Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Drew Afualo | Roasting Misogyny Loud and Unfiltered

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

#756. Join Kaitlyn Bristowe on Off the Vine as she sits down with Drew Afualo, the internet's crusader for women. Known for her viral takedowns of misogyny, Drew shares her journey from losing her job to becoming a viral sensation. Discover the red flags she spots in men, her take on the power of words like "fat," and why she believes her platform is a safe haven for women. Plus, hear who Drew would roast from history and her thoughts on building a community that challenges patriarchal norms. Don’t miss this empowering and hilarious conversation! If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE! EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: (4:01) – Identifying red flags in men. (6:56) – Reclaiming the word "fat" and redefining respect. (37:14) – Historical figures Drew would roast. Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these deals! QUINCE: Go to Quince.com/vine for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. SKIMS: Shop the SKIMS T-Shirt Shop at SKIMS.com. Now available in sizes XXS - 4X. Progressive: Quote at Progressive.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hey everybody, welcome to Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow. Sydney got to sit in on the podcast today. Yes. And we got to meet Drew Afalo, who, like, she walked in here and meant business. I was like, she feels like a strong. She meant business, but also was, like, really fun. Yeah.

I didn't realize she was such. a comedian as well she was so funny she's a renowned content creator women's rights advocate she is a podcast host an author she's known for her viral roasts of misogynist men online which i love she uses her humor to challenge the patriarchy which is chef's kiss and uh she's got a new book coming out called loud except nothing less than the life you deserve she's also about to go on a comedy tour. I wish I could go. Yeah, I know, I wish you could, too.

I feel like she was a very fascinating guest, and she has a lot of really important things to say. 100%. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Of course. Thank you for having me. Of course. And you're born and raised in Southern California.

Yes. And where do you live now? I live in L.A. Amazing. Do you love it? Yeah. Yeah. That's all right.

That's convincing. Yeah. That's all right. It's L.A. Yeah, I go back and forth on it. I love coming to visit, and I love coming to do podcasts here. I just don't know if I could live here one because I'm cheap. I feel that.

I'm like, I live in Nashville, and so I feel like it's a lot more affordable. Better fit for you. Better fit for me. I'm more of a country gal anyways. Sounds like it. Does it? Is that where you're from? No.

I'm Canadian. Are you really? So is my age in Alex. Really? Yeah. Oh my gosh. So this is my 16-year-old niece. I always have to point out your age.

I don't know why. We both grew up in Ladook, Alberta, just outside of Edmonton and Canada. Where are you from? Vancouver. Oh, I lived there for 11 years. Yes. I worked at the Cactus Club, Earl. Oh, oh.

Every time I meet a Canadian, I'm like, my agent's Canadian. Yeah. I'm constantly. Every time. And everyone from the States thinks, oh, Vancouver or Toronto. I'm like, there's other places. Yeah. I'm always like, ask her or she knows.

That's amazing. Well, I'm really excited to talk to you, and I want to know if you can share with us and the listeners how you got started in content creation and what inspired you to begin roasting misogynist online. Oh, yeah. I'm like, yes. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I got started because I got fired from my job, and then COVID hit, like, two weeks after I got fired.

Oh, my gosh. Everyone's at home, and everyone was on TikTok, and I'm 28. I'm going to be 29. So at the time, I was like a million, even now I'm still a million in TikTok years. Like, they really think I'm an old person on that app. And so I just started posting videos because my boyfriend encouraged me to, and he was like, I just think it would be a nice, like, creative thing for you. because I you know when you're in your early 20s like you just bitch and moan about everything yeah of course so I was like everything's annoying everything's irritating so that's how I kind of got started I'm 39 I still feel that way yeah I just kind of started making videos that way and then as far as how it like streamlined to just men or awful men who exist on the internet I don't really know why that happened I think it just I was telling silly stories that had to do with like dating men and my own like ideology on them and then I did one video that really like took off and that's when it kind of narrowed my niche. Which was what? Tell me about that one video that took off for you.

My first, the first video I ever had that I actually like did numbers was talking about my boyfriend and that he, for Valentine's Day that year, got me a gift of like, he found me a private nail tech and like paid for six months in advance and included tip and like sent her pictures of stuff that I like and surprised me with that gift. And so that was the first video I had made that did kind of well. And so a lot of women were like, oh wow, like my boyfriend, you know, I wish I my boyfriend did a gift like that, like that kind of stuff. And then right after that, I did a video probably like a week or two later where someone said,

what are some very specific red flags in men that you have? And so I had a whole list of like 10. And then I listed them all out. And that was my very first video to like go viral. Tell me the red flags. Oh, there was a ton. I had like, if you wear a backwards hat in the pool, you have loyalty tattooed on the arm, don't wear sunblock, love wolf of Wall Street.

All a lot. Like it's very like Connie West is your favorite rapper Like there's something about that is off You know It disturbs my spirit Yeah If you know you know I get it

Like I would have never thought of that That's the same guy That's the same guy who has He's like a little too rough with pinatas You know what I mean It's like why are you in the line You're not a child Like he's that guy

That guy doesn't respect women That is so That guy doesn't respect women so Funny Yeah And a lot of women were like like super into it obviously and a lot of people just in general who date men and then at the same time I had a lot of men who like were mad as hell at me about that video and so they said they're the

ones wearing backwards hats and my bad yeah I'm like okay you're like struck a nerds two times it's a pattern yeah what do you call it when you all do it science so sorry I'm like you're just naturally all awful okay oh my gosh so are you still with the same guy yes wow cool so like if you guys were to ever break up, would you be blamed just because you're the woman? Yeah, absolutely, I'm sure. The internet would absolutely be like, oh, it's probably because she's awful,

which is so funny because I dated, I was already dating my boyfriend for, I think, three or four years at the point when I grew a platform. Yeah. So we've been together for a long time. Now it's going on seven years, so, yeah. Do you think you are seeing any sort of a shift

or change in that, or is it still terrible? I think it's still terrible I think they just get more creative on how they do it So they kind of change the verbiage Of what it is they say But the underlying message is still the same Or they just block me prematurely So I can't see it

So they're getting a little bit smarter But that's not saying much It's more so they're getting more afraid of me So they're trying to hide Like roaches Roaches I just shine a light they scatter That's what they do

God I feel this so hard So many things you've already said I'm like holding myself back from bowing down to you. You speak about men with fatphobic viewpoints. Now, what are some things that you say regarding this? As far as, like, in regards to their fat-fobics. A lot of times I just tell the people they attack, which is most often women.

And they, like, when men don't agree with what you say or they don't like something that you said, the first thing they do is call you fat and ugly. That's the first thing. It doesn't matter what size you are. It doesn't matter how big you are. It doesn't matter. Like, if you're black, white, Asian,

It doesn't, none of that matters. Like, whether you have hair, short hair, long hair, like, big ears, no ears. Like, it really doesn't matter. Yeah. You could be the most beautiful bitch on the planet. And, like, if you say something that a misogynistic man doesn't agree with, he's going to call you ugly and he's going to call you fat. Yeah. So what I've told people before is that the word fat is not a bad thing.

It's not a bad word at all. It's a descriptor. Sociologically, we've given that word a lot of power and a lot of negativity. And it's very denigrating because of what we've taught each other. So if you take the power. from it and you understand that being fat is not a bad thing first of all and second of all it's not an indicator of whether or not you deserve love or respect or to be treated as an equal then it can't hurt you anymore so men will say that no matter what like men have been saying that about me for

years obviously but even in like the second year of me doing this i i'm good friends with emily raticowski who's arguably a one of the most beautiful women on the planet she's not fat by any means yeah and not even little well i went on her podcast and we made content to together. And when I posted it, I had men going like, well, she's fat and ugly. Amrata? Have you lost your mind? Like that's why I was like, oh, word? Okay, cool. So it is just whoever you just don't like.

And the only reason they said that to her was because she was hanging out with me. So that's my point is like, it means nothing. But men like that who see women as lesser than, they believe women are vapid in their very nature. So they truly believe that the meanest thing they could ever say to you is call you fat and ugly because they think

women hold all of their worth and validation and what they look like. But specifically how they're perceived by men. So if I don't give a fuck what men think about my looks, then it can't hurt me when they call me ugly. Because if man calls me ugly, I'm like, okay, so are you. Yeah. You don't want to fuck me.

I don't want to fuck you either. Right. Same page. We have a lot in common. We should be friends. Let's hang out more. I always think that way even with trolls when they're like, oh, my God, I hate you, blah, blah, I'm like, well, I wouldn't want to be friends with you either.

Yeah. Well, they're like, I would never date you. Okay, same. Right back at you. Yeah, not even on your best day would I ever date you. Yeah. I think we're aligned. Yeah, aligned.

Our goals are aligned. Aligned, and I don't even need to say it. So, like, yeah. I don't need to tell you that. You'll never be in a room where I'm at, so you don't need to worry about that. I'm spoken for, so don't worry about dating me. I'm chilling, go. So how did you meet your boyfriend?

High school, actually. Really? Yeah, we've just known each other since high school, but we didn't start dating until after college. And is he just, obviously, aligned with everything you believe in too, and just an angel? Yeah, sometimes my boyfriend tells me, I think he could get, like, be meaner. I think you could have gone harder. And I was like, damn, okay. Yeah, like the thing about that is my boyfriend is a very attractive

and what people would perceive to be a masculine man. But my boyfriend has the exact same morals and beliefs that I do, obviously, we're a couple. So it's ironic because men are like, oh, well, she's probably single. Wrong. Okay, well, her boyfriend's probably ugly. Wrong. Oh, he's probably short and bald. Wrong.

He's probably so, like, broke and not wrong. You're so wrong. It's crazy. I'm a catch That's why I have a catch So how do you get that confidence Like it's just in general Yeah

I don't know I mean I think we all want to look at ourselves as a catch Like deep down I know I am But I sometimes lie to myself And try and find things that are wrong with me I think that's natural though I think that's just a human That's a natural human feeling

But more specifically for women I think women are constantly conditioned To believe that they can always be better And always improve And men are not conditioned that way Yeah Women are always like, I need to be better, I need to be smarter, I need to be thinner, I need to be prettier, and more specifically, I need to make him feel like a man, but not too much.

Like, and I need to make sure that I'm independent, but not too much. And I need to make my own money, but not too much. Like, that's how women are constantly course correcting. Men don't move that way. Yeah. So if we're being honest, I just started thinking, like, how men do. And look how it's worked out. Really great.

Like, did you just start studying men and how they behave and how they act? Like, how are you like, I got to think like a man? No, no. I was, I'm being silly. Honestly, I think more than anything, I just started learning to love myself outside the confines of a man. Yeah. So, like, regardless of what they think I'm going to do what I like and pursue what I want and live the life that I've always believed I deserve. And so that kind of confidence, I think, I've had a, like, borderline delusional confidence from a very young age.

But I also think at the same time that I, it was like a perfect storm of how I was raised, like, culturally speaking, how I was raised to. And I have both my parents are in my lives. my parents are high school sweethearts and been together forever and I think all of that combined with like the confidence I already had just kind of led me to a place where I have very high standards for myself and for my partner so you know I don't lower them not even a little bit I don't I never entertained lowering them I did I date scrubs of course I did that's a ride of passage unfortunately but like that's the difference is like I cut that shit off as soon as I got something I didn't like or I felt like it was less than what I deserved and like that's how men

move all the time so you know I didn't start thinking like a man I started thinking about myself outside of a man like who am I outside of what a man thinks of me I love that and so like that just if anything doing this just grew my conviction I was like oh so I was right yeah yeah there's peace in that there's peace in that well and confidence like leads people to like be the most beautiful person in the world like it's purely confidence it really doesn't matter beauty is so subjective and it's impermanent, like beauty fades with time. And it's also so subjective, like what people find beautiful or attractive is so specific to the person.

And so I don't worry about that because what I draw validation from has nothing to do with what I look like, let alone what a man thinks of me, shit. No, that has nothing to do with it. Do you think it's conditioning for these men, like generationally, or do you think... To be awful? Yeah. absolutely it's the patriarchy like it's it's misogyny is is embedded within the patriarchy it's taught to us at a very young age we're all misogynistic when we're born and I've told people like it's not our fault if we're born into that sociologically it is our fault if we die that way though because it's our job to unpack it and unlearn it and let it go so some men haven't singing a Taylor Swift song and she yelled patriarchy okay period and I was like do you know what that means and she was like what did you say I thought oh I thought it was a football

team. She goes, is that a football team? In essence, it is. Yeah. It's a big team of men who are awful. So I told her the definition in the description, and she looked at me, and she went, well, then, yeah, the Patriarch. And that's on period. Yeah.

That's on period. Yeah. Start them young. You have to. It's really fascinating to see her generation, because I feel like they are starting to learn from, you know, women who have platforms that speak on this, such as yourself. And I think a lot of men are probably afraid of that, but I do believe this next generation, like, we have a little bit of hope for them. Do you agree? Yeah, absolutely.

I think the next, the gift, one of the gifts of the internet is access to information. And having access to information can be good and bad, but also having young women especially see other women existing outside, you know, male judgment, existing outside of gender binaries or sexualities, like existing fully. and authentically as themselves and being independent is a wonderful thing. It's a beautiful thing. Like there are so many women who are older than me who tell me all the time, like, I wish I had someone like you when I was in high school. I wish had someone like you when I was in middle school would have saved me a lot of time. So I think, yeah, there's a ton of hope for younger people in general just to not put up with that bullshit anymore because they shouldn't have to.

They shouldn't have to. Yeah. And I love looking at your achievements, named one of Forbes' top creators of 2023 named one of the time one of time magazines next generation leaders yes incredible official red carpet correspondent for the 2023 academy awards yes host of the podcast the comment section and two idiot girls yes tell me about your podcasts oh yeah so the comment section is my spotify exclusive show which is really great um Spotify partnered with me after like a year of me doing it not even i always think i was like eight months in and they partnered with me which which is incredible and amazing. I love Spotify.

They're such a wonderful partner. And then my other podcast I do with my sister. I actually did before the comment section called 280 girls. And it's a completely different vibe, but it's kind of just sister. Sister shit. It's like the funniest thing ever, as is the comment section. It's more guest driven in the comment section, but both amazing and incredible and very fun and exciting. You have a large audience.

So what kind of feedback do you get from them? because I even notice on my own when I speak up about anything misogyny, anything in that world women come back at me really? Yes! Wow, interesting. But I feel like people would follow you because of your standing up for it

so I'm assuming it's different audiences so what kind of response do you get from your audience? It's overwhelmingly positive, I mean it's like probably like 90-10 positive probably even higher than that but the only the majority of the negativity I get is from men obviously like they hate me Oh, man, they hateing.

Well, thin line between love and hate. I mean, hate and passion. Right. They walk that razor thin line. I'm like, at some point, you've got to admit, you kind of like me. Because you're following me a lot. You're following everything I say. They're like secretly taking in the information to be better, but like don't want to

ever let anyone know that they're learning for a woman. Yeah, some of them for sure. Sometimes I think it's just like they can't tell if they love me or if they hate me. Like, they just can't tell because it's eliciting a very strong emotion from them, which is unpacking. therapy. But as far as women, it's overwhelmingly positive. I mean, for the most part, I do occasionally get hate from women, but it's very rare. And when I do, it's, I can tell that they are struggling with a lot of internalized misogyny, and that's why. And I hold a lot of empathy

for them, but at the same time, they're not my target audience then. Like, if you, you want to do PR for the worst men in the world, by all means, take that from the job. I'm not doing it. Right. So good luck with that, by the way. See how they treat you. It's so hard because I really want to, when I see it happening to me online, like, of course, you go through a public breakup and it must be me, not both of us and we just aren't compatible, it's me, I'm the problem. Yeah. I did not even mean to quote Taylor Swift there. But like, it always is and it's like, how dare I let this go? And it's never like, congratulations.

You did something for yourself. Like, obviously that was the right move. It's just so interesting. Yeah, and parisocially, I think people think they know. Like they think they know everything about you Because they follow you or they followed you for a long time Or they followed both of you for a long time And then when the rumor mill starts turning

It's just like they create the most obscene narratives And a lot of times you're kind of like I don't know where you got that from But that's not true I don't know where you got them And I go oh I'm worried about you Like Or you're like I'm far more interesting

Than I think I thought I was Yeah and I think I'm pretty interesting Yeah you're giving me a lot of credit For something that I definitely have no control over. Yeah, no kidding. I was in my brain before I did my research. I was like, I hope she writes a book. Congratulations on your new book. Thank you. It's called Loud. Yes. Except nothing less than the life you deserve. So can you give us a sneak peek into what readers will take away from it? Yeah, I mean, a lot of what I was just telling you, but I think it's like part memoir, part self-help.

It's like a whole mix of like anecdotal evidence for my own life. It's a lot of like my ideologies and like what I think and believe and why. And I think the book was just a perfect opportunity for me to be able to expand a lot more. It's just like a combo of all of that, I think. And it's something where I got to kind of go into much greater detail about why I feel the way I do about things. And I mean, the first thing, when people come across me online and then they really like my content and then if they meet me in person and we talk, a lot of times, they just like are so curious how I turned out this way. Like, how did you do that? Like, is it family? Is it experience? Is it this? Is it that? So the book was a perfect opportunity for me to show people why I am the way I am and hopefully help them as well, kind of decenterment.

That's the whole goal at the end of the day. Could you explain to us without giving the whole book away why you are the way you are? Sure. Yeah, I mean, it's a perfect storm, like I said earlier, about family upbringing, culture, and then just, I guess, I guess life experience. I do think sometimes it's a little bit of a cheap assumption when people ask me like, oh, did someone just absolutely fuck you over? and that's why you were like, I actually hate men. Yeah. No.

Have you ever hung out with a man just like casually? It's kind of easy to hate them. Like, you ever spent time with one? Like an awful one especially, you're like, man. An awful one especially. I've hung out with some pretty incredible men and I've hung out some pretty terrible men. And I've played out some pretty terrible men. I have a brother.

I have a dad. Like when they say that shit, I hate that. Not all men. Right, right. For me, like, that life experience I had very young because I am a woman who dates men. all of us have that like as soon as we start interacting with them as soon as you go through puberty as soon as you start dating you start having bad experiences with them and so i think all of that just combined with what i knew i deserved and i have a very independent mom like i my sister's here she's older than me and she's a lesbian and so like i was surrounded by strong female women i was surrounded by men who were very supportive of women and open and loving and empathetic so it was just all of that combined, I think, is why I turned out this way. And it worked out. Yeah. I got a kick-ass partner and I get to make fun of them for a living. Win, win. When me. You built a career off

facts. Yeah, and off hurting their feelings. Sorry to say. And standing up for what you believe in. Yeah. I love it. I feel like you have a really strong voice and obviously a strong platform to use your voice and that must feel really empowering. Yeah, it's really great. And like the amount of testimonies I get all the time on all my platforms. about how my content has changed their life, like the major shifts in movements they've made in their own lives. And believe it or not, I do have quite a few fans that are men who really enjoy my content.

And a lot of the women that follow me are married and have kids. And they just, they understand what I'm talking about. And I think past just like sillies and comedy, because obviously I'm a comedian, so like I make a lot of jokes and I like to entertain. And that's a big part of my platform too. But past that, past validating their life experience, I validate their anger.

And their frustration. And it's okay. Like, if you want to be mad at them and be mean as far back, then you should be allowed to be. Yeah. They don't care. Do awful men ever give a shit about your feelings when you guys are fighting? Awful men, no.

Of course they don't. But somehow we have to prioritize theirs. That makes no sense to me. If you're going to be mean to me, I'm going to be mean back to you and now what. Yeah. But they feel entitled to that. Like, men like that, they'll say the most awful, like, vitriolic shit to me. And then I'll make one joke about a bad hairline.

And then they're like, how could you do this? to me that's so f*** up that you would do this to me yep no body shaming oh all of a sudden i've been in a relationship where like so many times they would say something to me and then later in the conversation i'd be like but you just said that you know no i didn't yeah gaslight nice i was like 30 seconds ago you literally no i didn't say that yeah well men say things with no regard like a lot of times they like when women disagree with someone or they a lot of of times when they're having these internal conversations with themselves they're thinking about so many things they're thinking about women are constantly thinking if i said this how would this affect

this person and the people in this room men don't think like that they say whatever the they want as soon as it comes to their brain they say it yeah and women don't have that luxury because when they do that then they're rude or they're bitchy or they're mean or they're you know what i mean there's so many different negative like descriptions attached to women who speak up for themselves and speak their minds. When men do it, it's very like, oh, well, he just knows what he wants. How about both. Yeah, he's just, he's just a boss. It's like that Nikki Minaj quote when she was like, when I say it, I'm a bitch when he says that he's a boss. Like, it's the same shit. It's like, we're doing the exact same thing. But men like that feel super entitled to women's

patience and kindness and graciousness. That's why whenever women cheat in relationships, everyone's like, what a fuck whore. Yeah. Like they say awful shit. When, men she and then women like they're like well what did you do yeah what were you doing that all time like they it's always on her like the focus is always on her it's never on him yep and so it's telling it it bleeds into every aspect of life you really incorporate your humor into like your beliefs too which is cool thank you um and you are embarking on a 21 day tour comedy tour yes can people like find on a website where you're going to I would love to watch you.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. It's at Drew dash off wallow.com. It's The Loud Book Tour, so I'm promoting my book, but my sister and I are doing our podcast live, so it's a comedy show. Cool. And then we're doing 21 dates, 21 cities. It's going to be very fun. It starts July 30th, so. That's awesome.

Yeah. Oh, that's going to be so fun. I love doing, I've done podcast tours before. It's so fun. Yeah. It's so fun to, like, interact with people that, like, follow you and have always been, like, your supportive community. Absolutely. Yeah. So it's, it's like a baby tour last year just to kind of get our feet wet.

Yeah. And it was so fun, so now we're doing 21 dates. That's cool. Are you going to, like, get a bus? Yeah, we have a bus, yeah. We have a whole squad going. We're going to get real close on tour. Oh, yes.

I lived on a bus for three months, once for the Dancing with the Stars tour. Damn. And I honestly thought it would be hell, and I loved every second of it. Really? I mean, that makes me feel good. I didn't like, like, the sleep wasn't great. But I, you really do bond and. Yeah, like, have fun.

Yeah. I love that. You can still have your own little cubbies in space. Totally. When we're like, I need five from you. Yeah, and you get to the city, you get to explore the city. Yeah. That's cool. What do people expect from your live shows?

Lots of giggles. Yeah. Lots of sillies. Sure, I'll be mean to men. Sure. I'll do that on the road. Absolutely. Do it all the time.

So whatever, just a good vibe, I would say more than anything. And my book, lots of talking about my book. Is your book out right now? It comes out July 30th. July 30th. Yes. Okay. Amazing.

And like, obviously, where anyone can find books, they can find yours. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you can go on my website, too. It also has the book on there. And then Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target. Really depends on where you live. But, yeah, for the most part, those are my big ones. Really quick side note. How do you function with those nails? Oh, real easy. Lots of practice. Lots of practice. Yeah, girl. You just got to get your reps in. Oh, my gosh, because I have the shortest nails and I still somehow smash them into walls and, like, destroy my nail underneath. I can hardly wipe my butt. That's because you got, it's like, it's probably because they're so close to your real now. Like when they're in extension like this, you know they're there. Oh, that's true.

I think you forget. So you just get a little crazy. Because I love that. I'm like, I keep staring at your nails are so cool. And I love all your, like, tattoos and jewelry and everything. And I'm like, I could never. I'm just like, how do you pick your nose? Pretty easily.

That's easy. Oh, that's like a scoop. Yeah, absolutely. That's probably the easiest thing to do. I think about the weirdest thing. Sorry, my brain not completely sidetracked. You're fine. Do you come to Nashville for your live show?

Yes, we do. Me forgetting. When? Yes. Sometime in August. Yeah, yeah. Mid-August. Zanis? Are you doing Zanis? I think August 6th.

August 6th. I get back August 5th. Look at us. That sounds like it was written in the stars for us. I am totally going. Yeah, you have to. I love this. You've been called the Internet's Crusader for women. Yeah.

Cool. Yeah. Real Jonah Arc vibe. Period. How do you see your role in the fight for women's rights and like what motivates you to keep going? Oh, I mean, I think my role is a small, a small but integral cog as far as in the social media world. I think a lot of times my, because I weave so much humor into my content, but it's a much deeper and more important message. I think it's really like a pill and cheese for a dog.

Like, if this is what makes you start paying attention to misogy and patriarchy, that's great. I'd love to be an entryway. Yeah. I'm by no means the first. I tell people all the time I'm not the first bitch to be mean to men. I'm not the first woman to dislike the majority of them. I'm not the first person to do any of that. But I think what I've been able to do online is build a community of people

that is 100% decendering men or at least trying to in a lot of different ways. And I feel like my platform specifically is the one table men don't have a seat at. And so by now having a see, you don't have a say. And what I say and what I do and how we operate here. And I run a real dictatorship on my community. So like my community is for us and us. alone like awful men are not welcome here, whether to talk or defend themselves or justify their actions. And so if you don't have a seat at my table, don't worry about what's being served.

That's what I always tell people. So I think I just played, I've just been able to build a community of people who find a lot of courage and strength from my content, which I think is a wonderful and privilege and blessing in a lot of ways. And so I'm just happy that I've been a lot of people's introduction to intersectional feminism. I've been a lot of people's like just conviction or just validation in a lot of ways i exist i think in different on different spaces in people's timelines because some people people are on all different journeys in their journey through feminism and finding who they are outside of a man and everything so everyone's on a different path i think me just getting to be a part of it is such a privilege and a treat i mean we all need

to be educated so much on those topics absolutely bananas but like how do you deal with people just being like oh you're just a man-hater and blah, blah, like... When people say that, I go, you're right. You ever met one? You'd hate them, too. Like, you're right, I do. I hate a lot of men.

I wouldn't say I hate all of them. I haven't met all of them. Yeah. But I hate a majority of them. And so, if that is the case, if that is their perspective, like, most likely, whether they're... However, they identify, they have a lot of internalized misogyny or they believe in misogynistic ideals. Yeah.

That's their journey, not mine. That's between them and God. Girl, unpack it. Like, do what you got to do. I already unpacked mine. So I put mine down a while ago. So if they see me that way Like chances are they don't like me

So there's really nothing I can do Like you can't convince misogynistic men To see you as an equal You can't You literally can't They don't listen so I'm getting the vibe that you really don't Give a shit of people don't like you

No I really don't Especially men I really and I don't know what could be any more clear Like the way that they're like Well you're just making men not like you Yeah that's the goal Yeah I've been trying that for a while My demographic is literally like 973

women and others. And that is an unreal demographic. Like there are so many women that I go that ask me personally and privately, how do I get my demographic to look like that? I don't want men watching me anymore. How do I do that? Mine's 97% and I'm like, yes.

Yeah, I'm literally like, it's really quite simple. Just attack them. Just antagonize them. Nothing makes them hate you faster than that. Yeah. That was my journey. In 10 years, do you think there's going to be, like you can look back and be like,

my work matters, I've made some change, like you'll be able to see it. I hope so. Yeah. I would, I hope, hopefully. Yeah. I tell people all the time, like, I hope that I don't have to do this forever. Like, I hope.

Yeah. My ultimate goal and dream would be that this is no longer necessary because women are allowed to exist freely and openly and be who they are without criticism and violence and judgment for men. Like, I would hope at one point we can achieve that. Yeah. I don't see that happening anytime soon. but a lot of times I tell people like my goal is not to change awful men my goal is to help everyone else de-center them entirely because they are frivolous and unessential in that way like in a lot of ways like awful men we don't need them like there are we we need each other like and one thing women are unbelievable that is building community and and fostering relationships and like cherishing them and uplifting them like women are so so good at that and so we don't need them for that shit we need to focus on us and love ourselves and then if we live an awesome life without a man by our side who gives a shit yeah who cares like you you who cares

yeah as long as you're happy and you're fulfilled and you feel good like that's all that matters that is all that matters god i wish i could think of that more often how i feel is all that you can't read my book it'll help god i'm going to i can't freaking wait to be honest with you i'm like going to have it on, like, my Kindle and in my ears. Period. Yeah. I did do the Audible, so. You did?

Yeah. It's my voice for sure. Well, I feel like you need to. Yeah. You know, like, that's what a lot of people were, they're like, it has to be narrated, right? It has to be. Imagine I picked a man. That's so funny.

Love me so many. Your boyfriend? Yeah. How do you think your heritage has influenced your perspective and approach to your work? Yeah, I mean, I'm Samoan, so I'm Polynesian, and Samoan culture prior to being colonized is matriarchal at its genesis. It's, we've always held women. in very high regard, like most indigenous cultures have. So we didn't have a gender binary.

We had multiple genders prior to being colonized. And so my family is no exception to that rule. Like my mom has always been on equal footing with my dad my entire life. My mom made more money than my dad almost my entire life. So my dad has never cared. In fact, my dad's dream forever was to be a stay-at-home dad because my dad loves being a dad more than anything. And so my mom does too, but my mom loves to work.

And my mom's super independent. and my mom's super, like, confident. And so my parents have always moved in that dichotomy. And so I feel like that, them working in tandem like that was something I always saw. And so I think that plays a huge role, like, combined with, like, the familial aspect of my culture, too. Like, we're very family-based, family-centered. And I have passed my dad. I have lots of men in my life who have been wonderful and amazing and examples of what a, truly what it means to be a man.

And I feel like that idea and that, like, like, the idea. idea and that vision of them that I've seen constantly growing up is not what I saw when I went into the real world and started dating. It's not what I saw when I went online. So I'm not putting up with it. I was like, I know what men are capable of and this is not it. Yeah, it's like you're saying like I know what you're capable of. Why are you not doing it? Yeah. I know what you can be what you can do and what you choose to do are two different things. Right. If you could roast any historical figure, who would you roast and why? Damn. That's a great question. Damn. I don't know. There's a lot of men I hate.

That's just me being honest. I hate Ronald Reagan. Okay. I would celebrity boxing match Ronald Reagan if I could. Topless. You and me. Meet me in the cage, Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan is at the center of most horrible things in this country, and you can Google that. Wait, I just thought of two more. Christopher Columbus, I'd beat the fuck out of him, too. He's probably like 5'5, too. That would be easy.

I would join you on that one. I would double team both of them, just like both of them get in the cage with me. And then Captain Cook. Who's Captain Cook? Captain Cook, he colonnets Hawaii. And he led to the conversation of a lot of Polynesian items, including my own. So Captain Cook, yeah. Yeah, I'd find him on the beach or something.

And then my last question is, who do you look up to as a woman? Ooh, so many people. My sister's one of them. Like my older sister, my mom. I'm like, I guess Alex, and she's here. And Ali, obviously, I was getting there. You didn't let me finish. There are so many women.

I have so many women in my life. Do you have a favorite person that you follow on social media that does kind of the same thing that you do? I don't know. I don't know if I follow anyone that does the exact same thing. I follow so many different people in general that do a lot. Favorite account to follow on Instagram. Ooh, on Instagram. Okay.

Oh, my friend, my friend Alok is one of my favorite accounts to follow. Loak is a non-binary. but they have taught me so much just about like I think the beauty of getting older one of the beauties of getting older is like getting to learn more and understand more and learn how to be a better person and a better like partner and a better just human existing in the world like and so alok has taught me so much and I feel like I know a lot there's a lot that I do know but there's also a lot I don't yeah and aloka has been an activist for fucking years much longer than me and also is a brilliant stand-up comedian. So I think Alok is like my favorite to follow on Instagram. All my friends, sorry. I'm all my friends. I also think I said that was the last question. I have one more. Majority of my listeners are women, maybe a couple men, but for my listeners, like how can they recognize when they have the internal misogyny happening and what they can do about it? Oh, yeah. I mean, I guess they don't know they're doing it. Totally. That's why it's internalized

and they don't realize it. Totally. And I've struggled with that too. I think something that really helps is talking about it out loud right so however you're feeling like when you have negative feelings towards a woman i think talking about it and unpacking it out loud really helps to narrow down what exactly it is that you're upset about because if you really think about it when you talk like let's say there's a woman you're like i she's kind of a bitch and then you really get down to it it's like she is something or does something that i envy and i wish that i could emulate that too and it makes me feel some type of way about myself, therefore I'm writing her off as a bitch.

And I think a lot of times, too, if you think about the things you say about other women that maybe, and I'm not talking about valid conflict, I'm not talking about women who are actually awful people because that does happen to, right? I'm talking about women that haven't done anything to you. A lot of times that's when you're internalized misogyny kicks in. I think just saying it out loud,

if you literally out loud, even if you're alone, just saying it out loud, you're like, is this a valid criticism or am I just being a hater? right like I think if people were more honest with themselves about that feeling and saying it out loud because I've had that too like I say it out loud and I was like damn that does sound misogynistic like would a man say that a lot of times you're like if an awful man was here would he agree with what I said yeah that helps me backpedal a lot yeah it's kind of like if you post of it I've seen this on takes out they're like if you post a video and only men are agreeing with you uh oh delete it uh oh wrong side of history delete right like uh oh hate that delete um I think if you did that in real life that could help a lot and And I think when you, on a personal growth level, if you just unpack where you get your validation from, that always helps. So it's like, what makes me feel good? Does it make me feel good when men tell me that I'm smart and funny and pretty?

Or do I just know I'm smart and funny and pretty? And I walk in that faith and I walk in that belief. I know I'm smart. I know I'm funny. I know I'm pretty. Or do I only feel that way when men tell me I am? And I think when you're like, when you're doing, when you do the personal shit, it makes it a lot easier to not lash out at women. when you unpack a lot of shit you got going on it makes it way easier it helps like us on the

other side too like if i'm getting bullied if my niece is getting bullied if anyone's like being hateful towards you to even think like you know if they could just unpack their own yeah absolutely i've talked about that in the book too i talk about it because i've i have come across women who were very misogynistic towards me and denigrating towards me which is upsetting and i think now that I'm older and I've unpacked a lot of it, I have a lot of empathy for them because there is a reason why you are that way. Like you've been conditioned to be that way because when you're a pick me and you're like existing among other women, one of the many tools of misogyny is to convince women there can only ever be one. And then if you think about the

cool girl monologue from the movie Gone Girl, the woman she's describing, like there's a line in that monologue where she says like, the greatest fallacy is that this woman doesn't exist. The women that men tell every woman they should strive to be like she doesn't exist like she it's literally not real so they have us chasing ghosts like the word chasing mirages in the desert yeah and we're just going to die eventually out there alone so instead of turning away from women when men do that you turn towards them that's what i did like i leaned towards them i turned towards them i focus more on them because they're trying to convince you to tear everyone down and look how far ahead they get of us when they distract us like that so i was like we're turning on each

other, and that's what they want. They want us to turn on each other. Team, sync up. We got to all get on the same page. We're all on the same side. I have so many thoughts running through my brain right now. I'm like past relationships. I'm like, Mother! Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I appreciate it. You talk and I go, so many times I wanted to bow and snap and clap, and no, it's really cool. And congratulations on your book and everything that you have coming up. So tell everybody one more time where they can find you in your website for tickets. sure so you could go to drew dash off wallow.com for anything related to book tour whatever it may be and then on all socials you can find me at drew off wallo on literally everything and then i have two

podcasts the comment section on spotify or anywhere really and then two idiot girls as well i love it thank you so much thank you thank you for having me i'm katelym bristow i'll see you next tuesday I don't know. Thank you.