Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Grape Therapy: Bachelorette Recap (and Love is Love) with Kristian Haggerty

Episode Date: June 24, 2021

A fan favourite and the first openly gay woman in Bachelor franchise history, Kristian Haggerty joins Kaitlyn to share her side of her very public relationship, engagement and eventual breakup with Demi Burnett after Bachelor in Paradise. Kristian shares never before heard details of her coming out, personal struggles behind the scenes, how reality show editing can portray a completely different story and the importance of forgiveness. In support of all LGBTQ2+, Kaitlyn and Kristian discuss Pride Month and Kristian has very heartfelt words of encouragement to all those who are struggling with coming out. Plus they share some laughs (and tears) recapping this week's rather heavy episode of The Bachelorette. You can find Kristian on IG at @kristianhaggerty GOODY’S - To purchase, go to Amazon and use code 1VINE to receive $1 off a 4 count 6 pack! GEICO - Go to geico.com and in 15 minutes you could be saving 15% or more on car insurance. HYUNDAI - Learn more at hyundai.com. RITUAL VITAMINS - Ritual is offering listeners 10% off during your first 3 months. Visit ritual.com/VINE to start your ritual today. OXICLEAN - Go to oxiclean.com/tryme and order a free stain fighting sample. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Okay, let's talk about the original enemies to lovers story. Before all of our reality TV couples, before the rom-coms, we binge, there was Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy in pride and prejudice. And Audible has just dropped a brand new original that will have you completely hooked, I am. It's not just any audiobook. This is a full cast performance. So Marisa Abella, you might know her from industry, brings Elizabeth Bennett to life.

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So whether it's your first time experiencing Pride and Prejudice or you've read it a million times, you're going to fall absolutely in love all over again. So go listen to Pride and Prejudice now at audible.ca slash Jane Austen. Who's on with OTV? Podcast One presents Off the Vine, Grace Therapy. Caitlin Bristow is going to answer your questions. Drink to your confessions and hear what you have to say about anything Bachelor. Let's shake it up some more. Here's Caitlin. Welcome to Great Therapy. Your session is now starting.

Today I have a very loved past Bachelor in Paradise contestant here with me. She was someone completely outside of the Bachelor Nation and made an unexpected appearance. And she stayed in paradise after another contestant Demi came out as gay and revealed she fell in love with someone else before she came on the show. Now that someone was Christian, the first openly gay cast member in Bachelor history. and for that we love her even more, but there is more to that story because for the first time Christian shares that going on the show was actually how she came out to most of her friends and family unexpectedly when information was leaked before she even had a chance to talk with them.

Honestly, her story is just perfect for Pride Month as we celebrate, love in all forms, and I have so much fun catching up with this beautiful soul. Honestly, one of the kindest, most calm people I've ever met. I felt so friggin' then talking her. And at peace through our whole conversation. We talk about her life on the road, she's in a camper traveling, all of the states when COVID hit, what happened with her and Demi, her new relationship, and of course a quick recap of this week's rather real and heavy episode of The Bachelorette. And we might even get a bit emotional as we chat. All right, let's get into some real stuff.

Hi. Hi. How are you? I am well. How are you? I am also. Well, thank you. Where are you right now? I'm in Florida. I'm actually, we stopped traveling for a little bit. We kind of pulled a Dini babies where we're like traveling the United States and the campus. And so my mom actually had foot surgery. And it just worked out where, you know, the freedom of being on the road. We were able to come back and kind of take care of her for the last two weeks. So I'll be here for another two weeks, probably. Amazing. And then will you pick up where you left off? Like I need to hear more about this, this, this truth. that you're on. So you decided to rent, what, like a camper? Tell me everything. Okay. Okay. So

with the pandemic hitting and everything, I was in L.A. and my, my girlfriend right now, Taylor Blake, she moved to L.A. in January, but then the pandemic happened. And I was like, I'm not signing a new lease. Like, it's just so much money. It's so expensive. And like, everything shut down. I didn't have work and all these different things. So I was like, let's just, you know, take a long trip back to Florida to our families. And her family's from Florida as well. So we packed up my hatchback Mazza and drove. And we bought a tent at Walmart for like 40 bucks. And we tented, we were in a tent for six weeks across the United States. No way. Like in nature. Oh, yeah. We like fell in love. It was almost supposed to be two weeks and it ended up being six weeks. So we stopped in like Colorado.

And I have a bunch of friends in Colorado. So we were just loving that lifestyle. And I was like, you know, let's not sign something because we don't know where we want to be, where our careers are taking us, what's going to happen. And so made it back to Florida in August. And my mom actually sells RVs for a living. So it's been in my family for years. We did it as kids. And also, Dean and Kalin, I'm close with. And so that's inspiring. And I was like, this can work. I looked at my budget. I looked at, you know, without paying rent and having utilities and all this stuff. If we just, you know, front the cash and just have something paid off, well, what do you have? You just have traveling expenses. So it's like gas and wherever you land, really. So we actually

bought a camper. So we have a camper purchase. That's incredible. I feel like that would just kind of give a whole new perspective on life and even relationships and like how you live your life and what you need to be happy and you know what I mean like was what did you miss the most from like you know not living the travel life I think with having a partner that's very you have to have two people that want to do that lifestyle yes and so that was very helpful to have someone that was so on board and like let's just let the wind take us because this pandemic we it was an august of mid-pandemic and we're like what's what's what's the worst thing that could happen you know if we need to be back with our families we can and that's what's happening right now i'm back with my mom for you know her surgery

and it's just it's really helpful to have somebody that's supportive in that dream because we're in 16 i mean we're in like it's a bed and like a little walkway and we have three dogs so it's like wow you got to really really test your limits on on patients and all the things in a relationship and you come across as a very patient person though is a very patient person though is Is that, am I right on that? I guess I would hope I am patient, yeah. I mean, I think you'd have to be in the situation you're in. So whether you think you are or not you are, because I don't know if I could do that.

And I mean, I love nature. I actually love camping. I love road trips. I feel like I would love to do that and see different parts of the world. And, you know, but I don't know if I'd have the patience, especially with dogs and a partner and living in that. Like, that's got to be challenging at times. Oh, for sure. And I think it's really, if we can do this, you know what I mean? It's a good test of like before we sign a lease, before we buy or invest in property or a house. Like if I can, you know, if I can become better with this environment that's so optimistic and just like you don't know what's going to happen and having a partner that, you know, you can reflect on and you have a lot of time like in this lifestyle to like reflect on yourself.

and to, you know, have your partner there and to learn how you kind of jive with each other. Like what I need from you and what you need from me and how can I become a better partner? And like this, if we got, we're loving it. We're still not sick of each other. We're still not sick of like a 16 foot camper. So, I mean, that's a good sign. It's like the foundation is there. And now it's like we, if we can live in this little small quarters, we can live anywhere.

How long have you two been together? We were talking December 2019, and then we became official right around Valentine's Day. Amazing. Like you said, that's a good foundation to start on. And I always talk about foundations because I come from the Bachelor world, obviously. And that's a really hard foundation to start on. And you are not just dating each other, you know, the one person's dating a bunch of people. and you also have like the aspect of you're trying to make television as well

and I was going to ask you how hard that must have been for you because you weren't in the Bachelor franchise you didn't know what you were getting yourself into you didn't know when you're showing up on the beach in paradise like what that looked like to have to talk to producers and you did it with grace and you did it really well and and I just was I have so many questions about that just because for people who don't know maybe you could explain how that all happened. Oh, for sure. And I do want to say before I get into that, congratulations on your engagement and your love. Thank you. Because I actually follow your fiance's finance.

Like you saying, I saw Dini babies on it and I, of course, followed it after that. And I just think it's very intriguing. And he is a beautiful person. I'm just really happy for you guys. So thank you so much for saying that. And for being host, too, because I love Keisha and you guys are crushing it. And I meant to say all this in the beginning. Oh, you're so sweet. Aside from that. So, yes, I wasn't in the Bachelor franchise and going on the show, I thought I knew what

I was getting into. I was very naive, but also optimistic. I had my love blinders on. I was very infatuated with Demi. I would do anything for her, like go on a TV show. And like, because I never saw myself doing reality television. So then I moved to L.A. in January with my best friend who was on Colton season, Katie, Catherine Agro is what I call it Katie, but Catherine Agro. And so we moved to L.A. And we were still like figuring things out. And she had went on the show. And we weren't, I never had anyone like, I don't, I didn't know how The Bachelor World was. Like I didn't watch it. Wasn't like religious and watching it. You know, I've seen it a couple times, but never really followed anybody or anything about it. Right. And I was supportive. supportive of my friends started watching and then once she aired and everyone it was aired everyone was

coming into l.A. for different interviews and shows and stuff and they were friends with katie so they would come over to our house and like we lived in west hollywood at the time and they were just like hang out and i got to meet everyone and i became friends with a lot of these girls from the show and they're all really beautiful people um and demi was one of them and so a couple nights happened where we're just like all hanging out and like we went out and came back to our house and we're all just hanging out and then fast forward like Demi and I started talking like I found out she was gay and I was like what like I was so like happy and excited because we were jiving just as friends so well and I was like no way my heart would like beat so fast when she walked into a room like and I know she

I would assume she was feeling the same way because that's like how I felt we both were like moving so quickly right we fast forward and she became like more out to her producers so they were like asking about paradise and she was talking to me and she was very open and honest about you know wanting to go on paradise she wants to be a reality star she is a reality star that's her career and i was very supportive of that and i never you know held her back from wanting to go on paradise but i was like do what you want i'll support you and whatever you do i'm not sure how our relationship will look after it just depends you're going on a dating show, you know?

Right. And so then the producers and her came up with, I don't know who was involved in the conversations. I just got a call and said, will you meet with us? Let's, we want to talk about some opportunities maybe potentially. And I was like, sure. Matt with them, a couple of producers in Demi and they're like, would you be open, maybe potentially going on Bachelor in Paradise? And I was like, oh, I don't know. Like, I took me a while. Like I was back and forth for like a few weeks and I was like I don't know I just never saw myself doing reality television I'm more and I was working as a production assistant on music videos with Boyna Castle and different um commercials and I was moving up trying to become an assistant director and all these things and so I was like I don't know

if reality TV kind of fits like what I'm trying to do in entertainment and then um I was like but you know what if you really want me to go demi I want to be there for you I want to support you and I will go. And so that was all before filming started. She went on and then they're like, okay, pack your bags, you're coming June 8th or what I think it was June 7th or 8th. And then it all took off. But also what a unique opportunity to have a gay couple on The Bachelor because, you know, that's so important. And I know that the show, you know, we always talk about how that show can evolve and grow. And that's a way of doing it. I was really happy to see. a gay couple on Bachelor in Paradise.

I was like, yes, Bachelor, like, show those kinds of couples, show different biracial couples, show everything like that's, I loved to see that. So I thought that was probably another thing, like for you, obviously I'm not trying to speak for you, but that was probably something you thought of too, like how you could represent that and that's a beautiful thing. And the main two things that made me decide to finally go with the last minute was one I want I was like head over heels for Demi I was like yes I will go but second secondly on that I realized that you know I realized that this could be you know something that helps you know

thousands if not you know who knows how many people but even if it just helps one person feel more related to or accepted watching this show that's something I will be proud of no matter how our relationship ends up no matter what happens on the island at least and it's not even an island on the beach. Yeah. Whatever happens, at least we help someone feel a little bit less alone. And if I can do that, I'm happy with that. And so those were the final two things that I was like, what can it hurt?

And another piece of advice I got from a friend that had been on reality TV is, you know, editing is scary. You know, you don't know what's going to happen. I knew I was aware of that. I also was in production. So I understood how it all, well, I thought I understood to the extent. but bachelor's its own its own animal yeah and so but they can only if they do edit your words over a different video um which i know you know that happens sometimes where it'd be like just to make things more you know entertaining no matter if i speak you know blessing and good things

and positivity and be my most genuine self they can only cut that up so much so if i'm so worried about how they're going to edit me or like, you know, it could make or break your reputation going on such a big show. And I was aware of that. And I wanted to do, I wanted to do entertainment. So it was something that was very important to me for my reputation as well. And being a gay woman. So that's the advice I took. And I just tried my best to be me. Now back to Off the Vine Great Therapy. And did you feel like positive overall about the how they represented you or your relationship? Did you have an overall like positive experience?

I mean, we can talk about how after maybe not so much, but because you two ended up getting engaged, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. So that must have been somewhat positive for to be able, you know, to get towards that. Yeah. Yeah. I think, and a lot of people, I don't know if they know this, but you don't have your phone. you don't have connection to your circle of people in the outside world.

And so when you're there, it's very secluded. Yeah, yeah. You feel isolated. Yeah, you're isolated. And I'm so fortunate for the cast that was there when we were there. They were very supportive. And I felt right at home right away. And also being a part of production in my career at the time, it made me comfortable with the cameras.

I mean, I had never really been in front of the camera. Right. But being around that type of setting, I was like, this is nothing. They actually would find me behind the camera talking to, like, the cameraman and producers. And they would be like, Christian, why don't you get in? What do you think about that? And I was like, oh, I was like, I forgot. I got to be over there.

Yeah. But all in all, it was, it really was a positive experience. The hardest part was actually my relationship with Demi. Like, it wasn't hard making friends there because everyone was so supportive. We genuinely had a, if we, then. I was hoping that it was like, I was very optimistic and I was like, I'm going to get through this. I want to be with her. She's saying she wants to be with me. This is it. And it did lead to an engagement. And there were very high moments, but the high moments were very high. And almost to a point

of like unrealistic outside of the show. And so it's hard to explain like, yeah, after the show, things are, you know, can change. And I thought it was going to be one way and it just wasn't. So I think that's something I feel like a lot of people feel after the show is, you know, everyone's emotions are so heightened. You're going through these crazy experiences. You have all the time to just focus on each other, especially in Paradise, Bachelor or Bachelor, not so much, but Paradise, you have so much time to focus on each other and just be in that, you know, setting. So, I mean, I think so many people adored you both as a couple and wanted, they're rooting for you to, succeed and to, you know, stay together. So I don't know if you've ever been able to talk about

your side or what happened for you. Well, after the official breakup post and we had been on the rocks like a long time before that, it was a very rocky few months, really. We agreed to like not really speak about the breakup. And I wanted to protect, I mean, at all costs. I wanted to be the best I could be how I knew how to be for, be supportive for her, be protective of her, and be a good partner and a good fiance. And so I know my heart, I try my very best, but there comes a point when you, you lose yourself. And I wasn't taking care of myself. And I was almost had these crazy expectations for her to refill me but she was you know not able to and so i i stuck with that i didn't that agreement of not speaking about the breakup and we were highly suggested not to have our

comments on on the post which i was okay with having the comments on but that was another agreement we had and i said okay we can do that here's the breakup post i'll post it everything's okay i just wanted that chapter to close because i was so hurt and i just and not a lot of people don't understand like everyone's like oh you know you're you're you're engaged it's all good and all stuff but like the layers of being on reality TV and having a public relationship and also being thrusted into the light of like everyone knows who you are and in your business you get all these different kind of like mental things layers you have to go through like yeah I mean you know how it is and like getting random DMs people liking you not liking you saying things yeah like I wasn't used to

all of that and I think if I had a different not a different partner but someone that was more, you know, ready to be supportive, you know, a good balance. It would have been, you know, I was all for that. I was like, I'll support you. You support me. Let's like, let's kill it. Let's do it. Right. I love you. Like, let's be a boss couple. Like, this is going to be so fun. And so I've never really spoken about the breakup. And that's why I just like appreciate you so much. Thank you for like having me on. I, I wouldn't want to like talk to anybody else about this because I really, out of everyone that I've seen like you're just like a boss badass like bachelor nation like good example real genuine and so that's how I was like I want to be like and Kelly Flanningham was like

you have to you love her like she's great she's real you know and so I that's why I was like yeah I want to I want to do it with Gailen Bristow and so nice thank you it's true that that was the conversation that was had so and I spoke on like Sydney from Colton's season had a podcast for a brief moment and I had spoken a little bit about, you know, my story, but not to an extent I felt I wasn't even comfortable with like myself then, you know? Yeah. I was still wounded and I wasn't confident. I was not in the right mindset. I just had really bad mental health for the last two years and I'm, I'm just now getting to a point of like forgiveness and closure and confidence and really putting myself first so I could be a better person for that.

the people in my life, especially my partner. Absolutely. Yeah. It's so hard. I think we've all been in a relationship where we felt like we lost ourselves completely and just become like almost like a shell of ourselves and you have these expectations of your partner and when they're not met, you lose yourself even more because you're like, am I not worth it?

Or, you know, you have all these feelings questioning yourself and what you, and you're like, I did all of this for you. and like I would want the same in return and people just end up on different pages and when you throw reality TV in there it makes it a little more messy and people you know either like the attention or don't like the attention or they you know get overwhelmed by certain you know DMs and what people are saying or they thrive on it like two people can handle those that situation very differently yeah and it sounds to me like you just I mean that was just something you were like If we're going to do it, like, same page. Let's be on the same page. And you just were. You guys weren't on the same page. Yeah.

Yeah. It's really hard. It was hard because, like, everyone that's on Bachelor in Paradise, they know to an extent kind of how it all goes. Like, after the show, editing, airing, all these things. And so I didn't know, like, what it even meant, like, to have a blue check mark. And, like, to, like, I didn't understand, like, what it really meant. And because I just had my love blinders on, I was, like, hyper-focused on this relationship and just being committed and being with Demi.

And so coming off of the show, it was just super hard to, like, not have someone be excited for us or, like, watching the show together. Like, we watch a show once or twice together. Like, how come? Do you know why? Like, why didn't? I can't speak for her. But I think it was just a lot of anxiety, you know, because. because of what I think she likes to be alone to, like, watch just to prepare for, like, I don't know, external opinions.

And it was very heightened with her anxiety. It fell a lot onto the public of, like, what people think of her. And we all do that. But I think, honestly, I don't know. Like, I really don't know. I can't speak for her. And I don't want to. Right. Yeah, that's understandable. I like that you said, you know, I don't like this for you, but I do now because you've worked on yourself and you struggled and you're just getting like the confidence and closure. For anyone listening that maybe is going through that same thing or struggling even, you know, it's Pride Month and some people are maybe struggling and not coming out or being themselves. Whether, whether your advice is to like, you know, for a relationship or for how you went through a hard, time and you found yourself again and got the confidence. How did you do it? There was a lot of time involved, you know, really taking the time to self-reflect and look inside. And I also believe in God and I have a very faith-based meditation style to my life and all my relationships. So anyone listening, first of all, there was a lot of DMs I got from bachelor's. nation of people coming out to me in DMs, but not being able to come out in real life. And I want you to know, your time is always going to be the right time.

Don't feel pressured and don't think you're too late. You know, your time is always the right time to come out. And yeah, so I wanted to share that because I've gotten some of the names. And I've read it, I read so many, I've read every single DM I've ever gone ever since the show. And I've read every single email, every, but I can't get back to everyone. And so I just want everyone to know that I do read them. And also I got a lot of scrutiny of like, how can you believe, how can you be, you know, say you're a Christian or believe in God and be gay? And so that's a lot of controversy I have on my page or people being like, wow, you know, thank you so much for being true to your faith and your sexuality.

And I was like, well, I, Jesus was always there for me and I didn't make myself this way. Right. That's how I kind of view it. and i forget the question i do okay you are like me i'm whether it's my own podcast or i'm on another one i always go off and then i go wait what was the question even i do it all the time well i kind of made it confusing because i kind of asked you two questions in one so i love that answer that you gave me and i was going to ask because i do want i do want advice for people who struggle with you know colton said it when he came out of the struggle of your faith

and and feeling a way that you were told you shouldn't feel by, you know, the church or whatever. People you love the most sometimes even. Right. So how do you navigate that? A lot of people, I'm just, I'm sorry if anyone's gone through religious trauma. I'm going to first put that out there. But that's very real in the gay community. And a lot of people are like, I have to choose between my faith and what I was raised on,

all my parents and my, you know, my community has told us wrong. and like what I know it's wrong and that's why I haven't come out but I'm sick of this internal like shame and depression and guilt and darkness and like not allow and I've had the chills because I remember those feelings of like I can't be myself without turning my back on all of these people or them not loving me or God shunning me or like and so that's what we're raised to believe but and like I believe God is love and love is patient love is kind all of those things in First Corinthians. And I think that, and I'm really proud of Colin. You know, I don't agree with how he handled some things with Cassie. However, I am just fortunate. I'm really glad that someone

that is gay is accepting themselves finally and is free to express their sexuality. So I do support him in that. It's very hard when you have religious trauma to, you know, I had a great family that supported me. But I don't know if anyone knows this, but I actually, me going on the show was coming out to my family. So I wasn't really, yeah, Demi was the first out relationship I've ever had. So a lot of people, I think the show just kind of portrayed me as this confident out person. Yeah. But I was finally confident because I moved to Chicago by myself.

And I was like, I'm going to let all my friends know, like, in my comedy classes that I'm gay. And so, like, it was a small community, but I still was, like, learning to be out because there's layers to being out. There's being out to your family, being out to the people that you're trying. trust, these close friends, being out to, you know, you're just strangers or getting coffee or being like, you got a boyfriend? No, I'm actually gay. Like, the amount of times I've gotten not in my life. And so there's so many layers here. So when I went on the show, like, I, I had posted one, one picture. I was an ordained minister, which is so funny. Everyone was like, will you do my wedding? I just got ordained to, like, marry my two best guy friends. Like,

Joe and Ryan, I just married them in Palm Springs and I got ordained to do that. But I don't really think it's like seriously in the fact that that's a career or like a profession of mine. And so I wedded them or whatever you'd say. And when I did that, I made a post and I said, you know, it was very like hidden. It was like a big long post. I love you. I love your love, all these great things. And then I said, you know, we oftentimes in the gay community. And I just put we in there. Because I'm like, you know what, I'm so proud. I'm so. I'm so proud. of them and I look up to them for being so confident and out and married and all this stuff and I want that one day. So I'm going to just write it in my profile or like in the description. But my family doesn't have like they don't look into the detail. My dad doesn't even have Instagram. My grandparents don't know what that is like all these things. So and not everyone caught it. It was just kind of like hidden in there. And then that was in February. And then I started seeing Demi in March and then I went on the show in June. So what really stinks, too, or did, you know, I've learned to like kind of cope and like, you know, rehabilitate some relationships. But when we were still in Mexico and we were

engaged, nobody was supposed to know, right? And so once we were about to fly back to LA, the producers came in and said, hey, some information leaked. Like, it's out. And here's your phones. And I'm like, I had 400 text messages. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I had like, and I had like, the chills again. I'm like, it was just like, wait, I didn't even get a chance to include my people, my circle, the, you know, the ones that do know I'm out to appropriately like give my family, like me being gay. They knew I was going on a show, but they didn't know the extent of it. You know, I didn't really tell them anything. I just said, hey, I'm going to be gone for a little bit doing the show. And so that was a bummer because everyone was like, we're engaged. Like,

how did I not know? I've been here for you for 10 plus years. Like, you didn't even talk to, who is this girl? What's going on? Right. And so it kind of, I was outed as well. And I know Demi's spoken on that, but like the show was a really highlighted about her, which I was in support of. However, like, it took away from my coming out story too. And so that was kind of like hard to deal with. Well, that's a very real thing. And to people, I know a lot of times people see it as just TV or a show. right but you're not a character you're a real human being and that was a really important moment for you right and it got to someone else got to share your story before you did and that's that's that's that would have really hurt if that was me yeah thank you for saying that i i i think i would

have been more okay with it if if um the effort and the there was more of a balance in the relationship after the show if there was more support and and things like that but you you know, all of this, like, concluded, I am just so happy to find, and I want to say for everyone, too, like, if you're going through a hard time and you feel, you know, you were done wrong or, like, something went sour and you're blaming yourself and all these things, forgiveness is so important, not only to forgive others when they don't ask for it, but forgiving yourself as well. Like, give yourself a break because if you don't forgive, you're going to lead to resentment. You're going to lead to all these other things.

and also remember forgiveness isn't a one like i forgive you it's good no the trauma feeling everything forgiveness can take years yeah and and you might have to re-forgive the thousand times yeah and i just finally after two years almost two years i finally going to do a place where i'm like letting go i'm just like that's a part of my life and i can't remove it and not that i would want to but i don't know like i'm not regretting anything anymore like i'm not looking back and being like ashamed of myself or being because I was so naive or I didn't stick up for myself or all these like I'm ready to like I'm moved forward I'm good you know and yeah it will happen for everyone that's out there that is like going through something maybe similar or hopefully

this can help someone out there but you forgiveness is key you know yeah this is off the vine Grape Therapy There can be a lot of shame around, you know, when something goes wrong or if, you know, a relationship doesn't work, especially when the world can be watching it. Gosh. But even when there's not, there's still so much shame that people feel. And that's kind of, that is a process. It's not like you can just snap your fingers and shame's gone. It's a process and it's probably an everyday thing of forgiving yourself and other people.

I'm constantly working on that to a point where it could take up to a couple years to really be able to let it go. But it's it's going to take that time of forgiveness and forgiving yourself and telling yourself that and like even looking in the mirror and saying it to yourself. Yes, affirmations. Yes. Yes. Yes. And being aware of it. And not in a lot of relationships too.

It's like you can always take something from it to apply to your future. Like in any experience in life. You can like really dissect it and really see like, okay, this was to show me what I need and what I don't need out of relationship. What I do deserve what I don't deserve out of relationship. So when I was finally kind of opening up, it took a long time. I like to open up my heart to my girlfriend now, but she didn't give up. Like she was like, you're broken, you're in pieces, but I want to help you put them back

together by supporting you, not by controlling or trying to do it herself. She wanted to give me the freedom and the time and the space to do that a healthy atmosphere and environment to feel loved while I figured out how to deal with Instagram and like not being insecure or like, and I'm still insecure. I still overthink every post, you know, of course. And then, you know, and all the layers with that and like what are people going to think and does bachelation even like me? You know what I mean? Do people even care? You know, just like these negative thoughts. All the questions, yeah.

untrain your brain and live your life and let Instagram be a subcategory of that, not everything, you know, and I know a lot of people make a great career off of it. And I'm fortunate enough to have that as well to an extent. But I want it to be like I, this is my reality, real life, love, my relationships, my foundation. And then hopefully I can give that to Instagram, not Instagram controlling me by like the public, you know. Yeah. That's, I really love that you think that way. And because it can be stronger than you sometimes and it can take over. And especially when it's a mix of like your business or career and personal life and you can get super caught up in it. I know I've had to like reel it in a few times and say like, well, okay, that's a good way of looking at it.

Like you control your Instagram. That's a, you know, that's something that you can share in your life. But you can't let that control your moods. If it, if you're good enough, your value, you're worth all of those things, which I know. can do to so many people, especially such young kids right now. Like, it's putting so much self-worth on them, and it just kills me. And that's something that everyone, I think, needs to work on is not finding yourself worth through likes and comments and what other people who don't even know you think.

Right. You should absolutely care about what the people you love and care about think. But I love, what is your girlfriend's name? Taylor. Taylor. Yeah. I love that. She is that person for you because I think that.

that's exactly what you need. That's what you were lacking in your last relationship and that you probably wouldn't have appreciated that kind of love as much if you didn't, you know, have that last relationship where you're like, no, that's what I need. So I feel like I did the same kind of thing in my, this relationship, I'm like, all those things that I was insecure about in past relationships, all of the other relationships, he makes up for it. And I was like, wow, I would have never appreciated this kind of love before I knew what I needed.

have to go through that those crap times to realize what you need yeah and then it makes you once you do get that then it makes you appreciate an appreciation and so needed in relationships like just saying to your partner like I appreciate you like I appreciate that you just sympatheticious like really giving gratitude because then it also trains your brain to be like more grateful too like you know and that's so important yeah I totally agree with you I love that well I love you and I love Taylor and I'm so glad you found each other and it's just so I mean you probably went through such a hard time and for the for other people to be really watching that you probably helped so many people and I'm sure you know you did and I'm sure you know all the like pressure and things and

overwhelming times you felt those are valid too you know like you were allowed to feel all of that and now you're in a place where you can be like I'm freaking traveling. in the world with my loving supportive girlfriend and I'm with family and that's, I'm just so happy for you. I appreciate it, Caitlin. It really it means the world too, especially like

you're the freaking host, The Bachelor Nation and it's Pride Month and like the fact you even, you know, scheduled me in to come on and it's been like two years and whatever, I did a show but like I really, it means a way more than I can express because I've kind of, I know

it's a part of a show, but I don't always feel part of bachelor nation and so it means so much to like hear that from you especially you know so i appreciate that you are definitely part of bachelor nation and i know bachelor nation people love you like i remember being so happy at the love i was seen in support i was seen for you two individually and together but of course but individually i was really happy with i'm sure i didn't see all the negativity, but I saw so much support on the internet, which I was just like, I don't know, it just made me, it made me so happy to see because obviously deserving. So, and now, this is my other question. Are you able to watch these shows now, like Bachelor,

Bachelor, or Bachelor, or are you like, nah, maybe not? I don't know. It depends who's on it. No, I just say, no. It's true. I get it. Yeah. I, of course, We support Tasia, so anything she said, I've watched. Yeah. And I'm so close with a few of the girls from Colton's season because that was like kind of the era was a part of with friends. And anyone that was on Paradise, not anyone, but majority of them I'm friends with or like, you know, support them and whatever they do.

But do I watch the show? I was never like, let's watch Bachelor or Bachelor. Like I never really was that type because I don't think I felt like it wasn't. I'm gay. So it's like, am I going to watch a heterosexual? It's very entertaining, I must say. Right, but you can't relate. No, I'm like, you don't feel represented.

Yeah. No, yeah. So I never was like a dihurt bachelor person. But I mean, there's a lot of gay people out there that love the show. And it is very entertaining. But now that I know how it kind of works too, I'm kind of like, I know what's going on here. Like, I know what everyone that's watching doesn't need to know because they're just like crying or laughing or whatever.

But I do, I do watch it. I watched last night's episode. So yeah. And Katie seems freaking a doll, amazing of a human being. And I'm really, I didn't know much about her, but how she holds herself, how she treats others, how she treats herself. She is a boss as well. Like you and Tasia and Katie are like crushing it as humans.

Thank you. We had, we had so much fun. Thank you for saying that. It was just, it was so cool to be able to help her from, like, saying, we've been in your shoes. Like, not many people can be there for a person like that. So I think, I think it really helped her open up and be more vulnerable and accepting and own her own emotions and know, like, okay, this is what they went through it. And they felt these same emotions. So, like, that just, that must be what it is.

But, and I know, like, for certain people, and I want to say, like, trigger warning, because I saw a lot of people say they wish there was a trigger warning on last night's. episode when Katie talked about her experience and what she had gone through and talking about like consent and having sex because she is such a sex positive person. But you know how like you said, everyone thought you came in as this confident gay woman who is like, you know, we all thought that's that's, that's who she is. And you were like, no, I didn't even have the opportunity to, you know, say it for myself kind of thing. And I feel like it's always nice to hear people's real stories, whether it is a struggle, like you obviously would never want that for somebody, any struggles that they've gone through. But for them to open up and talk about it,

obviously helps so many other people. So, you know, Katie being sex positive, knowing that she wasn't always feeling that way, that something happened to her, that she didn't even want to have sex for years. And she has, you know, clearly worked on it and worked on herself. And for you to be sex positive after that, you would have to do some deep diving and therapy and self-work and self-love. So I think it's so important to see, one, that people aren't alone. And two, that you can get through it and that damage will always be done, but you can get through it. And if you speak it out loud, people will comfort you and relate to you and be there for you as long as you're able to be vulnerable. Right. And the courage she had to do that, not only like to that small group

in that moment and the cameramen and producers, but to the world, like, but when you speak things that have been eating you alive inside or holding you back or it's dark, you kind of give it less power over you. And that's what I've learned through the last two years of like therapy and everything. Like if I'm just internalizing, internalizing and not having, it's good to have support and she's going to get so much support. And if she, she definitely is because I'm so I support, you support her and i know bachelor nation i know they're saying well it should have been a trigger warning i don't know how how they've said it i don't know if they're like saying like hey you should have told me that was no these are real people again like people need to understand yeah it's

entertaining it's funny carl's drama like oh let's see the men fight yeah it's like but these are real humans and she did it i don't think there needed to be a trigger warning i think that's like it is what it is she's a human and she has the right to speak speak whatever she wants and the fact that she went through a dark not only a dark moment but then was manipulated into a relationship after that because her self-reflection was manipulated to be like I have to prove myself to him or like this is what it's supposed to kind of be and like I'm like Connor on this like I will cry because it's like it's so it's so courageous that she was able like my little self-reflections and stuff last two years but like for her to

become sex positive after years of not even like trusting sex or trusting men or trusting you know what I mean and for her to go on a show with like and be like open to 20 plus guys like wow like I don't know she has my full support and I don't think she needed a trigger one she can say whatever she wants and I'm really yeah and she and you know what it probably took a lot of self exploring and being comfortable in her own sexuality with herself I think that was a big part of who she is because she can trust herself and I think that all that work that she's done on herself has obviously led her to be able to open herself up to these relationships and I just adore her and I love that she shared it and I loved after that they said you know if you've

experienced this or anyone in your life has there's help and they gave a number and I thought that was a really nice moment for the show to do that it was a very like just overall really vulnerable emotional episode and then well not only the mic the Mike situate oh my gosh I know people are like oh I want it to be like entertaining and funny and stuff but again these are real people and Mike is

the I like cried during that with my mom. Oh I know. Not only because like my family's experience cancer and I have cancer survivors and my siblings are cancer survivors two of them and so for him to like lose somebody to it I know what that feels like and I know like

having friends that have passed and everything and for him to reopen his heart and like and be the father he needs to be for James as uh that's his name right James yes James yeah okay yeah yeah and I think that was beautiful how he took his time to really because I think Katie respected his time to wait when it was the perfect moment to share that he could have shared it way before but he it was his it's his life like that is and he really um you can tell how he prioritizes his family and his love as the foundation and what did he say the it's a blessing to fall in love twice the perspective I cried I just started bawling when I heard that the perspective

and like the oh my gosh it's beautiful and him saying to her you know like the way they both handled it together I was like oh my gosh this is pure magic because she let him speak and she just let him feel and get through it and she told him like she was just looking at him I'm like, I'm here. Yeah. And then for her to say, I would respect that, you know, relationship and that love you had for her. And I'd want you to have that space. And he's like, but I'd also have to like, you know, give you the confidence in our love.

And I was like, this is the most beautiful moment. And him saying that it was going to be unique. Like, you know, it doesn't need to be compared. It doesn't need to be, you know, it is what it is. And you can tell he still has that love. And that's okay. Right. her to accept that and understand that whatever they create is just the beginning.

Like he said, the engagement is just the beginning. And that is so true. So true. Oh, my gosh. It's beautiful. It was. And I feel like that's, that's the difference in, you know, he's 36 or 37. I think that's the difference in having these, like, what was the season that?

Tisha's she had, like, her men were just really available, emotionally available and mature. And, like, it was so nice to see because you still got the drama. You still got the entertainment. You still got the laughter. But then you had real people with real stories and real, like, vulnerability. Emotional intelligence. Yes. And I really felt that between her and Michael A.

And I was like, more of this, please. Because at the end of the day, what the world needs and is craving right now is to see love and happiness and vulnerability and connection over that. And I was just like, oh, I was just a mess last night watching that, that episode. I mean, of course, there's the Thomases who you just want to punch in the dick and be like, get out of here. I can't. Like, even though maybe Carl was right, like there is somebody here, okay, fine. But still, like, there's just so many red flags every time he talked. I was like, he just seemed.

I was like, why are you saying anything? Like, what are you saying? In the circle when he was talking, he was, it's like, yeah, for the platform and for, and yeah, and I'm like, are you, like, are you okay? Like, this, everyone just shared their deepest, like, hardest moments in their life. He was, like, he was like a clown from a Stephen King novel. Yeah. He was like scripted. Like, I'm at a casting call. Like, he reminds, like, that's what it seems like. I don't know. And it just showed like, do you have, did you hear anything? Did you have any emotional connection or sympathy? or empathy for any of these people, for me, I saw on his face, no. Like, he was just ready, he was just rehearsing in his head, like what he was trying to say all about him, what I look like, making sure, you know what I mean?

Yeah, and that just didn't seem genuine, so. He reminds me of someone from Andy's season, Josh Murray, who I've seen it, because I thought it in my head and I saw people tweeting about it. I was like, okay, it's not just me. I just feel like he doesn't have life experience. I don't feel like he has that. emotional intelligence that we were saying from, you know, the other guys that we've seen.

Like, Connor was able to really, like, show emotion. I wanted to hug him. I think so he was so empathetic. He could see her heart and he showed his heart. And the fact that it wasn't like some, you know, sad experience. It was like his own mistake. And the fact that he was willing to be honest and vulnerable and say, hey, I was not loyal. And this is what happened.

and I want you to know I'm not that same person. That is so emotionally intelligent, like growth. You know what I'm saying? Like the world needs more of that. Seriously. And you felt it. Like he wasn't just saying it to be like, I don't have grown. Like he felt it.

And you could just see all the emotion. Like he, that's someone where people are like, once a cheater, always a cheater. Not Connor B. No, not Connor B. Not Connor B. He learned from his mistake. That's not happening. And then he got the rose, which made me so happy.

but yeah I just really the whole episode I thought it was it was a great episode it was obviously not like the drama filled one but it was it was different and I really liked it and I felt like I came out of it being like wow I really have respect for a lot of these guys here my whole entire perspective shifted yes and I found myself rooting for so many more and I was there like I knew these guys but now hearing it you know I wasn't in that circle on the day I didn't hear these stories, and I heard some of the stories of Katie would come back and tell us something, but to watch it and see it, it just, I'm like rooting for all of them. And I just, guys showing their feelings, wow, are generating, making change here. You can have feelings, gentlemen, and you can share them. And then if you think about those people who are going to raise kids, that just gives me so much hope because I'm like, of course, there's the Instagram and all that bullshit. but like then there's the people who are really like you know understanding the importance of vulnerability and like how we're all talking about our feelings so much more and depression and mental health

has talked about and we're all like being open and there for each other and that's how we're going to raise our kids that makes me very hopeful oh i love that you are so right exactly you got to look at the silver linings i'm like because usually i'm like oh god my 13 year old girl on instagram oh dear god like i'm like i'm going to have everything blocked you're not don't even have a cell phone until you're 16. You're going to play in the woods. You're going to learn about world. Yes. Yeah, exactly. I can't let you go without you having a confession for me because I make all of my guests confess and it's usually my favorite part of the pod. So I was in college and I went to Seton University, a little small university. I was in the sorority

pie-pie and I wasn't really a sorority girl obviously like I was very tomboy and like played sports and stuff not that you can't do both but right you know for the stereotypical sorority wasn't like that and so I lived in the sorority house and I started taking on positions and I ended up becoming actually the president which I was like I don't know how that happened and I was a partier and my freshman year and all this stuff so I it was my sophomore year and in the beginning of like school the classes aren't that serious yet you know everyone's kind of just reuniting and partying and like that's how it was back then at least and yeah i lived in the trotel with my friend my best friend she's still my friend and um her name is kathleen and we're in the bedroom and our we had twin little beds like

on either side and she's just like loud and obnoxious but like in the best way you know like calling people out on there like just always saying something to somebody but everyone's laughing and no hard feelings you know yeah So I was standing there and I was like, we had partied all night and like we, you know, I don't do that anymore. But like partied all night and the only thing I had in my little fridge next to my bed was like Red Bulls. So I was like just like waking up kind of hung over but still kind of tipsy and I was like just chugging Red Bull to like start my day because that's super healthy. And I was like, great way to start your day. And I was in this gets like I'm so sorry.

I can't believe I'm telling you this. So I'm standing at the end of my bed. my little twin bed and I was like talking I was like folding clothes or something I don't know what I was doing I was at the end of the bed Kathleen was like turned away from me and I thought I just had to like like to a little like little fluffer just a little yeah yeah whatever little flat tire like it's just like yeah yeah a little flat tire like a little bike tire a little bit and it was not and it was like a whole night of drinking in my system and like two red bowls that I had chucked oh no So, and it's like 10 a.m. And it wasn't that. And she turns around like this and she's like, what was that? And I was like, and I literally, I stood at the end of the bed. I was like, and the bathroom was behind me.

I was like, I didn't say anything. I turned white. I started just backing up into the bathroom because I had shit my pants. And I literally go into the bathroom and all my clothes on, I get in the shower. Like I didn't even know what I don't know what's going on down there I was like I might be dying and so I turn on the shower and I'm just mortified and like and Kathleen's loud she runs out into the sorority chapter room and she's like Christian just shit her pants no everyone comes running through the bathroom they pull up in the curtain I'm in my like no and they're all dying laughing like what are you doing like what are you either like you're not like what do you do and I was like I don't know is going on. I'm, like, putting soap just on my clothes. Like, I just, like, did know what to do. And thank you, I'll never have, like, I've learned my lesson. Like, that was, like, so embarrassing. But also, I'm at a point where I'm like, I don't even care. Like, I think it's so funny.

That's so me. That's, I mean, that is the best because. I thought you said that's so me. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'll just shit my pants all the time. Are you okay? I just shit my pants all the time. No, I do it. I do it. I do it just. have a confession on my podcast. No, I'm just kidding. But that's so many people have, like, some of their confessions, they always, like, end it with like, you don't trust a to. You just never trust a tooth. You don't. You can't. So that was the lesson. I've had so many people

shit their pants on this podcast. Yes. My favorite. Oh, my gosh, I feel so related to. Oh, no, you will. That's, honestly, it's so funny because some people were like, I can't believe I'm telling you this and then all my off the vine listeners go and like support you and go i shit my pants too there's a whole a whole community for off the vine charters there really is i um i almost want to make t-shirts like there really is so you are very um you're not alone you're not alone in this battle and on the back don't trust apart yes i think i should do it i think are you drinking a capri son that is amazing you know i that's all i had i had two oh i have a gatorade too but i'm like not the mood for that and i saw this because my nephew was in my mom oh that's amazing

i've got one of these in so long i took too you're the coolest yeah i'm like mom you're so she's like those are dexter's and i was like not anymore oh my gosh that's amazing that looks delicious where can people find you so they can follow and and relate to your shitting your pant story. I have shared it on my Instagram before. Oh, it's amazing. Just Christian Haggard. My name's spelled weird.

It's spelled with a K. So Christian Haggerty is my handle. And that's pretty much where I post everything for now. And we'll see where the world takes us. I basically do all Instagram. That's like my main thing. I have the Twitter, but I don't really, I just lurk on it more so than write anything because it's a scary world.

You're telling me. You're brave. at Twitter. I'm like, I'm just going to walk. That could be a really dark place. Well, I'm actually, I can't wait to go follow you now because I'm like, I can't wait to see your adventures and just see what you're doing. And you're just such a lovely person and so easy to talk to. And is there anything else you wanted to say that I didn't get to? I think I'm good. I really just want to say thanks again. Like I know I said that before, but I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. And I've only heard good things about you. And it's such a pleasure to finally meet you face to

face will via Zoom. Via Zoom. Right back back. I really am, I'm proud of you and what you and Tisha are doing. And you have my full support. And you guys are really special people. And I'm glad that your nation is fortunate enough to have you guys bring some light. So good. You're an actual angel. Thank you for saying that. And all of those things just right back at you. And so wait, will you be traveling through Nashville? Actually, we stay a lot in Asheville, North Carolina, I know, which isn't, oh, it's the best. We want to, like, eventually buy property just as an investment, you know, because the market's crazy right now.

But just have, like, a home base. And I'm actually taking Carpentry school in July. So I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to post about it and share my journey, but it's going to be three weeks of it. And I'm going to learn how to build, like, tiny house, woodworking, like, all that kind of stuff. And my dream is to actually build my own tiny house and then maybe, like, Airbnb it out or, like, just have a little mountain somewhere. That's friggin awesome. That's my dream.

And I'm also want to, I want to work with, like, I don't know, I can't work on like, to get experience in any career. It's like, you know, I obviously like go out and do it. But building is like such a, I don't know, I can be like, hey, contractor, let me help you. It's like weird. So I'm going to act. And I also want to give back to the community at the same time. So I'm hoping I can reach out to Habitat for humanity and like get the experience of professional building houses for actual people in the community of Asheville.

So I'm hoping that works out. I've already reached out to them. But with COVID and everything, the volunteering is kind of narrow right now still. So hopefully it works out. That's awesome. You beautiful soul, you. Wow.

Okay. It was so great to talk to you and good luck with everything. I'll be following along. Are you in Nashville? Is that why you ask? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

We should link up. I would love that to slide into my DMs. Let's exchange digits and we'll make. it happen. Okay. Thanks so much. Okay. Well, I'll talk to you soon. Okay, sounds good. Bye. Hope you enjoyed that conversation. I'm Caitlin Bristow and your session is now ending. Thanks for listening to Off the Vine, Grape Therapy. Tune in to hear new mini-sodes every Thursday and check out new full-length episodes every Tuesday exclusively on podcast.com, the podcast one app and subscribe on Apple Podcasts.

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