Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Grape Therapy: Vienna Pharaon

Episode Date: April 2, 2020

Kaitlyn’s guest for Grape Therapy this week is licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Vienna Pharaon! The last time the two spoke, Kaitlyn was single so this time around she gets important and meaningful advice that she can bring into her own relationship with Jason. Vienna shares with us how to prepare for a new relationship, dealing with dating anxiety and how to say “no” to others. Later, Vienna answers listener questions.   Visit Vienna Pharaon's website and use code BRISTOWE for $50 off the GTLYW course. ABC’S LISTEN TO YOUR HEART – The Bachelor presents: Listen to Your Heart, 6-episode event starts Monday, April 13 at 8 p.m. ET/PT on ABC  GEICO - Go to geico.com, and in fifteen minutes you could be saving fifteen percent or more on car insurance  THIRDLOVE - Go to Thirdlove.com/VINE now for 15% off todaySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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first purchase podcast one presents off the vine grape therapy kately bristow's going to answer your questions drink to your confessions and hear what you have to say about anything Bachelor. Let's shake it up some more. Here's Caitlin. All right, welcome to grape therapy. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow, and today I am podcasting with a licensed to marriage and family therapist, who I've had the pleasure of speaking to on the pod before, but of course we have so much more to dive into. She has her own practice called Mindful Marriage and Family Therapy, where she treats individuals, couples, and families. She also runs retreats around the world, leads relationship workshops in countless cities and is a go-to source for advice for millennial mothers and so so much more

please welcome back to the podcast vienna farren hi hi how are you i'm great how are you you know what i'm also i'm also i'm you know it always depends on the day today i'm feeling okay today i'm feeling okay day day day today is an okay day um okay so last time you're on the podcast we spoke about a lot about boundaries, which is a topic I find super important to discuss. And since it was around the holidays, we kind of talked a lot about setting boundaries with family. But I wanted to talk about kind of setting boundaries of relationships because, well, this time I'm in one.

It was so funny because I literally said at the end of our last podcast, I hope I'm in a relationship next time we speak so I can dig more into relationships. So here we are. Here we are. That's so funny. We definitely need to do one with Jason, too, because I would love to do like a couple's one. I was going to ask him to jump on today, but he's got a few phone calls so he couldn't make it. But just a couple questions for you. What are some of the mistakes people make when getting

into a new relationship and setting boundaries? I mean, I think probably in the beginning parts of relationships, we're generally more weak in our boundaries than we are rigid, right? So, you know, when we talk about boundaries, and maybe we talked about this on the last podcast, but, you know, therapists use the terminology, rigid, porous, and healthy when we're talking about boundaries. And so I'd say generally in the beginning parts of relationships, we are pretty porous, or we already have established healthy boundaries in motion. And so what that means is that the openings are there. We sort of do everything in our power to make sure that this relationship is going to last.

We make sure that everything happens to be. okay in the beginning of a relationship. The things that we would ask for, if we were further along, we might not ask for. We become, we're like very much in our heads about making sure that we're presenting ourselves in a way that the other person wants to be around. And so a lot of times when we think about boundaries, if there's something that's being asked, there's an agreement, there's an expectation, there's something that's being put out into the world that we often believe the other person isn't going to want to deal with and isn't going to want to be around us if we ask for something that we think is a little bit outside of this like intro bubble

of what's acceptable in the beginning of a relationship. So I do think that at the start point, we are generally quite porous when it comes to honoring what it is that we need to make sure that we're not abandoning ourselves in relationship. Yeah, absolutely. What are some good questions to ask yourself and boundaries to set up for yourself when you do head into a new relationship? I think it's what our work is to become observers of ourselves and to see when we are exiting ourselves in order to maintain a relationship. And so I love this thought of like, what am I trading right now in order to keep attachment, in order to keep connection? And when we can start to observe ourselves in that space, like, am I saying something's okay when it's not really

okay? Am I not saying something's not okay when it is? Like, how am I shutting down in my communication? We tend, as human beings, we tend to trade in our authenticity for connection, right? It means that we step outside of what is honorable to us in order to keep a relationship, in order to be quote unquote loved or chosen or wanted, right? And so I think that that prompt is a really powerful one. It's like, am I trading something right now in order to keep this? But is there something that I'm muting within myself that I would actually want to say? And when we, when we can start to ask those questions and dive in a little bit deeper, I think we'll get transparent with ourselves and hopefully we can be honest with ourselves and not manipulative. But if we are

honest and transparent with ourselves, we're probably going to gain a little bit of clarity here in knowing where it is we're headed. This part is really important, obviously as a from a marriage and family therapist. They talk a lot about family systems and our origin stories, right, like how we learn how to interact with other people. That is generated from growing up in a family system. And so as children, we are often trading authenticity for attachment. We just want to be loved. We just want to be chosen. We just want to be safe. We just want to be secure. What do I need to do in order to get that from you, mom, or you, dad, or whomever? And so a lot of times that comes along in our romantic relationships.

We are programmed and conditioned to abandon ourselves sometimes in order to have love or quote-unquote love, right? What we think, what we deem love to be. Maybe that's attention. Maybe that's some form of affection. Maybe that's someone who just wants to see us. Yeah, that's so true. I sometimes can see like my childlike behavior coming through in relationships. like totally, totally based on how I used to deal with it, like, in my family, like, growing up.

And it's so interesting because, I mean, you're past in your family. It really influences the person who you are, obviously, and how you act. And so if you're getting into a new relationship, what are some of the things you should ask or look out for so that you can understand where the other person came from? Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously we're all like, when is it too soon to, you know, dive into some of these questions? Yeah, that was going to ask that too. Yeah, it's like, you know, maybe it's, you're not doing a full deep dive, you know, on a first or second date. But I do think we can generally feel into a person and see how open they are. You know, people will talk to you a little bit about growing up and, you know, their family systems or, you know, they'll be able to relate something or show to you that they have, you know, some form of, of awareness just in the way that they speak about other human beings, you know, how they speak about how they handle themselves. their reactivity. And so I do think that when we're paying attention, we can sense whether or not a person is willing to go there. And I think, I think really for quality relationships,

it requires self and relational awareness. And so those questions at some point, right, that it doesn't have to be like too far in. But I think if you have two people who are, you know, fairly self-aware or at least willing to explore, then it's not out of the question to start asking some of those questions, you know, in the first few dates around, oh, like, what was it like growing up? Or, you know, what is the dynamic like with your family now?

Or, you know, like those types of things are not super intrusive, but you will sense if a person, you know, closes it down and it's like, my family's perfect or like, oh, yeah, no, like, no big deal, you know, and like just sort of moves on from it quite quickly. So, you know, it does take practice of going into that space. The more that we do it with ourselves, the more we will be able to recognize it in another person. Like the more that we practice this process of going inwards with ourselves and becoming introspective and curious and, you know, challenging ourselves, then the more we're going to be able to like source it

out in someone else. I remember my process, like when I was dating and like how obvious things became when I started to have more and more clarity on myself. I could see so quickly if a person was blocked and shut off to it. I mean, I'm a therapist too, so that's a little bit. I have a little bit of an advantage there. But, you know, it's still like there's, there is something that you will sense and feel and pick up on in that energy. And so, you know, even just asking or sharing your own stuff as opposed to necessarily asking, right, how somebody responds. to us talking a little bit more personally about our lives will also it'll also share a lot that way.

Yeah, I mean, I am very open about my anxiety and I talk about it a lot on my podcast or just in general. And I feel like it's inevitable that anxiety is going to affect a romantic relationship, you know, at some point. All right. We all know you love The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, and of course, Bachelor in Paradise. Well, Monday, April 13th, the next Bachelor chapter begins. the premiere of The Bachelor Presents

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a six episode event starting on Monday, April 13th, 8.7 Central on ABC. I was wondering what are some of the best ways to prevent anxiety from destroying a relationship? Not that I do that, but like I think some people might, and I have in the past, to be honest with you, or good ways just to communicate with a partner who might not be familiar with what you're experiencing with anxiety-wise, because I know it's so hard to explain to people

who don't suffer from it. Yeah. Right. That's whether it's anxiety, whether it's depression, whether it's any of our trauma or wounding, right? So anybody who's listening to this, right, you might, maybe you don't identify with the anxiety, but you might identify with something else that is a part of your life. that's a part of your story that feels really scary to bring forward in a relationship

because we're not sure of how another person is going to be able to hear it, receive it, what they're going to do with it. You know, you're right, Caitlin, like when people haven't lived through something, sometimes it really is hard to relate. And so the first thing is making sure that the person, you know, Brene Brown always talks about within the context of vulnerability, like that another person needs to have earned the right to hear. hear your story. So it's not about just going to anybody to say like, here's my anxiety or here's my trauma or here, you know, here's the stuff. Take it, hold it, be with it and do something really good with it with me, please. People have to be invested and we have to trust them. And so sometimes we

share it a little bit and we put it out there a little bit to see how a person does with it and receives it. And then we can take it a little bit further. It is really scary, especially when people respond with insensitivity and judgment or they mock it. But generally when we're in loving relationships, you know, a partner is going to be able to sit. And so we have to be in the driver's seat of that. You know, you, you've lived with your anxiety and you have an intimate relationship with it. And you know probably when it pops up and what it does to your physical body and what happens and some of the things that you need in order to restore a sense of balance and groundedness for yourself. You know, if you've lived with it for a long time, you do

probably have tools and techniques and things that you do to be with it and to observe it. And so I think sometimes it's about this, you know, we call it psychoeducation, right, where we're educating a partner about what it's like to be inside our body, right? What it's like to be with this experience that has been held by us, right? So, again, whether it's anxiety or a trauma that we're trying to integrate into our lives. Our job is to try to communicate it so that the other person can get an idea of what it's like to be in our inner world, right? From my perspective, right, both emotionally, physically, spiritually, you know, whatever it is that works for you. This is my experience of it. And so here are some of the

things that help me when I'm in this space. Here's what doesn't help me. Here's what helps me from the perspective of a partner, right? If I'm feeling anxious, some of the things that I might need from you are X, Y, and Z. So I don't know if you've, you know, you've had that conversation with Jason where like, hey, when I'm having, you know, when I'm feeling anxious or I don't know if you have panic attacks, but if I'm having a panic attack, right, like here's what's happening and here's what really is soothing for me or here's something that you can do. a lot of times we stay silent in this space or we have these we call them covert expectations right this this expectation that somebody's going to show up in a certain way but we haven't communicated it to them

we haven't we haven't taught them we haven't designed this co-created this with them in a way for us to like truly show up in that space well together and so if I say hey this is the thing that really works for me or can we try this or let me guide you in that moment to tell you this feels good this doesn't feel good I like this I really hate that like we're going to find a way way to be able to manage and process some of these things that spike for us at any given time. Yeah, because like otherwise, how would they know? I remember having that exact conversation with Jason where I, it was the middle of the night and I was about to, I was like on the verge of having a full blown panic attack. And I, I was like up and down and laying on the floor and then

changing, putting my legs up, trying to lay on a cold floor. And, you know, he's like, are you okay and I'm like no I'm not right now and like what I need is you did not acknowledge me at all like I don't want to be acknowledged because then it like makes me more aware of how bad this is like I like I know it scared him probably because I was clearly not doing well but um like for me personally I need to just have you not even acknowledge pretend like you're not even in the room or I like creates more panic for me totally I mean such great directive and sometimes we don't know that until we have that moment for the first time, right? And listen, that might change in three months from now. You know, like I think part of this is recognizing that there is fluidity. Sometimes something works,

sometimes something doesn't. And we can adjust accordingly. But for now, what you do know is I don't want anybody around. I don't want anybody to touch me. I don't want you to see me. That contributes to the panic and what's going on internally for me. And so, you know, talking about it outside of the moment is important, right? Because sometimes when we're in it, a person's like, okay, I hear that you want me to leave, but you really don't look like you're okay, and I'm really afraid of leaving you, right? And all of those things. And, you know, so I often tell people that when we're observing these moments, whether it's us in conflict, or there's something that's emerging for me internally, or we're talking about my trauma or, you know, whatever it might

be, that we try to do it outside of the moment, right? And that we have some type of very loosely, right some type of plan though that says like this is what it could look like and this is what I know about it and this is what I probably will need from you and just trust me in that space even if I look like I'm not doing okay right exactly we'll be right back with more off the line great therapy from the network that brought you the cold case files podcast comes I survived the classic stories you know with new interviews updating each woman's story with everything that happens after survival. I survived because I convinced him that I was a person. I survived because I was a smarter person than my assailant. I survived because I believe God saved me. Surviving is just the beginning of their story. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

You're listening to Off the Vine Race Therapy. Obviously, we all know that communication is everything in a relationship. Is there such a thing as over communicating? Sure. Yeah. You think so? Yeah. I mean, listen, I, you know, there's a nuance to it, right? So a lot of times I actually tell couples to overcommunicate certain things and become the narrators of their internal world, right? So if we're in conflict and maybe we know the conflict, it's a conflict that we have over and over again, even if the content changes. You know, so we're in conflict and we're trying to move ourselves out of this pattern that we're in. I'll I'll encourage couples to truly narrate this individual experience of like this internal world of so what I'm feeling inside of me right now is defensiveness and I really want to shut down. What I'm feeling inside of me right now is that I want to prove my point and I like want to take you down. You know like you start to over communicate the things that are going on because

they become these openings and and yeah they become these openings in this process that's going on that gives so much more information, oh, so that's what's happening in your inner world. Oh, so that's what's happening in your inner world. And from there, we can often, you know, again, it takes a ton of practice. I am not suggesting that if you narrate your inner world, you are going to move through all of your conflicts successfully right now. But when you begin to over-communicate some of those things, it can be eye-opening and there can be an awakening to like what's actually happening for your partner. Now, when can it be too much? Like, if you keep explaining the same thing over and over and over again, if you need to keep

proving your point over and over and over again, and these things, they're not landing. At some point, we have to recognize that the way in which we're communicating is not working. You know, it's not actually landing. And so if we over-communicate something and we're doing it from a space where the communication isn't working, right? Like, then, yes, like that is going to be problematic. it's oftentimes going to lead to

disconnection. You know, if you have a partner who maybe presents as avoidant or doesn't know how it doesn't have an origin story or a framework of communication, like maybe they grew up in a family system where communication wasn't a priority. Maybe they grew up

in a family system where being and sitting with emotion wasn't a priority and wasn't modeled. And then we're asking them to do that. And then we keep over asking it over and over and over again. You know, we're going to start pushing further and further away without some type of framework that can see the system, right, the system being you and the other person in this example, the system sort of like operating

in the way that it is. Sometimes we need a third person to step in and, you know, point out what we're doing. Yes, I am a big believer in that. I love going to therapy. I made Jason come with me the other day to my therapist in in Nashville and we loved it and we like like like we went in in a good place like we're you know we weren't going because we're like oh gosh we need to you know but it's just good for anyone to obviously go and we absolutely loved it came out of there just feeling so much more connected because even if you're even even if you don't realize you're doing something wrong and just having that third person who is obviously a professional um being able to talk you through things and like dig into the why all right.

you own or rent your own home? Sure you do, and I bet it can be a lot of work. You know what's really easy? Bundling policies with GEICO. GEICO makes it easy to bundle your home owners or renters insurance along with your auto policy. And it's a good thing too because you already have so much to do around your home. Go to GEICO.com, get a quote, and see how much you could save. It's GEICO easy. Visit guyco.com today. That's guyco.com. What are some steps you think people can just take in general to have a healthier relationship with themselves and their partners? Yeah, you know, obviously as a therapist, I do believe in it, especially when you find someone who clicks with you, you know, have somebody who's also observing you. But you're right, there are plenty of constraints around it.

And the truth is, like, we are our own self-healers. I truly believe in that. And we are able to do so much of this without, you know, without that third party present. And so, you know, when we start to journal, when we wake up, you know, a lot of therapists and coaches talk a lot about this practice of becoming conscious, right? Waking up, becoming self-aware, going into like the depths of our own inner worlds. We know ourselves the best. And when we take that seriously, whether it's through journaling or reflection or, you know,

journaling on prompts that people provide. We can get really clear on ourselves and we can start to wake up in a very different way. So like some of the things that I generally offer people is becoming aware of our belief systems, our conditioning and our programming. I am deeply rooted in understanding the family in which we came from. That to me is I don't, I can't do therapy without understanding where a person has come from. It's blinders are on. nothing you know like you there's no dot to connect right and so when we I to me understanding our family system is one of the most important things that we can do understanding the role that we had within that family system understanding the

downloads that we got as we observed and experienced things in in our families that is where we were taught how to be about everything right that is what we observed and of course media and all you know and coaches and teachers like there are plenty of people or collectives, right, community, religion, spirituality, right, all of these things that inform us and we take it. But as kids, we take it and we absorb it. We're not filtration systems as children. We're not like at four years old sort of observing our parents and like, I don't think I like the way that you just, you know, like we might have an intuitive hit on something, but we don't know how to challenge it as kids. And so, you know, as adults, as young

adults, I think that that's the majority of your listener base, that it's our job. It becomes our responsibility to begin to question the things that we originally absorbed. The things that we said, ah, this is mine because dad told me it is. Like, oh, this is who I am because that's what somebody said. This is how I'm supposed to act because that's how somebody told me to act, that this is what it means to be successful because that's what somebody said. All of these things are just thrown on us. And so, you know, if you don't have access to therapy, obviously, we're a little bit locked down right now, whether it's financial constraints, whether it's geographical constraints, whatever it might be, you can absolutely begin to ask yourself,

like, what are the explicit and implicit messages that I received and sort of go down the list of, you know, whether it's about gender, whether it's about communication, conflict, sex, intimacy, you know, education, appearance, religion. and on and on and on, right? Like, that list can really go and start to say, like, what did I observe, right? Like, what did I see? And how did that become a belief system for me? What do I believe today?

And is that actually my belief or is that a belief that I just took from somebody else? Yeah, I've had to do that a lot in my, I mean, I'm sure we all do. But, like, so many times I have even just, I think I told you about this last time was my first boyfriend of like three years in high school and just how he treated. I still to this day believe that that's how somebody's going to treat me again, even though I was, however, like 15 years old at the time. And same thing with like having a divorce, having divorced parents that, you know, somebody's just either going to fall out of love with me or they're going to treat me like crap.

And I've had to like really go through each relationship and learn so many things from that. And but still, I still to this day have dreams that Jason. is treating me the same way and like doing the same things and it's Jason but it's actually my ex from high school in my dream because that's how much that affected me at such a fragile age where that's what I was believing relationships were right right yeah I mean we see how deeply impacted we can be and and sometimes it's a moment right it doesn't even have to be like you know this this thing that went on for decades you know sometimes it's a moment sometimes it's a month sometimes it's a year, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And I think, you know, when, when trauma happens,

right, like it is, it's stored in a certain way and we keep coming back to it over and over again, you know, and so our work obviously is to process and grieve and heal so that we have a space to restore. You know, for me, I don't know if I shared this on the podcast last time, but, you know, my parents got separated when I was in first grade. They went through a nine-year divorce. I'm an only child. I was a true sort of observer of all things and not having a sibling to download it with was, you know, that to me, that's a big part of my story. Like I was just an observer and I was constantly witnessing my parents who were, you know, at that time were were incredibly hostile. And it was, you know, they each presented very differently from one

another, but it was chaotic and it was scary and it was, you know, it did not feel safe and secure as a kid. And so one of the things that I did was I, like, I just put my energy into becoming like really good at all of my extracurriculars, right? So like I just put a lot of time and energy there. My core needs were all met, but I never felt like there was room for me, like any type of chaos or mess for me. So I became really good at everything. And I didn't need anything from either one of them. And that trail came all the way through for decades, right? It was like, I presented it as an adult as a needless woman, right? Talk about boundaries in the beginning of this conversation today. Like, I didn't need anything from anyone. I was totally cool

with anything because I felt like if there was any disruption that I would add, that that would be too much for the system and it would fall apart, right? My way of getting loved and attention and affection and all the things that I needed was to not need anything, was to be this, like, great girl who was well-rounded and, you know, did the things well. And that was it. And so, you know, for me, part of my healing and restoration work has been to be able to access my needs. I don't need to be a needless woman anymore. And she fronted as like this awesome independent woman, right? Like, it's so funny how we're like, I'm so cool, you know, like this is so great. look at me and I'm so independent, but that was a, you know, that was a mask for me of like

not knowing that it was okay and safe for me to actually have a need or say I don't like something or that doesn't work for me and trust that another person wasn't going to either crash and burn themselves and that it was going to cause too much chaos or that a person wouldn't leave. Yeah, that's, that's so interesting. We'll be right back with more Off the Vine Grape Therapy. Now back to Off the Vine Grape Therapy. I'm looking at questions from listeners because they do, everybody seems to love this topic of boundaries and, you know, what you need.

And so many people just have the one reoccurring question that I'm looking at. And everyone just wants to know how to say no. Like, you know, what you just said something about how like, it's okay to, you know, you you know, ask for certain things or say no or do how, I don't know why, but that is an ongoing question in this Facebook group of how to say no. Well, because it's, what am I afraid of having happen if I do? Yes, yes. Right. And that's the thing that, you know, I can't, if we sat here and we practice like, just say no, like our systems are going to shut that down. Cool. I hear that intellectually, right? Just say no. Boundaries are great. It's okay. Do the thing. And we hear all

these things and we read all these quotes and we see all these memes and, you know, it all makes sense to us in our headspace. But when it's embodied, right, in our emotional body, our systems are like, no, no, no, no, no, don't you dare do that because if you do that, then X is what's going to happen, right? X might be, you're going to stop loving me. You're going to leave me. Maybe I'll be abandoned by you. You won't think that I'm amazing, whatever, whatever, whatever. There's so many things that could be in that bucket. And that would be for, you know, the listener to ask themselves, like, what am I afraid of having happened if I say no? What am I afraid of having happened if I set this boundary because if you answer that question honestly it's going to be an arrow that points you and

direct you to exactly where your healing work needs to be yes what because you cannot override that right now right i'm going to try it no you're not you're not going to try it if the risk is too much right if the threat is too big you are not going to override what your emotional body is saying you won't be able to do it right if the risk is not too big right so so an example of that would be that you don't really like the person that much. You ever notice how you're like, I'm really good at setting boundaries with the people I'm not interested in? Yes, absolutely.

Very good at it. But when it comes to family and friends, no. Right. Or like the person you're dating and you really want them to choose you. We're like, we're boundary badasses when we don't care about the people. So that's not your, that's not where we're going off of. We're going off of the ones where it feels like a threat to you. Right? Like where it feels like, who what am I going to lose here? And whatever it is that's there in the

answer is where you need to spend time and understand that part. Where did that come from? What's my origin story about this? Where was the first time that I felt that and experienced that? What's my story? What's my narrative around this? Why am I so afraid of it? How is it attached to my worth? My ability to believe that I am lovable and deserving, right? Like we need to get into that story because otherwise we're not going to be able to override it just by, you know, intellectualizing something. Right. And on that same thing, like one of the questions in here from Jackie is how to stand up for yourself when you do set those boundaries and then they give you a guilt trip. Manipulation. Don't love it. You know, it's, you know, sometimes it's intentional manipulation and other times people don't even realize

what it is that they're doing. Right. So a lot of times we're dealing with asleep people who just responding from their conditioning and programming, right? Maybe it's what they saw, you know, somebody else do, or maybe it's how they know to protect themselves is by guilting another. You know, when we set boundaries, there must be consequences, right? Consequences are the way that we uphold it, right? And so when we set a boundary, but then somebody guilt and then we're like, oh, shoot, okay, okay, okay, you know, then there isn't a consequence that happens there. And so, you know, I know it's hard and it is confronting, but this is the work, right? If someone guilt you, our job is to name that, right? It's to literally, like, when I talked about narrating

things before, right, it's narrating that, right? So, okay, what just happened is I tried to set a boundary with you and what you came back with was trying to guilt me, right? I do not want to interact with that. Now, again, that takes a tremendous amount of courage and bravery. Right. So, like, that's hard because it's going to point the arrow right back to you. But if I say that, this person might leave me. This person might get angry. This person might not love me anymore. This person, whatever, right? And so this is like this loop we can get very stuck in if we do not begin to restore our sense of self, our sense of worthiness, our sense of like trust in knowing that we are good enough and love, like lovable enough in order to live in a way that is

respectful and healthy and expansive. Because other times we will constantly abandon ourselves. We will constantly trade authenticity, right? What it is. that I need to set right now, what it is that I need to keep right now, what it is I need to say right now. We'll trade that in because we are too afraid of losing something. Let's take a quick second. If you guys have heard me talking about my amazing bras, I was definitely talking about third love. I love this brand. You guys, every bra is made with the memory phone cups, no slip, straps, smooth, scratch-free band with a printed label. There is nothing that annoys me more than a scratchy bra. With third love, I never have to worry about that. They're made of memory phone.

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have to worry about. third love knows there's a perfect bra for everyone so right now they're offering my listeners 15% off your first order go to third love.com slash find now to find your perfect fitting bra and get that 15% off your first purchase that's third love dot com slash fine for 15% off today you have a lot of good quotes on your instagram i really love following your account because you always have not even just like quotes but like really things that impact my mindset like when I read them, I'm like, wow, okay, I'm, that's a game changer for me. Like, they're really, really, they're not, you know, like little cheesy quotes here and there. They're really

deep and meaningful. Thank you. Yeah. No, I take, I take a lot of time with the quotes and with the captions, you know, like for me, it's, it's this platform where, like, we were talking about before where people have the constraints to therapy. Like, this is a space where people can come and they can start to challenge and explore their programming and conditioning and thought processes and it's free. Yeah. What is that quote? I always ask you this. And I, And I always forget it about the, about boundaries and the other person. The only people who get upset when you set boundaries are those who benefited from you having none. Oh, that's so good. It's so good.

Oh, you know, it's these conversations there, you know, you might be listening right now and things might be resonating. And you may want to put certain things into practice. And what I'd offer right now is just gentleness and compassion because, you know, you've been doing something a certain way for a really long time. and it doesn't just snap into place and we don't just shift just like that. It's not an overnight thing. This is a practice that we do daily. This is an awakening and awareness that has to happen day in and day out. And some days we might be a little bit better. In other days we might not be so great. I have plenty of terrible days where I am not able to practice a lot of the things that I know. And so I just say that because I ask everybody to just bring some gentleness and compassion to the self when you start to see how much of yourself you trade in for, you know, that connection or to just

be chosen. Sometimes that can feel really overwhelming and upsetting. Like, gosh, like, I can't believe that I keep giving myself away like this. And so gentle, compassionate, loving, but also accountable, responsible, take ownership, right? Because it's never too late to begin to reprogram and rewire. You know, our neuroplasticity is a beautiful thing. And, you know, the ability for us to rewire this stuff and do it differently, but you're not going to be able to just think your way through it. You might have to grieve some stuff. You might have to understand something a little bit better before you can start to put some of these pieces into play. So that's my offering on the, you know, this, this idea of what we're asking people to do right now

because it is very hard work, but it is for all of us and we all have the capacity to do it. Right. That's, I mean, somebody here was Rachel asked, I like this question. She said, if you're working really hard to set boundaries with family, what do you do when your partner isn't ready to do that? For example, it's Christmas time. You're ready to set those healthy boundaries about time with family, but your partner still wants to make everybody happy. How do you set boundaries with family, yours and his if he isn't there yet? Yeah. Then you set your own. You know, it's like what you will not be able to control things outside of you. And so even though you may come off as cold or people may have some things to say, like be implementing boundaries for yourself is where it's at. So if it means that your partner is wanting to be boundaryless with this family, then you might exit at a certain point. Maybe you say like, you know, I've only got three hours in me. And then if you're staying there, maybe you, go for a walk or if you're visiting, maybe you leave a little bit earlier. I know it can come across as rude sometimes, but there's, again, there's that risk of in order to take good care of myself and really honor what is healthy for me, right? Then there are certain things that I'm going to have to do that people might misunderstand. And that's, you know, that's some of our ego work is, you know, allowing other people to misunderstand us and have the perception of us without us needing to

protect that perception. Yes, absolutely. And, I mean, I know you have a session soon, so we won't keep you for too much longer. But I just want to know, you do sessions over like Skype and stuff, right? Well, so, you know, normally I'm in person. Yeah. You know, right now we're recording during coronavirus. And so, you know, I've moved everything to virtual. So, yes, I'm in New York City.

So I, you know, I work with people who are based in the state of New York. And then, you know, I know you mentioned earlier that I do lots of retreats. you know, like a lot of in-person stuff that is obviously on pause right now. But, you know, Connor and I, my husband and I have the, um, a course. I don't know if you've like taken it. Yes, we did. Okay. But we have like a full six week course that I think is longer than the one that you guys did because that was like a seven day. Yeah. thing. So we have this six week course that's honestly like it may actually be good, um, for what we're talking about today. It's a lot about understanding the family we, we grew up in self and relational.

awareness, boundaries is a huge part of the modules and then conflict and sex and intimacy. So that's something that people are doing from home right now. It doesn't matter the relationship status. So we can send that to you and maybe give your listeners a discount code. That would be awesome. I want to do that too. I want to do the six week course. Absolutely. Yeah, we'll send it to you. Okay. Yeah. So like right now people are trying to do things from home. And so this is not a time to just pause and be like, well, I'm going to throw relationships to the wall. Like, this is a really beautiful time to get to know ourselves and prepare ourselves, even if we're single right now, to prepare for, you know, when we start to open ourselves back up to, you know, connecting with others. Yeah. Somebody also asked how you

keep the romance alive when you're together 24-7 right now in this time, like how to not, you know, just get so irritated with each other. You know, when, yes, it's a, it's a great question. And I think what's important is that, you know, and listen, I understand that some people are probably living in studios and so there may not be a ton of space even if it means going into the bathroom honestly to like have that partition um but if you have a little bit of space is like making sure that you do have some alone time and where you don't actually see the person i've seen some people like still getting dressed for dinner and like you know getting a little bit put together and like you know making it a little bit fun to go on a date with a partner um you know like yeah like there's things that

we're not just, I have truly been in sweats this entire time. So I'm not, I'm not living it, but, you know, I think that there are ways that you can have play. Play right now is so important. You know, we're, we can be so serious or so stressed or in survival mode. And so sometimes we just need to dance. Sometimes we just need to play as if we were kids. You know, like there is something really special about that. And so, you know, I think going on dates, finding the things that, can create some of the romance, making sure that you have some autonomy so that when you come back together, there's something interesting to share, something exciting to share. You're excited to see that

person again because it's not like you've been in front of them 24-7, like she said. So, yeah, those are some quick ideas there. Okay, well, great. And like you said, you've got courses online. They can find you. What's your Instagram? Yeah, it's mindful MFT as a marriage family therapy. Okay. Amazing. And then do you have a website or anything else? Yeah, the web. sites, New York Couples Counseling.com. That's where we put, you know, all of the events, all the retreats, you know, hopefully we are in person at some point again soon-ish. So, you know, and also on Instagram, I post all the events. We're doing a lot of virtual stuff right now, too. So, you know, stay tuned. Lots of offerings coming. Yeah, that's so great. That's how I found you and your husband was

I went to one of your, it wasn't a retreat. What was it? No, yeah, you were in the city and you guys came to an event. at the assemblage, like something about, I think it was around the holidays, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was great. I think you were just doing like a Q&A about how to manage the holidays and boundaries and family dynamics and all the stuff.

Yes. Well, I just absolutely love talking to you and hearing all of your thoughts and you're just, it's so fascinating to listen to you and you're so well-spoken. So I really appreciate you taking the time to do the podcast today. And I know that so many people have so much to take away from this. So I really appreciate your time and thanks for being on the pod. Thank you, Keeling. Can't wait to do it again.

Yes, absolutely. Any time, next time it'll be a, we'll do couples. We should do a really good couple sessions. So into that. Absolutely. Okay, we'll have a good rest of your day and we will chat soon. Okay. Bye-bye.

Okay, bye. All right. So Instagram-y time. First of all, people need to follow, obviously, mindful MFT. Another account that I wanted to give a shout out to is at the good quote, which I think is very fitting for today's episode. They are advocating for mental health and self-development and their feed is filled with amazing quotes that make you stop, take a breath during your day, which I think is very important. And some of the quotes from their feed lately that I really love include

nobody is entitled to your time. Don't feel guilty for taking time out to better yourself. And more communicating to express a point and less communicating to prove one. Very good stuff. All right. I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now ending. Thanks for listening to Off the Vine, Grape Therapy. Tune in to hear new minisodes every Thursday and check out new full-length episodes every Tuesday

exclusively on Podcast 1.com, the Podcast One app, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts. Who's not with OTV?