Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Grape Therapy: The WTF Bachelorette(s) Finale with Catherine Lowe

Episode Date: September 22, 2022

The studio is a full house today as Kaitlyn is joined by co-host Lo VonRumpf and the beloved Catherine (Giudici) Lowe, who just this week celebrated ten years with her Bachelor, Sean! There is plenty to catch up on and dive into as the three discuss what life looks like now for Catherine & Sean as well as what we saw on our screens this week during After the Final Rose. Kaitlyn and Catherine both attended the finale live and have plenty to say when it comes to the final men of this season, both of whom were deservedly in the hot seat. They also talk about what was missed in the finale and what the franchise can do moving forward in terms of casting. Catherine looks back on the hardest time of her relationship with Sean after coming off the show and gives her take on our next lead, Zach. Don’t miss part two next week as Sean Lowe joins the crew with his dad jokes and hot takes!  Thank you to our sponsors! Check out these deals for the Vinos: PRIMAL KITCHEN - Find Primal Kitchen in your local grocery store or visit Primalkitchen.com/offthevine to get 20% off your order!  PROGRESSIVE - Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 27 million drivers who trust Progressive. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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cooking game like I have, go find Primal Kitchen in your local grocery store or visitprimalcitchen.com slash off the vine to get 20% off your order. And Progressive. Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 27 million drivers who trust Progressive. It's time for Off the Vine Grape Therapy. Welcome to your weekly session. Caitlin and friends are here to share unfiltered advice, lots of laughs, and some major breakthroughs. So put your feet up, pop a cork, and get ready for some grape therapy. Oh, ice are guys.

Oh, we have ice. Yay. It's like Sangria time. Oh, sangria. A little Wednesday. Here we go. Thank you. So much.

Oh, delicious. That's perfect. I love ice. Okay. It sounds good. I think it sounds good. Really? Okay.

Well, everyone. It's cool. People on the ASMR train. Yeah. They might be hearing us. Should be whispering the whole time. So last night I was staying with Little Judy. That's what he calls me.

Oh, it's what I call it. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, sad. After her, the late great. Have you seen the movie Judy? Yes. Oh, okay, so booze and barbitchewitz, and she was a performer, an incredible performer.

But anyway, I was saying in your room last night, and I was, the bed's very comfortable, and just about to pass out. And I wanted to stay the night because I knew we're going to podcast today. And I opted not to because it was a nice, comfortable, like 78 degrees. And that, it's so warm. It was like a sweat lodge. I'm sweating my tits off. And I thought, you know what? I can't do it.

So I just, I live very close. I just walked home, three o'clock in the morning. Why didn't you Uber? I was kind of Uber, but I was like, you know what? I'm going to get some steps in and just cool off for a stack. It's dangerous out there. It's not. Oh, I thought it was.

It is. Well, I have a taser and a knife. Oh, yes, not dangerous. Yeah, I was walking with both of those. Yeah, you almost tasered me one time. I did. Yeah. Trying to protect her.

Yeah, he was just showing me that he had a taser to protect it. And I got so scared. And I was, you know, giving her a little demonstration. And she was like, oh, my God, just because it was close to her pet. Oh, my God. You could have killed me. Hurt you. Hurt you, not kill you.

Anyways. But you like it more. I do. I like it really to be in a little cocoon of warmth. Yeah. I just, I like being cozy. Is that, I think, I don't know if that's good for your health, though. Really?

I think it's better for your system if it's cold. And it's better for your skin if it's cold. I disagree with all of you. It's scientifically. proven, but okay. Germans don't use air conditioning because it's not good for your health. Really? Yes, there's no AC there.

And maybe in Europe in general, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, like, if you ordered, say you ordered a vodka soda, they'd put like one ice cube in it. Oh, miserable. Oh, yeah. It's bizarre, but they are the healthiest. Cheers, everybody. We're not healthy with all of our eyes.

We, you know what? So you, oh, that's a sad. It does sound nice. You know what? I see rosé. People sometimes think that's not classy, but my wine is great wine without the rules. That could go on the Spade and Sparrow's Instagram. I like that.

Yeah. Oh, that's nice. I love my rosé. I'm just going to tune my own horn here for a second, but it's really low sugar and low alcohol. So you don't really get hungover. You don't get like all crazy drunk. Like it's just a nice rosé. It's a nice body.

Hi. Welcome to the podcast, Catherine. Welcome. It's just like a fun little shit show where you never know what direction it's going to go. I figure. I figure I'm trying to be on my game right now. I mean, you know me. So you probably expected to this. You probably expect this. I have my notes printed today, which I always feel like a little news anchor.

Like today on the pod. She's professional. What is that TikTok trend that's going around? It goes, in news today or something, everything is awful. That's the TikTok. Anyways, so excited to have you on the podcast. Have you ever been on my podcast? Yes, I have not. Yes, I have. Yes, I have. On Zoom. Yes. But it was a long time ago. And it was just you, right? Yeah. It was a cool background. You had like the black wallpaper thing. Yeah. That's my little ladies lounge. Yeah, I like that off the vine headquarters. We were both at the Bachelorette finale last night. A lot of thoughts. A lot happened. I was kind of glad we were in the audience, though. That was a good one to be in. It really was because I've, you know, been in that studio. You've been in that studio. We know how those shows usually go. And this was just not your typical.

finale and there's so much just like chaos yeah and it was so entertaining they always say it's dramatic but this one was for real dramatic this one was for a lot of turns twist turns lefts rights ups and downs peaks and valleys it was a lot it was crazy it was it was crazy low you missed out did you watch it at least on tv i did i wanted to see your outfit yeah you got you got you got way more than we bargained for. I was there for the fashion and stayed for the drama. There's a lot happening. And I didn't even watch the show. Yeah, but you were invested on that yesterday. I was there at the after show, which was held at the hotel that you guys were all staying at. After party. That should have been filmed. I was definitely caught up on the whole season. I was like, oh, shit went down. Yeah. There's a lot to unpack here. And probably the last season, because the girls were on the season prior. Yes. Oh, my gosh. They've been through all. They've been through all. lot those calls and the families the families is always what breaks my heart because we always say like we sign up for it the families don't and then they get so involved and then people are awful to them on you know and poor rachel's mom is just like i and my mom said it before she she goes there needs to be a support group for the families because it's just a lot on them and poor rachel's mom like sees all this stuff like she was completely in my opinion she was being what does guess lit, is that how you would say it? In my opinion, during that, not the, on the couch, but yeah, on camera. And Rachel's mom reads stuff online and people are just standing up for Tino

like you wouldn't believe. Like I said something like, oh, you know, I'm going to come after. I'm like, I'll meet him out back and punch you in the dick. I don't know. And people were like, oh my gosh, Rachel is so manipulative. And Tino didn't deserve that. And I was like, What? What? Are we both, are we all watching the same show here? What would the, okay, sorry, I have to go off my notes. I'm jumping too much ahead. Um, how's the family? We'll get into, okay, that's my teaser. We'll get into all of that very shortly. Yeah. But first, how, truly. How you do it? Yeah. Lovely and pink today. How's the family. Yeah. You looked so cute and you looked so good last night. I loved your outfit. So you and Sean,

came out here to be a part of the finale. You got to have a couple days, just the two of you. When's the last time you've done that? Well, we actually prioritize that sometimes. We like being, like, our happy places at home and watching whatever series we're on and putting the kids down at seven and just having our night. Yeah. Seven. Oh, that's nice.

Yeah. I know. It's like, what's the earliest that's appropriate? Yeah, seven. You're like, any earlier, you're kind of weird. 630 is still like dinner time. Seven's like, that's appropriate. Yeah.

They're on 5.30, she's like, it's almost time for bed. And I'm just bringing it up every. No, but we love getting to go and do this. I mean, we lived here for a little bit. And so it's just nostalgic and fun. And, you know, being around the energy that was last night was really fun. Yeah. Yeah.

I know it's when you're so removed from like it actually being about you, you know what I mean? It's, it is fun. Yes, because you're not stressed. Yeah. You're like, I have nothing, you know, I'm just. going to be here to support whoever and have a good time. Yeah. Yeah, we were definitely not stressed last night. Where do you guys live now? Dallas, which is where he's from. Oh, Dallas, Texas. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you're from originally Seattle? Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Um, do. Um, do you

miss Seattle. I love Seattle. I do. I go back there probably twice a year. Yeah. And I love it. Because your crown still there? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And just I love being over there mountains and water. I mean, there's a lot to do there. And I just, I'm a huge prideful Seattle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go see hucks. Go Seahawks still, even though... Really? Over the Cowboys. Oh, for sure. Sean Lowe has never been a fan of the Cowboys. Oh, he's his team. He likes Tom Brady, but now it's like a whole thing.

He just enjoys the sport. He loves NFL, so he'll just, he just likes watching Red Zone, which is, like, really annoying. I know. I'm like, you can't... Red Zone's like when you're almost at the goal line. Like, every game, they'll change the game if you're close to making a score. And there's, like, four different games goals. on on your screen.

And there's the same announcers doing it for like five hours. And you're like, how does he pee? How does he? All I'm thinking about is like, how does this guy pee? Because he's saying it as it's happening. I'm like, he has like a diaper on or something. I'm always trying to envision that. But I'd rather like watch one game at a time if I'm going to watch it.

And now I'm like, whatever. I don't care. It's on. Oh, that's so interesting. I thought for sure he would be a diehard Cowboys fan. He, I think, I don't know. He just never really liked how insane they were. And just like they're diehard people over there.

Try being a Bill's fan. Like, they're intense. Cowboy fans. Yeah. Nobody is more intense than a Bill's fan. Yeah, I could probably see that, though. Because of the type of person that's on the East Coast is, yes, I heard. Jason and your husband watching a game together.

Oh, if it was, oh, yeah. Well, I feel like, Jason would probably be really excitable, right? Oh, yeah. Sean Lowe wants to hear every single thing. Oh, yeah. That's like, quiet. I pictured that. When you said that, I was picturing it, and I pictured Sean just being, like, super quiet,

just paying attention to like the game and what's happening and like strategizing in his head what he would have done and then Jason's literally like crushing beer camps on his head after he shot guns and like jumping on the couch it's a lot I always love that's fun though that's like what you expect out of a season if you go to a party I would rather see that I just always find it weird that it's a bunch of grown adults like behaving like buffoons for like a bunch of other grown adults just doing their job like I don't know I feel that way about all sports so like hockey fans. Fans, football fans, like, we just turn into these weird animals when we get into, like, an arena. But we could say the real, I mean, real housewives. We could say that. That's true. The guys can say that about the girls. Like, why are you so invested in this person's drama? It's so exciting.

When we do, I love watching that. When we do calls with distributors for wine buyers and stuff, and we're trying to explain because it's a bunch of older men like that do the wine buying and who are running these, you know, places. And so we're trying to explain, you know, like the feed. male millennial right now and like what they're like and what they're looking for. And we're like, yeah. So I was on the show called The Bachelorette. It's like a Super Bowl for women. That is how we describe it. It really is. Are your kids into sports? Because Samuel just started played soccer, didn't you? He just started. I was, I played since I was three or four. And so I don't

know why. I'm a, I'm a bad coach. But I like, even teaching him anything, I'm like, how do you not know how to play. It's like day two. I'm like, what are you doing out there? Why do you, you know, go? So, I'm not good. Yeah. But our second who is now done t-ball and soccer is very athletic and naturally so. And so I was expecting that from our oldest. Yeah. And he's just very cerebral. I think he'll get there with the right actually explaining the game to him. Giving him a chance. Yeah, totally my bad. I'm like, this is a ball. Yeah. That's it. Go. But yeah, Yeah, he'll be fine. I think he wants to play football soon, which is very big.

Yeah. American football. Yeah, not football. Football? But he does play football. Oh, okay. He does? Or he stands there in the soccer.

Yeah. With the jersey. It's so cute when you go to the kids games. I love it. It is, the parents get right into it too. Yeah. I get it because you're just like, it's exciting again. Yeah.

And it's your little kid like, and you're like, come on, get it. I know. Everyone's shrieking. I'm usually the one where I'm like, be quiet. you're so annoying and no one cares like quiet it's funny because somebody said oh christen cavillary said the other day on a podcast like she said nobody cares about your kids as much as you do but i disagree you're a really good auntie i love kids so much i want to see people's kids i want to see people's babies when you post about your kids i'm like oh they're the best like i love it i love seeing other

kids that's good that's sweet because most people it's like okay if it's not my kid yeah like just Oh, I just love a kid. I think they're just the best. Kids and old people. Like, I cried over Grandpa John eating a burger at the bar last night. He's like, I'm just trying to eat my burger. Yeah, he was literally just having a beer and a burger. You're just crying at him.

What is going on with this girl? I honestly was staring at him and shed a tear. I'm not even kidding. I liked your shoulder thing last night that you did. That was very cute. That was very cute. Do you see that? Counting shoulders.

Do you follow me on Instagram? I said, hey, Grandpa John, do you want to count shoulders? And he was like, what? And I said, one, two, three. And then I went four. And I put my arm around on my. Oh, that's cute. He liked it.

He was very cute. Yeah. He was, oh, he's just so adorable. This episode of grape therapy is brought to you by Primal Kitchen. And you guys definitely know by now. Just how crazy I am about all of Primal Kitchen's products. Everything from the avocado oil to their salad dressings to their ketchup. I put ketchup on ketchup.

It's not a t-shirt. It's just delish. And that's, because Primal Kitchen was created to give you more, more flavor, more higher quality ingredients, more easy meals with everyone in your life, which is one of my favorite things. I also feel like my chef game is really improved. I'm telling you, since these products have come into my life, I feel like a real pro in the kitchen. And since it's still nice out, at least over here in Nashville, which means we are still grilling and chinchillin. And my pantry is stocked with primal kitchen

necessities for the ideal cookout, mayo made with avocado oil, ketchup, sauces, condiments made with high quality, delicious ingredients no matter the season. Primal Kitchen makes it so easy to create the most delicious meals made with simple ingredients, and I feel unstoppable anytime I go grab something from my pantry, okay? Go find Primal Kitchen in your local grocery store or visit primalcitchen.com slash off the vine to get 20% off your order. I think I said this on the podcast before. Jason always says you like babies and old people because they can't hurt.

you. Oh, I was like, what? That is deep. Yeah, that really is profound. And also very true. I don't trust anyone. I've been, I've been, I'm jaded. Oh, guys.

Same. I don't trust this stuff. I don't like that. I just started trusting Caitlin about three months ago. It took a lot of therapy. Seriously. I don't think. No, maybe not three months.

No, but it took a bit of time. Oh, no. No. But you're from here? That's why. Well, what's mom from Canada? I know, but you're, you've lived a lot of life since then. I've lived so many different lives, but also I think because I'm Canadian, I just

trusted everyone and I thought everyone had my best interest and like everyone's just doing and everyone has hurt me. Yeah, I don't like hearing that. She's been dragged. Same. So I think that actually a little trauma bond. Yeah, a little trauma bond. Because I was like, I've been royally.

We're like, yeah, it's great. I've royally. I've roiled over by a lot of people as of you. And so then it's like, well, I'm never. going to do that to you. And it's almost, I don't know, it built a trust there. Oh my God, it is a trauma bond. Should we see a therapist together? Do we do couples therapy? That would be cute. That would be very cute. Have a therapist on your podcast. Oh, I have. Oh, okay. And I'm having another one actually. We're recording one with another therapist. I always wanted to bring my therapist on, but I think that's like a breach of

contact. She's just like talking about my, I don't know. I don't know. She was like, I don't think I can do that. Are you very trusting? Yeah. Oh, you are? I am. So if you meet some. somebody, you'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Yes. And just trust them until proven otherwise. Right. But I think you can already kind of tell. Usually you can tell how much you bring the wall down.

That's true. But for the most part, I think so. But I did live here. And so I see why you wouldn't be fully trusting. And especially in the entertainment world. I mean, I know all like corporate America are like certain businesses. Everyone has their like slimy stuff that goes on. But the entertainment business is just so cutthroat.

And this is, I was listening to this song. by Amos Lee. Maybe it's pronounced Amos. Amos? Is it? Is it? Like famous amos

cookies? Yeah. But he sings the song called soul suckers. And it's pretty much about like Hollywood. And it's saying like, did you really believe them

when they told you they discovered you? And they like say like after they sucked all your soul and then that's when they disappear. Because they use you and they abuse you. And you were good for this.

And then they send you off. And Bachelor does it for some people. They chew you up and they spit you out and then it's on to the next. Like I'll never forget feeling like everybody was my family. And then Jojo became the Bachelorette. And I was in the mansion with her. And I was like, holy shit. I am yesterday's trash.

New phone. Who des? Yeah. I was like, okay. But then fast forward. Now I feel like they treat me like family again. Yeah. Yeah.

But it's I bring this up because you have been in this franchise for 10 years. You met Sean 10 years ago. This week. This week. Oh, happy anniversary. Thank you. That is, it just blows my mind because, you know, we were talking about, or they were talking about this last night to Gabby and Eric. It's hard.

It's so hard to come off that show and build trust and have a solid foundation and build a really healthy relationship after that show because you're supposed to build a relationship on trust and like that you're the only one for that. But they're, like, going through all these women and men to, like, find the right one. Did you guys, like, from after you went off the show, 10 years ago, that's so crazy. When you got off the show, what kind of, like, ups and downs did you go through? Oh, so many. Yeah, because he went straight to dancing with the stars, too. Yeah. Which you're just trying to get to know this person.

You barely know them. Yeah, I know. Eric actually said something that I think was an inside, not an inside joke, but it was real. And nobody really knew it. He was like, can I have your number now? Yeah. And that's really, you don't have. have someone's number that you're falling in love with you have a ring on your finger you've

committed your life to them you don't even have their number so it's just like this backwards reality because you don't have your phone the entire season you don't have your phone you can't text anybody and so that's he said it as not a joke because it's real and so that was how you've done all these really romantic things and you've gotten to know each other on like non-negotiable levels where it's really these important things that matter in the long term you'd have no clue what the daily looks like with that person. So 100%, so many growing pains. The worst time in my life was pretty much right after the show until the ending of Dancing with the Stars. Wow. Because you're, again, like I have, I'm now friends with PETA. Yeah. But at the time, it was the

hardest relationship I could ever, the first ever interview I ever had, which is on Good Morning America. I was so excited to hold his hand in public. She was on the other side of him. And so I was like, and we were all wearing purple for some reason that day. And I had never met her before. And I was like, just had to instantly not like her because I was always lumped in with her. I was not even a day's news because it was now that he was on dance with stars with her. Yeah. Pleasant, lovely woman. Right? In any other circumstance, we'd be very close friends. But it was in that, in those times of challenge and complete neglect that I felt that I was like, I'm alone. I'm alone again. And I moved here to be with him. And you know how grueling the days are.

Oh, it's great. You don't even, you probably didn't see him. And when he's home, he probably wanted to just freaking sleep. Yeah. But no. Of course, I'm like, let's go. Let's talk about real things. He's like, I'm tired. Yeah. And of course, it's just, that's why it rarely works with the show because they set you up for failure. Totally. And they know that. But they don't, you know, especially going on Dancing with Stars right after. That's why I think they've not let people go on. That's why they didn't let me. Well, there's a couple people, I'm sure, that were probably denied. Yeah.

Or, like, coaxed not to or not given a contract or whatever. Yeah. Because they've had so many failings. Yeah. I thought Gabby and Eric weren't together. That's exactly what I thought. Yeah. I thought there's no way.

She's going on down with the stars. They're not together. That's why this is going to work. Okay. But it's also easier I've found where the female has chosen the male for a ton, tons of different reasons. But, yeah. So I think they'll be fine. Yeah.

I think they'll have a great time. He seems very secure, so, but I was not. I was the opposite. But I wouldn't have been secure. Like, I always think about, like, trying to flip-flop it where if Sean was the bachelor, like Sean Booth, if he was the bachelor, and then I was the one. And then if he would have went and done dancing with the stars, because you don't feel chosen by this person for the whole amount of time you're getting to know them. You're like, you don't feel chosen until the very end. And then you're still like, was I just the best option?

option here or do you really love me? Is this really going to work? And then to jump into dance with the stars where he probably had a closer relationship with PETA because he probably spent more time with her than he ever has with you. Right. And they're dancing and having fun and they're more in the sensual, very intimate. Very intimate. And I'm like, wait, I'm clapping for you guys doing something on stage that I'm not, you know what I mean? Like it was, right? And I'm like the pious one that can't. You know what I mean? So it was, I was like, you know, I was like, you know, I. I have my stuff up to here, and I'm like, yay, kiss her. Yeah.

Like, no, of course not. And so, and he, you know, he had a brother-sister relationship, but it doesn't matter. If you see someone with your partner in that way where I'm like, I already passed that test. Totally. Why are we here again? I just did that. Yeah. But, of course, when you go through those things and I've, you know, I was like, I'm leaving so many times during that process.

But of course, when we stuck it out, it was meant to be. But once I explained to him. I'm like, you know this is weird, right? Like, you know, leaving me for 13 hours a day to sensually dance with a half-naked woman who's hot. It's hot. Like, me being like, oh, yeah. Oh, I'm okay. I can't wait to have you home.

Oh, thank you for coming back. No, no, I was, I definitely gave him. And he knows how to communicate that now. And he is very respectful. I think it's just dudes, right? He's a dude. Yeah. So.

And he had just come off. Like, you're in a weird bubble when you come off that show where you, especially as the lead, you kind of feel like you're God's gift to the earth. Like, because you've been put on this, right, right. They treat you, they give you all the things that you need. What do you want? Let's do this. What do you want to do? Yeah. And then, and then you're put on this pedestal where everybody's like, I want to be with you. And so you kind of like get in this headspace where you're like, and I always remember this one story and I've told it on the podcast. So I'm sorry listeners that I'm repeating myself again. But I came out to show and I was

laying on the couch and I was so depressed because I was like just went through this whirlwind and then I'm like, what is my life? And I'm laying there on the couch and it was 10 a.m. And I said, mom, can you get me a glass of wine? And she was like, it's 10 a.m. And get it just used to be like, right, right. Catered to. And everyone does things for you. Yeah. You just live, you get used to this weird reality that is like not real, obviously. And it just, it takes a a long time to come out of it, especially with somebody, like, and just now, like the show now compared to what it was 10 years ago, I just feel like it's gotten harder for people to have a successful relationship out of it. There's so much more, I don't know, like, politics and like the social media fame and like everything that it is now. I don't know.

Do you think there's a way that the show can go back to like the like sweet? Well, not that it was all sweet, but there's a lot of drama always. But like, do you think you can ever be what it was? No. No chance in hell. But I think that they're trying to do a good job of adapting to what people want. Yeah. They're really trying, I think.

Yeah. I think that there's also just things that, like I've said in the past about diversity on the show. Yeah. I think a lot of it, they're trying to cast people and they're putting people in spots. I felt like I was a person. I was not meant to be for Sean Lowe. Right. You know, I was just a girl who was ethnic and, you know, filled a spot, which I was.

was fine to do that. Because I was proud of who I was. Totally. You know, if people want to see representation, I'm so happy to be part of that. But if the lead isn't genuinely interested in someone of color, then you're now giving these girls or these guys just a moment and not showing how dynamic they are, how strong they are, their stories. You're not telling their stories because of who you've cast as the lead. They're just checking a box. Right. And so I don't think it's their fault, but they have to do the due diligence. of saying, okay, one of the factors of the lead is that they do like people of color, people that look different, people that have different experiences.

Because I'm sure that the leads that they choose, which there's so many factors that goes into choosing a lead. Gosh. So many. And that would be really, really hard to really know if they are. You wouldn't think so based on their next lead. Because you can be like, oh, anybody. But can't they, I mean, now they can look back at, like, historically, like, who did they date?

And that's what I'm saying, like making sure, because you can just say it. Totally. But you have to do the due diligence of checking, like, were you really? Because you can say that. Yeah. This episode of grape therapy is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, most of you listening right now, you're probably multitasking, you little go-getters you. While you're listening to me talk, you're probably driving, cleaning, exercising, grocery shopping, just chilling.

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address that and talk about it and kind of let Eric actually take accountability and instead of, you know, hiding behind his Instagram post that he did actually prove like that he is working on it, that he wants to address it. I wanted him to say it. And even if he was produced not to, I don't know the answer to that. I really don't. He could have used that opportunity on live television to be like I actually do want to address this like I know there's the text messages and we can talk about that for 30 seconds but let me have 30 seconds to say this and I don't want to speak for Michelle but I will say she was super upset about it and it just felt like another missed opportunity for them to show that they are listening right right

I hear you for sure and it just it pissed me off and I hated seeing Michelle upset and again I don't want to speak for her but I also want to to stand up for her right because she was clearly upset last night and I was like yeah rightfully so and you know people are so afraid of the higher ups at that franchise but Becca and I kind of like wanted to be an ally so we we walk straight up to the creator the whole show and he was like I thought it was great and we're like yeah it was entertaining it was great but here's where we dropped the ball right and this is what we thought we were here for this and it just it was just like, of course. Oh, they didn't have time for it, but you had time to set up flowers for

Zach's stupid meeting the five girls, who he genuinely did not seem interested in at all. That was hard. That was a rough. With the side hugs. It was so rough. But I did want to say one thing because the black charlorets on Instagram, I love following them. And they posted that Rachel Lindsay said, as sure as there will be roses, there will be racism. And it's just, you know, to Michelle, she committed to being the lead with the promise of there being a change and she wanted to be part of that change and it was like a it was just like a slap in her face last night to not let her have her voice heard or for us to you know

have a voice too i just thought anyways and so these this post i just loved it because um they kind of share their opinions on all of that and and it's they it's beautifully said they prove their point and they're like we know you hear us like right right The fact that, you know, and they voted last night for who gets the first impression rose. Vote for who is the bachelor. Because I want to know, you know, you said there's so much thought process that goes into picking a lead. What was their thought process was Zach? Now, I'm not saying he's a piece of shit.

No, he seems very nice. Yeah. Yeah, the family guy totally seems nice. For sure. What's he do? Does he have a job? I don't know. I remember it.

Yeah. He's 205. I don't know. Got it. That's what I did when I was 25. I don't know I actually don't know what he's influencing yeah no he has a job there's title but I can't remember I can't remember either yeah which just goes to show how little we know about this next that's going to be the bachelor I know it was hard to have that many people on it and really feel

invested in their relationship yeah yeah I don't know I don't think they're going to do that again I don't think so either guys and girls no I don't think it was very hard to be invested but what like with Zach I'm like did when they're in those meetings and saying you know like who's the next lead. I'm like, are they like, ooh, Zach wants to play the game and we could easily get him to do whatever, you know, or are they like- He does seem very innocent. Yes. Very, he's so innocent. Sweet, sweet, for sure. But I mean, if Avan didn't come out and do that thing with Rachel, which we and I were both like, this is the best. I was like, this is amazing. This is the coolest moment. Oh, God, I have so many, like, thoughts going through my brain. What did you think of

that happening in front of Tino? Do you think that was? too much because Ashley I tweeted like I didn't like how that happened like as much as Tino is a shitty for cheating that was like a moment where like he didn't have to be like thrown off right right right I think it was a little aggressive it was yeah I didn't even know I thought that Tino wasn't going to be there and Sean was like for sure contractually he needs to be there but it didn't if he didn't really have anything profound to say I don't think he should have been there it already spoke for it and if she was up there by herself saying we're not there anymore. we're not together anymore. That would have been everybody would have totally been fine with Avan coming in, sitting down with her. Totally. You know, I feel like that would have been a more respectable situation. Because Tino, we're basically all kicking him while he's down.

Yeah, he's definitely getting it right now. And he did not seem well. And as much as I'm like so angry watching the way he handled that situation and people are like, oh, Rachel's so spoiled. And I couldn't believe Twitter is going off on me. Let me just read you a couple. I hope she's not listening to this because I don't want to, like, say the mean, Rachel, if you're listening, you're probably not. You're probably so busy and you don't listen off the vine. But skip over this part. But this is what, so when I tweeted like hold me back, like basically I'll see Tino out back and I'm going to, you know, anyway, so I tweeted that and somebody said, talking about me, Becca and Michelle, getting advice from the three who aren't married. That's not a great idea. Tino made a mistake. Apologized. And Rachel just kept wanting more.

He dodged a bullet. And this is a lot of the tweets I'm getting. Caitlin encourages her lying behavior. She's just another kook. I love that word kook. I think it's cute, but she's not using it. A little Canadian kook. She did.

She's a little kooky kook. That's cute. That's a cute thing. So she used it. Oh, thank you. Grandma Gale. That's her Twitter name. Oh, she's probably using it derogatorily.

Yes. And then Rachel said she could. couldn't wear the ring. Why doesn't she get any crap for acting like a 12-year-old? She wasn't ready for him. Like, no, I couldn't believe the people standing up for Tino on my Twitter. Right, right. I think that Tino has definitely gotten a lot, maybe more than, you know.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. But that breakup and that conversation was so genuine. That's something that I would have 100% had with a partner who was trying to navigate his conversation. Yeah. Now, do I think his.

Delivery was the worst part of it. Absolutely. That was what she had the worst problem with. Right. I think if he came in and did it a little bit differently and definitely more apologetic and sincerely apologetic, then they would probably maybe be together still. Yeah, I agree. So, but all the things around it was so interesting that he decided to say it like this. And maybe it was because he was really nervous and he, he overstepped what he thought he would, you know, he brought his journal and he was like, came in real hot. but he didn't, I think he wanted him to have it. Yeah. But he came in because he's so nervous and all this, you know, people are here. I would never want somebody filming my breakup. Absolutely not.

So that's why he was probably like really nervous and really uncomfortable and said all the wrong things. But then he brings up points where it's like, no, that happened without the cameras too. Right. So where can you defend. That's where I'm like, I know obviously there's, I always say three sides to every story. There's Rachel's side. There's his side, Tino side. And then there's the truth.

And I want to know, like, what the context was, like, what gave him, in his head, the permission to be like, well, I'm going to make out with this girl because things are obviously over with, like, what happened? And she didn't, remember she was sitting there saying like, I'm not going to say it. And we both know. And it was. And I was like, what was that? Right. Because everything was filmed. Yeah. And everything was public territory, which I totally agree.

Yeah. there are things that are private that, like, I don't want things that are private to be public. Yeah. But I just feel like it was. He handled it so far. Right. And, like, for me, if I'm really mad and I say something that I probably don't mean in the moment, if we're having a heat of conversation, you're not going to take that for truth. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tomorrow if I say it and I'm being very, like, calm and peace, then you know what means, for real. But if I say, I'm going to throw the ring out, which I probably have said to my husband. Totally. Like, he does it. He's not like, oh, okay, that's me. I'm going to go and make out with this girl. Like that is not that, no. Right.

And there is a very short time. Like for The Bachelor, it's four months. Yeah. If it's the same timing schedule. Yeah. Four months in between when you're done filming and when you're done with the show. Right. And when it's done airing.

But he had two months. Yeah. That is really tight. Yeah. That's really short. That's really short. And in that time, like, if they were like as, you know, even if he was saying, like, I want to get through anything with you and blah, blah, but I was like, like, what was obviously not worth

it to go make out with that girl? Like, why? Right. Right. Like, he just shouldn't. And he knew, he said he knew that. Yeah. But it was the delivery that was so poor where you're like, in a circumstance where we're married and you actually have a very, very bad mistake and we should be going through this mistake is only if you're very apologetic and you understand you have empathy for my situation. Yeah. Like, he didn't. No. So that definitely bodes not well for what they could have gone in the future. So maybe that's, you know. I think at the end of the day, he's still a little baby back bitch.

That's what, what wasn't it, Ethan, that's what Ethan called him. Oh, I remember. But that wasn't with Tino. It wasn't? Was it? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Tito. Really? Oh, right, because he was, yes, I remember that.

Yeah, he was out back, howding about something. It was hilarious. Everyone wanted Ethan for Bachelor. What, that was, again, another missed opportunity. Wait, Ethan or Tyler? Ethan. Oh, Ethan. He's so funny and he's so cute.

He did say that. Now I say, yes, for sure. Oh, that would have been a good one. It would have been a great one. I know. We just didn't see enough of him. Well, we didn't see enough of Zadai. We didn't really see anything of a lot of people.

We didn't see enough of Zach. I also. Or even Eric. Because it was just the dynamic of how they put the show. But I also look at the numbers like Jason. I'm clearly engaged to Jason Tardick because all of a sudden I'm like a numbers guy. Yeah. Check the analytics.

Here we go. So Avin, for example, would have been just an incredible, even though I'm a little mad at him right now because he was supposed to podcast with me today and he bailed. It's okay. Unless you're hanging. Yeah, but that's okay. I get it. You're whirlwind. But Avan, okay, let's see.

He would have been such a good bachelor. He has 78,000 dollars. This is also crazy that the numbers thing, people are coming on for like this social media fame, but it's really actually not going the way that I think they all hope. but Avan would have been an incredible bachelor, $78,000. Zach, even after being announced as the bachelor, and again, I'm not saying this is popularity thing. I'm saying it as a numbers thing for, like, the show to think about with promoting and getting viewers.

Zach has $47,000. Sean Lowe is in the house. You can come in. Oh, I love when he surprises me. Okay, we're going to cut off this conversation here, but not for long because Sean. John Lowe is going to join us in the studio. Favorite Bachelor.

Of all time. Love him. That's one of the only seasons I've actually watched part of. I would put him on my Mount Rushmore of Bachelors. Wow. Yeah. He's top five. Three, top three.

Okay. Two. Top two. I don't even know how many faces are on Mount Rushmore. Oh, there's four. Yeah, there's four faces on Mount Rushmore. The Canadian schools. He's in my top.

I've been to Mount Rushmore twice. It's so weird. I don't get it. But anyways, so everybody just make sure you, tune in for the second part that will come out. Yeah. Because it's, I mean, we already regarded it. We could say it's just funny.

Yeah. It's just so good. He's just, he makes me laugh. And he has a great voices. Hello, I'm here. He's a great presence. Him and Catherine both have just good presences. Yeah.

Is that a thing? Presences. I think it's, is that a word presences. Their presences are very positive and strong. Yeah, they were great in the studio. I love them. I love them. James.

Yeah, they're great. All right. Can't wait for next week's episode. It's going to be so good. Let's go get some sushi. I'm done. I'm Caitlin Bristow. And I'm low.

And we'll see you next Tuesday. On Thursday. See Thursday. On off the fine. Yes, that's perfect night. Thanks for joining us. for this week's grape therapy.

Don't forget to rate, review, and follow on your favorite podcast platform. And tune in Thursday for your next session.

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