Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Grape Therapy: Financial Anxiety, Money Management Tips, Asking For A Raise & More with CEO and Founder of Money News Network, Nicole Lapin

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

New York Times bestselling author, CEO and Founder of Money News Network, as well as the host of the chart-topping financial literacy podcast Money Rehab, Nicole Lapin, is here to boost our confidence and knowledge about finances. Whether you’re a "numbers girlie" or not, this episode is for you! It covers dealing with financial anxiety, money management tips, how to ask your employer for a raise, and why dismissing oneself as not a "numbers girlie" can be harmful. Nicole also shares her perspective on what a "dream job" is and reveals what she believes the secret to life is. Why aren't we taught these things in school? Who knows, but that's why we're grateful for podcasts. Thank you to our sponsors! Check out these deals for the Vinos: JUST THRIVE: Get 20% off a 90 day bottle of Just Thrive probiotic and Just Calm at justthrivehealth.com with promo code VINE.  FACTOR: Head to FactorMeals.com/vine50 and use code VINE50 to get 50% off. ANGIE LIST: Your home for everything home. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Conix Ontario at 1866-531-2600 to speak to a advisor free of charge but mGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with i gaming ontario i'm katelym bristow your session is now starting welcome to grape therapy i'm your host katelymbristow straight off the racetrack sorry, had to just get here on time, but I have on the podcast today. New York Times bestselling author, Nicole Lapin, she is CEO and founder of Money News Network and the host of a chart-topping financial literacy podcast called Money Rehab.

She's here to make us all feel a little more confident about our finances, talking about our finances, should we talk about them at the beginning of dating? She has a bunch of really great advice, easy for you to break down, and I really think you'll enjoy this one. Thank you for coming on the podcast and being here today. You are like, I wish you could be in my pocket at all time so I could just pop you out whenever I need you because I didn't get that gene. I don't have that brain. I am not a big numbers gal.

I just can't do it. I need help all the time. And I feel like so many people can benefit from your podcast and your knowledge. So right off the bat, I think a lot of people get nervous talking about money. And I don't know why, but it makes, I feel like it's an intimidating conversation, whether you feel like you have it or you don't. It's just, I always find it hard to navigate, which is obviously why you are here. So let's start off with the topic of financial anxiety. My favorite topic. It's a thing. It's a huge thing. Caitlin, so when you first started that little

spiel out, which I've heard many, many times, not to say that you're not special, but a lot of us feel the same way about financial anxiety and that we're not numbers, girls, or we're bad at math, or we don't have enough money, we don't have enough money to start, we're too old to start. These are all stories, constant stories that we tell ourselves to stand in the way of getting our financial lives together. And these are all stories. Like, it is so far from the truth. Like, I started as a poetry major.

Like, I am the least likely person to be talking about finances. Like, much less have my finances together, forget about teaching other people about it. So truly, like, if I could do it. anyone could do it. Okay. Now, is this because you found a way to easily break it down and help people understand? So through that, you got to like learn from somebody. Like, did you have a mentor? No. I just lied to get a job. Hey, my assistant lied to get a job. Maggie, calling her out right now. She's right here. She said, she told me she lived closer than she did because she wanted to commit to the bit and I believed her, but it's all worked out. Yeah, I loved it. And also, we were just

laughing about a guy who lied to us about valet. I just got a ticket in the mail, a parking ticket. And Maggie's like, hey, this is from when we went out for my birthday. And we were both like, that guy didn't even work for valet. He was like, oh, yeah, I'll park your car. Parked it. We gave, we Venmoed him instead of getting a ticket. And he got me a parking ticket. So you know what? I respect his hustle. What the hell? Yeah, there you go. He lied and he got the job done. He didn't steal my car. That's wild. Now, I, we're just. We're just, we're just. We're not here to like advocate serious lie just to be clear. But like girls got to eat, right? So I was 18. I needed a job. I wanted to be in broadcast journalism. I went to school for broadcast journalism.

Like after I was a poetry major and wanted to be a writer and sit under a tree and write all day long. Then I realized I needed to pay the bills and like make money. And so I thought that getting a job in broadcast news was going to do that, didn't realize that my first job was a $18,000 a year. And back in the day, I had to go to all these small markets to work my way up, like Lexington, Kentucky, and Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and all of that. So I wanted a job in Milwaukee at the CBS station, and I bothered the station chief in Chicago for a million years to try and get an interview. And I was like, here's how I can get to Milwaukee every day, kind of like your assistant. I was like, I know how to get to Milwaukee. He's like, you don't know

geography. I didn't. I grew up in California. I didn't own socks before I went to college. So that was a bad lie. And he said, so you don't get that job. And I was really bummed. And then he said, do you know anything about business news? And I grew up in an immigrant family, never talked about money. My boyfriend in high school said he wanted to be a hedge fund manager. I thought the dude wanted to be in gardening. Like when I tell you, I was the most clueless, Caitlin, anyone has ever been about money in the history of the world? Like, it would not be an overstatement. I then said to his question of, do I know about money news? Absolutely. I love money news all day, every day. And I knew nothing. Zero things. And I started on the floor of the

Chicago Merck, which I thought was a mall, by the way. It's the stock exchange in Chicago. And I realize then that money is a language just like anything else we just don't have a rosetta stone for the language and once we learn the language then it feels so obvious like how did we not know that before but it's just like if you went to japan and you didn't speak japanese you'd be really confused if you went to wall street and you don't speak the language of money you'd be really confused and money is the most taboo thing in society still forget about like sex politics bikini waxes like we'll talk about with our girlfriends before we talk about money. Like, we'll get into some serious personal stuff.

And as soon as money comes up, it's like crickets. And I'll say, like, girl, you just told me about your landing strip. And this is cricket. Like, what do you mean? You can't talk about your savings or what you're making. And you're absolutely right. Like, money is a mind. Whether you have it or you don't, it is going to cause anxiety.

So you might as well deal with it. I feel like we sometimes, like, feel shame around it if we don't have enough for as much as our friends have. And then there's the societal pressures and comparisons because of social media. Well, that person's on a trip and that person's living their dream job. So I must not be doing enough or making enough. And I feel like there's so many things in our world that contribute to financial anxiety. Totally. And financial trauma is real. Like we all have some sort of financial trauma, even if your family, like, sat around the table and read the Wall Street Journal to each other, like you learned about stocks and bonds. You still have societal trauma.

Maybe you're in your friend group. Everyone gone into a bunch of debt. Or maybe they hid purchases from their significant others. Or you saw your parents doing that or fighting about money or like spending frivolously or on the flip side, like not spending enough and, you know, being too like penny pinching about money. So every which way, like there's some sort of. financial trauma that has dictated how you live your life now or in the macro sense like if you grow up in the dot-com bubble or the housing crash like i saw my family's house get foreclosed on and so that impacts regardless of how much money i have how i look at home buying or not you know i had serious financial trauma with my family growing up and that has dictated how i approach

money and like the fears that i have and they're irrational fears just like like you said i'm not a number girl that is a that is just not based in fear shame guilt like all all the psychology you don't need to be a numbers girl like the stuff to get your financial life together a fifth grader can do honestly it's the humanity's part that is the most complicated i will say and then that's why like for example you are a resource for people to help others if they are if they're sitting there having shame around not being a numbers gal like There's ways to find tools, and are there any resources that you recommend for people who struggle? Because I bet everybody listening right now is going, no matter what situation they're in, I bet they're going, oh my gosh, I have that.

Oh, my gosh, that's me. So do you have resources for people that struggle? All of my books are 12-step plans because the first step to any recovery is admitting you have a problem. And honestly, the only problem we can't fix, especially money problem, is the one we don't admit we have. And so the first step to any recovery is like really saying what your problem is, letting that problem breathe and speak. Because often we suffer more in imagination than in reality and especially about money. Like we made up all these stories. The first time I filed my taxes, I thought I was going to jail.

Like I think a lot of us do, right? We go to this extreme, like this worst case scenario and or having a conversation with your significant other about money or getting your friend to pay you. back or like, what does that look like? And that causes a lot of anxiety. And so oftentimes it looks crazier and more wild in your imagination than that actually does to me. How would you have a conversation with a friend if you felt like they did owe you money and some people get so crippled by that conversation? How would you approach it? See, and these are the things. It's not the number stuff, the math. Like you don't need a graph and calculus. later for this stuff. I promise. You know, it's those conversations that are most anxiety provoking.

And it's one of the number one questions I get asked because there's an old adage. Like, if you lend your friend money, you decide what you want more, the friend or the money. And oftentimes, like, it ruins relationships. It ruins friendships. It ruins family relationships. Like, it causes all sorts of other stress upon, like, distress that's happened. And so, when you're approaching a friend to pay you back, I often say, like, you know, address it not in a business kind of capacity because you're not working with a bank. You're working with a good friend. But be really clear about like timelines and like methodology for how that person's going to pay you back. Or, you know, sometimes it's most aggravating when somebody borrowed

money from you. And then you see them on social media like going on all these trips and doing all these things and you're like, wait a minute, I just let you 100 bucks. What's up? Clearly, you have the money. And so bringing up something like that so it doesn't fester and metastasize and become worse than actually ruining a friendship. You can say like, hey, you know, it looks like you got on your feet. Again, that's so awesome. Like, you know, I'm trying to do this thing for my business or whatever you want to say. I'm trying to invest in myself. Like, I'd love that $100 back. You know, And if they say that it's still a really hard time, you know, talk about a payment plan potentially, not in like eight you are working with a bank type of way, but say, hey, you know, every couple

weeks, does this work to do like 25 bucks, you know, every two weeks? Like, I can send you a PayPal request. I can send you a Venmo request. Like, is that easiest? So you're bringing in some of this like framework to help with the anxiety, but you're not being like too clinical about it. I'll never forget when I lived with one of my girlfriends, she was one of the smartest people I'd ever met my life. And she taught me like a little bit about saving money because I didn't, I didn't grow up talking about money. Our family talked about anything and everything, but not really about money. And I didn't understand certain things. I didn't get approved for a credit card until I was like 33 years old because I just never cared about credit, didn't do anything about it. Like I didn't know any better. And, I can't even believe it looking back how much nobody taught me. It was just not talked about. And my girlfriend, I wanted to go on a trip with her. And I was like, well, I don't have the money.

She goes, well, I could lend you the money, but then you'd have to pay, you could pay me back, but like a certain interest rate, like a credit card. And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, it made no sense to me. But she set that boundary really clear to me that if she was going to lend me the money, here's how it was going to work for me to pay her back. And that was like, at the time, quite in a string. because I was like 19 years old and I was like, but I feel like as adults, we could have that

kind of conversation where you just set that like precedence at first. For sure. And by the way, that's really smart because there is a cost to capital, right? She could be instead of lending you that money, she could be putting that money to work. And one of the most beautiful forces out there is the force of compound interest, which we often see used against us in the financial system with credit card debt where it escalates and snowballs out of control. That same force can be used in your favor to grow your money in the stock market like over time the stock market has yielded 7% adjusted for inflation right so instead of giving you that money she could have put that money to work and maybe she charges you less in interest but like having capital having cash is

really valuable for the things that you can do with it and like how it can work for you and when I discovered that that's what got me hooked I was like damn I worked so hard from my money. Like, it's time it returned the favor. Yes, I'm just starting to learn. Yeah, I'm starting to learn about that. Well, I will say my ex was very much in finances and so smart and he helped me so much. Like, I still say to him, I'm like, God, out of all of our years in this relationship, like, I'm, you really help me with a business mindset and getting my money to start working for me and certain things that I would have never known. And then he's like, cool, you taught me about fart jokes so we're not really even but no i'm just kidding but but for people who are feeling and i think

i hear a lot of my friends talking about this and people even online for people feeling overworked and underpaid how do you suggest they approach their employer like do you give advice to people for standing up for themselves and asking for a raise or tips on how to do that for sure and i think the most intimidating part of that is like actually what to say so in my books i think it's my second book Boss Bitch, which talks about more like career negotiating for yourself. It just like lays out they will say this. You say that. And I do the same thing for negotiating. I think I talk about this in Rich Bitch and Miss Independent, you know, when you're negotiating for your utilities or your credit card, APR or anything like that. Like here are the things to say because I think we can all now

get down with the idea that you should have these hard conversations. And once you buy into that, you're like, damn, I don't know what to say after that. So when you're having a conversation, for a raise like there are different permutations right like when you first get a job and you bought an offer and you're trying to negotiate that and there's different kind of leverage that you have around that if you have been working for a certain amount of time and you want to raise like there's a different conversation there but you know we can we can take either if you want if you're just getting a job for the first time you have leverage because it's really expensive to hire I mean think about the process that you went through to hire an assistant right like once you

found your person, like that's valuable to you to put yourself in your employer's shoes, right? Like if you have to start from scratch, like it's going to cost you time. It's going to cost you money and all of that stuff. And so there usually is wiggle room when you're negotiating that, but also think of an overall compensation package. So not just base salary, but also perks. You know, so pay time off. If you then calculate like what your daily rate, would be if you have more paid time off that increases your worth because that will like increase your day rate because you're working less time or you know transportation or you know we're all working from home now but before those days like those types of perks working from home would

help for not paying for a babysitter or a dog walker or whatever having some equity options other things that for an employer like it's really important to put yourself in the other person's shoes for any of these hard conversations and so those types of things are tax rateoffs or expenses. And so there's not really huge skin off their back. And it could help you. So think of your overall compensation package and not just gain monetary perks that you're asking for. And then when you're at work and you already have a job, honestly, my best advice is like, be really honest with yourself. Like, would you give yourself a raise? Nobody deserves a raise. Nobody deserves anything. And as an employer myself, you're an employer too. Like, you're running a business. You're

not running a charity, right? So if your assistant or anyone who works for you came to you and said, like, I want to raise, like, why? Can you show me, like, how you've created more business for me? Like, if you're asking me for an expense account, right? I want to see as an employer, okay, like, did that coffee or did that lunch yield to some business or some closing of business? I will give you all the coffee and all the land. Like, I will give you the huge expense account, if you're showing me that that created some ROI for me, right? And so it's really keeping track. We keep track at work of a lot of different KPIs like key performance indicators for our job to hit like metrics and benchmarks and we create like presentations for ourselves. But we don't do

that for our own personal growth and development. Like you're creating a presentation maybe to present for the company. But when you're going in for this conversation and be like, here are the things that I've done, your boss has a boss, has a boss. Everybody's like looking out for themselves and needing to have their own back and getting their own raises. So they're not seeing like all the added value you've created. And that's why it's important to come up with that like in a package for yourself and you're presenting your case. Yeah, you need like a PowerPoint presentation onto why and how. And that's, I do think that's really important. And I say somebody sat me down and they're like, I want to raise. I feel like I'd go, okay. Like how do I get the back?

bone to say, well, what do you do for me? Like, I feel like I, again, that's something I feel like I would be nervous to have that conversation. And I think that that might just stem around the fact that I've never talked about money until recently. And maybe it's just uncomfortable for me. So basically, I would just take your advice from earlier with the resources and read your books to get through that. We can also do role playing. I think it's really fun to practice. Like, whether it's with a friend, whether it's in a mirror, whether with your dog, you know, starting those conversations because they're so scary in our minds. Like, they're not as bad in reality as they are in imagination.

There's two school of thought when it comes to negotiating. One is to throw out a big number or one not because you're potentially negotiating against yourself. So if somebody wants to offer you, like, I don't know, for easy math, like $100,000. And you're like, well, I want $110,000, right? You don't know if they actually. could have gone up to $150,000 unless you let them throw out that first number. You don't know like what the range is, right? And that's why I also think it's really important to talk to your friend

group about this stuff. It's like pricing your house without knowing the comp of the area. You're shooting in the dark. Like you're not getting the information. And that's why I think it's, you know, so taboo. But if you want to have a hard conversation of any kind, you have to go first, I often say. And so, you know, on my show in books, I talk about my salaries all day long. Like, in my books, Caitlin, I literally talked about how much I made for that book. Really? I didn't ask.

But I was like, if I'm telling other young women to talk about their finances and talk about money, they're probably reading them and be like, woman, well, what did you make for this book? Because I wouldn't be wondering that too. Yeah, that's true. And so somebody has to go first. Circling back, I was thinking about this when. You know, you said you went from poetry to finance and now, I don't know if you would say you have your dream job, but so many of us love the idea of working our dream job and how to get there.

But for some, like, you know, that might mean starting from scratch and some people are so intimidated to start your own business because they either think the grass is always greener and it's going to be so easy or they think I don't have the ability to do this. I don't know where to start. I don't know how to start. I have a family. How am I supposed to have time? How does one overcome that fear of failure and try and chase something that is their dream job?

So I grew up in a really broken home needed to start working early on. You know, my father died of a drug overdose when I was 11. Like my mother pieced out. I, you know, never had backup plan. And so failure wasn't an option for me. And when I said yes to that job as a finance reporter, it was, you know, because I needed a job. but I hated, like, finance stuff. I thought, you know, men on Wall Street and there were all men, you know, I have wild

stories of being, like, Wolf of Wall Street style on the floor of the exchange with all these guys. Like, the women's bathroom was like a closet. You know how normally the women's bathroom is really big compared to those dudes? There was no women there. And so, you know, I said yes because I needed that job. And I thought that this was like a bunch of greed. and that I wasn't doing anything important with my life, all of this stuff.

And my dream job, like, at that point was to be a poet or to be a writer. And, like, I just didn't have the luxury to do that. And so I often argue with these entrepreneurial experts who go and say, like, go do what you love. Like, if not now, when, yolo, FOMO, whatever, yo. I didn't have that luxury. Like, that's really cool. And if you have a trust fund or, like, if your parents are great and, like, give you money, that is amazing.

Like, I'm not mad at you. Like, I'm a little jealous, but, like, I'm not mad. I just didn't have that option. And so I found my dream job, but it ended up being the exact same job. So instead of hating on those opportunities that I had, because they were the opportunities. Like, I couldn't start from scratch. I had to use, like, the resources and the platform that I had at the time. And I looked at, like, what that was and what was important to my employees.

at the time and what was important to me. And I found the shaded part of that Ben diagram. And I found like making a difference, writing. That was all really important to me. I wanted to be like Christian Amampur at CNN and go report on the, you know, war and be at the white house. And like, I was like, I want to make a difference. I'm just here talking about the Dow and like what numbers are doing. And this is so stupid. And I hate my life. And like, I'm doing nothing. And this is the worst job I could possibly think of. But then I realized like, no, you know what? What I'm doing is reporting the first draft of economic history. The economy like drives all of these sectors. Like the economy, if you want to get to the heart of any story

follow the money trail, whether it's personal or like in the news or anything. It's truly money motivated a lot of things, whether in the history books or in our own lives. And so when I started viewing it that way, I was like, you know what? I became a writer. So I was an anchor on CNN and CNBC and Bloomberg talking to a lot of old rich white dudes about money and like how to get richer. And I was just like, I felt so empty inside. And to other people that might have looked like a dream job. And to me, it was like a nightmare of a job. Until I had the very same job and I just changed my viewpoint on it. I just changed my perspective on it. So oftentimes I say like, I became a writer, just not the kind I expected. And so writing finance books were not the books that I wanted

to write. But I also like, there's no shame in feeding your family. There's no shame in paying your bills and that's really important and we talked a lot about self-care and like I love a deep tissue massage just as much as the next year old but I also think that self-care and taking care of your bills and going to the doctor and like not fun sexy things but like things that take care of you in other ways are self-care and I do think that like you can find passions in other areas like the only thing that you can only get at work is money unless you're doing some weird stuff which is like not I'm not going to talk about but like you have to optimize for money at work if you you can also always find passions in other areas too and so when people say like I'm not

passionate about what I do you know being passionate about this might be a hot take but like you don't always have to be passionate about what you do but you do have to support yourself and you do have to be able to take care of yourself and I I continue to do what I do because I found that there was such a void especially talking to women about money and women were ending up in abusive relationships they couldn't get out of because they were too scared of having their own money and figuring this out and they thought that they weren't a numbers person or that they were too old to get started and that's just that's just not true and money like it's not money it's whatever you want assign to that but having the ability to leave any situation job relationship like that is what

is important to optimize for that is my dream above anything else it's cool too to think like switching your perspective in what you do like a simple thought of i did want to be a writer well i can still do that and you know you're doing it in a much different way now but finding those little things that you actually still do love and i think that's a lot of people think if they're going to chase their dream job it has to be worth leaving the other job for or you know i better make all this money, but I feel like people, well, people don't either don't know what they're getting themselves into or they think they don't have the time, but it doesn't have to be this big crazy thing. It can be something that you are passionate about, like you said. But I want to know

what people should know about owning their own business before diving into it. That I definitely dive into in Vosbitch. And what was interesting to me is that when I was first thinking about what that looked like. I came to it only from an entrepreneurial standpoint, especially for women, we jumped through a lot of different stages in our lives. Like, I don't think of a career as a ladder. I think of it more as like a rope swing or rock climbing. Like, I worked for a bigger company. I went off to work for myself. Like, I could be the CEO of my family. I could then go work for another company. And all these different permutations in between, you can become an entrepreneur, which is like an entrepreneur within a bigger company. When I worked at CNN, I started a

series and like that was entrepreneurial. I did that like on my own. Even though I was at a bigger company, I was like logging into my own little WordPress and doing my own thing. And so, you know, you can have different definitions of being an entrepreneur. But when when I first burn my corporate bra, like I would have told that girl to make sure she had like enough savings in the bank to really like I know it's not the thing you want to think about like you want to think about the hopes and the dreams and the plots and the ideas and those are important to you but like having your own back to making sure that if this fails like it's not a hobby it's a jobby at the end of the day like if you can't make money doing it it's something you do for funcies

and that's okay not everything you have to make money from like when people say I want to start a cupcake shop. I'm amazing at making cupcakes. Like, I make cupcakes for all my friends. They're, you know, it's worth having a business. Maybe or maybe it's just like worth making cupcakes for people because once it becomes a business, then you have to source flour. You have to do accounting. You have to do janitorial stuff. Like, it then doesn't become as fun. So like, it's reconciling the passion that you have for different things and the work component of it. And not necessarily completing the two. what do you think are some common misconceptions about being an entrepreneur a lot so much yeah i think that

that it's it's really about following your passion like leading with passion there's running a business right now for myself like i have a whole network of financial shows now and and i have a bunch of folks that report to me and i'll have some that say like i just want to do what i love every single day and that is a huge beautiful luxury i don't do what i love every single day even though i own my own business and i run it you know i think there's this idea that just because you created what that destiny is that like every day is rainbows and butterflies it's for sure not like you know when when I'll say back to them, be like, you think that this like ad read for whatever is like my passion, you think like I wake up at the morning and be like, you know what I want to do is like

talk to you about like this insurance ad. No, but I have to keep the lights on. I have to pay the bills. That's, I literally thought I could just like, like, start a wine brand and be like, well, I was on a TV show and I have this amount of followers on Instagram. So I can't I? And then I realize how much work and now I've I've fallen in love with learning about business but it's crazy how much how much more work it is than I ever thought I am quite passionate about wine but that's not it's not like my job is sitting there and just sipping delicious wine when I feel like it you know but but it is interesting just how much you learn about how hard it is and I'll never forget I think I've said this on a podcast before but just this one meme I saw where someone was like

yeah I didn't want to work nine to five anymore I wanted to work for myself so now I work 24-7 and it's like it is so much work you know it's true and it's the numbers part like I think the misconception especially for women is that like they have this creative idea whether it's wine or clothes or or something and then they'll find like a finance person to deal with it or they'll find like somebody to answer those questions and you can in a lot of cases but also like you need to know that stuff like almost if you put a flashlight in your eye like Like, you know, where were you, Caitlin, the night of, you know, March 7, 1984, like, you know, what is your EBIT? What is your profit margin?

What if your cost or goods? Like, these are things that, like, nobody is going to care at the end of the day about your money and your business as much as you, period, at the end. It doesn't matter if you pay them. Like, this is, you know, the same when it comes to agents or managers or business managers or financial advisors or accountants or anybody who you think, like, I'm going to outsource that to somebody else. You can, but that doesn't excuse you from not also understanding it if you had to. It happens also in marriages. Most women don't want to get their financial lives together proactively.

It's reactively when their husband dies or they get divorced because they have to. And so just because somebody else in your family life deals with the bills and that's fine, by the way, like divide and conquer is so cool. Whatever works for you, like I don't have. to wake up in your life if that works for you, but it doesn't excuse not knowing where stuff is. So like if God forbid something happens to that other person, like you should be able to pick up that role. Like if they get sick or anything. And so it goes the same for business partners or managers or other people in your financial life. I feel like, I mean, we all know it that the financial

problems are always what happens when, you know, with divorce or the number one cause. I don't even know if it's number one or two or three, but it's probably up in number one. But do you think it's because people aren't having the right conversations about it before or during or all the above pre-nups? Are those? Can we talk about those? Why do people find so much shame around pre-ups? Well, I think for women in particular, it's because there's this idea that I hate so much. It's like he's, and again, I'm talking like heteronormative here, like whatever your situation is, I'm just doing that because it's easier for this conversation. But if this idea is like, he's making me sign a pre-up, well, no, like, first of all, people are marrying later in life.

You have your own assets. Like, my pre-up is ready to go. Like, I am protecting myself. Let's switch this conversation. Like, let's reframe it. Somebody isn't making you do anything. Like, that, you are protecting yourself. What about, like, you initiate a pre-up conversation?

like this is not a fear-based thing like oh my god what is he going to give me like well what are you going to give him and also how are you going to protect yourself against his debt or like are you going to let the state decide like maybe it's not a romantic beautiful conversation but you don't get car insurance or home insurance thinking like you're going to crash and die or like your house is going to burn down but you get the insurance anyway and so these i think are important conversations that like deserve reframing these are conversations. like that feels scary about money, but really are about like hopes, dreams, plans and protecting yourself. Financial infidelity is one of the biggest causes of divorce or fights. And that just means

like any other kind of infidelity. It's hiding or cheating or like keeping something from a significant other. And so when it comes to preempts, I'm a big fan. I think that for women, we should just take this conversation back and own it. I like that. I actually really like that. let's talk managing your money what are your top five tips for managing your money so budgeting i would say if you're going to just be starting out i like to break down a spending plan into the three e's so essentials endgame and extras where 70% of your overall spending plan goes to the food the housing the transportation all that stuff 15% to the end game and then 15% to the extras so like whatever does it for you the latte the manipetti don't cut that stuff out one of the big

issues with starting to get on track is thinking that you need to cut everything out cold turkey. It's just like a regular diet. If you go on a, that's why I use spending plan in the same way as you would use eating plan instead of like a crash diet because it allows you a Hershey's kiss so you don't end up notching on a big old hunk of chocolate cake in the middle of the night because you're so hungry and so deprived. So if you allow yourself a spending plan, you're allowing yourself for a latte so you don't end up, you know, mid-year binging on a Gucci purse because you didn't have any fun. Like, you need to account for fun. You need to put that in your spending plan. I agree. I love that. I feel like I do that. Like, I just bought a new

house. So I'm like, no more Starbucks for you. Like, I like start to like want to cut myself off from things that I enjoy and like, do because I'm like, you just spent so much money on this house. Like, you better not spend. But I'm like, that's so silly because I'm such a believer in just like alignment. Like, I feel like I'm supposed to be in this house. I feel like. I feel like I'm supposed to be in this house. I feel energy of this house. I feel like those are obviously lies I'm telling myself like I can't do this because I did this. But I even find I catch myself doing that where truly if you're doing things that you love that make you happy, then like you said, you're not waking up in the middle of night and doing something that you would regret anyways because you're depriving

yourself of other things. Like I think we forget how small joys make big differences in our life. For sure. You know, in relationships, it's the little things that matter. Like I think The secret to life, I had a Russian literature class in college that said the secret of life, I'll just tell everybody, like, spoiler alert was like the little, it's the little things that matter the most. It's not these big things. Like, I'll be happy when I get this or this house or this, whatever. It's a small everyday joys and moments. When it comes to finances, it's the big stuff that matters.

Like, cutting out a latte has never created a millionaire. Right. cutting out little small indulgences has never gotten you faster to your financial life, like clipping coupons or digging in the couch for coins or something like that. It's instead focusing on what your credit score is so that you're not spending as much for debt, whether it's on a mortgage or on your credit card. So credit scores work like a seesaw. The higher your credit score, the lower your interest rate is.

And so if you do credit hygiene, you improve your credit score, that's like a big financial thing to focus on instead of trying to nickel and dime yourself, then you're paying potentially thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars or more, less in interest over your life. And so that's something to focus most of your attention on so that you can buy all the lattes, buy the Starbucks if you want. See, I get so scared of, I get overwhelmed, I guess, by things that I don't know enough about. And I think a lot of people get intimidated by credit scores or how to even check it. I didn't even know how to check my credit score. until about four years ago.

Like, again, like, I feel like you, you break things down for people to really understand it. And even for people who get overwhelmed by credit score, like, what should their steps look like to not feel so intimidated by it? Annualcreditreport.com is a good place to get started. You can get your free credit reports if you're not signed up for another system. And the biggest component of your credit score is like payment history. So making sure that your bills are paying on time. I know that sounds patronizing.

I'm certainly not trying to be. but you know even if you move and like you haven't transferred stuff over stuff gets lost in the shuffle it could be totally innocent but that actually has the biggest bearing on your overall credit score because basically what your credit score does is tells lenders so that could be the credit card company the bank giving you a mortgage or a car note or whatever business loan how responsible you are so if you're showing them that you're like not paying stuff on time for whatever reason, then that's like lowering your credit score. So just make sure everything's, you know, on auto pay stuff doesn't get lost. And then having a low utilization rate,

which is just a fancy word for saying like if you have $10,000 of a credit limit on your credit card, spending like $3,000, no more than that. Just because you have it doesn't mean you should be maxing it out. So this is an advanced tip. If you can get a credit limit increase and you can use it responsibly, it's better to take those increases because your utilization rate, you can use more of that, a little bit more, not the full amount, but it shows that you're responsible by not maxing it out of the full that you have access to. And then I think a lot of people get, again, another thing that people get overwhelmed with is budgeting. Is there something like that, like a how to budget for dumdums? Like, without, that's me being insecure. Like budgeting, how do you

start if you want to create one like that i know i'm so sorry she's she's really smart and great that goes back to you know the three e's that i broke that down to if you are beyond just starting out i would also pay attention and i also use alliteration because you know i wanted to be a poet so like some of the things that i wanted i include into finance where you know nobody said they belong but they make me happy. So I love alliteration. So the three E's become the three F's, family finance and fun. And really breaking down what your goals are.

I like to do it in 135, 7, 10 year increments. So you can reverse engineer. Goals have price tags. Like a dream without a plan is just a wish. And wishes are amazing, but they don't pay the bills. And so figuring out like what you're going to do with that money is really, really important. Understanding what your why is because I'll be, you know, at events or whatever. And somebody will say,

like cool cool i i know my goal it's to have a million dollars like okay like what do you want to do with that million dollars i don't know maybe you need more than a million dollars maybe you need less than a million dollars first figure out the life you want and then reverse engineer to figure out how to get the money to live that life but i think a lot of anxiety comes from not not knowing answers to those questions and those questions and those answers can change as your life changes and stuff happens and it will but knowing your destination is really important It's like, you know, jumping in an Uber and being like, hey, Caitlin, like, we're going to a party in L.A. And you're like, cool.

Like, where's the party? What am I wearing? Is there food? Like, you have questions about this party. Just like I would. We don't jump in an Uber and be like, hey, party in L.A. We need the destination. We need the address.

We need to know exactly where we're going. And so I think the same thing applies to finances. And that's the source of a lot of stress and anxiety is because we don't actually answer to questions for ourselves. I used to have so much anxiety when people be like, what do you want to do in five years or 10 years? I'll be like, oh, I just, well, I thought, no, because I never answered the question. Another thing I feel like people get stressed out about is always taxes, and people love getting a tax return, but explain to me why you shouldn't want a tax return. It's your money coming back to you. People are like, party time. Like, I just got a tax refund, so I'm going to go,

like, buy something really nice for me. Spoiler alert, that's just your money coming back to you. You, like, lent the government money at, your friend that you lived with would have charged more money than the government, like, gave you back, right? Like, the government is giving you your money back and not giving you interest on it. And so you're not appropriately doing your deductions or whatever you're filing so that you're holding back and withholding the right amount of money or not because you're getting a refund, like, that is not something to celebrate. That's basically your money coming back to you. Dang, I wish I would have known. Like, how did my, my parents are smart people? They were like, yeah, you go get those hair extensions, girl, when I got my tax return

back once. Like, I feel like it helped me actually get to wear being so, like, naive and blind to debt and like money and taxes and everything like when it came to, like, I would just be like, I don't know how I'm going to pay my rent next month, but I'll figure it out. Like, I feel like that mentality I had let me just think outside the boss. and go wherever I want and not think about consequences where now I'm like how did I get here like realistically I'm not quite sure but I do feel like it was because I was so like aloof to all of it and I'm grateful for it but now I'm like I love learning now I love learning because I want to set

myself up for success for you know if I have a family if I get married and I feel like even thinking about a new relationship for me I'm like how soon do you have the conversation about money these days because I'm 38 I want to talk about like what what are your political views religions like money what are you in debt how much money we talk in what are your goals like I feel like I'm in a position in my life that I feel I feel confident to ask those questions but for people listening what would you say how open should you be right away in relationships with money well I don't think that this is an inquisition you know or an interrogation on the first state you're asking the credit score, although there was a viral thing where a woman posted her credit score

on hinge or something like that. And it was really high. And I've long advocated for putting credit scores on day maps. Because like there are such arbitrary filters. Is it more important if he's 5-8 or 5-9 or if he has like a boatload of debt or if he's irresponsible with money? And there was a lot of correlations between credit score and infidelity driving records and other things because because it just shows, like, general irresponsibility. And so I'm not saying, like, ask on a first date, but, like, maybe I'll know. But don't listen to that. I actually like that.

It changes as your relationship progresses, right? So, like, as you're moving in together, that's a different conversation. And you can get little cues as you're dating to see how responsible that person is. And I don't like to view these financial talks in this lens of, like, it's so scary. and like we need to sit down and like spread out our 401k statements and all those stuff it's not about that it's it's really like the life you want to making sure that it's compatible you don't need to want the same things they just need to work together yeah and so when you're moving in with somebody like whose name is the bill's going to be under if they're under that other person's name

and they're being paid you're not getting credit history for yourself which is often where a lot women get screwed or if they're in your name and they're not getting paid then you're getting screwed in a different way and then when you get married right it's the pre-up discussion it's who's paying for all the wedding stuff that's a whole other podcast and when you have kids do you have a will do you have an advanced directive like there it becomes a more advanced discussion that you're having and when you have kids I think you know your parents and I'm sure those hair extensions were awesome and they did the best they could and you're going to you know you're going to you know you have more information now so when you have kids like it's going to be and it is on parents to

talk to their kids. We're not learning this stuff in school. We're learning a bunch of BS like how to dissect a frog in the Pythagorean theorem and I don't even know what. It is so dumb. I do not understand why our school systems are not teaching us more about credit, about debt, about like the way the world actually works. It does not make any sense to me. It makes zero sense to me. That's why I continue to do what I started the money school because I was so tired of hearing, you know, myself saying like, why is this not happening? And like, I want to go lobby for this. But it's true. Like, I spent a lot of money on my brain. I went to college. Like, I learned macro economic theories and stuff that's not relevant. I didn't learn how to write a business plan or do my taxes or do a budget,

which would have been way more valuable. You know, and so we have to do, I think, a combination of tough love for ourselves. Like, for forgiveness for what our former selves didn't know because she didn't have the information and that's okay but like moving forward it's not okay you now have access to the information so like buying her extensions with the tax refund like is not okay moving forward right it's like you know better yeah no i'm i can't even i like i should write a book i should write a book about my the my 20s it's it's actually comical and hilarious speaking of comical and hilarious i always get guests to confess something to me on my podcast and I hear you have a good one. Oh my gosh. I have so many good ones. Tell me everything.

I just like live in my financial confessionals. I love financial professionals because like I've done all the mistakes. And so I get it. Like I got myself in all the debt. I said some wild stuff around business terms. Most recently though, I was on Good Morning America and I like started on TV when I was really young. I was probably on air more than I was off air in my life. And I went on for like a regular segment talking about the debt ceiling and really like really complicated stuff and breaking this down and all of it. And then they were like, well, thanks for, thanks for coming by. And I was like, you too. I did that the other day at the airport. I did that same thing. Right. I have a good flight. I was like, you too. And I was like, I've flown so many times. And I've never said that.

I've like made sure I didn't say that back. And I just did. Oh, that's amazing. Totally. like happy birthday or like good luck on the thing got the procedure that you're doing i don't know you too to the nurse i mean it's a little worse when you're on good morning america in front of the country that's amazing i hate it i hate those little dumb like like embarrassed like or when somebody waved you and like you wave and they were waving to the person behind you like those embarrassing things god i i love it and i hate it at the same time oh i can't i was at I, like, I'm, my armpits are sweating, thinking about it right now. So, seriously.

That's incredible. I used to, by the way, wear, like, maxy pads under my aunt Taylor suits back in the day. Because, like, we didn't have cute suits when, you know, like, we were getting our first jobs and whatnot. But, yeah, I had so much. I was so nervous that I would put, like, maxi pads under there. Oh, you'd put them under here. Yeah. You're like, yeah, yeah.

that's how maxi pads work. No, no. I thought you're telling me you were putting it down there for the sweat, like your badge sweat. And I was like, that's kind of smart. I was like, that's genius. Yeah, wherever you want to put it up. But I looked like I had it, like I was like a truck driver with these pinstate. Because this stuff makes me nervous. Oh, I know, I know. What was I just doing, like two days ago? Something happened to me. Damn it. No, I wish I could remember because it was probably it would have been a good confession. I did something where I, like, said something embarrassing and I started sweating. No, I won't be able to think of it. I'll think of it for my next podcast, but it's so hard to embarrass myself every week, twice a week on this podcast, but somehow I

managed to do it quite often? Yeah, a producer was like, do you have an embarrassing story? I'm like, from like the last hour or the day, or like, what are we talking about? Because it's just never a day. What were you on Good Morning America for? For these financial reports that I do, like a break down like the financial stories and advice and stuff like that and it was like I've done it so many times but yeah it's it's like you're on autopilot at the airport like telling the TSA person to have a nice flight like we're just not thinking it's fine well I also think it's funny to think of like like we think it's embarrassing to hide our underwear the gynecologist when they're like I've seen it all why are you hiding your underwear like I feel like TSA is kind of the same way they're

like, yeah, we hear at least 100 times a day. So we all need to just not have any shame in our game. I'm sure if somebody has talked about this, but like also, why do we shape, like, why do we shave? Oh, I shave every time for, for the gynecologist. Yeah, every time. It's so, I make sure I get the butthole and everything. I get right on there.

Every time, because, you know, they're like, scoot up. And I'm like, well, now you're going to see my be hole. So I get, yeah, well, now I just laser. But anyways, I'm glad you share that with me. So people can watch you, like you do a segment all the time on Good Morning America? I do, yeah, or you can listen to Money Rehab every single day. Girl, can you imagine doing this show every day? Yeah.

So all the money stuff that's happening, breaking it down. And then I also have a show twice a week called Help Wanted. That's Career Advice with the editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur Magazine in addition to money right now. Holy crap, you really are a boss-ass bitch. That is incredible. I was watching Good Morning America this morning. My gosh, you're just doing it all. That's so cool every day. So if people want to learn more. Financial tips, advice, breaking down like all stuff in the news, helping you decode all this crazy

jargon. Because I think that's what keeps us out of the conversation is the darken. It doesn't need to be that way. And this is why I rewrote financial dictionaries with the back of all my books. Maybe this is why I am still, I'm 39 and have never been married. And so maybe that's because I was rewriting financial dictionaries on my weekends. I don't know. Yeah, good for you. You know what you're doing. Gosh, relationships are over hyped. Just kidding. I really want one. But I can't wait. You have so many books. Where can people find your books as well? Wherever books are sold. Oh, that's awesome. Wow. Good for you. That's really cool. I'm truly going to listen to your podcast because I need to sound, nope, I need to be more confident.

But also sound more confident too. I really do love like talking to a Wall Street douchebag and just like putting him in his place. Oh my gosh. I'm obsessed. That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time and coming on the pod today. I really appreciate you. And you're badass. Just trying to keep up with you, sister. I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now ending. And if I'm being honest, I wouldn't mind a rating and review. Grab a coffee and discover Vegas-level excitement with BetMGM Casino, now introducing our hottest exclusive, Friends, the One with Multi-Drop. Your favorite classic television show is being reimagined into your favorite casino game

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