people. Yeah, it's numbing. And it's, I've even had to look at myself a few times to be like, am I doing this because I'm trying to escape.

something or am I doing this because I actually enjoy a glass of wine with the meal that I just made or with my friends. It's so it's it's a slippery little slope and you could convince yourself of anything. Yeah. And I do it now through productivity. So it's like it's always, it's constant, right? So it's like anything but to stay still and feel my feelings, please. Like I am, I'm busy. Yeah. I have been there. Yeah. That's, I mean, that is so many people. We all have our coping mechanisms. Sometimes it's alcohol. sometimes it's working, sometimes it's sleeping. That's a big one actually for me. A coping mechanism is when I don't want to feel.

I can shut my brain off and sleep. I wish I could do that. I know. But then I'm like, then I'll shut down all the time. But did sobriety, because now obviously, how many years are you sober now? Seven and a half, almost eight years. Congratulations. Thank you.

I have a few sober people in my life and I know, I know the one day at a time. I know the mentality. I know the work and effort. And I know that that's also like such a huge. accomplishment. And I'm sure sobriety has changed your perspective and outlook on so many things. And something I wanted to know was, did sobriety change the way you viewed relationships? It changed everything, Caitlin. Everything. Yeah. I didn't even, I mean, the relationship I had with myself, you know, when I was an alcoholic, I was running away from myself. Like, I didn't know who I was.

I wasn't comfortable being alone. I wasn't, you know, I, my friends changed. I mean, everything in my life. Once I got clearer, I mean, look, I did a full, I just, I left a show that so many people would still be there if they were me. You know what I mean? Like, I left my life, my whole life, not just my show. I divorced my ex-husband and I'd left Los Angeles, like all in one year. And that, do you think that was from getting clear? Like, that was the, yeah, wow. It was also from years of, I mean, it's not again, black and white, but it's like, but yes, because I had to, I had no choice. I had nothing to numb with. You know, I had no choice but to kind of be the person who I am striving to be. And that wasn't what that was at that time to be where I was, you know. I'm just so proud of

you because it does force you to confront so many parts of yourself that you've been avoiding. Again, is this all parts? Is there like something specific? You're like this part the most? Or is it just so many things you've confronted with your own self from getting sober and having more clear mind? It was just like, how can I give back to myself? How can I? What are the steps I need to take in order to actually be able to look at myself in the mirror and be like, I like, I like you. You know, I actually like the person I see. It was almost as if, like, I had a realization that, you know, everything that I had preached, everything that I've talked about in therapy, all my morals, values, and beliefs, I was completely ignoring during that time, you know, when I was in a marriage or when I was on that show, there are certain.

things that I would just let slide by and that's not that doesn't necessarily help when it comes to self-love or self-respect you know it's you kind of have to put boundaries up and this is something I'm just learning it's like what are those boundaries and and how much do you sacrifice of yourself to please others or to be in this bubble that people are labeling you as Cheryl Burke as a dancer like I'm more than a dancer and I'm not saying that I'm above that No, but I, there was so much more of me that I just felt like, you know, thank you so much for your service and thank you for allowing me to showcase just a little bit of me on Dancing with the Stars and it's time to move forward and move on. Also, after 26 seasons, what more can I do? Is that, that's got to be some sort of record that you hold for being like the long. It's still. It's still a record. Yeah, it's got to be. That's so wild. Like, and of course, like with walking away from certain things in life, come. grief. Did you grieve dancing with the stars or were you just so ready?

I, like I said, I just stopped like a month ago. Yeah. So, okay, so talk to me about how like, I just feel like so many women attach their identity to so many roles in life, like either their career, their relationship, being a mom. And when that changes, I feel like you kind of disappear. But in your case, I feel like you kind of found yourself, but I'm sure that's taken some time. I'm still finding myself, girlfriend. Yeah. Me too. I wake up every day and I'm like, what the hell? Why do I like makeup all of a sudden? Like what is happening here? I'm like doing like full on like the amount of hours I've spent just to learn how to do a wing liner. Like and I love watching your journey there. And I just, you know, but if you notice it's been a few things. Like it's like diamond painting with like a phase. You know, now I'm diamond painting my face and I'm like really into it. And I think the common denominator is that I just love to learn. Like I'm just learning. And I love to share it. And I'm like to share it. Yeah, and there is a creative outlet to all of this. And this was the lesson.

Don't ever define yourself with anything outside of yourself. Because your identity comes from within. It doesn't come from the amount of Mirabal trophies you won. It doesn't come from your job. Because why? Because that is not, nothing is forever. Nothing. Nothing.

So it's like if you were hard to like, but that's hard though. Because I also didn't know any different. you know and it was just it happened so like I don't think anyone understands the day that I was retiring the same day the last the finale right of that season I was hyperventilating I was crying I was like I'm making the worst decision of my life it was the hardest yet quickest decision in a way where it was like yeah you're done like that this is it and I still sometimes wonder if I made the worst mistake of my life like you know Of course. Like you said, I was there for half my life. Well, and you've seen the changes of the show.

You've seen it go up and the ratings go down and now they're back up and then you question. But it's also changed. The whole show has changed. And in a way, it's like I would have not fit in anymore. It's just the way it is because we all evolve. Shows evolve. People evolve. And I think I left at a perfect time. Because, yeah, it's like I think that's kind of the tough thing about, you know, careers in general. But as women, I feel like we or maybe this is just personal.

but I feel like they keep getting younger and then I keep getting older and then I feel like. Yeah. Yeah. And then I start being like is my worth based on like where I'm at. And then it's like, no, that's such a I'm growing. Like you use the word evolving. It's my favorite word to use. And that comes with change.

And that's okay. You don't have to always be in with the 20 year olds and the young. And you can let that show keep doing its thing and evolving. And we can do the same in our own other worlds. That was what I was saying. I was like either I'm going to make this decision or they're going to make it for me soon. So it's like I just, you know, and maybe that's ego based. But really I just, like I said, this was something I felt even prior to that day.

This was years in the making. And I also, you know, I felt like I was doing myself a disservice by continuing to do something just because I think I should be doing it or because of the paycheck or whatever. Like really, I think when you start to feel comfortable is when you need to take a second look. and just be like, okay, well, is this what I want to feel like? That's when you start to feel stagnant. That's when you start to feel. It's just becomes an experience that maybe is time to just move on from. Yeah.

I mean, that's always my favorite advice is it's like I used to manifest certain things. And I used to manifest. Well, I still do manifest like a paycheck. But like when I manifest now, it's more of like, how do I want to feel more than what do I have? And maybe that's because I've like accomplished things. I've always dreamt of and I should be very proud of that. But it for some reason is very challenging to not want the next thing, you know, to not want the next big career move or this big successful relationship that's on social media. And like I question a good point that I'm taking away from

this and something you said is the validation has to come from within you. It's like I know that. We all need to be reminded of it. That's always the lesson. But that's the lesson with everyone that's alive to this day. Yes. Like, I think we're, no matter what. we manifest, whatever is outside of ourselves and what we want, the comparison, the money, it's still not going to make you happy. Like, period. I think that is what is the lesson. Like, I would say as a community of human beings, right, I believe that we always think

that that person's life's better because they have the money, they've got the social media relationship. In actuality, you know, I was just saying this to somebody I was interviewing recently. I was like, for me, it's contentment. That's my goal is to be content. And I've never felt so much contentment in a consistent amount of time like I've been feeling. And whether that has to do with the fact that I'm not in a relationship or whatever, it doesn't matter. The drama has kind of left my aura.

Your aura. Which is something I used to strive off of. Like I was in fight, flight, or freeze. And that was all I knew since I was a little girl. Is it just a combination of things? that has taught your body to get out of that because I often feel I my therapist always she made me printed out actually it's the window of tolerance and you're supposed to live in this window of tolerance where you are content and above it is like fight or flight and then below it is numbing

and like pushing things down and just escaping and disassociating and she taught me years ago that I do not know how to live in the place the window of tolerance and just having that visual in front of me helped so much because I went oh my God. God, why am I, what does it feel like to live here? Okay, I'm very much the kind of dog mom who likes to stay stocked up on everything. Food, treats, toys, whatever it is. I just, I always want the boys to have what they need without me having to think all the time about it. Which is obviously why I use chewy because it makes everything so easy.

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531, 2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BEDMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with I Gaming, Ontario. Now, you obviously went through a very public divorce and I'm sure you're so sick of talking about it, but it's more about the lesson in it, I guess, and, you know, losing a person, was it something to you? Because I always ask people, should I say congratulations or I'm sorry? Because it's, I don't know sometimes. Was it something for you that you were like, no, this is good?

Or were you like, this is going to be very hard to lose this person? Of course, it's both. You know, it can be both. But going back to what you were saying, which I will then get to your question and answer it, I truly believe that we are addicted to the high of drama, right? And that's what I was addicted to and that I would like to say I am no longer addicted to it. It was that in your nervous system, you know, that anxiety, that constant, whether you want to call it adrenaline or whatever it is, it's just, not sustainable, right? It'll turn into sickness. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I always saw, like, when my mom remarried my stepdad, they have such a easy relationship. And I was like, wow, that's boring, right? So I was like, that must be real boring. You know, like, I don't want that. I don't want to live, like, just too calm people, like being able to communicate without fighting. Like, where's the passion there? You know, and it's like, no, that's ass backwards, Cheryl. You've got it all wrong. And so I had to learn to, first of all, I had to be like contentment. It's not boring. So that's

not boring, right? Feeling balanced. I don't like to use the word balance because I don't believe in it. But feeling not in my nervous system, not feeling like high and then low and then high is actually, it's okay to feel just even healed. Like it's okay. It's okay. And I had to train myself that that was a good thing. So you're not alone with that. Yeah. It is training. It really is retraining your brain. and it's, it works. I mean, I now feel like I am able to look at that chart and go, oh, wow, I'm doing it. It changed me physically as a person, too. Every time I've gone through a breakup in my life, even if I thought it was the worst thing that's ever happened to me, even if I thought I can't wait, this is the best thing.

I always physically looked and felt brighter and lighter and just a different, I showed up differently, how I carry myself, how I eat, how I train skin. skin, everything, everything. I shed weight because of it. It makes so much sense to me, not a lot of people, I know. No, I know, but it makes sense because that women hang on to stress in their bodies so much. Yes. And alcohol, think of the alcohol. Like, yeah, it's a real thing. It's a real thing. Are you kidding? Like everything that I felt, like, I see old pictures of miso tides and I'm like, oh my God, I was just miserable. And I mean, I know most people, think that I looked better back then, but whatever. At the end of the day, I know that I was, I was detoxing. Like the sweaty pictures you see of me was not like, because I just finished

chasching. It's because Cheryl is detoxing, like in front of your eyes. And I was like either that or I was drinking more. And it was just like a constant battle that I was never going to win, ever. So it was just, it's interesting how people, you know, when you're judging a picture, obviously, or somebody's physical appearance, which happens a lot lately, especially. Whether or not people may think that, oh, you looked better back then or not, it's, you know you. Yeah. It's like for me, I was only able to be there at those parties and events because I was intoxicated the whole time. So what would showing up to a party look like for you now?

Because I know some people are just, you know, very confident in their sobriety. And some people are like, that's a path I choose not to go down because I don't even want to be in that room with that. Where are you at? I can definitely go. I mean, first of all, the difference is I'll be driving. I don't like, I have, like, all of a sudden I get car sick. So anybody that offers car service, thank you. But I actually can't.

I have to drive everywhere. That's what. Two, I don't live close by to L.A., right? So I live a couple hours away. But also, there is recently, actually, I was at a pre-super Bowl party in the Bay Area. And there was a moment where I was like, okay, this is not working for me anymore. And I think it was like as the night goes, as it gets later. And as, you know, I start to see people change a little bit from when I first saw them just a few hours ago until now.

That's, I think that I just need to know I need to set boundaries because I can't just stick it out. Like I can just easily get an Uber and leave. So I did that. And you just feel it. Like I felt it was just no longer. I was not supposed to be there anymore. Yeah. That's, I mean, if I could only see those times too, but I'm the one in the corner being like, we're here.

I would say that I'm actually so fun to hang out with. I'm just like, I feel like I'm more outgoing now than ever. Because I was so shy. Like I was so, I know it's really hard to imagine this now, but I didn't tell you. Like, I couldn't do an interview. I couldn't talk. I have to tell you. I'm like a cat.

I've lived in nine different lives. I don't know. I mean, I know who that little girl is and I love her to death. But like she had zero, she, me. I had zero confidence. I couldn't even like say. my name without stuttering. I was just very much a follower, not a leader by any means. So doing a show like this was really scary. You know, I had just turned pro. I never taught,

let alone like would actually take the lead on anything. Because back in the competitive days, where I came from, it was a man's world. I don't know if it's like that now. I don't think it is. But it was never about like, Cheryl, what do you think about this? Or what's your favorite color? I didn't know my favorite color was. Like, I didn't know anything. So whenever I would drink, it would help me come out of my show. Yeah. I think a lot of people have those beliefs. And then that obviously leads to a dangerous path for something. And I do want to talk about just the body image, the aging, the public scrutiny.

Like, how do we move away from this? How do we tell women to stop doing this? You can't. What is that? You just have to mind your own business. I have to actually, I mean, my therapist, and this is universally, people say this a lot. But it's hard to really practice. whatever they say about you is none of our business. It's none of our business.

But it's hard when it is our business on social media and then they're like, oh, I can't imagine. I just went off on a few people today. Like, come on. Like, it's hard. Of course, I'm human. It's hard to not react and to respond if you're going to, the best thing to do is just not respond or react. But like, I'm human. And how are you going to tell me when I post a picture of myself from 2012 completely wasted, They say that I look better then. Are you kidding? I know. Like, they have no idea.

And then they compare you to a 22 year ago photo of when you were... 21. I'm 41. Comparing 41-year-old version to a younger version of herself. I would like to see their pictures 20 years ago. Me too. But also, I really, I hope one day I can just not stoop down to that level. I know.

Oh, I'm one of those when they go low, I will stoop to their level. I will get right there with them. It's an interesting battle. within for me because it's kind of like, you know, being sexually abused when I was little girl, not necessarily like speaking up for myself. And then now the woman I am today speaks up for herself like a little much. Like there is a gray area, right? But I think it triggers that little girl in me where it's like, no, speak up for yourself. Like you need to defend yourself because no one else is going to defend you. So then there is that. I think that's what I battle with. Yeah,

because there's criticism at all angles for me for you, well, for a lot of. of people, but, you know, you've been dealing with this for a very, very long time. So it's almost like, I'm glad you handle criticism with a little, like, extra oomph because of for, like, your little Cheryl, of course. But you're right. It is like them, why? Like, what for, you know, like, why are we giving these people who obviously have not worked on their own inner demons the power to criticize our looks when we feel our best? I mean, we're clearly triggering them, right? It's a trigger. That's why they feel the need to hide behind their screen and, do whatever they need to do because there's something in them that they're not happy with that

when they see us or whatever it is, it's making them so hot and bothered. They can't control themselves. And so whatever that is, whatever it is, I don't know, not my business. And not my business. Good point. I've got to keep reminding myself of that. Same. How do you handle the feedback or criticism now compared to 20 years ago? Oh, no, it ruined me 20 years ago. I would just, I drank myself to death. Like, yeah, but I had that, right? And when I say that I drank myself to death, like I was, this is before Uber's, okay? So it was like, probably shouldn't have been driving and shouldn't have been parting as hard as possible to not feel.

Because like, let me tell you something. This whole scrutiny when it comes to like, she's too fat for TV, that was the worst day in my life the day. This wasn't even day. It's still, it's still like in my identity is a part of it. Just like that feeling of just, it was like I turned on KTLA randomly. When I was living at the palazzo when I was, you know, the palazzo by the girl. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's where we would be stationed, right? Yeah. As dancers who didn't live there at the time. And all of a sudden, here I see my name, Cheryl Burke, Too Fat for TV, question mark. And it's like, and then my mother would call me. And she's like, are you okay? you are you pregnant? I'm like, what? Mom? You know, and then she started like, it was, it was addicting message boards. This was before social media too. So like, she would get really into it.

And I was like, you got to stop. You can't, you can't tell me what these people are saying. Like, yeah. And so, and then that was it. That was the beginning of the end. And I think just on a mental health level, it was, it destroyed me. It took away the Cheryl Burke that joined Dancing of the or second and third season. Like it took it all away, the joy. Gosh, I don't even, like, I know you've been in therapy since you were younger, you said. Five. Is that like, I mean, there must be some sort of proof of that working to actually, not that you got through them with ease by any means, but you got through them. Like, you are able to be now in, in this new era of your life where you feel joy again, you feel excitement, you feel clear, you feel like you want to, you know, have

creative outlets and do it in the right way. Obviously, that therapy stuck for you in some way or another. What do you think it was that got you through everything? I think because I'm so open with my life, whether people want to say it's oversharing or not. I know for a fact that, you know, I'm sharing with what I feel comfortable sharing, right? So, and by no means, do I share everything? There's so many things that people don't know about, you know, that I maybe will share one day, maybe not. It doesn't matter. Regardless, what I have shared, I know it's helped so many people because I see it. And that for me is the reason why I'm not to be dramatic, but is the reason why I'm not dead. Yeah. Because I think my purpose is this, is the reason why I did Dancing

on the Stars, though I couldn't talk in the beginning, but I have been an open book. And I also think this is why maybe some people find my weight loss offensive because they think that I'm hiding something from them because I have been so open with my life. But then again, I can just throw it back too and be like, yeah, why would I hide anything when I have been so open with my life? Like there's nothing to hide in that sense. Yeah, everyone needs

answers. And if it's not the answer that they've been looking for, they don't believe it. And then they'll scrutinize until And it's a trigger for them. They think you're going to like cave or something to be like, okay, fine, I did this. And it's like, they're waiting. Every post I could feel it. They're just like, oh, this is the confessional. This is the confession.

Yeah. And you just There's something about your spirit, I guess, that's changed in the last, I don't know, I'm sure it's since you got sober, but also I just see it on social media. Every time there's just something lighter about you that feels like you're really in the era of you and what matters to you and what is bringing you joy. And I'm just like excited to know what you're excited about right now. Sephora? Yes.

Talk to me about Sephora. The Sephora squad. I know. Like, would you add me? If you told me this two years ago, I'd be like, I'm part of a cheerleading squad? Like, what is Sephora Squad? What is this stuff? Yeah, tell me about it.

The one thing I do, not regret, but I wish I would have been this curious about makeup when I was sitting in those chairs at Dancing with the Stars with the Hair and Makeup team. You know, I wish I was, but I was just one big stress ball, worried about my next dance. But, uh, Sephora Squad. Okay, so I, I would say this has been a passion of mine, just learning how to apply makeup on a face where it's about, enhancing and not hiding. So like I've only worn stage makeup. I've only known which is a lot. I've only known how to make your eyes look bigger, how to make you look like you have a six-pack. I can do all that. But I don't think I've ever embraced the actual

skin that I was born with from the color of the skin. Yeah, your beautiful freckles. Right. I always wanted to hide the freckles. I always, it was always about transforming makeup, not enhancing. So I think I've been really about discovering, you know, who I am underneath it all, though it may look from the outside in that I'm just like, turn into this materialistic. No, I'm just discovering, like, what does it mean to enhance my features? What does it mean to really own the person I, I really am? Like, what does that look like? It looks so fun and it looks confident and expressive for you. It's, to me, makeup is a creative outlet if you, especially when you're doing it to enhance and not hide. But also I'm 41.

Yeah. No, but like my skin has changed. Like, drastically. Like, I never washed my face on Dancing with the Stars. What? I would, I never. My version of washing my face was this. Like, one, like, or two makeup wives.

And my eyelashes being thrown on Laurel and Mahaland every single time. And then you just pile it back on the next time? Well, they would. Yeah. But when we had results shows. I mean, I never washed my face. It looked like someone murdered somebody. in my bed because I never washed the tan off.

Like, it was just like, and so this is why people think I bleached my skin because they only know me with spray tan. Oh, the people think you bleached your skin? Oh, they're like, oh, she used to be Asian. Hey, fun fact, still am. I'm still Asian. I'm just a different color. I'm actually me now.

So. They spray tan the shit out of you on that show. And also, I remember. Yes. Yes. I remember Hannah Brown telling me she was like, I thought my spray time was gone until the show was over and then I would shower and then not getting it every week. She was like, I was just constantly spray-tanned.

And yeah, that makes sense that that was your life. That was your job. You were spray-tanned every week. I went to sunset tan. Like, I wasn't in a tanning bed until the day I retired. One day I hope I can embrace my natural skin. I'm the spray-tank queen over here. I do it every way.

No, no, this is a spray tan. Your arms? Actually, no, I'm due- I have a spray tan. You're under there, right there. I have a spray tan coming tonight because of this. Okay, I feel like I've got a lot of vinos out there who are in healthcare, nurses, doctors, estheticians, and I know you guys are on your feet all day, constantly moving, taking care of

everyone else. So when I find something that I'm like, okay, this actually makes your life a lot easier and you still feel good in it, I got to share it, which is the figs. Fig scrubs are made for real life. They're lightweight, they're breathable, stretchy, anti-microbial, basically designed to keep up with long shifts, back-to-back patients, and everything in between. But what I will say stands out, well, to me, I guess, personally, is the fit. These are not just like old school boxy scrubs.

They're tailored. They're really flattering and come in really cute styles and colors with pockets and details that actually make sense for your day. And I've heard so many of you who wear figs and swear by them. So apparently once you try them, you don't go back. I've even worn them and I'm not in the biz. I would 100% recommend them if you're in that world. You guys work so freaking hard and you deserve to feel comfortable and confident while

you're doing it, okay? And I love anything that makes your day just a little more cozy too. So whether you're in the ER at a clinic or grabbing a coffee after your shift, do it in Figs. Right now, if you go to WearFigs.com and use the code FigsRX, you can get 15% off your first order. That's WearFigs.com promo code FigsRX. I like this era of makeup for you because I also enjoy watching people do makeup. I don't care who they are and what they're doing. I go into a trance when I watch people do their makeup.

But I also don't know what being part of the squad means. Okay. Okay. So either did I. This was like, I was just stumbling around. Like, my algorithm is nothing to do with dancing anymore. It's all makeup tutorials. And when I tell you, I spent hours watching the same tutorial from some of these makeup gurus. There's like three or four that I'm like, Katelyn, I'm obsessed. I don't think if Brad Pitt were to walk by me versus like Hung Van Gogh.

Do you even know who Hung Van Gogh is? No. He's this incredible makeup artist. I would die if I saw Hung Van Gogh. I'd be like move on. Move over Brad Pitt. Yeah, I wouldn't care less. I am a super fan.

And it's just and I watch endless hours and hours of the same damn tutorial and I try it and I'm like loving it. And I just, I don't know who I am. But I know who I am. But this is interesting, right? It's just fascinating. Anyway, Sephora Squad. So Sephora, I guess, has done this for like maybe the last six, seven years. And they pick about 20 to 25 people who all have obviously unique stories, backgrounds, and that I guess the common denominator is obsessed with makeup and all things beauty.

But the meaning behind it is not just because they're obsessed with materialistic things. It's more about like your story. So they choose out of like hundreds and thousands of applicants from all over the world. Oh. Yeah. And they choose like maybe 20 to 30 people. And I just applied. I didn't even know that this existed until one of these makeup, Instagram people I follow was like petitioning.

She was like, I know this is really sounds so stupid, but can you please do a like a review or whatever it is a testimonial of me going into the Sephora Squad? People try out every year like for sometimes 10 years in a row until they actually get chosen. And I was like, what is Sephora Squad? So I just Googled and I was like, oh, this is. is an actual thing. And I was like, wait, is this for people who like, I just felt like kind of out of place because I was like, you know, I've been on television before, but it's just so different. And I'm genuinely excited. So I was like, you know what? This whole experience has been so humbling. And it also has really been like, I'm starting over, Caitlin. Like, you know,

I don't care how many followers I have. It's not about that. It's like I am straight up starting my life over again. And right now it happens to be in the beauty space. But I do believe that there is something missing in the beauty space, which is women really embracing their age and really embracing whatever changes are happening in our bodies. Which for me, I'm definitely going through paramedipause. My skin is changing daily. Randomly, I'll have like a heat stroke and I will look like the Phantom of the Opera, you know, and it's just like, I don't know what, how, I don't think there's enough conversation around

this in general. And also, if it wasn't for this, I think I would still be doing my makeup. And there's nothing wrong with it, but I would still be doing stage makeup. You know, because that's all I know. Yeah, no, it's so different. And it must be so fun because, again, you're creative and I'm sure you enjoy now connecting with people in new ways. With different people, yeah.

Yeah, different people, different audience and how you show up on social media and embracing certain things that are going to make other people feel better. What is your favorite makeup product right now that you couldn't live without? Girl, I don't think you understand. Let me just, hold on. What? Let me just give you a little tour really quick. Are you ready?

Are you ready? Ready? Oh my gosh. I don't think you understand. Oh, wow. Yeah, you're really in a makeup. I have like, I have like, I have mini Sephora here. Oh, I want to go shopping in there.

I'm a makeup collector or more like a hoarder, one of the two. It's so organized, though. I know. Well, I'm also OCD. Hi. Wait, that's so fun. I literally want to go in there. So you probably can't answer that question because you're like, I don't, you have millions of products.

My favorite product, okay, so I will answer the question. So my favorite product as of now is the YSL. There's this new foundation that you can only get it in Europe. But it's the YSL foundation, but the glowy version of it. So, but for some reason they haven't sold it here in the States. So I've been like doing some major herod's damage lately. Okay. Love that.

But yes. Also, I am still in the process of testing out Mary Phillips's new foundation serum. It's got a weird smell to it. But I've been since I've been sober, it, I, my smell, my senses are better than my dog's senses. So like, I literally smell, like, anything that is smells, like not, like, not perfume or like cologne. Yeah. It's hard for me to put on my face. Interesting.

But the actual formula itself is great. Wow. Well, yeah, she's a genius. Oh, I wanted her to do my face so bad. Me too. I've always wanted her too. Okay. This is what we're ending with.

A quick rapid fire session. Are you ready? Okay. Yes. What is your biggest red flag? If you're already dating, I don't know if you're dating or going on dates, but like moving forward, what is your biggest red flag when dating? Anyone who's indecisive. Good one.

What would be your biggest green flag in somebody? Somebody, well, I like old school. So somebody who is like intentionally opening the door for you or like makes eye contact with you when talking. I just, yeah, like somebody who actually cares more about, you know, the person that they're, with rather than just themselves. I always say the bar is in hell. Like that's what we're like, hey, someone who does the bare minimum. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Someone who actually like responds to you. Yeah. Somebody who gives me respect. Is that too much to ask for? Yeah.

I know, right. Okay. What brings you peace right now? Make up. I love that. But it's not up for vanity. Again, it sounds so, like it sounds so vain. It doesn't to me.

There's something very meditated. Like it's just, it really gets me in a trance. I actually feel when I'm in the mood to get ready, I actually love doing my makeup because I do feel like there's something like therapeutic but also satisfying about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As long as you're doing it for the right reason. If you guys want like good makeup, everyone's like, give me a five minute makeup. No, sorry, I'm the wrong person to do this with like, no, makeup takes time. I'm the right person. I can show you a five minute routine. That's how I do my makeup is in five minutes. Good for you. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how you can do that. It's all about light layering. Oh, yeah. It seems. You But then my makeup's gone in like an hour and I probably didn't do it properly. So there you go. Because you only gave yourself five minutes. Okay. What version of yourself are you the most proud of?

The sober version. I'm really proud of you too. The sober self and the woman that actually likes what she sees in the mirror for once. Love that. Oh, Cheryl. This is why I wish it was in person so I could give you a hug. Oh, your hug. I love that, though, because, I mean, it's never too late for anyone to feel that version of

themselves and I just love that you're showing up online to talk about it and that's part of like, I was just talking to somebody about this, how when people show up like that online, it's so refreshing because so many of us show up in a highlight real way, but so many people don't. And we get to choose who we follow and it's always nice to follow the real ones, you know? Absolutely. But I also want to just say that it's not perfect. My life isn't perfect. And it took a lot of struggle to get here.

Like, and because I chose this path, you know, it was hard. It's hard still. I wake up and I'm like, what the hell am I doing? And why do I own so many blushes? Like, what is going on with me? You know? Yeah. I don't wake up and think that, but I wake up and think what the hell am I doing a lot of times, yes.

Well, right. And I always question like, am I lost? And did I make the wrong decision? It's like, we can just kill ourselves with these questions. But at the end of the day, we are here and we are here today. And whatever that is, whatever path you chose, it's like you just have to keep moving forward and try and stay present. but not go back to the past because there's nothing we can do now, right? Like, there really isn't regardless. So, like, what is anxiety? It's like stressing about the past and worrying about the future

that hasn't even happened yet. So it's like, why do we do that to ourselves is the question. Spoken like a true sober queen, living in the moment. That's why I don't. I try. I mean, I wish I could take my own advice. But as long as you're trying and you're aware of it and you're clear on that every single day. Well, I'm proud of you. I feel like everything you've accomplished, whether that is honestly like sometimes rock bottom you accomplished getting out of it. Sometimes you accomplish like having this new fun adventure in your life where you still get to be creative and you're part of the Sephora squad. Like everything that you've done, you continue to evolve and prove to yourself that you are worthy.

And it's just like even what's going on with people trolling your appearance. Like you're still just proving that you are just showing up as you and you're always going to grow and they are not. So I love you and I'm proud of you. And I really am glad we got to podcast. today. Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows. You swear? If I'm lying, I'm dying.

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and Anything and Everything, Taylor Swift. We're two sisters who make no apologies for our love of pop culture and the fact that A-Listers might mean more to us than each other. Join us on your favorite podcast app every Wednesday for Pop Apologists. Pop Apologists, your new favorite sister and celeb podcast.