Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Grape Therapy: Nikki Glaser Joins Our Naked Cry Circle

Episode Date: May 19, 2022

TW: Eating Disorders, Mental Health, Pregnancy The hilarious and talented Nikki Glaser joins Kaitlyn for a true grape therapy session in today’s episode, as they open up and get honest about their struggles with mental health, setting boundaries, and coping with depression. Nikki is formally invited to join Kaitlyn’s naked cry circle as the two discuss the importance of feeling your emotions and letting them pass through you, especially during certain parts of our cycle. Nikki, who we now think of as an honorary Kardashian as her new show took over their slot on E!, reveals why reality shows are like zoos, why her ex finally decided to be on TV, and why canoes are the perfect place for a heart-to-heart with your dad. Nikki and Kaitlyn also come up with a brilliant idea for your next wall calendar, divulge why KB canceled their last recording (no secrets here), and uncover the importance of handjobs. This is a deep therapy session you won’t want to miss. For more Nikki, catch her new show Welcome Home Nikki Glaser? on E! FUZZY - Fuzzy is offering my listeners a FREE 7-Day Trial membership. Go to YourFuzzy.com/vine today to sign up. HELIX - Helix is offering up to $200 off all mattress orders & two free pillows for my listeners at HelixSleep.com/vine . LIVING PROOF - Go to LivingProof.com/vine and use code VINE to get 10% off your first purchase. PROGRESSIVE - Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 27 million drivers who trust Progressive. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Podcast One presents Off the Vine, Great Therapy. Caitlin Bristow's going to answer your questions, drink to your confessions, and hear what you have to say about anything Bachelor. Let's shake it up some more. Here's Caitlin. Welcome to Grape Therapy. I'm your host. Caitlin Bristow, your session is now starting. Hi. Hi.

How are you? I'm good. How are you? Oh, my God. I'm like mind-blown right now. My girlfriend just sent a picture of like, remember Sophia, Grace and Rosie that went on? Oh, yeah. The Ellen show like, Sophia Grace and Rosie.

I always resonated with the little blonde girl who got upstaged. I was always like, that was me as a little. a child just being like, God, I want to be talented, but I'm not. No offense to her. I hope she's doing great. No, look at them. I'm, this is what's blown my mind. No. Yeah. I mean, I know people age, but that's upsetting. How old are they? I don't know. I just, like, this is how I still think of them, of course. Yes, they're so, just little, I know, why do people, they used to be little puppies and now they're just, yeah, they're adults now. You know when like kittens are, really cute when they're babies but then they're cats and you're like oh i know and that's why i always

i used to have a joke about people being like i want a baby i can't we're having a baby and i go you know it's just going to be a dude named doug someday right like i think girls wouldn't be as baby crazy if they were like i'm having a man yeah because that's most most of its life is going to be a man but everyone wants babies but you got to think about it's the opposite jason doesn't want he's like yeah i'll be so much better with them once they're like functioning adults and I'm like, no, I don't want, I just want a baby. Oh, see, I'm, I'm with Jason here. I feel that way about my niece and nephew.

I'm like, I cannot wait till they get to the age where they can, like, critically think and, you know, talk some shit. You know, I'm going to really come in clutch then as like an aunt. Right now, it's like playing Barbies and trains and stuff. I just, I don't have that creative brain for that kind of stuff. I almost feel like I'm in an improv class that I didn't, that I feel like I shouldn't sign up for. Yes.

I always have like I feel like I'd be I'm just like not great with kids But I feel like Of your own you like you'll figure it out Yeah that's true You will figure it out Do you want kids one day? Isn't that a funny question

Like that we get asked All our lives And then for some reason Overnight it becomes a fraught question Like I feel like I still answer that question Like I'm 22 like I don't know I'm waiting and out And people are like

Well your body's gonna know soon it's not going to be up to you bitch and I'm like oh god I forgot like it's so funny that overnight I became and I don't even know the the answer is I don't know and that's not like the greatest I should probably know but I'm 30 I'm about to be 38 in less than a month and so it's like um this is the age I should have an opinion either way but I really presentful that men like my best friend Andrew who you've been on his podcast yeah I love Andrew I do my podcast with him every day. He's dating, you know, a woman in our mid-20s and his attitude about kids is like, we'll see. And I'm like, man, that would be nice to have to be able to, as someone approaching 40,

to go, we'll see. And of course, adoption allows me that being able to kick it down the road a little bit. But, yeah, I just, I'm kind of resentful that it's like, oh, God, I have to start thinking about freezing my angs. I mean, I'm thinking about burning mine just so I have to, don't have a choice. you're like yeah mine thought out actually they got burnt so yeah not happy that's that's me but yeah so i have my eggs frozen oh you do when did you do it when did you do it when i was 32 oh which i mean i'm happy i did it but still that's not a guarantee and i'm also turning 37 next month and i'm still like like in my brain do i want kids yeah but every time somebody asked me that i'm like realistically when is this going to happen because even if i'm 50 i'm like still got my eggs

and like so I don't know either every time like I dream of being a mom but realistically if my brain goes yeah I wanted but I don't know like I have eggs frozen so there's that well you do have you do have that insurance that gives you a little bit more time to play with if you want your own I feel like the the egg freeze was it a heart process because I'm thinking about it but I'm like oh I don't want to I don't want my hormones to get all crazy I don't want to gain a bunch of weight erratically I don't want to you know is it is it taxing I mean yes But looking back on it, I'm like so glad I did it. Like, did, where my hormones were out of control.

Like, I was such a depressed bitch. Same. My hormones are always crazy. What is going on? It's like, I, oh, it's so funny that you don't remember that that's what's going on every month when it comes up. How do I not figure this out yet? Every single time, I'm like, why do, why am I wanting to drown my dogs in the bathtub?

Like, I'm not going to do it, but like, you're having these crazy. Like, I get dark thoughts, dark, insane thoughts. that make me question my sanity and make me embarrassed about the things that I say because I'm trying to communicate my sadness to my friends who are like, oh, I get depressed too and I'm like, no, this is actually what I want to happen.

Like I say things that are so disturbing to communicate how sad I am and to kind of be funny about it because it's so dark that it's scary. And I'm always like, what's going on with me? I didn't feel this way a couple days ago. And then boom, I start bleeding. And I'm like, can you not see this coming?

Like, I wish I could see it coming. I joke about this all the time to myself. I'm like, Caitlin, you're 36 years old. This is clockwork. It happens every month. You know exactly. Like, and you'll be feeling that way. Or I'm even at the point now where I'll look at my app and I'll be like, oh, yep, it is.

And then Jason will know because I have my app sent him emails about what to expect. And still, I will be in like these intrusive thoughts and like crying. And I'll be like, well, surely it's not my hormones. This is actually how I'm feeling. Yes. think that's part of it. I think that's part of depression is that it saps your brain in a way that part of your brain that knows that this is just a symptom of what's going on physically or hormonally for you. It tricks that part of your brain to going, no, no, no, it's not. This is

real. And that's the scary thing about depression is that when I get really depressed, let's say, if it's not even hormonal, it's just like, situation, circumstantial, whatever, I will start thinking, I don't want to get help because people who get help are just living. a lie, and I know the truth, life isn't worth living. Life sucks. It's all meaningless. And I almost don't convince myself that I'm right and I don't want to be better because being better is being in a bubble and being stupid. It's being ignorant. Yeah. And I don't want to be blissful if it means being stupid. Yeah. Wait, why do I relate to that so hard? I genuinely like deep down know what's going on and I can look at an app and see like this is what happens every month for the last how many

years but I'm like but I but it doesn't matter because I know I'm right like so even if I'm feeling all this darkness and sadness like that's how I'm feeling right now and this and my feelings are valid and I like validate myself and I will make huge mistakes or I will be like I'll question everything in my life or I'll push things away and then like three days later I'm like jk L. L oh I mean I was I'm so glad you said that too because I was saying things a couple days ago to my friends complaining about my life and that were so dark and weird and upsetting and I look back I'm so it's I feel now the shame that men must feel when they punch a wall like I've seen the way or like women too violent anger that comes out and you go I don't know what just took over

I do that with words and with thoughts that are so disturbing that they make me feel extreme guilt about it but i do think that that's how depression wins like it's trying to kill you because it's trying to it so it finds a way to take over the part of your brain that's would maybe make it go away and it and it disables that part of your brain that goes no this is just a symptom this is just when i have suicidal thoughts pop into my head i try to look at them as sniffles like i'm oh i'm getting a cold like the first side of a cold those little so i can treat depression or body image

stuff that comes up oh i'm feeling fat like okay that it means i'm depressed there's a depression coming on like i'm getting sick yeah mentally and and not and i think so much of mental illness is about like you are choosing it because it's all in your head and it's your thoughts so you think you're choosing it but i've recently started describing like my bouts with anorexia bulimia i just say i caught anorexia i caught bulimia because yeah if you catch something like cancer if you get cancer barring you know smokers get blamed like you did it to your that's you know you don't get sympathy sometimes for that but you know for some reason when you're anorexic or bleemic it seems like well you're doing that like just eat a sandwich or like

just stop and no one has the same sympathy that they would have for someone who caught an illness that they didn't choose but i didn't choose to be anorexic i didn't choose to like hate my body and like no one wants that and it just or to be depressed people just go just smile make your bed walk outside it's like it's of course it's easy you're you to someone who doesn't have it. It drives me nuts when people say, like, you choose happiness. It's like a choice every day. I'm like, no, it's not.

If it was a choice that I was choosing every day, of course I would wake up and choose to be happy. You can't just make a choice when you suffer from a mental illness or depression or anything that we're talking about. And you're right. It's like, I like the sniffles. I like thinking about it like that because you can, your brain can grasp the concept that it could pass.

What do you do when you have the, when you have the, when, when you are in, like, the worst of it, do you have any, like, strategies to get out of it? Do you, what, what is your behavior like? I mean, you've given us glimpses of that, which I've been so grateful for because I think people can just lump so much perfection onto you, including me, and I know you. Right.

It's just easy to go, like, but she looks like this and she dances like that. And she has this career and she has this boyfriend, like, that you just go, what is she upset about? Like, what does it look like for you when you get to press? like what are the thoughts what does how does it show up for you i allow myself to be that way so i don't like say like oh come on katelyn you've got to get up out of bed and take a walk it's gonna make you feel better or get to the gym because you know once you go you'll feel better i'm like no lay in bed cry be a piece of shit like it's so much stronger than me that i feel so stupid after

but it just shows up to in in my life like i cannot stop crying I cannot hold my emotions or my words from like coming out of my mouth. It just happens. And then I go, oh, shit, here it goes. And I can't stop it. And then I'll cry about it. And then I'll just let myself cry about it. And then I'll go, okay, this is depression.

These are my hormones. And I'll just like sulk in it instead of trying to do something about it to fix it. I'll just allow myself to sulk in it. And then it passes. And it's- You allow it. You don't fight it. You allow it to pass through you like a phantom, like a ghost.

or something like a yeah like a virus like just waiting it out that's interesting for me whenever i hear because i have a lot of girlfriends that also struggle in the same way and they cry too i never i never cry when i'm depressed and i'm really envious of that kind of release it is it is right and and when i'm able to cry in my life it feels so good but there's something going on with me that that i feel self-indolid it feels masturbatory i think as a kid it if I cried about stuff, it would be like, no, you're not crying about, don't do that. It was, I think I used to use it as manipulation. So now I feel like when I do it alone, I'm like, am I trying to manipulate myself?

Like, it just feels ridiculous. But I really want to, I always ask people like, how do you cry? Like, I know this sounds insane. But like, what, what makes you cry? Do you think about something? Do you, are you thinking about like, my life sucks? Like, what's the, or is it just? It's genuinely not.

even a thought it's like you don't like foreplay it out like oh let me just like try to get get it tease it out it just comes it could be like a very small disagreement between jason and i and where it's like nothing to be upset about but i'll like try and spiral it into something in my brain and then i'll just start crying and then i won't be able to stop or like when i i remember such a funny image but i remember being in the dressing room after a show for the dancing with the stars tour and all the girls were just butt-ass naked like putting on self-tanner and like getting ready for bed to go back on the tour bus and I was like trying to fight crying and I really didn't know why and someone said to me like are you okay and I just like burst out crying and I put my face in a towel and I just sobbed and then we all stood there in a naked train hugging each other and I was just sobbing and then I went to go into the shower and I was like I'll just cry and the shower like I'll get through this whatever and I just sat in a dirty disgusting venue shower and just like hysterically bald and then after I was like I feel so good like oh my god it's it's a

crazy switch turn of events where I am like so low and then if I cry as hard as I did that day I actually feel so much better do you feel and this is just me as someone who doesn't I I have cried before a lot. But like, afterwards, do you feel stupid that you just cried that much and was like having this kind of tantrum? Is it like almost like the way men feel after they masturbate of like, oh, I didn't do that. Shut the left. Stop, clean it up. Do you feel shameful afterwards or is it just like, okay, good. I only feel shameful when I say stupid, mean shit or like say something I regret, but I don't feel shame around crying because I feel like the people that I really like have in my circle. I feel like they do it too, or we talk about it. So when I do it, I don't feel so much

shame around it. I want to get in a cry circle. It's the, you are so welcome to get in the cry circle. I want to get you into full-blown tears. I want you crying in a dirty venue shower after a show. There's so many dirty venue showers I'm passing up as just perfect places to let it out and just let my feelings go down that drain. Okay, we're going to pause for a second. I love my doggies, my boys, love them so much. I'll admit that being a pet, parent is a huge responsibility. Some would even say that you're a mother to the baby for babies. Since our pets can't talk, which is very, very unfortunate, we do our best to understand what's going on, but knowing something's up with them or their health and not understanding

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please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531, 2,600, to speak to an advisor free of charge. But MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Now back to Off the Vine, Grape Therapy. What you said about when you're trying to hold it in and someone goes, hey, are you okay? That little gentleness can kind of coax it out of me when someone like, sometimes I can't hug people or if I talk about the thing that's upsetting

me that will make, but any kind of empathy really draws it out of me. And I think maybe that's why I don't get a lot of tears out because I don't either have empathy for myself or I don't allow others to have empathy or surround myself with people that can't really practice empathy because they weren't raised with it, not their fault. I wonder why though. Do you have people in your life like that would just like touch you on the shoulder and be like, are you okay? And you could have that cry with them? I do. But they're my friends that are either long distance. And I think I was raised with a family and by no fault of their own. I mean, families that have alcoholism in them peppered throughout are very bad at empathy. And I think I was raised by, I mean,

if you watch my Rihanna show, my parents are amazing. But my parents were not good at if they didn't understand why I was crying about something, then there was, then I shouldn't be crying. That my feelings were invalidated because they were trying to help up being. like what are you crying about that is ridiculous what you're sad about this guy dying you didn't know him i feel i feel like i'm wrong when i cry because i'm either i'm doing it to get attention or i why am i crying about the celebrity i didn't know who died i'm not even a fan of his but i think it's tragic that he died of a drug overdose at a young age and it's like making me cry oh am i one of these people that's trying to like make his death about me on instagram and like you know i have

those kinds of thoughts where I go, what is my intention here? It just somehow I doubt my own intention. I know, I know. Like, feelings can just be feelings. They don't have to be like justified or validated or right or wrong. Like they can just be a feeling that passes or that you sit in. Like, I feel like people always want to make it more complicated than it is. Yes.

You can't help your feelings. I didn't learn that until I was 30 in therapy. And my therapist just goes, I'm just going to stop you for a second. Do you know that you don't choose your feelings and that you can't control them and that they just come, there's, you don't bring them up, you don't create them, and you don't know when they're going to come up or leave. And you don't get to, you don't get to choose what you feel about. Right. And I, I had no idea. I was always told that like, this is ridiculous. Nikki, stop it. That is,

you're crying because you can't go to that swim party. Like, we're going, you're not doing that. You didn't even mention wanting to go to this. And now it's a big deal. Like, everything crying to get out parking or you know like speeding tickets like yeah there are ways that i've used crying to manipulate men i will say into giving me what i want i don't do that anymore because i dated enough people that just go no this doesn't this doesn't work on me even when it's real you have you have a bad like image around like you have made up a story about what crying means to yourself to myself but when i see other people do it i do not think they're faking it or you know sometimes i'm well yeah i can tell when someone's faking it yeah yeah of course you know you know you know

most reality shows I am not like just you know ready to call them fake I really err on the side of like these people aren't that good of actors like that's what I always say about reality shows I'm like you guys think this is fake this person would be winning an academy award if she could actually act that well and have tears streaming down her face I and people ask me if my show is fake and I'm like you know reality shows are like zoos if you think a zoo is fake then yeah okay then it's like that the habitat, the situation, the, you know, the conversations that people tell you to have might, you know, the structure is fake, but what happens within that is absolutely real. And, you know, yeah, would I go canoeing with my dad to have a conversation that we could have

in the living room while we're on our phone swiping? No. But on a reality show, you can't be on your phone. You can't watch TV. You can't listen to music. There's a lot of things you do in your life that are copyrighted that you don't realize until you have cameras running around you. Did you have a conversation with your dad in a canoe?

Yes, we talked about, like, this reality show actually, it's so eye-roly to say, but it's like, it really made my, like, connections with my family and with the guy I'm dating, like, so much stronger because it forces you to have interesting conversations that, by the way, I've been dying to have, but I never had an excuse. And for some reason, entertaining people gives me an excuse to do things that I was, I'm always scared to do. or, you know, I always want, I feel too self-indulgent to cry, to ask someone that I need, you know, I need more from you or to like get into an argument. I always feel like, I don't know, I guess it stems from the same thing we're talking about of like my feelings aren't valid. So therefore, if I'm allowed to say my feeling and it's not just about Nikki needs or feelings hurt, it's about we need to make a show.

Then it gives me an excuse to have that feeling. That's actually a really good point. I mean, I think about, obviously I have been on reality TV. where I'm like, it, I saw it as like an opera, more of an opportunity to validate my feelings. Like, if I cried, it was like, but I'm on The Bachelorette. Like, of course I'm going to cry. And like, let's talk about our feelings and about a boy. And like, if you don't cry, you're not making good TV.

So let it gives you that permission, not that you're doing it to, like, I cry more on camera than I would ever in my life. And it's not fake tears. It just gives me, it gives me the permission to do it. It's like, I compared to, I like getting. like tied up during sex and stuff like that because I am lazy in bed I don't like to work a lot and being tied up gives me an excuse for why I'm not doing anything to him I'm like I can't he won't let me out so that's why I like it I want an excuse to be lazy and you and get all the

stuff done to you yes exactly so I think that's what the reality show to me was is I pitched it initially as I need to like start dating people and find a love interest and dating is very awkward for me and I'm not good at it and it's too intimate and I you know would have loved to have been a bachelor at some point because it would have forced me to do the thing I'm deeply uncomfortable with and it would have given me the permission because I'm making a show I have to do it they're making me it's true that's such a good point it's the thought of making good TV is important to of course you right now that's literally your career and you're job and your life it's important to make good TV and to be able to make good TV you have to be

open with feelings and putting yourself in that's my job I'm to do that and if I fail to do that then I'm failing someone so it's me crying about something me going on a date and having a fight with my boy things bringing up a conflict with someone that I'm dating that usually I wouldn't because I'm like he might break up with me if I do this yeah this is forced if I don't do it then this is boring TV and so maybe he'll break up with me but at least I'll get a good scene out of it, even though that's really what I want to talk about anyway. And it's almost like couples therapy

for especially the relationship I was in because that person can't, you can't be your ugliest self when you are being accountable with cameras there and or with a therapist there that's going to say, hey, the way you're talking to her right now, not good. Hey, the way you're not listening to him right now, not good.

Like, that's why couple's therapy is so great and I felt that way, even though it was very hard to have my relationship that, you know, the guy I'm dating on my show, he's an ex-boyfriend who we have a lot of, you know, almost, like, I would say trauma from our history of nine years of dating. And for that to, and he's a private person, always behind the scenes, never wanted to be on camera. So is he involved in the show like he's on camera and you guys work out some stuff of your relationship on camera?

It was wild, Caitlin, because I pitched this show when I was not dating him. He is someone I dated. I met him in New York nine years ago. we were working on a show together he's a producer i fell in love with them i finally like you know i crushed so hard finally got him to like pay attention to me we started dating we dated we created a tv show together on common central that got canceled we kind of got canceled because that was our baby and it was just ended and we were like okay we're gonna end and then off and on we've dated or we've just slept together casually over the years hooked up and i always fall in love with him again

because i end up sleeping with them and getting like this bond and he's like no i thought we agreed we're just doing this casual friend thing and so eventually I got to the place where I go I can't do this anymore and you know it's just it's messing me up to have sex with you so let's just be friends and nothing and he was in L.A. I was in New York. Years went by we would barely even see each other talk to each other and then we both ended up in St. Louis when the world shut down and we're both from there originally. We didn't meet there. We met in New York and we both ended up living with our parents for 10 months and we started hanging out as friends still like we're we're both too depressed and like our lives are just so weird now because of this thing that let's

just keep each other company even though I was so horny for him and trying to seduce him and he was like no let's just I don't want to mess this up like I need you as a friend right now and then eventually we got to a place where I was like you know what like we're both like out of this depression like let's start hooking up but like let's not sleep together because I don't want to catch feelings but we can seriously be casual because actually I realize now like I don't want a relationship with you because you can't give me what I need, which is not to say that you're a bad guy, but like I had a romance, you know, about over a year ago that made me realize like what I want in a relationship.

And that didn't work out, but I go, okay, now I'm more clearheaded. So I can go back to my ex and not expect a relationship out of this, but I will not sleep with him so that I don't get connected. And did that work? Yes. So what happened, though? The way that women connect to men when they get their penises in their vaginas, like when we, we bond with them in a way that, like, kind of makes us dignitized, as some people say, where we start liking this guy more than we would had that not happened. And we don't really trace it to that, but that's what happens. And you get addicted to them in a weird way. You have withdrawal symptoms if they don't call. Like you get crazy over this guy. You didn't even like. That's why he had sex with them. You were like, oh, it's safe. I won't fall for this guy. And by not sleeping with him, which was only to protect me. I didn't realize another benefit of it would be that he is like, wait, why, why not wait, so we can hook up, why aren't we having sex? That's what we do. Like, we always do that. And I said, I'm saving that hole for my husband. I don't know. I panicked. I said, I'm saving that hole for my husband. And he goes, what? I mean, we are disrobing to have to hook up for the first time in three years of not like doing anything. And he goes, what do you mean? I go, I don't even know if I want to get married, but I just know that I can't let someone in there ever.

again with their penis unless i know that they love me as much as i love them i can't do it because i just will i'll just fall for you and i'll get crazy and it will ruin us and it's just protecting me it's it's not because you're not worthy self-aware thing on the planet like that you could ever say i and i was just protecting myself but because of that and i'm i can't speak for him but something changed for him because he started going so i mean what what what would it take for a guy to like and he's been in there before it's not like i was like you don't even know it's It's so tight, if anything, it's less than before. And he's like, wait, how do I, it's not that he was like craving it so much, because

we were doing everything else. We were getting on. You weren't like doing it in the ear. You were really doing stuff. Yeah, but there was something about not being able to have penis and vagina sex, which is, you know, procreative. And even if you don't want kids, there's something about it that feels different that made him go, it made him, I think, respect me that I was having a boundary, which I'm bad at having.

women tend to think men will not like you if you go no i'm not gonna have sex to you men fucking love being told that they can't you like that you can't they love it you think they're going to hate it and they might at first but they will start going like wait so he was just like what do you mean by this husband thing and i go i just want i think it needs to be someone that like goes to therapy works on themselves kind of things like that and um and i wasn't even telling him this things to be like here's what you need to cross up on your list right he just started like going like you just started changing and like I don't know what it was and I started going who is this guy who I'm not having sex with show it up to do other stuff with

me and we just started like falling in love again without sex on the table which is always what it had been and by that time that's when the camera showed up and I did not plan it this way like you know you pitch a show and then it takes a year and a half before it is even being filmed so the show it pitched was me being single dating in St. Louis going on the dating apps being like this kind of famous girl that's back in her hometown dating like normal dudes like what's that going to be like and then the cameras show up and I'm like okay um so I have to do this show that I pitched like before I thought this was a thing and I'll still date you off camera because I know you don't want to be on camera but like I am going to try to actually date and I'm not going to fake it and I made him want

you even more you know who knows because he was just like I'll step up and try it let no I'll do it if you want and he goes would you want me on the show and I go yes and he stepped up and man that was the hottest thing ever because he's someone who's very guarded with his personal life and just like rightfully so because i am so unguarded about it dating me is like i got to keep something private and because she's a loose cannon like and he was willing to go on camera and it was very uncomfortable like i'm watching scenes now from the show where i'm like oh my god i can't believe i'm watching this at a watch party with him sitting next to me and all our friends and we're watching a fight we got into that was really bad and like re-triggering

and all the stuff, but it was really hot to me that he stepped up. He even went to couples counseling with me on the show. I'm trying to reframe men being emotional as a hot thing, which is very hard to do because they've been so shamed about having emotions. But I think that there was something about like, I know this is so hard for you. And the fact that you're doing something that's so hard for you is so manly. Like you're doing something difficult. Like that's like you climbing a mountain or like running into a burning building.

Like, you know, I want to pitch a series of like calendars where men are just crying in a therapist office or punching a pillow and working out their anger towards their dad. And that's like the new, you know, firebin. Yeah. Like, yes, journaling, meditating, like downloading a meditation app. Can we please do this calendar and like sell it for charity towards mental health? Yes, because it is sexy. This isn't like me and Caitlin just trying to get our boyfriends to go to therapy. This is, when I find out, I don't, when I was swiping, guys, the only guy I ever, like, ever actually went on a date with was someone who was like, I meditate and I was like, he might be down for therapy.

Like, I want a guy that I was, I'm so horned up for it. I'm horned up for a guy that wants to get emotional and isn't scared to talk about their feelings because for me, that means that I'll be able to talk about my feelings. And I'll, again, it's that safe place where like, there is nothing more attractive when they can be themselves, when you can be yourselves and when. when you can actually just like surrender to who you are as a human being to your core, even if that means you might look a little crazy or be super emotional or have dark thoughts. Like you're able to feel safe enough in that relationship to be like, and what are your demons? And then let's do it after we talk about our demons.

And talking about your demons, acknowledging that you have these thoughts or that you have jealousy issues or whatever these really shameful things are, you didn't choose to be a jealous person. like if a guy admits to me something all these things in his past that are so maybe embarrassing for him to admit I was you know molested as a child

and that makes me feel whatever it happened to them that makes them feel so much shame none of that you chose whether you're an angry jealous person when a guy is ready to admit that about himself that is that to me means you're ready to deal with it because if you're admitting something and you're being really

honest with it that means you have to face it so to me admitting those things I want a guy who just is they don't have to change but they want to change I don't anyone who just thinks

they're perfect right now and is no interest in bettering themselves like I don't want that person in my life whether it's my girlfriend whether it's my housekeeper like who who comes out thinking they're perfect

a narcissist and yes they run our countries and they run you know businesses that we rely on and they're the billionaires but that is not someone I want in my person personal life. It's, that's a, that's a person with a personality disorder that is really sad,

actually. Well, it's so sad. And it's scary, too, because, like, at what point are you going to take a turn? And then, like, are you just forever going to keep this persona up of, like, being a perfect human being? Because everybody has shadows and demons that they need to work out. And if you're going to continue to play that role, what other things can you fake in life or, like, lies can you tell? And that's scary. Oh, yeah. When I catch a guy lying ever, and I, I mean ever. When I catch a guy, I used to lie in my relationship a lot

because I was so scared that he would get mad at me about something small. And so, you know, when given an option to do a white lie where it's like on this hand, if I do say this answer, he might, it might lead to a day of him being mad at me

and being weird because he had anger issues about, you know, that he would just shut down. That's how he dealt with anger. And so it was like, okay, either I have an afternoon with him where he just doesn't talk to me

or I say a lie and he does. I would choose the lie instead of confronting triggering this thing in him that I didn't know how to handle and he didn't know how to handle so he caught me in a lot of white lies and he sent me this book called uh lying by sam harris and it's just about how how detrimental any kind of lying is and so i now get it's a huge red flag if a guy i'm with is like i'm going to call into work tomorrow and just tell him i'm sick and i'm like no or like oh i'm going to tell my mom i'm like busy with this thing and it's like you just don't want to go i'm like i know that if you're willing to do those

little things. And in front of me, I can only imagine, I'm not going to trust you ever about why you tell me you can't go to the, you know, thing. It's okay to say you can't go to something without giving a reason. You can just say I can't. That's true. One of my favorite things that I've learned to do is, I think it's so important. And I know it's in the book like the four agreements or whatever, but it's so true. And that's being impeccable with your word. Like if you if you don't want to do something and you're going to make up a little white lie, like, why not just say like, hey, that here's the truth like people want to hear that more than like I like I feel like you can tell when something's an excuse too like I feel like if somebody said yeah oh I have to do that like didn't

tell you the last time I couldn't podcast with you because I took a Xanax and I was like I can't do it I took a Xanax and like yes yes that's right like I first of all even if let me let me like in my head the worst reaction I could have had is she obviously doesn't give a fuck about me she's like using drugs and, like, wanted to get picked up when she knew she had something to do with me. She doesn't like me. She doesn't care about me. She doesn't value me. Or the story can be no one really wants to hurt anyone else.

We're just trying to not be in pain. You were probably having a bad day. You took something to relax. It made you feel a certain way that you're like, I'm not ready. Like, it's not taking everything so offensively, but also being able to cancel something or not go to something and just say, I'm feeling sick. And it might, you know, the sickness might be your mental. illness might be you being depressed like you can just say I'm not feeling well or I just can't go

rarely do people go wait why and ask for if you say I can't make it I'm so sorry something came up I can't make it people go well what came up and you can go right you know the mental version of explosive diarrhea is what I'm experiencing right now you can say that and they just go okay yikes I just don't little lies like if we were out to lunch and I saw you go I'm just going to text him like I can't make it because I'm in traffic and I just want to stay here longer and talk to you I would clock, I would subconsciously, in the moment it'd be like, oh yeah, good, do that, Caitlin. But subconsciously, I would go, I'm not going to trust her the next time she gives me an excuse for why she's not doing something. Like, I'm not going to, there's going to be something there even though I subconsciously too.

So I just don't like liars anymore. And you don't have to be, you and I are oversharers. And that's what we appreciate in each other. Like, I love that you give me every detail. But I think some people go, well, I'm not going to tell someone that I'm on X if I'm late. You don't have to do that. You can just say, I can't make. it. And then you're not a liar because keeping up with lies, whew, you can't. You can't.

You actually can't. Like, you'll just make yourself look stupid and people won't want to be friends with you. Okay, quick break in this episode to talk about one of my favorite hair care brands, living proof. So you might have seen my Kardashian-looking locks on my recent trip to Miami, but if you heard my episode with Lowe, you know that those were just clippins. So yeah, not my real hair, obviously. My real hair has been a challenge for me for actually many years of my life. and I'm always trying to keep it healthy and give it a little refresh. And the good news is that Living Proof has a reset button for every single hair type and texture. So no matter what hair issues you're struggling with, whether it's damaged from styling or dying it,

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mask. I think I've said that before in the pod when my hair is feeling dry, or I've just been styling it a lot. And their dry shampoo is always a must, whether I'm on vacation or home. I actually think I have a bottle of it in my car. Put signs to work and unlock your best hair with Livingproof. Go to livingproof.com slash vine and use Codevine to get 10% off your first purchase. That's Livingproof.com slash vine, codevine for 10% off your first purchase. This episode of Great Therapy is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Hey, Vinas, whether you love true crime or comedies, celebrity interviews, news, or even motivational speakers, you call the shots on what's in your podcast queue, am I right?

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quote and you'll be able to choose the best option for you. Fast. It's just one of the many ways you can save with progressive insurance. Quote today at progressive.com to try the name your price tool for yourself and join the over 27 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, price and coverage match limited by state law. Wait, this whole time, I'm just sitting here thinking, did he get in your hole now? Because as things, yeah, oh, great. Well, stay tuned on the show. It happens because it gets to the point where I'm like, I trust that, well, I read this book called Getting Too, I do.

I've probably talked to you about it before. But years ago, I got turned on to this book. Oh, my God, your listeners, like, need to hear this book. It's any girl out there who's a single, straight woman, trying to seduce a man, there's this book called Getting Too, I Do. and it's the worst name for a book ever but it's, I just did a HBO special that's coming out this summer. The whole special is about taking this book

and like trying to make the lessons in it funny so that girls, because I learned so much from it is that you don't, just don't have sex with a guy before they love you. Because they change after sex. We all feel it. Whether the guy you're with is still with you, there's, we all feel it.

Like the guy I love now, post-coitus, there's a different energy in the room than there was before. You're not as interested in my stories. You're not as touchy-feely. Like there's a little dampening that happens afterwards, which we all understand. But when a man doesn't love you,

that tends to make them, like, reject you. It's based on our, this book breaks it down, but there's another book that I read in tandem with it called about the male orgasm and how the male orgasm makes men, like, reject whatever they just came with because biologically they're meant to spread their seed all around the tribe.

There's no monogamy. Right. So when a man... comes his brain goes leave right now do not have sex with this girl again because you can't get something pregnant twice you don't waste another your load is precious that would be

a waste of a load so go to the next teepee because all these girls are ovulating at the same time so that's why men want to change afterwards it's they don't even want to they really do like you and sometimes afterwards guys are like why do I not like her anymore like and you go what did I do and the thing is we don't

understand it but it's our subconscious going you know this we need to make more babies and him coming in me again is not going to make it. And that's why women get clingy after sex because we also want them to move on and we found through evolution that when we get cuddly after sex it makes

someone to leave more. So we even found a way that makes them go and run away from us. So what you do, what this book teaches you is that you just don't have sex with a man because when you do have sex with a man and you actually have an orgasm with a man your brain for a woman

to have an orgasm, you release 20 times the amount of oxytocin it takes for a man to have an orgasm. That's why it's so much harder for us to do. Now, oxytocin is obviously the same thing that gets stimulated when you do oxy, the drug that is ruining America. So this is why you get addicted to men after you have sex with them. That takes years to get withdrawal, to get the withdrawal symptoms of. That's why you get crazy after you have an orgasm with a guy.

And men love if you respect them because subconsciously they want respect for not their women because it's very hard for them to not other women and they're doing that because they love you that's why men get really impotent feeling when they get disrespected by their woman women women want our feelings cherish and men want their thoughts respected wow this book hammers home men want to hear your feelings they don't want to hear your thoughts and men do not want to talk about their feelings they only want to talk about their thoughts so the book says never ask a man how he feels unless he's on fire and that is a real thing dude like When I started just not saying like, well, how does that make you feel?

And trying to get feelings out of my man, which made him feel like, ugh. Like it made him feel like just so feminine. Yeah. And not sexual and not strong. But when I, you know, it's hard to do. I give this example in my set, but it really happened when I was using these methods in this book and trying so hard to fight everything that I want to do with men and be like, because on stage, I'm such a masculine energy woman in my life.

I mean, you too. Yeah. That for me to like turn into this. like I'm just a feeling little baby girl and what do you think we should do tonight baby like it just disgusted me to do but I go let me just try this never never start a sentence with I think with a man and only start with I feel and never ask them how they feel unless they're on fire so the guy I was trying this on got COVID and I was I remember texting him and I was like how are you feeling it and going like okay um what do you how are you thinking what are your thoughts on

the fluid in your lungs and he was just like oh yes like he loved telling me what he thought about COVID he doesn't want to talk about how he's feeling because it makes them feel feminine but wait you said you may there there's a you have another HBO show coming out on the concept of this book well I did an HBO comedy special and I just am so obsessed with this book and it I gave it to all of my friends Whitney Cummings was the first to recommend it to me like five years ago she got engaged and I remember running into her after show being like how did you get engaged like you're We're just as I am.

She's like, I read a book. And I was like, what? So she told me about this book. I started reading it. I heard, okay, you got to dress hot. You got to be like a girly girl and you got to like be quiet and be like, yes, sir. And I was like, ugh, I'm not doing this. So I rejected the book.

My friends read it. And all of my friends started getting married to these guys that used to be the biggest pieces of shit to them that would like, you know, they'd sleep with these guys and the guy wouldn't call. And some of my friends would seriously look like heroin addicts. after you know months after having a hook up with this guy that would come to town and they would get so excited they'd hook up they'd and then they'd I told a friend one friend that used this book about this the guy that she is now engaged to I told her I can't be your friend anymore if you

keep seeing this guy because I lose you lose weight you look like a drug addict like I was intervention style like I can't be your friend if you keep seeing this guy yeah then she picked up this book and started doing the book which is very hard to do because it goes against every instinct you have It tells you that you've been doing everything wrong and you go, no, that's not possible. Even though I'm single and I don't know why. I can't be doing everything wrong. And then my friends like got these guys to like these guys that I thought were hopeless. I mean, the most hopeless cases, whatever you're saying like about a guy in your life listener who's like, this wouldn't work on this one guy.

Dude, you don't know what I've seen. And so I was like, this is too interesting. I have to tell people about this. And that's what I like to do with my stand up now is take these things. that I read in books that might be like sound crazy and this book is crazy. It's called getting to I do. It's like not presented in the best way.

It's like written in the 80s by this woman who's talking to women about wanting to get married and I'm like, well, what if I try to disseminate this information for girls who might just want a boyfriend, you know? Like this isn't about wanting to get married. It's about we're wanting anything. Right. Whatever you wanted in a relationship

and it's just so, I think psychology is so interesting. And so I just made this, I took the concepts in this book that is all I really want to talk about anyway. And I just started talking about it on stage. And I was like, oh, I'm starting to make this funny. And so my next special is a lot of what you just heard here today, but more examples and just me going over everything I've done wrong in relationships in the past and what we should teach our daughters now. I really believe in we need to teach girls how to give hand jobs because I think girls sleep with guys too soon because they want guys to

like them. No girl in high school is having sex because they're like, I love a dick in me. You're doing it because you want this guy to like you and you want to do something that isn't going to isn't going to get you made fun of hand job is going to get you made fun of later on because you're not going to be as good at it as they are doing it you know and so girls have sex way too soon and I think if we teach hand jobs and girls really learn how to get a guy off with their hand it gives nothing a way of you to like get your hand on a penis but like they don't get blow jobs too soon they don't have sex too soon because when you're young you're just so worried about what guys think of you and um and yeah i just you know i don't have it all figured out these are just my thoughts

and so i'm sure i'm going to be have scientists be like you got it all wrong nicky it was funny but this is all wrong but it's i feel like it's i've seen it work for people oh my god and i just don't want girls to be in pain anymore over guys i'm so tired of it i know i know i think about it all the time with like having a niece or certain things i'm like i remember just being destroyed over guys in the high school, like just destroyed wanting them to like me. And now I look back at it and I'm like, oh, ew. Like if only we just knew what to do in those situations

that wouldn't make guys go, oh, God. And I guess the answer is a hand job. It's it, you know, it's we just think we grow up as little girls being told like if you like someone and you have something to share with them that you want, that you don't mind sharing with them, it will make them like you more. sharing is caring and then you get to high school and you like a boy and they want to have sex with you and you're like this will get him to like me right and then it's the opposite effect where the next day he's not looking at you at school it's like wait why did this not work for that and i think it's about educating women about sex will not make a man like you more it'll make them they've conquered it they've climbed the mountain they don't need to climb that mountain again you need to get them to love you in order to keep coming back and sex is not going to lead to love it's a way of expressing love and deepening love but it's not a way to get you get love. Did you read this book before doing F-Boy Island?

Like, were you able to, like, incorporate that into the hosting that you did about show? Oh, my God, so much. Caitlin, it's so funny you say that because I, the producers would be like, we don't need you to ask these girls, like, to tell these girls not to sleep with these guys. Like, I was like, do not sleep with them. They will like you more if they, like, I would, I would tell these girls sometimes.

I would kind of almost marvel at the young women. today who do kind of know these things instinctually when I don't think we did of oh I'm not gonna I'm not gonna let him know how much I like him I'm not doing that because I used to just be like I think about you all the time like you would like let it out and you tell the guy how much you like them and guys like chase the guys like a pursuit so I oftentimes would be actually really impressed with these women with how savvy they were about how the male brain is different than the female brain because I think I always thought they're the same as me I would would love to hear how much this guy loves me.

That would make me like him more. When really, actually, that doesn't make me like them more, too. Like, I think we don't even know what we want to hear because as soon as you get a guy that you've been pursuing to like you, I mean, this happened to me until, you know, my late 20s where every single guy I would pursue as soon as I would get them, the second they'd be like, I broke up with my girlfriend, I'm ready. I'd be like, no, I don't like you anymore. I don't know why.

I'm so sorry. But it's because I wanted what I couldn't have because I really did, I was scared of intimacy. So the second it became available, I was like, no, I only liked you because I could never have you because I don't feel worthy of love. You want to love me? Gross. What's wrong with you? You know, all of these things. But I, yeah. You, I remember you saying on one of your podcast that watching back, you liked who you saw on TV. Yes. And you liked who you were. How did you get there? Like through all of, because I, we've been talking about like, you know, like dark times and insecurities and body image issues.

and everything, how are you able to watch yourself on TV and go, I like who that is? I wanted to do a reality show for so long and I never pitched one because I knew that I wouldn't be able to handle seeing my bad posture, like seeing a side of myself where I would get used to the cameras and I would see a side of myself I didn't want to see. Yeah. I think that I only pitched this because I, the pandemic made me address like my eating disorder issues which were kind of being masked as like oh intermittent fasting like I was and I didn't look anorexic I didn't look like someone with a disease disorder I had it hidden but it made me when

my work went away I could no longer keep busy from the thoughts that wanted me to starve wanted me to overexercise and it was just a chamber of torture and that's why I was living with my parents when the world shut down I didn't have anyone who I thought I didn't have a partner that I desperately wanted because there was candy wrappers in my bed every night you know like so i got into eating disorder like recovery and i think that was what made me be able to love through that process learn to love myself i've always been fighting um who i am and wanting to be other people which is still a constant struggle for me it's still a thing where i have to meet different people on instagram like i i still struggle with it but i i just know that you know that you know

if my body doesn't look the way I wanted to, if my face is looking a weird way, if, you know, if I say something on an interview where I'm like, God, that wasn't funny at all. All these things where I go, what are you doing? I always just go, I'm not trying to look fat today. Like, if I could choose and press a button on what my body would look like, it wouldn't be this.

So why am I taking responsibility like this is my fault? Well, because you didn't go to the gym yesterday and you just sat and watched TV all night, you fat ass, or you binge and you didn't do this. Well, if I could have done anything, think if I could have gone to the gym yesterday I would have it's not like and I know I could I could walk to the gym I couldn't do it because if I could I would have so as soon as I connected what is going on with me mentally or my body when I look at my thighs and I go whoa that's a that's a different

look than I want it to be today I just go did you ask for this did you sign up did you pick this this thigh out this morning like Mrs. Potato Head no it's not my fault stop acting like I'm I'm responsible for this I'm not I'm not responsible that I can't exercise every day anymore I sometimes just it's overwhelming to me it's scary to me whatever my fears are like I I would love to be perfect if I could pick that a perfect face and a perfect body and freeze time and not age I would so when something is wrong with me I don't internalize it like it's my fault so now when I watch this reality show and I go yikes lady that you look rough it like you couldn't put on a little under eye concealer for that scene because you wanted to be so honest I just go well if I knew it was going to look like that I would have done something different but I didn't know so it's okay okay so I did that interview on Conan

and I forgot to say that hilarious joke which was the only joke I was excited about saying and I completely forgot it okay instead of going like what the wrong with you you're an idiot I go yeah well did I I didn't want to do that I just happen I'm not responsible for all this shit so I think that's it now

is that I've learned through eating disorder recovery that not only is are my thoughts about food and body image not my fault or whatever my body looks like is none of my business it's not my fault that everything is not my fault and that doesn't mean i don't take accountability for my actions but i'm not a bad person because i do things or how i look and i think that's where i'm able to see myself in some really unflattering light literally and be like yikes girl and just laugh about it instead of being like that means you're a bad person like you're not as good as like other girls

would have a clean room what's wrong with you it's like well I did other shit that day besides clean my room or maybe I didn't do other shit that day but I was depressed and they weren't like I don't know I mean the thing is too if at the beginning of the podcast you said something about like when you're feeling depressed or whatever and in my head I went oh but she's got everything going on and then you think the same thing but even if we had you know the perfect face the perfect body

the perfect this we would still find things to compare to other people that would make us feel like failures and I think we all are noticing right now how fast time is going i don't know if that's like i swear something's happening in the universe where i'm like it's a joke on the world like something is happening with time where it's like going so fast where you look on like something from five years ago you're like why did i even care about that five years ago and we have to have that mentality of like comparison is always the thief of joy and we have to keep reminding ourselves of that and moving forward with we're not even going to care about this in like three months so why are we caring about this

much right now in this moment there's so many other important things nobody likes us for because we have good hair or this good butt or like anything they kind of do though kately that's where i go that's where i go nope i don't think that's helpful and i know what you're saying but they do some people do i do like you because you're cute and you i like your hair and i that's true i like all the things out there about you but sometimes i do like girls just because how they look and that sometimes i have to face that of like people always go, Nikki, it doesn't matter what you look like, your career will be great.

And I go, you are so full of shit. Stop acting like Hollywood's body except, like, I call bullshit on this whole, like, we love bigger women now. We can, we celebrate them. They're on TV, they're in movies. They have an equal opportunity to walk the catwalk like any other woman.

Oh, are you sure? Because I don't think I see, and they go, yeah, look at Lizzo, Adele before. there's like five you can name and as a skinny girl this isn't like my area to really get mad about but you know what I would like I would like the opportunity to be whatever size and whatever age I want and not worry my career was going to be taken but that is not a world we live in you and I would not be worried about aging if aging was okay it's not okay and you know what's okay to say that it's not

okay and I'm not even mad at it because listen youth is attractive because it's fertile and men one things that are fertile because there's no reason of things that aren't fertile. It goes back to being cavemen. You lose value as you age and it sucks. Okay, then my question is, and this is where I like try and surround myself with the people that matter. They don't care about what we look like. We're caring about what career-wise in Hollywood and podcast and Instagram and TV and that.

Because it's money. It's safety. It's survival. You know, it's not about money being like, oh, because I want to get this new. bag. It's about I want to be able to survive in this world and have protection for when I get sick, when my family gets sick. Wanting to make money and stay hot so that you can still work in this industry is not a shameful thing. And I really resent when I get backlash from other people being like, Nikki, you talking about wanting to be hot and wanting to be young and

talking about procedures you've had is a really bad example for young girls. And I go, I get that. I can totally see how that's a bad example. But, you know what I think is a worst example is pretending like I love myself on days I don't when society is telling me I shouldn't love myself like I don't want to lie and be like I love the skin I'm in if I don't love the skin I'm in I know it's shallow but I want to make money I want to live I want when my mom gets cancer I want to be able to go mom I got you don't worry about the bill don't get stressed out like that's really all I think about and I'm motivated to make money because I feel like when your parents

or people you love eventually get sick or you get sick, the stress of the medical bills adds so much onto an illness because stress causes disease. And so I am always thinking about when my parents get sick, I just want to go, don't worry about the money because I know how my parents stress about money.

So I take jobs just to have that day of like, got it, girl. You just ride this out and relax. And so that's why I want, you know what? That's why I want to get Botox is because I want my mom's cancer treatment to be as easy for as possible.

Is that noble? Is that a good reason to get Botox? That is so noble. It does lead to that. It sounds crazy, but I actually understand what you're saying. And that's why people are always like, Caitlin gets so much Botox and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, but if I didn't,

you'd be complaining how old I look and then I wouldn't be in the same position that I'm in right now. And is that up? Yes, yes, it is. stop talking about how women fuck up their face with plastics I'm so tired of this line when people are like

Meg Ryan ruined her face you she's just trying to look good for you she's not trying to look like no one tries to fuck up their face if anything and I think I've talked to you about this before women who do stuff to their face are so brave because that is a risk bitch and we are risking doing something

that is insane to like be like Okay, I'm going to change it. Yes, it could be very high reward, but it is very risky. And I, and you see the way it doesn't pay off for women sometimes. And so when we judge women for, oh, she ruined her face, why does she want to look like that? No one wants to, women are only trying to be liked, these women. Like, that's why they're doing it. So when something happens where their face doesn't look right to you and you get mad at them about it,

they're not trying to make you mad. They're not trying to look like that. They tried their best. And we can't all have the Kardashians doctors, whoever they are, they're doing a fantastic job. But does that, do you feel pressure being put like next to like fill their shoes on E? Because wasn't there a billboard or something about how, what was the billboard I saw? It was like keeping up as so last year. And like there's all this E did a really cool thing, which was once they started working with me on at like marketing the show, they got more and more comfortable with leaning into the comedy and like saying the very honest thing, which was we just.

lost the Kardashians, which is a huge loss for us. But now we have this other show. Let's promote a show by talking about a show we lost, which is a wild idea. I do, it was just a coincidence that that happened. Like I didn't see an opening and go, oh, you know, when I pitched the show, the Kardashians were still very much in place at E. I feel really good about filling that role because I love the Kardashians. I think they are brave for sharing their struggles, their fights, all the stuff that they do share with us. That seems very real to me.

and I know maybe a set up in terms of like, okay, you guys are going to talk about this and it leads to a fight. Like I said before, but I was excited to, you know, actually go without makeup and scenes or like have my room be really messy because I feel like that was the side of the Kardashians

where we saw a very manicured version of them that we could compare ourselves to. And I was excited to do a reality show off the heels of what they did and obviously did very well. And I watched every second of it. Of course. But also just do it my way, which is, let's just try to make this a little more real and not soft lighting focus and not, you know, total two hours of glam so I can have a conversation with my sister about, you know.

On a canoe. Yes, exactly. Like, I don't need to get three hours of hair makeup to go on a canoe with my dad. Because that's what the Kardashians do best. They show the most manicured, polished, like, even if they're doing fights, they're doing it fully glammed. Like, they always, it's just perfection. And it's like their hair is perfect. Their makeup's perfect.

Their aesthetic of their house is perfect, everything. And that they do that perfectly. And that's what we like to see. And that might be them. That also might be like that almost, you can almost say that's real because that is how they probably would live even if the cameras weren't there, maybe. I agree.

I just had that epiphany. So, okay, I'm going to stop calling them fake for that because that might be who they actually are. I think it is. And I think, but that's like a almost like a fantasy world that we're watching. And when we watch you, it's so nice. And I know the word refreshing is probably so overused with you, but that's such the biggest compliment ever.

But, like, I think that's what people, that's what I want to watch on TV. I like, it's nice to watch the fantasy world and be like, wow, I'll never live like that, no matter what. I'd try, but I won't. Yes. Where I want to watch the unpolished, funny, cute, like, relatable shit of you with your family and having a messy room or not putting full glam on to have conversations. Like, that's just so.

So I think that's why people like The Bachelor so much, too, is because the girls that go on it aren't getting glam. And yeah, they're all like tens. But they're more like, oh gosh, she really did just come from the restaurant and get on TV and it's relatable. And she's just trying to find love like a normal girl. And I think that's what people love. Yeah. I think so. I think that that's what I always make content that I'm like, okay, I would like this.

Especially as a young girl, I'm always trying to make things for my younger self that wasn't as savvy. and took TV for what like for face value I never I thought what I was seeing was like what was real yeah especially when it was a reality show so I think now I just really try to put something out there that takes me off of any kind of pedestal someone might put me on I really just started as I got a little bit more famous in the past years having girls be like you're so pretty and like your legs and like look at your skin and your hair and I'm like I have hair extensions in I have fake eyelashes on that I went through a thousand photos to pick that one I don't even relate to this photo yeah I'm Sally Hanson sprayed like orange myself yeah my shower looks like a

like I'm gonna get tan lung in 20 years there's gonna be a class session lawsuit against all like Sally Hanson because of how much stuff I spray on myself that I just I just remembered being like worshiping celebrities and being like she's perfect and I just the second that started coming in, I instantly was like, no, I must, I must dismantle this lie because it is not to be like, no, I'm gross. Like, yeah, I'm gross, but like, it's okay. That's the kind of thing. Whereas before I think I was like, I'm disgusting and I would be more self, like, punitive about it and, um, and make fun of myself for it. And now it's just like, well, I'm trying my best. And sometimes I really do get sad that I'm, I don't look a certain way or that my room is in a certain

cleanliness. But it's probably means that, uh, my period's, about to start if I'm internalizing those things like it makes me a bad person it's a good sign that you know blood's about to start trickling yes check the flow app take the flow app uh well speaking of like relatable shit and which I love it's it's time for you to give me your confession okay this is really something I've only confessed on my podcast that I do every day called the Nikki Glazer podcast. And I hate that I couldn't come up with something that I haven't told those listeners because those listeners, I know more about me than my best friends.

This is a weird one. And even they are like, we don't need to hear about this anymore, Nikki. But I, okay. And I honestly, I don't think I could ever really show the depths of my obsession with this stuff. Yeah. But I love, okay, you know how some people like pimple popper videos? Yeah. And that's like gross in and of itself.

But that's a big thing. Yeah. I do not like those, but I'm obsessed with watching videos of people having their planters warts on their feet scraped, dug out. And I are like calluses, like shaved off so much so. And I watch it every single night. I've seen every single video on YouTube of a wart being like surgically removed from a person's foot, literally every single one. I search every night for new ones. I'm obsessed.

I am in a subreddit called warts where we just share picture. Like, people just, like, look at post videos of their own wort. I have been wanting to get planners' warts so bad so I could operate on my own foot. I own scalples that I bought off Amazon so that my, that Andrew's girlfriend wants at a corn on her foot. And I was like, can I please dig it out? So I bought these stupid scalples and did a surgery on her. I am going to Detroit soon for shows. And a dermatologist said I could shadow them and watch them do it in the office.

And I'm more excited about this than I am like to meet. Taylor Swift. Like, I cannot. It's just like, for some reason, it soothes my soul in a way. Like, it relaxes. I wonder why? I don't know. You know what? Some people watch those videos of like horses, hooves being like taken off and like scraped out. It's called, there's a method to it, but it's so satisfying to see this like. Okay. I forget what it's called, but it's a whole genre of videos where people are like, oh, oddly satisfying where they're like, yeah, I love it. That's what it is to me. It's oddly satisfying to you. There's something so good about getting out this thing that's like a growth that isn't like gooey or bloody like I don't like pus I don't want

popping I don't want I just want to dig something out yeah and I don't know what it is I really don't know but I wish there were more wart heads out there like me because man I get so jealous of people that are into pimples because they have endless endless videos people have a lot of love for that community but no one likes us word ads well maybe you got a whart maybe you'll find someone from this podcast maybe you just opened up a whole the world of warts that I don't want to get anyone hurting themselves, but if you want to take a scalpel to your wart and film it and send it to me, I will be very great. You need to just go walk around barefoot in an outdoor pool and get yourself some

warrants. I'm scared, though, that they're going to get on my face or something. I only want them on the bottom of my feet where they're calluses. It's a very weird requirement. And I'm embarrassed that I even admitted this, but that is my confession. My YouTube, I can not give someone my YouTube to, like, pull up something if their phone isn't working or dead because they will be horrified. I'll be like, um...

See my suggested, like the suggestions I get, it's miles and miles of footage of warts that is so gross. And I've seen them all. Like, every single one has been watched at some point in the last 10 years. Oh my gosh. I honestly, that makes me want to vomit a little bit,

but I'm sure. And that's why people like, stop talking about it. No, I'm going to go watch one just to see how gross you really are, but that's okay. Yeah. Okay. I'll, maybe send you a good one. Yeah, send me a good one.

And maybe I'll, maybe I'll get into it. Who knows? It's, maybe it's a thing. I didn't even know I'm into. My confession isn't that good. How do you do this every week? Well, I don't. I just, if I have one, I'll say it.

But, like, I wanted one so bad. So I was in Miami this last weekend where Michelle Obama was sitting next to me at the F1 race. Yeah. Why did you go to the F1 race? How did you get it? My girlfriend, Penny, who I've known since I was 18 years old, she works with Lewis Hamilton. And so, like, he was dumping tequila in my throat.

at like three in the morning the other night. Was Hamilton? Yeah. Wait, how did he reach it? You stand a little stool? No, he's a short guy, right? Yeah, he's pretty short.

He's, I mean, he's awesome. He's a vegan. I love that guy. He's a, he's funny. He's really nice. But yeah, it was so bizarre. But I wanted to have like all these embarrassing stories because like Michelle Obama and like Tom Brady and David Beckham and like all these people were there in this

in this paddock suite that we were in. And I was like, okay, this is going to be great material for my podcast. Like, I got to do something stupid. Sean Mendez, like I got introduced to him. And I was like, I'm Canadian too. Okay, bye. Like, that was as embarrassing as it got because I couldn't even bring myself to like make eye contact with these people because... So you didn't even get any cringe stories because... No, the only cringe thing I got was I took a picture of the back of Michelle Obama's head and I feel guilty about it because I was like, she wouldn't want that. Like, why would I do that to her? And so that's all I really did. But so I was trying to think of something embarrassing and I thought of it. And it's, this is, this is,

Like, it's embarrassing, but it's not as good as yours. I paid for a cameo. I paid $350 for a cameo from Lisa Vanderpump, who I talked to on DMs. I could have just, like, asked her for a favor, but I just could. I paid for my girlfriend's birthday. That's so nice. But then I went and messaged her just so she knew I did it. And I was like, hey, just so you see it, I bought a cameo.

And now I'm like, oh, my gosh, do I unsend it? Because she saw it. And I'm so embarrassed. She didn't heart it or anything? Nothing. You know how often, Caitlin, you and I both go through our DMs and we see something and we forget to. Sometimes I make it unread so that the person doesn't think I'm not getting back to them. You just don't have time because you're like, you look at your, you just like automatically go to your DMs and like look at it.

And then you're in a conversation. You're like, why did I do something that requires my attention when I'm, so it could have been that where she was just distracted. I don't think it was like, what a loser. She's so nice. I would have been. I mean, if. No, I think it's cool. I love that. That's going to be so fun.

Well, I hope she sees it. Very vulnerable for you to share that she left you on red, though. I think that was the most embarrassing part. I'm like, $350 for a cameo from Lee. I was like, shit, man. She's not giving them away. And then I was like, eh, whatever. My price is $1,000 because I signed up for a cameo.

And then I kept getting too many because they were just like, you know, I was doing it for like $100 or $50. And then I put mine for $1,000 because I didn't know how to take my profile off. But I wanted to make them stop because I couldn't keep. up with them. So now it looks like I just think that I'm hot shit on there, so I just want to be clear. I do not think I'm cool enough to, I'm just doing that so I don't get them anymore.

Yeah, you're a business woman. I'm sure people think I'm such a jackass. And they're like, who does she think she is? I see, I can't even put, I don't, I can't even put myself on cameo because I feel too bad to even like charge people to say like, hey, how's it going? And I felt the same way. I would put too much effort into them because I'm like,

okay, if someone's paying $200 to get a cameo from me or whatever it was, I would work for hours on like I'd write a song for them and write a roast and I'd be like why am I working five hour shifts for one cameo wearing my 800 bucks because I didn't feel but my roommate Andrew

he would do his and he would just open up his phone while he was watching TV and be like hey guys bad lighting and be like hey happy birthday John it's Andrew just hanging out my apartment so just want to wish you up and I'm like I'm like putting up the ring light and writing a script and I'm like

I can't keep doing this this is a full time job me because I feel so bad charging me. Oh my God. I totally feel you on that. Well, I could talk to you for eight hours. I know, I know. We got to go. Thank you so much for having me again. Thank you. Go rub your feet on some toads or something. I'm going to go into a shower in a dirty arena, cry, barefoot, get warts, get my feelings out, kill two birds. That's what I'm going to do. Wow. That sounds like something I could get on board with minus the, well, if I was there with you, I would help you. We would cry

together in the shower. You'd rub my back, but you'd have flip flops on. I'd have flip flops on. Yeah. I freaking love you. You're the best. I'm so proud of everything you're freaking doing. You are crushing and you're just one of my favorite humans. So keep doing what you're doing. Thanks, girl. You too. I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now ending. Thanks for listening to Off the Vine, Grape Therapy. Tune in to hear new mini-sodes every Thursday. And check out new full-length episodes every Tuesday, exclusively on podcast 1.com. The One app and subscribe on Apple Podcasts. Who's not with OTV?