Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Dr. Sara Kuburic | The Millennial Therapist on Navigating Breakups, Identity, and Authentic Relationships!

Episode Date: October 24, 2024

#783. Kaitlyn sits down with Dr. Sara Kuburic, the Millennial Therapist, to explore breakups, self-loss, and how to rediscover yourself. Dr. Kuburic explains why breakups trigger existential crises, the difference between self-esteem and self-confidence, and how romantic relationships can challenge our identity. They also break down the key elements of a healthy relationship—responsibility, authenticity, and freedom. Plus, hear all about her new book, It’s On Me, packed with insights on finding meaning and living authentically. If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE! Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these deals! Every Plate: Go to EveryPlate.com/podcast and entering code Vine299 for 50% off your first box! Gravity Defyer: Use code VINE for $20 off orders of $100 or more at gdefy.com. Macy’s: From October 28th to November 4th, get ready to dive into Macy’s Friends & Family Event! Head to Macys.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Okay, let's talk about the original enemies to lovers story. Before all of our reality TV couples, before the rom-coms, we binge, there was Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy in pride and prejudice. An Audible has just dropped a brand new original that will have you completely hooked, I am. It's not just any audiobook. This is a full cast performance. So Marisa Abella, you might know her from industry, brings Elizabeth Bennett to life.

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it just feels so fresh and modern while still keeping that timeless Jane Austen charm. So whether it's your first time experience, seeing pride and prejudice or you've read it a million times you're going to fall absolutely in love all over again so go listen to pride and prejudice now at audible.ca slash jane austin i'm kaitland bristow your session is now starting i'm welcome to the i'm I'm just really excited because this is a very niche, unique role that you have. Yeah. How would you explain yourself to somebody in what you do?

You know, I don't. Like, I have had these discussions with my friends where I'm like, I don't know. I choose one thing and then I go with it. Okay. So I'll be like, I'm a writer or I'll be like, I'm a therapist. That one gets me in trouble every time, though. Because then people, do you ever tell somebody that on an airplane and then all of a sudden they're telling you their life problems?

I actually kind of stop telling people I'm a therapist. Why do you think I have you on the podcast? I'm going to tell you all my problems. you're going to help me and this is going to be just an hour of free therapy. Yeah, free therapy. I love giving free therapy. That's actually my business model. That's my business model. So you do it all. I do a lot, I would say. But what does it mean to be an existential psychotherapist? I know. It sounds made up. It sounds made up, but in like a really smart way, like it sounds really smart. Thank you. Yeah. Every therapist has a modality through which they practice. What that means is like they

have a theory. And so when they look at someone, they'll go, okay, if I practice from attachment, they'll go, oh, I wonder if this person is securely attached or avoidant or what is it to conceptualize the client. And what I'm looking for, like themes of responsibility, authenticity, meaning, death, isolation, all the super fun kind of existential stuff. And I help people figure out who am I and why am I here? Whoa. Just that. That's like my question. I ask myself every day, who am I and why am I here. Right. I 1,000 percent, have anxious attachment. Yes. Like, I go to doomsday with everything.

Like, I think the people that I fall in love with are going to leave me or die or... Oh, wow. So I, like, pull back. I don't... Okay, how would you explain an anxious attachment? Maybe I'm wrong. Like, I'm a thousand percent, but how do you explain it? And I was like, I am not an attachment therapist, but...

But you know? Of course. Okay. Of course, Jesus. But, I mean, come on. No. I think people who are anxiously attached, they tend to... get closer to individuals as a way to...

Okay, that's not me. Yes. So as a way to kind of hold on to them, their partners tend to feel a bit suffocated sometimes. And so when someone pulls back, they move forward. Avoid an attachment is individuals who are like, shit's going to go down. This is not going to be good.

So I'm going to protect myself by moving back. I'm a thousand percent avoidant. That's me. And so, you know, there is obviously more nuance to it. But yeah, you sounds a little avoidant. I mean it's I've you can be both by the way I'm definitely not the other one okay that was unless it's with my dogs oh yeah I have anxious attachment with my dogs avoid an attachment with humans I feel like I used to have both which was hell of confusing for my partners yeah because I'd be like

oh my god I need you the second you pull away and then the second you don't pull away I'm like oh my god you're suffocating me funny how do you work through that um years of therapy no well yeah Yeah. Like, do you have a therapist for yourself? I used to have a therapist for myself. And then do you have like certain ones? Because I know there's talk therapy. I know there's like EMDR therapy.

There's so many different types as you obviously know. What kind of therapy helped you the most? So I did a lot of somatic therapy. I held a lot of things in my body. And for example, I was born in the Balkans. Yes. And I lived through like two wars by the age of nine and then immigrated to Canada. And I didn't.

trauma on your body yeah but I didn't realize I was traumatized right and which is so embarrassing to say because I was in grad school the first time like grad school to become a therapist yeah and I it didn't hit me that these experiences weren't quite normal and that they probably impacted the way that I was relating to other people right obviously yeah and so when I started to develop this panic disorder in my 20s because I was getting a divorce and all the stuff was happening I then went to a therapist and she's like you know that most people didn't have these experiences and potentially you are storing trauma. So we did a bunch of somatic work and then

existential therapy, which saved my life. Wow. I mean, yeah, I was doing my research. I'm like, you were born in Yugoslavia. Yes. Raised in Canada. Yes. Love that. And you've just kind of lived all over the world. Like Europe, like you said, Middle East, Australia. That is a lot of life changing experiences that people don't do. Yeah. So that, does that have everything to do with why you are where you are today. Well, I mean, I think it has everything to do with with who I am. Yeah. I think first I started traveling as a way to escape. Oh, right? If I'm being super honest, I think it was like, I can't be myself in the context I'm in. So I need to be in a context where I have that space and that freedom and there aren't people pressuring me or expecting things for me. And then slowly it was

such a cool experience because I was bopping around and I said, well, what is the one consistent thing? And it was the way I behaved. And it was who I was. And so that was a cool way to kind of like test myself and figure out who I was. And then I got exposed to a lot of different cultures and a lot of different experiences. And then I use that to kind of inform my work. So one of the things you talk about is how relationships, especially romantic ones, can sometimes feel like a threat to our sense of identity.

And not just me. I think so many people can relate to that, especially when we're just wrapped up in a relationship. And, you know, it's just like this honeymoon. phase of like euphoric bliss and you start thinking this is what it is and this is real when it's not and you lose sight of who you are because all you want is to hang on to that feeling so what is it what do you think happens in that state so many things so I think first of all we have crazy beliefs about relationships we have the most warped views of relationships from TV shows from Disney movies from music our parents pretending things are okay to music

Yes. Yeah, to our friends lying to us being like, no, I'm happy and they're not. So I have a lot of clients that go, Sarah, I don't think I want to date ever again. And I'll go, why? And they'll say, because I can't protect myself. I can't preserve my sense of self when I'm in a relationship. And I think that's because we have said, okay, you can have autonomy and freedom or a relationship. We never talk about having autonomy and freedom in a relationship.

And that's ideally what you want. So the reason we lose ourselves is because we go, okay, this relationship is more important than the relationship I have with myself. And for some reason, we're like, it's okay that my freedom is taken away. My freedom for self-expression, preference, whatever it is. And so my values, my boundaries, we just kind of surrender it all because we're so hyper-focused on this individual hoping that they're going to fulfill a void that's within us. And chances are, if you aren't happy without a relationship, you're not going to be happy

in that relationship. Right. And so I just think we go in expecting way too much of. the other person and then also just surrendering way, way, way too much. And it's why we lose ourselves. It's like this gradual, I don't know if that happened to you, but no one's just like, I'm going to stop being myself. It's like these gradual circumstances.

We were like, oh, yeah, I guess I'll do these things. Or like, yeah, I'll compromise on this. And you do it enough. You'll wake up one day being like, I have no idea who I am outside of this relationship. Yeah. Yeah. How do you think we can protect our sense of self? while still being in a relationship and kind of surrendering to the love aspect of it

being in love being happy going through the ups and downs while still keeping like how do we do that yeah um tell us tell us solve all of our problems right now in one sentence go yeah amazing um I honestly sometimes think it can be down to scheduling it's like schedule time to hang out with just your friends yeah schedule time to just hang out with yourself schedule time that's meaningful intentional with your partner even if you live with them you have to give all of that space to breathe your relationship should not be the own romantic relationship should not be the only important relationship in your life no the second it is it's way too much pressure and this is where we invest too much we invest in a wrong way we end up getting hurt it's so much pressure for the person so

it's like what are the things you value and how can you make sure you continue doing them continue evolving as a person, expressing yourself as a person. And it's hard when we're infatuated. We're like, oh my God, I want to be with you 24-7 all the time. Please love me. Please hang out with me. And I think it's literally just having those boundaries so you can keep the consistency and keep like checking in with yourself and doing things that matter to you outside of their relationship.

I have these thoughts all the time about the beginning of relationships because people want to hang on to that so badly. And it is so fun and it feels so good and everything's just so. And you're just like, it's just like love. Yeah, everything's so great. How do we accept that that isn't reality? Because it's like you have to enter this next phase of love. Or like, yes, the honeymoon phase is there. But how do you enter that next phase and just understand that that's where the real love is?

And that it's not exciting like that every day. Like it's kind of the same thing that I think when people are like, are you happy? And I'm like, well, it depends on the hour. Like we're human beings meant to feel every emotion. like I've felt 30 already in the last three hours. Like, you know, it's, so how do you just answer? Are you happy? But it's, it's going into that next phase for me in a relationship where I'm like, is that when you really need to like evaluate if it's real?

Yes. And what time frame do you think that is when people come out of a honeymoon phase? Is it different for everybody? It's different for everyone. I think infatuation can last from like seven to 24 months. Wow. Sometimes it can last a really long time. Yeah.

And so I think it's important to, to wait that period out and not make drastic decisions while you're super infatuated. And you know you're infatuated when they're perfect. Yeah. Right? When like, all the red flags are beige. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything is just, you're like, they're the one.

I can't see a single flaw in them. And if you can't see a single flaw in them, it means you're not seeing them. Yes. Because everyone is flawed. And that's okay. Yeah. And so I think you have to go through this phase of acceptance of like being willing to see them for who they really are for who they're showing you to be a lot of the times while the

infatuation is happening people show us who they are and we just don't want to see it yeah and so it has to come to this moment where you're like I am now open to actually seeing you and taking your behaviors and words very seriously yeah and I'm either going to accept that or I'm not I think it's so wild in this day too with social media because I think that's why I'm so I'm so protective now a relationship like if I'm in a relationship now I do not I want to keep that so special and close to my heart and like not share it until it's like past that you know what I mean like I'm treating dating like if I like the internet are my children like I will introduce you to them once I know they're around yes so what do

you think of you know how social media has an impact on relationships these days honestly I found a trend that the more someone posts the less happy they are yeah I I also saw, I mean, that just came up literally this morning and it said happy people don't need to show off. Yeah, you know, and my question is, why do you want everyone to see that you're in a relationship? And that goes for anyone. And maybe you're like, that's really a part of me, an important part of me. And I want others to know. I've always been incredibly private about my relationships.

I also have friends who are super vocal and I love that. But I think having boundaries in terms of like, why am I really doing it and what is my expectation of it? Am I trying to prove that I'm happy? Am I being responsible to my future self? So for me, it's not that there is a wrong or a right way to approach social media, but it's more checking in as to what the incentive is. That's so fair. And some people do it as a way to really mark their territory.

Yeah. Especially if they're dating someone who's like incredibly hot or famous or whatever. It's like they belong to me and there's something really nice about being able to do that. You're right. There's really so many reasons people do it. Yeah. And it's like, oh, okay, cool. But was that worth putting your relationship on blast?

Right. Are you stable enough? Do you guys know each other enough before you get commentary? Like, I'm not famous. And that's nice in terms of people don't have much to say about my relationships. Well, it's nice because you're known for something of your profession. Like a lot of people, for example, who come out of the bachelor world, a lot of people feel entitled to have, you know, of course. all the information about your relationship and that's i understand it but yeah i think i think you're

right and i think that's that can go for every part of social media right like why am i posting this like i was getting really irritated at trends for a minute because i'm like why are we all copying each other and doing the same thing but then my girlfriend made me literally film like 20 tictox she's like this this is for business like yeah i want to grow my wine label so badly i want it to be people's wine of choice. I want to make it relatable and have fun around it and not snobby. And she was like, this, you have to do some trends. That's just where social media is at. I'm going to order some. I'm going to send you some. And so I think that's now how I need to think of it. Okay, this is to grow my business. This is to like make it fun and relatable. This is to show that my wine is inclusive and for

everybody and there's no snobbiness around it and it's supposed to be fun. And that's where I can have fun on the internet. Like, if I'm in a relationship, I want to keep it private right now. If I want to blow up my wine label, like, do that. So I'm, that's why I'm starting to think of what my intentions are around posting. Am I posting this for attention? Maybe. Maybe sometimes I am. Sure. Maybe sometimes I'm posting it to bring brand awareness to spade and sparrows. Maybe sometimes I'm posting it because I think it's hilarious and people will relate to it. Like, it really is knowing why you're posting. I think so too. And I kind of, I started off, people didn't even know what I look like because it was just word content. Yeah. And then I was like, I actually, sometimes people would be like,

have you heard of the millennial therapist? And I'd be like, yeah. So really? Yeah. Oh, that's cool. And I'd be like, uh-huh, here she's the worst. Um, they're like, really? I'm like, no, it's me. Hi. Nice to be you. Nice to meet you. And that was really fun for a long time. And it really preserved my privacy. And then there was a moment where I was like, I actually, this means so much to me that I want people to get to know me for me and I want them to know the source of the content that they're ingesting and so I'm kind of on this journey of actually putting my face out there and connecting in a really new way which makes me super excited so I know a lot of people are trying to sort of post less and I'm like I'm trying to post more I think I have a weird relationship with it because I'm like

I want to post less yeah but I know that posting more is going to help me achieve certain goals that I want. Of course. So again, it's like I don't want to use something to monetize in a phony way. But I want to make people laugh. I want to like, you know, just grow the things that I already have. So it's so, social media is such a confusing relationship for me. Like it's for everyone. Yeah. Like if we're being honest. And I think it's just people are talking about, oh, it really bothers me or my mental health suffers when a post doesn't do well. Right. Or, you know, and I always ask, why did you post it, right? And if your why is not bigger than just pure likes, you're in trouble.

Like your relationship with media is going to be a really toxic one, an abusive one almost. Yeah. But if there is like, hey, I wanted one person to relate to this or I wanted to get someone to think about something or I wanted to show that I was human and express myself, then I think it can be a really beautiful thing. Yeah. I want to talk about self-esteem versus self-confidence. Yeah.

So you mentioned an important distinction between self-esteem and self-confidence, which is something I think a lot of people don't realize that there are two very different things. It's kind of like when I said to my therapist, I'm like, at least I'm self-aware, right? And she was like, you're self-reflective. And I was like, I'm going to use that. That's so good. That's good. So can you explain this a little more, the self-esteem versus self-confidence to me?

Sure, yeah. Self-esteem is the value that you think you hold as a human being. Right? Self-confidence is how competent you are and your skill set to do something. Yes. I am self-confidence. I have self-confidence and I lack self-esteem. Yeah. And most people just complate the two. They're like, and so for me, your self-esteem is worth a lot more. Totally. You can fail and still be like, I have value as a human being. Oh, yeah. I fail and I go, you f*** loser.

Yeah. No, it's so hard. And you're like, you're worthless. Nobody loves you. No one wants to be around you. whatever the narrative is, and it's such a harsh thing, but I think self-esteem is something we need to preserve, and our output is not our worth. And we just need to remember that, that we have value outside of whatever we're trying to achieve. And we need to remember that in our relationships, at work, you're a human being, you're a precious, unique, wonderful, complex essence that is gracing this earth for, what, 80 years? How cool is that? And nothing can take that away except you you're the only one that can really take away your own value by the way that you how crazy yeah we're the only person that can take that away and we're doing it to ourselves and we're taking it away i always say like

you don't need to earn your value yeah you just need to recognize it yeah that's our job is to inherent value confidence comes and goes yeah and it should not be connected to our self-esteem and it's like wow i suck at this great it's a skill i need to learn yeah yeah has no reflection on who I am as a human. And I, when I started having that, like, differentiating these two things, it really helped me because I was like, okay, my confidence is really lacking right now. But that doesn't mean I have to attack my esteem. And so I think we need to talk about it as two different things.

It's so interesting that you say that because it's like, I know that, but just hearing it said and spelled out like that in front of me. I'm like, that's so true because that's why I love doing inner child work. That's why I've done so much inner child work. is because I want to find myself esteem, and I've slowly but surely been just making, you know, like over small shifts, making massive shifts. Yeah. But it's because I do, I go, if I have this, I have this, and I do this, and I do this,

and I look this way and I get this, then I'm worthy. Yeah. When really it's like, I'm already worthy, period. Imagine. Yeah. Imagine if we thought that way when we're talking to someone. we're interested in someone we're dating someone we're in a relationship and just having the sense of like I'm enough I'm worthy it would change her dynamic so drastically do you think that's possible

yeah I think so you do you think it's fully possible for someone to be like I am enough I have like fully and believe it I don't think they'll be consistent forever but I think we'll have those moments yeah okay that's fair because I've had those moments I've had those moments yeah they feel freaking good they feel so good oh they feel so good and we need to remember how good they feel yeah because it's like something we can give ourselves. We actually can't really get self-esteem from others. And that's also an important thing. No one can make you love yourself.

Right. Yeah. So let's stop trying. We all think that too. We all think that we can love ourselves if the internet loves us. If our parents love us, if the best friend loves us, the relationship. It's like, the public loves us. It just doesn't work that way.

It actually works the opposite. Like you'll be in a very dark place if you rely on that. Let's talk about breakups and existential crisis. It's something that I know so many of my listeners will be interested in is breakups. You know when I do like a Q&A on Instagram. People are always curious. I think they just know like I've gone through enough of them now that they're like, give me advice. You say that breakups can trigger an existential crisis.

I know firsthand how true that is. So why do breakups feel so painful and life altering even when we know the relationship wasn't right for us? A lot of it boils down to us losing ourselves in that relationship. So what happens is it becomes so threatening to break up. It becomes so hard because you're not just ending a relationship with someone. It's you don't know who you are outside of that relationship. And it's so incredibly scary. And it also alters like the way the person you thought you would be.

So for example, for me, I remember getting a divorce. That was huge because I was like, I thought I was going to be a wife. Right. Being a divorcee in your mid-20s. was not hot like it was not it was not hot and I remember everyone being like not everyone a couple of people being like you know you'll probably never date again oh my god so you said that to you they sure did and I was like wow okay thanks for that didn't end up being true but I think there's this shift of like I thought I was a wife right I thought I was someone who was just going to spend

the rest of my life life with this person I have edited myself so much to fit into this relationship, and now without it, I don't actually know who I am. And so being alone makes you face a lot of hard things. And it's why we spiral. Yeah. And so I think it's threatening only when we didn't have a healthy relationship to begin with. Yeah. Yeah. If we had a healthy relationship where we preserved our sense of self and autonomy and authenticity and freedom and choice and all these wonderful things, I actually think you'd be less painful. Then you would just have to mourn the person, the connection, the future you saw with them. You're right. I always think of it as just grief but it's so much more than that yeah it's actually a threat to your existence damn it's why

breakups are so painful and so hard and i when people boil it down to like you're grieving someone or it's just letting go it's like no that is not you have now deconstructed your identity well and that's huge it's got chills again that's crazy because i i i always like a deeper something like i'm always searching for deeper something deeper meaning little and i've been I've always thought, like, that the grief of it was so much deeper because I'm like, you're grieving this person, you're grieving, but you're right. It's even deeper than the grief. Holy shit. Yeah. And I mean, grief is present, I think, with the deconstruction and the threat. Grief is there all the time. But I think it's why it's so intense. And I, we don't even talk about that in terms of breakups. To me, it's such an existential question of like, who are you now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because even when you spend, let's say you spend two years with somebody. Yeah. you've adapted so many of their beliefs, their thoughts. We take on so much more than we think we do. Yeah.

And I remember I was in two relationships. I've always known I wanted to get a doctorate, for example, a silly example. And I had two relationships with people that were like, you only want to do it because you're stuck up and pretentious. And one person went as far as saying, you can only get your doctorate if I get mine first. And I remember going through this crisis of like, okay, education is a huge value of mine. I've always been an academic. I care about it, but like, are they right? Should I not care about it?

Like, it was just, it sounds silly now. But in retrospect, I was like, I had people who were like, you're not allowed to do this if you're going to be in a relationship with me. And that's such a wild thing that you bring on. And then in your next relationship, you're like, I'm scared to tell them I got accepted into my doctoral program, which is insane. If listeners are going through something like a breakup right now or getting out of that rut, what would you say to them?

right in which way because that's a really general question how do you define a rut as i said it i was like that that could mean anything yeah let's just go with breakup like if they're in if they're in the breakup right now they're in that rut of like who am i yeah i've lost myself what do i do without this person what advice would you give them be super patient be gracious you might not know who you are and that's okay i think there's also an obsession i mean i literally wrote a book on how to figure out who you are. But I think that is a fluid process. I don't think the sense of self is ever static. And so you're constantly, if you're an aware individual, going to be asking yourself that question, almost on a daily basis. And that's great because that means you're going to be more intentional. I don't think the self

is something that we find. This is important. I think a lot of people like, well, I need to go back to who I was before this relationship, or I need to find myself, or maybe my inner child has the answer, sorry. And sometimes she does. Yeah, she does. And she has so much insight. Yeah, yeah. And yet I think the self is always becoming. And I think it's something that we create, not something we find. And what I mean by that is like, if you don't know who you are right now, try things. Have you watched Runaway Bride? This is the example. I love her. I mean, yeah. So do you know that scene where she's fighting with the reporter toward gear? And he goes, you're so lost, you don't even know what kind of eggs you like. And she goes, I'm not lost.

It's just called Changing Your Mind. And he's like, it's not changing your mind. You just don't have one of your own. And she's like super offended. But then a couple of scenes after, she's at home. The reason he said this is because she always pretended to like the type of eggs that her partner's liked. Right. There's a scene that's powerful in her kitchen where she made dozens of eggs and is just at our kitchen table by herself trying them.

Figuring out what does she actually want. And so whoever is like feeling really overwhelmed at this. time and feeling this existential dread after a breakup it's like just try the eggs I like that test try you'll know what feels like you and you'll know what you'll be like do I want to be this person right the answer is no don't do it right but sometimes we just have to try like we think we're gonna know miraculously who we are without any like failing and to me it's like that's too much pressure just try the eggs yeah just figure it out be like am I a morning person am I do these beliefs suit me is this representative of who I want to be

Is it going to get me there? We all have this, I feel like we all struggle with this thought of who we want to be instead of who we actually are and owning that, like exactly kind of that example from the movie. They like whatever the partner likes. It's so powerful to actually just sit there and think of what makes me happy. What do I like? Am I, like you said, a morning person? Like there's so many things that we could just get to know about ourselves.

And it's just who we are. And that's. and if you don't like like it change it yeah the thought of going back to who i want to be who i was before the relationship you're never going to that's not going to happen no that's not how life works yeah so what have you learned from that so you don't want to be that person you actually want to be a more evolved version of yourself and you only will be by going through what you've already gone through so lean into that and what do you do next that person got you into that relationship yeah you know and i don't think the solution's ever in the past.

And I think when we think that, such a dangerous mindset. So it's like, try it. If you don't like what you see, if you look in a mirror, you're not proud of that person. You don't like that person. Own it.

Be like, this is me right now. It doesn't have to be that way. Yeah. Damn. That's good. I'm learning so much already. But I'm like, yeah. We really are all feeling lonely.

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Because I feel like we're all just moving into this. phase in our lives of knowing there's something greater, like more to be learned about ourselves and like we're really questioning existence. And I feel like that could be lonely. Super lonely, especially if you're not bringing that conversation up. Chances are most people are having an existential crisis. Yeah. We're just not talking about it because it's not sexy. It's not positive. It's not all these things we think we should be doing or a lot of us feel

shame. We're like, we're journaling and we're reading self-help books and we're meditating and I still feel this way. And I want to be like, yeah, because. that's being human. I think psychology has kind of set an unrealistic expectation lately, like pop psychology. And I think it's an issue where this is why I love existentialism because it's like life is kind of absurd, kind of sucks. What are we going to do about it? And I'm like, I'm so much more comfortable with that. That's so true. Gosh, the amount of times that it's like, and I do all those things. I journal, I meditate. It helps. I get it. Yeah. But we are putting like, and I love that we're all talking about mental health and all of these things.

But now we need to stop like, we always overdo it as a society. We always take things too far, don't we? It's become, yeah, yeah, like over-correcting. Now we feel shame when we don't do these things and don't have these like 17-hour morning routines. And people be like, what do you do, Sarah, in the morning? I was like, I don't have a routine. And like the shock and disgust that people have. Do you know what I mean?

I'm like, I travel so much. I'm in different time zones, several times a month. like I do things that ground me but it's the expectations are too high we're hurting each other we're misusing terms we're putting pressure on let's just like stop let's be in the gray let's just know we're all kind of suffering and trying our best and that's probably okay could you imagine if we all just owned that oh my god imagine if you're like I'm not perfect god I want to like I want to the like reddit's reddit community to like understand that and be like you guys are hurting hey guess what we all

are like how can we support each other instead of tearing each other down yeah and let's stop like putting people on a pedestal oh and over-analyzing and studying and if that's how much time you're spending on someone else it means you're not spending enough on yourself 100% like people like did you see that so-and-so and I was like no yeah no healthy relationships let's talk about yes the three main ingredients that you think is for healthy relationships which is responsibility authenticity and freedom. Yes. Preach!

Like those three things, I've never thought of the responsibility aspect of it, but like the authenticity, freedom, and responsibility. Like, how can we make sure that we're incorporating these elements into our own relationships? Yeah. So I'll often hear one-sided stories from girlfriends, guy friends, clients, and I'm like, this is what happened. And even if it seems to me at first glance that it's a, 100% someone else's fault.

I have done this job for too long to truly believe that's true. Of course. And then I'll go. It can't be. No. So to a client or a friend, I'll be like, it depends how direct I am. Right. Depending to who I'm speaking with.

But I'd be like, if you had to assign yourself responsibility, I call it the 5% responsibility rule, even if it's half a percent or 5%, what would it be? Because chances are you're not a 0%. So tell me what are you responsible for in that. change in that breakup. People don't think that way, right? People often don't go, oh, how did I contribute? Even if it's half a percent, how did you contribute? Now, of course, I'm not talking about like abusive relationships. Of course. That is not what I'm talking about. But everyday dynamics, it's like, check yourself. And when we start to take responsibility for our relationships,

it's when we start having healthy relationships. And the fact that you can go to your partner and go like, hey, I really, can I swear? Yeah, please. Okay, I shut up. Yeah. this is what I'm owning. Yeah. Then they are more likely to do the same. Yeah. And blame and responsibility are not the same thing. Responsibility is empowering.

It's ownership. I think it's sexy. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's amazing and it's the only way to move forward. And so it's like, what are you owning? It's so hard. Why is it so hard to do it in the moment?

I think because often what happens is when you take, let's say you're like, I'm 30% and wrong. When you take the 30%, sometimes the other person wants to give you the other 70. and then we're like, or maybe we've never seen our parents take responsibility. Or, you know, we have an aversion to responsibility as a society almost, right? Because it's like we feel like that's blame. And so I think it's modeling the behavior we want to see. And it's also going like, you are part of the problem.

So if you want a healthy relationship, change your part of it. Yeah. I find it empowering. And authenticity is a huge one. We compromise that. we're like, who do we think they want us to be? Great, I'll become that person. That's the self-esteem issue a little bit.

That's also the expectation. And so I think if you preserve your authenticity, they're going to have such a better time. Otherwise, who are they having a relationship with? Right. Like with an illusion, with a projection, with a what? And so genuine relationship has to be between two authentic individuals. Yeah.

And then when you feel like you're becoming more yourself through the relationship, beautiful. And you are going to evolve. It's actually really tricky because if you think about a relationship, it's like two cars that need to move at the same speed in the same direction. Right. That is incredibly difficult to achieve. And you can only achieve that with communication and taking responsibility.

Yeah. And giving each other the freedom to actually evolve. Because a lot of people are like, well, you're not the person I married. You're not the person I started dating. It's like, thank God. That was eight years ago. Like, do you want me to be that person? Like, I don't understand.

So also having this expectation that like we will change and evolve. As long as it's in the right direction. Exactly. And if it's not, then that's when you're like, hey, we're no longer moving in the same direction or at the same speed. We call that out. We honor it.

And we go, I want you to pursue that if that's who you want to be, but just not with me. God. I wish we could all have your brain. You're so sweet. What? No, I'm sorry. I would like, could you imagine if we all could think that way?

Like in the world and relationships, it's just, I mean, the whole, you know, kind of idea of this. podcast has been the who am I? Why am I single? Why am I unhappy in a relationship? Why am I this? Why, why, why, why? And I think a lot of people do struggle with those big questions. Those are big questions. Of course. So the who am I? The why am I still single or even the why am I stuck in unhappy relationships. How do you help guide people through finding these answers? So the who am I I, I don't think can be answered verbally. Let me explain. That's something you talk about in my book,

actually because the second I ask someone who are you, they're going to tell me about their habits, their roles, they're going to, their accomplishments. And for me, the only answer to who am I is how you show up in the world. That's it. You want to see who you are? Watch yourself. That is who you are in this moment. You like it. You don't like it. I don't care. That is who you are. And you're like, but deep down, I'm this other version. It's like, no, no, that's who you want to be. But in this very moment, you are exactly who you're, presenting we like that sometimes we don't like that sometimes but there isn't an alternative you I don't believe there is a perpetual you there is a you that will come after this that

maybe you like more but unfortunately in this moment you're exactly who you are sitting on that chair right that's who you are and so that's the answer to kind of that question because I think it can be quite simple I like that and then like why am I single I mean that's it's I would say What is your role in being single? And I don't know why you're saying. Also, people have this expectation that they need to not be single. Feel free to cut that out or keep it. I'm like, why are you single?

I don't know. Let's talk about it. I mean, again, that's a very personal question. Yeah, I'm like, I don't know. There's literally a trillion reasons why somebody could be. Yeah. Maybe you're avoidantly attached. Right.

No, I don't know. It's something that like people need to sit with with themselves. to ask and I think a lot of people well yeah that's it I think a lot of people think single bad oh my God why I don't know this is another thank you for bringing this up I don't think romantic relationships are a the most important relationships who ever have and we need to stop that notion otherwise our friendships are going to suffer our family relationships are going to suffer and it just doesn't make sense second of all why do we have this notion the single people are unhappy. Some of the happiest people I know are alone. Truly. Intentionally.

Truly. And I love that. And I'm like, maybe you don't want to be with someone. And that's also, okay, so let's start talking about it. I think it's so interesting. And I do think it's, I do think it's a generational thing of what parents have, you know, their beliefs or certain things. But I, and I do think people are, you know, starting to figure it out. Freeze your eggs. Choose yourself. Find out what makes you happy. Like I do think there is something to be said about that happening, but it's just, you know, you've got that older drunk uncle who will say something at dinner about why are you you, you know, like, there's the family dynamics of people. Or like, you can't possibly be happy. Yeah. Right. Like I have like, I have people like I'm out tuned. They're like, you didn't remarry?

Like, are you okay? Right. Like, yeah, thanks. Mind blowing. Okay. Talk to me about your book. Sure. Where can people get it? What can they expect when they read it? Okay. So I would say has a little mirror on the book. I love that. And it's titled, it's on me. So what you can expect is a lot of hard truths in a very loving way. And I think it's about self loss. It's about what happens when you lose yourself. And there's a bit of my own journey of looking in a mirror and literally not recognizing who I was and being so incredibly miserable when I weren't thought I was very happy. And so if you're someone who is like, I don't know how to answer who am I and I'm not really sure how to get in touch with that person that's what the book is about genius thank you yeah I feel like when people listen to this podcast they're going to be like yeah need more so book is a great great way to do it yeah great night so where can people get the book and when is it coming out the book is out you can literally get it anywhere books are sold and you can get a kindle you can get an audio version if you want me like talking in your ear

oh that sounds nice yeah just like hours oh thank you yeah so yeah it's out in the world and it's something I'm really proud of. I was going to say you must be so proud of it. I am very proud of it. And I think it's the book I wish I had. That to me is the way I want to show up in the world. Like even for myself, for other people, I want to be an act and have discussions like this to be what I would have wanted.

Yeah. To show up now even on this podcast, I want to be able to have conversations with people like yourself with people that, you know, come off reality TV and they didn't really actually get to decide on what their voice sounded like they have an edited version of themselves and they get to like explain themselves. I just like anything that's feel good. And every single time, let me tell you this, every time I talk about somebody else in a negative way, it somehow comes background and it either makes a headline or it doesn't feel good or it's, I leave being like, I don't like talking about other people in a negative way. And I feel like that's really hard to do.

but do you have any proof almost that gossiping is bad for your mental health? I mean, the shit you say about people says more about you than them. Yeah. Like. Because I, and correct me if I'm wrong. Once in a while with your girlfriend to just have a little vent session. People love to bond through gossiping. Yeah, they sure do.

They sure do. Because it's like, ooh, we hate the same person. Yeah. It's almost like triangulation. It's like bringing someone else into your relationship so you can feel closer together or to each other through hating someone else. Right. And for me, it's like,

If you don't want the shit set about you, don't say it. Why are you saying it's usually jealousy and insecurity? Maybe you just want to project onto them. You had a really shit day, so now you're going to bitch about a celebrity. Right. Just because you need to get it out of your system. So a lot of it is like, why? And sit there and venting, fine.

But venting is like something is happening. It's your experience. Yeah. If it's not your experience, then it's gossip. Yeah. And I think it's really important to be like, why am I doing this? and what am I trying, what need am I trying to fulfill? I always think about the moment that people get, like, let's say I make it to 100

and I get on my deathbed. Yeah. I wonder if I'll be like, I think I've got it figured out now or I'll still be like, nope. I think at that point I'd be like, I don't give a shit. Literally was like, do I, do I not? I mean, that's why they say, bye. 40s is a new 30, 50s, the new 40s, because you stop giving as much of a shit. This is actually so true.

You know, I see 20-year-olds and I'm like, thank God. I'm not there anymore. Like, 30s feel so good because the amount of that you give is so much less. Oh, I turn 40 in, well, so it'll be next year technically, because June. And I, I'm not even, this is so exciting. I'm not even dreading it. Why would you be dreading it? Well, because people make me, people make you believe that like, oh, you're not married with babies and you're almost 40.

And I'm like, I'm actually excited because I think that will be the year that maybe I, you know, that might happen for me or that's what I'm striving towards. Like, I'm excited for it. I think that's the next chapter of my life. I'm very excited for your next chapter. Thank you. Whatever that is. I'm excited for your book and I'm excited to read it and tell everybody where they can find you. You can find me on Instagram.

millennial. Therapist is my handle. And then substack, it's called notes for my phone because I'll often pick up my phone and write down notes and things I'm thinking about. So that's longer form. If my phone ever got broken into and they saw the notes. Oh, no, no, no, no. Yeah, same.

Please don't break into my phone. We're like inviting people to break into it. Oh, I'm like, oh, God, I'm changing every possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cut this part out. Just kidding. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me.

And also, I know you talked about the impact we want to create. This podcast is it. It's doing so much. It's giving people a voice. It's giving people information. It's making people like me fall in love with everything you're doing. And it's just, it's an honor being here. Thank you.

Thank you. I truly, like, when I meet somebody, I was just in Niagara. And these two girls were sitting at the bar. and they're like, we're vinos. And those words come out of people's mouths, and I, like, instantly feel love towards them because I'm like, you are why I do what I do. This is my favorite thing to do.

I love meeting people because I usually just get to stare at a couple cameras, and I've had this, you know, intimate conversation where we don't have our phones and we're just in the moment having this, like, amazing dialect. Dialect. Why would dialect? I knew when I said it. I was like, that ain't right.

You were so close, though. That ain't right. Dialogue. And to meet people, I'm like, oh, right, there's other people on the other side of this. And I just hope I'm, like, bringing some sort of joy to their day. You are. You are. And to my day.

Thanks. Well, thank you. I think the community that we've, I don't want to just say me, that we've all created and brought together, I feel like this stuff is important to them. So thank you. Thank you. I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now ending.

And if I'm being honest, I wouldn't mind a rating. We'll be.