Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - David Archuleta | What Happened After American Idol: Leaving the Mormon Church & Coming Out!

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

#940. At 16, David Archuleta was living out what looked like a dream on American Idol…But behind the scenes, he was hiding who he really was — from the world, from his faith, and even from himself.In this episode, David opens up about growing up Mormon while questioning his sexuality, being engaged to women while knowing he was attracted to men, and the emotional toll of living a double life. He shares what it was like navigating fame at such a young age with a controlling “dadager” — his father who managed every part of his career.This is a raw conversation about identity, pressure, family dynamics, and what it really costs to live authentically!If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE!Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these AMAZING deals!Zenni: Go to zenni.com/PODCAST and use code PODCAST15 for 15% off your first order. Direct Tv: Go to directv.com/genrepacks and sign up today to get MyEntertaiment for just $34.99 a month.Merit Beauty: Right now, Merit Beauty is offering our listeners their Signature Makeup Bag with your first order at MERITbeauty.com.Boll & Branch: Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bollandbranch.com/vine15, code vine15.Apartments.com: The place to find a placeEPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: (07:40) Feeling pressure to be a teenage heartthrob on American Idol while questioning his attraction to women(32:00) How Jennette McCurdy encouraged him to finally tell his story(43:36) Why he compares his childhood to Michael Jackson — and feeling like he had to stay a kid around his dadSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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shipping at B-O-L-L-L-A-N-D branch.com slash Vine-15, codevine-15, and Apartments.com, the place to find a place. You're listening to Off the Vine with Caitlin Bristow. Hey, Vino's, real quick, if you are listening right now, which obviously you are, you wouldn't be hearing this, can you hit the subscribe or follow button on whatever platform you're on? Please, that one simple thing helps more than you even realize it allows me to keep growing on this podcast and making these episodes.

and making these episodes the best they can possibly be obviously for you. That's the only favorite I'm going to ever ask, okay? It truly means the world to me. Thank you. Now let's get into it. Hey, everybody, welcome Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow. David Artiletta became a household name when he was just 16 years old and 17.

I guess he had a birthday on it. From American Idol, this incredibly talented, soft-spoken kid with one of those voices that you just do not forget. If you haven't seen it, look it up. You also probably know his song Crush, but what people didn't see was everything happening behind the scenes. The pressure, the control from his father, from his church, the identity struggles, the reality that he was living that didn't fully feel like his. So in his new memoir, Devout, losing my faith to find myself, he really goes there. He opens up about growing up Mormon, hiding his sexuality, navigating fame at a really young age, and ultimately having to make the kind of choices that completely change. your life and not without a lot of heavy consequences. So this episode is really about identity,

about what it costs to be yourself, and what happens when you finally decide that you can't live for other people and you have to live for yourself? Really, really valuable messaging in this podcast today. I loved it. So please welcome David. Your story is not what people think it is. Like, I love that you're writing a book about your truth because I think that's so important to share. Like, not only for you, but I'm such a believer in generational trauma and like, you're like a cycle breaker. You're breaking the cycle of what, you know, your generational trauma has been. And I think those people are really powerful. So I appreciate you sharing your story.

And thank you. I think a lot of people still picture you as like the 16 year old American Idol, sweet, shy, insanely talented. But behind the scenes, I feel like you were dealing with so much at such a fragile age of 16 years old. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, 16 and then I was 17. I had a birthday when by the time it was like live. Okay.

17 was most of my American Idol experience. But like I was 16 when I audition. Right. And you were obviously like feeling intense pressure from your dad. You were feeling like you had to hide your sexuality, trying to give up a religion that didn't fully accept you because you grew up Mormon, right? Yeah, I did. I saw you've had a couple of the Montock girls on your dogass.

Do you watch the show? I do. You do? Yeah, I was trying to catch up on the newest season this week because one of my friends I'm writing with here here also. So I used to live in Nashville. I lived here for eight years. Oh, wow. And a lot of my book, I came out while I was living in Nashville. Okay. And one of my friends who's going to be stopping by, she helped me, she was like one of my pillars when I was in like my lowest of lows. And I talk about that in the book too. But one of my friends that I met, we were both Mormon going to church here in now. Nashville. Yeah, she's like, we have to watch it. So I was like, okay, and we've gotten really, even though it stresses me out watching it. Okay. I was going to ask because it's like probably, well, first of all, it's not only like such a stressful show because there's so much drama and like there's a lot going on in the headlines with them and then you watch it differently when you see different things. But it's also like you also grew up Mormon so you understand the like the rebellious behavior. I think it's like, oh my God, I can't believe how rebellious.

are. And I think when you're like in the spotlight and when you have like a following and you have you have like a support system, you're able to deviate a little more. Like I'm like, I can't believe they're cussing and they're drinking and they're like doing all this stuff. I'm like, wow. Like it's because it's like so foreign to me because I did not grow up. That's not the Mormon way I grew up. Right. But like. Well, I don't think they did either. But then they just turned a corner. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's like, yeah, it's just kind of wild. But it's. I've become friends with Jesse and she is. I love her. I mean, you know, they're so messy, but they're so honest and so transparent. And I think Jesse's done so much great. Like, she started so many great conversations on the show. Intentional. She's been intentional because she's like, I want culture and I want people to talk about this

and realize this is how Mormons think and believe and live. Right. I want to challenge that a little bit. I want to shake it up. And it's been in such, I feel like in a lot of positive ways. I agree. She is a light. Yeah.

Yeah. She is. I agree. Like just even being around her in person is so much different from watching her on TV because I see her on TV and I go, what a wonderful person. And like, she is so honest and I love messy honest because I think that's so many people that just don't want to like acknowledge that. And then in person, I'm like, you are a bright, bright light. She is. Yeah.

I love that on TV. She's like, you see her nodding. like she's your Mac. She pushes the buttons a little bit. She does. In the person, she's just so, she's so intelligent. She's so smart. She's so business-minded as well.

But also just human connection is so important to her. Yes. So it's just like, oh, I love the about she. When I was doing my book tour, when I released my book, she came and hosted my bookstop in Salt Lake City. Oh, perfect. So it was just fun to talk with her. Especially like someone like that for you in Salt Lake City to just. You know, push the norm, I guess, there and talk honestly and openly about that.

To go through that, I mean, American Idol's very much like an overnight, like they chew you up, spit you out, kind of like whirlwind where all of a sudden you have all these followers and people invested in you and your story and your music. And when you're looking back at that version of yourself at 17 dealing with so many demons on the inside, like who you were versus what the world saw. Yeah. I mean, I know you can relate to that. I wanted to ask you about that. too, like coming from the reality TV world. Yeah. Or it's just suddenly you have, you're still yourself, but you aren't. Yeah. Really because like you are you, you still have your name, but you're in front of millions of people

and suddenly millions of people know who you are. Yeah. And you're in the hands of producers. Mm-hmm. And however they want to portray you. They want the audience too like you, but they also want drama. Yep. You know, I don't like when people are like, okay, that's the edit I got.

I'm going to lean into it. No, it's like show the world who you really are and be your authentic self and don't let a show shape you into who they think especially. I mean, I just can't imagine doing that at 17. I was 30 when I went into reality TV. So I was like in a very good headspace. I knew who I was. I had no shame. And then, I mean, the world tried to put shame on me for being myself.

But and that was hard. But I mean, I just keep putting myself in. I can't put myself in your shoes. But to be going through that at 17 while like trying to figure out who. you are and feeling pressure from family, like all those things. Like, who were you and who did the world think you were? How are those two people different? Yeah.

Okay. So for me, like I was a teenager and I was still in high school when it all happened and like millions of people and suddenly they wanted me to be this like teenage heartthrob. Yeah. And I wasn't ready to do that because deep down I knew that they wanted like girls to be obsessed with me and I was like, I don't know if I'm obsessed. It was girls. I don't know how into girls I am because I knew that I was, that I had feelings for other guys.

Yeah. But I felt like, okay, how do I fulfill this role? Because I was super Mormon, too. It's not like I could, it's not like I could experiment with my sexuality, especially in 2008. Right. Because while I was on American Idol, the church was having this huge movement. They were shooting American Idol in L.A. and in California, the church, like we would go to church and they would be announcing over the pulpit saying like, Prop 8, like we have to fight against that.

We have to fight for marriage. And there's like all these private donors sending tons of money. And my friends were talking and say, we have to defend marriage. We can't let gay marriage be a thing. Wow. So that was the impression I was getting. I'm like, oh, like, okay, this is bad. This is wrong.

But I'm like, so I'm like, so what do I make of myself? Like I didn't, I didn't think I have. had enough information to really understand who I was. So it's like I knew what I was feeling, but I didn't have the right resources to understand. Is it okay to be? All I had was like church. Like church is your source of truth and that's what you follow. And my church was telling me, gay people are bad.

So even if they're like, well, we like gay people. We just don't like what they do. So it was just like, it was confusing. And so it's like, don't let them get married. Don't let them be in relationships. but we have empathy for them. We sympathize for them. So it was just confusing.

It's almost in like a pity way. Like we pity them. Like poor them, they don't know their truth or what's right or from wrong. Yeah. Like one day they will repent and choose to live a straight life. And that's what I tried doing until I was 30 years old. You know, just five years ago I came out.

God, I'm so proud of you. Yeah. Thank you. They really am. It's, oh, and I came out while I was in Nashville. So it's been. kind of weird being back. I was like, oh my gosh.

Like, well, it's such a pivotal place for you. Yeah. Because I was trying so hard to be, like, in my book, I talk about how I got engaged three times to women because I was trying to three different times, not, not all on site. You know, being Mormon, like, oh, what, three women? You're, you're trying. And I was in, I was living in Nashville when I got engaged to those three times.

Wow. So it's, and, you know, there's the last time where I was just like, oh, my God, like, I can't. I know this is what I was counseled to do to kill myself. And I'm like, this is not, it's not right. I'm like, this is the third time I've tried. And I'm just, I'm just learning the hard way that what they're teaching me isn't true. Right. Like, this isn't going to fix me.

Is it the women you were with ever have a feeling or like later in life were they like we knew? I talked to all of them. You do. Because I was like, I had to be honest. I love that. But the problem was that I, the way I was looking at. at it at first was the way that I was being taught. Because like when I first came out, I was like, okay, I'm, I think I'm gay. Yeah. And my church leaders would say, you're not gay. You just

struggle with same-sex attraction. And there's a difference. If you say you're gay, you're admitting to your sin. But if you say you struggle with same-sex attraction, you're acknowledging the feelings, but you're not giving in to them. So you're still being obedient. You're still good with God. And that's how they would say it. So I'm like, oh, so if I give into the feelings, feelings I'm bad. So I'm a sinful person. I mean, that's what you're, I mean, that's what they were telling me. So I'm like, okay, I have to stay away from sin because in a lot of churches and a lot of religions, not just Mormons, they compare homosexuality to murder, to pedophilia. And so you're like, oh, I'm one of the worst people out there. Wow. How much shame has been trapped in your body for

that many years. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, you have this like inner homophobia you're dealing with. Totally. But like, so I would talk to my, my, my, exes when I was like when I was engaged and say just so you know I struggle with same sex attraction but other Mormons like they I mean they were taught about it the same way I was so they it's like there's this mutual understanding it's like some people have depression some people have anger some people have um like bipolar disorder and so other people have have same sex feelings so it was looked at as like a mental illness and something that you could overcome if you have faith and so you're doing this also while in front of millions of people knowing who you are and trying to

figure yourself out. So how did you mask your internal pain? Like how are you showing up in the world to not be who you actually were? Well, I think that's where I relate a lot with like the Secret Lives of Mormon wives people. Like you feel like you put on a front. Yeah. And you put on a performative. I mean, I was a performer. So like I relate a lot to watching Whitney. And she's talked about it. She's like, I just, she's like, I've always been a performance, so that's all I know. But like, it's, you're also sincere in your performance. And, but it's also like, oh, like, I think you just, like, don't know how to separate the two. And so sometimes I'm like watching, like, I empathize with her, but I also, like, cringe because I'm like, that's how I am. And I didn't, I don't know how to,

I didn't know how to separate the two. Like, you just feel like as a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, like, you have to always, they teach you, like, to be a delight to others and to be an example. And we are different from everyone else. And we have to show everyone that. We have to show everyone how happy we are and how blessed we are because we have the true gospel in our lives. So you kind of just, you learn, like I was a performer. So I, I think it was pretty natural to transition to be like, look how blessed I am. Like I can literally, like, I can feel it just turn on. Like, you feel this like front come forward and say, you have the smile and just like you put it's like you glaze over and say I know like what I have

like I feel I'm blessed because I have the gospel and that's on the front and everyone's like look how spiritual they are and look how blessed and he's such an example in light of the world and like I did become like this example to every like most people in my church which also becomes confusing because you're like oh it's working I'm doing what I'm supposed to do but what I'm supposed to be doing and it's working on the outside. You believe the performance. Sure. It's like, okay, this is the reaction or response I'm getting from other people. It must be right. Yeah. But on the inside, you feel horrified. You feel like you're trying to protect people from knowing this deep dark secret about you. Yeah. And like they must never know. Like, you just feel like you're,

I felt like I was like cheating, like having an affair all the time because I'm like, I have to live a double life. And I wasn't living a double life necessarily, like, I wasn't dating guys. I wasn't doing any of that because I was so devout to my religion. But at the same time, I'm like, nothing I'm doing is changing who I am. Like, I'm still gay.

Yeah. So was it just five years ago that you were like, I'm assuming you don't practice being a Mormon anymore? No. What was the moment for you? Because you probably almost broke character almost in your years of trying to be this light, this, um, show them the example, be the example. And American Idol and

heart throb, whatever it was, you probably almost broke character into like the real you, because you're like, wait, who am I? And then at what point were you like, I can't do this anymore? Yeah. I mean, I, so my last engagement, I was just like, this poor girl. Like, yeah. Because when you suppress your emotions, I swear, that's why I see like, I see all these politicians that come out, they're like, no, traditional marriage. And then they're like, they get found out that they're doing like they're doing gay shit on the side. Yeah. And those,

the homophobic people are the gay ones. I'm sorry. Yeah. And I was like, I'm becoming one of those people. Yeah. Because when you suppress your emotions and try to put this front on, you start feeling all this resentment.

Start feeling this bitterness and hatred. You start feeling hatred. It's mostly for yourself. Yeah. But it starts, you start projecting it on other people. I was starting to do that to my, my last ex-fiance.

And she's so sweet. Like the sweetest girl, like lovely, beautiful, great communication. And I was feeling hatred. I was like, I would just feel like, oh, like around her because she doesn't deserve that. That's where I was just like, I either am going to let this consume me. I was like considering and taking my life or I was like, I just have to come to terms with the fact that I'm intimate. men because I was, I'm not like full, full gay, like there's some attraction to women. But I was like, I can make this work.

But like, when you're suppressing all those feelings, it really eats at you. So I was just like, this is so not healthy. I need to, I need to come out. And I almost, I almost ended up taking my life. Wow. So glad you're here. Thank you. Thank you.

And what's weird is so many people, so many Mormons end up taking their life. I've met. And I feel like a lot of people are in denial that it happens. but when I came out, like, I heard so many stories. And since I've come out, like, I've heard so many stories of people who've taken their lives. And I'm like, this is so not necessary. They think that it's their best option because in Mormonism, you believe that. And I think a lot of religions, like, they teach you, you're not living this life for here.

You're living life now to prepare for the life to come. And with Mormons, they're just like, if you give into the worst sins, like being gay, you are giving up your family forever. So a lot of people are like, I don't want to lose my family forever. So I guess I might as well sacrifice my life now so that I can be with my family in the life to come. Oh my gosh. That is heartbreaking. That's a heartbreaking thought.

And also, how do you unlearn that conditioned way of thinking? Funny enough, like, I met my first boyfriend at church. When I came out, I was still going to the Mormon church. Wow. And I like went up and I let people know. I let my congregation know like, hey, I'm, this is what I found, because I found like through like an experience in prayer, I was, God was like, hey, just so you know, like I'm fine with you. Like I made you this way. And also there's nothing wrong with it.

Like, there's like a beautiful love you can experience. Yeah. And even if people tell you it's bad, it's like if you're a consent to an adult with another consent to an adult and you just love each other and give each other companionship and support. other. Yeah. So I was like, okay, if God saw me this, I'm like, maybe I should just keep living and go for it. And I was telling people about it at church. Because every first Sunday of the month in the Mormon church, anyone in the congregation could go up and give, it's called Fast and Testimony meeting. So everyone is like fasting. They're not eating for like two or three meals. And you can go and just like express whatever you want. And it's really a lovely experience actually.

I'm sure. So I went up and like telling people like, hey, I came out and because this was my experience with God and like I almost and I told them like I almost took my life and just so you know like you can be happy for sure and if you're going through what I did like it's I'm learning that God loves us too and we're God's children too and as soon as I got down like the meeting wasn't over like they're still letting people go up and the president of the congregation goes up and he corrects what I'm saying and he's like none of us are perfect and he was like invalidating my experience saying like not everything like people say is right and I was like you just had the most free moment and then and I was like this is like the perfect example of why it's hard for people queer people to

come to church because you're invalidating our experience and who and when I got loves who are you to say who God can love and who he can't yeah well I think that's where it gets tricky because people are like well pedophiles love children like you so I'm like okay that's those are children. That's a different experience. And yeah, that's wrong. And a lot of the people in churches and in conservative values are the people are always getting arrested. Like you're not finding very many people. It's because it's like, again, I think it's like those suppressed feelings start coming out and hurting. It comes out on vulnerable people because they don't know how else to let it out. So they find vulnerable people and take advantage of them. So it's like,

we're not the problem because it's like we've come to, we've come to peace with. it. Like, we've healed, like, after I came out, four people in the congregation came up to me and they're like, I'm gay. Thank you for what you said. And I was like, and none of us are really allowed to know that each other exists. So I was like, oh, I'm like, it's so freeing that I don't have to hide. That would have been one of the scariest things in my life to do, like even just like four months ago. And now here I am. And part of a church. Yeah. But I was like, I was like, why is the leader of the congregation saying, like he, why is he invalidating and correcting what I said? And so. he was trying to like teach them like no this is actually what god thinks and you are imperfect and it's okay to be sinful and you can always repent and like come to god and i was just like did you say anything to him i think at that point i was just like these people are so set in what they think is right sometimes i'm just like i don't think i'd want to spend all my energy worrying about this it was just like so was that your last moment at that church it wasn't it wasn't i started going to other congregations and like they all knew i was

out. So it's like, people are like, we love you so much. But it's also kind of like, I think people were, it's like, we love you, but this is what our leaders say. Your word is not as important as what our leaders say. Right. So we love you, but like our leaders still say what you're doing is wrong. So how do you stay true to yourself and not feel shame when the world is, your world is going against you and you know your truth? Like, how do you, what did you do to stay sane and believe in yourself and not feel the shame from everyone else that's supposed to be supporting you. So I thought like I'm going to keep coming and like show people that being gay is not a bad thing.

Good for you. Like I'm the same as you. But when I met my first boyfriend at church and like he didn't want, he didn't always go because he felt the same guilt that I was dealing with. Did he grow up Mormon? Not really. But like he grew up religious. Yeah.

So he would, I was like, come on. Let's go to church. I'm like, because he was like, he saw that I was out and open about being out. And he was like, I want to like be there and like kind of like be your partner and like showing that people like us are not bad. I was like, okay, awesome. Like let's do this. He would go to church and like on the way home he'd be in tears and crying. And there was just one Sunday where he was like, he just said in the car, he was like, he's like, maybe it's better if I just don't exist. Oh. And when I saw that, I was like, no, no, no, no. I was like, I was there or just earlier this year.

like I'm not putting someone else through this. Because why do queer people always end up thinking this when we go to church? Church is supposed to be like, they keep telling us like it's a safe place. So I'm like, why is this always where we end up mentally? Like at the time I'm like, I love him. Like I want him to feel good and like feel like God cares about him. And clearly like when we keep going to this environment, it's making him hate himself. And I was like, I was thinking like, we'll change the narrative and stuff.

But I was like, you know what? At what cost? It's not at what cost. I'm like, this is not a healthy environment. I think I'm done. Like, I need to stop going because I think I'm still, it's still messing with my mind, too. I kept getting on his case, like, if he drank alcohol and stuff, I was like, you're not supposed to drink alcohol. And like, I was so mad.

Some of my partners, I'm like, you had sex before marriage. Why? And I was like, wait a second. And I used to think of that about, like, gay people. And like, even myself, I'm like, you're not supposed to be gay. I'm like, wait a second. And like the things I was taught in prayer are God saying, no, like these people, you know, they come up with rules and stuff that they feel help them and help them feel safe and give them structure in life. But not everything they're teaching is absolute truth the way they think it is.

And I was like, you know what? Maybe I need a challenge more of what I'm believing. And I did. I was like, you know what? What if the book of Mormon isn't the word of God the way I was told? And I started looking into the history like more thoroughly. Because in, when you're in the church, you're just taught, stay away from any other. sources to, you know, only go to LDS.org, which is, I think, now Church of Jesus Christ.org.

These are the only sources that you should rely on. Everything else is dangerous. It is anti-Mormon. Like scare tactics. Like psychological warfare. And then I was like, oh my God, like they've said, like, Joseph Smith was a polygamous and they're like, that's not true. And then all of a sudden, like six years ago or seven years, I don't know. Suddenly the church released information. They're like, actually, so yeah, Joseph Smith did actually was a polygamous. And he did marry like over 30 women and yes some of them were teenagers and blah blah and i was like wait so how come you were telling us that this wasn't true yeah how come you were telling us these were just like tactics to attack our church and now you're saying it's true suddenly what a mental yeah so then i was like okay what the

okay what else have you told me it was a lie yeah and so i started looking i'm like okay like i just realized okay i'm like i'm pretty sure jose smith just made up this story and i'm following it and And I almost gave my life for it. But like when you go to the temple, you make a covenant to give your life for it. Like if it gets to that point, you make like covenants in the temple. It's like you are willing to give your life if it is necessary to the Church of Jesus Christ, the latter day saints. And you make an oath to do that. So I almost gave my life for this shit.

And other people have. Right. And it wasn't necessary. So it was just like. That's the saddest part. Some people don't even have the language to articulate. what they're feeling and take their own lives when, you know, there's, oh. A lot of teenagers do.

Yeah. A lot of. That breaks my heart. Yeah. And I think it's, and it's so weird because, like, it gets blown over. But, like, even living in Nashville, like, I would hear, it happens more than we talk about it, like, because I know suicide is, like, it's, it's a, it's a sensitive topic. But it would happen in church all the time.

But, like, no one would really talk about it. But, like, a lot of times people would find notes. And a lot of these kids and even adults would say, I couldn't overcome my sexuality or like I was, I could never heal myself from the, the filth that I was. And, you know, now that I, that I almost did it, it's like, I don't know. It's just, Dan Reynolds from Imagine Dragons has done a lot of amazing work because he, he was like saying, like, hey, there's, there's a lot of LGBT, teenage and youth suicides in Utah. And we've got to address this. We have to help them feel loved and feel like they belong.

even with their sexuality. Like that shouldn't be, because so many of them get abandoned and so many of them get kicked out of their homes. And they still do. But it's like you're even hearing about how that book has been lying to you. Like I don't understand. I will never understand.

Obviously, I just, I grew up differently. I was, my family is so accepting of like all different cultures and religion, sexuality. Like, I grew up in a healthy household like that. That's so fascinating to me. Yeah. To grow up with more. more like really care what other people do. No.

As Mormons, like you do care what everyone does because you feel like if you're not living the same way I am, your salvation is at stake. Right. Or maybe not your salvation, but you could be at a higher degree of heaven and you're settling for less. It's so impressive to me for someone to be as strong as you are to challenge that belief, be your true authentic self and be able to hold space for people who are either struggling or who. who still believe what they believe, or to be able to look back and be like, no, I showed up still at this church and I admitted I was gay. And instead of feeling, which I'm sure you felt some shame, but instead of like letting it overrule you and take your power, you allowed it to a channel like writing a book, continuing to like be who you are. Okay, we're going to hold on for a quick tiny break and just a friendly reminder that these episodes are free 99 for you because of our wonderful sponsors. So let's show them some love real quick.

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I feel like it's already you start to lose your sense of self with somebody else's pushing you in a direction of like what they believe you should do. And you had that coming from all angles, including your own dad. So was he like that even before American Idol? Or did he? see your potential and go, oh. No, he was like that before American Idol. You know what's interesting? Some of the writers I've been working with this week, both related to that part of the book so much

because they were like, like I, they both had dadagers as well. And they're like, my relationship with my dad would have been so much better if there wasn't that dynamic with the career where they felt like they had to push. And it's so interesting because I feel like that happens so much because my friend who encouraged me to even write my book

to write about was Jeanette McCready. And what we connected on was she had a mom mager and I had a dadager. And I feel like it's so many of us who are in this world in the entertainment space had a parent like that. And it's like this double-edged sword. Like they did push me in ways that helped me get where I am. Totally. But I can't help but appreciate that but also be so resentful towards them because a lot of

parts of me just wanted to have a dad. I just wanted a dad or just like a parent. Well, and you don't want to think of love as conditional and you want to think of it as unconditional and it's like not about what you do or how you perform or anything like that that makes you feel loved. It should just be you as you. Yeah. And that's very hard. And especially for that generation of parents too, like I give them a lot of grace because I've done so much work on inner child stuff that it helps you see like through a different lens for your parents. and yeah it's kind of like I feel the same way like you feel resentment but at the same time like you wouldn't have what you have without it so it's very confusing it is but it's as a kid you just you want to feel unconditional love when I deconstructed like my Mormon beliefs I also just deconstructed religious beliefs in general just and I felt like I had to in order to just because I was going to other friends churches here in Nashville after I left the Mormon church I'd go to my church where a lot of my friends went to and literally he was just saying anyone with the spirit of homosexuality that they need to cast out of them. Like, we're preying over you.

And I was just like, I just went through this. Like, I already, like, I'm healing from this. I don't need to have someone misunderstand me as, like, this evil thing. Right. And so I just stopped going. I'm like, I love the music here, but I just, I just need to be in an environment where I'm not looked at as an evil spirit is taken over me. Right.

And, like, I had friends, like, which I mentioned in the book, but it's like, I had friends saying, like, you're being deceived by the devil. was that this is okay. And I'm like, well, God. And they're like, well, no, that was, that was the devil appearing to you as an angel of light to deceive you. I'm like, oh my God. I'm like, mate, you're right.

This is so much more. Yeah. Does your dad make you feel that way as well? No, my dad was fully supportive of me coming out. Okay. Yeah. So we, I had not really talked to him for seven years. He was the first one to leave the church, but he got kicked out of the church.

So I went on a Mormon mission. And that was like my first cutoff away from my dad. And he was so upset that I was leaving. And is this when he was in a dad-a-dermode and like, yeah, okay. Yeah, this was like back in like 2011, 2012. He just did not want me to go. He didn't think I deserved to go. He didn't think I was worried to go, be a missionary.

I was like, you know what? Whatever, it's fine. But like, I went to Chile. I was a missionary there for two years in South America. And it gave me space for my dad. And it was there that my mission, one of my mission leaders, because they were observing, like, my relationship, the dynamic with my dad, and I showed him some of the letters that my dad had sent me

because he was like, why are you acting? Because I was like growing a lot and it was like in leadership position in my mission. And then like I got these letters from my dad and I suddenly reverted back to being like a little kid. I didn't know how to act. I didn't know how to think for myself. And my mission leader was like, what is going on with you? And I was just like, I don't know what to tell you, but maybe if you read this, you'll understand. And it was letters from my dad. And he brought me back in and he was like, I read those letters. She's like, your dad's abusing you. Wow.

I'm like, excuse me? I'm like, my dad's never hit me. Right. And my mission leader said, there's physical abuse, but then there's also verbal and mental and emotional abuse. And he's like, your dad is verbally and mentally and emotionally abusing you. And I was like in shock because I'd never, I thought emotional and mental abuse was like, as you're hitting someone like you're telling you're good for nothing, you piece of

Right. So I didn't think that it was possible to be any type of abuse without the physical. Yeah. And so I was like, what are you talking? I was like, I got so defensive too. I was like, no, that's my dad. Like, how dare you talk about my dad like that? But he spent like a good chunk of time talking to me, like just helping me to process and like look back and I'm like, oh my God.

I'm like, so what am I supposed to do? And my mission leader, like this is like a church leader. Like how old are you at this point? I was 23. 23. 23. Okay. Yeah. And he said.

I would advise you to cut your dad out of your life and not speak to him anymore. And I was like, what? I'm like, Mormon Church, we're about family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, how could you say that about my dad? How do these kids about myself? Do I need to question them? God.

Yeah. And I also came out to that. The first time I came out was on my mission. Yeah. To this mission leader. And I said, like, hey, I have feelings for guys. And I thought coming out on my mission would help me keep my mind focused on God. And I'm doing everything I can to keep focus on God.

and I still have these feelings and I don't know what to do and he just said like hey God loves you and you're doing a great job and keeping what you're doing wow so I was like oh like I might be okay

but when I got back from my mission like then my church leaders were telling me you're not gay my gosh so but like that was really the song and dance for you like back and forth and back and forth like mental gymnastics of like battling your own

yeah oh my gosh is it confusing us no kidding I'm like so I'm like I'm like I'm trying to come to terms of this up okay but maybe I shouldn't. So you didn't talk to your dad for seven years? Yeah.

Well, I did. There were a couple times where I had to. Like, I had to get my website back from him. And I would see him at like family gatherings, but that was like, that was basically it. And what was that dynamic? It was just like very guarded. Yeah. But he at a certain point started respecting my boundaries.

For the first like year, two years, he did not. He was so mad at me. And there's a moment where he blew up at me at a Christmas party at my grandpaws. It was like the first time other people saw how he treated me. because he always did it when no one else was around. So it was kind of like, so validated, he was like, oh, my God. Because I turned to my sister. I was like, did I do something?

Did I do anything wrong? Yeah. My sister said, no. She's like, I'm so proud of you, David. But she had never seen my dad treat me that way. Interesting. So your dad wasn't like that to other siblings. Not to everyone.

He was with my oldest sister and to my mom. Yeah. So it was interesting. Like, your parents, you can have very different experiences in the same household. Yes. But, like, you know, my dad was always. out on the road of me in L.A. And he was a good dad in a lot of ways, too.

It was just, it was hard when he would get like an absolute, like, nope, this is right and this is wrong. By what's right and what's wrong is, it was basically his opinion. Yeah. Well, it's interesting, too, that you say that he really struggled with your boundary for the first couple years because have you heard the saying about boundaries? No. The people who hate your boundaries are the people who benefited from you not having any.

and they don't understand how to react to your boundaries without defense, anger, because they don't know what to do with it. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. I love that. And I think that was what was the most healing thing about writing and this memoir was learning, like, this memoir, was learning, like, how essential it was for me to learn how to set boundaries.

Because I didn't have any before. I thought that was me being a good person. Yeah. Was, I don't have, like, I didn't have boundaries. with my church, my church leaders, with my dad, and with people in the music business, entertainment industry, I just thought, if I don't have boundaries, like, if, and I'm a yes man. He'll say me as a good person. Yeah, and I'm nice. And I'm, and I'm, easy to work with. Because I'd hear so many people say, oh, the person's so difficult and so, I realized they just have

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Code Vine 15 to unlock 15% off. Exclusions apply. You were put in situations that didn't feel safe or age appropriate. Again, you probably didn't have boundaries at the time, but you knew something didn't feel right. What was that? I think that's where my dad was helpful in ways because I think the entertainment industry wanted to push me a lot more. My dad, at the time, very still Mormon didn't want me to, but at the same time, he was too extreme with it. I could have had a little flexibility to, like, I think the boundaries that my dad had for me was like never grow up.

And I feel like, I think an extreme view of that is like Michael Jackson. I mean, he had to grow up in front of everyone. But at the same time, people didn't want him to grow up because they thought, oh, you're so cute. You're the adorable Michael Jackson. And when he did, he was able to like musically, but like personality-wise, he never fully developed into an adult because he didn't really know how to. And I feel like when I was with my dad, I spoke a lot higher.

Like I had this mentality that I was a little kid. That's fascinating. And I looked at myself as a kid. And my brain was like a kid in a lot of ways. And that's how my dad wanted me to be because a little kid can be told what to do, easy to control. If you don't realize you're an adult, then you have to listen to your parent. I mean, we're all just, I saw Mel Robbins say it. We're all just eight-year-olds in adult bodies unless you do the work.

Like unless you do the therapy, the work, the inner healing, all those things. Like that stuff just doesn't happen. That's not just part of growing up. It's putting in the work. And people who don't can get stuck. at that age. And people do get, you know, emotionally stuck at certain age. Britney Spears, I feel like, like certain people, Michael Jackson, like they do. So I'm glad you realized this. God. And what's horrible is a lot of people around you will take advantage of you. Of course.

And I, you know, Brittany is another really tragic example. Oh, as long as you don't learn how to set boundaries, we can keep taking from you. We can manipulate you. We can abuse you to our advantage. because you give us money, you give us power. Yeah. And it feels so good to be able to control someone who is adored by other people who gets a lot of attention and praise. Like, by being able to control you, it makes me feel so powerful. Yeah. And even those now grown adults, like, they're still grieving a childhood, even though they have a childlike mentality.

Like, do you feel like you had a childhood or do you feel like some of that was taken away from you? I feel like some of it was taken away. and I've taken time to grieve that and mourn it. That's good enough. There are times where I stepped away from my career. Like when I went on my mission, it was like a, it was a way of stepping away. And a lot of people are like, why did you do that? Like, you could have been like so much bigger than you are.

But I feel like mentally I was in a place of self-sabotage. Like I didn't feel like I deserved my success. Yeah. But at the same time, it gave me time to grow up a little bit and to mourn whatever it was that I was, what I'd lost. Yeah, it wasn't just about the mission. It was about personal growth and space and healing for you as well. Yeah, it was. And when I got back from my mission and moving to Nashville, it was time to just kind of process everything. And it was like a spiritual journey for me. And it was a really beautiful, Nashville has like really beautiful healing elements to it. So it was a great place to be. It was also like

my first time stepping out of like the Mormon environment, the bottom. the bubble. I mean, I was still very involved in my church here, but it was a time to be able to look at things a little differently. Like, oh, you know, people live differently than this perfect lifestyle that everyone in Utah feels like they have to. Yeah. It's very performative, I feel like in Utah because it's like, well, I have to show everyone how happy I am and how great my life is because I have the church. Well, even Jesse talks about like she even feels like she has to control her looks to be perfect and like that whole thing. It's all, it's all very sad. I have two very deep questions for your crew.

Where is your relationship with your dad today and where is your relationship with God today? I feel like they're both complicated. Mm-hmm. I was on good terms with my dad until the book came out. I was going to ask. Okay. And so that was... Did you have a conversation with him before the book came out?

I did. Okay. I actually had conversations with him because he knew I was writing the book. He was not happy about it, which I don't blame him because it's like, or talk about the messiness but I'm like dad like I my life isn't what it is without you and that includes the really messy parts of it and I'm like I you're the one who like really pushed hard for me to become a star yeah and I don't I mean parts of me wanted to but a lot of me parts of me didn't want to be a star right and that's where I relate a lot with Jeanette's story because Jeanette was like if you will

be happy then I will be the bit the best actor right I can be if that makes you happy and it did and kind of like the same thing I'm like well if if you want me to be the best singer if that makes you happy then I'll do it but my dad you know wanted me to be a big he wanted me to be famous he wanted me to be a star and but I resented that like I'm like like what if I don't want to and my dad's like well then you don't understand you don't understand how talented you are and you don't understand how great you can be I'm like but what if I'm okay not having everyone's attention. What if I'm okay not being like this wealthy, you know, famous person with all these adoring fans. Like, what if I, what if that's not what I want? But I didn't really get a chance to

ask myself that because it wasn't up to me. I think that's where it's a double edged sword because when you get that fame, it's very validating to your parent because you get all the adoration and love and praise. And everyone's like, you must be on cloud nine right now. Like when I was on American Nile, I heard that so many times. You must be on cloud nine right now. You must be on the top of the world. You must be the happiest you've ever been. And I had to kind of like act like I was because I'm like, how can I be ungrateful for what's going on? But I resented it because I'm like, I don't want this. Like I just want to be alone at home with my cats and go like rollerblading around my neighborhood. I just want to like hang out with my friends and just like chill. And I can't. Because people always think this idea of fame, they romanticize this. vision of what fame would look like for them and they think, well, that would fix everything. Everyone would love me. I'd get money. I'd have attention. And like to some people that does fulfill

them and to some people, it feels like now more and more people are not seeing who you actually are. You're feeling invalidated because you're being praised for something. You're not. You get more confused and you want to go inwards more. Yeah. Yeah. Which sounds like that's what happened. Yeah. They're just so hard to navigate again. at that age. It is. Yeah. With that said, I am grateful.

Of course. So it's like I'm able to live a comfortable life. At least not yet. I don't have to worry about like how I'm going to pay my bills and like put food on the plate. And like I've been able to help my family so much when they were struggling and even like, you know, medical eating stuff. Like it's so it's like I'm so glad that I was able to be in a position.

But it's also just difficult because, you know, it got to a place where my dad was like, you owe us. You owe me. Well, that's the problem too. when somebody feels like they get credit for what you've done and that they put all their effort into you. And now it's held over your head. Yeah. And so it's like, okay, how long do I have to live my life for my dad?

Yeah. And when can I start living it for myself? And I think that's where it got really difficult because my dad was like, he invested so much of his life into what I do. So for him, he had to, when I set boundaries, he had to mourn because like I was no longer a tool in his hands. He had to accept that I was my own person. Yeah. And we've gone to a point where he has. So it's a really beautiful thing talking about the book brought back trauma. I bet. So I've had to like set space again. And he hasn't reached out to me because ever since People Magazine reached out to him for a comment and they're like, what do you think about your son saying about your abuse?

And my dad, you know, he was chill with it. He's like, you know what? He's like, I love my son. And I don't look at what I did as a, you know, of course. Like he didn't, you know, he looked at him being the best dad he knew how to be. Yeah. I appreciate that about him. And I respect it.

And, you know, parents, they don't have a map. They don't have a guide. They don't have classes. I mean, well, at BYU in Utah, they do have classes about being a parent. But my dad didn't take those. So I think it's like, you know, my parents did the best they knew how with their own mess and their own trauma and their own wounds. Always. Parents are always doing what they know and doing their best.

And sometimes what they know isn't right. And it doesn't work for the child. And I always struggle with this too with like my mom is such a big part of why I have everything that I have. And she like went into freaking debt to buy me like all my best. Bachelorette dresses to like put me on the show. Like she, and it's because she believed in me and it was what I wanted. It was. It was something I believed in too.

But just so many parts of growing up, you build so much resentment for certain things with your parents while also it's the whole saying of the two things can be true at once. It's like they can be the greatest versions of themselves and still hurt you in some way. And it's not intentional and it's not malicious, but it's not right either. and that has to be okay with everybody. It's just about how you move forward with it. Yeah. And if you wanting to write a book and share your story and help other people as part of your journey,

yes, he can be mad and not talk to you or have his own boundaries. And he can be proud and love you and know that this is part of your journey. You know, you just want, like, your parent to be there and to be supportive of what you're doing and, like, love them and have someone to talk to. When there's like this like stage parent dynamic, you have no choice but to basically have to break the relationship you have with them. At least like for me and like a lot of my peers and my friends who've had parents who are also like they had to ruin the relationship in order to keep. To repair it almost. To repair it. A lot of them don't ever end up repairing it though because their parents are so bitter that it's like you cut me out of in the piece of the pie.

Yeah. And the piece of the pie, what your success you're getting. It's like, it's complicated because it's like I didn't, my dad with my dad, like he had conditions to his love. Yeah. And that was what was the most heartbreaking part of it for me was because I used to say like, dad, you know, I love you. And it made me, it's made it hard for me to say I love you for like a decade. I bet. Because my dad would say, well, if you really loved me, then you would X, Y, Z.

And so I stopped saying I loved him because I was like, you don't believe it anyway. And you only accept it if I submit to whatever your request is. Yep. And then you say I don't really love you if I don't fulfill your request, which is it could be being in charge of my career or getting him more money. And if I didn't do that, I didn't love him. So it was just. Well, also clouds your judgment of what love is. Then you're moving through life being like what does real love look like.

Yeah. And I think I still kind of f*** up today. Like I don't really know how to have a good. healthy relationship because I think a lot of what I knew as a relationship was the one I had with my dad. That's honest. There are times where my mom would say she's like, it feels like you're the one married to you're a dad, not me. Wow. And your parents are still together.

No. They're not. They got divorced like over a decade ago. Okay. And she's been remarried and I love my stepdad. He's wonderful. Oh, that's nice. He's a great man.

Yeah. But yeah, it's interesting. But like my dad, he made a condition when I got back, the only way we can. can heal our relationship is you have to listen and do everything I tell you. I'm like, Dad, I'm not going to do that. Right. And then he would say, how could you treat me like this? My own son. I never thought my son, you know, this is like, and he would say, like, you're not worthy. Like, you're, you're so unworthy to claim that you believe in God and things like this. And I was, I was like, Dad, what am I doing specifically to you? You wouldn't specify because it was the horrible way I'm

treating you that you're claiming is basically that I'm saying no. Yeah. And I'm setting boundaries. And I'm not just letting you take over my life. I'm in my 30s now. Like it doesn't work that way anymore. Like you want me to be the eight year old, nine year old, 12 year old. And I'm, I'm in my 30s now. I'm an adult. Like, it's not your job to run my life anymore. It's like I'm finished business still with my dad. Yeah. But that makes sense. And it might not ever be finished or completely. But like I, I just think your sole purpose on this planet. Like you've always stood up to what people are trying to tell you to be. You've stood up to everything and faced so many challenges and confusion and a blueprint of what you're supposed to be with, no, this is my truth. I just believe it's your soul's purpose to like stand in truth

and what you believe in. And that's your own success. And the fact that you can write about it and sing about it and write music like that's helping other people in ways more than you probably even realize. I hope you know Thank you. Obviously, your single blew up crush that everybody knows, do you feel like attached to that song or are you? I feel like it's a part of my tapestry. Like it's part of my life. Yeah. It's a way that I've been able to connect with so many people, just like American Idol.

I feel like crush is so much more wholesome. It was a time of like my teenage years. And it's like, it was such a way of like describing in a song and performing it in a way that so many people could relate to. And so many people come. up to me like, this is the song I played for my girlfriend or for my boyfriend when we first met and now we're getting married. Yeah. It's just, it's fun to look at it that way and that it's had the longevity. That song has had the longevity as long as I've been, I've had my career. Yeah. And if that's the only song I ever have, that's like a huge hit. Like, I'm like,

I love the idea of being a one hit wonder. Oh my God. I, you know, it's like the worst, it's like one of your biggest fears as an artist. Like, is that the peak of my life? But at the same time, The fact that it has the love and respect that it has. Still to this day. This is great. This is great. Like I could be known for so many other things. Like I could have like peed my pants on the stage or something.

Like something embarrassing. But no, like I'll go down in history for having this song that helped people think of the first moment of love. And like or if it's just a crush or if it's just love like for people to just like savor that moment. It's really beautiful. Okay, we're going to come right back to that. We're taking a quick break. Okay, we all know this feeling when your to do list is so long. You don't even know where to start. Oh, I feel like that right now, actually. Work appointments, catching up with friends, remembering to drink enough water. Life is nonstop. And if you throw apartment hunting into the mix, well, forget about it.

Just forget about it. But that is where Apartments.com can come in handy. They take the stress out of finding your next home so you can actually enjoy the process instead of dreading it. So if you want to see if a place is a good fit, you could take a three, virtual tour and get a real feel for the space without even having to leave your couch. And once you find a place you love, you can schedule a tour online and even apply with one click. So you're not stuck filling out endless paperwork for every single place you're interested in. It's all in one spot making your search just way easier. So whether you're moving for a fresh start, a new job, just better vibes all around,

apartments.com helps you get it done so you can get back to literally everything else. So join the millions of happy renters. Find your next home at Apartments.com, the place to find a place. You got through a very dark rock bottom. You said you didn't even know if you felt like you deserved or you did feel like you didn't deserve to be here. Like for you to get through that and be able to even openly speak about that, we're in such a mental health crisis in the world right now. And the world is just like such a scary place. And to be told who you're supposed to be and how you're supposed to be.

and pigeonhole and put into a box and then the internet telling you to be a certain way and drink certain drinks to be this and get on this medication. Like people are trying to condition everyone into being someone they're not. And I'm just like, I've really had enough with it to be honest with you.

And I feel like you're kind of like the rebel of the world where you're not going to fall for that shit and you're going to share your story to help other people not fall for the bullshit. That's the goal because you're so right. Like we're so fearmongered. We're so like,

conditioned to be like reactive yeah to like charge people up and like get them out like get their anxiety kicking so that you can react the way that they want you to and it's just like it's so freeing when you're able to see it for what it is like even like what you said like drink this certain drink or you have to look this certain way or or get this certain product or else your skin or whatever like when you're able to just live according to how you like your perception and to see through like even church, like, they're constantly, I think that's what you asked about, like, where I'm at spiritually. And it's just, you know, I, I lived in a way where I was, I constantly checking myself and, like, constantly in fear. And, like, I think, you know, churches constantly, like, for the last, I don't

know how many thousands of years they've been saying that we're in the last days. And, you know, I was so taught to be afraid of myself for so many different reasons, not just my sexuality, but, like, a lot of different reasons where it's like, you can't trust yourself. That's why you've got to trust us. And my dad did that, TV producers did that. Yeah. And I was just like, I'm finally at a point where I'm like, oh, I'm starting to unlearn. Like I'm in the process of I'm learning to not be so afraid and like trust myself a little bit. Well, what a great age to do that in your 30s.

Like people don't learn that until way later in life after, you know, you've already gone through so much life, like three engagements coming out, dealing with this. You've gone through so much life being thrown into fame at such a young age. that you're able in your 30s to say like, this isn't right and here's how I want to live. A lot of people don't get there. So to do that, like I feel like people really come into their own in their 30s and it just if you choose to. And it just gets better and better from there, if, again, if you choose to. And you say writing this book, obviously you're sharing so many deep, dark, personal

things and that it almost reopened wounds for you. What are you doing now? The books out there, people can buy it, people can read your story. What are you doing now to like, continue to heal and like you said that that book was so hard to write what are you doing for yourself mentally spiritually now to help yourself through this so i titled my memoir devout because it's my journey of being so devoted to so many other things like church family work even fans like it and always seeking in validation from exterior factors looking for that external validation and

So it was learning how to shift from being devoted to so many other things and shifting inward to just be devout to what was within me. And when people say like, oh, so does that mean you don't believe in God anymore? Like, I don't really know because even whatever God was and is told me that God isn't what everyone was telling me God was. So like I grew up like I don't even know what to, you know, I'm so used to saying, heaven. Father, like God, he, and like, I don't even know anymore because, like, because I don't, who, who know? Like, who said that God is a man? Like, right. In my church, like, growing up as, like, a Latter-day Saint, you literally are taught God is a man. And he is a husband. He literally has a wife. I mean, he, and I mean, they don't say it a lot, but he has multiple wives, which is why

God. They practice polygamy because they believe that you're becoming like God. But, like, I mean, I think a lot of, Even Mormons are, don't realize that that's what the doctrine is. Right. But it is like, that's what they've taught. Please tell me you've seen the book of Mormon and. I have. Oh my God. I, I, I, I felt so, like, embarrassed to be there the first time I was there because I just left

the church. I'm like, oh my gosh. If someone sees me here, I feel like I'm. It's also the most unhinged thing I've ever seen in my life in like the best way. But yeah, I can't imagine if you growing up and then seeing something like that where it's just like a complete mockery of it. You're like a little embarrassed, a little ashamed. a little like full of humor.

Like there's so many different emotions going through you, I'm sure. They're so accurate with so many of their details too. The turn it off, the whole bit of it with the tap dancing, really changed my life. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Turn it off like a lights. And it's so perfect because he's like, I'm like, that is exactly what.

When you're in the closet on your mission, that's exactly what you're going through. Yeah. And that's how, I feel like that's how they have a lot of things. It's like rather than processing it, like logically, just turn it off. Because you're supposed to follow blindly. Thought a little Mormon trick. Yeah. Oh my God.

You really know the music. Oh, I've seen it four times. Oh my God. I'm like theater obsessed though. I like love it. Yeah, you said you were in theater? Yeah, I did theater growing up. My mom actually taught musical theater as well.

Wow. Yeah. I loved it. My favorite thing in the world is I'm actually, I just got a place in New York. And I'm like, I get to be in New York and just go to Broadway whenever I want to. I like love that much. Yeah. It is so fun.

I've thought about moving it into New York. So does the theater background get, did that give you experience with movement and stuff? Because you have your dancing with the stars trophy right there. Congrats on that, by the way. Thank you. I'm so proud of her. I've had people like, are you going to do dancing with the stars? Are you going to dance with it?

So I'm like, do you have any advice for like? Get in the best shape of your life before you do it. Okay, before. I literally went into like beast mode three months before. I was like, I lifted weights four times a week. I even did like, I would go to a physical. therapist and I would balance on a ball to get ankle strength while she'd put drunk goggles on me and she'd throw a ball and I'd have to catch it while balancing. Like I worked on everything. Oh my God. I was so committed. I was like, I will win. Oh my God. But also it's all of just your fans to vote because at the end of the day, look at Whitney. She was like the best dancer I've ever seen. Holaria ballswin, literally a trained ballroom dancer. And the internet will rally against you or with you. And that we know about the internet. Yeah. That's for sure. Well, I hope that internet rallies with you on this book. Where can everybody find it?

Thank you. I mean, it's on Amazon. Anywhere you can buy books, I'm pretty sorry. Do you have a website? Yeah, I have David Archeletta.com. Do you have the link in your bio? Where's your Instagram? Tell us where to find you. Yeah, Instagram is David Archie, A-R-C-H-I-E. Facebook is David Archeletta. David Archie is everything else. So Instagram threads X.

Well, my last question to you would be, what do you want people to take away from the book? I would want them to be able to learn how to challenge the authority figures in their life, whatever that may be, to be able to give themselves space to question so that they can be able to repair, reconstruct, and make a better life for themselves. Because we're told a lot of things, and I think it's important to be able to question whether those are valid. The things that are, whether they're like social constructs we're given or just beliefs that we've been taught about ourselves. even family, you know? Yeah. I talk a lot about family trauma, and you think that you have to be loyal to family and religion because it's like it's the most important thing, but you learn that even those things take

advantage of you. And you're kind of conditioned to be like, no, never. I can't even question that. Those are some of the very things that took the most advantage of me. And when I finally learned that is when I felt the most freedom and power back into my own center. You know, it's scary to question the same. safety nets of your life. You don't realize how good your life can become, how much better it can

become when you're able to make adjustments. And it can be scary to make those adjustments, but they're worth it. They're still worth it. The second you make a scary adjustment and you feel more aligned, more beautiful things just come into your life and you go, ah, thank you. More, please. Yes. Give me, give me. Well, speaking of, let's end on that note. Okay, we all know this feeling when your to-do list is so long. You don't even know where to start. Ooh, I feel like that right now, actually. Work appointments, catching up with friends, remembering to drink enough water. Life is nonstop. And if you throw apartment hunting into the mix, well, forget about it. Just forget about it. But that is where Apartments.com can come in handy.

They take the stress out of finding your next home so you can actually enjoy the process instead of dreading it. So if you want to see if a place is a good fit, you can take a 3D virtual tour and get a real feel for the space without even having to leave your couch. And once you find a place you love, you can schedule a tour online and even apply with one click so you're not stuck filling out endless paperwork for every single place you're interested in. It's all in one spot making your search just way easier. So whether you're moving for a fresh start, a new job, just better vibes all around, Apartments.com helps you get it done so you can get back to literally everything else. So join the millions of happy renters. Find your next home at Apartments.com, the place to find a place.

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