Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Grape Therapy: Overcoming Loss & Heartbreak with Serene Russell

Episode Date: October 19, 2023

After working on herself and finally finding the light through the darkness, Serene Russell is ready to share her story with Kaitlyn. She's experienced so much hardship over the last few years from the loss of close family members to navigating grief on National TV to then experiencing a difficult heartbreak. Serene shares how she continued to push through the pain, process what she experienced, and get herself to the place she is today—a good place.  In this episode, she opens up about what exactly happened, why she lost trust in herself, and what’s next for her. As heartbreaking as her experience is, we ask that you please not bully or throw hate at anyone. This conversation is part of her healing process, and to let others know that if you are going through a difficult time—it will be okay. Oh, and if you want to hear KB’s confession, leave a review below… We might release it in a future episode if there’s enough interest. For now, we’ve added it to the vault! Thank you to our sponsors! Check out these deals for the Vinos: NUTRAFOL - Get $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code VINE. LIVING PROOF - Visit LivingProof.com/VINE and use code VINE to get 15% off your first purchase. APARTMENTS.COM - The place t o find a place. LOFT - Get $25 off your full price purchase with code OFFTHEVINE. Offer valid 10/19/23 through 1/1/2024 at 2:59am ET only at LOFT.com when you enter code OFFTHEVINE at checkout. Valid on in-stock full price merchandise, excluding sneak preview, third-party merchandise, and cashmere. Total full price purchase must exceed $25 before taxes and shipping & handling are applied. Offer not combinable with total store promotions, free shipping on qualifying orders of $99+ or other discounts unless otherwise stated. In the event of a return, discount will be deducted from refund and may not be re-used. Not redeemable for cash. May not be applied towards payments on outstanding credit balances, purchases of gift cards or e-gift cards, or, except as stated in our Return Policy, adjustments to prior purchases, returns, or exchanges. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now starting. Hey, everybody, welcome to Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow. Today, we have an angel on the podcast. I think she floated down from the heavens above and sat right in this chair with me in Nashville to talk about some of her hardships that she's gone through. I really hope that you watching at home or listening in your earholes, this can be a reminder for you that when there's darkness, there is also light. There will always be light at the end of a dark tunnel. Experiencing grief looks different for everybody through relationships, a job, a friendship, a partnership, a partnership. grieving does look different for everybody but we see you we hear you we love you there is hope for

everybody and i hope you enjoy this beautiful conversation with serene thank you thank you for coming i feel like i when people feel or think of my podcast as like a safe place or a place where i want you to feel empowered like that warms my whole soul so thank you for trusting me because i always want people to feel comfortable oh i got you mine you did a thank you Thank you. Cheers. I've never tried it before. Well, I'm excited for you. Do you like a Pinot Noir? Yes. I love it. It's my favorite. It is my favorite. Oh, shit, sister. I'm excited. Oh, my goodness. That is so good. I know I'm biased, but it's the only Pino I drink. No, that's so good. I know it's the only Pino I drink. When do you leave? I leave tomorrow. What are you doing tonight? Nothing. Oh, I have no plans. Do you want to have plans? Like, we can go to dinner somewhere if you're like. I would love to go to dinner. Oh, sure. Okay. I'll take you to dinner. I'll take you to, what is your? What is your? What is your? What is your? What is your? What is your? What is your? What is your? What is your? What is your? What is. What is your favorite kind like genre of food i love comfort food but i will also eat anything i love comfort food too okay i'll think of a couple places okay well guys we'll go to dinner now you have plans you can't come to nashville and not have plans i know and i've like always i've like gone through nashville but i've like never been here

really yeah and that's so weird i know that that's weird yeah that is weird okay well we got to take you to dinner tonight we'll show you i'll go for a cocktail and then go to dinner i'm so here okay amazing you're in oklahoma are you plan on staying there because you probably move back there after everything and it's nice to be around people that ground you in such hard times. Is that why you went back? That's exactly why I went back. And do you have any plans on moving anytime soon? Are you like, I'm staying home for a minute? Just for a minute. I'm not really sure like where I want to end up. Yeah. I'm open. Like moving away for the first time was actually a really good thing. So that was the first time you ever moved away from home? Yes. And you moved across to San Diego. Yes. Drove there.

Wow. You drove there with all your stuff packed up. Very Oklahoma of me. It turned into like 28 hours with two cats in the car. Oh, Lord. Yeah. Oh, boy. Did you see yourself ever living in California? Were you like, this is, I'd do anything for love? Both. Yeah. Both. I, like, modeled in the past. So I had thought about living in L.A. before, but I was in college. And so there was no way. Like, how was I going to do that? Did it? Did it live up to your expectations? Did you get there and you're like, this is it? Or were you like, eh? Like, I didn't get to see very much of it. Honestly. I guess you're in San Diego. I was in San Diego, and then, like, for a large chunk of that, I was, like, kind of hidden. So it's true. It was, I didn't really get to, like, see very much. Well, but I drove to L.A. a lot. One of my favorite thoughts is laughing in the places you used to cry. Yeah.

So you're going to go back one day and you're going to like. I'm going back tomorrow. You're going, there you go. You're going back tomorrow. Really? Yeah. I'm going to just go see friends and. Teddy's Bachelorette.

Oh, fun. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Teddy. I forgot. She got a game. Oh, that's exciting. That would be so fun to see all your girlfriends and you get to laugh where you used to cry.

Right. Think of that the whole time. Yes. And you haven't seen people since. No, I haven't. My gosh. It's been so long. You have. I saw Genevieve, but like that was in Florida.

Like I haven't been. She's a hoot. I know. Genevieve is a vibe. I really enjoy her energy. Both cuckoo jimini's. Oh, same zies. It makes sense.

Okay. It's all adding up. The math is mapping. You've gone through a lot in four years. Yeah. Like, from, you've, you've lost multiple people in your life, family members. Then you go on a national dating show, which is heavy and a lot. And to go on with that kind of emotion inside of you when it's such a heavy show where all

you do is dive into your emotions is a lot. And then breaking off an engagement, my first reaction was just like, well, I already hugged you when I came in. But I'm like, are you okay? Like, how are you doing? I mean, I'm not really either, but it's, you know, depends on the day. But how is everything feeling? Like, how are you feeling?

I'm in a much better space now. Time definitely helps. Time helps. And I do have, like, a really good therapist. And so that has been, like, life changing, you know. A good therapist and family. Are you with, who are you, like, your mom and they're there? Yeah, my mom and dad, everybody lives there.

My siblings, yeah. That's amazing. Just, like, being around them was really nice. Yeah. And also, when I went back home, like, of course. I didn't want to see anybody, and I was so scared because every time I would fly home when I lived in San Diego, people were like, oh my gosh, like, how is everything going? And I just kind of hid for a while. Yeah. Were you hiding, like, I hid for like a month. Like, I didn't even go,

I didn't go anywhere. Okay, because, I mean, first of all, let's talk about looking back on those four years. Do you feel like you've been able to fully process, or is that probably what you're doing with a therapist right now. Like, are you processing the, the amount of loss that has gone on in your life? Yeah. So right before I had gone on the show, I actually, like, saw a therapist, like, through my college just because it was, like, affecting my schoolwork. Like, I talked about, I think, losing, like, two people on the show, but it was actually four. Oh, my gosh. It was four since, like, 2019. So it was like your grandma, your aunt, your cousin, and then I had a really close friend from high school pass away. I'm so sorry. It's, I mean, you know. I do not. I do not.

and it's awful. Yeah. And it was really, I think, the most hard going on because, like, I feel like in that position, it's like so weird to just like tell someone that kind of stuff. Right. I know. Everything's so sped up. So you're like, here's all of my life story. But it's like what was happening in my life at the time. And yeah, I mean, I took a lot of time to like process it as it was happening. And I think the show also helped me do that. Yeah. Like honestly, it sounded, it's sounded really uncomfortable and it was, but it pushed me to be able to like look at myself and look at those emotions and maybe the things I like wasn't dealing with because my cousin passed away in June. Yeah. And that was like a sister with him. Wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like on one hand,

it is a nice distraction, but on the other, it's actually not because all they do on that show is dive into your emotions. And when your emotions are so tied to something tragic that's just happened, that's going to come out naturally. And so it's a blessing because you can process emotions with somebody that's literally willing to just sit down and talk to you about it, even if it is for the sake of a television show. That's something that I always look back on with gratitude is processing emotions that it was a therapy session every day to talk to, even if the producers are evil sometimes, they're actually incredible to talk to.

So I'm glad that helped you in some way. Yeah, no, it helped a ton. And I think, I think more so my experience. like going on the show and dealing with the loss that I had was like okay I want to do things like maybe I would have never done yeah because she died right young and so like I'm going to like all these new places like she had only like gone to Oklahoma and Texas and so like it was kind of like like okay like part of me wants to you're doing it for her branch out and do things for her because we were so close in age and like every time I have a new experience like I remember that so it was

it was a lot of like good things yeah that's that's a beautiful way to look at it you know when I had a best friend who was like a sister past when I was 18 and it was kind of the same. I moved to Vancouver and I started doing all these experiences and it opened my world up to not be so like sheltered or want to just stay. I'm like she would have loved to do this. I'm going to do it in her honor, which then put me in, I could almost thank her for where my life is at now because it really did put me in positions to get to where I am to not be afraid of certain failures or risk taking and all these things. And so it's like it's kind of a

sweet thought to think of her in that way. Exactly. Like you your words right there like that's exactly like my experience. That's how I think of like my relationship with her. And like obviously it's really it's so sad and feels so unnatural when somebody that young passes away. Like it was never supposed to happen. But like it's it's so interesting too. How old was she when she pass? Oh my. I don't even remember how old I was. It was such a traumatic time. I was 26 and she was 24 about to turn 25. Yeah. Like I had just turned 26. It's so sad. Like it's, isn't that weird how you just like, you don't even like, no, you black out things that are traumatizing. You really do. I blacked out half my season. Truly. Well, and it's like, too, I found out about her death watching the show.

No. Yes. I was watching Katie's season and it was like two days after I celebrated my birthday. And she had been passed away a couple days before my birthday. So I felt like really awful. There was like this weird thing like with my birthday after that and like going on paradise was like my first birthday like knowing she had passed. Whoa. So it was like, it was a lot to like kind of like when you asked me like how old I was. I was like, I forget. I had a birthday. Yeah. Yeah. You know. That makes sense. No, that makes sense. That's so much. It's just so much to go through. And I think what you're saying is part of the reason you went on the show. I know you were nominated. somebody like nominated you to go on the show were you like scared or were you like

fuck yeah she would do the same thing i think that she definitely wouldn't have done the same thing but she would have been like this is something you would do yes even though it's not something i would have signed myself up for like i'm kind of known for like making decisions out of left field and being like i want to do this and like this is my course so like i know that you know she's probably like laughing like of course you did that i mean even though it all pans out a certain way. Same thing for me. Like I'm, I look around this house and I kind of laugh at myself because I've built this home and like made it my own and I could look at it as like, I've had two failed engagements in here. Like, what am I doing? But I look at it with a lot

of pride because I'm able to look at situations that happen in my life and totally see reason for them. And sometimes that can be so hard to do in situations where you literally lose a cousin or somebody that's like a sister or a parent where you're like, why would this ever happen? And I'm not saying, well, this is why and it's great. But there are so many different perspectives to have on loss. And obviously, you've gone through a lot of that. What I'm getting at is, like, I've tried and see things positively sometimes, even though I'm a negative bitch for the most part. I'm so negative Nelly. But is there anything you look back on in these four years feeling gratitude for? Like, how is it affected you like in a positive way? I mean, it, I think.

think it just reminds you like the love is always there like I think I saw something because the grief is like I mean it can swallow you whole sometimes but it also like teaches a lot about yourself and like your resilience and your ability to like keep loving even though you know you've lost yes I mean whether that is something tragic happening a loss of a relationship it could be a friendship it could be a job I always talk about how grief is you know obviously not linear there's so many different ways for people to feel it and different experiences and relationships to feel loss from and I just feel like I don't know if that prepared you like having to go through such extreme loss to then lose an engagement did that in any way put things in a

perspective or is it just a whole other world when it's an engagement because you're also losing what could have been you know what I mean like you see a life with somebody you wanted to plan a wedding and then you have to lose that all of those thoughts for sure it's for me it's a little bit of both because I after experiencing that much loss and just a short period of time is what it felt like I would kind of look at things and be like well no one died like I got home on the show and of course like I got to my hotel room and cried and like you know sobbed and I sucked it up and was like well no one died yeah like this isn't the most terrible thing I've ever been through, like, I'll survive this. I'll be fine. But, like, what I just went through

was something I've never, I've never gone through anything like that before. Yeah. And, you know, like, I have divorced parents. Like, everybody says, like, I only wanted to be engaged one time. Right. Yeah, I said it too. That's what everybody says, you know. And I truly thought that that was it for me. And I, like, was like, okay, you can rest. Like, you can, you, this is your life. Like, this is your future. Like, you can rest now. Like, you can be at, like, you can be a, piece now so for that to end was just and you've had to do it all publicly yeah you know that adds a whole other layer of resilience to you and and emotions because people make assumptions every day every especially on social media and I don't know if you felt any of this because of course

there's rumors but like a lot of times like the women take the brunt of certain relationships and like something must have happened on your end because of course he seems so sweet you know what i mean like it's i get a lot of that you do i get a lot of that i get a lot of love and i get a lot of support but i get a lot a lot of that that's surprising to me because i mean it shouldn't be because i talk all the time and i've i've seen so many positive things like towards you honestly that's crazy that you still yeah you still get those trolls you know yeah and there they're there are was a lot of people like chalking it up to like oh like you guys will find your way back to each other like you'll be fine and like you're like you just want to grieve and like I know that you know

I put my life in this public eye and all of this but that's kind of why I disappeared for a month because like I knew I was going to have a hard time healing on my own like even if this wasn't you know a public relationship right and I was also I was like terrified of how I was going to react. Like, if someone asks me about him, like, I'm going to bust out crying. Like, there were also a lot of people that, like, didn't know. Even though there was, like, a post on my grid, they'd be like, where is he? Like, right. Oh, my gosh, you posted in a bikini, like, that's so disrespectful. And I'm like, go somewhere with that. Can you imagine? But it's, yes, you can. Yeah, but it's just, it's just, like, that's exactly

what I was, like, fearful of and having to deal with that whole other layer of it when it's, like, tumultuous inside of you is the worst. Well, you took the proper time that you needed to heal and to go through phases. And I know, like I said, there's so many rumors about what happened. And you posted a video that got people chatting. So are you ready to talk about it? I am. You are. Yeah. And I again want to say thank you for trusting me with this conversation. because I obviously understand what it's like to go through a public breakup and want to either bite your tongue or drag someone or keep a happy face on. Like there's so many different emotions

that comes with that. But I never want women to feel scared to have their voice if they were hurt or if, you know, I can own up to so many things on my end where I'm like, yeah, I f***ed up in this relationship so bad. I didn't cheat or do anything like that. But like I could have done better here. And I could, you know, call out so many things, and it can be a back and forth. But I think it's important to share your story or your feelings because it can help you in the long run. You know what I mean? And I don't know. It's just, I think to the outside world, to people that follow you to fans and followers, it seemed so abrupt.

But then when I hear you say you were hiding out for a month, like what happened? Because we saw Reality Steve spoiled something of him kissing a girl in a bar. and then I think the news came out the next day. So what happened? Yeah. So, I mean, we both had things like we could have done better in the relationship. And it was something that we were both very much still in. And, you know, we had gone to therapy, which was really cool. Like, not just because, oh, there's an issue, but, like, we were actually provided with therapy, like, from the jump of our relationship. okay and so like it's not this like simple thing that like oh it just didn't work like we you know tried to give ourselves the tools and like set ourselves up for success but like they were just

ultimately so many things and then you know like you talked about like reality steve and like a video I think after that it was just like okay there's like irreparable damage you know yeah and like I don't know and of course there was part of me that like it was like okay I really like love this person and I struggled with it for a long time like there was just no coming back from like did you find out from the internet or did you find out from somebody you know because I can't imagine finding out something like that through the internet I actually I got a DM from a stranger and I didn't get it and so that person messaged someone from my season and the person from my season messaged me and was like hey like I don't know you know of course like people say like stuff all the time but

this is something you should look at and I like video footage I like went and looked for the DM I like didn't find it and then I like searched the girl who she said sent it to her and clicked message and then it like came up that's jarring for for the girl that it was sent to to even see it right it's just like okay at this point like this is I'm so sorry that is awful and may I ask did he ever apologize yeah okay he did not that that takes away the pain that actually means nothing for all but sorry you got caught kind of thing or sorry it happened but that's so that just makes me sick to my stomach because one it's the most disrespectful thing on planet earth to do that and two like you know you're in the public eye so to publicly

humiliate you really pisses me off and i don't know i just feel like there's so many like my blood is boiling right now because that shit makes me so angry i feel like finding out from a stranger that somebody who is supposed to be your person betrayed you like that like it's such a slap in the face and is that how you have felt how hard is it to bite your tongue it's like for me it's not even about like biting my tongue it's like hard to understand right I mean yeah you can't even your brain can't even access the feelings of what happened so much time like ruminating and like playing things back in my head

like does this make sense like did I not see like things that like And I think like the most painful thing is like we were still very much like committed to each other. And so like we had had conversations about like, okay, like are we are we in this together? Like are we really doing that? Because we had started to have issues. Like we had normal relationship issues like everyone else does. And you know, obviously getting engaged in such a public way like there are so many things and so like you would know like there's so many like things like we were normal humans like trying to bring our lives together in the public eye and like so many things that like normal relationships like don't deal with and like we're both dealing with this

for the first time together so there was a lot but yeah I mean that's why it's hard to understand like what really happened and you probably are still trying to process like why I don't ask myself why anymore though and you know that's a conversation I had with my therapist is like you don't ask why something hurts you just understand that it hurts you yeah because you you don't have to ask why like why what did you do what happened it's more like why you know what I get freaked out about is that everyone seems so great at the beginning you know what I mean they can fool you I've been fooled in the past where I'm like I think somebody is this certain way and slowly but surely and probably vice versa where I'm on my best behavior and I'm

cool and on this and over time it's just like you have to almost just give it a few months of real life no social media like actually going to therapy with barely knowing each other to have important conversations to build that foundation and so to come off a show have a you guys had a pretty solid foundation compared to other bachelor relationships but you don't really know each other and you're engaged and you're trying to mess your two lives together and you feel this pressure to put on a happy face on social media and look how great and happy we are and all these things when really behind the scenes you're working through a lot and I relate to that because why would we ever put out our fights on social media right like why would we ever do that so

when people get all shocked at the end of a you're like you but you didn't see the bad stuff and you didn't want to see the bad stuff we're not going to share that that's private but I found it interesting, given your situation and what happened, how amicable the post was for the breakup. You know, you shared a lot of happy times, very mutually respectful. What made you choose that route for a breakup post? I was just in shock, I think. I didn't know, like, what the future held. Like, that breaks my heart. Yeah. It, like, makes me want to, like, tear up. Well, you can. Um, yeah, I think I, yeah, I was in shock for a really long time. Totally. And like, you know, I drove, I like drove myself home. My dad was like pulling a trailer with like all my stuff in it and like I just drove like catatonicly like staring at the road. Like what is happening? I like didn't listen to music for a month and that's like a huge like music is how I like process things. Like I've never like felt.

that like depressed in my life and it was just really it was hard to deal with so sorry i hate that i know that feeling and everybody has their own process and own feelings i'm not trying to make it about me at all i'm trying to like but that's like why i wanted to you know if if i'm going to talk to anybody about it it's going to be you because like i know that there's so much of it that like you understand for yourself and i appreciate that listening to music thing makes me want to cry because i am the exact same way it helps me heal it makes me laugh it helps me feel it helps me feel it does so many things for me and I have been in that position where I'm like I can't hear one song because everything can like trigger an emotion in me and why is it that

all like the songs come on that you don't want to hear when you are going through something hard you know what I mean I mean that's a real thing and so many people that are listening or watching can probably say I've been in that exact position and it's like you're almost numb and then you go through ways where like all the emotions come out and then you don't want to feel it and then you want to feel it and then you want to ask questions but you're like but i'm above this there's just so much that goes into especially in engagement you know i too come from divorced parents and i too said i only want to get engaged once and now i'm like third down to trum like it's you know you've i know that you're in a different place now than what you were then but grief everyone can

understand it comes in waves it can hit you in time where you don't expect it. Talking about it is probably really hard, especially knowing people are going to listen and that this is probably the first time you've really wanted to share things and get it out. And I hope you don't feel guilty about that. I mean, I, that was probably the hardest part was like a loss of trust in myself. I've never, like, I've always been so sure of myself. I've always had like a super strong intuition. Like, you know, like I joked about, you know, the difference between me and my cousin and like me deciding to like go on the show wasn't necessarily about like going on the show it's just that like I will like pick a path and commit to it like yes

and you know I might wonder like which path is for me for a while before that but like once I like commit to something I'm really committed to it and so like the most painful part was the loss of trust that I had of myself and that that's what I've like been doing the most work on is not like beating myself up. And, you know, I probably felt things a little too deeply, to be honest. But, like, I'm in a better place for it now. Because I think, you know, the me before a lot of the death and, like, all of that stuff. Like, I was a little more avoidant. Like, I didn't talk about my feelings as much. And, like, it, I feel like that is one of the good things that has come from having such a rough couple years. Is that, like, I'm learning to give myself. And, like, I'm learning to give

myself grace and allow myself to feel things to express those things and of course like I don't want to like I don't want like I'm so hard on myself like I don't want to give myself too much benefit of the doubt like that that was like my fatal flaw like going through this was like I definitely was so so so hard on myself like just feeling things or like you know healing's not linear like waking up and feeling oh I haven't thought about it yet today and then you're like I'm thinking about it right now. Stop, stop, stop. Yeah. Or then you have a day where you like open your eyes and you want to go back to sleep. Yes. You know? Yes. I do know, sadly. That's what's so discouraging too about moving forward is it's like, yes, you know you're going to have good days.

You know you're going to have bad. But the breaking trust factor is such a rough road back because you probably never thought that person would ever betray you or break your trust. So you go if that was supposed to be my person and they can do that to me and love me, how am I going to see through that the next time? Were there any red flags that you ignored at the beginning where now you go, uh-huh, or was it really just like the biggest blind side? When you're on the show, especially Paradise, you're like spending 20 hours a day together. There's like this false sense of like, okay, just because it's not like the bachelor where we might get like a couple, you know, hours or even minutes a week, like, oh, I spent 20 hours a day with this person. Like, how much

dating is that in the real world. Like how like I feel like I know this person. Yeah. I feel like I like know what to expect and I used to be like really slow to trust. Yeah. And I was just like, oh well, I got engaged on reality TV. Crazy story. But like it worked for me. Like I trust it. Like this is what's meant for me. It's not about like trust with him. It's like really about the trust with myself. Like it's really about like I've been to some low places. and I've like never lost trust in myself. Then I like also started like experiencing anxiety, like physical anxiety for the first time in my life.

Like feeling like a weight on my chest and like, you know, not feeling hungry and not knowing what that means because I've like never been like that before and like trying to process my emotions at the same time. And then like it also scaring me that like it's like it started to physically affect me. Yes. It does. It literally can do wild things to the body. It's so crazy. The like, vagus nerve goes from like here to here. You literally feel heartbreak.

Like you feel it in your chest. It can come through as anxiety. It come through as physical pain. It's wild when you can think about how attached that all is and what it does to your body. And that's so sad to me because you really were feeling heartbreak and pain and emotional stress. And it really does, it does a few things. What it does is absolutely make you hit rock bottom. chew you up and spit you out, but it also puts you on a whole other path that you would never be on to build yourself back up, to have confidence that you would have never had before that and get you back to a better version of you. Sadly, that happens. Like, sadly, that's what happens to happen sometimes. I'm tired of lessons, but like, I know. But it's like, at least, at least there's

something good out of it. Like, where I'm at right now, like, where I'm at right now, like, I'm so much happier and like I don't want to come on here and say like oh my god like I'm great like I'm perfect I did the work but like I am so much happier and that like trust in myself and like just like being okay with like solitude because I was like also the first time I've ever lived with a partner right I've been in a long term relationship before but like I like left my family I left like everyone I knew and that was the person I was with yeah 24 seven you know it's it's nice and I think it will be really nice for people to also hear that are listening to this, the light at the end of the tunnel.

Because when you are in that breakup, when you are in that loss, when you are in that place of feeling no hope, you're giving people hope that there's light at the end of the tunnel, even though you're not like, I'm back, baby, like, put me on Paradise, but you're... I got so many DMs that are like, we're going to see you in Paris? I'm like, are you being for real right now? But people think, people think literally that could be a way for you to like get back out there. because they'd probably dream to go on Paradise and meet hot dudes. But, I mean, there's got to be, I'm glad you're on the healing path that there's light at the end of the tunnel, that you do feel so much better. And are you in a place, when people say that to you, are you in a place where you're like,

can maybe not in paradise? What do you do now moving forward? Do you have non-negotiables? Do you have, like, certain boundaries of like, he can't be from Bachelor Nation. Oh, my gosh. I used to think it was the same thing. I'm actually over all that. I'm actually over a lot of non-negotiables, but that's because I think.

I think I've healed so much in my own way and I'm 38 where I go if that's a non-negotiable like and I love this person will work through it or I'm just like not interested like you know what I mean like it's kind of black and white for me no I agree I agree with that and I've always kind of joked like the people I have dated like because I was girl I was in therapy this summer like I'm still in therapy but I was like you should always be in therapy. I was like can you help me find my pattern like I don't want to do this again I'm like they all seem different like different people and you know, relationships and for different reasons. Totally.

I'm like, is there a pattern? Like, is there a type? And it's like so crazy that there really like isn't one. Yeah. Yeah. But I did, I actually did start thinking about like my non-negotiables and they're not things like, oh, like can't be from Bachelor nation. Yeah.

My therapist will like ask me questions like this and I'm like, I don't know. I'm like come back to you after I've thought about it. And I literally could not sleep the other night. And I was like, it just like came to me. And I immediately texted her. And I was like, hey, this is like, we need to talk about this. I first and foremost need someone accountable. Yes.

Trustworthy. Yes. Empathetic. Like for other people, for me, like. Like has the empathetic bone in their body. I want to feel like we're both human together. You know? I want to feel safe.

Yes. With someone. And, okay. It's so funny because I put like Makes Me Laugh. It's like serious, serious. Makes me laugh. Ha ha. But I agree. That's something on my list too. That's something on my list. I just I like I don't need someone perfect. Like I want someone that's like willing to put in the work. Yeah. Someone that's like emotionally intelligent and like can be self aware if there are issues. Because like me like you can call me out on anything. Like I want to know like what I need to work on. And like I'm not perfect by any means.

But like I am running to my therapist and being like, please help me fix my life. That's so great. know like I hope you realize how important the work is that you're doing and I hope you're so proud of yourself for like taking the right steps to healing because a lot of people can want to numb and I mean I do it too numbing scrolling numbing you know like having no actually I've been really good about not getting drunk me too I was like I'm not touching alcohol I don't want to know but but I was like I don't well it's like you know a glass of wine here and there but like I don't want to know like what version of myself this is going to access like I'm scared yes I'm terrified yes I'm

all about intentional drinking but that's so good like are you proud of yourself for how you're dealing with it because is this your first real real heartbreak I had I had a really long term relationship that was like seven years on and off yeah and so that was pretty serious but that was different because it's like we were like high school sweetheart right just like grew apart there were things that like happened in that relationship yeah like I didn't really appreciate but like at the end of the day we were just different people like different paths in life you know I still care about that person and like wish nothing but the best for him but like yeah I mean that was that was a heartbreak but it was nothing compared you know and I thought I you know

that was my high school sweetheart like I was with him for like seven years I thought like oh we're I'm going to be married with kids about 25 like right and then I was on the bachelor year later that's so i mean i like moving forward the same thing kind of that you said it's like i want somebody that's been through some shit you know like i want somebody who's learned life lessons i'll take someone who's divorced i want somebody that's like literally been through life and learn from it and like you said empathetic has like life experience can speak to certain things i just like and make me laugh i feel the same way i think that i think everything you said all the serious stuff but like we got to, we have to, like, giggle.

Oh my gosh. My sisters. Wait, when's your birthday? June 14th. Oh, I'm so close on June 19th. Oh, my gosh. Oh, that, this makes a lot of sense. Wait, you said something, you went on The Bachelor.

Can we talk about Clayton for a second? Yeah. Poor fucking guy. Oh, my God. He's going through some shit, too. Have you talked to him? What does this stuff keep happening to him? It's, honestly, I feel like it's like a ticky man.

But like, I'm just like, dang. Dang. The freaking guy just goes through it. I just, this whole paternity thing and now he's like, I'm not the father, but now there's some news coming up being like, well, that wasn't the final thing. And I'm just like, I wondered if you guys, because I have the friends, so many of my exes. But I just worry about Clayton. I don't know, sometimes. Are you watching the season of Paradise? I watched the first episode and then it started triggering me. Totally. So I like didn't. But I was the same way. I watched because I wanted to support Jojo. And I remember being like, this is so. so bad for my mental health. Like it really just, there's something, the music, the words that they use, this every situation format being the same each season. Like it all just like puts you right back in that place in your body. And I know people probably are like, that's so dramatic. It's not like you went to war. But I'm like, it's, it is PTSD. And of course it's not similar to somebody who went to war. But there's all different, you know, types of that for that feeling. So I don't

I'm excited for you because I see the work that you're doing on yourself and where you want to go from this. And I just feel like, like, what do you want next? What, like, are you like, it's one foot in front of the other. It's day by date. Or are you like, you know what? Actually, I'd really like to do this in a month. I'm like that person that I'm, I'm so indecisive. And then I just know, like, what I want to do. And so I don't have any, like, major life plans right now. I've just been, like, focusing on healing like during the summer yes honestly I feel like good enough to like open myself to the possibility of dating and all of that like it doesn't like scare me because for a second there I was like stay away stay away you're like you're like you're like people in like my city

that were like trying to like spin the block and I was like you're like no no we're circling back I'm not circling back to anything no like no like no but I'm just, I'm in a place where I am learning after like giving so much of myself to that relationship and honestly like losing myself and the ending of it. I'm just happy to feel like myself again. And it's like it's it takes a while to notice but like I feel like within like the past month like my friends are like you're really giggily today. Like you're really like you just seem happier. And it honestly like that is. the most like reassuring and helpful thing because you're like you're not thinking about it yeah and there's

part of you like when you're in the trenches you're like am i gonna feel like this forever and you know you're not but you know you're not but you're like yeah you're so in it you know you can't it's like when you're like this is a really stupid example but i'm only saying it because i got food poisoning the other night and like throwing up is one of my biggest fears in life like it's so pathetic i'm such a child in that moment i'm going i can't even imagine like what it would feel like am i going to be like this forever like I can't handle it and then once you feel better this is the metaphor once you feel better you're like you appreciate feeling better so much more because you're like I'm not there I'm here now I'm on the other side of it and I feel that for you you're on the other side of it where

there's still like more healing to go there's still so much to learn about yourself but there's nothing quite like feeling like a shell of yourself and building your own self back up and getting to a place where you go I can do this there's nothing like that feeling And then learning what boundaries you need to have to stay there. Yes, but you're doing that because you're doing therapy, right? You're doing therapy, you're doing all the right things. How old are you now? I'm 28.

Fuck yes. Best pivotal moment ever you're in like, oh my God, call me when you're 30. Call me, call me like tomorrow. Call me tonight. We'll definitely talk about this tonight, but I always, I'm a, I beat a dead horse on this podcast about turning 27 and how. after that like you learn so much about yourself you want to learn so much about yourself you have more self-compassion all these things like i had no idea at 27 how much more i was going to learn

yes you're learning but i'm grateful for it and it's also like i don't know why and i feel like it's a thing a lot of women do like i got into this headspace where i was like my life is over like course of course like what am i doing like where am i going to be in five years because five years ago 38. I'm like, but like, it's not. It's not over. Like, you can, you can be happy and you can like, like, I just, I realize like, what? I'm like losing track of like the words I was trying to say, like, as I'm saying. Welcome to my world. A ADHD. Story of my life. But, um, I saw something the other day that was like, it was profound to me. It was like the opposite of emotional dysregulation is self-expression.

not being at zero, not being neutral. And I started thinking about it and like when, like towards the end of that relationship and when I was like in the trenches like dealing with the aftermath, like I was like, what are my hobbies? Like what do I like to do? Like I mean, I didn't like what I was feeling and experiencing. Like I was so engulfed by everything I was going through that I lost myself. But like hearing like self expression, it's like, you know, I'm like going on.

walks now. I'm like, I like to be outside. I like to be outside. I love a nature bitch. Going back to the gym and it's like before I like couldn't even like force myself to get out of bed. And so just the opposite of like emotional dysregulation being self expression. Like that also made me feel good about like the what I've been going through and like, okay, this does. It sucks. But it makes sense. Like yes. It's starting to as much sense as it's it can make anyway. Right, because you'll probably never make full sense of it and... I've had to let that go. I mean, do you still have contact with him? Not anymore. Okay, good. We did have that apartment together. Right. And so like... They did to deal with that. Yeah, there was no choice. Good thing you don't share dogs. Oh my gosh, yes. Doing that right now. I said that and I'm like, yeah, good thing I don't share

something you're going through. I'm so sorry. It's honestly, it's not as, like, I thought it was going to be the most traumatic thing ever to share dogs, not because I was like, I'm going to have to see him but because I don't want to be in this house by myself without my dogs. Like they are my babies. I'm obsessed with them. But I actually find myself being like, oh, you know, that will make him happy too. Yeah. I would never want to take the dogs away from him. Somebody did that to me and that's awful. And it's, it's just like, you know, it's an adjustment. But I do want to, we were talking about making full circle backs. This is a good one. I want to talk about how the episode I was on for Clayton's season. And that's when I first met you. I was hosting this very vulnerable circle

about talking about our insecurities. And you shared that you were body shamed for being small growing up. And I remember looking at you in that moment and going, I'm so glad she said that, because body shaming is such a real thing of all sizes. And I was made fun of so much growing up for being too small. Guys used to tell me, oh, I'd be attracted to you if you weren't such a stick. like anything everything. I feel like that word is triggering. Oh, totally. They would call me a dog throwing stick, like a twig, a bone. Oh my gosh. All these things. And I...

Or like you're like not a woman. You're not like womanly. Did you do, do you still get it to this day on social media? Not so much. And if I do like I do not care. I've heard, you know, like that was your moment there. But now you've probably had so much life experience of harder things that you've had to go through. And I'm sure like freezing my eggs help my body dysmorphia so much because I was like, look at what my body can do and not what it looks like. People always comment on women's bodies. My girlfriend's very pregnant right now. And people will be like, whoa, are you having twins? And she's like, oh no. Like, no matter how you

comment on a body, it's just growing a human life. Yeah, not a big deal. Just literally growing life. Yeah, growing lungs in my stomach. Like, it's crazy. But I'm, I like hearing how much, you know, now what you're working on with yourself. It's like, what are. my patterns. What do I need to work on? What do I do next when I do want a relationship and I want to trust again? Like it's so cool to hear when people grow through certain things. Thank you. Yeah. It's crazy. It's so crazy that I met you on Clayton's season on that episode. I told you, I told you before. I liked it. People are like, this is traumatic for these girls. And I was like, this is free therapy. We don't have access to this all the time. I loved it. I was like, I'm so happy I get to be a part of this date because they don't

usually talk about that stuff on that show. And I find that they are doing that more and more now, but it's important. And I loved that you shared something like that. And I love that you can share today how you're feeling and where you're at. So many people love you and want, like, they're rooting for your happiness. And I think hearing from you today is going to just be so nice for everybody to see, not only are you okay, but you're going through all the right steps. And look at you. You look amazing. Thank you. And anyone who's going through a hard time at home, like there is light at the end of the tunnel. You will get through it. It does get better. And it does get better even when you think there's no freaking way. You're like, this is the worst thing that like, yeah,

don't worry. Even dealing with death, something convinced myself, this is the worst thing that could have happened to me. Yeah. And it's like, and you know what's scary? You can get through it. What's scary? And I'll leave with two thoughts. It's scary because you're like, I could go through this again. To be able to trust someone and fall in love again, I am willing to risk that to lose again to lose somebody in my life like after losing my best friend in a car accident i've been so scared to get close to friends and like 10 years later i'm finding myself being able to even though it's been more than 10 years but in 10 years but it's like your best days haven't happened your worst days have and there might be a couple more but your best days still haven't happened and there's

going to be so many beautiful things that come in life and the only way you get to those places are through good old rock bottom. Yeah, yeah. There are so many thoughts I'm like literally having right now. Tell me. So you said like freezing your eggs helps with. I'm thinking about freezing my eggs. Do it.

Like I'm going through the process of like the information and like I actually. Go to the OVA Clinic in Chicago. Really? Talk to Whitney. Yeah, they honestly, they empowered the hell out of me and made it so enjoyable. I just like started thinking about like I. don't want to feel so pressed yes to find someone you don't like I want a family so bad but like I don't I don't want that to like cloud yeah you know my judgment or like pressure and I also don't want

children like this very moment right there you know but I still I know that I want them in the future and I think it's so cool that it doesn't have to be like something that you're doing just because you're scared like it can be empowering yes oh my gosh If anyone can afford it, I know it's very expensive. Some jobs offer it. Some insurance covers it. There's payment plans. Part of me wants to start like some sort of donation.

I don't know. I want women to do this for themselves so badly because it's the best thing I ever did for myself. And the only regret I have is not doing it in my 20s. Do it. It's the best thing you will ever do. And it is. It's empowering. You smash the biological clock.

You don't feel the pressure. You live for yourself. and that way you find the right relationship for you. That's, that's, I'm excited to, like, not have, like, that fear. Like, it's not something like at the front of my mind when I'm meeting someone and starting something new with someone, but it's, like, always quick there. Like, when you're a woman that, like, wants a family, like, that's always in the back of your mind, you know, but.

I mean, I'm 38 and I'm still not worried about not having kids. If it's meant to be, it's going to be. And I've got the eggs on ice, baby. I love that. Yeah. It's everything. I mean, I feel like you believe this, but I do think that everything happens for a reason. I know you were going to say that.

I am like cliche. That's like my life model. I like everything happens for a reason, myself to death. And sometimes I get on my own nerves about it. But like it's so true. I believe it. And that's even like this breakup for me compared to all my other breakups, I'm like so in a different place because I believe that he was in my life. life for a reason, a season, and I, it's just everything teaches me something. And I'm again feeling

empowered. Like, no, I don't have to be married and have kids because on paper, everyone's like, he was perfect. You let a perfect one go. We weren't compatible at the end of the day. And I am going to be okay. And he is going to be okay. And it's going to be okay. Like the amount of people that are invested in other people's relationships without knowing half of it is just bizarre to me. But I just, I know you're on the right path to healing and I'm really proud of you. And like hearing you say that too is huge. Like I, I feel like it's so reassuring that it's like at the end of the day. Like even if I can't make perfect sense of this, like I learned about like my capacity to love. But I also in the healing journey learned that my capacity to love myself. Yeah. Oh, that just gave me full body chills.

But like the resilience, like you can, you can still be you. And like, when you're in the trenches and you really just don't think there's like any way out of it. Yeah. You know, there is. Yeah. It just, it takes time and you have to be so patient with yourself. If you have to give yourself grace, you have to cry. Yeah. Cry. Oh my gosh. Oh, yes. It sucks so bad. Yeah. I went like a month without eyelash extensions because I was like, there's no point. They're just. I went a month without makeup. I know that sounds so, that sounds so stupid. No, I know. Yeah, it's just a real thought. But it's like, I was like, oh my goodness. Like there's no like, like I don't know how this is going to turn out. Like even just my happiness and like if I'm going to be able to trust myself again. So just it's just so reassuring. I can trust myself now and I feel really good about making sure that I don't lose myself the next time. Yeah.

And that's not good for really. relationship either. No. There was the biggest life lesson that I ever learned when I was 27. I totally lost myself. I was 97 pounds. Shell of myself. My friends were like, who are you? I was nothing like the person I was supposed to be or who I was. It was so sad looking back. But again, I really feel like you only allow yourself to do that once. And you can get close again, but you can see all the signs and go, nope, we're not doing this again. And you know, now. and you have the tools to get out of it faster. And I think that is a win.

And I think to like just knowing at the end of the day, like some things are just not meant to be. Right. Like they were meant to like teach you a lesson or come into your life. But like sometimes you're just not compatible with someone. Think a lesson he's learning. And you can be like you can totally be compatible on paper. And that's something like I struggled with really hard.

I was like, oh my gosh, we had like all these things in common. Like, I did my research. Like, I promise I just didn't, like, blindly, like, fall in love with someone. Like, there were lots of good things about that relationship and lots of things that, like, I learned that were not the result of something painful. On paper, I think that's what we all have to remember. When something seems good on paper, that doesn't mean it feels good in here. It can, it can for a minute.

But on paper, you're checking all the boxes. But that does not mean you stay. Yeah. It does not mean you excuse behaviors. It does not mean you're compatible just if it's a checkbox on paper. I really struggled with that too where I was like, but on paper, but you got to choose you and you have to know your worth and you have to truly push forward to be able to see, like, removing yourself and doing the hard thing gives you that benefit of the hindsight of what

you left behind. And every time, if you have that feeling that you need to go or that. it's not right or that you need to get out. I promise if you remove yourself from it, you'll have so much clarity. Either like, oops, let that go. Shit, that's bad. Or you'll be like, oh my God, why didn't I do that sooner? Yeah. Yeah. And I think that there's a lot to be said about like, okay, like I was really like in this and like committed to this. And like I thought that this was like the rest of my life with someone that ended up not being for me. Like that's the one thing that keeps me going is like how great is it going to be with the person that actually is meant for me. Totally. Oh, God, you'll be like,

yes, this is it. Right. You'll know. You'll know. Did anyone tell you that on this podcast, we confess? Yes. I have a weird record here where I don't lose. So whoever makes this guy snap, you've got to tell me your confession. Okay. And if I make it snap, I'll tell you a confession. I'll probably tell you anyway just because I'm going to make you tell you. I'm going to edit it. I'm going to edit it so that you lose and you tell me a confession. Okay, hit a tooth, any tooth. Push it down. Why didn't, what, my relax, my, my reaction was so late. Hey, I think you scared me more than it did. It scares me every time I didn't. And you knew

it was going to happen. But I didn't know it's going to happen the first one. My heart is being so fast. So is mine. Jeez, Louise, I've Well, wow. Literally it snapped on me and then I was like, Ah! Zana in the highest. I literally thought it was going to take a few goes there. My heart is kidding.

Yes, sorry about that. You know what? You have to tell your confession now. It was like the alligator was like, man, do you confess? This is just something really embarrassing, right? Right. Yeah. Okay.

Something you're like, I can't believe I'm telling this on Off the Vine podcast. I haven't told anybody this and it's not like super like scandalous or anything, but it's just kind of funny because it's something that would happen. Like when you're like, oh, things like, like that happened to me like things like that happen to me yeah so literally on night one of the bachelor yes i like stepped off the riser to like go accept my rose and i was wearing a super low back dress and my mic pack slipped and like the string was like in between my butt cheeks oh god and i was like walking like could you tell on tea i could tell no no one could tell because it was like from the back

but like literally like Rachel saw it happen and she was right next to me and we were so like you want to laugh so bad. Oh my god and those those rose ceremonies are so dramatic and serious. No and that one was like so long and I literally walked and it like swung and it was like hitting my legs. It was like going to the front of my dress like swinging and he's like looking at me like serene and I'm just like thinking about this like Mike and just like squeezing my butt cheeks like what if it falls like what if I trip on it like what if it comes? unhooked. I had like a full on like the mic pack is a thing thought process and that thing was secured like I don't know what I did but then I go up and we're like not saying anything to each other and

Rachel just looks at me like I'm going to do you solid she sticks her whole arm down the back of my dress and grabs it and Polly you know Polly he was like what are you guys doing and everyone kind of looks at us we're just like trying not got her hand down your dress she's like never told anyone about that either but like we got we got close very quickly yeah no kidding you just got her hand in my butt crack those mic packs are such a liability for so many reasons one i dropped mine in the toilet once after a number two and they're expensive i hope they just i hope they just no no i'm pretty sure they just cleaned it off and of course of course no because those are expensive or it broke and they did get me a new one but who knows you had poopoo mic all season poopoo mic all season with my big old

initials on it. Like, do not screw this up. So I honestly, then, well, once you, like, you know, you do Bachelor, Badstor, Paradise and hosting and then dancing with the stars, I'm like, anytime anyone mics me, I'm like, honestly, no shame. Like, touch my boobs, go down my butt crack, put the mic wherever it needs to go. Exactly. You're like, just fix me up, please. I had, like, Mike PTSD after that. I was like, every time, because I was night one, like, you have, like, weird. Oh, yeah, night one. You have, like, weird anxiety. Like, you get embarrassed about things you wouldn't get embarrassed about. Like, would I be embarrassed about that in real life? Like, no, I'd probably laugh. But, like, I'm in front of this man that I've, like, never met before. On national television.

And I'm like, that is so embarrassing. I mean, could have been worse. And then you've got Rachel sticking her entire, like, she's a little woman. Her whole arm is down the back of my dress. Like, I was just, I was mortified. He didn't see that part. He was gone. I'm going to go back and look it up and see if I can tell you our waddling. I was going to tell a confession that's way dirtier than that. I've never shared this before and I cannot wait for this. Thank you for sharing something of your own too. Well, I usually don't have much but I thought of this and I'm like, you know what? I've never told the story and it is so gross and embarrassing and risky and slutty and really bad. I was 24 and I had finished work and I was having a drink and the bartenders

were asking me about this guy I was seeing and I was like, I'm actually supposed to have like a sexy Skype with him tonight and I'm like I'm so nervous I'm having a drink and like I got to go home and like be sexy and they're like come back after and like tell us about it and I was like okay this is so bad so my girlfriend Bree had just bought me a dildo because she was like you don't have a dildo and I was like no and I was like I can't even imagine just like 24 years all being like so she got me one and the guy I was dating we were on Skype and he was like I might actually edit this out after five okay I'm done get me out of here. So many get this mic away from me. That's so funny. Thank you so much for coming

on the podcast today. You've obviously made me comfortable. But thank you for sharing. And is there anything else that you like wanted to say that you were just like, this is how I'm feeling? Or do you feel like we talked about it all? I want to say thank you so much for having me. Of course. Like you made me feel so comfortable and like obviously I was nervous because I haven't talked about this with anyone. But like you just, you made me feel so comfortable and like you're so relatable and I really appreciate it. That's so nice because that's like, I know a lot of people do things for clickbait and for downloads and I always try and pride myself on not like I don't, I can't put myself in those positions. I always want somebody

to walk out of here and go, I feel better. I, well, and I love that about you. And I feel like this, this was just like such a necessary step for me like putting all this behind me. Like I've like done the healing like with myself, but like I do live a life in the public. And And sadly, it is a responsibility sometimes to share. But it's closure for you too. It is closure. Like, you have to create your own closure sometimes. And also I want to say, like, I am not in a place where I, like, have any ill will or, like, anger.

Like, I've realized, like, you just, like, have to, like, to fully, like, move on. You have to let things go. Such a hard thing. And I'm not, I'm, like, not sitting here trying to preach and be, like, I'm fine. And I, you know. Yeah. But I am doing so. so so much better and I feel so much happier and I think just thinking about like everything that I went

through like there was like beautiful love in there and you know there's a person that like I really cared about and like I wish him nothing but the best like you are so gracious he's he's not he's not in my life anymore and you know like I do care about him and like I genuinely like want him to end up happy and all of that and I mean I truly mean that so like I don't I don't want it to seem like I just like hate his guts or something. You're an angel. I think that's so important to say too because sometimes

I want to express my feelings and say my side of things, but I don't ever want to promote somebody going and bullying the other person. Let's ask everybody like this doesn't mean it's a ghost shit on him party. Yeah, I don't want any like harm. This is literally for you. Yeah.

I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now ending. And if I'm being honest, I wouldn't mind a rating and review. Two sisters, one, a respected TV producer, Jill Blackstone, and the other, Wendy. She was disabled, nearly blind and deaf, and Jill had devoted herself to taking care of Wendy. Jill was her best friend, her sister, her, everything. But the sister bond was shattered when Wendy and some of the sister's rescue dogs were found dead in a garage next to a toppled-over barbecue grill. Jill says accidental carbon monoxide poisoning killed everyone.

Police do not believe her. Police arrested Jill Blackstone for the murder of her sister. Investigators think it was staged to look like an accident. Who will you believe, especially now, that a secret source has come forward with evidence never made public before? Jill was a good producer. There's no doubt about that, but would she produce murder is the question. Season two of Bad Bad Thing, the Blackstone Sisters, available now, wherever you get your podcasts. I always say, show me a perfect family. I'll show you a family with secrets.

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