Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Grape Therapy: Processing Emotions in Tough Times with Gayane Aramyan

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

Putting the therapy in ‘Grape Therapy’ today… Gayane Aramyan, LMFT, who specializes in supporting women through significant life transitions and challenges is here to explain what emotional flooding is and walk us all through how to navigate tough situations such as a heated argument, comparing yourself to others on social media, or running into an ex-partner. So, let’s learn how to better regulate our emotions, enjoy healthier relationships, and live our best lives – together! Visit therapywithgayane.com for more Gayane.  Thank you to our sponsors! Check out these deals for the Vinos: WELLA ULTIMATE HAIR REPAIR – Get 10% off your order when you use code 10VINE at www.wella.com . LOFT – $25 off your full price purchase with code OFFTHEVINE .  Offer valid 11/9/23 through 1/1/2024 at 2:59am ET only at LOFT.com when you enter code OFFTHEVINE at checkout. Valid on in-stock full price merchandise, excluding sneak preview, third-party merchandise, and cashmere. Total full price purchase must exceed $25 before taxes and shipping & handling are applied. Offer not combinable with total store promotions, free shipping on qualifying orders of $99+ or other discounts unless otherwise stated. In the event of a return, discount will be deducted from refund and may not be re-used. Not redeemable for cash. May not be applied towards payments on outstanding credit balances, purchases of gift cards or e-gift cards, or, except as stated in our Return Policy, adjustments to prior purchases, returns, or exchanges. CLARINS – Use code VINE23 at checkout for 10% off and a free 7-piece gift of skincare products. ANGI – Your home for everything home.  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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and a free seven-piece gift of skin care products. And Angie, your home for everything home. I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now starting. All right, you guys, I think my favorite guest to have on is a therapist. Every time I walk out of it being like, ah. So today I have Guyana on. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist, an advocate for women's well-being, which we love. She is here to provide more tools for the old toolbox on how to process emotions. God, I need her.

I just want her in my back pocket. I could use that. We work through some big emotions and how to navigate situations that can be triggering for all of us. So enjoy this episode. Thank you for being here today. First of all, I've never met you. Nice to meet you. For all of my listeners, could you tell us who you are and how you got into therapy?

Sure. My name is Guyana Aramian, and I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. I specialize in women's well-being as well as couples therapy. Since I became a mom three years ago, I started being really passionate about helping moms, and so that's kind of been my focus, but always geared towards helping women break generational cycles, helping couples communicate better. And so I've always been very passionate about relationships. My husband and I have been together since we were 16.

Cute. Cute, but also so hard, not easy. We had a little break in between. But since a young age, I knew I wanted to learn more about relationships because it took a lot to be in one when I was so young. And so I kind of got started in the field when I was 18, which was about 13 years ago. Wow.

Yeah. And I just went to my high school. counselor and I was like I want to do something in therapy and she was like well you can't really sit in on sessions with the therapist but let me see what I can find and so she found someone she knew and I became like an assistant at 18 and I kind of grew with that woman with the therapist and she was my mentor for 10 years went to graduate school did my hours with her and then now I'm on my own and I have my private practice in Sherman Oaks that's amazing because to know what you want to do at 18 is already crazy, but to know you want to actually, like, get into therapy

and understand relationships. And, like, you know, I was at 18, I was like, oh, boys are hot. Like, that's all I was thinking. I didn't understand how complex or complicated or difficult relationships could be. And where do you think the passion came from specifically for women's well-being? I don't know. Well, let me tell you. Like, because I am a woman. No, actually, part of my training and when I worked for the therapist before I got my degree, I became a certified ingramed management coach facilitator. And for that, you don't really need a degree. You just need training.

Okay. And so she trained me and I started running groups as like a 19, 20, 21-year-old. Yeah. Which was really intimidating because it was court-ordered men typically, not to generalize, but that's what the groups were. And it was super intimidating, but it really taught me so much. And it taught me about how unaware men are about feelings, how they have such a difference. how they have such a difficult time about talking about their feelings

and then it was interesting because then when I started being in practice I was gravitating towards couples and then kind of bringing in that voice from the male side and letting the woman know of what was going on on the other side and then I became passionate about the woman's side

so I just, I don't know I think it all played a role and then becoming a mom I just realized so much of motherhood and not to make it about motherhood But so much about it is our own inner child's coming up in our relationships and how we parent. And so I think that's been my biggest passion now is just changing that generational cycle. Like we were told not to cry or to toughen up.

And now I turn to my son and I say, it's okay to cry. You can feel what you're feeling. And just those moments are so big for me and I just want to radiate that to everybody. Yeah, that's beautiful because I was going to ask you, do you think men are just wired differently? or is it because of what we've taught them, you know, our generations? Maybe both, but I do think the messaging that not just men, I mean, women received those messages too, you know, our parents did the best they could. Yes.

With the information that they had at the time. Nobody talked about feelings. Nobody talked about therapy. And so I think they did the best they could. Yeah. And even my own parents, you know, I remember I was in graduate school and I was having an argument with my dad. And I was crying and he said, you're a therapist.

you shouldn't be crying. I was like, that doesn't add up. I was like, I'm not a robot. I'm still human. It's so interesting because I've obviously been very focused on, you know, what society has taught us about, you know, emotions or where we should be at in life or what we should do at the age of this because I'm 38, single again. And I just get a lot of heat for it.

It's so interesting. And in my brain, I know logically that this is because their generation or what they're parents, like their generation has taught them. And it's just so interesting because I see and I understand what people want for me, but I want to show them what I want for me. And it like doesn't align with their beliefs. And I feel like that's so much with even just, you know, what we've been taught. Like they have their own agenda for you. Yes. And you want to live your own life. Yes. And it's so interesting because, you know, you say even your family, like feelings weren't talked about as much. My family was so open with feelings and we were very much allowed. Yes.

Yes, and I know that. Like, we were very much allowed to feel feelings, and we were always encouraged to, like, go down our own path and not do what everybody, like, else is doing. Like, that was encouraged. So my whole life I've lived like that, but now having a platform, it's like, what? And I didn't realize.

Because so many people didn't have that. And I didn't realize how crazy that was to some people to just, like, feel your feelings, cry on social media, be happy on social media, share the good, bad, and the ugly. and feel okay with it, but now I'm starting to feel shame for it. But you know why people react is because they have their own insecurity about feeling those things. Right.

Or they have their own triggers that come up. Okay. Then let's talk about my reactions. Yeah. When I know that, like you say that and I go, I know, why does it still upset me so much? Is it because I also am not a robot? Yeah. Okay.

You're human. Because you're human. Yeah. Right. And we seek for society to accept us. And, you know, back in our parents' days or their parents' days, it was maybe people around you. Maybe it was in the other neighborhood. But like now, with our phones, we're exposed to so many people at once.

And so we're not just comparing ourselves to our neighbor. We're comparing ourselves to everybody in the world. And I think already impacts our mind in a very different way. So you can be confident about your feelings. But the second someone judges that, it's so normal to say, wait, am I allowed to? And then as a woman. I think that's a big thing of like feeling things and not being sorry for them. Yeah, and not feeling crazy for them.

Yeah, this whole like women are emotional. It's like, you know, I think we are in touch with our feelings, but we were probably never given the tools to know what to do with them. Right. So I was going to ask you, like even though you had that freedom of feeling things, did you really know what to do? Because I... No?

Yeah. I probably didn't know what to do with those feelings. Yeah. Because I get that too, like when I see clients in therapy. Yeah. They'll have, you know, homes that they grew up in that they were loving and everybody talked about feelings, but parents still did not have the tools to say, okay, when you feel emotionally flooded, let's take a few deep breaths, here's what you can do, you can journal, you can talk. Like, they just didn't have that knowledge. That's so true.

So maybe you were given the space to feel things, which is awesome. Yeah. But you probably didn't know what to do with the feelings. That is so true. I still don't know what to do with the feelings. I mean, I'm learning and I'm trying, but let's talk about emotional flooding because I heard you use that term, and it was a new term to me. So can you kind of explain exactly what emotional flooding is?

Yeah, emotional flooding is whenever you are feeling something, but it's uncontrollable. So you might be angry, but when you're emotionally flooded, it turns into rage. Yeah, if you're anxious, it might turn into like an anxiety attack or panic attack. So it's like an uncontrollable amount of emotions that are just literally, like, like flooding through. Typically that happens when something isn't processed. Right. So if you haven't processed the feeling, an emotion, let's say you've been anxious about something and you've been just brushing it under the rug, eventually that's going to build up and it's going to come out in a way of anxiety attack. I always try and, you know, get to the root of what I'm actually feeling

and there's so many times where like I used to, I'm really proud of myself actually because let's say eight years ago, I remember being like just turned 30. I remember having like tantrums in relationship like actual childlike tantrums and I remember being like it's stronger than me but I over the years I've done so much work that I realize I'm like wait I haven't done that I don't remember the last time I ever had a tantrum like that like in a relationship sure I still get angry or raise my voice or like because we're human have panic and yeah because we are human not robots but I don't throw the child like tantrums anymore and I'm like yay me yeah maybe you're not a two year old anymore That's progress for sure. And I think with anger itself, that's not a problem to feel anger.

You know, in couples therapy, I'll have couples come back and they'll say, well, we didn't fight this week. And I'm like, okay, that's not the point. Right. The point is fights are going to happen. Yeah. But we need to make sure there's repair. We need to make sure, like, you're communicating in a way that's respectful and kind. So there are so many steps to it. Just feeling anger is not an issue. That's just basic human normal. emotional emotion. And I think that's a big one we were taught to not feel. Yes. Anger. Yeah. I feel angry a lot and I've talked about this previously on my podcast. Maybe for a woman, right? Yeah. Sometimes when I'm feeling insecure or sad or threatened, I get angry. That's exactly. I'll explain. Okay, please. So anger is, there's different

schools of thought on this. But what I really believe in and what I saw when I worked with the anger management clients is that anger is a secondary surface level feeling. So we're usually feeling, something at the core underneath that and it's sadness maybe it's fear but interestingly enough because it's our it's almost like a protective shield and it's much easier to show than to show the vulnerability that's inside so it's much easier to say i hate you i'm so pissed off at you than to say i've been feeling really lonely yeah why is that is that because we associate shame with feeling lonely or because it's too vulnerable anger is a protective it's a shield It's like this primal feeling of

I got to fight because there's danger, right? It's like the way the brain was designed. But there's no more like danger like that. Okay. Grab a coffee and discover nonstop action with BudMGM casino. Check out our hottest exclusive. Friends of One with Multi-Drop. Wanted even more options?

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But MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. So when you aren't able to process your emotions, how does that affect the people around you? I would assume you're more on edge. I would assume you're so guarded that people can't really understand where you're coming from. Maybe you shut down a lot. maybe you isolate a lot. I think it can look different for everybody. So I know we use the term tools in a toolbox of like, you know,

you learn those tools through therapy and through experience. So it's nice to kind of have that filled. So you're not affecting the people around you and you're able to. But it's hard to sometimes when they don't have their own and they haven't done their own work. But let's get into talking about the tools because you've got them. Your box is full, baby. What do you got? Yeah.

what you said about other people, we can't control other people. So even if someone is coming into me because they're going through something in their relationship, and maybe they say, you know, my partner doesn't want to come to couples therapy, but I want to work on myself. Sometimes just working on yourself can kind of motivate the other person to see changes. Especially if you're not nagging them to go. You're just showing it through who you are. And then what can also happen is when you do your own work, you show up differently to the relationship.

maybe at some point you even reevaluate if that's a relationship you want to be a part of. But I think it's so important to just focus on you, do your own work, focus on your own triggers, on how you handle situations. And if you do all that work and your partner is still doing the things they're doing and you're still hurt consistently, I think it's time to reevaluate that. Yeah. So tell me where do you want to, which kind of tool should we start with? Like journaling, I think, is probably a good one.

So processing feelings? Yes. So processing feelings. Sometimes I think people are too scared to process feelings because you know when you write and sometimes you're like, well, I didn't even know I had this in me and you just keep going and keep going that sometimes can be scary to look back on it and go, I've got a lot of things going on and it's too deep for some people. So I would recommend if there are things that are traumatizing from the past, there's trauma.

There are things that you haven't really got into that I would definitely recommend starting with therapy first and then going into journaling then. If you feel safe to journal, the way I would recommend to journal isn't just to write about how upset you are. So let's say something triggering happened. Yeah. What happens typically in the brain is, let's say you're with your partner, an argument happens. The brain goes into protective mode and the emotional part of the brain turns on and logic turns off. So we may say things we don't mean, we might do things we don't mean because the logic is just not operating.

So again, the brain is designed that. way to protect us from danger. That's how we survived back in the days. We don't need to do that right now, especially with our loved ones. So to rewire that brain, it takes so much practice. It doesn't just happen overnight. And it's really about pausing when you're triggered and to have some time to yourself if possible to process what just happened. So let's say something triggered happens and you beforehand make this plan with your partner and say, look, when we get into an argument. I might get really triggered. I'm going to need 15 minutes, maybe it's an hour. You decide that beforehand. So you're not just like, okay, I'm triggered. I'm out of here because that can send

other partner into panic. So you walk away and then you take time to, let's say, journal. And you don't write about how pissed off you are, but you ask questions from curiosity. What upset me? What about this is triggering for me? Have I felt this way before? My guess is from a therapist perspective this isn't something that just came out of nowhere right it's maybe an unresolved event from the past maybe a past relationship maybe a childhood stuff coming up so you have a moment to process and then you ask yourself what do I want from this person is it validation is it a solution and then another important question is what do I feel because the first thing you'll think of is I'm angry yeah okay what's underneath anger right maybe it's fear fear that I may lose him yeah and that's

more powerful than whatever else was going to come out of your mouth. So then you've activated the logical part of the brain and you might come back, maybe if you were at a level 10, maybe you'll be at like a seven or six. And the more time passes also, the more chemicals are being released. And so when they say don't go to bed angry, I say go to bed angry. Yeah, I always say go to bed angry. Yes. Because I'm usually over it in the morning.

That's what I say. Yeah. And that's because literally your brain is releasing these chemicals. And naturally, you might, obviously it's not going to go away. on its own but you're just at a different place than you were yeah the night before the pause is so important and that's what i i'm really working on because like i said about the temper tantrums like sometimes i feel like things are just stronger than me and so i've been really working on that do you believe it's like a muscle almost you have to build to like hold capacity yeah it's rewiring the brain

yeah like you're literally in therapy i feel like we're doing like a surgery of like rewiring the brain to operate differently people like me i'm impatient and that's takes practice and a lot of time, but the reward is so worth it because it literally will change your life for you. Yes. And there is no perfection. Like I don't operate that way at all times. Yeah. You know, if my cup is empty, I'm not going to be like, I need to take a pause. Right. I'm a human. Yeah. And in my own emotional relationship, that's not going to be as easy for me as it is for me to sit here and talk about it. Right. So I just want to set the standard of like there is no end goal of you're just forever going to change the way you react to things. Right. But you can get to a better place with enough practice,

that's for sure. And sometimes it's like, how do you identify your triggers and root causes of emotions? Because, like, we're talking about how it's masked by other emotions. How can you really dig in and identify the root of what's triggering you? I mean, I'm going to be biased and say therapy with help. Therapy will help you to really uncover those triggers. You know, in therapy, we ask questions that you might not think of, that a friend might not think of. But if you want to try, you can definitely do that on your own and to just sit with the feeling. Sit with it. Maybe it's through journaling.

Maybe it's through asking these questions of what am I feeling? And sometimes I'll have literally a list of emotions for clients and they'll have to sit and select the because it's so unnatural to us. We're so unaware of like I'll have clients that say I had no idea. This is how I felt. We don't have the language. Yeah. Sometimes I feel like I know what's going on in my head at my heart, but I like don't

know how to say it or I don't have a tool to I don't know kind of understand where it's coming from and it's so overwhelming to me I guess that's the emotional flooding like it feels like and then I just cry because I'm like this is too much my brain is telling me one thing my heart is telling me another there's a lot of noise in the outside world and I don't know how to get my feelings out sometimes like I'll go to therapy and she'll say one thing and I unlock something in my brain that goes oh yeah that's that's what I was trying to say yeah it's even you know sometimes people think like well i'm a 40 year old woman like i i know who i am but you don't oh no i i mean i've had when i did the anchor management clients i mean i had people in their 70s

come because they had to and have this like life-changing moment of being like i had no idea i felt this way all these years so again it's because we weren't given this kind of knowledge about feelings and how important vulnerability is in relationships to feel closer to each other um like it's so much more powerful to say you know i'm actually feeling so overwhelmed i'm actually feeling so lonely and i need you but that's not usually what's said i'm i'm speaking from personal experience to me i feel when i'm vulnerable and saying i need you right now it makes me feel so weak where anger makes me feel strong and powerful but really on the receiving end of it in a relationship, they probably would, you know, respond so much better to the first one than the

second one. Yes. And it's like, I know right from wrong, but it's stronger than me. So how do you control that? How do you actually go? Kay, Kay, Caitlin, get vulnerable. You know where this is actually coming from. You know if you just say this, it's going to make it all better. But I'm like, now. Because vulnerability is scary. Why? Because if it works, if it works and it makes situations better. Because there's potential for rejection. Whereas anger is this shield right that says i'm not going to let you hurt me and i'm going to say these things to hurt you so it doesn't get to me but when you're vulnerable there's a great risk which again because we can't control the other person you don't know how they might react to vulnerability

maybe they don't have space for it but i think when you do your own work you know that when people react the way they do that's because of their own stuff if someone can't handle you saying i need you then they're struggling with their own stuff. Yeah, it's hard to not take it personally. I'll never forget in a relationship. I'm, of course, very stubborn, and I was never the one to apologize first, and this one fight happened,

and I was like, Caitlin, just put on your guys' song, go sit beside him on the couch, and hug them and say her sorry, and it took everything. I was, like, hyping myself up for it, being like, come on, Caitlin, come on, like, and I did it.

and I was rejected. And that was truly one of the worst feelings in the world because I did, and he was like, and he was like, don't. And I was like, what? So then in my brain it went, oh, never again. Okay, never again, because it didn't work. Exactly. Exactly.

But what's the alternative? I still don't apologize. I was kidding. But what's the alternative? Then we have this shield and this anger, and then we protect ourselves sure from unpleasant emotions, but then it also creates disconnect. and that's the opposite of what human beings want.

All we want is to be connected. All we want is to have this like connection to someone and feel safe with them. And so yes, it's a risk, but I say it's a great risk. Yeah. And even even if it doesn't work out the way you want it to, that's again on that's their. Yeah. You know, it is. That's their own shit.

It is. It really is. The moment you realize people react the way they do is because of their own stuff, there's so much freedom. Yes. And the way you feel and the way you take things. Of course, you'll still take things personally as humans. That's what we do.

But then again, if you sit down and really think about it and give yourself the pause to process. So when you were saying about when you get emotionally flooded and then you might end up crying, what I would say before trying journaling and asking these like prompts and questions, I would use what I call kind of like a Band-Aid tool, which is grounding technique, which is, you know, breathing and just really like getting grounded because that again gets you from level 10 to maybe a seven or six and quickly yeah yes but it's a band-aid because you don't get to the root cause right it just helps in the moment yes it just helps you kind of get grounded and then maybe you have the ability to even turn that logical part of the brain on and get curious my therapist laughs at me all the time

because I come in so hot guns blaze and I'm like and at this and she goes Here we go, just breathe. She was like, just like take one second to just sit back and notice how you're feeling and take a breath. And I do. I go from a 10 to like a 6 immediately, which then gives me this space to actually say how I'm feeling. I'm like, yeah, breathing. You would think that just comes naturally to people.

No, I mean, my three-year-old, like something upsets him. He's immediately like tantruming, right? And so I'm trying to teach him like, let's take a deep breath. And he's like, no. Yeah, no. You're like, okay, you're not a robot either, but you also are three. Yeah. But I brought that up because it's like, and the tantrum started so much earlier than three.

It's like that's what's built in in us. That's how the brain operates. It's just that doesn't serve as a purpose when we're in a relationship or we're trying to build connections. It doesn't help. Right. I'm feeling really hopeful for whatever relationship I get into next because, Obviously, each relationship has taught me so many lessons. And in the last relationship, what I think we both really learned from it was don't let the rips

build up without repairing them. Otherwise, it's too far gone. I think we had really healthy communication at the beginning. I think we were both really good about quality time and communicating. And then once, you know, in all relationships, it happens where these little rips start happening and little resentments build. And instead of just in that moment tackling it, starting therapy, understanding, using those communications, we both would distract ourselves with work or do this.

And then we let those rips get too big to be repaired. And I really am like going into the next one, like, okay, Kailen, fix the rip in the moment, take the pause. Like I feel like I've learned so many things from each relationship where I'm like, one of these is going to work. Yeah, but you also can't be the only one doing that kind of work. No, and oh, and that's another thing. I'm going to have a resume. People are going to have a resume. And if you didn't go to Hoffman.

not for me okay if you haven't done a week of inner child work if you haven't had some sort of like traumatic i would love somebody who's divorced yeah you know just give me someone who's done some work through life yeah yeah someone who's lived life and gone through it and like you know knows what it takes yeah to have a healthy relationship and again healthy including arguments yeah but healthy arguments yeah arguments itself is not an issue yeah yeah Everybody has arguments, but it's the damage that's done after the argument. It's the repair that typically doesn't even happen. And I think that, yes, if you don't talk about it, if you don't repair in the moment,

it only builds, it only gets worse, and there's resentment and so much. After the heat has gone down and your adult self is online now, you can have that conversation to be like, what did you need from me in that moment? What was this really about? like you can you know get to that place after some time and letting your nervous system calm down again and in a relationship the inner child comes out in arguments and the things we need when you think about like what do I need in a relationship it's typically ingrained somewhere like something happened in childhood where you learn like these are the things I need now in adult relationships

it's the things you seek for and with the feeling question like what do you feel the other question that many people struggle answering is what do you need? What do you need from your partner? It's such a big question that it takes so long for people to answer. They might even think about it for weeks. Sometimes it takes months to get to that answer. So I think that's another question that I think is very important to like do your own work because if you don't know what you need, how is your partner supposed to figure it out?

Yeah, they can't. It's impossible. My husband and I have been together since 16. We don't read each other's minds. Yeah. I know. We know each other. We've been 10 different versions of ourselves since we were 16, but we cannot read each other's mind. So I'm very big on saying like, what is it that you need right now? What do you need for me? I don't know. Maybe he needs advice. Maybe he just needs me to like nod and listen and just be there for him. Yeah. And so I would say that's a big thing that couple struggle with is not knowing each other's needs and then expecting each other to know it. Yeah, that's a really big takeaway, I think. Okay, Angie is your home for everything home and they've made it easier than everything. to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well now if you own a home you know how much work it can take it's it's a lot i always say it's an ongoing project and whether it's

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Angie that. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's A-N-G-I-com. So I want to know if there's strategies for planning ahead, like anticipating an argument or how you're going to react to something for moments when intense emotions arise. Like, is there anything to do to prepare for it? Like, like I did in that one time. I was like, come on, Caitlin, you can do this. Like, is there something that, because we talk about after journaling or, you know, going to therapy and talking about these things, but what can we do to prepare for them?

Yeah, I would say with your partner, have a conversation about when they, get heated, what's our plan? Because usually there's one person who withdraws, one person who pursues. And so, especially for the person who withdraws, they need to set up a plan of when they're coming back because the person who pursues gets anxiety and needs to know when that person is coming back. So they need to have a plan. And it's just the way this person who withdraws processes their feelings. They need to be by themselves to really think about. I think it's good for anybody to just take some time and think about what happened and then go back into a conversation because you're just emotionally triggered in that moment nothing good is going

to come out if you're heated and you have a conversation so have a plan in place you know is it 15 minutes is it an hour and then to say after an hour I'm going to come back and we can talk about things in a calm way does that sound okay with you yes it does and then go from there I do feel like reflecting as part of like regulating emotions as well and understanding. I think a lot of times, too, when I'm reflecting back on like an argument or something really bad that happened, I start feeling shame around it and being like, was it my fault or was it? Like, I feel some level of shame. So is there a way to approach self-reflection with compassion? Like, how do you do that? I think thinking about what part did I have in this?

Because I truly believe accountability is very hard for me. Yeah. And if you want to go there, Do you want me to ask you why? Yeah. Okay. Because I think my mom's probably going to listen to this and go, stop blaming me. They did the best they could. Mom, you did better than the best. She was amazing.

But really, truly, my parents are incredible. But I do think they always wanted to fix something for me because it felt like I never really had to be held accountable for things. They were kind of always like, well, like, I don't know. Can I tell you why? Yeah. Okay. So they wanted to fix things because, again, they were.

Polly taught that negative feelings are not okay. So instead of seeing our kids struggle, we will do anything to fix it. So part of what I'm learning now as a parent is letting my child be uncomfortable, which is huge. Like my immediate reaction when he cries, I'm like, no, no, no, don't cry, don't like it'll be better. I'll fix it. I'll buy a new one. I'll do this. Yes. And re-learning that and saying, it's okay to be sad. Yeah, it's okay to be mad. I know you really wanted that, but we can't do that right now. Yeah. And that takes a lot. lot of self-regulation in ourselves because we have to be okay with our child not being okay. So your parents just didn't want you to feel discomfort.

And so then you probably learned that I don't want discomfort in my life. I am getting better at holding myself accountable because I do, especially in this last relationship, I totally see where I went wrong. I could probably write a whole novel on where I went wrong. It's just more like my brain goes, but they did this. So that was my reaction to that. Like, I make excuses for myself. Well, I think you're protecting yourself.

Yeah. From feeling the, like, I guess the accountability of like, yeah, I had a part in this. Yeah. But I'm not perfect. I'm allowed to mess up. That's the self-compassion that many of us don't have that voice is to say it's okay to mess up. Yeah. Because we were probably like, our parents just fixed things so we don't feel the mess up.

And, you know, my son will say just again, like, I so think this is like innate in them. He goes, Mama, you go, you do everything right. I'm like, huh? I'm like, cute, but no. Mama messes up all the time. He goes, really? You make mistakes? I'm like all the time.

Yeah, because kids see their parents. They're like their first heroes. Yes. Yeah, so it's changing this narrative of like, no, I mess up, daddy messes up, you mess up. We all make mistakes, but I still love you unconditionally, regardless of you make a mistake or not. Wow. I think that's a really powerful parenting tool.

Yeah. It doesn't come naturally all the time. No. Because you don't because you feel so exposed as a parent. You're like, you think I'm perfect? Yeah. You want to keep that up? And you're like, dang it. I think a lot of, like I feel like I have a really good support system, but I do have trouble getting feedback if it's not what I want to hear, even if I know it's right. How can I be more open to the constructive criticism? Getting comfortable with discomfort. Yeah, I'm really bad at that. It's like hearing it and saying, Okay. Again, I'm not perfect. I'm allowed to make a mistake. I'm going to think about this. I'm going to reflect and see what I can take from it. I mean, not always will what people say to you be actually something that's right or that resonates. And so you might think about it and say, you know what? I thought about it. I don't think they're right. I still think that what I believe in is the truth. It's like giving yourself, allowing yourself to mess up and be human. And I do all the time. I think sometimes to even talking to you and having therapist on my podcast and it makes me vulnerable too because I have to talk about my flaws and I have to hold myself accountable because I also get so scared that the internet is going to weaponize how I feel in a weak moment against me online and I don't know how to navigate those feelings of bullies online. Yeah. I think again the world we live in is just it's so different. These are things that you know our parents generation and nobody had to think about these things. And so recognizing how unnatural this is for us to even deal with and that we're still trying to figure out

but for you to maybe own what's yours like own what's yours be confident on what you're doing and then whenever you hear feedback again sit with it and see what comes up you might be surprised that maybe you sit with and you say okay i see some truth in that or you sit with it and you say no i'm pretty confident in what i said and i know what my values are i think knowing your values is crucial in something like this. Whenever I'm feeling really overwhelmed and like shame, I go, okay, I didn't hurt anybody. Yeah. And if you did, you're not in charge of pleasing everybody. Right. You're not in charge of people's feelings. I feel like I am. People have big feelings on the internet and it always seems to be my responsibility. But yeah, it's a lot. But we can be triggered by

anything. We as an individual have to be responsible for how we feel, what we do with it, how we voice that feeling you can't be in control of all of that of course we have to be sensitive to certain things we have to be mindful having a platform but you can't have control over how they react i feel like there's a lot of parents that listen to my podcast like a lot of moms do you have any practices for parents to try who are listening to this like any practices that you've learned as a mom i think you've talked about a few also do you have like a like a instagram page website like where people can do courses or something like do you do that i'm i'm worried Long-term, like my long-term goal is to have some sort of a course, but I'm very passionate about preparing parents for postpartum, for parenthood, because when I became a parent that was just clueless, even though I was in the field, mainly about the relationship with your partner and how much it changes. And you can have the strongest foundation and it will still shake you to the core. And so really making that foundation strong before you have a child, if possible, learning how to

navigate parenthood together because every stage is so challenging. I've had a really hard time in motherhood of just finding my own identity, keeping my career and being passionate about what I do. And I'll tell my son now, like, Mama's going to work. I love work. He goes, you do, but I want you to be by me all the time. I'm like, I do too. Again, cute.

Cute, but I got to go. Yeah. You know, because this is something so important for me. And so my big passion is just to help expecting parents or even, you know, I sometimes have couples who come in while they're dating then they get married and then we transition to parenthood together and so I love watching that journey that's cool yeah I mean truly changing lives out there thank you you really are and you said you know you go to work and you're a mom and a partner and as a therapist mother partner all the things how do you balance between your professional

and parenting roles while also taking care of your own emotional well-being because like how do you find time for you still struggling you know I think a big thing for me is I'm not going to do it all. I can't do it all. And again, that's a big thing with women, whether you have a kid or you don't. It's this idea that you have to do it all. I accept that I can't do it all. And so, you know, I think about these different roles as wearing different hats. So, you know, right now it's my professional hat. I'm here as the therapist. And then later on, my son has a school performance. And so I have my mom hat on and we'll be spending time with family. And then, like, a few times a week, I do like yoga or Pilates.

and that's my me time. And so I just wear different hats at different times. I'm not ever trying to wear all the hats at once because I think that's a recipe for a disaster. Yeah. I mean, even to just compartmentalize it like that is still so hard because there's not enough hours in the day. There really isn't.

It's crazy. There really isn't. A lot of people, like even my sister sometimes, she's like, well, therapy's so expensive, which it is, and it is for a lot of people. But are there specific books, apps, or online resources that you personally love, that you recommend to your people? patients for further understanding, like, emotional flooding or managing emotions.

I'm like, as you're asking this question, I don't know if you're asking. I'm like, uh, I actually don't. You need a podcast. You should write a book. Oh, thank you. Maybe one thing. That's so funny. You're like, no, just go to therapy.

Honestly, I mean, there's options, you know, there's so many self-help books, too. Yeah, there's a lot of self-help books. Have you ever heard of the book The Mountain that is you? hmm no that one cuts me to my core every day oh god yeah i'll add that to my list yes so there's my advice okay yeah i mean there's options for therapy there's low fee clinics there's you know insurance can cover it but i think it's also i remember when i interestingly i wasn't in therapy until graduate school although i was in graduate school to become a therapist funny yeah um i had some experience in the past but i hadn't gone myself and i remember thinking like well how can i afford it

You know, and I had a friend who was like, you spend this money on nails and getting your hair done and going out. Why not invest in like the inner you? Yeah. So I had to rethink my budget and like really think about it and invest in this. So I think, you know, if possible, maybe budgeting and doing something like that, but also there's low fee clinics that's available for everyone depending on your location. So that's an option as well. Yeah. I think that's a good idea.

Yeah. I have a little hypothetical thing for you. hypothetical emotional situations so a few situations that might trigger different emotions and then I thought we could walk through how to handle them okay a heated argument with a partner or family member and emotions are escalating what do you do in that moment time out time out you say I'm feeling really triggered right now and I don't think anything I say is going to be productive so I need to take 15 minutes to myself and I will be back can we continue this conversation later now it's so hard to do it's so hard and then especially if the person reacts with okay or like they don't understand your process yeah but you can't control

the other person right and that's something to remember in that moment yes okay constantly comparing oneself to others on social media including feelings of inadequacy and low self-esteem one tool i guess that i would encourage people to try is to think of yourself when you're talking to yourself what would you say to a friend who was going through this yeah if you had a friend say you know I'm constantly, you know, comparing myself to all these people on social media and I just, I can't do it and all those things. You'd probably be pretty compassionate. And you'd say you're doing your best.

Like, who cares what other people are doing? Just focus on you. And it's interesting because it's so much easier to say that to a friend than it is to ourselves. But I like that exercise because it shows you that you're able to say those words. You just got to look in the mirror and say it. I am such a dork in the mirror. You should hear the shit I say to myself.

mirror it's amazing like if i'm ever having a moment i'll turn the beat around real quick and i have like an out-of-body experience where i actually feel like i'm talking to a different person everyone knows this because i've done this for years but i like give myself mirror high-fives and like pet talks and the other day the other day i was having it and i i stopped and i looked at myself and i went hi you're doing great that's awesome you're doing really great you're a good person and i love you oh and i was like okay anyways my lip-blown i like i like had a moment i do that all the time And it's, I remember probably seven or eight years ago, because it was when I first moved into my house, I put up a sign in my mirror that says, because I've always been really focused on outer beauty, knowing that inner beauty is the most important, but I'm a bit crazy about that. So I put a sign on my mirror that says, work on the inner beauty and the outside will fall into place.

And I looked at it every day and I started having these conversations in the mirror with myself. Like, positive, positive affirmations and conversations. And don't you think it's changed the way... Changed everything. You know, there's research on that. That if you say positive affirmations to yourself, I think it's like for 21 days. I'm going on eight years.

Your brain chemistry changes. Yeah, I totally believe it. I still struggle with certain things. I totally, if I step out of that uncomfortable, like, insecure me, I'm like, no, actually, I wouldn't rather be anyone else. Yeah. Like, I love me. That's the inner critic part of you that comes out.

And typically, that's like a childhood, maybe it's from a past relationship it's like the little voice that just talks and tells us how terrible we are I get so mad at my brain because I say this on the podcast sometimes I'm like aren't you supposed to be on my team well it's a part of you it's not who you are there's a good thought when there's inner child work it's called parts work internal family systems and it talks about how we all have different parts that show up and they're they were created at some point in our life and what they do is they take over instead of you you being the self as the one that shows up. It's the inner critic. It's the anxious part of you. It's the angry part of you. And they all have this like inner battle of like who's taking the driver's seat.

Right. And you just got to tell them to go in the passenger seat. Yeah. Kick rocks. Yeah. That side of my brain. Going to social situations when you feel self-conscious, anxious or overwhelmed in a group setting. I would use some grounding techniques. Like drinking a bottle of wine before you go. Just kidding. No. Just kidding. Just kidding. Like the five, four, three, two one technique. You can use some breathing. techniques or grounding meaning when we think of grounding it's like literally like right now I'm sitting and I feel these headphones on my head yeah I'm feeling sitting in this chair there's trees around I'm in this room like I'm really tuning into what is present so that can kind of reduce the anxiety and like let's say if you're having physical symptoms and maybe to have some affirmations on your phone you know even if you don't believe in them just to have something where you're reading like I'll be okay I'm safe if I'm really uncomfortable I can leave and maybe having like a plan like that in place. Maybe you have a friend that you know, but I would say grounding technique to reduce the anxiety

and having a plan for yourself. When I was doing the child work at Hoffman, we did like a spiral almost of what your brain does when mine was, okay, I'm going to an influencer event or something. That's what it is. And then here's where my brain goes next. Okay, well, oh, this person's going to be there and this is going to happen.

So I have to be this kind of behavior. And then I go to the next one, I'm like, Oh, no, this person's body might look better than me in my dress, and then I might get photographed the wrong way. And then I start going into a spiral, but then it's going and going back and looking at that and seeing, okay, what do I need in that part of the circle? What can I give myself here? How can I prepare for this? Like literally drawing it out on a piece of paper, seeing what your spiral is, and then talking through yourself each phase of it to prepare. Yeah, I would say thinking of something we do with anxiety work is thinking of where it's

case scenario again if you don't feel safe doing this on your own this is good time to see a therapist to process it safely but you think of what's the worst case scenario okay they photograph you the wrong way and and then and then and you literally go through these thoughts and what happens at the end and you're like hmm I guess I'll be okay but the mind creates this like disastrous catastrophic result doomsday yeah and so you act like that's going to happen but when you really sit and reflect in a way like that, then you can get through it. What about unexpectedly running into an ex partner in public? I'm so scared of this because I'm like, I think it would be good, but what if it's not?

Yeah. If you feel like you're in a place where you can greet that person, do so. But if you feel like if you just look at them, it's going to break you apart and you're going to just fall apart, protect that. Yeah. I do feel like this is important because there's, you know, the holidays coming up. I feel like there's a lot of tension in families and a lot of feelings. come up especially because we all get triggered when we're around our family because that inner

child comes out. So stress when, you know, attending a family gathering and dealing with challenging relatives. Yeah, like the family dynamics. Yeah. I don't know. It's repetitive, but that's what comes to mind. I can't control them. I can only control what I think, what I feel, and how I react. So if I notice I'm getting triggered, I'll do, you know, nowadays I don't pull out my phone anymore because it's kind of like it's in me now. It's programmed for me. to have this kind of thinking, but even if it's like maybe you don't want to pull out your phone, you just sit down and think, why is this so triggering for me? What about this is triggering? How can I react differently? Can I change them? The answer is no. Right. So what can I do to protect

myself? Can I maybe box up this feeling? And then when I get home, I'll think about it. So I would focus on you and how to protect you. How can you communicate in a way that shows empathy and understanding and knowing that whatever their stuff is is not yours yeah i think it's such a profound thought that is so hard it is so hard yeah yeah it sounds easy yeah yeah yeah but we all know it's not but you can practice it in those moments like it's not it's not me yeah yeah yeah it's not me that's what i'm just going to say the rest of my life and it's not me it's you but it's it's we all we all do that you know I might say something that might trigger you you might say that might trigger me we all come in with these like I like to say it's how we view the world it's the lens we view the world

with and it has to do with childhood and all these factors and relationships and how many times we've been hurt and so you know I use silly examples like this water bottle can be very triggering for me because I don't know whatever example with that and then for you it might be just a water bottle right so it's the same item but for both of us we have a different perception. Right. And so taking that when you go into these holidays of everybody reacts to things because of their own past and it has nothing to do with you. And if it does, then you reevaluate and have a conversation about that if it's needed. But most of the time, people are just triggered because of their own stuff from the past. So true. Trigger also became a buzzword,

but I'm like, it's there aren't really like a water bottle could actually be drinking to somebody, you know? I never know what to say. I'm like the candle, the water bottle. You never know, that's the point. Yes. Well, I appreciate this conversation so much. I, like, feel bad because I'm like, yes, a free therapy session. No, you had such a calming presence, by the way. Really?

Yes. Wait, really? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Sometimes I think maybe because when I go into my therapist, she's like, calm down. And I'm like, am I a calm? I feel like I've got a big energy. I feel a very calm presence.

Wow. It was very easy to talk to you. Oh, thank you for saying that. As a host of a show, that means a lot to me. So thank you. I always hope to make my guests feel comfortable. I loved everything you said. Where can everybody find you?

My Instagram at Therapy with Guyana, that's G-A-Y-A-N-E, or my website, Therapy with Guyana.com, and I see clients virtually throughout California and in-person at my office in Sherman Oaks. What do you prefer? You know, there's nothing like in-person therapy, but after the pandemic, virtual therapy is so accessible to so many people. Yeah. Like, especially for moms with newborns, it makes it so easy for them to be in therapy. Yeah, no kidding. So I love that that's available now.

Well, thank you for what you do, and you too have a calming presence. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Of course. I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now ending. And if I'm being honest, I wouldn't mind a rating in a movie. Unravel the mysteries with forensic files and 48 hours. Investigate crimes with Dateline 24-7 and unsolved mysteries. With thousands of free crime movies and TV shows, Pluto TV is the true home of crime.

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