Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Grape Therapy: The Blckchelorettes (Vic & Mi) Talk Bachelor & Beyond

Episode Date: October 20, 2022

The (former) Blckchelorettes, Victoria & Mikayla (Vic & Mi) are on the mic with Kaitlyn in today’s honest and real episode about all things Bachelor, including their hopes for the future of the franchise, and their individual journeys and careers. Firstly, KB asks about their very recent decision to halt the podcast and their content; Vic & Mi provide insight on what’s going on and what’s to come. Will they still be watching the show? Then, Vic opens up about her recent journey with conquering breast cancer including her diagnosis at the age of 29, and the information and advice she shares could prevent you from going through the same. Mi shares what it was like to play a Williams sister in King Richard and gets vulnerable about her experience with bipolar disorder. Plus, the two define the difference between call-in and call-out culture, explain the importance of transformative justice, and advise how Bachelor fans can continue the conversation and encourage change after The Blckchelorettes platform has come to an end.  Thank you to our sponsors! Check out these deals for the Vinos: LIVING PROOF - Visit LivingProof.com/VINE and use code VINE to get 10% off your first purchase.  PROGRESSIVE - Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 27 million drivers who trust Progressive. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Okay, let's talk about the original enemies to lovers story. Before all of our reality TV couples, before the rom-coms, we binge, there was Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy in pride and prejudice. And Audible has just dropped a brand new original that will have you completely hooked, I am. It's not just any audiobook. This is a full cast performance. So Marisa Abella, you might know her from industry, brings Elizabeth Bennett to life.

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So whether it's your first time experiencing pride and prejudice or you've read it a million times, you're going to fall absolutely in love all over again. So go listen to Pride and Prejudice now at audible.ca slash Jane Austen. This episode of grape therapy is brought to you by Livingproof. Visit Livingproof.com slash vine and use code Vine to get 10% off your first purchase. And Progressive. Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 27 million drivers who trust Progressive. It's time for off the vine, grape therapy. Welcome to your weekly session. Caitlin and friends are here to share unfiltered advice, lots of laughs, and some major breakthroughs. So put your feet up, pop a cork, and get ready for some grape therapy.

I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now starting. All right. you're a true fan of this podcast, and you're familiar with the ladies I'm about to have on the mic with me. I'm constantly quoting their Instagram account. Victoria and Mykela, aka Vic and Mai, join me to talk about all things Bachelor franchise and beyond. Yes, the Black Chalettes, or maybe I should say former Black Chalettes, are here with me after announcing that they are ending their Instagram and their podcast. But we get into that and I loved this episode. I think you guys will too, whether you're familiar with them or just learning now. It's a

great conversation. Thank you both so much for doing this today. I've been, I mean, I've always wanted to meet you both via Zoom or in person. So this is so nice we actually get to do it. I did not know you were in L.A. Or maybe I did. But for some reason, I thought you were both in New York. Technically, yes.

Because, like, I had been in New York for the last five years, which is how Victorian I know each other. Got it. But my work for the most part in, like, TV and film. has been pulling me all over the place. And it's easier to be in L.A. and go somewhere than it is to be in New York and jump back and forth between coast. So I moved out here this year. Oh, got it. Are you liking it?

I do. I do. I'm in Long Beach, which has been really fun. I wanted to be out of that. I've been in Manhattan for five years. Wow, that's a big difference. It's a huge difference. And I grew up on the coast of Virginia anyway. So I was like, I need something a little similar to home. Yeah. So I get really well. weird with change. Like, I know change is always good, which we will, of course, talk about. But, like, I, the house that I live in in Nashville, I moved in with my ex. And I can't leave it because I've made it my own. Like, it has, it's nothing to do, obviously, with him. He didn't have any say in the decorating. It's very girly. Like, it's, Jason's like, we want to obviously

buy a house together. But I'm just so, I just love my little cozy home that I'm like, it feels safe to me. I don't know. Change is so scary. It's so nice to like have your space. Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons I came out here. And I think it's probably what, you know, not to speak for Victoria, but what her goal is. Yeah. Being back in New York is like building your own home. And that's what I feel like I'm doing out here. Yeah. In New York, it wasn't possible for me because I was always gone. Right. It was like, this needs to be a room that someone else can also live in. Yeah. And now it's like, all me. The change is terrifying, but I really like it. But has Has anyone ever gone through change, like a big change and regretted it? I wonder.

That's a good question. Yeah, I don't think so. I can't make it. People always say that, you know, changes scary and stuff. I kind of love it and I welcome it. And that's what I think is really something that I've learned and what I've experienced over these, you know, however many years that I've been living. There's so much excitement that for me that comes with change. And I am the type of person where I get, I'm also a Gemini. So like maybe that's part of it too. But I get very like. if I'm in the same place for too long, I'm like, okay, this is something, we've got to do something. Like, something's got to switch up. Like, I'm ready for some new energy. I'm ready for new experiences. So I kind of like change. Like, I remember moving out to New York and people were like, do you have a job? Who are you moving with? Like, what are you going to do? And I was like, no, myself. And I don't know. What? And I'm like, that's exciting to me. Like, literally blank slate. Let's go into it. See what happens. And that's, But that's when big things happen.

I guess change has always scared me, but I still force myself to do it. Maybe not in my home, but like I still force myself to do things that make me uncomfortable. And I do. I crave new energy too a lot. So big changes coming up for the both of you. I've just been fans of the both of you for a while. I'm always referencing your Instagram on this podcast because I can't speak as eloquently as you both can. So obviously I was scrolling through Instagram last night, saw your post announcing that you guys are ending the podcast and all of your content.

And I was, I was honestly shocked for a couple of reasons. One, because I was like, no, I don't want their job. Like, this is important. And then, too, I was like, but I'm talking to them tomorrow. Like, am I still going to get the chance? So I'm very happy that this is happening. But do you still want to be referred to as the black charlarets? I'm looking at Victoria.

I think I, so Maya and I have talked obviously, you know, leading up to this decision and we both are of the understanding that we built this together and we created this from the ground up starting in January 2021 when I looked at her Instagram story and she was talking about The Bachelor and I also was watching it by myself but like not really saying anything about it because I was like Loki embarrassed that I was watching it all the time. But I was like, girl, like, we're both over here watching this show. Should we like do this? Should we talk about it? Should we make a podcast? And so from that, we just really built something amazing and beautiful together. So I think even though it's ending, it's not like we can't pretend like it didn't happen. So we still are, I think, the black chillerettes with Vic and Mai.

But we just are no longer existing in that space together as we move forward. but we know that like that still existed. You know, it's the same thing. It's like both of us are actors, you know, when a show finishes, when a film wraps or whatever, like you're no longer in that every single day. That's not your environment, but you still did it. And that's still, you still hold space

and a special place in your heart for those people and for that time. So long answer, short, yes, we still are the Black Chilerats. We're just not continuing with that platform. That makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. And obviously I know this is somewhat. private. I know it's a blurred gray area when it's private, but you have this platform. It's also public. Yeah, exactly. So of course, you could say as much or as little as you want during this podcast. But can either one of you give us any insight into what's going on? Yeah. I think for Vic and I, because we've known each other for a significant period of time, like long before we even realize we both watched The Bachelor, I think we just realized that we are in different places in our lives. Like, these new seasons are coming on

for us where, you know, Victoria is back in New York, starting her life, focusing on her career, getting back into the swing of things. And I'm here in L.A., kind of trying to do the same thing. And as we get older, because I don't know, I was like, what, 22, 23 when I first met Vick, we've become these completely different human beings. Like, we've grown into the women that we, I think, always hoped we would be. Yeah. But in that, value shift, ideal shift, goals shift, our visions shift. And I think we recognize that we are no longer aligning in those spaces, which is both like heartbreaking but also healing in a way. Because it's like, dang, we'd grown so significantly. Like we're not even on the same page

anymore. Right. Go off, sis. Yeah. And so it was like the best most healing, most restorative and practical decision would be to go our separate ways. Yeah, because it's, I mean, first of all, I want to say you both do a ton of unpaid emotional labor, and I have to imagine that that would also get to the both of you. Is that also part of the reason? Because what you just said makes a lot of sense, which that's honestly part of the reason that I started a podcast by myself, is because I was like, I know the changes that I've made over my career and how much I grow and change and evolve. And I don't ever want to, like, get to a place with somebody where it gets weird.

So it's good to be able to both see where you're at in your life, where you're going and end it when it's, like, an appropriate time for you. But I also wanted to acknowledge the amount of emotional labor you both do and how that must affect you. Yeah. That stuff is hard. Yeah. It is hard. Yeah. Thank you for acknowledging that. Yeah, it is hard. And it can get pretty heavy.

And because, you know, it is Bachelor franchise and, like, you want to just watch it and just enjoy and just, you know, kind of tune out for however two hours after your workday and all those things. But as we watch it, we have to watch with a critical eye. And honestly, in reality, it's not even a critical eye a lot of times for us because as Black Woman's stuff just slaps us in the face differently than it would for a non-bi-Poc viewer. And so a lot of those things can really, you know, spark up a lot of emotion. And then for us, we both love words. We both love writing. So for us, that just comes out naturally in our discourse online and in our podcast. And while we enjoy it, it is really draining. And it is, it does take a lot out of us.

But I think that we have tried to set boundaries. but sometimes, you know, those, those don't work out. And sometimes, like, one person is taking on more labor and one person's taking on more labor another month. And so it just kind of switches and things get tough. And as you said, it is, I think I realized early on, I was like, oh, this is, it's kind of hard to do a podcast with a co-host because you do have to always consistently be on the same page.

And you don't want to feel like you're letting someone down. And sometimes you do drop the ball just because things come up. And so that is something that I don't think we anticipated going into. it. We kind of thought, oh, more hands. Like, it'll be easier for us to do it. And sometimes you realize, oh, like, this person's feeling this way. This person's feeling this way. I'm screwing up. They're screwing up. And it's just a constant back and forth of like trying to continuously find a middle ground. And sometimes it worked out. And sometimes it didn't. And so I think, as my said, just for us to continue to move forward and grow from where we are now, the best thing was just

to part and, you know, be able to cheer each other on from our separate coasts, literally. And I think, like, acknowledging the sustainability practice was a big thing for the both of us. And Victoria and I have tried to maintain that throughout this entire process while also recognizing that we walked into a space that is controlled by a predominantly white demographic. And we knew what we were watching. We've been watching the show our entire lives. Like, we know who the show is for, technically. But it reminds us a lot of how we have to take up space in all kinds of facets of our lives,

where we have to be twice as good just to, like, measure up to the bare minimum of what non-people of color would have to, what kind of labor they would have to expel. So it's like, you know, we went from being like, oh, let's talk about The Bachelor and, like, find intersections with activism and blackness because that's what we do. And that's also how we just exist in the world to being like, wow, I have to write, like, a 14-page dissertation every single episode just to make sure we come correct. And that if someone wants to check us, we can actually have a sustainable conversation. And it's been exhausting, I think, for the both of us.

I mean, I cannot imagine. And did you find at one point watching the show that there was hope or even when, you know, maybe we did have a little bit of hope? I don't know how you feel. Did you feel like there was hope for the franchise? I kind of, yeah. I did. And I think that you and Tasia were a big part of that. I think that bringing the both of you on.

on as co-host. I mean, I guess I don't know what the official title was. We did talk a little bit about that on our... I don't think I even know. What's the... What's going on? Yeah.

You know, let me not. But we think that that really helped to shift where the franchise was headed in a very, very positive way. And then we see what happened. And we were like, oh, well, we were, you know, we were trying to do all these things.

And we were seeing change happening and we were seeing people on the show being valued in the way that they should have been all along. And then that was suddenly taken away and we were and we reverted back to what was comfortable for Bachelor Nation, which is a cis straight white man giving advice on relationships and love to a variety of people, but especially to people of color who they don't have any relationship with or don't understand their experiences. So it's very up and down. And I think that the show gives us, you know, one tiny thing. And then we think that we're taking some steps forward and then we end up taking 10 steps back.

And so that also is draining for us because we're like, oh, there's this, this thing happening. But then over here, you know, like, why are we still over here treating these dark same black women like they and shit? You know, like it's just very, it's just very frustrating to see. But I mean, as of right now, I don't know that I have hope for the franchise. Yeah. I really, I really don't know. right now. But I will say that when we did have you and Tasia, we were really excited and we were really the future, I guess, for lack of a better word, the future was bright. And we were ready to

see what was going to happen. And unfortunately, that we were robbed from seeing more of that. Well, thank you for saying, Matt. I know you both were so supportive in the DMs and on social media. And it meant so much because that was kind of why we agreed to doing it is because we thought we were being part of the change. So it was disappointing to us as well. well. And we felt like we were letting, well, not we personally were letting people down, but the franchise. Like, you know, and I think we, or I specifically lost hope as well. You know, and then you think there's another opportunity. And then again, it's missed. And you're like, oh, okay, so it was just one of those things where in that moment, it was like, look at us. We can do this. And then it was

like, well, we'll go back. Yeah. And then we went back to what is comfortable for what the viewers like to see. Sure. And I think also something to note is like we're looking at a system or a structure that's been in place for such a long period of time. And we're seeing it happen in every single aspect of American culture and society, right? Every industry is having this conversation right now where it's like, okay, we were real hype in 2020. Things were kind of like people were talking about change. We were reigniting because it wasn't a new movement. It wasn't really a resurgent. It had always been happening, but they started listening and looking. at us. And in that time period, people are like, oh, yeah, we have to co-sign this change. Because

if we don't, we're going to lose out on our bottom line. And now that people feel removed enough from it, people get to go back and, you know, say, oh, that 2020 DEI initiative that we started, I mean, it's not really our priority right now. Right. You know, we got to maintain access to our demographic. And, you know, we did hire some new producers. There are more producers of color than ever behind the scenes of this show. And so it's like acknowledging that a lot of infrastructures or industries or institutions rather have shifted the ways in which they thought would be enough for us, that we'd be like, okay, thank you.

Which is ridiculous. Activism and change isn't just a box that you take off. And I think that that's what the Bachelor franchise tries to do. They're like, oh, we had Matt James. Great, done, check. We had Michelle. Great, done, check. We've hired some new producers. Great, done, check. But like, what are we actually doing for the people on this show to support them and to create a safe space for them? What are we actually doing for our viewers to let them know that we do actually hear them and that we do actually see them and we want to actually enact that change?

I don't think that they've grasped that. I think that for them, it's just very much we can check off these boxes and we can, you know, give you your little pennies and your little, like, bird food and take that and be happy. there's always this sense of, as a person of color, there's always this idea of like, you should be happy that you're in the room. You should be thankful that you're even allowed to be here because we could have chosen someone else. And that is a really harmful tactic used to continue to make us as people of color,

you know, shrink into ourselves and feel like we don't actually get to take up that space. And that I think is what is consistently happening within the Bachelor franchise. It's just we gave you the space. You know, we're not going to actually do anything to care for you within it or to provide you with the systems that you need

to uphold you as either a black lead or a mixed lead or as just a person of color on the show. But you're here. So, you know, do what you can. And that's just not a safe space. Yeah. That just made my stomach turn when you said that because I'm thinking about, you know,

my seven years in this franchise. And, you know, I also was not even aware of how bad that was until people, you know, I was started to follow people that were speaking about it and I started getting invested in and caring about it. And I was like, oh my gosh, how was I such an idiot to, you know, I was so blind to it too. So do you think that there is a solution? What could they do? Because we've already seen them try and it didn't work because they went back. What do you think the solution is? Like, do we keep holding them accountable? Do we stop watching? the show, what do you think the solution is?

I think there are so many different ways. There are so many different entry points, rather, right? Because something that I think Victoria and I reference a lot in the content that we build is the idea of transformational justice or transformative justice, which is this idea that we have to believe in an institution or an individual's capacity to change in order to like push and advocate for that kind of accountability. So we have so many ideas. And usually the answer lies in the people who are directly impacted by the problems at hand.

So they have a salute of people of color and black contestants specifically that have been on this show. And I'm sure have fantastic ideas about what would have made them feel safer or more accurately represented on the show. Are the people in leadership willing to have those conversations with those folks and take seriously or take heed on the steps that they're like, we need to do this, that in the fourth. This would be helpful. An idea that I feel like so many people talk about is change who's in charge of casting, right? What kind of bodies are we welcoming into the space? What kind of identities are we welcoming into this space?

What kind of human beings do we want to have on this show? And then when we start editing these episodes to, like, you know, of course it's reality TV, we want people to watch. We want people to, like, itch for the clickbait and all of that kind of energy. But are we making sure that the stories that are being. afford it to the people of color on this show are fully nuanced and layered and acknowledge the wholeness of their humanity rather than stereotypical tropes that we're used to? You know, are we able to hold ourselves accountable when we watch people within the Bachelor

Nation community condemn and go off on someone like Nate Mitchell and start, you know, passing all of these rumors around him being a deadbeat single father without taking into account what that means to say it about a black man? Yeah. Or without being really critical about these situations when all of a sudden there are white bodies that are saying, oh, this person of color is worthless. And how does the audience react to that when a white body comes into the space and makes a flagrant error, right? Such as the blackface incident that we, I guess, incurred with this year. And everyone's like, actually, that's not even that deep.

You know, it's okay. He was just kidding. Right. He's like, no worries. You know, and there's definitely a conversation to be had, right? But being able to acknowledge how people are treated disproportionately, especially those characters of color, those people of color that exist in this franchise, I think is one of the first steps to acknowledging like, oh, we have to be so different about how we tell these stories.

We have to be so different about how we represent these people coming on to the show. We have to be so cognizant of the harms that we've already perpetuated and figure out what steps we need to. to do to not make that happen again, and it's usually by being in conversation with the people who know what that pain feels like. Because the knife is in our side. You know what I mean? It's not in Mr. Fleises. Right. And figuring out how to redistribute power and leadership, I think is something that a lot of people are scared of because they're like, well, I don't want to lose my access or my proximity to power. And it's like, it's not about you losing it. It's about

finding ways to be equitable about it, putting everybody on the same kind of playing field rather than saying that, you know, this person, this person of color is not going to have access to the same capital, the same following, the same proximity to platform, the same voice in this franchise because of how they look on their skin. Whereas other people who are not, you know, folks of color, don't have to worry about that. So how can we reimagine what that would look like, I think is one of the ways you can, like, start addressing those issues. I know that was a lot. My bad.

Please don't ever apologize for that. I was like that you explain it in a way that helps me digest it to you because I'm like, gosh, I want to like send this episode to all the like the old boys club that runs this show because it's like that explains it perfectly, perfectly. And I'm, I just wish someone of the higher ups would listen. and say wow she's right sure you know like that's even if i just take that one clip and say it over like hey guys could you listen to this um if you could take one minute of your time i don't i don't know i don't know how you feel about throwing it out there but you're right and that's what my mom always calls

it just the old boys club it's just you know and it's it's in a lot of industries too it's just we you know see it on on our tv screens okay you guys know that i've done that i've done definitely struggled with meeting my hair goals in the past. And we all have that one celeb that is like hair goals for us. For me, it's Lily Collins from the TV show Emily in Paris, or Emily in Paris, whatever you want to say. And now Lily and I are both living our best hair lives thanks to living proof. Founded by a team of scientists and hair experts, each living proof product is formulated to solve the toughest hair problems, not conceal them. And as a season's change, so do hair concerns. That is a fact. But I'm not always sure which products will

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BEDMGM. Check out our hottest exclusive. Friends of one with multi-drop. Once even more options, player a wide variety of table games or head over to the arcade for nostalgic casino thrills only available at BEDMGM. Download the bed and MGM Ontario app today. 19 plus a wager, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866 531, 2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. But MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the Instagram will still be up. The podcast, all the episodes will still be up. And that's accessible to everyone. I mean, I guess the full episodes are not fully accessible if you weren't a part of the Patreon. Sure. But so there's the previews of the episodes. But a lot of our previous episodes from previous seasons are up the complete episodes as well. So that all will still exist. We don't have any plans. to take that down because we know that that is, first of all, we put a lot of work into it. So, yeah. I bet. That that still exists. Yeah.

Because we're like, we did do this whole almost two years for nothing. But also, we know that our hearts are hurting because we know that there's so many people who did value and appreciate and learn from our content. And that is something that we will always, yeah, just carry with us. And we also still feel that responsibility to kind of be like this is still available, like this is still available to you and we want you to have it and we want you to have access to it. So we're happy to leave all of that up so that we can continue to be a resource even in our discontinuation. Yeah. And I think what's cool is some of the like community groups we started like our Discord, for example. Yeah. You know, but people engage in those spaces on their

own without us. Yeah. Right. Which I think is so cool. You've built a community of people that can continue your legacy. Exactly. And this. Like, we didn't even anticipate that. You know, we thought we was going to have, you know, two, three, four. When we got to 800 followers, we were like, holy, moly. Yeah, you know. And so the fact that people, even when we had to go on our hiatus earlier this year, people were continuing to show up in the Discord every week to be like,

let's talk about the episode together. And, you know, people will reach out to us, I think, on our personal pages to be like, hey, like, I know you guys, you know, probably don't do this. kind of work over here, but I would love to have this conversation with you or I have this revelation. I listen to this old episode. So it's a really self-sustaining community at this point, which I think is cool. That's really cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because again, they can continue the conversation and keep asking the hard questions. Mobilized together. Yeah. That's amazing. And I want to get into a little bit about your backgrounds and what each of you are up to because you're both very

accomplished, interesting people to follow. Now, okay, Vic, do you, do you, you, Yes. I know you don't mind if I call, I will never call you Vicki. I promise. I was listening to the Gabby and Rachel finale episode and you were talking about your breast cancer journey. Can you tell me about your experience with breast cancer if you feel comfortable? Because I want to say congratulations because you freaking beat it. And that is incredible. And yeah, I think it's just, you know, it's breast cancer awareness month. And I just am happy to have you on. And I'm happy that you beat it and wanted to hear a little bit about your journey for people listening. Thank you. Yeah. No, I appreciate that. Yeah, it is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. This, this October, which for me, it feels, there's a lot of feelings because I always knew that it existed, but I didn't have a personal connection with it. So this year, it's very, yeah, it's very out of body and very surreal. But, yeah, I was planning to move back to New York earlier this year in February. And I was living in Chicago, moving out of my apartment in South Loop. And I was living in, I was planning on going back to New York. The day after I moved out in my apartment, I was like, oh, like, this feels kind of weird. I literally had like my water bottle under my armpit and I was just holding it, you know, as you do. And I was like, oh, that hurts. Like, what is that?

And felt something there. Had my mom feel it. She was like, yeah, maybe you should go get that checked out. Went to the doctor. The doctor was kind of like, oh, it's probably nothing. It's probably a cyst, which I did have in college. I had a cyst. And I was like, oh, yeah, probably nothing.

And yeah, that was kind of end of January when I went to the doctor for the first time. And then at the end of February, literally February 28th, I got my official diagnosis of breast cancer. Specifically, I had DCIS, which is ductal carcinoma in C2. NC2 means not contained, which means it was non-invasive. So thankfully, I was able to find that early. So I cannot, it is breast cancer awareness months. I cannot stress enough how important it is to do self-checks, whether you identify as a woman, whether you identify as non-binary, whether you identify as a man.

Like their breast cancer, you know, it's more, it leans more toward women, but it doesn't have a gender. Right. And so make sure that you are doing those self-checks because had I not, in reality, I wasn't doing a self-check. I was just chilling, holding my water bottle. And I was like, ouch, this hurts. So, you know, had I been doing that early?

year. I could have maybe found it even earlier. But yeah, I was diagnosed with breast cancer in February of this year at the age of 29. One of the like cancer associations, the World Health Organization, they don't, they basically stopped recommending self-checks for anyone under the age of 40. Every person that I've met who's had breast cancer over these past 10 months has been diagnosed before the age of 40. So it is extremely ridiculous that they don't recommend those and that they stop advocating for them. Because as you know, we don't get mammograms. They don't suggest us to get mammograms until we're 40, all those things. But like I said, every person that I've met has been diagnosed before the age of 40. And so it is out there and anyone can get it. Personally, for me,

I have the Bracca 2 gene, which is the breast cancer gene, which makes you more susceptible for breast cancer at a young age. I don't have any history of cancer in my family. All of my relative, my mom and my sisters got tested for the brachia gene because once someone in your family it's genetic, once someone in your family test positive, they, you know, suggest that your other blood relatives get tested as well. They all came back negative, thankfully. So yeah, I'm really just the odd one out here in my family, which I'm happy to be, you know, I would rather not, I'd rather my family not have that gene. Right. Right. But yeah, I was diagnosed and then very quickly, it was, let's get a treatment plan. And so because of my Brachia 2 mutation, the best

plan for me was to get a double mastectomy. And so, yeah, at 29, I went into surgery and literally got my boobs removed. And that's not really something that you think is going to happen before you turn 30, especially as like, you know, a person trying, as an active woman, as an actor, as a single woman, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is a lot to think about. Then you have to think about, you know, breastfeeding and having kids and passing on that gene to your kids. So it's just so many things that you have to think about so quickly when you're making these decisions. When, you know, a couple weeks ago, I was like, oh, I'm just about to move back to New York. And then suddenly my entire life has shifted and having to make all these

decisions that will literally affect the rest of my life. Yeah. So yeah, it was really, really hard. It was really tough. I had the surgery. April 19th. And I did elect to do reconstruction. So my route was the double mastectomy to tissue expanders, which will eventually go to implants. And yeah, so I currently have these tissue expanders in. I was, I will say, so we already said I'm cancer-free. I beat it. So basically, after the surgery, they, you know, do all that, make sure they got clear margins, send it all loft pathology. Everything came back clear. So I didn't have to do chemo or radiation, which was a literal miracle. Yes. And so I was declared cancer free, you know, from that day. So that's kind of,

I think in the, in the cancer community, people are like, when do you celebrate your cancer free? Is it like when you got the call on your surgery? Is it like when you finish chemo? Is it all these things? And everyone kind of decides you get, you get to choose for yourself, you know? So for me, I decide that my surgery day is the day that I was cancer-free. Amazing. So I'm coming up on six months, which is wild. Really, really thankful. It's actually, every time I say, like, I'm so thankful to be here.

I get emotional because it's like, damn, like, I really had cancer. Like, I just, like, have to think about that. It probably just doesn't feel real. Yeah. Like, I really had that and went through that. And yeah. And now you get to be an advocate for, you know, women's health and breast cancer awareness and I mean it really does that I thank you for being to

open about it because it really does you know inspire people to like wow 29 like wow I don't ever listen to doctors that's the same thing you know like my fiance Jason he said to his dad like you know my friend's dad just had a heart attack and I just really want you to go get your heart scan and he's like no like they don't it's not easy to do and I'm active and I'm having healthy and I eat healthy and he went and he's in like the 90th percentile for a heart attack and you know and it's now he just don't realize you just don't realize so it's like listen to the to the voices that have gone through this who are saying I was 29 and I went through this check yourself yeah and do something about it because it doesn't it doesn't matter what age

you are you know no like definitely doesn't that's so so now moving forward what in and you're in New York, cancer-free, what is your plan now? Or do you even have one? Because that's okay, too. Yeah, right. I know. I mean, I think I have a plan, but we all know, like, we make these plans. And then it be like, oh, you thought.

So I, yeah, I moved back to New York, actually on October 1st. So I'm back here. I still have another surgery coming up. So that's a whole other thing. But, yeah, I'm back in New York. And I'm just very much ready to. start to find a new normal. I am, you know, back here ready to go back to auditions and hopefully be booking something soon. And just getting back to this life that I started in 2018, you know,

when my Kayla and I met and then got put on hold due to Pandemi Lobato, due to my cancer diagnosis. Like it was so many things that happened. And I'm like, okay, I'm back here. Like, I'm ready to live my life. I guess I don't have any concrete plans. I'm just ready to really see what can happen here. And I'm like very much chasing my dreams, very much taking it one day at a time, very much staying up on my self-care, checking my own piece because New York is like insane and tries to break you down quickly. And I will say she did it back in 2018 when I was younger.

She broke me down. Real time I'm not again. I am older. I am wiser. I am a little. literal fighter like you're not going to get me so i like you are a fighter i love that i'm like i'm here and like what what's we don't have to square up new york like or are we going to be chill i just need to you're stepping into the energy is that's i'm telling you um jason always talks about wanting to move

to new york and i'm like i don't think i'm tough enough i don't think i'm tough enough i don't recommend it for everybody no not that i love nashville i don't see myself raising a family there because of a lot of reasons but uh new york scares the shit out of me. I think you have to be a tough cookie to do that there. But you know what? Those are the people that, you know, you're there. You're not letting New York win against the fight. And that means you're going to do big things. So I'm excited for you. And I'm going to call you my because I don't want to screw up my Kayla. Yeah, you said it. It's like my Kayla, not your Kayla. That's what I usually say. I like that. Okay, I did not realize you played

Tundi in King Richard, I stalked your personal Instagram. And I was like, what the heck? How is that experience? Yeah, I play. So the film King Richard is a movie about the youth of the Williams family, Serena and Venus Williams. And essentially, it's the story of how their father had developed this insane plan for greatness, alongside his wife and coach and mother and just all around badassness.

Ms. Brandy or Ms. Oracine is her name. And there are three other children. Serena and Venus are actually the youngest of five. And so I play the eldest William's sister, Tundi Price, in King Richard. Yeah. That's really good. That must have been a wild experience. And you probably learned so much about those women, you know, and that family history.

Absolutely. I mean, these, Serena and Venus are people that I've looked up to my entire life, you know. And I always remember seeing their family in the same. stands every single match all the time. Or even when I was little, my dad, when he wasn't away on deployments, he would take me and my little sister to go play tennis at the local park down in Virginia. And I never realized, yeah, I never got why he was doing that at all. I love tennis, though, because I love Serena and Venus.

Wow. I was, I wasn't terrible. I wasn't trash, but I'm definitely not going to, like, anybody's grand slam any time. But growing up, I realized I was like, oh, I was born in the, you know, the 90s. And one of the penultimate examples for Black fatherhood on television at that time period was Richard Williams. You know, he was always in the media for, well, I guess being criticized and kind of condemned for how involved he was in his daughter's careers. And the same for the whole Williams family, including Ms. Orsene. But Serena Williams, her serve, was developed by her mother.

Wow. Yeah, who, like, neither of them had any experience with tennis at all. But, yeah, being able to learn about my idols while also working alongside my idols, like working with the Williams family, working with Mr. Will, Ms. Anjeneu, Mr. Bernthal, and Mr. Goldwyn. It was all kind of just very humbling whirlwind. I got that job when I was actually trying to step back from acting. Really? Yeah, I had started working at a hospital in a.

behavioral health and psychiatric ward with patients. Yeah, because I studied nursing and theater in school. Yeah. And so I had started working there. I was workshopping a show off Broadway and I was getting and I was teaching a course at Columbia Law School. So I was like, all right, agents. Like, we're going to have to hold up on the audition because like I need to be about

my money. I don't know how this acting thing is going for me. And I got a call saying, hey, will you fly out to L.A. for a chemistry rate? Holy! And I was like, um, they're going to pay for my flight. And my agent was like, no. Really? Yeah, no, they don't do that at all.

But he was like, but, you know, if you can get out here. I was like, oh, oh, yeah, let me just call my dad, Mr. Bartholomew, if I could get a quick $700. And I was on that flight and in callbacks. And it was just, I had never done anything like it. I remember walking into the room and seeing, like, you know, some of the girls that were going in for the older sisters. like, oh, like, you're actually famous. You big famous. And I know you. And I definitely am a grown woman and you look like you're about 12. So out of my league here. But you did it. But I did it. We were there in that callback for, or that chemistry for, I want to say, two and a half hours.

Wow. And they kept bringing us in and out of the room, switching, like mixing up the groups, being like, okay, you can go home. And actually, could you stay again? And I was like, they're going to send me home first. And when, you're going to send me home first. And when, And me and the two other young ladies left. It was like the sun was setting. We had been there all day. And they had asked if they could take a picture of us together. And so we like, I was the oldest in the room.

So I was like, can I touch you? Was it cool? Yeah. We all like kind of got together like sisters. And a week later, they were like, yes, yours. That's awesome. It was very cool. That is.

That's awesome. Such an incredible story to tell. Yeah. A story that I believe in with my whole heart. And I'm glad that the Williams family got to take ownership on how they wanted to start telling their story. Because there's so much more and it's coming. You know what I mean? Well, that's the thing when, you know, there's documentaries or certain things.

A lot of times those people aren't able to tell the story, you know, or the families or the people don't have a say in how that story is told. So that's cool that they were involved and that you got to be a part of that. Yeah. Their older sisters were on set with us every day, helping with, like, costumes, helping being like executive. producers and serena and venus had very intentionally held held back they were like we will not name ourselves as attached to this project yeah until we see the finish like we had met them in everything they come on set and visited like incredible human beings just so kind yeah they were like if y'all messed us up we are not claiming you oh gosh no pressure no pressure at all but

holy i got to meet them at uh f1 oh cool they love f1 yeah yes and so pleasant and And then they're at the after party that I was just dancing with everybody, just so kind and fun. Oh, my gosh. That's incredible. This week's grape therapy is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now, you know what you're doing. And I say it every week, you're probably multitasking. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably driving or cleaning or exercising, maybe grocery shopping.

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Sure. So I think my experience with bipolar was kind of an anomaly. It's not common that people find out. I was diagnosed when I was 14 years old. Oh, okay. Which was super early. My mom and I were both, my mom, my little sister and I, we were all home while my father was away on a deployment for, I want to say he was gone for about a year or two. And I was starting high school. school. And I was in this program called the International Baccalaureate program. So it's like honors on steroids. And I could not sleep. Like I had stopped sleeping. And we just thought I was overwhelmed with anxiety and depression from the amount of work that is required of like 15 year olds in this program. And I made an attempt on my life because I could not, I like hadn't slept in so long and I was just delirious and I did not know what was going on. I started hearing things. And my little sister, bless her heart, Maya, who like, if you're listening to this, hey girl.

But she found me. I was sent to a hospital and was institutionalized pretty quickly. And they realized they were like, oh, we actually think you're showing signs of bipolar depression. And there are multiple forms of bipolar disorder. I was going to ask. Okay. Yeah. So they kind of almost put it on a hierarchy. I'm not sure if they still consider cyclothemia a form of bipolar disorder, but that's what is on the lowest rung of bipolar depression, where you have episodic issues with mania and depression. And then it kind of goes up from there with bipolar one, two, and three. And so I got diagnosed so early that usually people are around the age of 26. Okay. Or 22 to 26 is when they usually are diagnosed. So I think the ways that they found out that that was what was happening

to me was just I was being institutionalized. So I was under observation constantly. And they could recognize the signs of an episode. But for people who are curious, you know, in their adulthood about whether or not they have bipolar disorder, you can get in conversation with a therapist and a psychiatrist is something that I think is often recommended. I worked in psychiatric health care for for quite a bit but all of my patients like they were diagnosed at around that 22 year old mark because usually there's an episode that's triggered and yields like either like something that puts them as a danger to themselves or a danger to others that puts them in a position that they're being observed for varying mental illnesses or differing mental capacities is what I'd

like to say and so yeah usually an episode of mania is like you're not sleeping you're really hyperactive and it's different for everybody. It manifests differently in everyone's identity, but I know for me, I'll speak for myself, mania manifests in the way where, like, I'm not sleeping. And I mean, when I say I'm not sleeping, I'm up. Yeah. And I'm hyper, almost as if I'm like over-caffeinated. Yeah. My decision-making skills are impaired. I'm a little more irrational, very irritable. And I'm moving at like 100 miles a minute. And usually I can. pick up on those when I start spending money weirdly. Interesting.

Yeah. So when I start spending money weirdly and when I was younger, I used to binge drink when I hit manic episodes. I remember one of the scariest episodes I've ever had is I, Lord Jesus, I ain't never said to sell low. But I went to hang out with some friends in Brooklyn and ended up losing, like, track of my thought, track of my time, how to get home. And I walked to Queens, which is far, all the way to LaGuardia Airport and tried to buy myself a plane ticket to China.

Wow. So, like, that was one of the most intense manic episodes I had that I wasn't, I didn't realize I was having an episode of mania until doctors got a hold of me. Right. And then there are depressive episodes where it manifests a lot like depression, where, you know, you don't want to eat, you don't have an appetite. you're like extremely lethargic and fatigued, which sometimes for folks feels like hormonal depression or feels like seasonal depression. And so I think oftentimes they use episodes of mania as a means to track down. Is this bipolar disorder?

Is this seasonal depression? Is this hormonal depression? Is it clinical depression? Like what is it? Yeah. Because I also have anxiety. Yeah. So for so long they were like, she's just anxious.

Right. she's just shy or she just she can't focus on things because like you know she might have ADHD right all of those things that people distract themselves to look towards rather than assessing the actual I guess qualitative aspects of a diagnosis again those freaking doctors boy oh boy health care in America is a different ballgame oh it really is it really is my gosh I I was blessed to live in Canada for a long time with that so that was just a different situation but well again like I always keeps thanking you but I mean it like yeah thank you both I just love when people are open and honest and real about things that are going on in their

lives that so many people can relate to and you know that so many people are afraid to speak on but then when they hear people that they look up to speaking about it it's just like it makes it more helpful oh it's so helpful if my mom listens to this episode she's going to be why you put all your business out on front street just going to be upset my parents have been so saying that for years. My mom already knows. Yeah. There she go.

She's like, there she go. She's like, I'm going to listen to the episode. I'll send it to a few of my friends. Yeah. Well, that's, they're proud too. Before I let you both go,

I just wanted to go back, unfortunately, to The Bachelor franchise. I was just cracking up when you guys said on your podcast that Rachel and Gabby, the finale could have been an email. Because it's,

Victoria would be funny. She'd be having those zingers, man. That is so good. That's the thing. I don't know if I said it or you said it because it could have been either of us. That's true. Fair. It's so, it's just so good. And I mean, of course, you saw on social media, I was upset that they didn't touch on Eric's blackface. Now, I heard he reached out to both of you after. Yeah, he did reach out to the black chillerettes. And honestly, pretty early on very immediately. And of course, like, I want to respect his privacy. But he reached out. And he and I actually ended up grabbing coffee. and having a long, because he was like, I want to know. He was like, make an example of me, dog.

You know, that was his energy. And I was like, oh, my goodness, this is, we have this segment on the podcast called Do Better Sis, and Sis is CIS versus Gender to kind of call in opportunities. We understand the need for call out culture, but we also understand that call in culture is really helpful to, like, really get into conversation with people because that's how we can start pushing towards change, like, from the inside. So, like, we always need somebody calling somebody out, and we use Do Better Sis as a means to be like, okay, we're going to have to work on this. Yeah.

Okay, let's have a conversation about what's really going on here and why this is a big deal. And he had watched our videos and I believe listened to the episode that we put out about it and was like, yeah, I want to know what accountability looks like. I want to understand the history of Blackface because I didn't know it. And we had, like, such a wonderful conversation. I was like, now this is a friend now, you know. I love that. I gave him a book where there's this book called What Can White People Do Next? It's written by a black femme identifying human.

And it's a fantastic piece of literature, in my opinion, as well as referring him to some information by Adrian Marie Brown. He was just like, whoa, like, this is so helpful and you're so nice. And I was like, yeah, I'm not here to be a nice. dick yeah no kidding you're like you're like I want yeah we want that change let me ask do you feel like it is your responsibility to do that um I think it kind of became a responsibility when we started the podcast because we took on the yeah the labor of being like we will stand in this position here in this community but I think Victoria is the best at explaining why it's not really our responsibility so if you want to yeah it's not it's not our responsibility but

we also know we're both very aware of the platform that we had and the type of people who were coming to that platform. And it was mostly, we have, like, we do have a good amount of, you know, people of color that support us and follow us. But it was mostly, you know, white people who were coming to that space to learn. Some of them were coming to, you know, be out of pocket and, you know, say, I was going to say, I know you experienced that. Yes. Yes. We dealt with that when we had to, but I think that we realized, okay, like, we've taken on this

this role as, you know, educators and as people who actually want to see people do better. You know, we're very much like, listen, we're going to call you out when, like, when you're going to say some, like, if you said some shit, like we're going to have to talk about it.

Right. Let's not pretend that this didn't happen, okay? Like, we need to be open and honest about the situation, which is why with the Eric thing, we were like, it was racist. Like, we need to be. let's just start there. We just have to say it out loud.

We need to say that it was, call it what it is. It was racist. But from there, where can we go? And so we think that that part, we have taken on that responsibility of like, okay, we're going to call this out, but we're going to give you the steps to move forward. Because that's really the only way

that we see that change can happen and that people actually listen to us. Because everybody, especially when it comes to, you know, anti-racism and anti-racism and talking about justice and transformation. There's just, you know, people, they don't want to just hear like it was racist. Like, they want to hear the why and they want, like, it's not enough for us to just say that something is racist because white people don't accept that. Yeah.

Because they don't want to hear that from us. So we have to give literally all the receipts versus why, as Maika said earlier, you know, we have to come, you know, 10 times more, like with 10 times more energy and more resources. than the average other person does because people aren't going to listen to us if we don't have that laid out for them. And so that's what we've tried to do when we try to, you know, post things on our Patreon as steps of accountability or even on Instagram.

It's our responsibility. And we don't, while it is taxing, we know that nothing's going to change if we don't do that. So we just took that on. And we're not happy to do it, but we were very much like, this is what has to be done. Right.

Yeah. If no one else is going to do it, we will be the ones. Yeah. Well, thank you. No problem. Of course. It's been so cool to be in this space. Yeah, I bet.

Interesting and hard. We've learned a lot. Yeah. Oh, we have learned so much. I bet. And so have we, by the way. Now, you didn't watch Clayton season. Mm-mm.

We did not. What made you want to tune back in for Gabby and Rachel's season? Oh, that's actually a good question. Yeah. I think it was just time. timing really. I don't think it was just we needed a break. I think it was just we needed a break. That was also, I think Clayton season was happening when I was dealing with my entire cancer journey. And I was like, well, listen, there are some things that are important and there are some things that are not.

Yeah. And so I think it was just timing. And then we kind of were like, oh, we're both in a place. We're kind of settling back in. You know, there's this new season coming up. It's going to be two bachelorets. Should we just do it? Like, should we just hop back in and make it fun? And I think that was our goal. We're like, we're going to make it fun. We're not even going to really talk about all the things. And here we are.

And then we got slapped in the face. Immediately everybody's like, in our DM's like, are you going to talk about this? Yeah. I think you should. Yeah. And we're like, we was just trying to have fun. Like, we just, we just wanted to engage in some white mess, you know.

Just have a little fun with the white people's for a little bit. See, see which of our, you know, see which of our skinfolk and can. And folk would come on and... And then you're like slapped in the face. I know. And you're watching Bachelor in Paradise. Yes. Will you continue to watch?

Oh, yeah. Okay. I think I will. I don't know about you. Yeah. I think it'll be nice to watch. Oh, also I wanted to say another reason why I think I wanted to come back for Gabby and Rachel's season was one of my friends was on it. Oh, yeah.

And so I mean, we have to talk about it. We have to talk. Yeah. So my friend Mario. Oh, yeah. We're from the same place, went to the same high school, did the same. same like church leadership program for two years, like travel to Ethiopia together. Like we've, we've been through it for the past like 10 years.

Um, so he was on it. So I actually remember him telling me that he got on the show when I was waiting in the hospital for an MRI. And I like sent him a screenshot and I was like, yeah, excited for you. This is where I am. Oh, no. Not great timing. But yeah, that's another reason why I was like, okay, Michaela.

We have to watch the show. I've never had, like, this much of a personal connection with a contestant. So I feel like this is a time to come back. That's fair. Yeah. So that was really fun. But for Paradise, I think I'll still watch. I think that it'll be nice to be able to watch once again, just as a viewer and not have to take my notes.

Yeah. We watch episodes and rewind and be like, what does she say? You know. What about Zach's season? Will you watch that? Oh. Look, nothing against that. No, that's what I said.

Hear me out. Yeah. Right. If Zach's season includes an episode where we bring back David Spade and Mr. Patrick Warburton and have a Emperor's New Groove themed date where all of his hopefuls have to dress up as Isma, then yes, I will be watching this. Right. That's fair. How hard will it be, though, to watch without taking the notes and without having, you know, that platform to use to speak on what you want to speak about? I think I'm kind of interested, honestly. in being a viewer because one of the reasons I think going into this space in this community was so much fun is we didn't have actual relationships with but like a friend of mine is Jess Ambrose who hosts Chattie Brods and was one of the reasons why I was like maybe I should start podcasting just in general and when Victoria was like you want a podcast about The Bachelor I was like yeah so we came in and we've made so many friends with the creators in these communities like two black girls one rose ash talks

batch, the black roses, and obviously Chattie Broads is a community. Isn't there another one on the rabbit, the bachelor rabbit hole? Bachelor rabbit hole is one, yeah. And then there's also. Bachelor data. Bachelor data. But I'm excited to be able to be one of their listeners. Yeah.

Like we always engage with their content. We listen to their, if I was listening to two black girls, one rose a couple days ago. Yeah. That's awesome. But now I get to be in the comments. Yeah. Now, will it be hard not to take notes?

Probably I even, I was like, I don't know if we're going to talk about Bachelor in Paradise. So I brought my notes. I was like, I also have notes. Yeah. I pulled up on my computer for sure. So it's going to be weird for sure. Okay, so two more questions before I let you go. One, would you come back for a recap on Paradise since you still are watching and I would love to have you both back to recap?

I would. Okay. That would be so fun. Okay. That would be so fun. Okay, good. Yeah, it would be fun. And then lastly, like we said earlier about how you've done a lot of unpaid and emotional work to educate us and your followers and just fans of the Bachelor franchise, what can people do to actually say thank you and thank you for this work to make an impact themselves?

Oh, wow. That's a good question. Yeah, that's a good question. Sheesh. I mean, for me, I think it's just, it's really about continuing the conversations that. we've started and continuing to share the information and resources that we put out there because we did put a lot of work and effort and time into them. And yeah, I think just sharing that with people in your lives that may need it.

I'll just leave it at that, you know, because we all have those people in our lives. A lot of us need it. Now, I don't know if I agree with all the things that you're saying. So I'm just going to send you this and hopefully that you read it and move forward. So I think that that's really all of the thank you that I think I need personally. It's just to continue to see people educating themselves and doing that work because that's the only way that we're going to see any change in this world, let alone the Bachelor franchise. Absolutely.

And I think something that goes hand in hand with that is for folks to, like, we aren't and never have been the only black creators in this space having these conversations, even if it's not as. like to the depth that we, like one of the reasons we would go so deep is because of that feeling that we had to show up and be twice as good, but also because we have experience working in the advocacy and activism space. And we are also artists that work in the entertainment industry. However, there are so many other black creators that exist and they need to be paid for their work. You know, it's like we've done a lot of unpaid emotional labor over here, but we also invest our time and our money into creators like the two black girls, one rows. You know, we're like, we're like, like, oh, someone put an educative resource out here and they have a Venmo and a cash app. Let me repost that on my story. Let me follow somebody that does not look like me, does not have the same lived experience as me, like expanding your community so you have access to differing perspectives than you would otherwise engage with in real life, I think is one of the best ways that people can continue the work.

And like, you know, reading the books, but like not just reading the books, having conversations about other people who don't know and paying. Black creators, that's so important. It's a conversation that we had time and time again where it's like, we don't have the same access to like being able to monetize our content as white creators do in these spaces. You know, we don't get the $65,000 for an Instagram ad post. You know, we're just hoping on a prayer that, you know, we can fit this in with our regular work schedules. And there are so many creators out there that are doing that same thing. So paying Black creators for their work, I think, is very vital. to, like, expanding the opportunities everyone has access to.

Wow. Thank you. I appreciate you both so much. Good luck with everything that you're going to accomplish. Now, you know, obviously you'll still remain friends and go on your separate career paths. And I just think, you know, change like we've talked about at the beginning. It's scary, but it's necessary. So thank you so much. And thank you for everything that you do.

And can't wait to have you back for a recap. I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now ending. Thanks for joining us for this week's Grape Therapy. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow on your favorite podcast platform. And tune in Thursday for your next session. I just casually looked towards a canal and I saw what I thought was a mannequin. August 2nd, 1998, the body of a brilliant young scientist

is found dead near the campus of Georgetown University. It was a gruesome scene. Walking up to the body, it became apparent that there had been a sexual assault. For more than six years, D.C. police had no leads and no suspects. Then another disturbing discovery. She wasn't his only victim. As these cases went on, the more the victims resisted, the more violent he became. One man committing a series of heinous crimes against women, but then he just stops.

Ten years go by, then 20. What would it take to finally crack the case wide open? I'm Paul Wagner. Join me for Unknown Subject. Season 3 of WTOP's American Nightmare podcast series, available October 4th on all podcast platforms. All this month, celebrate Hispanic Heritage Month with Pluto TV. Watch movies like Compadres in the Spy Kids trilogy

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